Hello and welcome to the Family Tree Talk podcast.
My name's Helen Tovey. I'm editor of Family Tree
and with me as usual is... Nathan Ward. Hello
there. Hi Nathan. Today we've got a very special
guest. Who's that then? It's our publisher, Matthew
Hill. Oh my God. Hello. In our best behaviour.
Have we been bad? Yes, we have never been bad.
In fact, we've been very good recently, haven't
we? We have. Working very hard. Yes. So here
he is anyway. Hello, Matt. Hi. Hi. So we've asked
you to come along today because we've all got
some very exciting news to talk about, haven't
we? We have, yes. And you might have seen on
socials and things, but we've redesigned and
relaunched our website and we're very proud of
it, aren't we? We're very proud. In fact, it's
so good and so different that unless you know
our web address, you might accidentally think
you've stumbled on a completely different website.
So just to tell you the website, it is www .family
-tree .co .uk. And it is awesome. It's good fun,
isn't it? So Matt, what's the kind of aim of
the website? Who's it aimed for? What sort of
family historian or someone who's even curious
about family history? Well, that's what we've
done, Helen. So we're really catering for anyone
who's interested. in family history. And at the
kind of heart of the website, the main bit of
it, the main appeal is our content library. So
all the webinars we run with Family Tree Plus,
all the guides we have, videos, downloads, it's
all in this content library that you can search
through so you can tailor it to your own experience.
You can use tags to find the topic that you're
really interested in. So it's bringing together
all our advice and support that we do through
everything we do, including the podcast that
you guys do, and just making it so much easier
for people to find and to enjoy, get something
from, learn from, and also... go on learning
journeys we've called them so you may read a
guide about a particular topic and it's in a
journey so you can continue that over three four
five guides videos that kind of thing and just
really get a good sense of the topic and learn
from it Cool. So Nathan, we always say you're
a newbie, but you're not really a newbie at Family
History anymore. But you're not much of an oldie
that you still can remember being a newbie. So
let's say somebody is pretty new on the Family
History thing. They've just kind of Googled Family
History podcast. They've stumbled across us and
they're like, I don't actually know one end of
a census from the other. What would you recommend
to somebody who's going to our website? well
obviously there's a new section called getting
started and that's all the beginner guides and
links to various things that are going to help
you get started so basically everything we've
done on the podcast for the last year all that
sort of content but in obviously digestible chunks
it's on there for you and then obviously after
that we've got all the next steps and then digging
deeper so we've sort of chopped up all the content
for everybody and made it easy access And things
like the census and BMD records, like whether
you've been digging family history for a year
or 20 years, then we all keep using it. And there's
always new tricks to learn about it, new places
you can access things, new collections being
digitised. So for all of us, I think we probably
all keep scooting back to the beginner content
and refreshing and keeping up to date. Definitely.
It's amazing how much stuff you can forget, isn't
it? It's great. And it looks pretty too. Let's
say that it does. Oh, it definitely does. It
looks like a box of chocolates. It looks fantastic,
doesn't it? It does. It's the place you need
to go to get everything you want from your family
history. Yeah. So, Matt, what's your favourite
thing about our new website? Is there one single
favourite thing? Well, I mean, the content library,
the way it works, if people go along and have
a look at it, a box of chocolates is a really
good way of describing it because there's so
much on there. And you can just, yeah, as I say,
dive in, you can select the topic, your experience.
And also you can see what's available to you
as just visitors to the site. You can register
onto the site and then you'll get a little bit
more content available. And then Family Tree
Plus, which is our online membership. If you're
a member, then pretty much, well, most of the
website is kind of unlocked. to you we just we
have some master classes and webinars that are
separate from that but most of the guys most
of the content library is is um available to
all the members so that's that's probably my
my favorite bit it does look lovely um very modern
pretty box of chocolates um yeah we're just we're
just really proud of it and you know we'd love
feedback from people as well hopefully agree
so what what if somebody just comes onto the
website and what can they do there for free today
So if they come along, the menu on the homepage
of the website has, as Nathan said, getting started,
next steps, digging deeper and DNA testing. So
they can dip into any of those kind of content
streams. And there's loads of content that's
free and freely available for you to read. So
you can just dive in. If you register on the
website and then go to your dashboard, it will
show you. you know where you've been your recent
recently viewed items which is really cool so
you can have a read you know go for a coffee
or come back in a couple of days and you can
pick up where you left off um so it's really
it's it's kind of changed the way we look at
a website so rather than just putting how -to
guides up there and kind of hoping people come
and read them it's much more structured it's
much more of a kind of a learning experience
and um and we think it's yeah we think it's going
to work really well so we'd love you to come
and have a look at it I mean, for somebody like
me, who is, I am busy and I am also a bit forgetful,
then having to log in, then be able to go and
see what I was reading about last time and pick
it up maybe over several days. Because when we
read something to do with family history, we
don't just want to read it. The whole point is
we learn it and then we put it into practice
and we get better at doing our own family history.
We learn new skills. We find out new places to
look, all of that sort of stuff. So for me, being
able to see where I was up to reading something
and what my goals were, using that in tandem
with my little... notebook writing down what
i'm learning about it's just perfect it's kind
of self -tailored self -learning it's really
good from yeah and it and and one of the things
we pride ourselves on is kind of impartiality
so we're going to give you you know advice on
what website to use what tool to use for for
a particular research project or topic i know
you're talking about find my past newspapers
i think in the last episode so we've actually
got a video on that on the website But yeah,
we're completely impartial. We're not going to
give you any actual records or DNA testing, but
we'll tell you how to do it, which one to choose
and give you that support that you need. So yeah,
kind of take pride in that. As a team, we offer
that impartial advice and that's something that
I think is quite unique. So the way the website
is now designed and the content is presented,
it really kind of showcases that. So, yeah, it's
really cool. It's really cool. Nathan, have you
got something that you particularly love about
it? Just, yeah, I probably agree with Matt. I
do like the content hub and I like the way that
the information is presented now. Without being
offensive to ourself, I think it was slightly
hard to find this information on our website
before. Whereas now it feels like a proper hub
for family history. You can come and find anything
you want and it's all easily digestible. It just
looks really nice and calm and comforting. it's
somewhere you're going to want to come back to
because you know there's going to be the next
step after you've done your first bit of research.
