WEBVTT 00:00:06.129 --> 00:00:08.970 Hello everybody and welcome to Family Tree Talk, 00:00:09.050 --> 00:00:12.009 your favourite Family Tree podcast. I'm Nathan 00:00:12.009 --> 00:00:14.869 Ward and with me as always is... Helen Tuffy. 00:00:15.210 --> 00:00:18.870 Hello there. Hi Nathan. Hi Helen, you alright? 00:00:19.649 --> 00:00:22.350 I am alright. Well, to be honest, I feel really 00:00:22.350 --> 00:00:25.050 frazzled, but I'm alright. I'm okay. I'm okay. 00:00:25.109 --> 00:00:28.190 Yeah? Yes. Is it Family Tree Frazzled or just 00:00:28.190 --> 00:00:31.079 Life Frazzled? It's family history frazzled. 00:00:31.179 --> 00:00:33.600 It's slightly frazzling me on every front at 00:00:33.600 --> 00:00:37.939 the moment. Oh, wow. Tell me more. Well, I think 00:00:37.939 --> 00:00:40.679 I've got a bit of a cold, so it's making my head 00:00:40.679 --> 00:00:44.100 a bit thick. And so even just doing my own ordinary 00:00:44.100 --> 00:00:46.420 family history, just to do my little project 00:00:46.420 --> 00:00:50.299 to build my family tree forward and out, blah, 00:00:50.380 --> 00:00:52.359 blah, blah. Even that, I'm just like, have I 00:00:52.359 --> 00:00:54.960 done any research before? I can't find them. 00:00:54.979 --> 00:00:57.039 I can't tell which ones my person is. Whatever. 00:00:58.219 --> 00:01:00.719 And then nothing seems to be falling into place. 00:01:01.359 --> 00:01:03.500 So that's just being a bit painful. That's okay. 00:01:04.120 --> 00:01:07.659 And then a few people recently have asked me 00:01:07.659 --> 00:01:09.060 to help them with their family history, which 00:01:09.060 --> 00:01:11.819 I love doing. And I'm just like a complete sucker 00:01:11.819 --> 00:01:14.000 for it. I'm like the sort of person, lots of 00:01:14.000 --> 00:01:15.780 us are, when someone asks for some help, we're 00:01:15.780 --> 00:01:17.019 like, yeah, I'll do it, I'll do it, I'll do it. 00:01:17.060 --> 00:01:20.019 I'll find the answer. And then I am finding things 00:01:20.019 --> 00:01:21.579 for them, but I'm like, oh, I don't think I really 00:01:21.579 --> 00:01:25.340 want to find this for them. Right. Is it dark? 00:01:25.900 --> 00:01:29.500 It's dark. It's really dark. And I did forewarn 00:01:29.500 --> 00:01:31.739 people. I'm like, if you look, you have to really 00:01:31.739 --> 00:01:34.040 be prepared. You could find anything. And we 00:01:34.040 --> 00:01:36.239 all know that. But knowing something in principle 00:01:36.239 --> 00:01:39.560 and then experiencing it is a different thing, 00:01:39.620 --> 00:01:43.219 isn't it? It's tricky. Yeah. So I'm facing all 00:01:43.219 --> 00:01:46.420 the challenges. And my third challenge is, I 00:01:46.420 --> 00:01:48.000 don't know what's happened to me, but I have 00:01:48.000 --> 00:01:52.019 become, I'm just appalled at myself. My research 00:01:52.019 --> 00:01:54.939 look is just not happening. I'm just flipping 00:01:54.939 --> 00:01:57.799 around in a right panic and I'm in a fluster. 00:01:58.099 --> 00:02:02.140 Welcome to the party, pal. We are bad people. 00:02:03.120 --> 00:02:07.680 Do as we say, not as we do. Definitely. Oh, goodness. 00:02:08.000 --> 00:02:10.599 Anyway, how about you? Well, I think this must 00:02:10.599 --> 00:02:13.319 be the theme for today's podcast because I'm 00:02:13.319 --> 00:02:17.340 all over the place. Simple tasks seem very confusing. 