WEBVTT 00:00:06.130 --> 00:00:08.589 Hello everybody and welcome to Family Tree Talk, 00:00:08.710 --> 00:00:10.750 your favourite family history podcast. I'm your 00:00:10.750 --> 00:00:13.589 co -host Nathan Ward and with me as always is... 00:00:13.589 --> 00:00:17.050 Helen Tuffy. Hi Helen, you alright? I'm very, 00:00:17.070 --> 00:00:20.269 very well, yeah. How are you? I'm okay. Busy, 00:00:20.269 --> 00:00:23.429 busy, busy as usual. How's your family history 00:00:23.429 --> 00:00:26.530 life going? Well, it's been a very... Exciting 00:00:26.530 --> 00:00:28.129 time recently, hasn't it? Because if you have 00:00:28.129 --> 00:00:33.450 any Irish ancestors, that 1926 census for what 00:00:33.450 --> 00:00:36.549 was the Irish Free State, that came out very 00:00:36.549 --> 00:00:39.450 recently and it's completely free to use. That 00:00:39.450 --> 00:00:42.070 is exciting. I'm not very excited by this because 00:00:42.070 --> 00:00:44.890 I don't have any yet. I'm waiting for the 1927 00:00:44.890 --> 00:00:47.030 Pudsey census to come out. It's going to be amazing. 00:00:47.210 --> 00:00:51.450 Yes, that would be amazing. I'll just tell you 00:00:51.450 --> 00:00:54.409 a few really, really enviable details that it 00:00:54.409 --> 00:00:57.009 has on it. Go for it. So we all know what kind 00:00:57.009 --> 00:00:59.909 of what we expect from a census if we're researching 00:00:59.909 --> 00:01:02.130 in the British Isles, kind of, you know, which 00:01:02.130 --> 00:01:05.890 kind of name states, job, relationship to head 00:01:05.890 --> 00:01:07.909 of household, that sort of thing. But these few 00:01:07.909 --> 00:01:10.989 extra funky details that the 1926 Irish census 00:01:10.989 --> 00:01:15.560 has. It has, for married women, it has the precise 00:01:15.560 --> 00:01:19.000 duration of their present marriage. So it will 00:01:19.000 --> 00:01:21.359 say, like, for my great -great -granny, it says 00:01:21.359 --> 00:01:25.299 51 years and 7 months. So if you didn't know 00:01:25.299 --> 00:01:27.799 their marriage date, you've got their marriage 00:01:27.799 --> 00:01:29.900 date. You haven't got the actual day of the month, 00:01:29.939 --> 00:01:32.810 but it's pretty close, isn't it? That's good. 00:01:32.909 --> 00:01:35.590 Yeah. Yeah. And what other things does it have? 00:01:35.670 --> 00:01:38.989 Oh, and then like the 1921 census, it has for 00:01:38.989 --> 00:01:41.930 England, Wales and Scotland, it has the details 00:01:41.930 --> 00:01:44.790 for the employer. So that's really, really cool 00:01:44.790 --> 00:01:48.430 because rather than just knowing they worked 00:01:48.430 --> 00:01:51.390 as a manager in a wool mill or whatever, which 00:01:51.390 --> 00:01:53.909 is what my two times great grandpa was, I now 00:01:53.909 --> 00:01:55.489 know the name of the mill, which I did actually 00:01:55.489 --> 00:01:58.299 know the name of the mill. But it confirms that. 00:01:58.299 --> 00:02:00.060 It gives you the name of the mill that he actually 00:02:00.060 --> 00:02:02.799 worked for. And we had a really cool talk by 00:02:02.799 --> 00:02:05.200 this Irish genealogist called Frances Daly. And 00:02:05.200 --> 00:02:07.019 she was saying, watch out when you're researching 00:02:07.019 --> 00:02:10.800 in the 1926 census because lots of the key place 00:02:10.800 --> 00:02:13.780 names may have changed. So these might be street 00:02:13.780 --> 00:02:16.419 names, factory names, institution names. And 00:02:16.419 --> 00:02:18.120 the reason they change is because if they were 00:02:18.120 --> 00:02:22.340 names which had been put onto Ireland by the 00:02:22.340 --> 00:02:25.300 kind of... Anglo -Irish or English overlords, 00:02:25.360 --> 00:02:28.960 then obviously when Ireland separated from the 00:02:28.960 --> 00:02:32.300 rest of the British Isles, politically established 00:02:32.300 --> 00:02:34.780 itself as a new state, then obviously it wanted 00:02:34.780 --> 00:02:37.520 to get rid of these names. So it's worth knowing 00:02:37.520 --> 00:02:39.300 about these name changes because if you're searching 00:02:39.300 --> 00:02:41.900 for one thing and it's changed. Right, okay. 00:02:42.159 --> 00:02:44.520 And a pickle. So it's all interesting. That's 00:02:44.520 --> 00:02:46.879 really cool. I might have to look into Irish 00:02:46.879 --> 00:02:49.759 censuses. Like, do you remember ages ago I had... 00:02:50.460 --> 00:02:52.300 I can't remember which guy it was now, but he 00:02:52.300 --> 00:02:54.919 joined the Navy, went off to war. Well, he didn't 00:02:54.919 --> 00:02:57.020 go off to war. He went to Jamaica and he was 00:02:57.020 --> 00:02:58.800 all around places, but he got married in Ireland. 00:02:58.900 --> 00:03:00.740 I don't know if you remember. I do remember this 00:03:00.740 --> 00:03:02.780 now, yeah. But I don't think I ever looked at 00:03:02.780 --> 00:03:04.759 any of the Irish censuses. I didn't even think 00:03:04.759 --> 00:03:07.099 about that. So I might have to find out what 00:03:07.099 --> 00:03:10.419 his date ranges were and dip in. I don't think 00:03:10.419 --> 00:03:12.400 it was 1926, though, but it was much earlier 00:03:12.400 --> 00:03:15.099 than that. But still, you can see if he appears 00:03:15.099 --> 00:03:20.169 on those. So the Irish censuses, it's a... It's 00:03:20.169 --> 00:03:24.169 a game of extremes. So you have the 1926 and 00:03:24.169 --> 00:03:28.949 the 1911 and the 1901, and they are free to search 00:03:28.949 --> 00:03:31.310 online. They're free to look at the beautiful 00:03:31.310 --> 00:03:34.169 digitized old documents. I mean, how good is 00:03:34.169 --> 00:03:36.289 that? Anyone can just, you can go and feast on 00:03:36.289 --> 00:03:39.189 them without spending a penny. But then prior 00:03:39.189 --> 00:03:42.969 to 1901, many of the censuses, most of the censuses 00:03:42.969 --> 00:03:44.770 have got destroyed for one reason or another. 00:03:45.129 --> 00:03:49.139 So when you get into the 1800s. You don't have 00:03:49.139 --> 00:03:52.659 that luxury of census for most people. There's 00:03:52.659 --> 00:03:54.419 a few little surviving snippets here and there 00:03:54.419 --> 00:03:56.860 just to make everyone else feel extra bleak that 00:03:56.860 --> 00:04:00.759 it wasn't for their area, but yeah. Okay. I feel 00:04:00.759 --> 00:04:03.039 mine was 1800, so I'm probably going to be scuppered 00:04:03.039 --> 00:04:07.000 straight away. You might be. Whatever. Yeah. 00:04:07.719 --> 00:04:09.800 But so that's been really fun for me. How about 00:04:09.800 --> 00:04:13.000 you? It's gone all right, I guess. I've been 00:04:13.000 --> 00:04:16.720 keeping up with my genealogy journal and I've 00:04:16.720 --> 00:04:20.100 done that. So I'm quite happy about that. I'm 00:04:20.100 --> 00:04:22.399 making slow progress. It's still the same old 00:04:22.399 --> 00:04:25.600 rubbish and I'm sick of it now. But it was finding 00:04:25.600 --> 00:04:28.839 the final three death dates, second time's great 00:04:28.839 --> 00:04:31.600 grandparents. And then I don't remember the last 00:04:31.600 --> 00:04:34.019 time I mentioned about having one of my one. 00:04:34.060 --> 00:04:36.639 I couldn't find one of them. But I found him 00:04:36.639 --> 00:04:40.199 to his son, Clifford. And then that opened up 00:04:40.199 --> 00:04:41.839 a whole can of worms for a new marriage, etc. 00:04:42.459 --> 00:04:44.920 So I made my mission this last week to finish 00:04:44.920 --> 00:04:48.019 off these three final two times great grandparents 00:04:48.019 --> 00:04:50.300 because I'm so, so bored of saying it out loud. 00:04:50.680 --> 00:04:52.759 And then I also needed to find out about Clifford 00:04:52.759 --> 00:04:55.879 because he died young. Largely, I just got my 00:04:55.879 --> 00:04:58.860 rear -ending gear and did the death dates for 00:04:58.860 --> 00:05:01.410 the second time great grandparents by... Using 00:05:01.410 --> 00:05:03.829 common sense and, like, searching the GRO, cross 00:05:03.829 --> 00:05:07.069 -referencing with free BMD and just matching 00:05:07.069 --> 00:05:08.709 everything up. And it all came quite easily. 00:05:08.730 --> 00:05:10.490 I don't know why I was dragging my heels on it. 00:05:10.529 --> 00:05:12.790 I think I just probably didn't really want to 00:05:12.790 --> 00:05:17.250 do it. So I've sorted everybody out there. Congratulations. 00:05:17.750 --> 00:05:20.790 Yeah, thanks. I don't feel fulfilled by it. I 00:05:20.790 --> 00:05:23.089 found it actually a little bit depressing. I 00:05:23.089 --> 00:05:24.490 don't know if I'm just overly emotional at the 00:05:24.490 --> 00:05:26.209 moment, but looking for death dates was a bit 00:05:26.209 --> 00:05:29.720 miserable. particularly so with the son Clifford 00:05:29.720 --> 00:05:32.339 because he died at 18 and I ended up ordering 00:05:32.339 --> 00:05:35.839 his death certificate and it said he it's on 00:05:35.839 --> 00:05:37.899 the death register thing it said that he died 00:05:37.899 --> 00:05:41.040 of heart failure due to an old emphysema of the 00:05:41.040 --> 00:05:44.379 lungs or something like that I've got no clue 00:05:44.379 --> 00:05:46.899 really what that means um I mentioned this to 00:05:46.899 --> 00:05:49.180 my mum and she said he died in a motorcycle accident 00:05:49.180 --> 00:05:52.639 so I don't would that have been logged on the 00:05:52.639 --> 00:05:55.319 death certificate if it was heart failure or 00:05:55.949 --> 00:05:57.930 Well, I mean, I do know death certificates are 00:05:57.930 --> 00:05:59.750 very precise, aren't they? So you could have 00:05:59.750 --> 00:06:01.670 been in a motorcycle accident and then you could 00:06:01.670 --> 00:06:05.230 have sustained long term health conditions. But 00:06:05.230 --> 00:06:07.069 what's actually going to get put down on the 00:06:07.069 --> 00:06:09.350 death certificate tends to be the final thing 00:06:09.350 --> 00:06:14.050 that takes you off. Right. OK, so. Right. I guess 00:06:14.050 --> 00:06:15.949 you could look for the newspaper, because if 00:06:15.949 --> 00:06:18.050 he's back in the early 1900s and he's involved 00:06:18.050 --> 00:06:21.009 in a motorcycle accident, then I would assume 00:06:21.009 --> 00:06:23.269 that'd be quite newspaper worthy. Yeah, it was 00:06:23.269 --> 00:06:26.939 1926 he died. Maybe I'll look for that. But yeah, 00:06:27.060 --> 00:06:30.259 it just, it says an old standing emphysema of 00:06:30.259 --> 00:06:35.579 the lungs. Accelerated by, I can't read the last 00:06:35.579 --> 00:06:37.459 words. It looks like escalation or something, 00:06:37.600 --> 00:06:40.500 whatever. Exertion. Oh, Nathan can read. Which 00:06:40.500 --> 00:06:42.779 to me doesn't sound like a motorcycle accident, 00:06:42.819 --> 00:06:45.819 but then maybe it's one of these long, long held 00:06:45.819 --> 00:06:48.860 family myths that's not actually real. But yeah, 00:06:48.899 --> 00:06:53.160 that was quite sad, dying at 18. Very sad. Both 00:06:53.160 --> 00:06:55.160 of his parents died two years prior to that as 00:06:55.160 --> 00:06:58.759 well. So it was just really like a sad search 00:06:58.759 --> 00:07:01.060 all around. Like, oh, they died in the same year, 00:07:01.160 --> 00:07:03.300 his parents. And then he died two years later 00:07:03.300 --> 00:07:05.579 at 18. So he obviously lost his parents quite 00:07:05.579 --> 00:07:09.199 young. It was just all really dark and sad. And 00:07:09.199 --> 00:07:11.660 if I'm honest, apart from that bit, I found it 00:07:11.660 --> 00:07:15.339 a little bit boring. I want adventure. I don't 00:07:15.339 --> 00:07:17.639 want to be just looking for facts. This is where 00:07:17.639 --> 00:07:19.540 I'm stuck now because after I'd found all these. 