WEBVTT

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Hello and welcome to this week's episode of Family

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Tree Talk, our lovely family history podcast.

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My name's Helen Tovey, I'm editor of Family Tree

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and with me as usual is... Nathan Ward, hello

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there. Hi Nathan. Hiya, how are you doing? I'm

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doing really well actually, yeah, how are you?

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I'm good, thank you. Full of the busy. Mm -hmm,

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we are. We've put a beautiful new edition of

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our beginner workbook to print, haven't we? Just

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very recently. So that'll be out soon. Yes. It's

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called a beginner workbook, but it's actually

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suitable for anybody. If you've been doing family

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history for 10 or 20 years, you're going to read

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through it and go, yes, I haven't been doing

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that. Maybe I should. Or just little ideas, little

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handy hints and hacks all the way through. Yeah,

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things to remember. To make your life easier.

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We used to find information, which is the eternal

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quest, isn't it? Yes. And ways to not forget

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what you're doing as well. Oh, yes. Yeah. Lots

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of those. So we're doing that. And then we've

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been working on our lovely new website, which

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we've still got lots more to do on, but it's

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still in a fantastic shape already and well worth

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people exploring. Definitely. I know how long

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Nathan's to -do list for the new website is literally

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as long as his leg, isn't it? It keeps coming.

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I mean, it's great what we've done though, isn't

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it? It's such a lovely site and obviously you

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can navigate it really easily and find all these

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really useful articles that we keep talking about.

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So it's definitely been worthwhile. Do you know

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what? Instead of using trendy words like navigate,

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can you just imagine I've never been on the website

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before and it doesn't matter what level you are.

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Let's say I am somebody and I've been doing family

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history for about... a year and what would you

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tell me to do when i work so how do i find what

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i want and what's going to be useful to me and

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i guess the easiest way is on the very top of

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the website there are a few buttons that say

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getting started next steps digging deeper so

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that's related to where you think you are within

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your research level so click on one of those

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and that'll take you to a hub that will then

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get you started and show you like beginner articles

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or intermediate articles or advanced articles.

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So that's a natural place to come if you're just

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looking for somewhere to start. Or at the other

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end of the top of the navigation bar. Am I allowed

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to say navigation bar? Anyway, at the other end

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of the top of the website, there is a button

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that says content hub. Does it say content hub?

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Content library. Content library. Because we

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love the word library because it's just nice.

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It's just tied into genealogy. And it really

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is like a library. So click on that and literally

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you've got access to all the articles. Obviously,

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it depends on your level of membership. If you

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come in to it fresh without logging in, you'll

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get a few articles. If you register for our e

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-newsletter, you'll get even more articles. And

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then if you want the whole shebang, all the videos,

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everything, you sign up for Family Tree Plus

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and you can get access to every single thing

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that's on that website. So it's a wealth of information.

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It's really cool. And with the e -newsletter,

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just to... Totally clarify, it's completely and

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utterly free as well. So you can achieve an awful

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lot on the website without parting with a penny.

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Just pop in your email address and then also

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we will email you roughly once a week with other

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handy hints and pointers to the website to find

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new things or whatever. Yeah, we're not going

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to spam you with rubbish, are we? It's actually

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a really useful email. Absolutely not. No rubbish.

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Not rubbish. We want to help you. Yes, yes. We

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don't want to waste people's time. They've got

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too much family history to do to be having their

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time wasted. Oh, you're not kidding. Yeah. So

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how about, so have you had any kind of cool or

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interesting emails or I've got a bit more podcast.

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I have had one email. I don't usually get the

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emails that usually come to you. But then we've

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had an email from Judy who has started working

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her way through our podcast. She's a beginner

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and she loves listening. And she says it's easy

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to learn with fun banter and a simple approach.

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So I'm glad people are enjoying it. But she has

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asked. If there's an example of my spreadsheet

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anywhere, which currently there isn't. So my

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spreadsheet is basically a list of generations

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and then it's like the facts. So it's who they

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are, who they married, when they married, when

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they died, when they were born. It's just, you

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know, columns. It's very basic, very easy to

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use. We haven't put it anywhere, but we have

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set up our new podcast page on the website. So

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we'll put a link to it there. I'll create a blankish

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version with just the template headers on there.

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And if anybody wants to use it, they can. It

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is very basic, but it has helped me sort of keep

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my mind organised and get those facts straight.

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Definitely. I think that I really like your approach

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because it's when you start doing your family

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history or even at any stage when you're kind

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of building out a branch, you're gathering names

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and dates quite quickly and it's easy to get

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in the muddle and to... you not not know who

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you do and don't have the details for whereas

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your excel sheet is brilliant for that because

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you can see at a glance right i haven't got their

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birth date or death date or whatever it is and

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so it kind of really helps you focus your time

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and energy on finding those crucial building

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block bits of information because although we

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say family history isn't names and dates until

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you've got those names and dates for the kind

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of skeleton tree in place it is hard to build

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it out because you haven't got anything to build

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on have you yeah exactly and that's exactly what

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that spreadsheet was for it was What information

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do I have? Great. I've recorded it somewhere

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so I can see that I've recorded it. But more

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importantly, what don't I have? So then if I

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had a spare 10 minutes, I could be like, right,

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no death there. That's what I'm going to go research.

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To be fair, I use it less now, but actually thinking

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about it, it's more organized than like going

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to my ancestry tree, which looks pretty, but

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you don't always know every single detail without

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clicking into every single entry. And that then

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becomes a task in itself. So maybe I should go

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back to it a bit more. Or just use it occasionally

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when you're on a bit of a, you know, a bit of

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a task that you've got in hand and you need to

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focus on. That'd be good. Yeah. So we've, anyway,

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we mentioned it, I think last week or the week

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before, that we're going to set up this podcast

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page. So if you go to our lovely website, which

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is family -tree .co .uk, go to the content library,

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search on the word podcast, and then you'll find

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our little podcast item and we'll have a tiny

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little summary of what our podcast is about.

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It's where we're going to put rather grandly

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our show notes. We've heard other people call

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them show notes. So we kind of want to be impressive

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like that. So it's going to be useful things.

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So big long links that in the past I would try

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and read out. I won't do that anymore. We'll

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just pop them there. And so people can click

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on the links to go wherever we thought is useful.

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We'll give the example of Nathan's Excel sheet.

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And as any other useful things come to pass over

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the weeks and months, years and decades to come,

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we just add them there. Yeah, definitely. And

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equally, if we start prattling on about a picture,

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we might put them on so you can actually go and

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have a look, sharing what we're talking about.

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That'll be really fun because Nathan has this

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fantastic trunk of family history goodies, which

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his mum and his ancestors have gathered. And

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it'd be great to kind of get some visuals. It

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would. It just lets people know what we're talking

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about a bit more, doesn't it? That'd be nice.

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So yeah, this page is going to end up being a

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real mess of stuff. It's going to be a splurge

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of our brains just on the internet. We'll make

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it as organised as possible. Yeah, of course

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we will. If I'm the historian, everything's organised.

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Yes, yes. So we mentioned Marilyn from the Blue

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Mountains a few weeks ago and we'd helped her

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a little bit and then she had quite a long email

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and so I thought, well, I'm going to have to

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go and help her off the podcast because, you

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know, some things just don't translate well into

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a conversation. There's too much detail and all

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of our... brains would just get totally boggled.

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Anyway, so I tried lending her a helping hand

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and as it turned out, Marilyn had actually done

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really, really thorough research and she'd actually

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come up with the answer that she needed to do

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or a really good answer to her problem herself.

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So, and the reason I'm mentioning Marilyn again,

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because I think it's a predicament which might

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be of interest to you, me, all of us to think

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about. So, Marilyn had an ancestral couple who

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were getting married in the 1930s and then she

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wanted to find out which children they'd had

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over the years. And they were born, they were

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marrying in Lancashire. And then it's like, so

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where did she go next? And she looked in all

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the usual places, Free BMD, the GRO and 1939

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Register, all of those places that you might

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hope to find people's future families and their

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children and things. Not found anyone. And then

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she's found their death dates and she's now at

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the point of ordering a will. For me, I think

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once you've looked in all the normal places you

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could possibly think of, then the will is a really

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good place to potentially see, have they got

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any kids? Have they got any beneficiaries? That's

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Marilyn's predicament, but this is where I think

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it is relevant to all of us, is when we're looking

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for things and we find people and we find information,

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that's great because we can put it on our to

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-do list, we can put it on our research log and

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put it on things like that. But it's when we

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don't find things, trying to keep a record of...

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those things which didn't happen. So she searched

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for the couple's children and they evidently

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or seemingly didn't have any children. It's like,

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how can they be absolutely sure that they didn't

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have any children? Or did the husband's job cause

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him to work overseas for years? And so the whole

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family were living overseas and the children

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were being born overseas. What other kind of

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things might have caused the children not to

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be found in the records where you're looking?

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So that idea of what I'm trying to kind of open

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up is... The idea of when you don't find something,

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how do you make sure that it definitely didn't

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happen or definitely wasn't there or the person

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definitely wasn't in the record for whatever

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reason? And how do you record it that they weren't

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there? Because when they have seven children,

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you go, they have seven children. Whereas when

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they don't have children or don't get married,

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then it's recording something which doesn't necessarily

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have a record. Yeah, this is actually ringing

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very true for me at the moment. I'll go into

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it later, but it is a hard thing, isn't it? It's

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like potential facts that you know should be

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there. If you look at your tree at a glance,

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they're not there, so you don't think that they're

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missing. But as soon as you know the potential

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they're missing, it's like, right, okay. It's

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an interesting one. It is an interesting one,

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and it's one of the... I remember when... When

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I first started doing family history, there was

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this lovely woman called Christine Morris and

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she helped me. She said, she kept urging me,

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you've got to write down even your negative searches.

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And she went on and on about this. She's kind

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of a tiny subset of this idea of the things you

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don't find because otherwise you keep repeating

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it, don't you? Yeah. And I was like, oh, whatever,

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Christine. And then I wish I'd paid more attention

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to that because she's absolutely right. Yeah,

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definitely. You need to be aware of the negative

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space, don't you? Like it does help you. focus

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on the quote -unquote positive space. I used

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to do this thing when I did foundation art at

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college, and sometimes we'd have to draw objects,

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but a lot of the time the tutors would be like,

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don't draw the objects, draw the negative space.

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And it's kind of that thing where you're focusing

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on the areas that don't exist as opposed to the

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shape that is there, and then when you focus

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on the negative space, you accidentally draw

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the positive space. And that idea is it's cool.

