WEBVTT

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Hello and welcome to Fan Muti Talk. My name's

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Helen Tovey and with me is Nathan Ward. Hello

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there. Hi Nathan. Hi Helen, you alright? I'm

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very well, yes. Do you know, just this morning

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we had a very, very cool email from a podcast

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listener and it's going to extra gladden your

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heart for lots of different reasons. Shall I

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read it out? Go on then, yep. Okay, so... Liam

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writes from down under his words. Firstly, can

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he say thank you to me and you? That's me and

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you, Nathan, for the February Tree Talk podcast.

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He's based in Melbourne, Australia, and is a

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big fan. And he's training for a marathon at

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the moment. And normally he listens when he's

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out on his long run. Nathan will relate to this.

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Liam writes, and he needs something to take his

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mind off the tiredness in the legs. So he switches

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to our podcast after an hour of running and he

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often finds a nugget of wisdom from our conversation.

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So thank you. So that's very, very exciting.

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And he's written in with the questions which

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we can dig into in the future. We'll try and

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get one of our. Wonderful researchers who answer

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the questions on our Q &A page as a family tree

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magazine. We'll see if they can help him and

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we can go from there. But anyway, thanks for

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listening from the other side of the world. Yeah,

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brilliant. Good luck with your marathon as well.

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Yes, yes. We have had some other lovely podcasts

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as well. Shall I quickly read those out as well?

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We have a little dose of... Let's, let's. It's

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a nice way to start the day, isn't it? Okay.

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So... um marion wrote in and she said that she

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loves our podcast it has a natural flow well

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it does have a flow because it's um completely

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unscripted as you don't need telling that to

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know if you listen and she loves um she's recently

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got up in the whole series whilst ironing and

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staining her new shed nice yeah and she's been

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i love it i do exactly the same listen i listen

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to podcasts And when I'm doing other things and

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it just takes an ordinary everyday job and takes

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your brain away somewhere else. And you have

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a wonderful time whilst doing something quite

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mundane. And Mary has been in and out of family

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history since the 1980s, but there's always something

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new to learn. So that's very cool. So that's

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very nice, isn't it? It is. It is lovely. Yeah.

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So how's your research gone over the last week?

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Not well, to be honest. I'm still in a funk,

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I think. I'm pretty much just not sure what I

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want to do. And so I thought, right, instead

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of just sitting there and not doing anything,

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I'll just dive into, like, a top player and try

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and, like, add as many census records, et cetera,

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you know, the core facts, and just see what happens

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from there. And it didn't go well. I guess I'm

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getting close to the 1841, and obviously I'm

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a little bit freaked out by the 1841. It was

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just really hard work. nothing quite matched

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up as quickly and as easily as I wanted it to

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and this is my disclaimer now I think I was quite

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tired when I was doing it initially and I recommend

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not being tired when you're doing this stuff

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because I had this one woman I think it was Grace

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Turner she is married to my third time great

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granddad Benjamin Ward and I was tracing her

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line back and I got my fourth time's great grandparents

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already for them, for her, through this. But

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it was wrong. What happened? I'll start again.

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Yeah, basically, so I was doing my census records.

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Boom, boom, boom, writing these names in. And

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on the census, I had four matching names. So

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I had Grace, a brother and a sister, maybe, and

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then her parents. So I had four names matching.

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I was like, this is brilliant. Four names matching.

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Lovely job, Blair. Boom, boom, boom. put in a

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bunch of census records, and then I found her

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marriage certificate. And on her marriage certificate,

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her father's name was not the father that I was

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getting on the census records. So I was like,

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oh, my God. Is that his middle name? Do I have

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to research this guy and see if he's just got

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a different name at different times? Or have

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I made a massive mistake? And I think I've made

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a massive mistake, basically. I think I got too

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comfortable with all these names matching up

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and actually it was just circumstance because

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I have since found a Grace Turner with a mum

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and dad that matched the marriage certificate.

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So then I had to go in and delete a few records,

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which absolutely was terrifying. So I might have

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a few new stragglers on my tree that I don't

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know. Yeah. so you're pretty sure that you got

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it wrong and you had to do that deleting yes

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like literally I did it on one day and like I

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said I was really tired pressing these buttons

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and then so I think originally on the census

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records I was looking for this Thomas Turner

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who was her dad and it was all fine and dandy

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married to Mary blah blah blah and then the marriage

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certificate it said Charles Turner It was then

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definitely my Benjamin Ward and his father was

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correct and the occupations were correct. Everything

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on the marriage certificate lined up a lot more

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than just circumstantial names. So I was like,

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OK, this must be right. And I had a hissy fit

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at that point and just stopped. I thought, OK,

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carry on, I'm too tired. So then when I've come

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back to it with a slightly more level head, I've

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looked into it more and I am confident that the

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wedding certificate is the right match. Therefore,

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the other stuff was wrong. So I deleted a couple

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of census records. And again, that's kind of

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where I stopped. But I'm a little bit concerned.

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I've added brothers and sisters that aren't actually

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real. And because I deleted those records, I

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don't know if they're tied to her. Are they tied

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to her anymore? Or are they just free floating

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in my tree somewhere? People, if you delete the

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records, the people will still be there. Because

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as we all know, you can build a tree, have a

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tree on Ancestry, and you can have not a single

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source if you wish. Obviously, that's not what

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we advise. We're all about the sources and we

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mention them every single week, along with our

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other pet topics of research logs and things

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like that. So just because you delete a document,

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your tree will remain constructed exactly as

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you've constructed it. And you remember, I had

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this problem as well. I had to do the kind of

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embarrassing thing of realising I've made a mistake.

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I had to delete off some documents. And when

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you delete the documents out of the sources column,

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you realise they're completely not connected

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to your family. then it does advise you, a little

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pop -up, advise me anyway, it said, what's the

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effect of, make sure you delete any facts. So

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you're deleting the source. You're on your facts

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place in Ancestry where you have the timeline

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of facts down the left -hand side, you have the

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sources in the middle, and then you have all

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the relationships, like the mum and dad and their

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siblings, children, whatever, over on the right

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-hand side. So just because you delete a source

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from the central column, from the sources column,

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you have to manually go and remove those facts.

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So let's say you had something saying that one

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of those people, I'm saying their occupation,

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and that had fed out into the facts column. You

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need to make sure that's been removed as well.

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Otherwise, you're going to have stray facts,

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which are going to confuse you because they're

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now, they relate to somebody who is no longer

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on your tree. And they're also going to damage

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your tree score because you'll have deleted that

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source out of the central column. But your...

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you're still going to have a fact. It would be

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an unverified, an unsourced fact in your fact

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column. So for your tree score project, you're

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going to need to make sure you've got rid of

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those facts. So it's all okay. It's a bit of

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methodicalness going through. Yeah. Okay. I think

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I've pretty much given up on tree score now anyway.

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Like I realised, again, I was tired and a bit

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grumpy, but as I was doing it, I was realising

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how hard it was to actually gather facts now.

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for these people that are in like 1800s and 1700s

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it's it's obviously trickier to link and relate

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to i'm like this is just gonna naturally damage

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my tree score as i go i would disagree with you

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because i think i could be wrong about this my

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sense from the ancestry tree score is not that

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you need to have millions of sources per person

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but what you do need to have for every fact you

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have they want to have a source provided for

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it so it's that um sourced fact which will bring

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your tree score down. So you say they're born

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in 1846 in Witham -on -the -Hill and you have

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no proof, no like document, no link, no information

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about why you think that, your tree score will

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nibble down a bit. Whereas if you just need to

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say where you found that information, which document,

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which historical source, whatever the source

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is, I think they even provide capacity for oral

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history. You just need to... to provide some

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way or some breadcrumb trail of why you thought

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what you thought don't worry about that don't

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worry you have to find loads of things you just

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need to make sure all your facts are sourced

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and that's when in when we're doing our family

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history we might even even in one session we

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might add sources for most of the things but

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it's highly likely we're not going to add a source

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for everything just because we're in the flow

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we're having fun and we just inadvertently forget

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to add a source for a particular aspect So this

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was going to happen a little bit. That's why

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it's good to do a tree do -over occasionally,

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isn't it? And just like go back to the start,

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just check through everything. Definitely. Like

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I was feeling the tension with this one. Like

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I said, I keep going on about it, but I was quite

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tired. It seemed like an overload. It seemed

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too much. But equally, I was like, I do need

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to stop doing this now and look at it objectively.

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But I actually need to make sure I come back

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tomorrow and look at it objectively and not in

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three weeks time because it will just have gone

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by then. Yeah. Mentally confused. So it's just

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making sure I don't get tangled with it all.

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I think, I mean, it's so relatable, everything

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you're saying, Nathan, because we all have these

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problems where suddenly we've realised we've

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made a mistake. And I agree with you that the

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ideal thing is to come back to it while it's

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as fresh in your brain as possible. I'll be giving

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yourself a little bit of a break so you can have

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a fresh pair of eyes when you look at it. But

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come back to it as soon as you can to reassess

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it. But also, I know from my life, sometimes

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weeks, months, however long can pass before I

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come back to a problem, either because I've got

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too busy with other things or I've been naughty

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and got distracted by other things. But that's

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where writing some sort of note to yourself.

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on that key person on grace's in her little note

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area you could say put the date and say i i realized

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i made a mistake with her father this is now

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calling into question which ones of those siblings

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on the tree are actually her siblings i need

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to verify this nuclear family so i need to verify

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grace her parents and her siblings double check

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everything and i did i would i'm so forgetful

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i literally write it myself i go i need to check

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are each of these siblings really grace's siblings

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are both those parents definitely grace's parents

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and are they each of those siblings parents just

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to make sure that there isn't a second marriage

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somewhere and if If they're not, you know, and

00:11:26.919 --> 00:11:28.460
go through the facts for each of those people.