00:07:20.029 --> 00:07:22.930 I was like, what do I do next? I literally was 00:07:22.930 --> 00:07:25.930 like, I don't know which way to go. I could go 00:07:25.930 --> 00:07:27.949 to the third time's great grandparents and find 00:07:27.949 --> 00:07:30.670 their death dates. But like I said, it's making 00:07:30.670 --> 00:07:32.649 me feel a bit miserable. So I kind of don't want 00:07:32.649 --> 00:07:36.269 to do that. So do I just go for a deep dive and 00:07:36.269 --> 00:07:38.050 try and get further back deep dive? I'm not made 00:07:38.050 --> 00:07:41.750 of AI. Do I try and go further back? Maybe I 00:07:41.750 --> 00:07:44.370 should. What do you think? Well, I think there 00:07:44.370 --> 00:07:47.459 are a few things you can do. in your scruffy 00:07:47.459 --> 00:07:50.259 notes you might have so you just to recap Nathan's 00:07:50.259 --> 00:07:52.180 been doing his family history for very roughly 00:07:52.180 --> 00:07:54.879 about 18 months not quite 18 months yet is it 00:07:54.879 --> 00:07:57.379 but maybe like 16 months I don't know we know 00:07:57.379 --> 00:08:01.860 exactly December 2024 so that sort of time frame 00:08:01.860 --> 00:08:04.560 and he's done amazingly he's just established 00:08:04.560 --> 00:08:07.000 he's just announced today he's researched all 00:08:07.000 --> 00:08:09.569 of the bookend dates for his all of his Two times 00:08:09.569 --> 00:08:11.230 great grandparents. So even managing to get all 00:08:11.230 --> 00:08:12.790 of your two times great grandparents, that's 00:08:12.790 --> 00:08:15.110 a good shout out. It's not something that is 00:08:15.110 --> 00:08:18.170 inevitable. And even lots of experienced researchers 00:08:18.170 --> 00:08:21.110 can find they have a brick wall because if something 00:08:21.110 --> 00:08:24.209 unusual has happened in your family tree or the 00:08:24.209 --> 00:08:26.970 records don't survive or for any number of reasons, 00:08:27.129 --> 00:08:29.189 then it can be hard to trace them. So you're 00:08:29.189 --> 00:08:30.470 doing really well in your tree building. You've 00:08:30.470 --> 00:08:32.070 got quite a number of your three times great 00:08:32.070 --> 00:08:35.519 grandparents. And over the months, you've been 00:08:35.519 --> 00:08:37.399 really thorough how you've built your tree. So 00:08:37.399 --> 00:08:40.200 you haven't been exhaustive about finding absolutely 00:08:40.200 --> 00:08:42.379 every sibling. You haven't done it as kind of 00:08:42.379 --> 00:08:44.059 mission that I'm going to find every sibling. 00:08:44.179 --> 00:08:46.340 But you have been noting the siblings as you've 00:08:46.340 --> 00:08:48.179 gone along, haven't you? So you've probably done 00:08:48.179 --> 00:08:51.159 quite a good haul on these direct line siblings. 00:08:51.720 --> 00:08:55.340 Yeah, definitely. I feel like when I go back 00:08:55.340 --> 00:08:57.879 to people to find extra details, I am finding 00:08:57.879 --> 00:08:59.559 more and more siblings are creeping out of the 00:08:59.559 --> 00:09:01.100 woodwork. So I've not been like, like you say, 00:09:01.139 --> 00:09:03.610 meticulous. I've not. necessarily gone through 00:09:03.610 --> 00:09:06.289 every census for every single person i got the 00:09:06.289 --> 00:09:08.370 car details for a lot of them and then just carried 00:09:08.370 --> 00:09:11.750 on but others obviously we've i've got sort of 00:09:11.750 --> 00:09:13.870 a little bit obsessed by and then found loads 00:09:13.870 --> 00:09:16.649 of siblings so yeah a bit hit and miss with their 00:09:16.649 --> 00:09:20.809 siblings so because you have found the death 00:09:20.809 --> 00:09:23.289 the hall for the death dates um a little bit 00:09:23.289 --> 00:09:26.730 depressing quite understandably and because both 00:09:26.730 --> 00:09:29.549 of us are a little bit whimsical just by our 00:09:30.000 --> 00:09:31.879 turn of frame of mind or whatever you call it 00:09:31.879 --> 00:09:34.120 we like those stories and things and i do know 00:09:34.120 --> 00:09:35.559 that over the months you have mentioned quite 00:09:35.559 --> 00:09:37.879 a lot of intriguing things and you are also an 00:09:37.879 --> 00:09:40.240 extremely lucky person that you live in the same 00:09:40.240 --> 00:09:43.659 area that a lot of your victorian and 20th century 00:09:43.659 --> 00:09:46.870 ancestors lived so you're on kind of home hunting 00:09:46.870 --> 00:09:50.009 ground for finding out information and spring 00:09:50.009 --> 00:09:53.230 is in the air. So I think you could have a lot 00:09:53.230 --> 00:09:55.970 of fun by either just going through your tree 00:09:55.970 --> 00:09:57.610 to make a note of these things or going through 00:09:57.610 --> 00:09:59.629 any scruffy notes that you might have made. In 00:09:59.629 --> 00:10:00.730 the future, you'll be able to look through your 00:10:00.730 --> 00:10:03.269 genealogy journal and think of people that you 00:10:03.269 --> 00:10:05.129 found who you thought were interesting, even 00:10:05.129 --> 00:10:06.889 if they're not on your direct line. So remember 00:10:06.889 --> 00:10:09.350 you had a bridge painter and you were intrigued 00:10:09.350 --> 00:10:12.139 about which bridges and... What was his daily 00:10:12.139 --> 00:10:14.980 life like? You had somebody who I think who might 00:10:14.980 --> 00:10:17.919 have worked in aircraft in some way. You have 00:10:17.919 --> 00:10:20.559 your famous tank man. So you've got quite a lot 00:10:20.559 --> 00:10:23.559 of interesting occupations there. And it's one 00:10:23.559 --> 00:10:26.820 thing just knowing the name of what their occupation 00:10:26.820 --> 00:10:29.799 was at one point in their life. There's a few 00:10:29.799 --> 00:10:33.379 different things you can do. You can look at 00:10:33.379 --> 00:10:35.139 the occupations they had through their life because 00:10:35.139 --> 00:10:36.539 it might have changed or it might not have changed. 00:10:36.580 --> 00:10:40.399 That's just interesting in and of itself. dig 00:10:40.399 --> 00:10:42.820 deeper into what that occupation was like. And 00:10:42.820 --> 00:10:45.600 I never feel this is a waste of time. It's fascinating. 00:10:45.899 --> 00:10:48.740 You'll be shocked and appalled by the lack of 00:10:48.740 --> 00:10:52.000 health and safety, by the amount of creativity. 00:10:53.019 --> 00:10:55.259 You might have an occupation which involves them 00:10:55.259 --> 00:10:57.480 moving around a lot. So although they keep being 00:10:57.480 --> 00:11:00.059 based in your local area, you might find they're 00:11:00.059 --> 00:11:01.620 moving like if they worked on a railway, they 00:11:01.620 --> 00:11:03.019 might work along that railway line or whatever. 00:11:03.200 --> 00:11:05.879 So digging into their occupation. So this will 00:11:05.879 --> 00:11:08.799 involve you doing some local history. I think 00:11:08.799 --> 00:11:11.019 that could be really fun and learning about the 00:11:11.019 --> 00:11:14.059 places of employment in your local area and thinking, 00:11:14.120 --> 00:11:17.600 what were all these people, what was their working 00:11:17.600 --> 00:11:20.919 life like? Because that soaks up most of our 00:11:20.919 --> 00:11:23.500 life on planet Earth is going to work. So it's 00:11:23.500 --> 00:11:26.419 a pretty important part of Happy Cheese. So that's 00:11:26.419 --> 00:11:29.179 one thing I would definitely do. Yeah, well, 00:11:29.299 --> 00:11:32.720 interestingly, Joseph... George Ward, who was 00:11:32.720 --> 00:11:34.960 one of the last second -time great -grandparents 00:11:34.960 --> 00:11:37.879 for the death date, he was the guy that was the 00:11:37.879 --> 00:11:41.940 bridge painter. And I found in doing this research, 00:11:42.039 --> 00:11:46.779 I found that he was a bridge painter for the 00:11:46.779 --> 00:11:49.580 Great Northern Railway. Wow, wonderful. So he's 00:11:49.580 --> 00:11:51.460 been doing that, and Clifford, who obviously 00:11:51.460 --> 00:11:54.340 sadly died at 18, he also worked for the Great 00:11:54.340 --> 00:11:56.759 Northern Railway as well. So I was quite intrigued 00:11:56.759 --> 00:11:58.480 when that sort of stuff started coming up. So 00:11:58.480 --> 00:12:00.850 there is a little bit of... interest there like 00:12:00.850 --> 00:12:02.809 whereabouts did they work and what lines and 00:12:02.809 --> 00:12:07.330 stuff and even just so from our perspective somebody 00:12:07.330 --> 00:12:10.129 who's 18 it's a couple of years ago it changed 00:12:10.129 --> 00:12:12.230 um in england and wales at least so that you 00:12:12.230 --> 00:12:14.330 had to stay on in um education until you were 00:12:14.330 --> 00:12:17.009 18 so from our perspective 18 is a very very 00:12:17.009 --> 00:12:18.990 young adult they're only just fledging into the 00:12:18.990 --> 00:12:21.789 world of work whereas when you go back to the 00:12:21.789 --> 00:12:25.830 1920s early 1900s lots of people are leaving 00:12:25.830 --> 00:12:29.419 schools you know before A modern -day teenager 00:12:29.419 --> 00:12:31.600 would have done their GCSEs. It would just be 00:12:31.600 --> 00:12:33.220 the norm. And so by the time they've got to 18, 00:12:33.480 --> 00:12:35.679 they can easily have racked up three, four, five 00:12:35.679 --> 00:12:37.679 years of work, and that would just be normal. 