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It is. And sometimes, yes, it's the fault of

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the records, isn't it? And sometimes it's just

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because a life event didn't happen. There's so

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many variabilities. It's all of us trying to

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keep a kind of organized, having a kind of a

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bit of a tactic, having a bit of a think and

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a reflect before we just go headlong into our

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research or at the end of a research lesson,

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having a bit of a think and a bit of a reflect.

00:11:38.090 --> 00:11:40.309
Yeah. And also helping yourself out in time as

00:11:40.309 --> 00:11:43.049
well. Knowing which records you've been to and

00:11:43.049 --> 00:11:44.909
which you haven't been to and keeping a record

00:11:44.909 --> 00:11:46.429
of that. So you're not just going around in circles

00:11:46.429 --> 00:11:55.690
doing the same thing again and again. So how

00:11:55.690 --> 00:11:57.789
about you? Tell us about your thing then, Nathan,

00:11:57.870 --> 00:12:00.049
when you were just mentioning that. OK, well,

00:12:00.129 --> 00:12:03.669
I'll tell you about the whole shebang. So last

00:12:03.669 --> 00:12:07.559
week we were talking about. Calvary and like

00:12:07.559 --> 00:12:11.519
do my local area study etc and I got very excited

00:12:11.519 --> 00:12:15.879
about it and I wanted to start doing a bit of

00:12:15.879 --> 00:12:18.600
research on ghosts and historical figures around

00:12:18.600 --> 00:12:21.320
Calvary and I love that idea did I do it no I

00:12:21.320 --> 00:12:26.179
didn't so I am what prompted this I put one picture

00:12:26.179 --> 00:12:29.340
on the web on my family tree of Horatio Nelson's

00:12:29.340 --> 00:12:32.279
wife and obviously I was very excited about it

00:12:32.279 --> 00:12:36.500
I thought it was brilliant and For whatever reason,

00:12:36.580 --> 00:12:39.620
this week I saw my mum and she's got a bunch

00:12:39.620 --> 00:12:42.720
of pictures out, like old, old pictures. So I

00:12:42.720 --> 00:12:45.200
was like, who are they? And she started telling

00:12:45.200 --> 00:12:47.360
me and a lot of them were on my tree. I was like,

00:12:47.399 --> 00:12:50.360
right, OK, this is the perfect opportunity. I'm

00:12:50.360 --> 00:12:53.299
going to get them on my tree. So I sat with her

00:12:53.299 --> 00:12:56.080
and she had this big pile of pictures. And if

00:12:56.080 --> 00:12:58.940
you've got the Ancestry app on your phone, you

00:12:58.940 --> 00:13:03.580
can go into like the profile for a person. Press

00:13:03.580 --> 00:13:06.700
a button and it'll let you upload a picture that

00:13:06.700 --> 00:13:08.679
you can then apply as a profile and it scans

00:13:08.679 --> 00:13:11.519
it and tidies it up for you. It's very easy to

00:13:11.519 --> 00:13:14.759
use. It's really cool. So we start doing that

00:13:14.759 --> 00:13:18.320
and I went through and I've put about, I don't

00:13:18.320 --> 00:13:21.519
know, maybe 20 pictures of people, like all very

00:13:21.519 --> 00:13:23.840
nice old school black and white images on my

00:13:23.840 --> 00:13:25.580
tree. And it's looking really lovely. I'll show

00:13:25.580 --> 00:13:27.519
you it later. Maybe I'll put a screen grab on

00:13:27.519 --> 00:13:32.799
your webpage. Anyway, so one of them. Alexander

00:13:32.799 --> 00:13:36.100
McKay, who is the brother of Phyllis McKay, who

00:13:36.100 --> 00:13:39.139
is the mother of my granddad. I could have said

00:13:39.139 --> 00:13:42.139
that a lot easier, couldn't I? Anyway, I've got

00:13:42.139 --> 00:13:45.120
a picture of him next to an aeroplane with what

00:13:45.120 --> 00:13:47.240
my mum called Auntie Dolly. Oh, that's Auntie

00:13:47.240 --> 00:13:50.860
Dolly. I'm like, I have no recollection who Dolly

00:13:50.860 --> 00:13:53.539
is. She's not on my tree. Did they get married?

00:13:53.600 --> 00:13:55.980
Oh, yeah, yeah, they got married. Right, OK.

00:13:56.259 --> 00:13:58.159
So I went up to my tree and I've got Alexander

00:13:58.159 --> 00:14:02.519
married to Jesse Robinson. who's not Dolly. And

00:14:02.519 --> 00:14:04.379
then my mum started saying, oh, there's rumours

00:14:04.379 --> 00:14:06.159
that he had a child with somebody else, but I

00:14:06.159 --> 00:14:10.240
didn't know he was married. Anyway, my mum is

00:14:10.240 --> 00:14:12.440
very quick to say no to things. So I was like,

00:14:12.460 --> 00:14:13.879
oh, he's been married before. He married this

00:14:13.879 --> 00:14:15.879
Jessie Robertson. No, she didn't. No, he didn't.

00:14:16.019 --> 00:14:18.360
And lots of things that we were talking about,

00:14:18.399 --> 00:14:20.779
family history related, she would just flat out

00:14:20.779 --> 00:14:23.419
say no to. And I'm like, mum, you've got to be

00:14:23.419 --> 00:14:24.759
careful with these no's because you're saying

00:14:24.759 --> 00:14:26.840
these are fact. And I've got like documentation

00:14:26.840 --> 00:14:29.740
that says opposite. So I'm like. Can we just

00:14:29.740 --> 00:14:31.259
be a bit cautious with the use of the word no?

00:14:32.080 --> 00:14:34.960
And it centres off on a conversation about Alexander

00:14:34.960 --> 00:14:38.559
anyway. So he definitely married somebody called

00:14:38.559 --> 00:14:41.379
Dolly or Dorothy, I guess would be probably what

00:14:41.379 --> 00:14:43.639
her name is. And I thought, right, I need to

00:14:43.639 --> 00:14:45.860
solve this now whilst we're in conversation about

00:14:45.860 --> 00:14:49.000
it. And I did a bit of rummaging around. I double

00:14:49.000 --> 00:14:51.820
checked my facts about his marriage to Jessie

00:14:51.820 --> 00:14:55.220
and it's 100 % accurate. Let's say 100%, let's

00:14:55.220 --> 00:14:57.889
say 98 % accurate. Because of the family and

00:14:57.889 --> 00:15:00.129
because I've discussed these guys before, the

00:15:00.129 --> 00:15:03.389
McKays all have amazing middle names. So his

00:15:03.389 --> 00:15:07.850
dad is James Maxwell McKay and he's on the marriage

00:15:07.850 --> 00:15:09.769
certificate. There's not going to be that many

00:15:09.769 --> 00:15:13.169
James Maxwell McKays who match that name, the

00:15:13.169 --> 00:15:16.950
same job, the same time period, etc. So I'm pretty

00:15:16.950 --> 00:15:19.570
confident that the marriage certificate for him

00:15:19.570 --> 00:15:23.929
and Jesse is spot on. So that happened. After

00:15:23.929 --> 00:15:26.509
that, I can't find... any details about jesse

00:15:26.509 --> 00:15:28.750
on any of the censuses because we're talking

00:15:28.750 --> 00:15:34.909
about 1920 well yeah it's the 1921 census is

00:15:34.909 --> 00:15:37.769
the only one i've got because the alexander's

00:15:37.769 --> 00:15:40.970
born in 1907 so i guess i've got the 1911 but

00:15:40.970 --> 00:15:43.830
obviously too young to reference jesse so it's

00:15:43.830 --> 00:15:46.850
really hard finding her and then i need to try

00:15:46.850 --> 00:15:49.590
and find her to find to confirm this birth of

00:15:49.590 --> 00:15:52.129
this child But my mum says nobody really knows

00:15:52.129 --> 00:15:54.970
much details about this child. Apparently, Alexander

00:15:54.970 --> 00:15:59.350
was sent to boarding school down south somewhere

00:15:59.350 --> 00:16:02.950
and had a southern accent, but came back up to

00:16:02.950 --> 00:16:05.730
live here. And apparently, Dorothy also had a

00:16:05.730 --> 00:16:09.389
southern accent. I can't find anything about

00:16:09.389 --> 00:16:12.169
their marriage at all. And that's it, basically.

00:16:12.169 --> 00:16:14.690
I'm just stuck. So I need to find a child. A

00:16:14.690 --> 00:16:18.350
probable death date or divorce date or whatever.

00:16:19.340 --> 00:16:22.360
and then another marriage. And I'm literally

00:16:22.360 --> 00:16:24.639
like, I don't know whether I'm being silly, and

00:16:24.639 --> 00:16:27.159
I've forgotten the basics, but I just cannot

00:16:27.159 --> 00:16:29.419
find these people doing what I'm normally doing.

00:16:29.919 --> 00:16:31.960
Well, I do think you are being silly. I think

00:16:31.960 --> 00:16:34.779
it is a really relatable situation. So you've

00:16:34.779 --> 00:16:38.399
got a bit of a family, a little bit of, not a

00:16:38.399 --> 00:16:41.419
scandal, but a bit of a, you know, a bit of a

00:16:41.419 --> 00:16:43.360
kind of family whisper going on, I guess is the

00:16:43.360 --> 00:16:46.620
best way of saying it, that Alexander has been...

00:16:47.850 --> 00:16:49.610
doing things which aren't necessarily like his

00:16:49.610 --> 00:16:52.149
main event life he's got like a side life as

00:16:52.149 --> 00:16:54.690
well potentially or two strands or lesser known

00:16:54.690 --> 00:16:57.769
strand of his life so I mean you're talking to

00:16:57.769 --> 00:17:00.029
the wrong person Nathan because I am the mistress

00:17:00.029 --> 00:17:02.409
of making up stories of the hoof aren't I but

00:17:02.409 --> 00:17:05.230
I can tell you potentially what I mean this is

00:17:05.230 --> 00:17:09.029
just a potential so that he married Jesse completely

00:17:09.029 --> 00:17:12.109
fine him and Jesse fell out for whatever reason

00:17:12.109 --> 00:17:16.680
they didn't get divorced And so that made it

00:17:16.680 --> 00:17:19.160
not possible for Alexander and Dolly to marry.

00:17:19.279 --> 00:17:21.420
That's why you can't find a marriage for Dolly

00:17:21.420 --> 00:17:23.279
because they wouldn't have wanted to look bigamy

00:17:23.279 --> 00:17:26.259
because that would be more serious than to use

00:17:26.259 --> 00:17:27.880
the language of the day like you're big in sin

00:17:27.880 --> 00:17:31.519
or whatever. Yeah. Okay. That's possible, isn't

00:17:31.519 --> 00:17:34.799
it? It is possible and I'm quite happy to go

00:17:34.799 --> 00:17:36.380
with this, to be honest, because then it means

00:17:36.380 --> 00:17:38.319
that my research skills aren't as bad as I think

00:17:38.319 --> 00:17:42.400
they are. Yes, it could be that. Which country?