I totally agree. So if you haven't already, head
over to our website, family -tree .co .uk, have
a look, maybe register. And if you do that, because
we'll be evolving things on the website, we've
got new events coming up, then you kind of won't
miss anything. You sign up to our free e -newsletter.
And then also, if you haven't already done a
free trial to Family Tree Plus, then you can
take out a free trial. You don't even have to
put in your credit card details. The free trial
lasts for seven days. And we have got... Just
so many video tutorials and presentations that
you can just, you're going to have to put time
off work or do something good, go and hide out
in the park and just enjoy these videos because
there's so many things to learn. So over the
next seven days, you can really enjoy that. And
if you decide it's for you, you're very welcome
to join us and become a Family Tree bus member
going forward. So I think that's everything for
now, isn't it? Yeah, that's brilliant. Thank
you for having me and loving the podcast. Before
I go, last time I was on here, which was, well.
quite a few months ago now um i said i think
i said i hadn't done a dna test i've now done
one and i won't tell you all all the results
but i'm two percent swedish so i just wanted
to to mention that to nathan so i'm pretty much
a viking thanks matt thanks it's time for you
to go now and also just just on that i my dad
always said he was a viking because of something
with his fingers i don't know if you've heard
heard that there's like a viking contracture
in your fingers that he had i haven't got that
so i hope that's some consolation to you nathan
i'm not quite as viking and also just to make
you feel better he's just showing off now nathan
i think we need to cut him off cut me off cut
me off let's mute him before you do well done
to nathan on running a marathon on sunday and
then making it into work on monday to complete
our help us complete the website so oh thank
you heroic heroic effort I was walking very gingerly
that day, but I did make it in. Yeah, it was
all good. Brilliant. Thank you for having me.
And do look at the website. It's brilliant. So,
Nathan, Matt just mentioned your marathon. Yeah.
Yeah, I did Leeds Marathon. I was doing it as
I was training as a backup for a friend who thought
he might get injured and he was training to do
it. with his son for the first time. And he was
like, I'm not sure I'm going to make it round.
Can you train in case I don't get to the day?
And as it is, he trained and got stronger and
stronger and was amazing. But I'd done the lightest
bit of training anyway, so I thought I might
as well sign up and do it. So for this marathon...
Sorry, guys, I'm going to rant about running
now anyway. For this marathon, I'd trained lightly.
I'd done one long run a week and one short run
a week. Previously, when I've been training for
marathons, I'd do five runs in a week. But in
between all that, I'd been doing a bit of Pilates
as well and a bit of gym work, which I hadn't
done before. So I did less run training for this
marathon. So I was like, right, OK, I'm going
to go. I'll do it for fun and it'll be fine.
It'll be nice. As it is, I went out on the day
and got a personal best. So just goes to show
you don't need to run as much to train for it,
which is weird, really weird. But I'm really
chuffed. So it was cool. Really nice day out.
I ran with four of my other friends and we all
got PBs. It was fabulous. That is amazing. You
know, I saw the pictures, Nathan, on Facebook
and it just looked like such a happy life experience.
And as ever, it made me think of family history
because nothing escapes the kind of the... The
net of family history through my eyes. And so
recently, I've been working on some of the articles
ahead because we have to work a little bit ahead
because there's always lots to do. And there's
this amazing genealogist called Hiana Hellstein,
and she's all about the fact that we should record
our own life stories. And as family historians,
we can be quite modest about that. And we just
are always checking out people decades ago, centuries
ago. And then when it comes to our own family
story, there can be a big blank page. And she
was... kind of encouraging and urging us in these
articles which are going to appear soon in family
tree we're going to run a lovely course with
her come the autumn it's going to have a time
capsule it's going to be so exciting so you build
your own time capsule anyway this back to the
marathon this made me think that i hope somewhere
you journal your marathon stuff because for your
boys or any other future descendants like the
dedication you put into it and the joy you get
out of it it's just really inspiring and it's
a really it's a big bit of your life doing running
I'd love to say it was a big bit of my life but
it isn't but um but it's really cool so do you
write it down somewhere like how are we going
to capture these marathon memories it it's a
weird one I do I do sort of worry about this
a bit like I'm on Strava which is like the runners
social media app thing it tracks you run it tells
you how fast you've done things where it shows
you a map of the route etc which is quite cool
But other than people that are logged into Strava,
I don't think anybody else has access to that.
In terms of like my medals, I just throw them
in my sock drawer when I'm done. I don't display
them or anything, which is probably wrong. I
should take a bit more pride in it. Yeah, I mean,
it's just social media, isn't it? Like sharing
on my run groups. I don't actually really share
it that much with anyone else. Although, to be
fair, if you looked at my social media, it pretty
much is just me talking about running. It would
be good to chronicle it. It's like my friend
Kate, she asked me how many miles I'd done training
and I didn't have a clue because I haven't been
following it. So I went back and added it up.
And despite me saying I only did two runs a week
in the training, it added up to 389 miles of
training. But it would be quite nice to just
write that down somewhere, wouldn't it? And say
like, oh, my dad was so dedicated or whatever.