00:12:38.179 --> 00:12:40.039 Okay, cool. Something to look at there, isn't 00:12:40.039 --> 00:12:42.220 there? Yeah, yeah. I might try and look in that 00:12:42.220 --> 00:12:44.179 accident logbook as well again and see if I get 00:12:44.179 --> 00:12:46.580 any hits on that. Yes. So what Nathan's talking 00:12:46.580 --> 00:12:49.039 about is the Railway Work, Life and Death Project, 00:12:49.120 --> 00:12:51.860 isn't it, by Dr Mike Esbesta? And he came, we 00:12:51.860 --> 00:12:53.580 interviewed him, didn't we, months ago, maybe 00:12:53.580 --> 00:12:55.639 even a year ago, a long time ago. But I think 00:12:55.639 --> 00:12:58.690 you should look in that, yes. Yep. yeah good 00:12:58.690 --> 00:13:01.470 chance there i think for uh for clifford and 00:13:01.470 --> 00:13:04.190 just so people aren't frustrated so the best 00:13:04.190 --> 00:13:06.169 way to find the railway work life and death project 00:13:06.169 --> 00:13:08.750 is just to google railway work life and death 00:13:08.750 --> 00:13:10.629 project and when you go on the website there's 00:13:10.629 --> 00:13:13.190 a page which has a screed of text and you keep 00:13:13.190 --> 00:13:15.230 scrolling down and then you can download the 00:13:15.230 --> 00:13:19.580 data in excel file format if excel file for leaves 00:13:19.580 --> 00:13:21.179 you cold or you haven't got excel i'm pretty 00:13:21.179 --> 00:13:23.580 sure you'll be able to open up in google docs 00:13:23.580 --> 00:13:25.379 which so it means that's a free way of being 00:13:25.379 --> 00:13:28.679 able to open up those files yeah and then the 00:13:28.679 --> 00:13:32.440 other thing for the 1926 census link the best 00:13:32.440 --> 00:13:34.840 thing for people to do would be to google 1926 00:13:34.840 --> 00:13:37.779 irish census if you want to go on that and you 00:13:37.779 --> 00:13:39.559 do not need to pay so if anyone's trying to make 00:13:39.559 --> 00:13:41.139 you pay for anything do not pay because you don't 00:13:41.139 --> 00:13:44.000 need to it's data which was released from the 00:13:44.000 --> 00:13:45.779 national archives of ireland and it's completely 00:13:45.779 --> 00:13:48.000 free Right, so you don't need to just go into 00:13:48.000 --> 00:13:50.320 Ancestry to look for it? No, not at all. No, 00:13:50.419 --> 00:13:53.600 no, no. The only place is on the National Archives 00:13:53.600 --> 00:13:57.299 of Ireland, a special dedicated 1926 space they've 00:13:57.299 --> 00:13:59.740 set up. So it won't appear on Ancestry straight 00:13:59.740 --> 00:14:02.639 away then? No, and I don't know that it ever 00:14:02.639 --> 00:14:05.299 will particularly either. Maybe they will do, 00:14:05.379 --> 00:14:08.100 maybe they'll have transcripts. And a bit how 00:14:08.100 --> 00:14:10.580 they do for Scotland. So you'll be able to get 00:14:10.580 --> 00:14:12.559 a few typed up details. But to get the actual 00:14:12.559 --> 00:14:15.120 census image, you need to go to Scotland's people. 00:14:15.299 --> 00:14:19.100 So potentially this could happen for the 1926 00:14:19.100 --> 00:14:21.279 census for Ireland. Or maybe they'll keep them. 00:14:21.399 --> 00:14:24.639 It depends on what the licensing happens. Intriguing. 00:14:25.399 --> 00:14:27.899 So shall I read out the census URL just so if 00:14:27.899 --> 00:14:34.500 anyone... Get your pencils ready. So it's https://nationalarchives 00:14:34.500 --> 00:14:38.639 .ie. forward slash collections, forward slash 00:14:38.639 --> 00:14:43.720 search, hyphen the, hyphen 1926, hyphen census, 00:14:43.840 --> 00:14:46.419 or just Google it. It's probably easier because 00:14:46.419 --> 00:14:49.899 it's not particularly short. Lovely. I'm sure 00:14:49.899 --> 00:14:51.620 everybody will find it from that. They will find 00:14:51.620 --> 00:15:01.309 it, yes. So how's your research going? well quite 00:15:01.309 --> 00:15:03.909 aside from the 1926 so the 1926 was so funny 00:15:03.909 --> 00:15:06.549 and we got released on the 18th of april and 00:15:06.549 --> 00:15:08.409 i woke up at five o 'clock on the saturday morning 00:15:08.409 --> 00:15:10.289 some people would have been night owls and stayed 00:15:10.289 --> 00:15:12.289 up ready for the site to go live that wasn't 00:15:12.289 --> 00:15:14.250 me i'm not a light owl anyone too old and decrepit 00:15:14.750 --> 00:15:17.129 But I can do the early bird thing. And I just 00:15:17.129 --> 00:15:19.389 woke up at five o 'clock in the morning and straight 00:15:19.389 --> 00:15:21.649 away my eyes pinged open. I was like, grab my 00:15:21.649 --> 00:15:25.389 iPad and went searching for my two times great 00:15:25.389 --> 00:15:27.049 grandparents, my great granny and my grandpa, 00:15:27.269 --> 00:15:29.250 all of whom I was hoping I was going to find 00:15:29.250 --> 00:15:32.350 in Ireland. And I did. From all together living 00:15:32.350 --> 00:15:35.080 in the same house. My two times great grandpa 00:15:35.080 --> 00:15:39.019 is 71 and a half years old and they were living 00:15:39.019 --> 00:15:41.980 in a five roomed house. I haven't actually dug 00:15:41.980 --> 00:15:45.340 into it, what those five rooms entail, but normally 00:15:45.340 --> 00:15:47.700 they wouldn't include things like if they had 00:15:47.700 --> 00:15:49.820 a bathroom, it wouldn't include a bathroom, wouldn't 00:15:49.820 --> 00:15:51.980 include a kitchen or office space. So there'd 00:15:51.980 --> 00:15:55.259 be five rooms is OK, isn't it? It's like a living, 00:15:55.399 --> 00:15:58.500 it's like a normal three bed semi, isn't it? 00:15:59.200 --> 00:16:01.759 Got three bedrooms and then a living room and 00:16:01.759 --> 00:16:03.480 a... front room or kitchen or you know however 00:16:03.480 --> 00:16:05.820 you how people spread out their space so and 00:16:05.820 --> 00:16:08.679 his job and he's done this job for decades is 00:16:08.679 --> 00:16:12.720 he's the manager of the mill so it's it's called 00:16:12.720 --> 00:16:17.259 variably O 'Brien's Mill in Douglas Cork or uh 00:16:17.259 --> 00:16:20.480 later St Patrick's Mill and I was like well of 00:16:20.480 --> 00:16:22.139 course he's he's retired at this stage because 00:16:22.139 --> 00:16:25.320 he's 70 and a half and then I I've just I've 00:16:25.320 --> 00:16:27.980 had a week of making leaping to conclusions and 00:16:27.980 --> 00:16:29.840 then going, oh, why don't you go and read the 00:16:29.840 --> 00:16:31.899 records again and see what it actually says? 00:16:32.220 --> 00:16:34.519 And this has been the theme of the week. I think 00:16:34.519 --> 00:16:37.299 I've been trying to hurtle around. So I went 00:16:37.299 --> 00:16:39.220 back to the records. Even though he's 70 and 00:16:39.220 --> 00:16:42.580 a half, so he is eligible for the state pension 00:16:42.580 --> 00:16:47.179 by then, which is 70, he's still working, yeah? 00:16:47.700 --> 00:16:49.899 And he dies the following year, so he never gets 00:16:49.899 --> 00:16:53.289 to retire. Oh, wow. Well, again, another leap 00:16:53.289 --> 00:16:55.029 of faith. He might have retired in the final 00:16:55.029 --> 00:16:57.769 year of his life. I need to find that out. So 00:16:57.769 --> 00:17:01.049 I found him. Him and my two times great granny, 00:17:01.149 --> 00:17:03.330 they are a couple who always confuse me because 00:17:03.330 --> 00:17:06.170 they're born in the 1850s and they have children 00:17:06.170 --> 00:17:10.130 together for so long. They're kind of the... 00:17:10.400 --> 00:17:12.299 My two -time great -granny is a late teenager. 00:17:12.339 --> 00:17:14.519 I think she's about 19 when she has her first 00:17:14.519 --> 00:17:18.119 baby. And by the 1890s, she's still having children. 00:17:18.259 --> 00:17:19.539 And I always think, wait a minute, wait a minute. 00:17:19.579 --> 00:17:20.940 Have I got two generations here? What's happening? 00:17:20.980 --> 00:17:22.119 What's happening? And they just have children 00:17:22.119 --> 00:17:24.220 for such a long time. She spends her entire adult 00:17:24.220 --> 00:17:28.059 life having children. Wow. Yeah. So by the time 00:17:28.059 --> 00:17:32.279 you get to the 1926, then they are married. They've 00:17:32.279 --> 00:17:35.200 been married for 51 years and four months, which 00:17:35.200 --> 00:17:36.839 is really cool, isn't it? It's good, isn't it? 00:17:36.839 --> 00:17:40.200 Yeah. Very good. And then the plot thickens because 00:17:40.200 --> 00:17:42.440 the whole reason why our family got into family 00:17:42.440 --> 00:17:47.480 history was because my dad found his grandpa's 00:17:47.480 --> 00:17:50.079 death notice in the newspapers in the 1960s. 00:17:50.079 --> 00:17:52.640 And this is my great grandpa. So my great grandpa 00:17:52.640 --> 00:17:54.460 was supposed to have died of war wounds after 00:17:54.460 --> 00:17:56.180 the First World War. He didn't know. He went 00:17:56.180 --> 00:17:59.460 AWOL, died in the 1960s. And it was a very tumultuous 00:17:59.460 --> 00:18:01.759 time after the First World War. Lots of people 00:18:01.759 --> 00:18:04.759 were on the move, traumatised. There's statistical 00:18:04.759 --> 00:18:07.859 rises in bigamy. There's, you know, it's a complicated... 00:18:08.279 --> 00:18:10.920 sad society in lots of respects and he's one 00:18:10.920 --> 00:18:14.019 of those figures yeah he's a he's a case study 00:18:14.019 --> 00:18:17.039 of part of a broader picture anyway so I'd always 00:18:17.039 --> 00:18:19.180 been intrigued what it was going to say about 00:18:19.180 --> 00:18:23.460 my great granny and my grandpa on the 1926 census 00:18:23.460 --> 00:18:26.619 because when the 1921 census came out for England 00:18:26.619 --> 00:18:30.500 and Wales I found my great grandpa and he's living 00:18:30.500 --> 00:18:33.660 at home with his mum and his sister and it says 00:18:33.660 --> 00:18:36.740 he has one child and there's no sign of the wife, 00:18:36.880 --> 00:18:38.880 and there's no sign of the child. I was like, 00:18:38.900 --> 00:18:41.160 I have to be patient. I have to wait four or 00:18:41.160 --> 00:18:44.240 five years. When the 1926 census comes out, I'll 00:18:44.240 --> 00:18:47.160 see what it says. So here they are on the 1926 00:18:47.160 --> 00:18:49.680 census, and she is there, my great -granny's 00:18:49.680 --> 00:18:51.880 there, with my grandpa, who's a little five -year 00:18:51.880 --> 00:18:55.819 -old. And the duration of the present marriage 00:18:55.819 --> 00:18:59.299 for my great -granny says seven years and however 00:18:59.299 --> 00:19:03.240 many months. And so that record is recording 00:19:03.240 --> 00:19:07.480 that she is still married. Her dad filled in 00:19:07.480 --> 00:19:09.539 the form. Her dad still perceives that she's 00:19:09.539 --> 00:19:12.759 still married and it's still a present live marriage, 00:19:12.839 --> 00:19:14.680 even though they've been split up for many years 00:19:14.680 --> 00:19:16.339 at this stage. They've been split up for at least 00:19:16.339 --> 00:19:20.440 five years. And the family legend about, or the 00:19:20.440 --> 00:19:22.619 family understanding or story, I don't know what 00:19:22.619 --> 00:19:24.660 to call it, that we were all brought up with, 00:19:24.819 --> 00:19:28.039 that this great grandpa had died. of war wounds 00:19:28.039 --> 00:19:30.799 shortly after the first world war so enough time 00:19:30.799 --> 00:19:33.579 for my grandpa to get conceived then my great 00:19:33.579 --> 00:19:38.119 grandpa dies but clearly in 1926 when my great 00:19:38.119 --> 00:19:40.599 granny's dad fills in the census form he's like 00:19:40.599 --> 00:19:43.619 they're married and there's no that that kind 00:19:43.619 --> 00:19:45.940 of urban myth that family myth about him having 00:19:45.940 --> 00:19:48.460 died of war wounds is not part of the paper trail 00:19:48.460 --> 00:19:52.180 so at some point i'm like so who and then it 00:19:52.180 --> 00:19:55.559 asked me to reflect i'm like so who where did 00:19:55.559 --> 00:19:58.160 this story come about because I think this is 00:19:58.160 --> 00:20:01.500 my theme of making assumptions. So our family 00:20:01.500 --> 00:20:06.180 was, my dad got told this story by his dad. And 00:20:06.180 --> 00:20:10.299 his dad said, his dad died of war wounds after 00:20:10.299 --> 00:20:13.519 the First World War. And the assumption is that 00:20:13.519 --> 00:20:16.440 he got told this by his mother. But now I'm wondering, 00:20:16.640 --> 00:20:18.559 maybe it was my grandpa who made up the story. 