00:17:42.579 --> 00:17:45.210
Is this all happening in England? Yeah, it's

00:17:45.210 --> 00:17:50.250
the land living. So on the 1921 census, I've

00:17:50.250 --> 00:17:53.890
got Alexander in a private school. That was quite

00:17:53.890 --> 00:17:55.809
interesting to look at because when it came up,

00:17:55.809 --> 00:17:57.289
I was like, well, what the heck's this? It just

00:17:57.289 --> 00:18:00.089
says pupil, pupil, pupil, pupil. And I don't

00:18:00.089 --> 00:18:01.890
know why he's gone down south to this private

00:18:01.890 --> 00:18:03.650
school either. That's a different story altogether,

00:18:03.930 --> 00:18:07.990
I guess. And what kind of, what were his parents

00:18:07.990 --> 00:18:10.589
up to at that stage in his life? That's a good

00:18:10.589 --> 00:18:13.759
question. Just because it's interesting to consider

00:18:13.759 --> 00:18:15.619
that. Was he sent to a private school because

00:18:15.619 --> 00:18:18.539
his parents had loads of money and that's just

00:18:18.539 --> 00:18:20.759
how they did things? Was he sent to a private

00:18:20.759 --> 00:18:23.880
school because potentially his father had died?

00:18:23.960 --> 00:18:26.740
Because there were benevolent charitable schools

00:18:26.740 --> 00:18:31.200
which were taking, you know, orphans or fatherless

00:18:31.200 --> 00:18:35.000
children of particular lines of work. Yeah. Right.

00:18:35.059 --> 00:18:39.160
Well, looking at the 1921 for his mother, Barry

00:18:39.160 --> 00:18:42.970
J. and Mickey. She is 50 and the head of a house

00:18:42.970 --> 00:18:48.029
and a widow. So her husband's died and his sister

00:18:48.029 --> 00:18:53.369
is living with her and she's 18 years old. So,

00:18:53.549 --> 00:18:57.210
yeah, he's been sent away to a fancy boarding

00:18:57.210 --> 00:18:59.589
school. That would be interesting to learn about

00:18:59.589 --> 00:19:03.019
that boarding school too. It's a bit of a sidetrack

00:19:03.019 --> 00:19:05.619
from what you're trying to find out. But why

00:19:05.619 --> 00:19:08.599
I think it's helpful is because you're learning,

00:19:08.640 --> 00:19:10.720
like, why did he go south? So potentially if

00:19:10.720 --> 00:19:13.319
his mum's a widow, it could be any number of

00:19:13.319 --> 00:19:15.400
reasons. It could be a family friend who's thinking,

00:19:15.420 --> 00:19:19.240
like, this fatherless boy needs to get an education

00:19:19.240 --> 00:19:22.779
and he's too hard for Marianne to look after,

00:19:22.880 --> 00:19:24.720
so I've got the money, I'm going to help him

00:19:24.720 --> 00:19:26.940
out. It could be, as I say, a charitable institution.

00:19:27.950 --> 00:19:30.390
But it just helps to know, like, why is he down

00:19:30.390 --> 00:19:33.009
south? What other ties has he got down there?

00:19:33.069 --> 00:19:34.789
Are there any other family members down there

00:19:34.789 --> 00:19:37.069
to help line up with? How does he potentially

00:19:37.069 --> 00:19:39.670
meet Dolly down south? They've both got Southern

00:19:39.670 --> 00:19:43.750
accents, yeah? Yeah, I mean, that's the sort

00:19:43.750 --> 00:19:45.670
of logic I put to it about them meeting down

00:19:45.670 --> 00:19:49.509
there. Oh, but then he got married to... Oh,

00:19:49.509 --> 00:19:52.910
my gosh. This is just terrifying, actually, when

00:19:52.910 --> 00:19:56.880
I look at it. So he was... A pupil in Surrey,

00:19:56.900 --> 00:20:01.740
is it Colston? In 1921. He got married to Jessie

00:20:01.740 --> 00:20:05.980
in 1928, but he got married in West Yorkshire,

00:20:06.019 --> 00:20:08.180
like in an area, in a part of West Yorkshire

00:20:08.180 --> 00:20:13.000
I know. Oh, boy. But I've got no reason to not

00:20:13.000 --> 00:20:16.259
believe the wedding certificate. It looks so

00:20:16.259 --> 00:20:21.579
accurate. But equally, I guess the big grey area

00:20:21.579 --> 00:20:24.390
here is like how... accurate my mum's information

00:20:24.390 --> 00:20:28.990
is so sticking with trying to orientate him in

00:20:28.990 --> 00:20:32.529
Yorkshire and like what so you've got um a marriage

00:20:32.529 --> 00:20:35.210
date which is potentially you know he's pointing

00:20:35.210 --> 00:20:38.609
to the fact that he married in Yorkshire so it'd

00:20:38.609 --> 00:20:40.730
be interesting to try and work out did he did

00:20:40.730 --> 00:20:43.410
he marry did he meet Jesse somewhere else and

00:20:43.410 --> 00:20:45.210
then just go back to Yorkshire because that's

00:20:45.210 --> 00:20:48.480
his home place or jesse's home place to get married

00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:52.099
or was he anchored there more permanently so

00:20:52.099 --> 00:20:56.779
was he born in 1907 did you say he was yes so

00:20:56.779 --> 00:21:04.339
from 1928 onwards he'll be 18 he'll be 21 so

00:21:04.339 --> 00:21:06.420
he'll be in the electoral registers because you

00:21:06.420 --> 00:21:11.940
had to be 21 to be able to vote yeah okay so

00:21:11.940 --> 00:21:15.680
from It'd be interesting to look, you're not

00:21:15.680 --> 00:21:17.400
going to get him before then, to be able to pinpoint

00:21:17.400 --> 00:21:19.160
him up in Yorkshire before then, because he's

00:21:19.160 --> 00:21:20.720
too young to be in the electoral registers, but

00:21:20.720 --> 00:21:22.700
you'd be able to look from then onwards to go,

00:21:22.740 --> 00:21:24.480
okay, does he stick around here? Because obviously

00:21:24.480 --> 00:21:25.859
you're not going to have any census records.

00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:28.619
So you can try and trace him in the electoral

00:21:28.619 --> 00:21:31.759
registers. Right. And Find My Past has a brilliant

00:21:31.759 --> 00:21:34.460
collection of electoral registers. Okay. You

00:21:34.460 --> 00:21:37.940
can look elsewhere, but with any collection,

00:21:38.039 --> 00:21:39.900
you're trying to get a really comprehensive...

00:21:40.349 --> 00:21:42.690
set aren't you with really good date spans and

00:21:42.690 --> 00:21:45.230
as few gaps as possible because that's going

00:21:45.230 --> 00:21:48.569
to give you the most most data points it's going

00:21:48.569 --> 00:21:50.970
to give you the most you bits of information

00:21:50.970 --> 00:21:54.670
isn't it definitely this is cool it's like it's

00:21:54.670 --> 00:21:57.430
an annoyance this but equally and it is it's

00:21:57.430 --> 00:22:00.750
a side shoot it's kind of the interest that i

00:22:00.750 --> 00:22:03.529
actually wanted i wanted a little mystery to

00:22:03.529 --> 00:22:06.269
draw me in and now i've got it and you've done

00:22:06.269 --> 00:22:08.849
all the usuals to look for jesse and alexander's

00:22:09.339 --> 00:22:13.279
potential child I've done the basics but I didn't

00:22:13.279 --> 00:22:15.799
have a date range and that actually really stumped

00:22:15.799 --> 00:22:18.180
me I was like the date range is so expansive

00:22:18.180 --> 00:22:20.319
at the moment because I don't have any full stops

00:22:20.319 --> 00:22:23.720
anywhere I didn't know how easy it would be to

00:22:23.720 --> 00:22:26.519
find I literally think I've forgotten everything

00:22:26.519 --> 00:22:30.859
so everything so Because we do actually have

00:22:30.859 --> 00:22:32.640
podcast listeners from all different levels.

00:22:32.680 --> 00:22:34.779
Sometimes they write in giving us tips and good

00:22:34.779 --> 00:22:36.240
advice and keeping us on the narrow because they've

00:22:36.240 --> 00:22:39.000
got a wealth of experience. And sometimes they're

00:22:39.000 --> 00:22:41.160
newer on the family history journey. So welcome

00:22:41.160 --> 00:22:43.000
everybody, whatever level you're at. So Nathan,

00:22:43.059 --> 00:22:45.440
when we say do all the basics for looking for

00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:49.299
a child born to a couple, what are those basics?

00:22:49.539 --> 00:22:51.359
What would you do to try and look for a baby?

00:22:51.579 --> 00:22:52.880
You've got their marriage certificate, you've

00:22:52.880 --> 00:22:54.420
got the couple's marriage certificate. How do

00:22:54.420 --> 00:22:57.319
you go and look for those babies? I think I've

00:22:57.319 --> 00:23:00.039
just, my brain stopped working. But, well, obviously

00:23:00.039 --> 00:23:02.380
you look for their names and see if there are

00:23:02.380 --> 00:23:05.640
any in the, well, this is laziness now, but in

00:23:05.640 --> 00:23:07.940
hints and ancestry, it normally comes up, doesn't

00:23:07.940 --> 00:23:10.740
it, with christening or birth records relating

00:23:10.740 --> 00:23:14.059
to the names of the parents. So that's usually

00:23:14.059 --> 00:23:16.799
the first easy stop to go to finding these things.

00:23:17.480 --> 00:23:20.319
Clearly that's not happened for me here. And

00:23:20.319 --> 00:23:24.279
after that, you've got the website FreeBMD. which

00:23:24.279 --> 00:23:26.920
lets you search for births, marriages and deaths,

00:23:27.099 --> 00:23:29.559
obviously. This is where I'm stumped, though,

00:23:29.599 --> 00:23:31.519
because naturally I'm like, right, OK, I'm going

00:23:31.519 --> 00:23:34.220
to go to Free BMD and I'm going to find a birth.

00:23:34.440 --> 00:23:37.160
But it's that date range that just flummoxed

00:23:37.160 --> 00:23:41.319
me. Can I get a decent search going on Free BMD

00:23:41.319 --> 00:23:44.420
without a date? Well, I think you have got some

00:23:44.420 --> 00:23:47.220
dates, though, haven't you? Yeah? I guess so.