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And it's not masses of people. It's seven people,

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isn't it? Six people. Yeah. go through all of

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the facts for those people and make sure I haven't

00:11:37.409 --> 00:11:39.730
got any stray facts which are left behind from

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a document I've now deleted and make sure just

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not for the gold star um make sure that I have

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got a source for each of those facts so I'd write

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a little plan to myself that plan could sit there

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for five years then when you come back to it

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even in five years time you go I know exactly

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what I need to do it's all right i know it sounds

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mad but like i think this is the flip side you

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know when you sometimes hear some people and

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it'd normally be if you're just meeting somebody

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casually or in the pub or something like that

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and they go oh my auntie's done our family history

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she's finished it all and i'm just like i always

00:12:10.710 --> 00:12:13.029
find that conversation i'm always a bit kind

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of gobsmacked i'm not quite sure where to take

00:12:14.870 --> 00:12:17.669
it because i'm like personally it's your auntie

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so she's only going to be have done probably

00:12:19.929 --> 00:12:23.070
your dad's side of the family or your mum's side

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what about that old other other side of the family

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tree that your auntie hasn't even touched on

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she's probably not interested in you know the

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her brother or sister's spouse's tree is she

00:12:32.809 --> 00:12:36.309
um oh so many questions anyway so this is the

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flip side of that that if you do get family history

00:12:38.929 --> 00:12:40.909
under your skin and you just keep chipping away

00:12:40.909 --> 00:12:42.590
at it your whole life long once you've kind of

00:12:42.590 --> 00:12:46.759
once you're just you've got it it's like malaria

00:12:46.759 --> 00:12:48.360
and it will just keep coming back you see in

00:12:48.360 --> 00:12:49.679
your blood you're not getting rid of it okay

00:12:49.679 --> 00:12:51.799
once you're in that position sorry to make a

00:12:51.799 --> 00:12:54.019
facetious joke about a disease so apologies for

00:12:54.019 --> 00:12:57.799
that but what i mean is once you've um once you've

00:12:57.799 --> 00:13:00.220
watched this part of your life then sometimes

00:13:00.220 --> 00:13:02.820
a long time can elapse and you'll before you

00:13:02.820 --> 00:13:05.600
can get back to revisiting an aspect of your

00:13:05.600 --> 00:13:07.820
family tree with enough diligence as you would

00:13:07.820 --> 00:13:11.879
wish yeah i guess that just again goes back to

00:13:11.879 --> 00:13:15.120
our whole conversations about note making and

00:13:15.120 --> 00:13:17.580
research logs and making sure it's all as solid

00:13:17.580 --> 00:13:22.500
as it can be which it isn't but I am enjoying

00:13:22.500 --> 00:13:24.679
my little genealogy journal I do think that's

00:13:24.679 --> 00:13:27.960
it's turned a corner for me that it's it's not

00:13:27.960 --> 00:13:30.139
necessarily as detailed as a research log but

00:13:30.139 --> 00:13:35.299
at least I'm making notes it's good yeah really

00:13:35.299 --> 00:13:38.059
good it is good I'm just I'm just a bit frustrated

00:13:38.059 --> 00:13:41.600
I've just found this stage a little bit Well,

00:13:41.639 --> 00:13:43.460
obviously making a mistake is irritating, but

00:13:43.460 --> 00:13:47.320
then I want to be excited by something and nothing's

00:13:47.320 --> 00:13:49.860
quite grabbing me yet. You know, like previously

00:13:49.860 --> 00:13:51.759
I've had little families that I've got really

00:13:51.759 --> 00:13:54.159
involved with and love names and just gone off

00:13:54.159 --> 00:13:57.860
on tangents. It's all just a bit data gathering

00:13:57.860 --> 00:14:01.360
at the moment still. But I guess I am getting

00:14:01.360 --> 00:14:03.340
to that stage where it's getting a little bit

00:14:03.340 --> 00:14:06.139
more challenging as well. So maybe that's showing

00:14:06.139 --> 00:14:08.159
my laziness coming out. It's like, oh, this is

00:14:08.159 --> 00:14:11.340
harder than it used to be. But with all your

00:14:11.340 --> 00:14:13.620
running you've got the perfect your running is

00:14:13.620 --> 00:14:16.259
giving you the perfect training because it's

00:14:16.259 --> 00:14:19.740
the same mentality, isn't it when You know you

00:14:19.740 --> 00:14:21.559
keep if you keep showing up for something. Sometimes

00:14:21.559 --> 00:14:24.269
you'll have a really good I haven't run for a

00:14:24.269 --> 00:14:26.450
billion years, so I've gradually started my memory.

00:14:26.529 --> 00:14:27.950
But when I used to go running, sometimes you'd

00:14:27.950 --> 00:14:29.769
go for a really good run and sometimes you'd

00:14:29.769 --> 00:14:31.809
go for quite a bad run. And sometimes, because

00:14:31.809 --> 00:14:33.470
I was running so long ago, you wouldn't particularly,

00:14:33.669 --> 00:14:35.809
it wouldn't be a high tech environment. You'd

00:14:35.809 --> 00:14:38.250
think you'd done a really good and or bad run.

00:14:38.409 --> 00:14:39.850
And then when you got back and actually checked

00:14:39.850 --> 00:14:42.549
the time on the cooker clock, then you'd realise

00:14:42.549 --> 00:14:44.370
that you might have thought it was a bad run

00:14:44.370 --> 00:14:45.769
and actually it was a good run or vice versa.

00:14:45.929 --> 00:14:49.679
So it's doing something consistently. quite an

00:14:49.679 --> 00:14:52.519
emotional journey and um it can feel tough sometimes

00:14:52.519 --> 00:14:55.840
but you have to keep going yes definitely that's

00:14:55.840 --> 00:14:58.700
where you need to return to page one of your

00:14:58.700 --> 00:15:01.240
genealogy journal and read your mission statement

00:15:01.240 --> 00:15:05.899
oh god still embarrassed by that don't be do

00:15:05.899 --> 00:15:08.200
you know who who i've been finding really inspirational

00:15:08.200 --> 00:15:11.340
and um your your mission statement really chimes

00:15:11.340 --> 00:15:13.740
with the sort of things that she's been saying

00:15:13.740 --> 00:15:17.759
as well is jen bulwin who's a expert genealogist

00:15:17.759 --> 00:15:19.720
at find my past and she's done a brilliant well

00:15:19.720 --> 00:15:21.200
she's done loads and loads of podcasts over the

00:15:21.200 --> 00:15:23.899
years but this recent series she's done on the

00:15:23.899 --> 00:15:26.820
irish potato famine it's just four i think it's

00:15:26.820 --> 00:15:30.100
four episodes long and it's so thought -provoking

00:15:30.100 --> 00:15:35.659
and so wise and perfect for perfect for ironing

00:15:35.659 --> 00:15:37.899
perfect for painting the shed perfect for going

00:15:37.899 --> 00:15:40.220
on runs with perfect it's so wise it's perfect

00:15:40.220 --> 00:15:41.740
just for sitting on the sofa and listening too

00:15:41.740 --> 00:15:45.309
intently anyway she says lots of wise Wise and

00:15:45.309 --> 00:15:48.169
reflective points. That's what we need. Really

00:15:48.169 --> 00:15:49.570
recommend it. If anyone wants to listen, you've

00:15:49.570 --> 00:15:50.929
probably already heard it and listened to it.

00:15:50.990 --> 00:15:53.570
It's called A Family History Of. So if you put

00:15:53.570 --> 00:15:55.690
that in, you can find it in all the usual podcast

00:15:55.690 --> 00:16:06.009
places. Nice. Delightful. I think I might be

00:16:06.009 --> 00:16:08.950
having a trip soon. I found a grave. There's

00:16:08.950 --> 00:16:13.149
an image of a grave for... But this, again, I

00:16:13.149 --> 00:16:15.389
was jumping around my tree quite a little bit

00:16:15.389 --> 00:16:18.009
just to try and get some momentum going. And

00:16:18.009 --> 00:16:20.450
I was looking for Edward Lupton, who I think

00:16:20.450 --> 00:16:23.610
is my... I will just check this fact before I

00:16:23.610 --> 00:16:27.470
even speak. He's my fourth -time great -grandparent.

00:16:28.309 --> 00:16:31.889
Coming from I don't know who. But anyway, there's

00:16:31.889 --> 00:16:34.669
a grave for him. It's like 1800 and something

00:16:34.669 --> 00:16:39.210
grave. Him and his wife. And it's... It's in

00:16:39.210 --> 00:16:41.110
a village that I don't really know, but I know

00:16:41.110 --> 00:16:43.809
it's not too far away. And I kind of, I want

00:16:43.809 --> 00:16:45.690
to go and do an etching of the grave. I don't

00:16:45.690 --> 00:16:49.330
know why. Oh, how lovely. Because there's a picture

00:16:49.330 --> 00:16:51.029
of it and you can make out some details on it.

00:16:51.090 --> 00:16:52.809
I couldn't just tie this picture to my tree,

00:16:52.889 --> 00:16:55.750
but I think it'd be quite cool to go there myself

00:16:55.750 --> 00:17:00.269
and see this grave, find some real history. I

00:17:00.269 --> 00:17:01.490
think that's a great idea. I think you should

00:17:01.490 --> 00:17:04.250
take yourself a thermos of coffee. Make sure

00:17:04.250 --> 00:17:07.670
that you have all your art equipment. And going

00:17:07.670 --> 00:17:11.089
a while away, beautiful spring afternoon drawing.