00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:21.339 And we've cast this, we've kind of pointed the 00:20:21.339 --> 00:20:22.859 finger at my great granny and said, why did you 00:20:22.859 --> 00:20:26.849 lie? And maybe she never did. Maybe she... It 00:20:26.849 --> 00:20:29.390 just shows the family history. I think we have 00:20:29.390 --> 00:20:31.809 to be kind and we have to, this is a lesson to 00:20:31.809 --> 00:20:34.910 me, I'm such an assumption maker. I love tying 00:20:34.910 --> 00:20:37.190 up the loose ends, adding two and two, making 00:20:37.190 --> 00:20:40.710 five, weaving my stories. Sometimes you have 00:20:40.710 --> 00:20:43.549 to accept you don't know, don't judge, don't 00:20:43.549 --> 00:20:45.930 make assumptions. But I do find it intriguing, 00:20:46.109 --> 00:20:49.529 this paper trail record is very factual and no 00:20:49.529 --> 00:20:51.849 hint of the family myth at that point. Because 00:20:51.849 --> 00:20:53.630 the paper trail records can hold those family 00:20:53.630 --> 00:20:55.930 myths, but this time it doesn't. Yeah, that's 00:20:55.930 --> 00:20:57.890 really intriguing, isn't it? It's like, what 00:20:57.890 --> 00:21:00.750 time did they decide to have the quote -unquote 00:21:00.750 --> 00:21:05.170 myth? Yeah. Yeah. And who started it? And also, 00:21:05.269 --> 00:21:07.549 when you get handed the myth, if you don't know 00:21:07.549 --> 00:21:10.509 it's a myth, you can become the unwitting bearer 00:21:10.509 --> 00:21:12.349 of it. You're the myth bearer, but you don't 00:21:12.349 --> 00:21:16.369 know it. And so you just perpetuate it. Oh, man. 00:21:16.650 --> 00:21:19.410 Anyway, that was interesting. What other interesting 00:21:19.410 --> 00:21:22.109 things have I had? Oh, do you want more assumptions? 00:21:22.769 --> 00:21:26.240 Why the hell not? Yeah, let's go for it. So I've 00:21:26.240 --> 00:21:28.240 been looking. So this two times great grandpa, 00:21:28.400 --> 00:21:31.180 who was the manager in the woolen mill down in 00:21:31.180 --> 00:21:35.339 Cork, his brother is the one who got caught stealing 00:21:35.339 --> 00:21:40.940 a ton of coal in 1896. Yeah. And so scooted forward 00:21:40.940 --> 00:21:43.599 to the 1901 census. I'd found him with his wife, 00:21:43.799 --> 00:21:46.799 scooted further forward, found him with his little 00:21:46.799 --> 00:21:48.779 three year old daughter or found his little three 00:21:48.779 --> 00:21:51.039 year old daughter emigrating to America to see 00:21:51.039 --> 00:21:53.059 her mother. So I was trying to find out about 00:21:53.059 --> 00:21:55.319 my two times great grandma. Pa's brother, which 00:21:55.319 --> 00:21:57.019 I've also referred to as my great granny's uncle. 00:21:57.160 --> 00:22:01.059 Same guy, obviously. And I was trying to find 00:22:01.059 --> 00:22:02.940 out about him. And so then I went back to the 00:22:02.940 --> 00:22:06.400 1901 census. Oh, I know. So the two other things 00:22:06.400 --> 00:22:08.420 I found out about him, I found he got arrested 00:22:08.420 --> 00:22:12.720 for drunkenness and he, with his penknife, stabbed 00:22:12.720 --> 00:22:15.160 somebody. So he got arrested by the policeman. 00:22:15.259 --> 00:22:17.839 And I wasn't quite sure from the newspaper account 00:22:17.839 --> 00:22:20.599 whether he'd stabbed the policeman or whether 00:22:20.599 --> 00:22:23.119 he had stabbed a passerby, whether the passerby 00:22:23.119 --> 00:22:25.640 was a witness of the police man being stabbed 00:22:25.640 --> 00:22:27.279 or whether the passerby got embroiled in the 00:22:27.279 --> 00:22:30.079 stabbing so that's that's so many questions like 00:22:30.079 --> 00:22:32.019 did he go to jail what was the trial like i need 00:22:32.019 --> 00:22:34.960 to find out all these things and then i was trying 00:22:34.960 --> 00:22:38.140 to find out more about this instance of the drunkenness 00:22:38.140 --> 00:22:40.039 and the accidental well i like to call it accidental 00:22:40.039 --> 00:22:42.140 stabbing there we go again with assumptions i 00:22:42.140 --> 00:22:46.579 like to think it was an accident moment of madness 00:22:46.579 --> 00:22:51.440 anyway poor guy so i found him a newspaper account 00:22:51.440 --> 00:22:56.480 in August 1901, and he's selling all of his property. 00:22:56.900 --> 00:22:59.380 And it's a really lovely account. Like he clearly 00:22:59.380 --> 00:23:02.380 had a nice family home full of nice things, nice 00:23:02.380 --> 00:23:04.339 furniture, not like posh or anything, but just 00:23:04.339 --> 00:23:08.579 a lovely home full of good garden tools, solid, 00:23:08.640 --> 00:23:11.279 reliable furniture, a nice, comfortable home, 00:23:11.359 --> 00:23:14.960 which is not easy to come by at any time in history 00:23:14.960 --> 00:23:18.000 and definitely not guaranteed, you know, in the 00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:23.220 early 1900s. This is a tragic story, so we timeline 00:23:23.220 --> 00:23:27.000 it. 1894, one of his sons dies at the end of 00:23:27.000 --> 00:23:30.960 July. August 1894, his wife dies on a newspaper 00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:33.339 clipping. He's like, my dearly beloved wife, 00:23:33.559 --> 00:23:37.279 Mary Jane, dies. 1896, he gets caught for stealing 00:23:37.279 --> 00:23:40.720 a ton of coal. 1897, I find he actually marries 00:23:40.720 --> 00:23:43.500 a different woman, who's the woman on the 1901 00:23:43.500 --> 00:23:46.920 census called Alicia. And then, so 1901 census, 00:23:47.019 --> 00:23:49.339 he's on the census with Alicia, who is the same 00:23:49.339 --> 00:23:52.099 age as his Older children. That's complicated, 00:23:52.380 --> 00:23:55.400 but I guess that's just what happens. And then 00:23:55.400 --> 00:23:58.440 August 1901. So just a few months after that 00:23:58.440 --> 00:24:01.140 census, he's selling all of his property. I'm 00:24:01.140 --> 00:24:02.960 like, what's happened? What's happened? Like, 00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:05.279 is he going to emigrate? Has he lost his job? 00:24:05.460 --> 00:24:08.559 I don't know. Yeah. What's happened? And then 00:24:08.559 --> 00:24:11.440 November 1901. So just a few months after that, 00:24:11.460 --> 00:24:14.400 he marries for the third time to his Marianne. 00:24:14.839 --> 00:24:17.339 And he has a little baby the following August. 00:24:17.880 --> 00:24:19.720 So he wasn't married. It wasn't a shotgun marriage. 00:24:19.920 --> 00:24:21.740 She wasn't pregnant at the time she got married. 00:24:21.900 --> 00:24:25.599 So they got married August 1902. Little baby 00:24:25.599 --> 00:24:29.579 Mary Jane, which I felt as a hunch would be married, 00:24:29.640 --> 00:24:31.680 named after his first wife. And because of the 00:24:31.680 --> 00:24:33.259 newspaper, because he's my dearly beloved wife, 00:24:33.440 --> 00:24:35.920 I think the little baby was named after his first 00:24:35.920 --> 00:24:38.500 wife. She gets born. Three years later, the baby's 00:24:38.500 --> 00:24:40.019 going off to America. So I'm like, this guy is 00:24:40.019 --> 00:24:41.480 going. And at some point, I've forgotten what 00:24:41.480 --> 00:24:44.440 date, he's done his accidental stabbing and arrest 00:24:44.440 --> 00:24:49.220 for drunkenness. Oh, my life. It's just tragic 00:24:49.220 --> 00:24:53.960 and fascinating. That's a lot of information. 00:24:54.079 --> 00:24:56.019 And this is the guy that becomes a confectioner? 00:24:56.099 --> 00:24:57.819 No, he's definitely not a confectioner. I've 00:24:57.819 --> 00:24:59.619 looked into that as well. He's not a confectioner. 00:24:59.720 --> 00:25:03.359 I had thought he might be. Of course, it's not 00:25:03.359 --> 00:25:06.140 going to work out for him. I'll stab you or I'll 00:25:06.140 --> 00:25:08.799 give you some sweets. Yes. The reason I found 00:25:08.799 --> 00:25:11.799 out that he's not a confectioner, I tried digging 00:25:11.799 --> 00:25:14.839 into that. And I felt like you in the lead's 00:25:14.839 --> 00:25:16.160 getting colder and colder. And you're like, no, 00:25:16.259 --> 00:25:19.380 this is just wrong. It's not stacking up. But 00:25:19.380 --> 00:25:23.299 then I'd done a few leaps of faith and a few 00:25:23.299 --> 00:25:24.900 assumptions, because as I say, this is the theme 00:25:24.900 --> 00:25:26.640 of the week. And I'd accidentally added a few 00:25:26.640 --> 00:25:28.680 people to my tree. And then, you know, when you 00:25:28.680 --> 00:25:31.619 go and research some further to shore up your 00:25:31.619 --> 00:25:33.740 findings, and then you're like, this is actually 00:25:33.740 --> 00:25:36.640 mumbo jumbo. So I was quickly deleting the people 00:25:36.640 --> 00:25:40.359 off my tree. deleting the records and then to 00:25:40.359 --> 00:25:41.880 be fair to me this doesn't happen that often 00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:43.960 i'm just telling anyone else so what happens 00:25:43.960 --> 00:25:45.839 is and it's a very important notice when you 00:25:45.839 --> 00:25:48.500 have to delete the the it's kind of like a walk 00:25:48.500 --> 00:25:51.460 of shame back through your family history it's 00:25:51.460 --> 00:25:53.799 all i've had to do this week when you delete 00:25:53.799 --> 00:25:56.220 a record of your family to your ancestry it goes 00:25:56.220 --> 00:25:59.039 watch out in it says it in official wording watch 00:25:59.039 --> 00:26:01.940 out any associated facts to do with this record 00:26:01.940 --> 00:26:05.259 won't be deleted So let's say you've added a 00:26:05.259 --> 00:26:08.019 census and it's added in, I don't know, an address 00:26:08.019 --> 00:26:11.000 or occupation or whatever. If it's added in any 00:26:11.000 --> 00:26:14.740 other facts down that fact line, delete the record. 