00:23:47.339 --> 00:23:49.319
Because you've got the marriage date, which is

00:23:49.319 --> 00:23:55.960
1928? Yes. Yeah. And so, you know, potentially

00:23:55.960 --> 00:23:57.880
they could have had a baby before then. And you've

00:23:57.880 --> 00:24:01.900
got his age. He's going to be seven in, no, he's

00:24:01.900 --> 00:24:05.440
born in 1907, which means that in 1928, he's

00:24:05.440 --> 00:24:11.059
21. So you could search for, from 1925 onwards,

00:24:11.180 --> 00:24:13.140
so he's 18. I mean, he's unlikely to have any

00:24:13.140 --> 00:24:15.819
children before then. So you could search from

00:24:15.819 --> 00:24:18.119
1925 and then you could say, right, we know they're

00:24:18.119 --> 00:24:21.059
marrying in 1928. And unless he has an occupation,

00:24:21.119 --> 00:24:23.819
which is taking him. far away like he's got he's

00:24:23.819 --> 00:24:26.259
a sailor and he's working at sea or in the arm

00:24:26.259 --> 00:24:27.460
and he's gone to the other side of the world

00:24:27.460 --> 00:24:29.220
because there's a war on for years and years

00:24:29.220 --> 00:24:33.220
if he's around it's unlikely for them not to

00:24:33.220 --> 00:24:35.119
have children within a few years so if you searched

00:24:35.119 --> 00:24:39.660
for five years after 1928 so go up to 1933 so

00:24:39.660 --> 00:24:40.940
suddenly you've only given yourself an eight

00:24:40.940 --> 00:24:43.539
-year window then so it's not it's not you've

00:24:43.539 --> 00:24:45.140
you've narrowed it down rather than saying i

00:24:45.140 --> 00:24:47.059
haven't got any clues it's unlikely that they

00:24:47.059 --> 00:24:48.980
would be married living together and not have

00:24:48.980 --> 00:24:52.559
a baby in five years i obviously fertility issues

00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:54.880
aside, it's unlikely they don't have a child.

00:24:55.039 --> 00:24:58.539
Yeah? Yeah. Particularly in the era of poor to

00:24:58.539 --> 00:25:02.740
no contraception. Yeah? Sure. But if I go onto

00:25:02.740 --> 00:25:05.519
3VMD to do the search, I literally have forgotten

00:25:05.519 --> 00:25:08.160
everything. If I go onto 3VMD to do the search,

00:25:08.240 --> 00:25:09.740
I have to click on, like, birth as the option,

00:25:09.859 --> 00:25:12.359
obviously. But then you've got surname and first

00:25:12.359 --> 00:25:16.180
name. I guess I know the surname is going to

00:25:16.180 --> 00:25:19.940
be McKay. I don't know the first name. I know

00:25:19.940 --> 00:25:24.400
the mother's... maiden name yes yes and that's

00:25:24.400 --> 00:25:26.380
that's absolutely crucial because if you're just

00:25:26.380 --> 00:25:30.500
searching on a surname then that's a ridiculous

00:25:30.500 --> 00:25:33.220
search to do like for even the rarest of surnames

00:25:33.220 --> 00:25:35.420
you're not you're not going to know without ordering

00:25:35.420 --> 00:25:37.359
a million and one certificates whether any of

00:25:37.359 --> 00:25:39.839
those are correct but if you're searching on

00:25:39.839 --> 00:25:42.599
the um Assuming the baby has the father's surname,

00:25:42.920 --> 00:25:44.579
you're searching on the mother's maiden name.

00:25:44.680 --> 00:25:46.200
I think it's from, I should know this off the

00:25:46.200 --> 00:25:47.559
top of my head and I always forget it. Like when

00:25:47.559 --> 00:25:49.660
I go to 3BMD, I'll put in the mother's maiden

00:25:49.660 --> 00:25:51.440
name and then it'll go, no, you can't do that.

00:25:51.500 --> 00:25:53.059
I think before 1911, but it doesn't matter because

00:25:53.059 --> 00:25:55.420
we're after 1911. And apologies if I got that

00:25:55.420 --> 00:25:57.579
slight detail wrong. But anyway, you're in the

00:25:57.579 --> 00:25:59.140
window where you can put in the mother's maiden

00:25:59.140 --> 00:26:01.900
name. I'm 99 % sure. So put in the mother's maiden

00:26:01.900 --> 00:26:03.259
name. So suddenly, rather than looking for one

00:26:03.259 --> 00:26:04.619
piece of information, you've suddenly narrowed

00:26:04.619 --> 00:26:06.400
it down a lot. So the only search results which

00:26:06.400 --> 00:26:08.180
are going to come back are going to be for those.

00:26:08.589 --> 00:26:10.890
A baby with those two surnames in the search

00:26:10.890 --> 00:26:13.210
results, yeah? You've narrowed down the window.

00:26:13.289 --> 00:26:14.529
Rather than going, I don't know any dates, you've

00:26:14.529 --> 00:26:17.430
got an eight -year window. And then you could

00:26:17.430 --> 00:26:20.109
see how many results have you got at that point.

00:26:20.289 --> 00:26:22.789
And if you've got a world of results, then I

00:26:22.789 --> 00:26:26.490
would stop and think, right, I'm going to geographically

00:26:26.490 --> 00:26:29.009
limit this a little bit. I'm going to start putting

00:26:29.009 --> 00:26:31.250
it in for the registration district, which is

00:26:31.250 --> 00:26:33.930
covering where the family are living in Yorkshire.

00:26:34.049 --> 00:26:36.210
I might be having a look around in the whole

00:26:36.210 --> 00:26:39.559
county of Surrey. or if it's near a border, county

00:26:39.559 --> 00:26:41.180
border in Surrey, looking in the neighbouring

00:26:41.180 --> 00:26:42.980
counties, I'd start to control the geography

00:26:42.980 --> 00:26:45.200
of where I'm looking. Yeah, because it's unlikely

00:26:45.200 --> 00:26:47.359
you're going to be in Dorset. I'm not saying

00:26:47.359 --> 00:26:49.579
they couldn't be, but it's, you know, you've

00:26:49.579 --> 00:26:51.480
got some geographical areas that you know they're

00:26:51.480 --> 00:26:54.940
associated with. Okay. So, but I wouldn't put

00:26:54.940 --> 00:26:56.759
in the geographical areas first. I'd just literally

00:26:56.759 --> 00:26:59.740
do those surnames, that date parameter. What

00:26:59.740 --> 00:27:02.059
have we got? Is it like 10 or 20 results? That's

00:27:02.059 --> 00:27:05.359
manageable, isn't it? It is. Whilst we've been

00:27:05.359 --> 00:27:06.940
talking, obviously, I've snuck off and done this.

00:27:07.319 --> 00:27:11.359
And I have got, I've done a massive date range.

00:27:11.460 --> 00:27:16.240
I've done 1921 to 1940. And I've only got six

00:27:16.240 --> 00:27:19.980
results coming back. Ideal. So now you've got

00:27:19.980 --> 00:27:22.039
your six results and you're just going to scan

00:27:22.039 --> 00:27:23.799
your eye down them. And there might be funny

00:27:23.799 --> 00:27:26.299
little clues. Like one of those might be a baby

00:27:26.299 --> 00:27:28.960
called Alexander. And you're like, well, of course

00:27:28.960 --> 00:27:31.220
it's good. Or if you know Alexander's father's

00:27:31.220 --> 00:27:33.119
name. Because obviously they've got that Mackay

00:27:33.119 --> 00:27:35.160
surname, so they're potentially still honouring

00:27:35.160 --> 00:27:37.039
those Scottish naming traditions where you'd

00:27:37.039 --> 00:27:40.279
name your first son after the dad's dad, the

00:27:40.279 --> 00:27:42.480
first daughter after the mum's mum. So if you

00:27:42.480 --> 00:27:44.900
have those other family clues, you think, well,

00:27:45.019 --> 00:27:48.500
you don't know that that baby, whatever Alexander's

00:27:48.500 --> 00:27:51.059
dad's called, you don't know that that's definitely

00:27:51.059 --> 00:27:52.859
your baby. But if you have clues which would

00:27:52.859 --> 00:27:55.420
make you warmer or colder, looking at the registration

00:27:55.420 --> 00:27:59.390
districts, this could be a hard one. A registration

00:27:59.390 --> 00:28:01.869
district isn't necessarily obvious. You might

00:28:01.869 --> 00:28:04.390
know the village that your ancestor comes from,

00:28:04.410 --> 00:28:05.589
but you might not know what the registration

00:28:05.589 --> 00:28:07.589
district is. So when you look at the registration

00:28:07.589 --> 00:28:09.410
districts, if they mean nothing to you, have

00:28:09.410 --> 00:28:12.170
a quick Google, or because you're looking in

00:28:12.170 --> 00:28:16.049
England and Wales, you could go on the FamilySearch

00:28:16.049 --> 00:28:19.569
1851 map site, and that gives you lots of administrative

00:28:19.569 --> 00:28:22.710
areas, which sounds boring, but it's so useful

00:28:22.710 --> 00:28:25.250
because you'll be able to look at the names of

00:28:25.250 --> 00:28:28.839
registration districts. put it in whatever the

00:28:28.839 --> 00:28:30.839
registration district is then you see it on the

00:28:30.839 --> 00:28:33.799
map you go oh that covers their area in wherever

00:28:33.799 --> 00:28:36.759
it is west yorkshire ideal okay you know it's

00:28:36.759 --> 00:28:38.180
like warmer you're playing a game of warmer and

00:28:38.180 --> 00:28:43.099
colder at this stage yeah this is tricky like

00:28:43.099 --> 00:28:46.339
knowing what i now know and looking at these

00:28:46.339 --> 00:28:50.700
results of the six entries four of them have

00:28:50.700 --> 00:28:53.400
middlesbrough as the registration district but

00:28:54.079 --> 00:28:56.660
Each Middlesbrough reference is two years apart,

00:28:56.779 --> 00:28:59.299
which suggests that potentially that could be

00:28:59.299 --> 00:29:01.339
the same family having child after child after

00:29:01.339 --> 00:29:05.779
child. But that range is happening in like 1923,

00:29:05.980 --> 00:29:08.359
at which point he should still be at boarding

00:29:08.359 --> 00:29:12.119
school. So it makes me think that none of these

00:29:12.119 --> 00:29:14.259
are right. What about the other two? You said

00:29:14.259 --> 00:29:15.940
there were six results. So what about the two

00:29:15.940 --> 00:29:18.180
other results which aren't Middlesbrough? But

00:29:18.180 --> 00:29:20.599
both of those ones have got the surname McKay,

00:29:20.700 --> 00:29:23.319
but it's spelt wrong. And I know I can't take

00:29:23.319 --> 00:29:26.460
that as gospel, but that puts me off. One's in

00:29:26.460 --> 00:29:31.700
1923 in Rochford, and then one's in 1940, which

00:29:31.700 --> 00:29:36.599
must be wrong, in Woolwich. So from that list,

00:29:36.720 --> 00:29:40.640
my feeling would be that none of those are for

00:29:40.640 --> 00:29:43.640
your Alexander McKay and Jessie, because as you

00:29:43.640 --> 00:29:46.359
say, one's just way too early, one's way too

00:29:46.359 --> 00:29:49.789
late. And those four seem to be their own separate

00:29:49.789 --> 00:29:52.410
family unit. Or you could also do, while you're

00:29:52.410 --> 00:29:54.549
in 3MD, just to kind of definitely rule out those

00:29:54.549 --> 00:29:57.410
four. If the dates of those children look plausible

00:29:57.410 --> 00:29:59.430
for your Alexandra and Jessie, go back to your

00:29:59.430 --> 00:30:02.430
3BMD search, search for marriage, look for a

00:30:02.430 --> 00:30:05.430
marriage. Just specifically look for a marriage

00:30:05.430 --> 00:30:07.950
in Middlesbrough or that sort of rough area.