00:17:11.589 --> 00:17:13.609
I just think it'd be a fun thing to find, wouldn't

00:17:13.609 --> 00:17:15.789
it? Yeah, it's in Otley, so it's not too far

00:17:15.789 --> 00:17:18.970
away at all. Yeah, that's an amazing project.

00:17:19.490 --> 00:17:23.630
But it's got... This is daft now. The reason

00:17:23.630 --> 00:17:26.109
for going is it's got both the birth and death

00:17:26.109 --> 00:17:29.309
dates on this gravestone of Edward Lupton and

00:17:29.309 --> 00:17:33.990
his wife. And I can't find those records. In

00:17:33.990 --> 00:17:36.430
Ancestry, at the moment, I probably should look

00:17:36.430 --> 00:17:38.869
a bit harder and maybe I will. But I figure if

00:17:38.869 --> 00:17:40.630
I find the gravestone and I've got an etching

00:17:40.630 --> 00:17:43.190
of it, I can photograph it. And that becomes

00:17:43.190 --> 00:17:45.769
my official source then. Again, like I could

00:17:45.769 --> 00:17:48.289
just link to the other members who have actually

00:17:48.289 --> 00:17:50.650
photographed this grave, but I kind of want to

00:17:50.650 --> 00:17:54.569
do it myself. I might be doing that. I think

00:17:54.569 --> 00:17:56.710
you should do that. Can I tell you something?

00:17:56.910 --> 00:17:58.509
No, I don't. Shall I tell you something which

00:17:58.509 --> 00:18:00.730
will make you go, make you say, oh, I feel all

00:18:00.730 --> 00:18:05.079
sweaty again? go on then so it is great that

00:18:05.079 --> 00:18:06.660
you find the gravestone but as you know with

00:18:06.660 --> 00:18:08.779
everything you don't just want one source of

00:18:08.779 --> 00:18:10.640
information and there's like this it's not an

00:18:10.640 --> 00:18:13.200
urban myth it is a fact but it's it's a it's

00:18:13.200 --> 00:18:14.599
obviously like a less it's not going to occur

00:18:14.599 --> 00:18:16.000
that often but it's worth knowing that it can

00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:18.220
happen so obviously when you get a gravestone

00:18:18.220 --> 00:18:22.519
um carved it's an expensive process so if a mistake

00:18:22.519 --> 00:18:25.500
happens on it you do occasionally see them corrected

00:18:25.500 --> 00:18:27.720
isn't it there's been an obvious amendment to

00:18:27.720 --> 00:18:30.119
a wrong detail but sometimes they have to just

00:18:30.119 --> 00:18:33.759
let the errors go so um just so you know that's

00:18:33.759 --> 00:18:36.880
a possibility i mean why would you say this to

00:18:36.880 --> 00:18:40.960
me that's awful we're just keeping an open mind

00:18:40.960 --> 00:18:43.299
to the to the evidence that you're seeking isn't

00:18:43.299 --> 00:18:45.849
it and understand Yeah, equally, it could be

00:18:45.849 --> 00:18:48.950
a really circumstantial Edward Lupton that isn't

00:18:48.950 --> 00:18:52.430
mine as well. There is that possibility still,

00:18:52.509 --> 00:18:55.690
despite everything matching. Thanks for that,

00:18:55.710 --> 00:19:00.670
Helen. Sorry. I'm not going now. No, I think

00:19:00.670 --> 00:19:02.769
you should go. I love the idea of you doing a

00:19:02.769 --> 00:19:05.269
sketch of it. That sounds so special. And also

00:19:05.269 --> 00:19:07.089
just giving yourself that time sitting there,

00:19:07.190 --> 00:19:10.569
sketching the grave, that you'll just be thinking

00:19:10.569 --> 00:19:12.390
loads and loads of family history thoughts. It

00:19:12.390 --> 00:19:14.750
will be... you'll have loads of brainwaves. You

00:19:14.750 --> 00:19:15.990
know, when you just allow yourself that time

00:19:15.990 --> 00:19:19.170
for a bit of not rushing around in the daily

00:19:19.170 --> 00:19:21.809
life hecticness. Yeah, I think that appeals more

00:19:21.809 --> 00:19:24.390
than anything, to be honest. Like, I can pop

00:19:24.390 --> 00:19:26.470
down to Carver Church any time I want to and

00:19:26.470 --> 00:19:29.049
have a look around. And it is nice to be there

00:19:29.049 --> 00:19:32.349
and have a nosy about, but just to actually go

00:19:32.349 --> 00:19:34.309
for a day out somewhere but actually have a little

00:19:34.309 --> 00:19:36.430
subplot of, oh, there's a bit of family history

00:19:36.430 --> 00:19:39.509
here as well. It does just seem quite relaxing.

00:19:42.700 --> 00:19:44.200
You could find yourself going back to do loads

00:19:44.200 --> 00:19:47.980
of different sketches of that church as well.

00:19:48.160 --> 00:19:51.180
The obvious one would be the font, in case you

00:19:51.180 --> 00:19:54.019
find family members who've been baptised there.

00:19:54.200 --> 00:19:57.799
All sorts of things. Yeah, you never know. Yep.

00:19:58.180 --> 00:20:01.099
Oh, man. Yeah. Not that the facts are going to

00:20:01.099 --> 00:20:02.859
be correct, because it's been etched wrong, whatever.

00:20:05.059 --> 00:20:07.240
There's every chance they're correct. The chances

00:20:07.240 --> 00:20:09.140
are they are going to be correct. You just need

00:20:09.140 --> 00:20:12.160
to be... You just all need to keep... Open to

00:20:12.160 --> 00:20:13.819
the fact that they could be a little bit wrong.

00:20:14.079 --> 00:20:16.839
Yeah. And going off on a slight tangent now,

00:20:16.960 --> 00:20:20.380
everything I've been doing with these fourth

00:20:20.380 --> 00:20:22.940
times and a little bit fifth times great grandparents,

00:20:23.480 --> 00:20:27.680
I'm getting the birthdays, unless I've got concrete

00:20:27.680 --> 00:20:31.039
facts, can be really, really varied. Is that

00:20:31.039 --> 00:20:35.119
commonplace? Previously, it's been like one or

00:20:35.119 --> 00:20:37.700
two years with everybody until you find the proper

00:20:37.700 --> 00:20:40.920
one. But I've got one now. Well, it's Edward

00:20:40.920 --> 00:20:43.039
Lupton. I've got one record that says he was

00:20:43.039 --> 00:20:46.240
born in 1795. And then I've got another one that's

00:20:46.240 --> 00:20:49.680
saying he's born in 1786. So that's quite a big

00:20:49.680 --> 00:20:52.619
range. But I'm finding this is happening a lot.

00:20:53.220 --> 00:20:58.180
So did you say 86 and 95? Yes. So that's a very

00:20:58.180 --> 00:21:01.279
big range. So I think you need to kind of keep

00:21:01.279 --> 00:21:04.720
your serious thinking hat on about that because

00:21:04.720 --> 00:21:07.190
that is a big range. And so the things which

00:21:07.190 --> 00:21:09.210
are going to help resolve it is, I think we chatted

00:21:09.210 --> 00:21:11.190
about the other week, the more evidence you can

00:21:11.190 --> 00:21:13.549
gather, not just for that person, but also for

00:21:13.549 --> 00:21:16.269
their surrounding people, their parents, their

00:21:16.269 --> 00:21:17.650
parents, siblings, all of that, building out

00:21:17.650 --> 00:21:21.329
the family more and more, then it helps you double

00:21:21.329 --> 00:21:23.450
check that you're not getting in a muddle with

00:21:23.450 --> 00:21:25.289
somebody else. Because with a kind of eight,

00:21:25.369 --> 00:21:27.670
nine year gap, then that could be similar to

00:21:27.670 --> 00:21:30.250
the problem I had the other week, where I thought.

00:21:31.040 --> 00:21:34.660
You could be looking at two babies, one of whom

00:21:34.660 --> 00:21:38.359
was born baptised in 1786 and one of whom was

00:21:38.359 --> 00:21:44.259
born baptised in 1795. And you or somebody else

00:21:44.259 --> 00:21:46.200
in the intervening years and decades in their

00:21:46.200 --> 00:21:49.519
family history or the ancestry algorithm or whatever

00:21:49.519 --> 00:21:52.079
is conflating those two people into one people

00:21:52.079 --> 00:21:54.839
and giving them a broad birth span. So it could

00:21:54.839 --> 00:21:57.279
be that... That's happened. So it'd be worth

00:21:57.279 --> 00:21:59.680
checking through the baptism registers. You could

00:21:59.680 --> 00:22:01.940
just really methodically, if it's just with a

00:22:01.940 --> 00:22:03.680
very static family and you're just looking through

00:22:03.680 --> 00:22:05.880
one parish, just go through page by page and

00:22:05.880 --> 00:22:09.000
read all the entries and see, are you spotting

00:22:09.000 --> 00:22:11.660
two little Edward Lutons getting born and baptised

00:22:11.660 --> 00:22:15.059
at any point? The other point, if you're looking

00:22:15.059 --> 00:22:19.680
at somebody and they're... their kind of start

00:22:19.680 --> 00:22:22.799
of life information is from before 1837 in england

00:22:22.799 --> 00:22:24.920
and wales you've only got that baptism record

00:22:24.920 --> 00:22:27.980
to go on you haven't got a birth record sometimes

00:22:27.980 --> 00:22:31.660
the kind recorders of the details will include

00:22:31.660 --> 00:22:36.150
the birth date on the baptism record so you'll

00:22:36.150 --> 00:22:38.390
go you'll be able to know that the baby was born

00:22:38.390 --> 00:22:40.849
then and it was baptized six weeks later or two

00:22:40.849 --> 00:22:44.309
years later or 10 years later whatever it is

00:22:44.309 --> 00:22:47.390
but very often those baptism records are only

00:22:47.390 --> 00:22:50.670
going to show the baptism date so from that we

00:22:50.670 --> 00:22:53.549
infer that it's a little baby getting born that

00:22:53.549 --> 00:22:56.809
is on the whole it's a little baby getting born

00:22:56.809 --> 00:22:59.930
but you don't know how old that baby is so And

00:22:59.930 --> 00:23:02.930
sometimes siblings will get baptised in a batch.