00:02:18.020 --> 00:02:20.819 I've got very little done. on my family tree 00:02:20.819 --> 00:02:23.780 because I've just confused myself, the more I 00:02:23.780 --> 00:02:27.620 try to rectify the problems or look somewhere 00:02:27.620 --> 00:02:30.020 else, the more I add to my sort of like, well, 00:02:30.039 --> 00:02:31.400 I don't know what I'm doing here. This is just 00:02:31.400 --> 00:02:33.539 weird. Everything's just seemed really hard this 00:02:33.539 --> 00:02:36.159 week. Maybe it's just the moon. Who knows? But 00:02:36.159 --> 00:02:39.319 yeah. Can I tell you something else? This kind 00:02:39.319 --> 00:02:40.840 of made me laugh, but you know, you're like, 00:02:40.879 --> 00:02:44.379 I give up now. So having done my own useless 00:02:44.379 --> 00:02:46.060 research and not getting anywhere with one of 00:02:46.060 --> 00:02:48.520 my ancestors, I was like, okay. I'm going to 00:02:48.520 --> 00:02:50.979 look at somebody else's tree. And I don't really 00:02:50.979 --> 00:02:54.800 like doing that, but I did. And then the ancestor 00:02:54.800 --> 00:03:00.460 who I can't find was born in 1875. And I have 00:03:00.460 --> 00:03:04.300 their birth register entry, born in Scotland. 00:03:04.819 --> 00:03:07.979 But the person's tree I looked at has them marrying 00:03:07.979 --> 00:03:12.479 their wife called Catherine three years before 00:03:12.479 --> 00:03:14.460 they were born. I'm just like, oh, man, I'm not 00:03:14.460 --> 00:03:18.680 the only one who's confused. Oh, man. Well, we've 00:03:18.680 --> 00:03:20.180 all been there. I mean, I said it last week, 00:03:20.199 --> 00:03:22.060 didn't I? I had a guy who died a year before 00:03:22.060 --> 00:03:25.240 his child was born. Yeah, it's so easy to do, 00:03:25.319 --> 00:03:27.900 isn't it? It's terrifying. It is. I'm going to 00:03:27.900 --> 00:03:29.400 start with some positivity, though, even though 00:03:29.400 --> 00:03:31.759 we're just all getting confused. Yeah. What? 00:03:31.979 --> 00:03:35.060 Guess what, Helen? Oh, I don't even want to hear 00:03:35.060 --> 00:03:37.360 it. I know what the answer is. I'm back up to 00:03:37.360 --> 00:03:40.550 9 .9. Oh. I thought you were going to say you 00:03:40.550 --> 00:03:41.949 were elite. I'm slightly relieved you're only 00:03:41.949 --> 00:03:46.449 9 .9, but she says meanly. It's all mean, mean 00:03:46.449 --> 00:03:51.610 and rubbish. How dare you? Yeah, no, like I said 00:03:51.610 --> 00:03:53.469 last week, I must have been on the edge, like 00:03:53.469 --> 00:03:56.110 literally add one ancestor and it'll drop until 00:03:56.110 --> 00:03:58.169 I put my details in because I didn't do much 00:03:58.169 --> 00:04:00.949 at all and it's gone back up again. I did look 00:04:00.949 --> 00:04:03.110 at some of the hints it suggested, like I did 00:04:03.110 --> 00:04:06.250 have a duplicate and then I added a record from 00:04:06.250 --> 00:04:07.830 my granddad, which is a bit weird because there's 00:04:07.830 --> 00:04:09.860 obviously... The more recent people, it's harder 00:04:09.860 --> 00:04:12.979 to add crosses to. And it's gone back up. So 00:04:12.979 --> 00:04:15.539 that's my bit of positive news. Shall I delve 00:04:15.539 --> 00:04:19.220 into my weirdness now? Yes. Can we quickly stick 00:04:19.220 --> 00:04:20.800 with tree scores? So mine, I can't remember what 00:04:20.800 --> 00:04:22.540 it was before, but I was pleased to note that 00:04:22.540 --> 00:04:24.439 it was nine and I have been in the eights for 00:04:24.439 --> 00:04:26.420 a while. And I can't remember if I'd gone up 00:04:26.420 --> 00:04:30.019 to nine a while ago or whether I hadn't. Anyway, 00:04:30.100 --> 00:04:31.959 when I saw it was nine, I said, oh, I'm pleased 00:04:31.959 --> 00:04:33.819 about that. Oh, that's brilliant. I think you 00:04:33.819 --> 00:04:35.319 said you were in the eights last