00:30:08.170 --> 00:30:10.390
Yeah. And for the rough time period. And then

00:30:10.390 --> 00:30:12.470
hopefully what you'd do is you would come up

00:30:12.470 --> 00:30:14.910
with a... McKay, whatever Jesse's surname was,

00:30:14.950 --> 00:30:16.650
marriage in the Middlesbrough area. And you'd

00:30:16.650 --> 00:30:17.869
be like, okay, I can definitely rule out these

00:30:17.869 --> 00:30:21.829
guys. Yeah. They got married in Idle in West

00:30:21.829 --> 00:30:25.569
Yorkshire. Your one did. Yeah. What you're looking

00:30:25.569 --> 00:30:28.490
for is you're looking for a mum and dad for those

00:30:28.490 --> 00:30:31.170
four kids in Middlesbrough. Ah, right. Sorry.

00:30:31.470 --> 00:30:33.750
Yeah. Then you can go, no, this is definitely

00:30:33.750 --> 00:30:36.650
a different family unit. Yeah. Potentially. And

00:30:36.650 --> 00:30:38.250
then you just cross them out of your mind and

00:30:38.250 --> 00:30:40.730
go, I have to potentially think that Alexandra

00:30:40.730 --> 00:30:43.279
and Jesse didn't have any children. Then you

00:30:43.279 --> 00:30:45.420
go back to my massive surmines. Did they fall

00:30:45.420 --> 00:30:47.519
out and separate quite early on in their relationship?

00:30:48.500 --> 00:30:50.599
It's all to play for suddenly again, isn't it?

00:30:50.619 --> 00:30:52.880
You're like, OK, we can't find a child. Jesse

00:30:52.880 --> 00:30:56.299
was that child Alexander had. Was that child

00:30:56.299 --> 00:31:00.019
actually an Alexander Dolly child? Yeah. Wow.

00:31:00.819 --> 00:31:03.119
Maybe he was that Alexander Dolly child and that's

00:31:03.119 --> 00:31:05.619
why Alexander and Jesse fell out and separated.

00:31:06.349 --> 00:31:08.410
it's always it's like real life it's like all

00:31:08.410 --> 00:31:10.809
of us can understand those situations we've all

00:31:10.809 --> 00:31:13.529
been various of the parties in those predicaments

00:31:13.529 --> 00:31:15.930
it's just being part of human isn't it well my

00:31:15.930 --> 00:31:20.089
mom's wording was nobody talked about it and

00:31:20.089 --> 00:31:23.450
nobody met this child so i don't think it would

00:31:23.450 --> 00:31:26.069
have been dolly's child but then it's obviously

00:31:26.069 --> 00:31:28.269
there was a past that hasn't been talked about

00:31:29.550 --> 00:31:31.950
So way back when, when we started this podcast,

00:31:32.230 --> 00:31:34.130
the reason we started it is because Nathan did

00:31:34.130 --> 00:31:35.930
a DNA test and he thought it would be fun to

00:31:35.930 --> 00:31:37.609
do a podcast and he thought it would be fun to

00:31:37.609 --> 00:31:39.250
potentially, you weren't really fussed about

00:31:39.250 --> 00:31:41.349
family history, you ought to do a DNA test and

00:31:41.349 --> 00:31:44.109
see whatever your DNA test could tell you. Anyway,

00:31:44.210 --> 00:31:46.450
then he's accidentally got addicted to family

00:31:46.450 --> 00:31:48.589
history in the meantime, hasn't looked at his

00:31:48.589 --> 00:31:50.230
DNA results, which I know are part of family

00:31:50.230 --> 00:31:51.849
history, but they're just like part of it. Sorry

00:31:51.849 --> 00:31:53.410
to offend anyone who loves DNA, but they are

00:31:53.410 --> 00:31:56.299
just part of family history. And so I wonder

00:31:56.299 --> 00:31:58.480
if you go back to your DNA results at some point.

00:31:59.019 --> 00:32:01.500
So let's say, so what is Alexander to you? So

00:32:01.500 --> 00:32:03.539
what I'm trying to get at is there could be a

00:32:03.539 --> 00:32:05.500
descendant of this Alexander, mystery Alexander

00:32:05.500 --> 00:32:09.180
baby, who could potentially turn up in your DNA

00:32:09.180 --> 00:32:12.180
results. Oh, yeah. I might finally have a use

00:32:12.180 --> 00:32:15.279
for my DNA. Yeah. Apart from like upsetting me

00:32:15.279 --> 00:32:17.779
and telling me I'm not a Viking. Yes. What was

00:32:17.779 --> 00:32:19.460
Alexander again? Your two times great grandpa?

00:32:19.759 --> 00:32:23.799
He's my great grand uncle. Okay. Okay. Okay.

00:32:24.550 --> 00:32:27.450
So, oh my God, this makes my head hurt. So he's

00:32:27.450 --> 00:32:31.150
your great -great -uncle. He's my great -great

00:32:31.150 --> 00:32:33.509
-great -grand -uncle. He's not my great -great

00:32:33.509 --> 00:32:36.210
-great. He's my great -grand -uncle, yeah. Yes,

00:32:36.210 --> 00:32:37.970
well, I call it great -great. It's the same thing.

00:32:38.349 --> 00:32:40.349
Yeah, I added an extra great just because I was

00:32:40.349 --> 00:32:42.470
singing that song. Anyway. Okay, okay. You know

00:32:42.470 --> 00:32:47.309
me. Yes. So he's the sibling of your great...

00:32:47.309 --> 00:32:52.170
What is he, the sibling? He is the brother...

00:32:52.799 --> 00:32:59.099
Of my great -grandparents. My grandad's mum's

00:32:59.099 --> 00:33:04.519
brother. Okay. Okay. So he's a third cousin to

00:33:04.519 --> 00:33:07.700
you. Do you know how this mystery started? This

00:33:07.700 --> 00:33:09.779
mystery started because I had a picture of Dolly

00:33:09.779 --> 00:33:12.740
and I wanted to add her onto my tree with this

00:33:12.740 --> 00:33:15.339
really nice picture. That's it. But I can't because

00:33:15.339 --> 00:33:18.299
I can't find her. Anyway, carry on. Yes. Yeah,

00:33:18.420 --> 00:33:21.119
so that's me being really silly. If you've got

00:33:21.119 --> 00:33:23.039
a picture of Dolly in the family album, Dolly

00:33:23.039 --> 00:33:26.839
is not a nefarious kind of other woman, is she?

00:33:27.140 --> 00:33:30.839
My mum met her as a child because she had a southern

00:33:30.839 --> 00:33:34.299
accent, as did Alex. So Dolly exists. It's the

00:33:34.299 --> 00:33:35.980
Jessie that was a mystery. That was the bit that

00:33:35.980 --> 00:33:38.160
my mum was like, are we never married? And I

00:33:38.160 --> 00:33:39.700
was like, yeah, but you don't know that. You're

00:33:39.700 --> 00:33:41.099
just saying that because that's what you were

00:33:41.099 --> 00:33:44.059
told or brought to believe. Yet she still knew

00:33:44.059 --> 00:33:48.940
rumours of a child. A mystery is flowering. Okay,

00:33:48.940 --> 00:33:53.400
so I have to say I'm just like stuck. Great.

00:33:54.160 --> 00:33:56.920
Sorry about that. This is where we go, please,

00:33:56.920 --> 00:33:59.720
we just say casually to anybody listening to

00:33:59.720 --> 00:34:02.000
the podcast, we'd be very interested if you have

00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:04.240
anything that you could do to help us. We go,

00:34:04.299 --> 00:34:08.739
please help us. Please help Nathan. Any ideas

00:34:08.739 --> 00:34:11.079
on how we can get around this so that he can

00:34:11.079 --> 00:34:14.050
find out how to add Dolly to his... family tree,

00:34:14.170 --> 00:34:16.730
add the photo of her and add her, obviously,

00:34:16.849 --> 00:34:20.570
then that would be great to know. It's just an

00:34:20.570 --> 00:34:22.789
irritating time period. I love the censuses.

00:34:22.829 --> 00:34:25.650
And as soon as you hit that 1921, you're like,

00:34:25.710 --> 00:34:28.170
there's nothing after this. Shocking. I guess

00:34:28.170 --> 00:34:31.409
I could try and find them on the 1939. I mean,

00:34:31.449 --> 00:34:36.150
Dolly just feels very, you know, it's kind of

00:34:36.150 --> 00:34:38.710
a nickname. You haven't got a surname. We haven't

00:34:38.710 --> 00:34:41.190
really got a particular place for her. I did.

00:34:41.659 --> 00:34:44.019
I can't remember. Oh, this is bad. This is bad

00:34:44.019 --> 00:34:46.219
research now, but I did a bit of digging and

00:34:46.219 --> 00:34:49.260
I came up with two potential surnames for her.

00:34:50.159 --> 00:34:53.000
How did I find these? This is why you should

00:34:53.000 --> 00:34:55.320
write things down in a research log. I've written

00:34:55.320 --> 00:34:57.260
down on this piece of paper without any note

00:34:57.260 --> 00:34:59.619
taking about where I got this information from,

00:34:59.760 --> 00:35:02.460
that she's potentially called Wood, which is

00:35:02.460 --> 00:35:05.039
annoying because she's coming from, well, she's

00:35:05.039 --> 00:35:07.579
joining a family that becomes Wood, or she's

00:35:07.579 --> 00:35:11.070
called Hammond. Now... Potentially, I might believe

00:35:11.070 --> 00:35:13.110
this because I guess the search I'll have done

00:35:13.110 --> 00:35:15.550
will be trying to find a wedding for someone

00:35:15.550 --> 00:35:17.710
called Alexander McKay to somebody called Dorothy.