He did this and went on that many runs. But no,
I'm not putting it anywhere. Not for future generations
to find. When I die, somebody's going to open
my sock drawer and be like, oh, this guy ran.
And there won't be really any records of it.
Weird. Something for us all to think about because
we're all going to be in danger of doing that,
aren't we? Having things that we love, things
that we do. If it's digital, kind of a digital
journal on Facebook, that's only so far so good.
It's not very far and not very good. it's not
very kind of future -proof is it and it's not
very accessible necessarily definitely not no
and then like in a weird way like all my running
group they are my family as well it's it's a
weird thing that all these people that won't
appear on my tree but they are the fabric of
who I am as well and obviously I'm still riding
on a little bit of euphoria so I'm very loved
up with my run group at the moment but um it's
just lovely to share these moments with them
and like I say they are like a family so it's
it's a strange one to then not actually have
it catalogued anywhere. So, because I'm such
a bossy person, can I give you a to -do list?
Do I have any choice? No. Go on then, go for
it. So I think even if you don't do it for all
of your previous marathons, but probably you
could. do it relatively easily but definitely
for the one that you've just done while it's
all fresh in your mind you need to print out
a couple of those photos those lovely pictures
of you and your running buddies you need to even
if it's just with a pen write on the printout
and go put their names yeah And with little arrows,
everyone knows exactly who is who in the picture.
You need to write just what you told me that
it was a personal best. You could do some screen
grabs of Strava from Strava and say how many
miles you ran and the places you ran. Because
you never know, one day in the future, you might
have a grandson or a great grandson. This is
what Kiana Hellstein is all about. She's like,
we need to tell our descendants what our life
was actually like. It's a great way of feeling
bonded and to help. people through tough times
like knowing someone was born in a certain place
and died there and worked as whatever job that
does nothing for anybody doesn't make a soul
thing whereas if you knew that your great great
grandpa um sometimes had struggles but kept running
and was a really diligent person you'd be like
I'm diligent I'm like him and you can feel It's
like a comfort blanket from the ancestors, kind
of woven to all these stories and memories. So
you're going to get your word document. You're
shoving in the pictures. You're annotating them.
You're getting your pictures in Strava. You're
writing down about how you didn't have as much
time to train as you wished. And the focus of
you actually doing this marathon was just for
a friend anyway, initially. But you had the silver
lining karma reward that you got a PB. You're
going to write it all down and say how helpful
running is in your life. Definitely. shoved that
in the drawer as well yeah definitely we know
what freddie sucks it is quite interesting because
like both myself and my cousin have we found
running in sort of later life i don't really
want to say later life but we were we weren't
running when we were younger i'll put it that
way and we've got into it and then both like
my auntie and my mom have been like oh it's great
that you two are running and obviously picked
it up roughly at the same time because Then they've
gone on to say that my granddad used to run with
like putsy harriers and all this stuff and things
that we didn't actually know. You know, we've
gone to running without knowing he was actually
actively involved in this. And now it's really
cool to think that might have come from him,
like the athletic ability, if you will. Athletic
ability and its mindset and mindset is a huge
quality, isn't it? Definitely. Yeah, you have
to keep saying that you have to be stubborn to
be a runner or a family historian. Yeah. so we
have as ever got loads of mail i know should
we have a little dive into our mailbox please
do okay i don't think i'm ever gonna get bored
with our podcast mail i love it i love it i just
it's nice to know that people are listening to
us we're not just having fun talking to each
other yes so First up, we have a message from
Professor Kevin. Oh. I know. And Kevin has, he's
written him before and he's written him with
another great tip. So he's talking about Nathan.
The other week, then you put up a photo of one
of your ancestors on your ancestry tree. And
then you were kind of like a bit disappointed
that there wasn't a huge rush of people stealing
the photo for your tree, in Kevin's words. And
Kevin relates to this. He says, I must admit,
I had some trepidation initially as well, but
I've got over this. Most people who share the
photos will be relatives anyway, so that's not
all bad. And he recently shared a photo of his
great grandparents with their children, and it
recently appeared back to him in his hints as
a colourised photo. So someone had copied down
the photo, colourised it, added it up again,
and it had been served up to him as a colourful
hint. So that's kind of fun. And then... This
is his tip for you. He says, what I was going
to suggest to Nathan is that the profile photos
don't need to be of the person themselves. He
sometimes puts a photo of the church they were
married in or the house they lived in, or even
just something related to where they lived, preferably
historic pictures or paintings. Sometimes he
puts a flag or an emblem instead. Anyway, don't
know if this is helpful, Kevin writes, but it's
just another idea to bombard his brain with.
What do you think about that? Yeah, my brain
is officially bombarded. It's a nice idea, though.
Like, I was very one track with it. I was thinking,
yeah, picture, picture, picture, like, you know,
profile pics. It doesn't have to be, does it?
And if you can't find that picture, that person's
picture, but you could find their house or their
street, then that's also a good link to refresh
your mind as to, oh, they were there, or this
is a little bit of context for them. So that
is a good idea. It's a really good idea because...
Old photos, if someone's passed and the photo
hasn't been taken or the photo's been lost to
time, we don't want to kind of stall and just
have the little pink, blue or grey profile. We
can definitely do better than that, can't we?
Yeah. I mean, I've still not managed to put,
I'll get onto this in a bit, but I've still not
managed to put any more pictures on there. But
when I go to my tree and I see Margaret Gamble
with that one picture, I'm like, oh, that looks
really cool. I need more, definitely. It's on
my list of things to do. It's become a priority.