00:26:14.779 --> 00:26:16.480 But you also need to go down your fact line and 00:26:16.480 --> 00:26:19.480 manually delete any associated facts. So, for 00:26:19.480 --> 00:26:23.619 instance, with my Betty, I'd wrongly assumed 00:26:23.619 --> 00:26:25.539 that there was a woman called Christina being 00:26:25.539 --> 00:26:27.980 her aunt. And Christina wasn't. It turns out, 00:26:27.980 --> 00:26:30.559 scooting back, Christina was her mum. And it 00:26:30.559 --> 00:26:32.099 turns out that's why the confectioner isn't the 00:26:32.099 --> 00:26:35.279 relation. It does all make sense at the time. 00:26:35.480 --> 00:26:38.980 Wow, it's a lot of stuff in one little strand, 00:26:39.099 --> 00:26:41.279 that, isn't it? It is a lot of stuff. I love 00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:45.680 it. Yeah, I was shocked at myself how wrong I 00:26:45.680 --> 00:26:48.960 could go so quickly, but I think it does show 00:26:48.960 --> 00:26:52.119 the value of the more information you can get 00:26:52.119 --> 00:26:55.319 about a person, the better chance you have of 00:26:55.319 --> 00:26:58.700 getting an accurate picture. So you could... 00:26:58.960 --> 00:27:00.799 be in the danger of getting a lot of information 00:27:00.799 --> 00:27:02.880 about somebody. And that information could be 00:27:02.880 --> 00:27:05.579 accurate to that person. But still, that person 00:27:05.579 --> 00:27:07.480 doesn't actually belong in your tree. It's just 00:27:07.480 --> 00:27:09.640 a namesake. But the more information you get 00:27:09.640 --> 00:27:11.779 about one person, the more information you get 00:27:11.779 --> 00:27:14.900 about the other people, so their siblings, their 00:27:14.900 --> 00:27:19.619 spouses, all of that, then the more errors in 00:27:19.619 --> 00:27:22.200 your research get thrown up, don't they? They 00:27:22.200 --> 00:27:25.779 kind of come to light. Yeah. Yeah, that's terrifying. 00:27:25.960 --> 00:27:28.539 It's making me a little bit sweaty. Well, don't, 00:27:28.579 --> 00:27:31.019 it's just my rubbish research. So your research 00:27:31.019 --> 00:27:32.759 is fine. You wouldn't have added them to the 00:27:32.759 --> 00:27:37.000 tree in that slightly giddy way that I did. It's 00:27:37.000 --> 00:27:39.559 just, again, I'm going back to my Joseph George 00:27:39.559 --> 00:27:43.240 with his remarry. He got remarried and I found 00:27:43.240 --> 00:27:45.319 out loads about this wife that he remarried. 00:27:45.359 --> 00:27:48.880 And then I started chronicling her like generations 00:27:48.880 --> 00:27:51.339 back because it all came together really easily. 00:27:51.359 --> 00:27:54.220 And I'm now like, oh my God, is that real? It 00:27:54.220 --> 00:27:57.539 probably was. But it is far too easy, isn't it? 00:27:57.559 --> 00:28:01.400 It's terrifying. We have to accept the fact, 00:28:01.539 --> 00:28:03.440 if you're somebody like me, and probably all 00:28:03.440 --> 00:28:06.839 of us, that we can make mistakes. It's so easy, 00:28:06.940 --> 00:28:09.700 isn't it? It's the belief that it gives you, 00:28:09.720 --> 00:28:11.099 because you do get the things that cross over. 00:28:11.180 --> 00:28:13.259 You're like, well, that name can't surely be 00:28:13.259 --> 00:28:15.779 there as well and not be the same person. It 00:28:15.779 --> 00:28:18.880 can't be. That's why I like a good middle name, 00:28:19.019 --> 00:28:21.779 a good randomly weird middle name. Or a birth 00:28:21.779 --> 00:28:24.200 at some really obscure location that you can 00:28:24.200 --> 00:28:28.400 just follow. Very comfortable, doesn't it? I 00:28:28.400 --> 00:28:36.900 can remember. Do you know what? We've had some 00:28:36.900 --> 00:28:39.539 really cool podcast emails. So shall we read 00:28:39.539 --> 00:28:43.299 them out? Oh, please do. Yeah. So we've had somebody 00:28:43.299 --> 00:28:45.859 who just mentioned it as an aside. So they were 00:28:45.859 --> 00:28:48.940 emailing in about something else because somebody 00:28:48.940 --> 00:28:52.000 actually called Diane and she's studying on Sophie 00:28:52.000 --> 00:28:56.400 K's. research skills course at the moment and 00:28:56.400 --> 00:28:58.240 she says there's a kind of almost like a little 00:28:58.240 --> 00:29:00.960 PS I'm really enjoying your podcast with Nathan 00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:03.119 too she's only discovered it recently she's working 00:29:03.119 --> 00:29:04.759 her way through the episodes and picking up lots 00:29:04.759 --> 00:29:07.539 of tips so Diane I hope you're enjoying listening 00:29:07.539 --> 00:29:12.339 that's that's very cool and then um James has 00:29:12.339 --> 00:29:14.599 written in and he has written a long email which 00:29:14.599 --> 00:29:16.500 I can read out would you like me to read it out 00:29:16.500 --> 00:29:19.019 you can do yes it's up to you okay I'm going 00:29:19.019 --> 00:29:20.500 to read it out I'm going to read it all out so 00:29:20.500 --> 00:29:23.369 that I don't do a muddling kind of pricey so 00:29:23.369 --> 00:29:26.150 james writes hi helen and nathan i hope you're 00:29:26.150 --> 00:29:27.970 both well i really enjoy listening to your podcast 00:29:27.970 --> 00:29:31.009 family tree talk and i love finding out little 00:29:31.009 --> 00:29:33.410 segments of information that may help you with 00:29:33.410 --> 00:29:35.349 my tree building so we really hope it is helpful 00:29:35.349 --> 00:29:37.230 to people our aim is although it's waffle is 00:29:37.230 --> 00:29:40.309 that it does provide useful tips and kind of 00:29:40.309 --> 00:29:43.049 points for reflection he has been i have been 00:29:43.049 --> 00:29:46.029 i've been researching my family history since 00:29:46.029 --> 00:29:50.930 2013 on ancestry and has a tree score of 9 .9. 00:29:51.509 --> 00:29:54.650 Nice one. Well done. It's the best tree scar. 00:29:55.490 --> 00:29:58.390 I've recently purchased the ProTips, or that's 00:29:58.390 --> 00:30:02.250 the Pro Tools, and found out I only have 25 errors, 00:30:02.430 --> 00:30:04.789 all of which are for people with no sources. 00:30:05.289 --> 00:30:07.849 They do tend to be the people at the top or bottom 00:30:07.849 --> 00:30:10.509 of the tree where the records are harder to find 00:30:10.509 --> 00:30:13.009 or not available, or they're people who've been 00:30:13.009 --> 00:30:15.170 born outside of the UK and haven't been able 00:30:15.170 --> 00:30:17.369 to view the records. That's understandable, isn't 00:30:17.369 --> 00:30:20.000 it? Mm -hmm. One issue which did arise on my 00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:22.900 tree was Ancestry thought I had a duplicate for 00:30:22.900 --> 00:30:25.339 some ancestors who are called Joseph and Josephine 00:30:25.339 --> 00:30:27.380 who were born on the same day. However, looking 00:30:27.380 --> 00:30:30.059 at the records, they were shown on the same census 00:30:30.059 --> 00:30:32.559 multiple times, so I assumed they were twins 00:30:32.559 --> 00:30:34.480 and ignored the Ancestry error. That's just what 00:30:34.480 --> 00:30:36.480 you had as well, didn't you, with your Mary and 00:30:36.480 --> 00:30:38.539 Maria the other week? Yeah, exactly that. I mean, 00:30:38.579 --> 00:30:39.980 they weren't born on the same day, but it was, 00:30:39.980 --> 00:30:42.059 yeah, they were on the census quite a few times 00:30:42.059 --> 00:30:44.559 together, so I established it wasn't a duplicate, 00:30:44.660 --> 00:30:46.880 despite them wanting it to be. I mean, that's 00:30:46.880 --> 00:30:49.160 just stopping in the midst of reading James's 00:30:49.160 --> 00:30:52.940 email. We always need some way of marking that 00:30:52.940 --> 00:30:55.839 to our self, that they're definitely not a duplicate, 00:30:55.980 --> 00:30:58.000 don't we? Because one of my mistakes I made this 00:30:58.000 --> 00:31:01.460 week was I realised I had two Agnes Lintons as 00:31:01.460 --> 00:31:04.220 two siblings on one bit of my tree. And I was 00:31:04.220 --> 00:31:07.440 like, duplicate, idiot. So I merged them. And 00:31:07.440 --> 00:31:10.140 then I looked at my research more carefully on 00:31:10.140 --> 00:31:12.279 Family Tree Maker. I was like, they weren't duplicates, 00:31:12.299 --> 00:31:14.279 idiot. They were two sisters. And obviously the 00:31:14.279 --> 00:31:17.250 first sister died. And then eight years later, 00:31:17.289 --> 00:31:18.970 the other one. So then I had to re -establish 00:31:18.970 --> 00:31:22.009 that on my tree. We have to think about that 00:31:22.009 --> 00:31:23.369 in a minute once I finish reading James, how 00:31:23.369 --> 00:31:24.829 we can mark that up on our tree, couldn't we? 00:31:25.150 --> 00:31:28.210 Yep. So James continues. I'm currently in the 00:31:28.210 --> 00:31:31.009 same boat as Helen, finding out all about my 00:31:31.009 --> 00:31:34.309 down and outs. I realise that this does help 00:31:34.309 --> 00:31:36.569 with your research and even knocks down to potential 00:31:36.569 --> 00:31:39.410 research walls. And here are a couple of examples 00:31:39.410 --> 00:31:42.910 on my tree. My two -times great -grandfather 00:31:42.910 --> 00:31:44.930 is still proving to be difficult to research 00:31:44.930 --> 00:31:47.549 in his early years and finding his marriage in 00:31:47.549 --> 00:31:50.190 1882 to my two -times great -grandmother proved 00:31:50.190 --> 00:31:53.130 tricky. He was originally from Essex and my two 00:31:53.130 --> 00:31:55.069 -times great -grandmother was from Derbyshire 00:31:55.069 --> 00:31:57.710 but the wedding certificate which seemed most 00:31:57.710 --> 00:32:00.970 relevant was for Beverley in Yorkshire. It was 00:32:00.970 --> 00:32:03.750 only by doing my down and outs I found my two 00:32:03.750 --> 00:32:06.589 times great grandmother's sibling had given birth 00:32:06.589 --> 00:32:10.109 to a child in South Cave, just outside of Beverley, 00:32:10.210 --> 00:32:13.210 a month before they were married. Their father 00:32:13.210 --> 00:32:15.789 was also a train driver who had moved around 00:32:15.789 --> 00:32:18.369 the country for work, which should explain why 00:32:18.369 --> 00:32:21.849 they were in this area at the time. So that's 00:32:21.849 --> 00:32:24.509 what we're saying as well about the value of 00:32:24.509 --> 00:32:27.029 researching. The more people you research, it 00:32:27.029 --> 00:32:31.119 does help. It's just jolly useful. Isn't it? 00:32:31.240 --> 00:32:34.680 It's making me feel guilty. Yes. And then James 00:32:34.680 --> 00:32:38.079 talks about a photo which has been added to multiple 00:32:38.079 --> 00:32:40.539 people. So James is three times great grandfather, 00:32:40.700 --> 00:32:44.380 George Carpenter. And a photo has been added 00:32:44.380 --> 00:32:47.940 all over Ancestry and kind of proliferated in 00:32:47.940 --> 00:32:51.519 the wrong places. And James has put it correctly 00:32:51.519 --> 00:32:53.920 on his tree, but he feels a bit wide that everyone's 00:32:53.920 --> 00:32:55.599 going to think he's the person who's got it wrong 00:32:55.599 --> 00:32:57.099 because he's standing out like a sore thumb. 00:32:57.609 --> 00:33:00.069 It's tough, isn't it? I think he has to keep 00:33:00.069 --> 00:33:02.710 confident. Definitely. That's the hard part, 00:33:02.809 --> 00:33:04.529 isn't it? Having that self -belief and knowing 00:33:04.529 --> 00:33:06.269 that you're right and other people are wrong 00:33:06.269 --> 00:33:09.829 without being arrogant about it. Yeah, that's 00:33:09.829 --> 00:33:13.269 a funny one. Because I had that, didn't I, with 00:33:13.269 --> 00:33:16.490 the guy with the glue mill. Some bit down as 00:33:16.490 --> 00:33:18.029 a great, great grandparent, but it was actually 00:33:18.029 --> 00:33:23.890 the generation prior to that. So, scary stuff. 