00:35:18.190 --> 00:35:19.969
And I'm speculating that she's called Dorothy.

00:35:20.429 --> 00:35:22.789
Is Dolly short for anything else? I don't know.

00:35:23.150 --> 00:35:24.789
She could have been just born Dolly, couldn't

00:35:24.789 --> 00:35:27.989
she? I don't know. I just don't know what Dolly's

00:35:27.989 --> 00:35:30.769
short for. Right. Well, I went for Dorothy. Dot.

00:35:30.949 --> 00:35:34.230
And in my head, Dot and Dottie was kind of Dorothy,

00:35:34.389 --> 00:35:37.170
but probably Dolly could be too. Yeah. So I need

00:35:37.170 --> 00:35:39.760
to go and look at that as well. Try Dolly. But

00:35:39.760 --> 00:35:42.000
we've gone for Dorothy. Anyway, so I've got two

00:35:42.000 --> 00:35:43.599
surnames. He must have been searching for the

00:35:43.599 --> 00:35:47.039
marriage and two options came up, but there was

00:35:47.039 --> 00:35:49.480
no actual document tied to them that let me see,

00:35:49.559 --> 00:35:52.099
like, the father's name of James Maxwell McKay,

00:35:52.119 --> 00:35:54.420
which would obviously just instantly be a massive

00:35:54.420 --> 00:35:58.139
tick. So that's all I've got. There's just a

00:35:58.139 --> 00:36:01.139
big, big grey area in this guy's life that I

00:36:01.139 --> 00:36:03.659
can't flesh out. To establish how you did it,

00:36:03.739 --> 00:36:07.300
so were you on...? I was on Ancestry. Yeah. And

00:36:07.300 --> 00:36:10.820
I went to search. And I clicked on birth, marriage

00:36:10.820 --> 00:36:13.679
and death. And then from that, I searched for

00:36:13.679 --> 00:36:18.679
Alexander McKay as the main guy. I then deleted

00:36:18.679 --> 00:36:21.639
the Jesse, because when I put him in, it filters

00:36:21.639 --> 00:36:23.280
in all his information onto the search string.

00:36:23.679 --> 00:36:26.500
And one of them was obviously married to Jesse

00:36:26.500 --> 00:36:29.019
Robinson. So I deleted that and you can press,

00:36:29.059 --> 00:36:31.719
there's a button where you can press like a relation.

00:36:31.820 --> 00:36:35.460
So I pressed spouse and typed in Dorothy, just

00:36:35.460 --> 00:36:38.599
the first name. clicked exact match and did a

00:36:38.599 --> 00:36:40.820
search and it came up with a bunch of options.

00:36:41.260 --> 00:36:43.860
This is exactly what I've done. Obviously, Alexander

00:36:43.860 --> 00:36:46.099
McKay came up and a bunch of marriages came up

00:36:46.099 --> 00:36:49.059
and there were lots of different names, but there

00:36:49.059 --> 00:36:52.440
were two or three that were Dorothy's in the

00:36:52.440 --> 00:36:54.579
kind of rough region of where I want them to

00:36:54.579 --> 00:36:57.679
be. So I probably need to go back to those documents

00:36:57.679 --> 00:37:00.159
with a keener eye. When I started doing this,

00:37:00.199 --> 00:37:03.039
I was literally already at the end of, it sounds

00:37:03.039 --> 00:37:06.489
daft, but scanning in the photographs. and allocating

00:37:06.489 --> 00:37:08.409
them to the people was actually quite tiring

00:37:08.409 --> 00:37:11.389
it was good and easy to do using the app but

00:37:11.389 --> 00:37:15.150
every single person then had a story which was

00:37:15.150 --> 00:37:17.230
fantastic because my mum started telling me information

00:37:17.230 --> 00:37:20.130
that I'd never heard before but I'd literally

00:37:20.130 --> 00:37:22.329
got to overload point at this point and this

00:37:22.329 --> 00:37:24.449
became the mystery and it's like well I need

00:37:24.449 --> 00:37:27.090
to solve this and probably wasn't giving it enough

00:37:27.090 --> 00:37:29.909
attention so I need to maybe go back and look

00:37:29.909 --> 00:37:32.599
at those documents but I just wanted an instant

00:37:32.599 --> 00:37:35.119
concrete James Maxwell McKay was this guy's father.

00:37:35.260 --> 00:37:37.599
Therefore, it's definitely a wedding. It's definitely

00:37:37.599 --> 00:37:41.219
happened. Nothing was shouting at me saying this

00:37:41.219 --> 00:37:44.019
looks promising. And so I do have the mystery

00:37:44.019 --> 00:37:46.219
of what happened with the previous marriage,

00:37:46.360 --> 00:37:50.659
who, what, where this child was and whether he

00:37:50.659 --> 00:37:56.190
married Dolly. It's a good mystery, though. It's

00:37:56.190 --> 00:37:58.329
what I want, isn't it? I said I'm bored of finding

00:37:58.329 --> 00:38:01.670
fact figures and dates, so if I can tie a few

00:38:01.670 --> 00:38:03.650
strings together on this little strand, it'd

00:38:03.650 --> 00:38:06.409
be cool. Mm -hmm. It'd be very, very cool. Nothing

00:38:06.409 --> 00:38:08.110
to do with what I actually said I wanted to do.

00:38:08.210 --> 00:38:11.650
I'm still, like, fascinated by, like, the local

00:38:11.650 --> 00:38:13.829
history idea and the ghost stuff. I think that's

00:38:13.829 --> 00:38:16.469
going to be quite fun for me, personally. Mm

00:38:16.469 --> 00:38:19.489
-hmm. But here I am with Alexander McKay, so

00:38:19.489 --> 00:38:22.980
whatever. That's what happens, isn't it? Every

00:38:22.980 --> 00:38:26.280
week. Well, just to all of us, I think. Well,

00:38:26.320 --> 00:38:29.119
not all of us. Some people manage to be very,

00:38:29.179 --> 00:38:31.820
very, what's the word, have a lot of self -discipline

00:38:31.820 --> 00:38:34.340
and stick with the precise thing they want. But

00:38:34.340 --> 00:38:37.400
in a way, is it really understandable that any

00:38:37.400 --> 00:38:39.639
of us, of our research, that kind of we set a

00:38:39.639 --> 00:38:41.159
plan that we want to do that week and then it

00:38:41.159 --> 00:38:43.699
gets derailed? Because when we're finding out

00:38:43.699 --> 00:38:45.360
things about our ancestors, it is a little bit

00:38:45.360 --> 00:38:48.989
like a conversation. It's rare in life that we

00:38:48.989 --> 00:38:51.289
keep going with one conversation. We do let it

00:38:51.289 --> 00:38:53.289
take its kind of flow, don't we? And so if it

00:38:53.289 --> 00:38:55.389
leads us off down a different path, that's where

00:38:55.389 --> 00:38:59.110
we go. Yeah, and it was actually great going

00:38:59.110 --> 00:39:00.730
through these photographs with my mum because

00:39:00.730 --> 00:39:03.230
it was triggering her brain. Like, obviously,

00:39:03.269 --> 00:39:05.210
I mention all the time that I'm doing my family

00:39:05.210 --> 00:39:07.469
history and a lot of the time she doesn't think

00:39:07.469 --> 00:39:10.139
she's got any knowledge, whereas... when we're

00:39:10.139 --> 00:39:11.719
looking through these photographs just like oh

00:39:11.719 --> 00:39:13.679
that's so -and -so and this is so -and -so and

00:39:13.679 --> 00:39:15.699
they did that then and it's like oh my god all

00:39:15.699 --> 00:39:18.019
this information you haven't given me yet and

00:39:18.019 --> 00:39:19.719
equally because because I don't know the right

00:39:19.719 --> 00:39:22.079
way to ask her either because I don't know what

00:39:22.079 --> 00:39:24.139
the question is sometimes whereas these these

00:39:24.139 --> 00:39:26.840
pictures were triggering like oh that's so -and

00:39:26.840 --> 00:39:28.780
-so and they were related to them and this was

00:39:28.780 --> 00:39:31.340
this wedding and it was really cool so I probably

00:39:31.340 --> 00:39:32.840
actually need to spend a bit more time with my

00:39:32.840 --> 00:39:34.599
mum and some of these photographs and find out

00:39:34.599 --> 00:39:37.280
a few more definitely random facts that she's

00:39:37.280 --> 00:39:38.780
got buried away that she didn't know she's got

00:39:39.159 --> 00:39:40.800
And make sure you write them down when she tells

00:39:40.800 --> 00:39:43.179
you. I know, God, how many times am I going to

00:39:43.179 --> 00:39:45.880
say this? But add them to your tree as a little

00:39:45.880 --> 00:39:48.599
note or whatever you want to do. Yeah. Yeah.