00:23:03.490 --> 00:23:06.430
So they've all got the same baptism date, but

00:23:06.430 --> 00:23:11.230
they're not quadruplets or whatever. Yeah. Yeah.

00:23:11.549 --> 00:23:14.609
So there's lots of there's lots and lots of thinking

00:23:14.609 --> 00:23:20.089
which needs to happen. So another thing is, so

00:23:20.089 --> 00:23:22.349
let's say I'm your Edward Lupton. Let's say we

00:23:22.349 --> 00:23:25.809
establish through further research that he was

00:23:25.809 --> 00:23:29.640
his baptism date. His birth date or his birth

00:23:29.640 --> 00:23:32.180
year that comes to light from subsequent research

00:23:32.180 --> 00:23:35.539
is that it is 1795, but actually he was baptised

00:23:35.539 --> 00:23:39.579
in 1797. Through tracing his life, you're going

00:23:39.579 --> 00:23:41.700
to hopefully find lots of other records for him.

00:23:41.940 --> 00:23:44.779
And so the more and more information you're going

00:23:44.779 --> 00:23:46.759
to get about him, the more clues that will give

00:23:46.759 --> 00:23:49.019
you when he was actually born. Just because his

00:23:49.019 --> 00:23:51.759
baptism record doesn't include his birth date

00:23:51.759 --> 00:23:53.960
doesn't necessarily mean that he doesn't know

00:23:53.960 --> 00:23:57.470
his birth date. He may know it. Future decades,

00:23:57.529 --> 00:23:59.170
it could be a 30 -year -old man and he's asked

00:23:59.170 --> 00:24:01.349
what his birth date is and he provides it correctly.

00:24:01.710 --> 00:24:04.230
So it's that building the picture thing and completely

00:24:04.230 --> 00:24:07.170
keep being mindful of what source you're using.

00:24:07.509 --> 00:24:11.170
Right, okay. Who recorded the details? Because

00:24:11.170 --> 00:24:15.009
if it's him recording it about his life, he stands

00:24:15.009 --> 00:24:16.869
a good chance of being accurate. Whereas, for

00:24:16.869 --> 00:24:18.990
instance, if somebody was recording it after

00:24:18.990 --> 00:24:20.930
his death and they're just trying to remember

00:24:20.930 --> 00:24:23.470
an event from 70 years ago that they weren't

00:24:23.470 --> 00:24:27.339
actually there at, it's more open to error. Or

00:24:27.339 --> 00:24:29.259
did they have a family Bible with all the details

00:24:29.259 --> 00:24:30.940
neatly written in and it's not open to error?

00:24:31.079 --> 00:24:34.460
I don't know. It's all variable, isn't it? Okay,

00:24:34.480 --> 00:24:36.579
cool. I mean, the Edward Lupton one might not

00:24:36.579 --> 00:24:39.700
be a good example because I do have that tombstone,

00:24:39.740 --> 00:24:42.259
which may or may not be correct. But that tells

00:24:42.259 --> 00:24:44.740
me when he died and how old he was when he died.

00:24:44.799 --> 00:24:50.279
So I can see that that's right. Agree. But it

00:24:50.279 --> 00:24:52.539
was just like a commonplace thing that, I mean,

00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:54.819
that was extreme variable, but it seemed to be

00:24:54.819 --> 00:24:58.720
happening a lot with a lot of people. The year

00:24:58.720 --> 00:25:01.539
ranges were fluctuating more than I'd previously

00:25:01.539 --> 00:25:04.799
seen. And there's things which are going to impact

00:25:04.799 --> 00:25:08.000
that. So although, you know, you are not a fan

00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:11.940
of the 1841 census yet, but one of the other

00:25:11.940 --> 00:25:15.160
reasons which is going to potentially cause a

00:25:15.160 --> 00:25:17.200
discrepancy in people's age when you're looking

00:25:17.200 --> 00:25:21.670
at people in the 1790s. In the 1841 census, for

00:25:21.670 --> 00:25:25.589
anyone who was over the age of 15, then their

00:25:25.589 --> 00:25:28.990
age was rounded down to the nearest five years.

00:25:29.710 --> 00:25:33.650
So if you're on the 1841 census and you're 54,

00:25:34.150 --> 00:25:37.109
then you're going to be recorded as 50. If you're

00:25:37.109 --> 00:25:40.210
in the 1841 census and you're 28, you're going

00:25:40.210 --> 00:25:42.869
to be recorded as 25. So suddenly we're introducing

00:25:42.869 --> 00:25:45.910
this little, the census will infer that that

00:25:45.910 --> 00:25:49.240
person is born. you know, on that five -year

00:25:49.240 --> 00:25:51.180
mark. So it's an inferred birth year from the

00:25:51.180 --> 00:25:54.000
census. You have to know that the 1841 census

00:25:54.000 --> 00:25:57.420
does this to people's ages over the age of 15.

00:25:57.700 --> 00:26:00.880
And so that's going to, again, start giving you

00:26:00.880 --> 00:26:03.759
a parameter for when somebody's born. That's

00:26:03.759 --> 00:26:05.700
really good to know. That explains a lot as well,

00:26:05.779 --> 00:26:08.059
doesn't it, for me there? Yeah. Because I didn't

00:26:08.059 --> 00:26:11.099
know that at all. Right. On a hunch, let's say

00:26:11.099 --> 00:26:14.059
the only two pieces of evidence you had for somebody

00:26:14.059 --> 00:26:18.819
was their baptism. in 1795 and you had the 1841

00:26:18.819 --> 00:26:22.460
census entry for them so by then they're inevitably

00:26:22.460 --> 00:26:25.380
going to be whatever they're going to be 46 years

00:26:25.380 --> 00:26:27.720
old so they're going to be recorded as 45 so

00:26:27.720 --> 00:26:29.920
immediately that's introduced to one year error

00:26:29.920 --> 00:26:33.420
hasn't it and then their baptism you don't know

00:26:33.420 --> 00:26:35.859
how old they are when they when they get baptized

00:26:35.859 --> 00:26:40.240
but just by tradition and hunch and just think

00:26:40.240 --> 00:26:43.359
of the size of if you have like we have a beautiful

00:26:43.359 --> 00:26:45.619
um christening gown in our family which has been

00:26:45.619 --> 00:26:48.160
handed down many generations i think from my

00:26:48.160 --> 00:26:50.319
second great -grandparents so okay that's the

00:26:50.319 --> 00:26:54.809
second half of the 1800s but when our babies

00:26:54.809 --> 00:26:56.470
got baptized we got them baptized when they're

00:26:56.470 --> 00:26:58.609
six months old and they actually couldn't fit

00:26:58.609 --> 00:27:01.309
into this little tiny dress I just had to drape

00:27:01.309 --> 00:27:03.029
a shawl around the back and they were like wedged

00:27:03.029 --> 00:27:05.390
into it because the christening gown was designed

00:27:05.390 --> 00:27:07.650
for a three -month -old baby yeah but I wanted

00:27:07.650 --> 00:27:09.529
them to wear it because it was so cute and so

00:27:09.529 --> 00:27:13.170
like family history and historic and also because

00:27:13.170 --> 00:27:15.630
you needed to be baptized to ensure that your

00:27:15.630 --> 00:27:18.910
soul could go to heaven yeah and you could if

00:27:18.910 --> 00:27:22.160
you were to die very young and You don't have

00:27:22.160 --> 00:27:24.319
to get buried in an unconsecrated part of the

00:27:24.319 --> 00:27:26.359
churchyard. So there's lots of complicated reasons

00:27:26.359 --> 00:27:30.119
why somebody is highly motivated to baptise their

00:27:30.119 --> 00:27:33.099
children, babies when they're very young. So

00:27:33.099 --> 00:27:35.660
that means that the baptism date is going to

00:27:35.660 --> 00:27:38.339
give a closer indicator of when somebody's actually

00:27:38.339 --> 00:27:42.240
born, most likely than a census. But it's all

00:27:42.240 --> 00:27:44.180
to play for. You have to keep thinking all these

00:27:44.180 --> 00:27:46.539
thoughts the whole time. Right. OK, cool. That's

00:27:46.539 --> 00:27:48.559
really good to know. Got to keep your wits about

00:27:48.559 --> 00:27:53.190
you. You do. You do. And it is a fun thing. It

00:27:53.190 --> 00:27:55.690
does make you kind of slap your head at loads

00:27:55.690 --> 00:27:58.029
of moments with family history, doesn't it? I

00:27:58.029 --> 00:27:59.950
can't believe I forgot to think about that aspect.