00:33:24.630 --> 00:33:27.950 So what... Two things there. So when you do come 00:33:27.950 --> 00:33:29.730 across a circumstance like that, what do you 00:33:29.730 --> 00:33:34.849 do, Nathan? For the duplicates? Or what do you 00:33:34.849 --> 00:33:37.490 mean for the... Well, let's do both, yeah. So 00:33:37.490 --> 00:33:41.569 what do you do when you find a piece of information 00:33:41.569 --> 00:33:44.970 which is wrong on someone else's tree? Do you 00:33:44.970 --> 00:33:48.049 keep a record somewhere of why you think what 00:33:48.049 --> 00:33:51.009 you think so that you have your confidence knocked 00:33:51.009 --> 00:33:55.380 in the future? Not particularly. I think... It 00:33:55.380 --> 00:33:57.700 sounds a bit, I don't know, poncy or arrogant, 00:33:57.740 --> 00:34:00.720 but because I'm so, what's the word, edgy about 00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:02.400 putting things on my tree without them being 00:34:02.400 --> 00:34:05.539 right, if I'm worried about it, I won't put it 00:34:05.539 --> 00:34:08.059 on my tree at all. Whereas if I'm confident, 00:34:08.179 --> 00:34:13.059 I do. So that's almost enough. If there's a grey 00:34:13.059 --> 00:34:16.480 area, then it's marked down in my research log, 00:34:16.519 --> 00:34:18.920 allegedly. That's obviously gone to pot in the 00:34:18.920 --> 00:34:22.789 last few months. It is a tough one. But I've 00:34:22.789 --> 00:34:24.789 had example, well, I've had that massive example, 00:34:24.889 --> 00:34:27.210 haven't I, where there's a guy called Edward 00:34:27.210 --> 00:34:30.070 who went off to war and died and I've seen him 00:34:30.070 --> 00:34:34.010 in other people's trees and he's married and 00:34:34.010 --> 00:34:37.429 has children and it never happened. But I know 00:34:37.429 --> 00:34:40.110 that because I've got the documents that were 00:34:40.110 --> 00:34:43.429 sent from the king at the time saying Tahir has 00:34:43.429 --> 00:34:46.789 died, et cetera. I guess I should, it's probably 00:34:46.789 --> 00:34:49.090 my duty to scan those documents and put them 00:34:49.090 --> 00:34:51.909 on his file and then other people can see. And 00:34:51.909 --> 00:34:53.349 then they can make up their own minds. Like, 00:34:53.349 --> 00:34:54.889 why would he have these war documents if they're 00:34:54.889 --> 00:34:57.769 not true? I haven't been in touch with anybody 00:34:57.769 --> 00:34:59.909 to say, oh, actually, I've got this and he's 00:34:59.909 --> 00:35:01.889 died, which obviously would be a nice thing to 00:35:01.889 --> 00:35:06.690 do. But I think that's my best example I've got 00:35:06.690 --> 00:35:09.730 of that. I mean, I'd say that's a really good 00:35:09.730 --> 00:35:13.570 thing, how methodical you are, that you can have 00:35:13.570 --> 00:35:15.650 that confidence that your tree does represent. 00:35:16.309 --> 00:35:18.429 I don't mean that in an arrogant way. I'm perfectly 00:35:18.429 --> 00:35:20.389 aware I can make loads and loads of mistakes. 00:35:21.400 --> 00:35:25.019 I won't put anything down on my tree unless it's 00:35:25.019 --> 00:35:27.519 all adding up if I'm even in slight bit of doubt 00:35:27.519 --> 00:35:30.739 I'll just step away from it and do you remember 00:35:30.739 --> 00:35:32.920 we've talked in the past about the genealogical 00:35:32.920 --> 00:35:36.400 proof standard and it has kind of it's a five 00:35:36.400 --> 00:35:40.780 -step plan but part of that is that you you kind 00:35:40.780 --> 00:35:43.119 of write a summary of why you conclude what you 00:35:43.119 --> 00:35:47.070 conclude so I have two different ways I do my 00:35:47.070 --> 00:35:48.670 family history. So when it's all flowing along, 00:35:48.809 --> 00:35:51.090 I have to admit I'm very bad at keeping notes. 00:35:51.130 --> 00:35:53.150 It all seems to be checking out. I don't write 00:35:53.150 --> 00:35:55.409 notes of why I think what I think. It's only 00:35:55.409 --> 00:35:58.329 when I am feeling that there's a kind of point 00:35:58.329 --> 00:36:01.030 of contention that I might write why it's a point 00:36:01.030 --> 00:36:02.610 of contention. So, for instance, if I'm working 00:36:02.610 --> 00:36:04.570 on my tree on ancestry, I'd write it in the notes 00:36:04.570 --> 00:36:06.730 there and say, considering this and considering 00:36:06.730 --> 00:36:09.969 that. So that could be another thing. Maybe we 00:36:09.969 --> 00:36:13.650 should be more like publicise, all of us publicise 00:36:13.650 --> 00:36:16.409 these. So you, just what you've said, you said 00:36:16.409 --> 00:36:18.630 you need to include these images for the Edward 00:36:18.630 --> 00:36:21.130 who died in the First World War, include the 00:36:21.130 --> 00:36:24.269 images, and then on his profile on Ancestry, 00:36:24.369 --> 00:36:27.170 you can include a little summary to go, do these 00:36:27.170 --> 00:36:30.150 papers in my family collection, providing evidence 00:36:30.150 --> 00:36:33.150 that he died, stating the obvious. Yeah. Are 00:36:33.150 --> 00:36:36.070 notes visible to everybody then? No, notes are 00:36:36.070 --> 00:36:38.269 just visible to you, but I'm pretty sure, and 00:36:38.269 --> 00:36:40.070 I haven't done this for ages, like years ago 00:36:40.070 --> 00:36:41.469 I was like, right, I'm going to do this for everybody, 00:36:41.530 --> 00:36:44.219 and of course I didn't. Yeah, the life story 00:36:44.219 --> 00:36:48.639 bit. So on the life story, so you go to somebody's 00:36:48.639 --> 00:36:53.639 profile on Ancestry and the main space, or at 00:36:53.639 --> 00:36:55.820 least the main space that I spend most of my 00:36:55.820 --> 00:36:57.699 time in is on the facts tab. So you've got the 00:36:57.699 --> 00:37:00.000 big grey bar or the big chunky bar at the top 00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:02.639 on the profile. And just below that, there's 00:37:02.639 --> 00:37:05.360 the little white bar which says facts, hint, 00:37:05.579 --> 00:37:07.900 gallery, life story, explore. So most of us probably 00:37:07.900 --> 00:37:10.380 spend most of the time on the facts space where 00:37:10.380 --> 00:37:12.320 we have the timeline, the sources and the relationships. 00:37:12.579 --> 00:37:16.699 If you click life story, then it will have a 00:37:16.699 --> 00:37:20.239 summary based on documentary evidence that we've 00:37:20.239 --> 00:37:22.280 added so far. So there's little drag out stuff 00:37:22.280 --> 00:37:25.380 to give a nice little life story timeline. But 00:37:25.380 --> 00:37:29.099 we can also add so we can create our own extra 00:37:29.099 --> 00:37:32.570 things on there. Yeah. Okay. Or it could be that 00:37:32.570 --> 00:37:36.610 you add those images of the letters from the 00:37:36.610 --> 00:37:39.650 First World War that you have. You could add 00:37:39.650 --> 00:37:42.289 those as a source and then you could add a fact 00:37:42.289 --> 00:37:44.690 and you could tie them up together in your fact 00:37:44.690 --> 00:37:46.429 space on Ancestry and then it would feed through 00:37:46.429 --> 00:37:48.849 to the life story anyway. In the edit bit at 00:37:48.849 --> 00:37:51.289 the top, so the very first entry, you can do 00:37:51.289 --> 00:37:54.050 a little bit of a summary. Yeah, I think for 00:37:54.050 --> 00:37:57.769 me, I'm slowly but surely getting better with 00:37:57.769 --> 00:38:00.739 my use of Ancestry. it's like it's taken me a 00:38:00.739 --> 00:38:02.940 year to get into like using tags hasn't it I've 00:38:02.940 --> 00:38:06.079 only just started on that but for me personally 00:38:06.079 --> 00:38:08.780 I feel like as I get more into it and a bit more 00:38:08.780 --> 00:38:12.420 involved and used to it all I am going to probably 00:38:12.420 --> 00:38:15.019 have more information stored on Ancestry than 00:38:15.019 --> 00:38:17.679 I am going to have on paper or in my research 00:38:17.679 --> 00:38:20.860 log because it just feels for me a natural place 00:38:20.860 --> 00:38:25.110 to come And it is slowly but surely coming, but 00:38:25.110 --> 00:38:27.809 it's equally all over the place at the same time, 00:38:27.829 --> 00:38:30.250 as positive as I with family history, I guess. 00:38:30.590 --> 00:38:33.849 I think we are. And also, if you scroll back 00:38:33.849 --> 00:38:36.130 for any of the family history websites over the 00:38:36.130 --> 00:38:38.349 last 10, 20 years, they've all evolved massively. 00:38:38.510 --> 00:38:41.170 So half of these tools just weren't here to start 00:38:41.170 --> 00:38:43.989 with. Lots of us might be creating family history 00:38:43.989 --> 00:38:45.889 in lots of different spaces. You might have ring 00:38:45.889 --> 00:38:48.769 binders. You might have a desktop computer. We 00:38:48.769 --> 00:38:50.849 might have... An online tree at Ancestry, you 00:38:50.849 --> 00:38:52.389 might have an online tree at Find My Past or 00:38:52.389 --> 00:38:57.650 My Heritage, Happy Search. Over at the Genealogist 00:38:57.650 --> 00:38:59.929 Tree View, WikiTree, there's so many places where 00:38:59.929 --> 00:39:04.090 you can create a tree. Yeah, I think I do. I 00:39:04.090 --> 00:39:06.769 am actually fancying doing this, like adding 00:39:06.769 --> 00:39:10.269 those documents. And in general, I've mentioned 00:39:10.269 --> 00:39:12.909 it before, I've got a few photographs. I do like 00:39:12.909 --> 00:39:15.030 the idea of adding them, not necessarily for 00:39:15.030 --> 00:39:17.550 my own tree development, but I'm quite intrigued 00:39:17.550 --> 00:39:20.449 to see. how those images then branch off and 00:39:20.449 --> 00:39:22.269 connect to other people to see if anyone else 00:39:22.269 --> 00:39:24.829 adopts them because like there is um there's 00:39:24.829 --> 00:39:28.309 a gravestone for my granddad and view of our 00:39:28.309 --> 00:39:30.070 other family members and it was a gravestone 00:39:30.070 --> 00:39:33.570 that my mum and dad got made and put up and that's 00:39:33.570 --> 00:39:35.530 an ancestry this gravestone i've not put it there 00:39:35.530 --> 00:39:37.690 but i've seen it on lots of other people's trees 00:39:37.690 --> 00:39:39.110 and it's like oh my mum and dad paid for that 00:39:39.110 --> 00:39:42.170 and it's interesting to see how it ripples and 00:39:42.170 --> 00:39:44.880 filters through to other people's trees so As 00:39:44.880 --> 00:39:47.079 a little science experiment, I'm quite intrigued 00:39:47.079 --> 00:39:48.900 to see if I can put some old pictures on and 00:39:48.900 --> 00:39:51.619 just see where they lead. And again, I don't 00:39:51.619 --> 00:39:53.860 like to take other people's trees as gospel. 