00:39:49.119 --> 00:39:51.460
And I think that's really useful to think because,

00:39:51.619 --> 00:39:55.280
say, your mum not realising all of those wonderful

00:39:55.280 --> 00:39:57.659
nuggets of information she has. All of us, we

00:39:57.659 --> 00:39:59.840
kind of don't appreciate what we do know and

00:39:59.840 --> 00:40:03.710
we forget that it's not. like my children there's

00:40:03.710 --> 00:40:05.230
loads of things I know that my children don't

00:40:05.230 --> 00:40:07.449
know just because but in fact I live through

00:40:07.449 --> 00:40:09.650
those events so I remember those people personally

00:40:09.650 --> 00:40:12.329
and they're so familiar to me I kind of feel

00:40:12.329 --> 00:40:14.510
they don't need explaining but they do exactly

00:40:14.510 --> 00:40:17.289
yeah they're a mystery yeah they're part of your

00:40:17.289 --> 00:40:18.989
fabric they're not actually a story that you

00:40:18.989 --> 00:40:21.309
need to press down but actually that's exactly

00:40:21.309 --> 00:40:24.849
what they are exactly yeah we're looking now

00:40:24.849 --> 00:40:26.670
this is Nathan we're going to have to put this

00:40:26.670 --> 00:40:30.219
in the show notes Nathan showed me a little part

00:40:30.219 --> 00:40:33.000
of his tree and he's got so many photos on there

00:40:33.000 --> 00:40:37.659
it just looks wonderful so we've got like 1940s

00:40:37.659 --> 00:40:41.039
pictures with people with their lovely organized

00:40:41.039 --> 00:40:44.400
hair and their smart clothes and then we go into

00:40:44.400 --> 00:40:49.179
like early early 1900 pictures and funny little

00:40:49.179 --> 00:40:53.820
kiss curls and hats and all sorts happening yeah

00:40:53.820 --> 00:40:55.659
there's there's some great pictures and I've

00:40:55.659 --> 00:40:59.070
obviously gone for the most like evocative looking

00:40:59.070 --> 00:41:01.289
ones like you've got such a range don't you've

00:41:01.289 --> 00:41:02.849
got the span of if you've got lots of pictures

00:41:02.849 --> 00:41:04.230
of people you've got the span of their entire

00:41:04.230 --> 00:41:06.710
lives like i've got really like funny pictures

00:41:06.710 --> 00:41:08.949
of my granddad where he's like a child and he's

00:41:08.949 --> 00:41:12.030
got like um dungarees on and it's a really cute

00:41:12.030 --> 00:41:13.869
picture it's it's a posed picture that's been

00:41:13.869 --> 00:41:16.329
done at a proper photo place but i wanted the

00:41:16.329 --> 00:41:18.969
sort of more characterful ones of of them living

00:41:18.969 --> 00:41:21.650
their lives so it's quite interesting like curating

00:41:21.650 --> 00:41:23.530
it and making that choice as to which is their

00:41:23.530 --> 00:41:25.809
profile pic i know you can add multiple pictures

00:41:25.809 --> 00:41:28.440
to each person's account anyway but But you still

00:41:28.440 --> 00:41:30.380
have to make that ultimate decision, which one's

00:41:30.380 --> 00:41:32.659
going to be the one which shows, don't you? Yeah,

00:41:32.739 --> 00:41:34.679
and it was quite funny. With my mother being

00:41:34.679 --> 00:41:37.559
around whilst I was doing it, she really loved

00:41:37.559 --> 00:41:39.719
her granddad. And she goes, oh, I've got a lovely

00:41:39.719 --> 00:41:42.019
picture of my granddad. I want you to use this

00:41:42.019 --> 00:41:46.460
one. So he was born in 1905, but he's the only

00:41:46.460 --> 00:41:48.539
one I've got which is a colour image. Because

00:41:48.539 --> 00:41:50.340
my mum was like, I really want this picture to

00:41:50.340 --> 00:41:52.880
be the picture of him. Whereas I probably do

00:41:52.880 --> 00:41:55.440
have some more younger, slightly dapper looking

00:41:55.440 --> 00:41:58.460
pictures. But it was a lot of fun. I really enjoyed

00:41:58.460 --> 00:42:01.800
it. I need to find more now, though. And the

00:42:01.800 --> 00:42:04.260
one of... There was a run there, that's why,

00:42:04.360 --> 00:42:06.340
of Alexander McKay, and he looked like he had

00:42:06.340 --> 00:42:09.480
a jacket with, like, a zipper on it. Was he the

00:42:09.480 --> 00:42:11.199
one you mentioned was a photo of an aeroplane?

00:42:11.599 --> 00:42:15.420
Yeah, that is him stood next to Dolly. And they

00:42:15.420 --> 00:42:18.420
look like they're explorers. They look like they're

00:42:18.420 --> 00:42:21.099
going to go on a hike or something, but it might

00:42:21.099 --> 00:42:23.760
not even be an aeroplane, but it looks really

00:42:23.760 --> 00:42:26.900
like... I can't describe it to you. It just looks

00:42:26.900 --> 00:42:29.119
really like, right, we're going on an adventure,

00:42:29.199 --> 00:42:32.019
don't we? It's got that sort of vibe. It's cool.

00:42:32.519 --> 00:42:36.900
Maybe I'll put that on. Yes. And I think there

00:42:36.900 --> 00:42:40.139
are pilot's licenses that you can... Ooh. Oh,

00:42:40.139 --> 00:42:41.840
this is a hit. Don't, I mustn't, I'm digging

00:42:41.840 --> 00:42:43.579
like a false promise. I have a feeling that there

00:42:43.579 --> 00:42:46.739
are pilot's license records. Let me get back

00:42:46.739 --> 00:42:50.389
to you on this. Yeah, well, I mean... I might

00:42:50.389 --> 00:42:52.489
be equally lying that it's an aeroplane behind

00:42:52.489 --> 00:42:55.730
them. It could just be a billboard or a freight

00:42:55.730 --> 00:42:58.510
train or anything. So I'm not going to get excited

00:42:58.510 --> 00:43:00.469
about that. The top of his jacket, it does look

00:43:00.469 --> 00:43:03.090
like some sort of zipper overall situation. Yeah.

00:43:03.489 --> 00:43:05.070
But maybe he might not have been a pilot. He

00:43:05.070 --> 00:43:07.289
could have been a mechanic on an aeroplane. Total

00:43:07.289 --> 00:43:09.110
side note, on my marathon, when I was running

00:43:09.110 --> 00:43:11.590
the marathon the other week, either a spitfire

00:43:11.590 --> 00:43:14.869
or a hurricane flew over. It was amazing. I heard

00:43:14.869 --> 00:43:16.469
the noise. I was like, what is that? And I looked

00:43:16.469 --> 00:43:18.900
up, I thought. Oh my word, that's a Spitfire.

00:43:19.119 --> 00:43:20.360
And I was like, is that a Spitfire? And then

00:43:20.360 --> 00:43:21.940
another guy next to me was like, yeah, that's

00:43:21.940 --> 00:43:24.019
a Spitfire. I'm really into aeroplanes. I was

00:43:24.019 --> 00:43:27.340
like, me too. We're best friends now. Anyway,

00:43:27.519 --> 00:43:30.360
tangential, sorry. No, that's fine. I've got

00:43:30.360 --> 00:43:32.420
this really cool little book, which I bought

00:43:32.420 --> 00:43:35.139
on eBay. And it's, sorry if I mentioned it before,

00:43:35.280 --> 00:43:37.519
it's a little tiny pamphlet, size of a postcard,

00:43:37.619 --> 00:43:40.340
probably, I don't know, 30 or 40 pages in it.

00:43:40.460 --> 00:43:43.900
And it's got silhouette drawings of all of the

00:43:43.900 --> 00:43:46.219
aeroplanes, which... not just the British ones,

00:43:46.300 --> 00:43:48.699
but German, American, whatever, which were likely

00:43:48.699 --> 00:43:51.079
to be flying over British skies in the Second

00:43:51.079 --> 00:43:53.519
World War. And the idea was that kids, anybody,

00:43:53.679 --> 00:43:56.059
would be getting these books and you'd be learning

00:43:56.059 --> 00:43:58.260
what the shapes were so you'd know if it's kind

00:43:58.260 --> 00:44:00.239
of friend or foe. And obviously some people were

00:44:00.239 --> 00:44:02.739
using it in a more kind of authoritative fashion

00:44:02.739 --> 00:44:04.960
if they're kind of properly manning guns and

00:44:04.960 --> 00:44:07.639
spotting air things. But obviously it was a craze

00:44:07.639 --> 00:44:09.679
for the kids to know what was happening in the

00:44:09.679 --> 00:44:11.920
sky button. So everybody was interested in these

00:44:11.920 --> 00:44:14.099
silhouettes. Yeah, everyone became a spotter.

00:44:14.139 --> 00:44:17.659
Yeah, spotter. It was a side view, side profile

00:44:17.659 --> 00:44:20.420
of all of the planes and then an undercarriage

00:44:20.420 --> 00:44:22.820
view. Yeah, I've seen those. I love them. Not

00:44:22.820 --> 00:44:32.239
such an airplane geek. Cool. So what are we going

00:44:32.239 --> 00:44:34.559
to do then next week? What's our plan over the

00:44:34.559 --> 00:44:38.059
coming week? Who knows anymore? I promise nothing.

00:44:39.050 --> 00:44:40.989
I do want to get back to my local history, but

00:44:40.989 --> 00:44:43.690
I do feel clearly the Alexander McKay mystery

00:44:43.690 --> 00:44:47.170
is currently in my head. So I will follow this

00:44:47.170 --> 00:44:50.150
up and see if I can actually get anywhere. And

00:44:50.150 --> 00:44:53.289
then if I can't, I'll just sack it off and pretend

00:44:53.289 --> 00:44:55.409
Dolly doesn't exist and cut her out with a photograph.

00:44:56.070 --> 00:44:58.849
I won't do that. Well, she won't do that. No.

00:44:59.849 --> 00:45:01.989
So I feel like, I don't want to put you on the

00:45:01.989 --> 00:45:04.929
spot, but potentially, do you think the idea

00:45:04.929 --> 00:45:09.719
that Alexander McKay had a child? who isn't talked

00:45:09.719 --> 00:45:14.199
about in your family, who potentially has descendants

00:45:14.199 --> 00:45:18.400
and your DNA could potentially answer some of

00:45:18.400 --> 00:45:20.719
those questions. Does that make you want to look

00:45:20.719 --> 00:45:24.159
at your DNA? I'm still sulky with my DNA. I'm

00:45:24.159 --> 00:45:26.380
not in a good place for that. One day you're

00:45:26.380 --> 00:45:28.179
just going to come on the podcast and go, I can't

00:45:28.179 --> 00:45:30.139
believe I didn't look at this sooner. It's amazing.

00:45:31.260 --> 00:45:33.300
Until it tells me I'm a Viking, I'm not talking

00:45:33.300 --> 00:45:38.030
to it. Yes, I guess maybe I can lean into that

00:45:38.030 --> 00:45:40.809
a bit more. Because it's not on my direct line,

00:45:40.929 --> 00:45:43.670
I've got less of a sense of urgency about it.

00:45:44.010 --> 00:45:46.949
And also the thought of going into my DNA just

00:45:46.949 --> 00:45:48.530
tires my brain a bit because then I'm having

00:45:48.530 --> 00:45:50.969
to learn a whole new set of things. And it will

00:45:50.969 --> 00:45:53.809
be a good thing to learn. Maybe this is the opportunity

00:45:53.809 --> 00:45:56.570
that I need to do that because until this point,

00:45:56.590 --> 00:45:58.429
I haven't had that need, have I? It's all been

00:45:58.429 --> 00:46:02.489
quite straightforward. So let's see where this

00:46:02.489 --> 00:46:04.889
mystery takes me. It's just a weird one because

00:46:04.889 --> 00:46:08.570
there's yet no evidence of the birth of a child.

00:46:08.849 --> 00:46:11.710
I'm literally just taking my mum's we didn't

00:46:11.710 --> 00:46:16.469
talk about this line and creating a child. So

00:46:16.469 --> 00:46:18.369
it might just be that it didn't even happen.