00:28:00.690 --> 00:28:03.809
Yeah. It's just terrifying when I'm clearly just

00:28:03.809 --> 00:28:06.289
stumbling on easy things like people's names

00:28:06.289 --> 00:28:08.210
and then you've got to factor in all these little

00:28:08.210 --> 00:28:10.769
variables that I didn't even know about. I can

00:28:10.769 --> 00:28:14.750
remember. Yes. Don't do family history when you're

00:28:14.750 --> 00:28:16.609
tired. Make sure you've got a nice cup of coffee

00:28:16.609 --> 00:28:18.799
with you. And you're fully alert. That's that's

00:28:18.799 --> 00:28:20.980
my new mantra. I'm going to delete my mission

00:28:20.980 --> 00:28:26.200
statement and make it caffeine based. Or you

00:28:26.200 --> 00:28:29.140
could do that. There's lots of other lovely aspects

00:28:29.140 --> 00:28:31.000
of family history. And this can be a really fun

00:28:31.000 --> 00:28:33.599
thing to do. If you if you kind of have lost

00:28:33.599 --> 00:28:36.819
your research like fire for the moment and you're

00:28:36.819 --> 00:28:40.339
just feeling a bit confused or a bit daunted

00:28:40.339 --> 00:28:43.039
or whatever it is, just, you know, reading about

00:28:43.039 --> 00:28:46.250
the local area. So just. Even just Googling local

00:28:46.250 --> 00:28:49.289
history to find out about Calverley in the area

00:28:49.289 --> 00:28:51.670
and Pudsey, you know, over the last few centuries

00:28:51.670 --> 00:28:54.390
from the 1700 onwards. You're going to learn

00:28:54.390 --> 00:28:57.589
loads of interesting things. Yeah. Searching

00:28:57.589 --> 00:28:59.829
through old newspapers for the local history,

00:28:59.950 --> 00:29:03.109
looking at maps. I think my problem is I get

00:29:03.109 --> 00:29:04.930
a bit jealous listening to you telling me your

00:29:04.930 --> 00:29:07.430
stories because you've got such good history

00:29:07.430 --> 00:29:10.269
knowledge that you can put everything into a

00:29:10.269 --> 00:29:13.029
context and a place and a time and it all just

00:29:13.029 --> 00:29:14.970
sounds wonderful. I'm like, these are great stories

00:29:14.970 --> 00:29:18.769
and then I'm just like, this man had a baby and

00:29:18.769 --> 00:29:21.809
then they died and then this baby had some babies

00:29:21.809 --> 00:29:25.569
and I've got nothing. I've got no texture. I

00:29:25.569 --> 00:29:29.519
need to add texture. Yes. So, well, thank you.

00:29:29.539 --> 00:29:31.619
I think I'm actually a really forgetful person.

00:29:31.720 --> 00:29:33.880
I do love trying to find out about the historical

00:29:33.880 --> 00:29:36.759
context and it does really, really, it makes

00:29:36.759 --> 00:29:39.819
so much more sense to everything once you know

00:29:39.819 --> 00:29:42.079
it. It brings the story alive, doesn't it? Yeah.

00:29:42.220 --> 00:29:44.619
It really does. Because otherwise it's like watching

00:29:44.619 --> 00:29:47.700
a period movie and then they haven't got, not

00:29:47.700 --> 00:29:48.900
that they haven't got any costumes on because

00:29:48.900 --> 00:29:50.779
they'd be naked, but they're just not wearing,

00:29:50.839 --> 00:29:52.980
they're wearing present day clothes. It's a bit

00:29:52.980 --> 00:29:54.880
trendy, but you much prefer, well, I prefer to

00:29:54.880 --> 00:29:56.579
see them in the period clothing so I can really

00:29:56.579 --> 00:29:59.039
see it brought to life. So you need to learn

00:29:59.039 --> 00:30:01.279
all of this stuff or try and, even little bits,

00:30:01.279 --> 00:30:03.500
the smallest nuggets can help with that. And

00:30:03.500 --> 00:30:05.400
there's really, there's like one thing you could

00:30:05.400 --> 00:30:09.400
do and you could even do it for free. Find a

00:30:09.400 --> 00:30:12.779
trade directory, which includes... um your ancestors

00:30:12.779 --> 00:30:17.059
village and so these are like um the like the

00:30:17.059 --> 00:30:19.500
phone book the phone book equivalent but going

00:30:19.500 --> 00:30:22.940
back in the day in the 1700s and 1800s and so

00:30:22.940 --> 00:30:25.700
you find their parish covered and in there it'll

00:30:25.700 --> 00:30:28.180
have all sorts of juicy little nuggets it'll

00:30:28.180 --> 00:30:32.119
say things like um who the local bigwigs are

00:30:32.119 --> 00:30:35.460
so the prestigious people in the community listed

00:30:35.460 --> 00:30:37.380
up at the top normally and then it will have

00:30:37.380 --> 00:30:40.299
things like what day market day is it'll say

00:30:40.299 --> 00:30:43.299
what day there are carriers so carriers are the

00:30:43.299 --> 00:30:46.319
people who would um literally transport things

00:30:46.319 --> 00:30:50.720
so like um like dpd for but for back in the day

00:30:50.720 --> 00:30:53.380
so they would take things from your village to

00:30:53.380 --> 00:30:55.319
the nearest big town for market or they would

00:30:55.319 --> 00:30:57.359
collect things from the nearest big town and

00:30:57.359 --> 00:31:00.299
bring them back to you yeah and so you'll find

00:31:00.299 --> 00:31:01.740
people their job is a carrier they'll just be

00:31:01.740 --> 00:31:03.680
taking things once a week to the local big town

00:31:03.680 --> 00:31:08.940
or bring back um you'll find what days the um

00:31:08.940 --> 00:31:11.640
post i forgot what it's called now but you know

00:31:11.640 --> 00:31:15.099
the the post what's it called post chase you

00:31:15.099 --> 00:31:17.819
know the the really speedy royal mail um and

00:31:17.819 --> 00:31:20.759
early post wagons which had to fly along the

00:31:20.759 --> 00:31:23.539
bumpy old tracks very dangerously at high speed

00:31:23.539 --> 00:31:25.359
to carry everyone's letters around the country

00:31:25.359 --> 00:31:27.240
you'll find what days they're going to be arriving

00:31:28.840 --> 00:31:31.759
you'll find just lists of people potentially

00:31:31.759 --> 00:31:34.140
with their occupations, but not going to be everybody.

00:31:34.240 --> 00:31:35.660
It's going to be people who are working on their

00:31:35.660 --> 00:31:39.039
own account on the whole. So if you were working

00:31:39.039 --> 00:31:42.119
as a milliner or in a hat shop or something like

00:31:42.119 --> 00:31:44.859
that, or you're owning a hat shop or you're selling

00:31:44.859 --> 00:31:47.440
coal or you're making umbrellas or whatever it

00:31:47.440 --> 00:31:49.319
is, all sorts of people, you'll find out about

00:31:49.319 --> 00:31:50.839
them. And it doesn't even matter if you don't

00:31:50.839 --> 00:31:53.049
find your ancestor. listed because what you'll

00:31:53.049 --> 00:31:56.029
learn is that you'll learn that in calverley

00:31:56.029 --> 00:32:00.170
in the late 1800s either it's a deeply non -conformist

00:32:00.170 --> 00:32:02.309
area and there's no pubs and there's lots of

00:32:02.309 --> 00:32:06.230
um like places of sobriety that people can go

00:32:06.230 --> 00:32:08.029
and get entertained or you'll learn that there's

00:32:08.029 --> 00:32:12.329
17 pubs in a tiny community of like 1700 people

00:32:12.329 --> 00:32:15.269
and so you get funny little insights it's so

00:32:15.269 --> 00:32:18.960
so different yeah that you don't even know Yeah,

00:32:19.019 --> 00:32:21.180
I guess maybe doing some local family history

00:32:21.180 --> 00:32:24.200
would actually benefit me as well, because I

00:32:24.200 --> 00:32:27.220
am literally in this area and I am running around

00:32:27.220 --> 00:32:29.140
all these places. So it would actually be like

00:32:29.140 --> 00:32:32.839
interesting to understand why and where. Like

00:32:32.839 --> 00:32:34.980
there's a section called the Calver Cutting,

00:32:35.000 --> 00:32:38.359
which is like it's a very steep path and it's

00:32:38.359 --> 00:32:40.460
got like bridges over it. It goes through the

00:32:40.460 --> 00:32:43.200
woods. It's been carved out. And initially I

00:32:43.200 --> 00:32:44.700
thought, oh, maybe there was a train that went

00:32:44.700 --> 00:32:46.579
under there. But there isn't. It was some sort

00:32:46.579 --> 00:32:49.680
of. stagecoach track or something. Stagecoach,

00:32:49.720 --> 00:32:52.240
that was the word I was looking for. You've got

00:32:52.240 --> 00:32:56.200
that. There's loads I don't know and I'm so forgetful.

00:32:56.880 --> 00:32:59.079
You know so much, it's embarrassing how much

00:32:59.079 --> 00:33:01.680
you know. It's like, oh my gosh. No, it's worth

00:33:01.680 --> 00:33:04.359
reading. I think your local history project is

00:33:04.359 --> 00:33:06.859
great. Yeah, well, because then hopefully I'll

00:33:06.859 --> 00:33:08.160
have an interest because I've got an excuse to

00:33:08.160 --> 00:33:09.799
go wandering around and look for these places.