time. I think 00:04:35.319 --> 00:04:36.759 I was in the eights. I don't think I've been 00:04:36.759 --> 00:04:40.680 in the nines before. So I think this is a chink 00:04:40.680 --> 00:04:42.920 of light in my dark tunnel of family history 00:04:42.920 --> 00:04:45.220 at the moment. You don't need a research log. 00:04:46.160 --> 00:04:49.579 Anyway, you crack on with how you're getting 00:04:49.579 --> 00:04:53.040 on. I mean. This could be like the worst conversation 00:04:53.040 --> 00:04:55.500 ever because it's so confusing. It isn't. It 00:04:55.500 --> 00:04:57.939 probably really isn't. I'm going to take notes 00:04:57.939 --> 00:04:59.899 while you talk. That's the only way I can follow 00:04:59.899 --> 00:05:02.100 the train of thought. I'm not even sure I'm going 00:05:02.100 --> 00:05:03.379 to be able to follow my train of thought here. 00:05:04.079 --> 00:05:06.500 So I got all my third time great grandparents. 00:05:06.860 --> 00:05:09.399 We've discussed this, blah, blah, blah. And then 00:05:09.399 --> 00:05:11.839 I wanted to obviously, it was, it was tree score 00:05:11.839 --> 00:05:13.759 related, but I thought, what, what's my next 00:05:13.759 --> 00:05:16.120 goal? I'm going to step back and I'm going to 00:05:16.120 --> 00:05:19.139 try and get the death dates for all my second 00:05:19.139 --> 00:05:21.800 time's great grandparents. because I'm actually 00:05:21.800 --> 00:05:25.439 missing quite a lot of their death dates so I 00:05:25.439 --> 00:05:29.980 started on that path and stumbled quite quickly 00:05:29.980 --> 00:05:33.300 to be honest I'm really struggling to find death 00:05:33.300 --> 00:05:36.139 dates so once I've gone through my little rant 00:05:36.139 --> 00:05:38.199 it might be worth you telling me actually what 00:05:38.199 --> 00:05:41.040 I should be doing or because I'm finding it hard 00:05:41.040 --> 00:05:43.600 to find and I too have been cheeky cheeky and 00:05:43.600 --> 00:05:45.680 looked at other people's trees because they seem 00:05:45.680 --> 00:05:48.829 to have the death dates and I don't but Obviously, 00:05:48.829 --> 00:05:50.670 I've not written them in my tree because I don't 00:05:50.670 --> 00:05:55.269 do that. Anyway, so I tried a few, failed dramatically, 00:05:55.329 --> 00:05:58.170 couldn't find the death date. And then I got 00:05:58.170 --> 00:06:01.949 to Joseph Ward and Mary Ann Blackburn. And I'm 00:06:01.949 --> 00:06:04.350 like, cool, I'm going to look for these guys. 00:06:05.149 --> 00:06:07.350 And I must have had a bit of progress with it 00:06:07.350 --> 00:06:11.149 because I stuck with them. But the problem is, 00:06:11.370 --> 00:06:15.329 and this is my own fault, my own confusion, Mary 00:06:15.329 --> 00:06:20.069 Ann Blackburn's parents. I called Joseph and 00:06:20.069 --> 00:06:23.089 Mary as well. So I've got Joseph and Mary and 00:06:23.089 --> 00:06:25.009 Mary's parents are also called Joseph and Mary. 00:06:26.069 --> 00:06:29.569 This then led me to find a little naughty naughty 00:06:29.569 --> 00:06:32.269 that I'd done where on my third time great grandparents, 00:06:32.589 --> 00:06:36.470 I didn't have Mary's surname. So she was called 00:06:36.470 --> 00:06:40.750 Mary Blackburn. So now I have two Mary Blackburns 00:06:40.750 --> 00:06:44.410 in my tree. Ancestry is having a hissy fit, throwing 00:06:44.410 --> 00:06:47.069 me up hints and all sorts. for the same person 00:06:47.069 --> 00:06:49.350 because it's two different people. Oh, sorry, 00:06:49.470 --> 00:06:51.529 the same hints for two different people. It was 00:06:51.529 --> 00:06:55.009 all a bit chaotic. So I went and found, eventually, 00:06:55.269 --> 00:07:00.410 I found, I eventually found her surname again. 