00:46:19.030 --> 00:46:21.250
We've obviously had instances in the past where

00:46:21.250 --> 00:46:23.869
people in my family have been confused about

00:46:23.869 --> 00:46:26.130
the relationship of who was married to who and

00:46:26.130 --> 00:46:29.210
when, etc. So I'll take it all with a bit of

00:46:29.210 --> 00:46:31.380
a pinch of salt. But the fact I've got a picture

00:46:31.380 --> 00:46:33.639
of this woman called Dolly and then I've got

00:46:33.639 --> 00:46:36.400
the marriage certificate for Jessie, there's

00:46:36.400 --> 00:46:38.960
something there, isn't there, to look at? Definitely.

00:46:39.380 --> 00:46:41.760
OK, well, I'll wait and see what you report back

00:46:41.760 --> 00:46:44.920
with then. Okey -dokey. What have you been up

00:46:44.920 --> 00:46:48.559
to? What have I been up to? I have been doing

00:46:48.559 --> 00:46:51.360
a little bit on my mapping, but I've stalled

00:46:51.360 --> 00:46:54.159
a little bit because partly I'm feeling guilty

00:46:54.159 --> 00:46:55.920
because at the beginning of the year I set myself

00:46:55.920 --> 00:46:58.360
four major projects to do. And I'm supposed to

00:46:58.360 --> 00:47:00.539
do one a quarter. And obviously we're getting

00:47:00.539 --> 00:47:03.780
near the end of June will be the end of the second

00:47:03.780 --> 00:47:07.880
quarter of the year. And I have been working

00:47:07.880 --> 00:47:10.000
on one of them, but my first project of the year

00:47:10.000 --> 00:47:14.920
I haven't done. So I'm reviving that project.

00:47:14.980 --> 00:47:19.219
And that project is my grandpa's logbook to transcribe

00:47:19.219 --> 00:47:21.639
it using AI. The AI obviously is supposed to

00:47:21.639 --> 00:47:23.519
be helpful. I have to be really honest with me.

00:47:24.079 --> 00:47:25.880
It wasn't very helpful, but I'm going to give

00:47:25.880 --> 00:47:29.219
it another go because people often say this,

00:47:29.300 --> 00:47:32.820
AI is as helpful as how switched on and how precise

00:47:32.820 --> 00:47:34.940
you are when you use it, and it's going to be

00:47:34.940 --> 00:47:37.719
more or less helpful to you. And so when I was

00:47:37.719 --> 00:47:39.639
using AI back at the beginning of the year to

00:47:39.639 --> 00:47:43.059
transcribe my grandpa's logbook, each individual

00:47:43.059 --> 00:47:46.780
page, it would transcribe pretty much perfectly,

00:47:47.119 --> 00:47:49.920
and it would come up with loads of other additional

00:47:49.920 --> 00:47:52.219
rabbit holes for me to follow up. So that's brilliant.

00:47:52.920 --> 00:47:55.059
apart from this is where the human error crept

00:47:55.059 --> 00:47:58.059
in at the beginning of the project um when i

00:47:58.059 --> 00:48:00.920
would when i would try to give them a copy of

00:48:00.920 --> 00:48:02.820
the two pages so obviously when you open a book

00:48:02.820 --> 00:48:06.179
you have two pages the facing pages It just couldn't

00:48:06.179 --> 00:48:08.719
translate. It couldn't go across the page and

00:48:08.719 --> 00:48:13.440
line up the rows from the left -hand page to

00:48:13.440 --> 00:48:15.099
the right -hand page. And then it would turn

00:48:15.099 --> 00:48:18.219
it into total garbage. And then it would do like

00:48:18.219 --> 00:48:20.880
duplicating previous lines of previous pages,

00:48:20.980 --> 00:48:24.639
literally like it had had a meltdown. And so

00:48:24.639 --> 00:48:26.739
I kept trying with this, starting new conversations.

00:48:27.199 --> 00:48:30.760
And in the end, I sort of gave up on it. And

00:48:30.760 --> 00:48:32.539
I thought... You know, I think this is going

00:48:32.539 --> 00:48:34.780
to be easier to just use my little human brain

00:48:34.780 --> 00:48:38.179
in an Excel sheet. But then I got you, stupid

00:48:38.179 --> 00:48:41.159
idiot. All I need to do is, because I'd taken

00:48:41.159 --> 00:48:44.059
individual photos of each of the pages. You've

00:48:44.059 --> 00:48:45.519
got your facing pages. I've taken a photo of

00:48:45.519 --> 00:48:47.300
the left -hand page and a photo of the right

00:48:47.300 --> 00:48:48.800
-hand page because I wanted to try and make sure

00:48:48.800 --> 00:48:51.739
that each photo was as high resolution and clear

00:48:51.739 --> 00:48:54.599
as possible for sharing with my cousins and my

00:48:54.599 --> 00:48:56.960
kids and things like that. Whereas now I'm just

00:48:56.960 --> 00:48:59.780
going to take a photo of the facing pages. left

00:48:59.780 --> 00:49:00.940
-hand page and the right -hand page all in one

00:49:00.940 --> 00:49:03.019
go, then I think it will be easier for it to

00:49:03.019 --> 00:49:05.579
read across the lines and it will probably work

00:49:05.579 --> 00:49:07.320
a treat. And this time next week, I'll be going,

00:49:07.400 --> 00:49:09.320
Nathan, I've done it. Take that project off.

00:49:09.420 --> 00:49:11.539
Because my second project on my list was doing

00:49:11.539 --> 00:49:13.659
my down -and -out tree. And obviously that's,

00:49:13.659 --> 00:49:16.440
I love that. I'm all about that. So I've been

00:49:16.440 --> 00:49:18.420
really good at that project, but I've just completely

00:49:18.420 --> 00:49:22.099
been bad about the previous project. And then

00:49:22.099 --> 00:49:25.780
my third project on there is to add more family

00:49:25.780 --> 00:49:28.849
recipes to my family history website. And so

00:49:28.849 --> 00:49:31.230
I have got some ancestor recipes, which is really

00:49:31.230 --> 00:49:32.849
fun. And I've got some Second World War recipes,

00:49:32.909 --> 00:49:35.389
which are family cooked. And even way back when,

00:49:35.429 --> 00:49:38.670
before then, I've got some little remedies, all

00:49:38.670 --> 00:49:41.449
sorts of things. But my mum and my aunt are both

00:49:41.449 --> 00:49:45.389
brilliant cooks. And they will have lots of staple

00:49:45.389 --> 00:49:47.429
favourites that they'll cook over and over again.

00:49:47.809 --> 00:49:49.489
So I want to make sure I've got their recipes.

00:49:49.630 --> 00:49:51.710
So I'm seeing them both very, very soon. So I'm

00:49:51.710 --> 00:49:54.349
like, OK, I want you to tell me the recipe. Yeah.

00:49:54.699 --> 00:49:56.460
Right. That sounds like a really nice project.

00:49:56.659 --> 00:49:59.059
It's really nice. Yes, it's really nice. Yeah.

00:49:59.480 --> 00:50:02.420
Food and memories and tradition, it's all really

00:50:02.420 --> 00:50:04.739
woven in, isn't it? Yeah. I don't think you need

00:50:04.739 --> 00:50:06.260
to be hard on yourself about not doing the other

00:50:06.260 --> 00:50:09.219
projects, though. The Down and Out one's going

00:50:09.219 --> 00:50:11.079
to last you forever. You're not going to finish

00:50:11.079 --> 00:50:13.699
that, are you? Let's be honest. It's a continuation

00:50:13.699 --> 00:50:15.719
one that's always going to go on. Yeah, Down

00:50:15.719 --> 00:50:17.400
and Out is going to swamp up most of this year.

00:50:17.480 --> 00:50:20.380
The logbook, I think... With a bit of organisation,

00:50:20.719 --> 00:50:22.260
I think I'll get that. I think I could do that

00:50:22.260 --> 00:50:25.440
really quite quickly. The recipes, it's just

00:50:25.440 --> 00:50:27.699
like keeping on adding to it a little bit. I've

00:50:27.699 --> 00:50:29.460
already got some of their recipes and I just

00:50:29.460 --> 00:50:31.940
need to keep adding some more. Yeah. That's cute.

00:50:32.000 --> 00:50:33.300
That'd be a really good keepsake and Christmas

00:50:33.300 --> 00:50:35.780
present for people as well. I could do that,

00:50:35.800 --> 00:50:38.280
couldn't I? Yeah. It's just loads and loads of

00:50:38.280 --> 00:50:42.460
different blog posts. Yeah. Yeah. I could do

00:50:42.460 --> 00:50:44.949
it in a little book. Nice. Yeah. So that's me.

00:50:45.050 --> 00:50:46.610
Anyway, what's the space for the logbook? Now

00:50:46.610 --> 00:50:48.170
I've said that I kind of feel beholden to it,

00:50:48.190 --> 00:50:50.289
which is good because I need pressure to make

00:50:50.289 --> 00:50:52.750
things happen. Yeah, I'll pull you up on it next

00:50:52.750 --> 00:50:57.289
time. OK, OK, it's going to have happened. OK,

00:50:57.389 --> 00:50:59.489
well, thanks for listening, everybody. And we

00:50:59.489 --> 00:51:01.409
reached it at the start. But if you haven't recently,

00:51:01.610 --> 00:51:03.710
do go and look at our lovely new website again.

00:51:03.949 --> 00:51:07.329
It really is a treat. And hopefully you'll find

00:51:07.329 --> 00:51:10.369
what you need. have any queries about anything

00:51:10.369 --> 00:51:12.510
we've said on the podcast, or if you would like

00:51:12.510 --> 00:51:14.369
a hand on finding something on the website, then

00:51:14.369 --> 00:51:17.929
you can email me and Nathan at inquiries at family

00:51:17.929 --> 00:51:20.289
-tree .co .uk. And then Nathan and I both see

00:51:20.289 --> 00:51:22.989
that email address. So we'll be able to answer

00:51:22.989 --> 00:51:25.789
you. And we look forward to seeing your Excel

00:51:25.789 --> 00:51:28.949
sheet as well, Nathan, on our podcast item on

00:51:28.949 --> 00:51:31.389
the website. Yeah, I'm quite excited to do that,

00:51:31.429 --> 00:51:34.530
actually. I know, I know. So we'll be live there.

00:51:34.570 --> 00:51:35.789
By the time you listen to this podcast, it'll

00:51:35.789 --> 00:51:38.360
be there and ready for you. Lovely. Happy researching,

00:51:38.420 --> 00:51:39.320
everyone. Bye.