00:33:10.559 --> 00:33:13.700
Yes. I guess it's an evolution of the family

00:33:13.700 --> 00:33:15.829
history aspect though for me, isn't it? I'm not

00:33:15.829 --> 00:33:17.509
just looking for people. Suddenly I'm learning

00:33:17.509 --> 00:33:20.269
about history. And I've not bridged that gap

00:33:20.269 --> 00:33:22.230
yet. I think I'm at that point. I think that's

00:33:22.230 --> 00:33:24.329
where my frustration is coming from. I need to

00:33:24.329 --> 00:33:26.970
step forward and become a historian. And even

00:33:26.970 --> 00:33:29.109
just wandering around your village with your

00:33:29.109 --> 00:33:31.819
family history or your local history. hat on

00:33:31.819 --> 00:33:34.240
you'll suddenly realize there's so many points

00:33:34.240 --> 00:33:36.059
of interest so you know when i said about the

00:33:36.059 --> 00:33:39.200
places of worship but then through the 1800s

00:33:39.200 --> 00:33:41.880
then loads of non -conformist places of worship

00:33:41.880 --> 00:33:44.259
sprang up but then in the intervening time we've

00:33:44.259 --> 00:33:47.259
become a much more secular society so lots of

00:33:47.259 --> 00:33:49.960
places of worship have been sold off and have

00:33:49.960 --> 00:33:54.140
made into very charming homes now to lucky people

00:33:54.140 --> 00:33:57.460
who live there so but going around your local

00:33:57.460 --> 00:33:59.480
community you can suddenly realize that there's

00:33:59.799 --> 00:34:02.619
quite a lot of places of worship you know or

00:34:02.619 --> 00:34:05.099
there's quite a lot of pubs which you'll find

00:34:05.099 --> 00:34:07.700
from um sometimes once you know there's been

00:34:07.700 --> 00:34:09.760
a pub they go oh clearly there was a pub there

00:34:09.760 --> 00:34:11.440
looking at the architecture of that house that's

00:34:11.440 --> 00:34:14.039
clearly used to be a pub or houses which have

00:34:14.039 --> 00:34:16.179
very big plate glass windows at the front and

00:34:16.179 --> 00:34:18.880
the way the steps are in up you're like yeah

00:34:18.880 --> 00:34:21.599
clearly that used to be a shop and it's fascinating

00:34:21.599 --> 00:34:23.440
and then you'll be able to see these in the trade

00:34:23.440 --> 00:34:26.179
directories just said you could get free so there's

00:34:26.179 --> 00:34:29.349
a website and it's run by the university of leicester

00:34:29.349 --> 00:34:32.550
it's really good for english and welsh trade

00:34:32.550 --> 00:34:34.829
directories and so you can go on there so you're

00:34:34.829 --> 00:34:37.050
not going to find a trade directory for calverley

00:34:37.050 --> 00:34:40.210
um you're going to be looking it'll be like this

00:34:40.210 --> 00:34:42.230
is my geography so rubbish anything but you'll

00:34:42.230 --> 00:34:44.110
be looking for a trade directory of yorkshire

00:34:44.110 --> 00:34:47.989
and then the places will be listed in there alphabetically

00:34:47.989 --> 00:34:51.010
and it could be that calverley um is too small

00:34:51.010 --> 00:34:52.550
so you need to go for the next biggest place

00:34:52.550 --> 00:34:54.889
yeah but it depends it might be mentioned hopefully

00:34:54.889 --> 00:34:57.679
it would be mentioned The church is definitely

00:34:57.679 --> 00:35:01.420
a hub for the local area, like not just the village.

00:35:01.920 --> 00:35:05.099
Everybody seemingly came to Carver to get married.

00:35:05.519 --> 00:35:07.480
That's a good sign then, it's a big enough place,

00:35:07.679 --> 00:35:10.800
yeah. We will see. All right, well, that will

00:35:10.800 --> 00:35:14.239
be some challenge for me. It's a good time of

00:35:14.239 --> 00:35:17.739
year to get out and explore things. It is, it

00:35:17.739 --> 00:35:27.940
is, it's nice. I'll stop ranting now. What have

00:35:27.940 --> 00:35:31.400
you been up to? Well, do you know, it's contagious.

00:35:31.619 --> 00:35:33.800
To be fair to us, anyone who's listening, it

00:35:33.800 --> 00:35:35.820
is very busy at work. So we are a little bit

00:35:35.820 --> 00:35:39.199
tired. So my problem is, what I love is normally

00:35:39.199 --> 00:35:40.760
I start every day with a bit of family history

00:35:40.760 --> 00:35:43.599
and I'm sitting in bed doing family history,

00:35:43.739 --> 00:35:45.840
drinking a cup of tea. But I keep being so tired

00:35:45.840 --> 00:35:47.739
at the moment that I miss my family history window.

00:35:47.860 --> 00:35:50.579
So tragically, this week, I've done no family

00:35:50.579 --> 00:35:53.659
history myself. I have been having a good family

00:35:53.659 --> 00:35:57.239
history time. wherever i can sneak a moment through

00:35:57.239 --> 00:35:59.340
the rest of the day but it's not i'm not able

00:35:59.340 --> 00:36:01.019
to actually get my hands on my own family tree

00:36:01.019 --> 00:36:04.239
so i have been having fun which sounds awful

00:36:04.239 --> 00:36:06.300
i've been having a fascinating time rather than

00:36:06.300 --> 00:36:09.940
fun listening to jen baldwin's um a family history

00:36:09.940 --> 00:36:13.099
of podcasts about the orange potato famine i

00:36:13.099 --> 00:36:15.920
mean it is heartbreaking but it's so i think

00:36:15.920 --> 00:36:18.380
it's valuable listening for anybody and they

00:36:18.380 --> 00:36:21.260
just tell it so evocatively and interestingly

00:36:22.159 --> 00:36:25.280
She does it with Fiona Fitzsimmons. And then

00:36:25.280 --> 00:36:28.340
what else have I been doing? I went to a really

00:36:28.340 --> 00:36:30.699
cool conference recently and I met some people

00:36:30.699 --> 00:36:32.639
who I normally only see on a little tiny screen.

00:36:32.840 --> 00:36:35.820
So that was very exciting. I met the wonderful

00:36:35.820 --> 00:36:39.300
John Cleary, who sometimes does talks for Family

00:36:39.300 --> 00:36:44.239
Tree Plus and Dr. Sophie Kay and Professor Rebecca

00:36:44.239 --> 00:36:47.840
Probert. dr pennywalters they all sound very

00:36:47.840 --> 00:36:49.219
academic they are actually quite a lot of academic

00:36:49.219 --> 00:36:52.739
people um and lots of other family history friends

00:36:52.739 --> 00:36:54.679
some new people who i'm hoping we're going to

00:36:54.679 --> 00:36:56.940
see their articles coming through in family tree

00:36:56.940 --> 00:37:00.260
in the coming months so that was exciting by

00:37:00.260 --> 00:37:02.599
the end of the day my voice was croaking because

00:37:02.599 --> 00:37:06.599
of um too much family history chat is there such

00:37:06.599 --> 00:37:09.420
a thing i don't know but yeah you just need to

00:37:09.420 --> 00:37:12.539
start yeah having a drink or something to yeah

00:37:12.539 --> 00:37:14.760
help me away so that was fun what else have i

00:37:14.760 --> 00:37:16.800
been doing oh and then we're working on this

00:37:16.800 --> 00:37:20.500
um lovely publication which we've done for the

00:37:20.500 --> 00:37:22.440
last quite a few years now called start your

00:37:22.440 --> 00:37:25.460
family tree and so i've been going through that

00:37:25.460 --> 00:37:28.489
and updating everything and it's amazing even

00:37:28.489 --> 00:37:31.570
within one year just how websites change themselves

00:37:31.570 --> 00:37:35.550
little tools that were available evolve or new

00:37:35.550 --> 00:37:38.170
ones come into being so I've been having a lot

00:37:38.170 --> 00:37:42.190
of fun doing that in the process I was reading

00:37:42.190 --> 00:37:43.670
through the family search how to build a family

00:37:43.670 --> 00:37:46.730
tree on family search articles checking that

00:37:46.730 --> 00:37:49.030
everything was as it was and it has changed a

00:37:49.030 --> 00:37:52.429
little bit and just to get an example I went

00:37:52.429 --> 00:37:55.760
to look at my great granny and I had thought

00:37:55.760 --> 00:37:58.840
in the past, I always say about how I love the

00:37:58.840 --> 00:38:01.099
fact that I can sync my Ancestry tree and my

00:38:01.099 --> 00:38:03.340
Family Tree Maker tree. I still love that. And

00:38:03.340 --> 00:38:05.320
I'd always wished I could sync my Family Search

00:38:05.320 --> 00:38:08.320
tree with my Family Tree Maker tree. Now I am

00:38:08.320 --> 00:38:10.940
so pleased I don't. Because on the Family Search

00:38:10.940 --> 00:38:13.420
tree, other people can edit your tree, which

00:38:13.420 --> 00:38:15.780
is good and bad. It's nice. It's collaborative.

00:38:16.039 --> 00:38:18.599
So that's nice. That's team spirit. But it does

00:38:18.599 --> 00:38:20.800
mean that not just you can make errors. Somebody

00:38:20.800 --> 00:38:23.889
else can make errors. You know, I'm terrified

00:38:23.889 --> 00:38:26.889
right now. My great granny now has three siblings.