One side note to this. I've put that picture
on there of her. And she looks like, in this
picture, she looks like a really old lady. And
I don't know if you remember, because it's George
Horatio Nelson. Yes, my favourite. It's his first
wife. She died and then obviously he remarried.
And in this picture, like I say, I've only just
realised, but she was only 40 when she died.
But obviously of the times, she looked really
old. I'd say she looks like grandma age. It's
very intriguing. It is. And maybe also because
she died young, maybe whatever her ill health
was, maybe that just has taken its toll on her
looks. Now you're making me feel guilty like
I've judged her. Honestly, sometimes you see
wartime pictures and I have this with one of
my grandfathers. There's pictures of him in the
spring of 1939 and he's... When he previously
left school about a year before, he looks like
a kid. You see pictures of him in May 1945 and
you think he's in his early 40s. Those six long
years of the Second World War just took it out
of him. Yeah? Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, might be depressing.
Sorry about that. No, I mean, obviously it's
all very depressing. I've just checked because
I actually bought her a death certificate. She
died with issues from pregnancy. Yeah. But, you
know, having a baby at 40 as well in those times.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and potentially she's had,
I can't remember how many children she'd had,
but it's tough, isn't it? We do have to learn
about tough things when we do our family history.
She had six, six children. Six, that's a lot.
Maybe seven. Yeah. Because also, back in the
day, we're talking early 20th century, there
were formula milk and bottles, you can find them,
they're kind of funny banana -shaped bottles,
I think back to Victorian times, or maybe even,
probably way back when, because there will always
have been... for whatever reason for some babies
to need to be bottle fed in the past. And then
obviously with developments and society expectations,
things have changed and they continue to change
over the decades. But if we're going back to
the early 20th century, there's every chance
you would have breastfed all those children.
So it's not just being pregnant. Sorry, Nathan,
that this is not your area, but any women out
there, it's tiring being pregnant and breastfeeding.
It takes a lot of vitamins out of you. Yeah.
So it's a long process. It's not just those nine
months. Yeah? Yeah, no, I appreciate that. Yeah.
Shall I dive back into the mailbox? Oh, please
do. Have we got more? We have got more, yes.
So this is from Kate now. And Kate says she wanted
to say how much she enjoys our podcast. Thank
you, Kate. So Kate works as a gardener and she's
always pleased on a Monday morning because she
can listen to our wonderful podcast whilst working.
The only downside is that there's so much good
information that she feels she should make notes
and that doesn't really go hand in hand with
weeding or pruning. Nice one. Distracting people
from their work. I like it. Yes, but also so
impressive that she wants to make notes. I like
that. Yes, it is. We like a good bit of diligence,
don't we? Those research logs. I'm always filling
my research log in. Hashtag, I'm not. Well, we
do write down some things, don't we? I am getting
better. Yes. The last... I'm a comet, is for
me. And I was so excited about this because,
you know, when you said that you kind of hope
when you put the photo up of your ancestor, there
will be loads of other relations diving onto
it going, yes, yes, yes, like a kind of flock
of seagulls. And you could all have a conversation
about the ancestor photo. And then there was
a kind of a silence. And that was a bit sad.
And I often feel that with my family history
that I'm like, why is no one else researching
my people? Because they're not just mine, obviously
other people's as well. And I often feel like
I'm researching in a vacuum. Anyway, Celine writes
from Cork. So I was waffling a few weeks ago
when the 1926 census for Ireland came out and
I was waffling about where my great great grandpa
and great granny were living. My great great
granny and my grandpa, where they were living
in Cork in Douglas. Celine writes, she loves
the chats between us, Nathan, and she was listening
on her drive to work and was on the Douglas overpass
when we mentioned the mill. So that was the O
'Brien's Mill or St. Patrick's Mill in Douglas
Cork, where my great great grandpa worked. And
Celine says, I know that we can see anything
on Google Earth, etc. But if there are any local
photos that you'd like me to take, then she's
happy to. I mean, isn't that kind? Oh, that's
really lovely. That's really nice. Thank you.
I know. So although it's not a family history
connection like Celine and my aunt related, it
was so cool just to think of that geographical
connection. Yeah, it gives you the context, doesn't
it, and the location. And you love maps, obviously,
so that will tie in nicely. Yeah, it does tie
in really, really well. Yeah. So there's one
thing which I thought we could think about because
I think both me and you are struggling with this
a little bit. Shall we talk about something difficult?
go on then what well um so is that what what
on earth do good research notes look like because
we it's a continuous battle isn't it we we talk
loftily about our research logs and then we start
our genealogy journal and we have so many good
intentions we chat about the notes and the comments
we can put into our online trees but What are
we doing here? There's so many things to try
and do. I think we need to take it back to the
beginning, do a bit of a 101 for somebody who's
brand new, maybe to family history or brand new
to the idea of making notes about it. And also
to ourselves, because I think we're getting lost
in the weeds. What are we trying to accomplish?
Okay. Yeah, that sounds good. Yeah. Yeah. Over
to you, Nathan. I'm stumped. As to what we do.
Why are we here? We're here to make a family
tree. We're here to find out if we're a Viking,
which obviously I'm not, so we'll forget about
that for now. Yes, so we're here to find how
far back we can get in our family tree, see who
we're related to, and discover lots of fun family
stories using all the documents that are available
to us on the internet or in archives. That is
a really good summary. So that's all the stuff
that we do, and then... It is kind of quite an
emotional journey as well, because it sounds
quite clinical when you say what we have to do.
It sounds very nuts and bolts. But when we do
it, it does feel much more like a soap opera
or normally quite a tragic movie, doesn't it?