00:39:54.639 --> 00:39:56.760 But if it suddenly starts linking to other people's 00:39:56.760 --> 00:39:58.420 trees, you get a little bit of a hint that you 00:39:58.420 --> 00:40:01.340 are on the right path or if you've got matching 00:40:01.340 --> 00:40:03.900 information or totally different information. 00:40:05.059 --> 00:40:07.000 And with that gravestone even, you could take 00:40:07.000 --> 00:40:08.820 a brand new photo and upload that as well so 00:40:08.820 --> 00:40:10.840 that you feel like you have ownership of the 00:40:10.840 --> 00:40:14.550 image. It's the direct descendant. Because there's 00:40:14.550 --> 00:40:17.010 other people who, unless they're your cousins, 00:40:17.190 --> 00:40:19.849 then they're going to be more distantly related, 00:40:20.070 --> 00:40:22.670 aren't they, to the grandpa whose gravestone 00:40:22.670 --> 00:40:24.650 it is. So there are probably people like me who 00:40:24.650 --> 00:40:28.550 are doing down and out trees and he's their two 00:40:28.550 --> 00:40:31.469 times great granny's grandson or something. Yeah, 00:40:31.610 --> 00:40:34.429 definitely. I've not found anybody else who's 00:40:34.429 --> 00:40:38.130 doing the direct line that I'm doing. So, yeah, 00:40:38.309 --> 00:40:41.630 but equally, just in general now, I'm thinking 00:40:41.630 --> 00:40:44.960 for my homework, I'm saying I'm getting bored 00:40:44.960 --> 00:40:47.679 of all these dates and things, but maybe it'll 00:40:47.679 --> 00:40:49.739 just be good to like go to one set of my third 00:40:49.739 --> 00:40:52.460 time great grandparents and just really dive 00:40:52.460 --> 00:40:55.460 into all their records and flesh them out. That's 00:40:55.460 --> 00:40:58.059 when the stories will come anyway. And I'll probably 00:40:58.059 --> 00:41:00.280 accidentally discover my fourth time great grandparents 00:41:00.280 --> 00:41:04.559 doing that. Quite a few of them. Lots to consider. 00:41:05.340 --> 00:41:08.940 There is a lot to consider, isn't there? There 00:41:08.940 --> 00:41:11.969 is. In the olden days, kind of the golden standard 00:41:11.969 --> 00:41:13.809 would be is if you could collect all of your 00:41:13.809 --> 00:41:16.250 four times great grandparents, you can have 64 00:41:16.250 --> 00:41:18.969 of them. Right. You could do that. It's pretty 00:41:18.969 --> 00:41:20.690 cool if you can get all of them. I don't have 00:41:20.690 --> 00:41:23.809 all of mine. I kind of, I got quite far and then 00:41:23.809 --> 00:41:28.070 I just stopped. Not for any reason, just you 00:41:28.070 --> 00:41:30.170 and me kind of get on with something else. Yeah. 00:41:31.889 --> 00:41:35.289 I've got eight on one side and I can't, it's 00:41:35.289 --> 00:41:36.789 going to take me eight hours to expand my tree 00:41:36.789 --> 00:41:39.420 on the other side to find. What do you have got? 00:41:40.059 --> 00:41:42.880 I mean, that's obviously something to work towards, 00:41:43.079 --> 00:41:45.780 isn't it? And interestingly, so with your three 00:41:45.780 --> 00:41:48.519 times great grandparents, what time period are 00:41:48.519 --> 00:41:51.960 we in? We are in... When are their birth dates 00:41:51.960 --> 00:41:57.699 likely to be? 1824, 18... Oh, this is a really 00:41:57.699 --> 00:42:00.420 cool project for you. What, getting my fourth? 00:42:01.380 --> 00:42:03.260 Who are we talking about? Who's getting born 00:42:03.260 --> 00:42:06.699 in the 1820s? Third times. Third times. Excellent. 00:42:07.639 --> 00:42:10.269 Because... If you concentrated, you know, you 00:42:10.269 --> 00:42:12.050 said you're a bit nervous of the drop -off point 00:42:12.050 --> 00:42:14.309 before the 1841 census, or even you're a bit 00:42:14.309 --> 00:42:16.909 nervous of the 1841 census. Very much so, yes. 00:42:17.070 --> 00:42:19.630 So you're a bit nervous of the 1841 census. And 00:42:19.630 --> 00:42:22.250 then when you go back before, because you're 00:42:22.250 --> 00:42:23.989 so Yorkshire -based, you are talking about the 00:42:23.989 --> 00:42:28.269 1837 English and Welsh civil registration records. 00:42:28.289 --> 00:42:30.670 Before 1837, you're going to have to use parish 00:42:30.670 --> 00:42:32.809 registers. And you've used them a bit already, 00:42:33.010 --> 00:42:35.250 haven't you, to help save a bit of money and 00:42:35.250 --> 00:42:39.280 get quick results? But before 1837, you do not 00:42:39.280 --> 00:42:41.159 have the option of birth, marriage and death 00:42:41.159 --> 00:42:43.440 certificates for them. You're going to have to 00:42:43.440 --> 00:42:46.940 be looking at parish registers. So it will be 00:42:46.940 --> 00:42:50.820 like a massive, immersive little self -directed 00:42:50.820 --> 00:42:55.059 course on parish registers. It sounds terrifying. 00:42:55.300 --> 00:42:59.639 What was that 1837 civic register thing? So on 00:42:59.639 --> 00:43:04.380 the 1st of July. Then across England and Wales, 00:43:04.519 --> 00:43:08.199 that was when the civil registration of birth, 00:43:08.400 --> 00:43:11.280 marriage and deaths came in. So what had happened, 00:43:11.420 --> 00:43:16.400 so if you scroll back to the 1530s, then Thomas 00:43:16.400 --> 00:43:19.380 Cromwell had said, right, we need to have better 00:43:19.380 --> 00:43:23.760 records of baptisms, marriages and burials. And 00:43:23.760 --> 00:43:27.190 that's quite an amazing thing. When you go through 00:43:27.190 --> 00:43:29.469 history, the normal thing is that you're at school 00:43:29.469 --> 00:43:31.889 and you learn about kings and queens and generals 00:43:31.889 --> 00:43:34.110 and admirals and things like that, don't you? 00:43:34.809 --> 00:43:36.969 Bishops, like very prestigious people. That's 00:43:36.969 --> 00:43:40.710 traditionally how history was taught. If you 00:43:40.710 --> 00:43:43.190 go back all those centuries, back to the early 00:43:43.190 --> 00:43:47.150 1500s, Thomas Cromwell is saying, we need everybody 00:43:47.150 --> 00:43:49.829 recorded. It doesn't matter how rich or poor 00:43:49.829 --> 00:43:52.570 they were, what walk of life they're in. anything 00:43:52.570 --> 00:43:55.489 everybody needs to be recorded so that's phenomenal 00:43:55.489 --> 00:43:59.289 and they're not comprehensive and obviously some 00:43:59.289 --> 00:44:01.110 records have got lost over time and all sorts 00:44:01.110 --> 00:44:03.869 of things because they were literally kept in 00:44:03.869 --> 00:44:06.309 a in a chest in a wooden chest in the church 00:44:06.309 --> 00:44:09.510 so you can imagine all sorts can go on and then 00:44:09.510 --> 00:44:12.150 they devised these really cool systems whereby 00:44:12.150 --> 00:44:14.949 there were two and I think maybe even three locks 00:44:14.949 --> 00:44:18.159 on this wooden chest so you'd have not just one 00:44:18.159 --> 00:44:20.579 person with a key who could go in and tamper 00:44:20.579 --> 00:44:22.539 with the records because the records are vital 00:44:22.539 --> 00:44:25.139 for establishing two things. They're vital for 00:44:25.139 --> 00:44:27.500 establishing who are the legitimate children 00:44:27.500 --> 00:44:29.360 of people because if they've got property to 00:44:29.360 --> 00:44:32.320 leave, then the legitimate children are going 00:44:32.320 --> 00:44:35.579 to be the people who are going to inherit and 00:44:35.579 --> 00:44:36.960 the illegitimate children won't. So you don't 00:44:36.960 --> 00:44:40.219 want these records tampered with in case any 00:44:40.219 --> 00:44:42.719 falsifications get in there and the wrong children 00:44:42.719 --> 00:44:46.099 would inherit the property. Obviously there's 00:44:46.099 --> 00:44:48.360 wills, but it's a massive, verifying point having 00:44:48.360 --> 00:44:50.340 the parish registers there the other thing was 00:44:50.340 --> 00:44:54.199 when you get into i think it's the 1600s with 00:44:54.199 --> 00:44:57.380 the act of settlement so this is all like in 00:44:57.380 --> 00:44:59.809 a big historical picture so The time when Thomas 00:44:59.809 --> 00:45:02.289 Cromwell makes it up, you have had the monasteries 00:45:02.289 --> 00:45:05.329 for centuries providing welfare to people who 00:45:05.329 --> 00:45:07.630 fall on hard times and basically kind of like 00:45:07.630 --> 00:45:09.750 a local hospital as well. Then the monasteries 00:45:09.750 --> 00:45:13.309 get destroyed also by Thomas Cromwell. Then you're 00:45:13.309 --> 00:45:15.130 scrolling forward to the 1600s and the Act of 00:45:15.130 --> 00:45:16.670 Settlement comes in. And I'm pretty sure it's 00:45:16.670 --> 00:45:19.250 the 1662. Don't quote me on that. I'll add a 00:45:19.250 --> 00:45:23.170 correction in next time. And so what happens 00:45:23.170 --> 00:45:27.420 here is. If you fall on hard times, then you 00:45:27.420 --> 00:45:29.840 will get removed to your parish of settlement. 00:45:29.920 --> 00:45:33.360 So that's the parish where you were born. Yeah, 00:45:33.400 --> 00:45:35.900 effectively. There's a few little variations. 00:45:36.320 --> 00:45:39.539 Because what they don't want is, let's say you've 00:45:39.539 --> 00:45:41.880 moved down the road 10 miles to a different place. 00:45:42.079 --> 00:45:45.699 You lose your job. You need to go cap in hand 00:45:45.699 --> 00:45:48.900 to... the local parish authorities and say, I 00:45:48.900 --> 00:45:51.800 need some bread. And they don't want you to be 00:45:51.800 --> 00:45:55.639 a charge to those ratepayers because the taxation 00:45:55.639 --> 00:45:58.739 system, in this respect, and who's giving out 00:45:58.739 --> 00:46:01.380 poor relief is very locally based. So everyone 00:46:01.380 --> 00:46:03.019 in that local parish will go, we don't want to 00:46:03.019 --> 00:46:04.639 pay for him because he doesn't come from around 00:46:04.639 --> 00:46:07.719 here. We can't afford that. This is our hard 00:46:07.719 --> 00:46:09.300 -earned money we've earned and we're not paying 00:46:09.300 --> 00:46:10.500 for him. We're only going to pay for our own 00:46:10.500 --> 00:46:13.619 people who were born here. So you would get accompanied 00:46:13.619 --> 00:46:16.460 by the parish constable to the edge of the... 00:46:16.750 --> 00:46:18.929 border of the parish and then the next parish 00:46:18.929 --> 00:46:20.909 constable for the next parish would take you 00:46:20.909 --> 00:46:23.670 on and accompany you back gradually getting you 00:46:23.670 --> 00:46:25.809 back to the parish where you were born and then 00:46:25.809 --> 00:46:27.989 when you get to that parish you can go i'm really 00:46:27.989 --> 00:46:32.050 hungry and i need some bread i know so that's 00:46:32.050 --> 00:46:34.150 why those records started anyways skip back to 00:46:34.150 --> 00:46:35.289 your original question so this would have gone 00:46:35.289 --> 00:46:38.010 on for centuries but by the early 1800s there's 00:46:38.010 --> 00:46:40.449 obviously been lots of industrialization lots 00:46:40.449 --> 00:46:42.750 of people have been on the move the records haven't 00:46:42.750 --> 00:46:46.239 been kept particularly well and so it was decided 00:46:46.239 --> 00:46:48.599 that the state would take over the registration, 00:46:48.780 --> 00:46:51.219 the formal registration of the population's births, 00:46:51.219 --> 00:46:54.119 marriages and deaths. So the 1st of July, the 00:46:54.119 --> 00:46:56.699 Civil Registration Act came into effect across 00:46:56.699 --> 00:47:00.000 England and Wales. In Scotland, it's the 1st 00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:04.360 of January, 1855. And then in Ireland, as normal, 00:47:04.519 --> 00:47:06.579 apologies if that sounds rude, in Ireland it's 00:47:06.579 --> 00:47:09.079 a little bit more complicated because I think 00:47:09.079 --> 00:47:12.010 it's Protestant marriages. started being recorded 00:47:12.010 --> 00:47:15.449 by the state from 1845. And then all of the rest 00:47:15.449 --> 00:47:17.769 of the records, so all of the Catholics and all 00:47:17.769 --> 00:47:20.150 of the Protestants' births and the Protestants' 00:47:20.230 --> 00:47:22.170 deaths, that's 1864. So you have to remember 00:47:22.170 --> 00:47:24.809 all these different start dates. Wow. Off dates. 