00:38:27.010 --> 00:38:29.849
And she honestly, honestly, honestly didn't have

00:38:29.849 --> 00:38:32.929
three siblings. And it was always like the tragic

00:38:32.929 --> 00:38:36.010
story that her mum had had my great granny. And

00:38:36.010 --> 00:38:38.650
then there were complications and she wasn't

00:38:38.650 --> 00:38:41.829
able to have any more children. And so that was

00:38:41.829 --> 00:38:44.889
something we all got brought up knowing. I knew

00:38:44.889 --> 00:38:47.090
my great granny died when I was 22. So I was

00:38:47.090 --> 00:38:50.030
hugely lucky to know her for a big chunk of my

00:38:50.030 --> 00:38:53.679
life, my early decades. our family's fairly close

00:38:53.679 --> 00:38:56.059
so we'd see each other quite often there just

00:38:56.059 --> 00:38:58.219
weren't any other siblings around there's no

00:38:58.219 --> 00:39:01.880
they don't exist so now I was just like a bit

00:39:01.880 --> 00:39:05.119
shocked about that and so I didn't want to just

00:39:05.119 --> 00:39:08.179
and also that those the siblings have been on

00:39:08.179 --> 00:39:10.059
the tree to my shame I haven't checked my family

00:39:10.059 --> 00:39:13.639
such tree as often as I should do about 10 months

00:39:13.639 --> 00:39:18.119
like all right so I think I need to add a note

00:39:18.119 --> 00:39:21.230
to say I think these are the wrong people I don't

00:39:21.230 --> 00:39:24.349
like this. This is awful. Like, what if you're

00:39:24.349 --> 00:39:25.949
doing really diligent work and then somebody

00:39:25.949 --> 00:39:29.110
comes and completely changes your tree? Well,

00:39:29.170 --> 00:39:32.489
I think the thing is, FamilySearch is such a

00:39:32.489 --> 00:39:35.070
great organisation and it does so much for the

00:39:35.070 --> 00:39:37.690
family history world. It doesn't just support

00:39:37.690 --> 00:39:39.690
the family history world, it invents loads of

00:39:39.690 --> 00:39:42.690
aspects of the family history world. It's such

00:39:42.690 --> 00:39:46.170
a kind of pioneering organisation. So I think

00:39:46.170 --> 00:39:48.670
it's good to do your family tree on FamilySearch.

00:39:49.130 --> 00:39:51.469
Partly to kind of pay back and support the growing

00:39:51.469 --> 00:39:53.369
of a massive global family tree. That's such

00:39:53.369 --> 00:39:56.670
an amazing human endeavour, isn't it? Yeah. But

00:39:56.670 --> 00:39:58.849
then don't just have it on FamilySearch. Have

00:39:58.849 --> 00:40:00.610
it somewhere else as well. That's what I'd say.

00:40:00.969 --> 00:40:04.329
Yeah. I'm not sure it's for me. Nathan doesn't

00:40:04.329 --> 00:40:08.170
share. But it is fun sharing as well, though.

00:40:08.530 --> 00:40:13.550
Yeah. You know, it's making me sweaty. Yeah.

00:40:13.869 --> 00:40:17.440
So that's my kind of... recent discovery so I

00:40:17.440 --> 00:40:20.539
think that's also interesting so last week I

00:40:20.539 --> 00:40:22.760
realized I had loads of major mistakes this week

00:40:22.760 --> 00:40:26.099
you've realized you've made some mistakes and

00:40:26.099 --> 00:40:28.119
this week I've also realized that somebody else

00:40:28.119 --> 00:40:30.820
has made some mistakes and so I think we probably

00:40:30.820 --> 00:40:33.599
all need to keep that in mind that we're doing

00:40:33.599 --> 00:40:37.139
the best we can and even if we put a lot of work

00:40:37.139 --> 00:40:39.119
into something sometimes we have to acknowledge

00:40:39.119 --> 00:40:42.599
that it might be a mistake and yeah and you really

00:40:42.599 --> 00:40:44.000
do and you've got to be careful what you say

00:40:44.000 --> 00:40:46.320
because I think last week I was like I wasn't

00:40:46.320 --> 00:40:48.019
bragging, but I was saying how I do diligent

00:40:48.019 --> 00:40:50.719
research. I don't put things on my tree unless

00:40:50.719 --> 00:40:53.480
I'm 100 % sure. And then this week I've just

00:40:53.480 --> 00:40:57.159
been like, yeah, yeah. Thomas Turner, he sounds

00:40:57.159 --> 00:41:00.719
cool. Yeah, go on my tree. Naughty, very naughty.

00:41:02.000 --> 00:41:05.699
But you spotted it and you've corrected it. I

00:41:05.699 --> 00:41:09.019
think we've got the makings of a new subdivision

00:41:09.019 --> 00:41:11.860
of our company here. Family Tree Coffee Shop.

00:41:12.760 --> 00:41:16.360
We sell extra strong family tree coffee. Yes.

00:41:16.860 --> 00:41:19.860
I'm well up for this idea. I think that's brilliant.

00:41:20.300 --> 00:41:23.320
Yes. But you know, when you open up your family

00:41:23.320 --> 00:41:25.639
tree, then it could say, have you had enough

00:41:25.639 --> 00:41:28.780
coffee yet to be working on your family tree?

00:41:29.280 --> 00:41:32.500
How wide open are your eyes right now? You have

00:41:32.500 --> 00:41:33.739
to measure it. And if they're not wide enough,

00:41:33.800 --> 00:41:35.099
you've got to go have another cup of coffee.

00:41:36.219 --> 00:41:38.000
So, you know, I just was mentioning family search.

00:41:38.099 --> 00:41:42.940
So that's the kind of the web face of the Church

00:41:42.940 --> 00:41:46.159
of Latter -day Saints. And so they are the people

00:41:46.159 --> 00:41:48.579
who put the kind of energy and resources into

00:41:48.579 --> 00:41:52.699
enabling such great access to free online family

00:41:52.699 --> 00:41:56.159
history records via family search. But as part

00:41:56.159 --> 00:41:59.699
of their religion, then they are not allowed

00:41:59.699 --> 00:42:02.969
to. drink any stimulants. They're not allowed

00:42:02.969 --> 00:42:04.690
to drink any tea or coffee. So they do amazing

00:42:04.690 --> 00:42:08.110
family history just without the caffeine. Pure

00:42:08.110 --> 00:42:10.829
energy of their own. More energy and good thoughts.

00:42:11.090 --> 00:42:16.289
Oh, wow. Yeah. If we're mere mortals, we're going

00:42:16.289 --> 00:42:18.329
to be drinking the coffee. I'm drinking the coffee.

00:42:21.519 --> 00:42:24.059
I did make a tiny little start on what I was

00:42:24.059 --> 00:42:26.559
hoping to do was I was going to do a fan project.

00:42:26.659 --> 00:42:29.480
So I was going to find not quite. So fan project

00:42:29.480 --> 00:42:30.920
is when you find the friends, associates and

00:42:30.920 --> 00:42:32.099
neighbours. I wasn't going to do that, but I

00:42:32.099 --> 00:42:35.599
was going to find two generations of siblings

00:42:35.599 --> 00:42:39.340
and track their migration because that was really

00:42:39.340 --> 00:42:41.460
interesting to me. So I made a slight start on

00:42:41.460 --> 00:42:43.980
that, but I haven't progressed that. So I think

00:42:43.980 --> 00:42:45.239
for me, that's what I'm going to be doing this

00:42:45.239 --> 00:42:49.119
week. Picking that up again. obviously last week

00:42:49.119 --> 00:42:53.139
i was talking about my um oh my god clifford

00:42:53.139 --> 00:42:58.119
who died in a motorcycle accident i might go

00:42:58.119 --> 00:42:59.760
to the newspapers and see if i can find something

00:42:59.760 --> 00:43:01.599
on that because that's that's something that

00:43:01.599 --> 00:43:03.639
i've not done and that sounds like quite an easy

00:43:03.639 --> 00:43:06.340
research to i say easy it's it's something i

00:43:06.340 --> 00:43:08.599
can try quite easily shall i say when i find

00:43:08.599 --> 00:43:11.179
something another question i think that might

00:43:11.179 --> 00:43:14.900
be good it might expand my horizons a bit What

00:43:14.900 --> 00:43:16.400
I'd really like to do, I don't know why I'm having

00:43:16.400 --> 00:43:18.440
this thought now, it'd be quite cool if I had

00:43:18.440 --> 00:43:20.179
somebody else in the village with a different

00:43:20.179 --> 00:43:22.139
family that was also doing their family tree

00:43:22.139 --> 00:43:24.679
research and we could cross -reference lives,

00:43:24.860 --> 00:43:29.599
like build the community. You know, like, oh,

00:43:29.619 --> 00:43:31.940
did our ancestors interact? That would make it

00:43:31.940 --> 00:43:33.900
easier to do this sort of historical aspect.

00:43:34.400 --> 00:43:36.500
I'm just waffling now. Clearly I need more coffee.

00:43:36.820 --> 00:43:38.559
No, you're not waffling. I think that's a lovely

00:43:38.559 --> 00:43:41.349
idea. Obviously, there'll be your local family

00:43:41.349 --> 00:43:43.409
history society, but they're probably not local

00:43:43.409 --> 00:43:46.110
enough. What you want is like you have a microbrewery.

00:43:46.110 --> 00:43:49.110
You want the microbrewery equivalent of a family

00:43:49.110 --> 00:43:51.789
history society just for your village, the people

00:43:51.789 --> 00:43:54.190
in your village. Well, there is. I think there

00:43:54.190 --> 00:43:57.809
might be one because Helen, who I run with, she's

00:43:57.809 --> 00:43:59.809
been mentioned previously on the podcast. She

00:43:59.809 --> 00:44:02.210
sent me a link to some sort of Carver -based

00:44:02.210 --> 00:44:04.170
history society, and it is quite in -depth and

00:44:04.170 --> 00:44:06.710
interesting. So maybe there is one. I need to

00:44:06.710 --> 00:44:09.269
explore this a bit further. And even if it's

00:44:09.269 --> 00:44:11.489
a local history society, that doesn't matter.