It does when you are doing it and you start painting
little stories. I mean, they're beautiful. I
love your stories. They're always sad, aren't
they? Sorry. They kind of make me happy because
I'm like, oh, sad just happens. But things carry
on. I kind of find that. Cheering. Yeah. Sounds
weird. What I mean is sad isn't the end of the
world. Sometimes sad is tough, but you have to
just keep going. Yeah. Yeah. And it also makes
for an interesting story. Yes. Yes. So all of
the stuff you were saying, that is a lot of information
that we're gathering, isn't it? It is. And putting
it on a tree is a really good way of kind of
building a road map, isn't it? That's like the
map. But it doesn't actually tell you why you
decided to put that person there on the tree.
It doesn't tell you what informed any of the
information, like what records gave you the clues.
It doesn't tell the story of them at all, does
it? So we need to do more than just build a tree.
We also need to do some sort of way of capturing
why we did what we did, what we found, what it
means to us, maybe? Yeah, definitely. I am finding
the genealogy journal helpful. As normal, I am
being hit and miss with my keeping up with it.
If I'm perfectly honest, I did some retrospective
genealogy journaling this week where I filled
in previous week's genealogy journal entries
that I hadn't done. But I did have the notes,
I just hadn't gone to the journal. So it is still
chronologically correct. I just wasn't actively
doing it on the week that I should have been
doing it. I think that's okay. I think it's fine.
I've documented it, which is more than I was
previously doing because I got so stumped with,
not stumped, but bogged down with the research
log because the research log became like mania.
I was like, I need to research this person. I
need to look at this document and then put in
loads of question marks, loads of mysteries,
loads of rabbit holes. And the document just
became a splurge of nonsense from my brain. My
genealogy journal is softer because it's, this
is what I've actually done. This is what I've
found out. And then at the end, what questions
do I have that I might want to carry forward?
So it is technically the same thing. It's just
karma. And I think it's just a shift in my mindset
as to what I'm recording. My research log was
everything. And that just sounds like chaos.
This is much slower, much calmer. It might not
be as in -depth. I might not be going, I was
looking at the 1921 census and blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah. But it's giving a structure
and an order to say where my mind was and how
I was progressing through this journey. So if
I look back on it and read through each page,
I'll see the strand I was on. I'll see maybe
a couple of documents that I was thinking that
related to, I've picked out like key details
as to why I think things. It's just softer and
it's easier to do because it's just chronicling
what I'm doing as opposed to. everything I'm
doing. And I think that's my own personal distinction
between the two. I don't know how you feel about
that. No, I think it's a really good distinction.
I think it's a really good reality check because
I'm definitely all for people writing down. I
think we're all crazy to try and think we can
do family history without writing it down. I've
done that in the past. That's why I know what
a silly plan it is not to write anything down
because you will not remember it. I'd defy anyone
to remember everything. You just can't. But then
equally, sometimes... I've done the same thing
as you, Nathan, write down absolutely everything.
And it's almost as though it's like kind of constructing
an alibi for your family history research. So
as if the let's say it was a crime and the police
came knocking on your door and you had like this
watertight alibi of everything you've done or
where you were at whatever point. But you can't.
live your whole life constructing and writing
noting down your alibi just in case the police
come knocking on the door so that's when I get
into the thing of doing a research sometimes
it does get a bit out of hand and it's too unwieldy
for me to ever revisit and it's it does it it
doesn't make it easy to pick up my research it
makes it too hard to have so much to wade through
to try and pick up where I was so I definitely
think there's a balance to be had there and so
I think just maybe Doing a nice kind of genealogy
journal for when things are going swimmingly.
When things get trickier, then write more detailed
notes about what you're doing, what puzzles you're
trying to solve. Even the things, it's a very
important point about recording, when you try
something and you don't find anyone, that's worth
doing so you don't do that again. But on the
whole, just do your family history and then be
more conscious about writing more detail when
it gets hard. And then sometimes there will be...
areas of our family history where we thought
it was all going fine we haven't got good notes
we're going to have to revisit it we're going
to have to redo it at that stage we'll wish we
had written our alibis and everything else down
but on the whole that's that that's a less likely
scenario on the whole we don't on the whole most
of the things that we've worked diligently to
prove find sources for and carefully construct
on the whole they are fine so i think continuously
maybe it's not maybe it's going to be different
if you're a professional researcher and you're
constructing someone else's tree on someone else's
money that's one thing whereas if we're hobbyist
family historians which you and I both are we're
doing our own family history for our own enjoyment
then I think maybe we could just be a little
gentler on our note -taking not to say don't
note -take but just do what just what you said
yeah well it's like It's meant to be fun. It's
meant to be enjoyable. We shouldn't be recording
research logs or notes out of guilt. You know,
for fear like, oh, what if the genealogy police
do knock on my door and come check my research
notes? It's not going to happen ever. You're
just deluding yourself. You're just getting scared.
Don't feel guilty about it. As long as you're
enjoying yourself, that's the priority, isn't
it? But to help you on your journey and make
it easier, that's where the notes come in. But
they shouldn't be recorded in a guilty way. It
should be, this is going to help me later on.
So I think, although, and I think this is also
in family history, often all of us tried to find
the absolute perfect bit of software or the perfect
way of doing this or the perfect way of doing
that. And it's a horrible answer, but I just
don't think there is a perfect answer. I think
consistency is part of a perfect answer and conscientiousness
is part of a perfect answer, but there isn't
a tool or a system. I don't think that's perfect.