00:47:25.010 --> 00:47:27.530 Anyway, scooting back to you, why I'm excited 00:47:27.530 --> 00:47:30.269 for you is because you will be able to look at 00:47:30.269 --> 00:47:31.969 these parish registers. And I think you're going 00:47:31.969 --> 00:47:33.650 to, this will be interesting in lots of respects 00:47:33.650 --> 00:47:35.610 because you feel as though your family has been 00:47:35.610 --> 00:47:38.449 very, very locally based. And this is going to 00:47:38.449 --> 00:47:41.860 throw up. a cool picture of precisely how locally 00:47:41.860 --> 00:47:46.300 based or not your family is yeah I do like without 00:47:46.300 --> 00:47:49.059 looking and just guessing I do feel like the 00:47:49.059 --> 00:47:51.980 generation that I've got back to they're the 00:47:51.980 --> 00:47:55.440 people that moved to Yorkshire and stayed there 00:47:55.440 --> 00:47:58.900 I don't know what problems that's going to kick 00:47:58.900 --> 00:48:01.119 up for me for the generation back but I feel 00:48:01.119 --> 00:48:05.019 like that is the overall arching thing that I 00:48:05.019 --> 00:48:07.280 keep seeing like people come from Scotland from 00:48:08.460 --> 00:48:11.940 Lancashire, from wherever. So we will see. So 00:48:11.940 --> 00:48:13.420 you're going to find this interesting in so many 00:48:13.420 --> 00:48:16.619 respects. So let's say you just found somebody 00:48:16.619 --> 00:48:19.559 in your local parish register. So back in the 00:48:19.559 --> 00:48:22.860 day, before everyone had digitised records, you 00:48:22.860 --> 00:48:25.500 wouldn't just be popping in their name, hopping 00:48:25.500 --> 00:48:28.099 directly to that search result, grabbing the 00:48:28.099 --> 00:48:30.960 details, adding to your tree, moving on to the 00:48:30.960 --> 00:48:33.139 next person. What you'd have to do is you'd have 00:48:33.139 --> 00:48:35.760 to scroll through page by page until you found 00:48:35.760 --> 00:48:38.690 your ancestor's details. And this sounds time 00:48:38.690 --> 00:48:41.389 consuming, and it is. But the beauty of it is 00:48:41.389 --> 00:48:44.730 you get a real feel for that parish because you're 00:48:44.730 --> 00:48:47.829 going to see how many baptisms there are in a 00:48:47.829 --> 00:48:49.369 year. There might be eight or there might be 00:48:49.369 --> 00:48:51.989 pages and pages, depending on how large the parish 00:48:51.989 --> 00:48:55.650 is. And you might accidentally spot other family 00:48:55.650 --> 00:48:59.869 names, so the same surname as you, which will 00:48:59.869 --> 00:49:02.050 prick your curiosity because you're like, well, 00:49:02.070 --> 00:49:05.269 are there more kind of nuclear families by this 00:49:05.269 --> 00:49:08.190 name in that community? And if there's lots of 00:49:08.190 --> 00:49:11.250 people by that surname, that's showing you that 00:49:11.250 --> 00:49:13.449 they've been established there for quite a long 00:49:13.449 --> 00:49:17.010 time. If there's nobody else, they're kind of 00:49:17.010 --> 00:49:19.929 blow -ins. They've come there for work. So you're 00:49:19.929 --> 00:49:23.809 going to learn all these things. Yeah? And so 00:49:23.809 --> 00:49:27.070 on Ancestry, you can just use that navigation 00:49:27.070 --> 00:49:29.449 bar at the bottom to page through, you know, 00:49:29.489 --> 00:49:30.769 when it has the little filmstrip thing at the 00:49:30.769 --> 00:49:33.389 bottom of your images, you can just page through 00:49:33.389 --> 00:49:36.519 there to find... what's happening in the nearby 00:49:36.519 --> 00:49:38.360 pages rather than just doing the smash and grab 00:49:38.360 --> 00:49:41.699 of the search result. Okay. Sounds like I'm going 00:49:41.699 --> 00:49:43.599 to need to buy some very strong coffee for this. 00:49:44.519 --> 00:49:47.400 Well, the handwriting can be a bit trickier to 00:49:47.400 --> 00:49:49.880 read, but it's okay. It'll be okay because it 00:49:49.880 --> 00:49:52.039 gets harder and harder. It's like perfectly designed 00:49:52.039 --> 00:49:54.639 as a family history kind of paleography primer 00:49:54.639 --> 00:49:56.360 because the further back you go in time, the 00:49:56.360 --> 00:49:58.659 harder the records get to read. But as you're 00:49:58.659 --> 00:50:00.440 gradually going back in time, you're getting 00:50:00.440 --> 00:50:02.679 better at it. So it's okay, she says mildly. 00:50:02.739 --> 00:50:06.719 It's still really hard to read. Is it key? Oh, 00:50:06.780 --> 00:50:08.699 well, I'll give that a go. Or at least maybe 00:50:08.699 --> 00:50:11.820 start thinking about giving it a go. No, I think 00:50:11.820 --> 00:50:14.219 you're going to really like it. Because you're 00:50:14.219 --> 00:50:18.219 very methodical. You love puzzles. We'll throw 00:50:18.219 --> 00:50:20.780 up those. Can I give you one more little warning 00:50:20.780 --> 00:50:22.500 thing or not? I don't know if this is nice to 00:50:22.500 --> 00:50:25.539 have warnings or not. Go on then. Yeah. Give 00:50:25.539 --> 00:50:30.159 me it. So with the... So the GRO or Free BMD, 00:50:30.159 --> 00:50:31.739 you're used to the fact that you've got a national 00:50:31.739 --> 00:50:34.019 collection. So you go to one website and you 00:50:34.019 --> 00:50:36.699 can search across all of the births for the whole 00:50:36.699 --> 00:50:38.760 of England and Wales, all from one little website. 00:50:38.900 --> 00:50:41.340 That's pretty cool, isn't it? But with parish 00:50:41.340 --> 00:50:45.920 registers, it's much more piecemeal. So what 00:50:45.920 --> 00:50:49.760 you need to establish, this is when you're searching 00:50:49.760 --> 00:50:52.780 within ancestry, you need to establish what parish 00:50:52.780 --> 00:50:55.380 registers do they have for your places of interest. 00:50:55.980 --> 00:50:57.639 So a good way to do that is to go to the card 00:50:57.639 --> 00:51:00.280 catalogue and search on your places of interest. 00:51:01.079 --> 00:51:03.900 Okay. It's going to be a whole new way for me 00:51:03.900 --> 00:51:06.400 to research, really, isn't it? Yeah. Because 00:51:06.400 --> 00:51:08.179 what you don't want to do is go to their main 00:51:08.179 --> 00:51:10.300 search, pop in the name, say you're hoping to 00:51:10.300 --> 00:51:12.579 find a parish register, not find anything, think 00:51:12.579 --> 00:51:14.219 they're not there, or think you've done something 00:51:14.219 --> 00:51:16.320 wrong. And all it is that for your particular 00:51:16.320 --> 00:51:18.599 place, they haven't digitised the records, and 00:51:18.599 --> 00:51:20.039 you're going to have to go to a different website. 00:51:20.599 --> 00:51:23.739 So Find My Past is excellent for parish registers. 00:51:24.619 --> 00:51:26.860 You might want to go to the local branch of your 00:51:26.860 --> 00:51:30.019 family history society. You might want to go 00:51:30.019 --> 00:51:32.320 to FamilySearch. Really, really good for parish 00:51:32.320 --> 00:51:34.840 registers. You're going to have to probably look 00:51:34.840 --> 00:51:36.880 in more places, which is something you already 00:51:36.880 --> 00:51:38.800 do anyway now, even though you didn't used to 00:51:38.800 --> 00:51:40.880 like the idea of that. No, it still terrifies 00:51:40.880 --> 00:51:44.360 me a little bit. But yes, clearly I'm going to 00:51:44.360 --> 00:51:45.820 be coming back with lots of questions on this. 00:51:45.900 --> 00:51:51.159 So let's see how it expands. I think it's going 00:51:51.159 --> 00:51:55.110 to be good. Yeah. Okay. And there's so many, 00:51:55.230 --> 00:51:57.309 I'm going to shut up with all the caveats now. 00:51:58.809 --> 00:52:00.630 And what are you going to do for your homework? 00:52:01.130 --> 00:52:04.969 Oh, goodness. You know, I think I'm going to 00:52:04.969 --> 00:52:08.170 be sticking with my Lintons. So it is down and 00:52:08.170 --> 00:52:10.590 out research, even though it does feel as though 00:52:10.590 --> 00:52:13.769 I'm getting seriously distracted by stories, 00:52:14.070 --> 00:52:16.730 which I am. I will admit I'm getting seriously 00:52:16.730 --> 00:52:18.889 distracted by stories, but it is still down and 00:52:18.889 --> 00:52:21.329 out research. Oh, yeah. Well, it's all really 00:52:21.329 --> 00:52:23.050 fascinating and interesting. I'd rather have 00:52:23.050 --> 00:52:25.769 your stories than my I found his death date. 00:52:25.889 --> 00:52:29.369 So, yeah, it seems like a lot of fun. Well, it 00:52:29.369 --> 00:52:32.750 is a lot of fun, but it is very sideways. True, 00:52:32.869 --> 00:52:35.309 true. But it is down and out research and it 00:52:35.309 --> 00:52:38.969 is going to help me with my DNA, which is to 00:52:38.969 --> 00:52:42.269 go right back at the beginning. Nice one. Yeah. 00:52:42.309 --> 00:52:44.610 So I'm just going to plod on with that. Yeah. 00:52:44.750 --> 00:52:47.349 And if anybody. listening has a project that 00:52:47.349 --> 00:52:49.510 they're working on and they'd love to share what 00:52:49.510 --> 00:52:51.409 they're doing or what they found or anything, 00:52:51.510 --> 00:52:53.590 then do tell us. We absolutely love hearing about 00:52:53.590 --> 00:52:55.449 it, don't we? We really do, yeah. I love the 00:52:55.449 --> 00:52:59.349 community around us. It's great. We do. And literally, 00:52:59.489 --> 00:53:01.289 like, when we get those little PSs on emails 00:53:01.289 --> 00:53:03.110 going, PS, I love the podcast, it's just like, 00:53:03.190 --> 00:53:04.989 yes. Because sometimes we just feel, I mean, 00:53:04.989 --> 00:53:06.130 who's not going to like talking about family 00:53:06.130 --> 00:53:07.630 history? Clearly, we love doing that, but it 00:53:07.630 --> 00:53:08.989 is nice to know that somebody listens to it as 00:53:08.989 --> 00:53:12.530 well. It is. It's lovely. Yeah. Okay. Take care 00:53:12.530 --> 00:53:19.789 then, everybody. Happy researching. Thank you.