00:44:11.530 --> 00:44:14.030
That could be just what you need. Yeah. Yeah.

00:44:14.829 --> 00:44:17.570
That's in fact, that could almost be more useful

00:44:17.570 --> 00:44:20.389
to you because you're very fortunate that you

00:44:20.389 --> 00:44:22.929
have lots of Calvary ancestors, whereas many

00:44:22.929 --> 00:44:26.849
of us keep. um transiting like the whole time

00:44:26.849 --> 00:44:29.590
so you could find a family history buddy in calverley

00:44:29.590 --> 00:44:31.969
today but their ancestors let's say i was your

00:44:31.969 --> 00:44:34.269
family history buddy in calverley today would

00:44:34.269 --> 00:44:35.730
be no help to you at all because i would have

00:44:35.730 --> 00:44:39.070
no calverley ancestors apart from me um whereas

00:44:39.070 --> 00:44:41.289
if you go to calverley local history society

00:44:41.289 --> 00:44:43.550
or whatever they call themselves i just don't

00:44:43.550 --> 00:44:46.730
know the official name but that sort of organization

00:44:46.730 --> 00:44:48.710
they're going to have a wealth of information

00:44:48.710 --> 00:44:51.710
that is only relating to calverley it's going

00:44:51.710 --> 00:44:54.849
to be brilliant yeah yeah definitely It's just

00:44:54.849 --> 00:44:58.309
finding that hook to get me in, like a date range

00:44:58.309 --> 00:45:00.849
to make me go, right, okay, I'll go in. Obviously,

00:45:00.909 --> 00:45:02.730
clearly, I've got lots of date ranges because

00:45:02.730 --> 00:45:05.449
everybody seems to be about it. Even like some

00:45:05.449 --> 00:45:08.289
of the ones I was researching last week, I'm

00:45:08.289 --> 00:45:11.250
in the 1700s and then you look on the census

00:45:11.250 --> 00:45:14.690
and it's, oh, 18, must be the 1851 census and

00:45:14.690 --> 00:45:17.210
they've moved to Calvary. It's like, how is this

00:45:17.210 --> 00:45:21.309
still happening like 200 years back? It always

00:45:21.309 --> 00:45:22.869
shocks me that there's still gravity towards

00:45:22.869 --> 00:45:27.190
this village. It's weird. Fun. OK, we're going

00:45:27.190 --> 00:45:30.090
to have a fun week. Yes, I will endeavour to

00:45:30.090 --> 00:45:32.610
do something positive and proactive. Well, I

00:45:32.610 --> 00:45:34.130
think if you get good weather at the weekend,

00:45:34.210 --> 00:45:37.010
that sketch of the gravestone is lovely. And

00:45:37.010 --> 00:45:38.989
that kind of ties in with the vibe of exploring

00:45:38.989 --> 00:45:44.650
the locality. So your local history society investigations

00:45:44.650 --> 00:45:47.030
to find out who they are and what they do. That

00:45:47.030 --> 00:45:50.789
could be cool. Yeah. I don't think I'm going

00:45:50.789 --> 00:45:54.130
to get out anywhere. I've got two more weeks

00:45:54.130 --> 00:45:56.869
of marathon training and then I'm free. So I

00:45:56.869 --> 00:45:58.849
think that might be when I start doing my exploring

00:45:58.849 --> 00:46:02.889
and adventuring. I think maybe investigating

00:46:02.889 --> 00:46:06.369
this website about Calvary. And the newspaper

00:46:06.369 --> 00:46:11.329
reports. Just quick wins, I think. Like you're

00:46:11.329 --> 00:46:13.889
saying, we are busy and you only need a couple

00:46:13.889 --> 00:46:16.670
of hours a week really to get yourself going,

00:46:16.789 --> 00:46:19.960
don't you? You do, because when you do research,

00:46:20.019 --> 00:46:22.599
you do do research while you're sitting there

00:46:22.599 --> 00:46:24.239
in front of your computer or if you're lucky

00:46:24.239 --> 00:46:26.460
enough to go to an archive. But it also just

00:46:26.460 --> 00:46:28.400
chunters around in your head the rest of the

00:46:28.400 --> 00:46:30.860
time while you try and work things out and work

00:46:30.860 --> 00:46:33.639
out what you want to do next. So it makes your

00:46:33.639 --> 00:46:36.900
head have a fun time in any spare moments, even

00:46:36.900 --> 00:46:39.159
when you're not actually actively sitting in

00:46:39.159 --> 00:46:42.860
front of a census record. But it's good to have

00:46:42.860 --> 00:46:44.679
that urge to want to go back and do things and,

00:46:44.719 --> 00:46:47.079
oh, I'll just explore this. But if I could just

00:46:47.079 --> 00:46:49.980
dedicate that time, which I can, it's just been

00:46:49.980 --> 00:46:52.340
sensible about it and just feeling like I'm making

00:46:52.340 --> 00:46:56.219
some progress. And I am making progress. I don't

00:46:56.219 --> 00:46:57.760
know why I'm being miserable about this. It's

00:46:57.760 --> 00:47:01.059
just I've been locked in facts, figures and numbers.

00:47:01.860 --> 00:47:05.920
I'm ready for texture. Well, I think I've said

00:47:05.920 --> 00:47:07.360
it before, but I mean, you literally are doing

00:47:07.360 --> 00:47:09.519
amazingly, Nathan, that how many people, how

00:47:09.519 --> 00:47:11.719
many generations back you found, how thorough

00:47:11.719 --> 00:47:14.599
you've been. Yeah. Yeah. Until this last week

00:47:14.599 --> 00:47:16.699
where I'm just willy nilly putting anybody on

00:47:16.699 --> 00:47:23.920
the tree. Naughty. Yes, it is naughty. I haven't

00:47:23.920 --> 00:47:25.320
really done that. I've obviously done it once.

00:47:25.800 --> 00:47:27.719
I've hated myself for the rest of my life now.

00:47:27.840 --> 00:47:30.480
But yeah. Yes. Because you're a perfectionist

00:47:30.480 --> 00:47:32.960
probably, isn't it? Yeah. It's a lesson learned

00:47:32.960 --> 00:47:36.070
as well. It's like. Stick to your guns, do what

00:47:36.070 --> 00:47:40.710
you know works for you, and go for it. Yes, and

00:47:40.710 --> 00:47:44.070
in the Helen Tovey school of hard knocks, then

00:47:44.070 --> 00:47:46.090
I'm going to say another thing you won't like,

00:47:46.170 --> 00:47:49.309
but just don't be deterred by it. You will make

00:47:49.309 --> 00:47:53.650
more mistakes, yes? Oh, definitely. I can see

00:47:53.650 --> 00:47:55.710
it happening all the time, yeah. Yeah, but just

00:47:55.710 --> 00:47:59.349
correcting them and learning from them and keeping

00:47:59.349 --> 00:48:01.630
going. It's like a life lesson, isn't it? It

00:48:01.630 --> 00:48:05.619
is. Not just you, I will as well. And I feel

00:48:05.619 --> 00:48:08.619
like I'm now at the point where when I'm trying

00:48:08.619 --> 00:48:12.119
to go back, I actually have to spend some time

00:48:12.119 --> 00:48:16.880
with the closer generations again first, just

00:48:16.880 --> 00:48:19.860
to really familiarise myself with names and dates

00:48:19.860 --> 00:48:21.820
and numbers that I've obviously forgotten because

00:48:21.820 --> 00:48:25.380
I've left them for a while. So it feels like

00:48:25.380 --> 00:48:27.380
more of an investment if I'm going to go down

00:48:27.380 --> 00:48:30.980
a line, whereas earlier on it was like... bang,

00:48:30.980 --> 00:48:32.440
bang, bang, you pick up all these facts quite

00:48:32.440 --> 00:48:35.739
quickly. Now it's like, right, I need to be diligent

00:48:35.739 --> 00:48:38.159
and know the names of the children and the sisters

00:48:38.159 --> 00:48:41.960
and flesh it out a bit more before I actually

00:48:41.960 --> 00:48:44.320
commit to that, yes, this person's on my tree

00:48:44.320 --> 00:48:49.380
button. That's it. That's good. So have fun,

00:48:49.380 --> 00:48:52.659
everybody, over the coming week. Do drop us a

00:48:52.659 --> 00:48:55.360
line and let us know what you're getting up to.

00:48:56.030 --> 00:48:57.909
Even if you're brave enough, if you've made a

00:48:57.909 --> 00:49:00.130
mistake and you've spotted it and you've corrected

00:49:00.130 --> 00:49:02.329
it, we'd love to hear what your mistake was,

00:49:02.449 --> 00:49:05.269
why you made it and what you did to correct it.

00:49:05.550 --> 00:49:08.090
Because that's such a useful learning lesson

00:49:08.090 --> 00:49:10.789
for all of us. It's a tough way to learn, but

00:49:10.789 --> 00:49:12.230
it's a really good way to learn. Never forget

00:49:12.230 --> 00:49:16.230
those lessons. Indeed. Always make sure to ask

00:49:16.230 --> 00:49:20.210
more questions. Yes. Yes. And we look forward

00:49:20.210 --> 00:49:23.150
to you tuning in next week. Yes. Good researching,

00:49:23.230 --> 00:49:29.920
everyone. Bye. Thank you.