If anyone listening has a perfect solution that
they've been using for a while and they go, this
is it, please tell us. Well, I'm an example of
that, aren't I? I've solidly come into family
history as a complete beginner and said to myself,
I'm doing this in Ancestry and that's it. So
I spent a year doing that and I've done really
well and Ancestry is absolutely brilliant. But
the more involved you get. the more you realise
that it's not everything and you can get more
things from other websites or other places. And
you do need to start dipping your toe into those
bits. But as a beginner, it can be quite daunting
to find all these places to go search or visit,
etc. So starting off somewhere like Ancestry
was perfectly fine and it is a good place to
start. But there isn't, like you said, just one
place you can stay if you're going to get that
involved in it. This is a really interesting
conversation to have. So you have done a lot
of family history now over the last kind of year
and a half. And I think just in your character,
you're going to think you're a newbie forever
because that's just how you are. But you're not
a newbie anymore. But can you scroll your head
back and say to somebody, maybe they've had a
conversation with a relation recently, or maybe
it's just been an idea that's pondering around
their head and they're thinking, I really actually
like to do some family history. heard other people
talk about their family history and maybe watched
a tele programme, maybe have listened to a different
podcast from our one and they want to get started.
What would you recommend to somebody who's just
starting out, literally from the beginning? They
haven't really done anything. They might have
a few papers or just a few questions in their
head. Right. I think I still would recommend
signing up for a free Ancestry account, not necessarily
a subscription. And I'd say get down on, well...
clearly if you said ancestry get down on paper
or get down on ancestry your immediate relatives
and the reason I'd say do it on ancestry is because
it looks pretty when you see the tree starting
and I think that will create the natural excitement
and make you want to then say right well how
do I get a bit further back so yeah jot down
your direct descendants as far as you know from
your own head and then start filling in the blanks
if you don't know bits about them And then I
imagine that would just spur you on to say, right,
well, I've got these guys. How do I find out
who their parents are? And suddenly it's a year
later and you're a family historian, yeah. And
if somebody is doing that, then I think you found
it quite helpful chatting to your mum, didn't
you? Yeah, well, she'd obviously, my mum had
done some family history years ago, like in the
olden days, the 90s. Pre -internet, or maybe
pre -internet? Pre -internet or just on the edge
of internet? Is it James Reunited? I think that
was probably the only place they ever tried to
go on the internet. Everything else was done
in archives and libraries. So anyway, my mum
had done some research and she had the history.
And to be fair, there's not many people left
alive in my family that have the historical knowledge.
So I went and asked her some questions and she's
got a big steel... a box full of old family history
documents which I'd like to talk about a bit
in the minute or two so that was really useful
talking to her and it obviously got me a bit
further because she could flesh out a few details
for me and then it was as much as she was giving
me the information for my own peace of mind I
would then want to go check these facts and make
sure they were right and Ancestry does help with
that quite a lot. And just that sounds really
good like building a tree and checking facts
but if you haven't done any family history before
like when you What did you, can you, can you
remember like when you first started adding people
to your tree, did you find it, was it logical?
Was it nice and clear? Yes. The initial stage
is definitely where, cause it's like you create
yourself. My name's Nathan. And then it says
like, add your parents. So you add your parents
and then they appear. So you put in their birthday,
hopefully not their death date yet. And then
you go on and do add their parents. It's just,
it is all a very natural flow. you don't have
to do it at that point you don't have to do any
research other than knowing your family's birth
dates and that should be enough but after that
i guess i guess that's when it gets trickier
because obviously i had you guiding me so i knew
where to go and look what to look for but that's
when you have to start using the searches within
ancestry looking for the census documents etc
births marriages and deaths and that's obviously
the starting block for everybody So with the
checking the facts thing, if you are brand new
to family history, there's a few things you could
do. One, as long as you've got about 75 hours
spare in your life, you could scoot back to episode
one of the podcast. And at that stage, Nathan
is a newbie family historian. He's literally
not added a single name to a single family tree.
And we're both newbie podcasters. And we start
Nathan's journey of him doing his family history.
Spoiler alert, he wanted to be a Viking and another
spoiler alert. He wasn't, but... Let's not cast
that one just yet. I do have a little bit of
Germanic Danish or a Germanic something or other.
There's a little bit of me in Denmark. I'm taking
it as Viking. So we won't say I'm not a Viking
just yet. Okay, we won't say that just yet. Touchy
subject. touchy subject but we do start methodically
well not kind of methodically because family
history has a kind of method kind of sequence
or methodology has a kind of sequence and flow
that is very similar to all of us so we start
doing our family history but then it's soon we
all have our own different perspectives on it
just like each of our families are different
each of our relationships with our relations
is different so our family history has some kind
of commonalities just as all families all living
families have some commonalities and has some
differences anyway so i think If you're brand
new to Family History, that would be useful to
go back to the beginning. And the other thing,
we mentioned at the beginning of this about our
wonderful new website. And if you go to our website,
family -tree .co .uk, go to Get Started. And
there are literally organised articles going
how to get started, how to build your tree, all
about census records, all about birth, marriages
and death records. And if you register, as Matt,
our boss, was explaining, then when you come
back, you'll be able to see where you were. partway
through reading one of these massive articles
they're really they're massive but they've got
loads of useful headers to help you just read
it in little chunks you'll see where you are
you can build your knowledge you'll be pleased
it's it's a really rewarding exercise isn't it
getting that confidence and know -how about family
history definitely and if i didn't have a helen
i think that website would actually be really
helpful to give you the starting box it's really
useful content Yes. And also, if anybody is brave
enough to wade back to all the old podcasts,
they will see that every few episodes I have
to do a confession about something I've got wrong.