00:07:00.970 --> 00:07:02.990 I might have cheated and looked at someone else's 00:07:02.990 --> 00:07:06.350 tree, but then I, because I had that hint of 00:07:06.350 --> 00:07:09.230 what the actual name was, Ancestry was actually 00:07:09.230 --> 00:07:11.050 bringing it up, saying this is probably the parent's 00:07:11.050 --> 00:07:13.790 name. But then I went and found documents that 00:07:13.790 --> 00:07:17.889 related to the marriage of Joseph Blackburn and 00:07:17.889 --> 00:07:20.269 Mary J. Dickman. This is actually what I did. 00:07:20.290 --> 00:07:22.750 I was a good lad here. I did some research. I 00:07:22.750 --> 00:07:25.350 think I might have even found a document and 00:07:25.350 --> 00:07:28.089 put it on as a source, which, you know, I said 00:07:28.089 --> 00:07:29.310 I wasn't going to do. And then I said, oh, I'm 00:07:29.310 --> 00:07:31.470 going to do it. So I did that. I went and found 00:07:31.470 --> 00:07:36.269 them on Free BMD. And it was it was in Newcastle, 00:07:36.269 --> 00:07:38.579 I think they got married. So I think I must have 00:07:38.579 --> 00:07:41.379 had the reference for one of them on Ancestry, 00:07:41.500 --> 00:07:44.800 you know, where it says, like, 10B, page 107. 00:07:44.819 --> 00:07:48.779 I had that. So I went and compared it for Joseph 00:07:48.779 --> 00:07:52.060 Blackburn on Free BMD, and it gave me the same 00:07:52.060 --> 00:07:54.779 reference. But I'm like, the chances of that 00:07:54.779 --> 00:07:58.300 page having two people with those names is very 00:07:58.300 --> 00:08:00.100 slim. So I'm going to take that as gospel, and 00:08:00.100 --> 00:08:01.600 that's when they got married, and that's her 00:08:01.600 --> 00:08:04.000 surname. So that's how I discovered that. Quite 00:08:04.000 --> 00:08:08.439 happy with that. But in trying to untangle the 00:08:08.439 --> 00:08:11.560 death dates and who was who, I was just getting 00:08:11.560 --> 00:08:14.579 so confused. Again, this was because it was Mary 00:08:14.579 --> 00:08:17.180 Blackburn and Mary Blackburn. And I was just 00:08:17.180 --> 00:08:18.560 getting confused. I was like, oh, she married 00:08:18.560 --> 00:08:21.720 Joseph and they got married in Newcastle. That's 00:08:21.720 --> 00:08:24.019 fine. And then I look at it and I'm on the wrong 00:08:24.019 --> 00:08:26.720 tree. I'm on the wrong layer. They got married 00:08:26.720 --> 00:08:29.160 in Carver Church, obviously. And I'm like, well, 00:08:29.180 --> 00:08:30.680 if he got married in Carver Church, then he can't 00:08:30.680 --> 00:08:32.340 be the parents because they got married after 00:08:32.340 --> 00:08:34.320 the children were born. And I was just confusing 00:08:34.320 --> 00:08:38.559 the two layers so much. All because I'd put this 00:08:38.559 --> 00:08:42.000 one surname in that I didn't have. Well, you 00:08:42.000 --> 00:08:44.279 know, I put a married surname. It just sent me 00:08:44.279 --> 00:08:47.240 round and round and I was in chaos. And I started 00:08:47.240 --> 00:08:48.720 writing my notes in the front of my notebook. 00:08:48.899 --> 00:08:51.340 And then I decided halfway through, I was going 00:08:51.340 --> 00:08:52.720 to write my notes in the back of my notebook. 00:08:52.860 --> 00:08:55.889 So my notes are in two different locations. For 00:08:55.889 --> 00:08:57.750 no apparent reason other than that my mind was 00:08:57.750 --> 00:09:01.730 frazzled. It was just a big mess. That's it, 00:09:01.769 --> 00:09:05.970 that's my story. Well, you get at least one point. 