So we just do our best. That's what we can do
as little humans, isn't it? Who doesn't love
a confession? Yes. I haven't confessed anything
recently. Not that I've got anything wrong. I've
just never stopped confessing. No, I don't know
if you haven't got anything wrong. Nathan, anyway,
you tantalisingly mentioned that steel box and
you said you wanted to chat more about it. Yes,
and last week I mentioned about obviously putting
my picture of Margaret on the tree and then that
led to me talking about one of my ancestors,
Edward Hearn, who I've mentioned him a few times.
He died in the war. I've seen him on other people's
tree where he didn't die in the war and he got
married and had children. So there are people
with... I need chopping off the tree, basically.
So I've debated for a long time, should I put
these documents on my tree? And the answer is
yes, I should, because it was going to help people
in the long run. So my homework then, I went
to this trunk to get said documents so I could
upload them. Did I get them? No, I didn't. I
got distracted. I found so many books, newspaper
articles, and all sorts about the history of
Calvert instead. And I just got totally lost
in them. There was a Calveley Parish Church Bazaar
souvenir handbook from 1932. And this is a photocopy
of it. It's a full document. And in it, there's
an advert for my... Let me just check my facts
here. My second time's great granddad. No, third
time's great granddad. Thomas Caller Saville.
And he's got a fish and chip shop. And there's
a little, like, old -school advert for his fish
and chip shop in this 1932 handbook. And it's
just really cool. And there's also, like, within
it, there's references to Reverend Redhead, who
is not related to me, but he's appeared on the
podcast from one of the listeners. But he's in
there. It talks about him. And he was anointed
by George the... I'm going to have to look it
up. 445th, it says. So there's even, like, a
little picture of him as well. It's cool. You'd
love this, Helen. I'll show you it. Yeah, he
was a vicar of Calverley from 1822 to 1845. It's
just a really cool document. And it was exactly
what I sort of wanted to find, basically. So
I just got lost in all these Calverley -related
things. And my mum's got a postcard book of Calverley.
And it tells you, like, the history of Calverley
and shows you really old pictures. And I just,
again, I got lost in that. It was awesome. It's
amazing. It's amazing. Do you know what? When
I had just started doing family history, then
I read this article and I'm pretty sure, I might
be wrong enough, there's this really well -known
genealogist called John Tipford. And I think
it's John Tipford and apologies if it's not John
Tipford. Anyway, he was in an archive and he'd
been working away all day long, really, really
hard. And then he walked away from his desk.
And then when he walked past the desk, a little
piece of paper just fluttered out of the book
onto the floor. And it was the exact details
that he needed. And it just felt really serendipitous.
And people have talked before about the genealogy
angel. And it sounds not, it's not. my kind of
natural spiritual home I'm much more kind of
prosaic practical person well I'm not I'm a daydreamer
but I am I kind of I find it hard to let myself
go and really go yes sometimes the universe is
out to help you but people do talk about the
genealogy angel so just a week or so ago we were
bagging on about on the podcast and you were
kind of in a bit of a genealogy impasse and you
were kind of you'd done lots of research you'd
researched lots of deaths it got a bit heavy
and you weren't sure what to go next and I said
Nathan try and build up your local history knowledge
because your ancestors really have come from
that area for so many generations and you've
got so many branches of your tree there you're
going to find lots of interesting texture and
context about their lives and you were like yeah
I might do that I might not do that and anyway
you have looked in this trunk so many times over
the weeks and months of the podcast You've gone
in and out of the trunk and you've never, ever
noticed all this local history knowledge before.
And then just when you need it, you go in there
and your eyes are open to it and you see this
wealth of stuff, like your own personal archive,
your own personal village. It's fantastic. It's
brilliant. And like actually going into my genealogy
journal, the question that I put a question at
the end of every diary entry, my question that
I put is what else is in that trunk? Because
clearly I haven't looked enough. So it's quite
exciting. It's really exciting. It was like a
newspaper extract. It's annoying because somebody's
cut this newspaper extract out. It's quite an
old newspaper, but there's no dates because it's
been cut out in such a way you can't tell. And
it's all about St Wilfred's, which is a church
in Calverley, and that's where everybody came
and got married. And the first line is, Calverley
will always be synonymous with murder, but...
And then it goes on about the church. And that's
like... It's brought childhood memories back
for me because, like, we always used to talk
about the headless horseman living in the woods.
Wow. And I'd totally forgotten all this stuff,
but just that one line in that news report was
like, oh, yeah, there's history here. And so
the story is Sir Walter Carverley, who obviously
Carverley's named after, he went into, like,
this violent rage and killed both of his sons
and then for his crimes... Now, I'm going to
get this wrong, so, again... I'll do a Helen.
He was stoned to death, crushed, and had his
head chopped off. But as children, I think we
made up a lot of this. But we always used to
fantasize about the headless horseman riding
through Carverley Woods. He was like a local
ghost. But I totally forgot on all this. You
know, just all these things escape you. But we
used to, like, go in the woods and be like, oh,
my God, the headless horseman's going to come
get us. And you'd, like, see hoof prints on the
floor in the mud. And you'd be like, oh, my God,
it's the horseman. I don't know if it was the
horse that got beheaded or him. I mean, hopefully
it was him because why would the horse get beheaded?
That'd be mean. Anyway, it tied in with the story.
But yeah, so it's all fascinating. But equally,
there's a picture of that chap in this Calvary
postcard book that I've got. So I mean, I'm quite
intrigued to dig in a bit deeper about that as
well. Nothing to do with me, but it's obviously
local history. It is. And these are kind of folk
tales and memories and local stories that you're...
your family will have known for for generations
and in our modern world i think sometimes our
it's it's a good in a way it's good in a way
but our perspective is so big that we get international
news all day long just the whole time which is
great but there are only little humans whether
you're in the 16th century or today you've only
got 24 hours in a day and we've got hours of
doom scrolling we have to do and we have to keep
answering hundreds of emails. We have so many
things which suck up our time. And so sometimes
it can leave less time for these local stories
and family stories to get passed on. So I think
you need to dust them off, learn about them and
make sure your boys know them. Yeah. Well, I
mean, that's a great one, isn't it as well? The
Headless Horseman. It's an exciting story and
it's actually tied to real life events, whether
the ghost is real or not. But I've heard the
horse chasing me down. It makes me run faster.
Yes. But yeah, it's just, it's just really cool.
This, the book in particular with the postcards,
it's got really cool quotes in it. I'll dig some
out for maybe next time, but I think I mentioned
last time about the Calvary cutting and I was
curious as to whether it was a train line. It
was for a stage coach apparently. And it was,
it's called the cutting because they literally
cut it out of like proper like granite or whatever,
whatever the wood, whatever the stone is. They
literally cut a path all the way down to Appley
Bridge. And I can't remember the quote off the
top of my head, but in this book, it's got like
people's complaints about it at the time, saying
how it was too dangerous and the infirm wouldn't
be able to travel it, et cetera, because it was
too steep. And it's just really cool. And there's
even a postcard for the day that they unveiled
the Cavalier War Memorial, which obviously I've
done a run video to, and it's got my Edward Nelson
on it. But yeah, there's a picture of it, and
it's like on the 28th of May, 1922. And everybody's
in their Sunday best, and obviously it's like
1922, so everybody is naturally quite formal.
They've all got their hats and shirts on, and
it's a sunny day, but they've got brollies up,
and they're all crowded round in Carver Park
for the unveiling of this memorial. And it's
a really cool picture. I absolutely love it.
That's so poignant. It's just nice that it ties
into stuff that I've been researching. It's great.
You know, in past weeks, sometimes you said you
were jealous of me because I'm going off with
my DNA down in art research, and I find... distant
kin in far -flung lands or whatever, and you
feel like, oh, why are you just based in Calvary?
Well, I have now got serious genealogy envy for
all of your local roots and all of those special
local things you have. I'm so rootless. You're
so lucky. I now feel weak and depressed and very
jealous. Oh, no, no. You've got plenty to be
going on. There's different adventures for us
all to have. That's very true. There are different
adventures for us all to have. The grass is always
greener, isn't it? It's like, I want these farm
book adventures, but I've got local adventures.
Yeah. It's so cool, though. I'll have to show
you this book. I can't wait to hear more stories
from the trunk, tales from the trunk. The things
that are in there, I've had a little sneak peek
and I had to stop myself looking further because
I've got so much Calvary stuff right now. But
I found things about, like, there's my granddad's
retirement speech for when he retired from work,
and then there's manuals for his job, and then
he'd made notes in about, like, I think he was
an electrician, but he'd made notes in this book
about his work and all sorts of stuff. There
was even some sort of thing from the London College
of Music that he passed some music exam. I have
no clue what he did musically at all, so that's
something for me to look at. But I literally
had to stop myself because... I've been bad.
I've been really bad. I've talked about this
trunk for a year and there's so much stuff I've
clearly just ignored and thinking that's not
of interest to me. I just want these hard facts.
I want to find the history of the people. And
actually there's like lots of social context
within it. It's great. But it's nice now that
I've done my own little bits of research and
I can see some of the results in, like I said,
the captions for these postcards. It's like,
oh, that relates to this. And I've actually found
that out. And I'm slightly obsessed now with
St. Wilfrid's. Equally, the ghosts as well. I'm
actually going to go on a bit of a ghost thing.
Last week as well on social media, I followed
a local pub called the Thornhill and they put
a post on about how it's actually one of the
most haunted pubs in England and it put a list
of their quote -unquote ghosts. Maybe I'll do
a Carver paranormal journey. That sounds cool.
I definitely think you should do. It's like finding
out the origins of who are these people. Well,
exactly. There'll be a truth in them. They will.
They'll come from somewhere. Obviously, Walter
Carverley is obvious because it's him. He's the
Headless Horseman. But then there's an old hall
in Carverley, which I've not even mentioned.
It's called the Old Hall. We all know it's haunted.
The White Lady lives there. I don't know anything
about the White Lady. So maybe, do you know what?
This really actually appeals to me. This is my
sort of thing. I might have to go and find out
who the White Lady is. I definitely think you
should. Oh, boy. So anybody who's listening,
I hope you've enjoyed. Nathan's tantalising tease
of his ghost stories. And if anybody has genealogy
angel moments, family history ghost stories related
to either your families or the places they lived,
if anyone wants to get practical and tell us
the perfect genealogy solution to keeping good
notes, if you have one, just drop us a line because
we absolutely love hearing from you. It's always
fun and inspirational. As soon as I get an email
and I ping it right over to Nathan. You can email
us at enquiries at family -tree .co .uk. If you
do that, then we'll both get it more easily.
And also, we mentioned before that we're going
to set up a little place on our website where
we can have podcast show notes, OK? And so if
you go to family -tree .co .uk and then search
for the word podcast, and then you'll find our
special podcast page. And that's a really easy
way to find the podcast and find any links we
mention, things like that. And maybe sometimes
Nathan will share pictures with his... genealogy
journal. Yeah. Well, I'm quite tempted to share
this picture of this war memorial just because
I've been talking about it so much. That'd be
quite nice to share. That'd be really lovely.
Well, thanks, Nathan. It's been so fun talking
to you. Yeah, thank you. It's been nice. It's
been lovely. Brightened my day, this. Yes. And
thanks for listening, everybody. And we'll see
you next week. Happy researching.