00:09:06.029 --> 00:09:07.669 I mean, you might get five points out of ten 00:09:07.669 --> 00:09:10.950 for at least writing down some notes. That's 00:09:10.950 --> 00:09:14.669 good. Then, from the top, should we do a... Let's 00:09:14.669 --> 00:09:16.389 try and work it out together. What would you 00:09:16.389 --> 00:09:18.250 do next time so that you didn't have this headache? 00:09:18.330 --> 00:09:20.429 I think we have talked about it. So you've popped 00:09:20.429 --> 00:09:23.090 in her married name. Going back to your three 00:09:23.090 --> 00:09:25.009 times great granny and you didn't have a surname, 00:09:25.090 --> 00:09:27.409 you popped in her married surname in the surname 00:09:27.409 --> 00:09:29.990 thing. And that was one of the things which helped 00:09:29.990 --> 00:09:32.929 to get you in a muddle. And what would you do 00:09:32.929 --> 00:09:35.730 next time if you didn't know her surname? Not 00:09:35.730 --> 00:09:39.570 put it in. I don't normally do that. I'm a bit 00:09:39.570 --> 00:09:42.360 of a stickler for all that stuff. I don't know 00:09:42.360 --> 00:09:44.799 why I did it. And because because I saw it in 00:09:44.799 --> 00:09:46.879 there, I just presumed I'd done it correctly. 00:09:47.019 --> 00:09:49.960 But oh, my God. Do you know what as well? This 00:09:49.960 --> 00:09:52.580 could be a prime example. So I remember we have 00:09:52.580 --> 00:09:54.759 actually had this conversation weeks or months 00:09:54.759 --> 00:09:56.759 ago about what to do when you don't know the 00:09:56.759 --> 00:09:59.419 mother's name. And just it's fine to leave it 00:09:59.419 --> 00:10:01.340 blank until you have got some. It's better to 00:10:01.340 --> 00:10:03.220 leave it blank until you actually do find out. 00:10:03.600 --> 00:10:06.039 Partly, as you say, you think you've you think 00:10:06.039 --> 00:10:07.700 you've verified, you think you've done due diligence 00:10:07.700 --> 00:10:09.879 to get that name in there on your tree. If you 00:10:09.879 --> 00:10:12.370 have put it on your tree. So this could be a 00:10:12.370 --> 00:10:15.549 prime example of research you did earlier on 00:10:15.549 --> 00:10:21.370 in your research journey when you just gradually 00:10:21.370 --> 00:10:23.210 just learn tips and tricks and skills and everything, 00:10:23.330 --> 00:10:25.649 don't you? And it could be something you added 00:10:25.649 --> 00:10:27.710 at that stage and then you went off to other 00:10:27.710 --> 00:10:29.450 branches of your tree. In the meantime, your 00:10:29.450 --> 00:10:32.269 research skills get better and better. And then 00:10:32.269 --> 00:10:33.750 you go back to your earlier research you did 00:10:33.750 --> 00:10:37.149 and you go, what am I doing? Yeah. Yeah, 100%. 00:10:37.149 --> 00:10:40.340 It could have been that. it's just because it 00:10:40.340 --> 00:10:42.759 is very unlike me to actually well sorry yes 00:10:42.759 --> 00:10:44.500 the current version of me it's very unlike the 00:10:44.500 --> 00:10:46.059 current version of me to actually do that so 00:10:46.059 --> 00:10:48.820 yeah early dolls maybe I got a quick a quick 00:10:48.820 --> 00:10:51.700 lead and just plonked it in like I can imagine 00:10:51.700 --> 00:10:53.240 it maybe it was on the census and I was just 00:10:53.240 --> 00:10:55.679 like yeah yeah Marianne Blackburn Joseph Blackburn 00:10:55.679 --> 00:10:58.779 tick tick tick yes add them to my tree without 00:10:58.779 --> 00:11:01.000 considering that that wasn't her maiden name 00:11:01.000 --> 00:11:05.559 and I'm also impressed about you using the volume 00:11:05.559 --> 00:11:07.639 number and the page number when you're looking 00:11:07.639 --> 00:11:13.330 at the marriage indexes to um cross -check you 00:11:13.330 --> 00:11:15.490 know help shore up the fact that you're that 00:11:15.490 --> 00:11:18.450 you've got that marital couple there yeah cool 00:11:18.450 --> 00:11:21.250 but that's my hack for not spending money yeah 00:11:21.250 --> 00:11:23.169 it's like i want the marriage certificate but 00:11:23.169 --> 00:11:25.029 if i know they're on the same page in the same 00:11:25.029 --> 00:11:28.269 volume on the same year this is how they are 00:11:28.269 --> 00:11:31.870 getting married aren't they yeah if you've got 00:11:31.870 --> 00:11:34.960 the information from elsewhere Yes, I needed 00:11:34.960 --> 00:11:37.639 information for one of them because it did for 00:11:37.639 --> 00:11:41.559 some reason appear on Ancestry for the other. 00:11:41.919 --> 00:11:45.720 Yeah. So it's quite helpful. I think hacks to 00:11:45.720 --> 00:11:49.019 help stave off spending money are always to be 00:11:49.019 --> 00:11:53.019 welcomed. Definitely. Well, I feel like looking 00:11:53.019 --> 00:11:56.279 at my second time great grandparents, I'm going 00:11:56.279 --> 00:11:59.559 to be spending a few pennies for the death dates. 00:12:00.340 --> 00:12:05.509 Maybe. And should we have a little mull over? 00:12:05.629 --> 00:12:09.070 I love hacks which save money, partly because 00:12:09.070 --> 00:12:11.669 they enable all of us to crack on with our research, 00:12:11.710 --> 00:12:13.190 even if it's getting near the end of the month 00:12:13.190 --> 00:12:14.610 or something. We haven't got anything to hold 00:12:14.610 --> 00:12:17.129 us up. Or if we've spent all our pocket money 00:12:17.129 --> 00:12:19.669 for that month on Fabby History, then we can 00:12:19.669 --> 00:12:23.529 carry on making discoveries. But do you want 00:12:23.529 --> 00:12:26.470 to give me what... So let's say you did buy that 00:12:26.470 --> 00:12:29.309 marriage certificate. What extra details would 00:12:29.309 --> 00:12:32.529 you get which would be cool for your... For your 00:12:32.529 --> 00:12:34.710 family tree, which you're not going to get by 00:12:34.710 --> 00:12:38.529 just sticking with the index. I would get their 00:12:38.529 --> 00:12:43.690 father's names. Yeah. Yeah. I would get some 00:12:43.690 --> 00:12:47.470 witnesses. I would get the actual date of the 00:12:47.470 --> 00:12:51.450 marriage. Yeah. Yes, it's everything. Oh, great. 00:12:51.950 --> 00:12:54.710 This feels like a spontaneous test. It wasn't 00:12:54.710 --> 00:12:56.690 supposed to be a test. But I think it's just 00:12:56.690 --> 00:12:58.570 a useful exercise. It's partly useful for me. 00:12:58.610 --> 00:13:01.470 I don't know any answers to them. Nathan's going 00:13:01.470 --> 00:13:02.450 to tell me what he did and I'm just going to 00:13:02.450 --> 00:13:04.629 ask him questions about it. The other thing is, 00:13:04.710 --> 00:13:08.129 as well as ordering a marriage certificate, particularly 00:13:08.129 --> 00:13:09.629 when we're thinking about the Victorian era, 00:13:09.710 --> 00:13:12.500 when... There's still a lot of marriages happening 00:13:12.500 --> 00:13:15.200 in, this is a big clue, in church situations. 00:13:15.419 --> 00:13:19.720 Where else might we look for details of somebody's 00:13:19.720 --> 00:13:23.620 marriage? We could look at the parish records. 00:13:24.059 --> 00:13:28.460 Yay! I actually wouldn't have got that. But we 00:13:28.460 --> 00:13:31.139 could, and what year was this again? I copped 00:13:31.139 --> 00:13:32.299 it and you've mentioned a year, haven't you? 00:13:32.320 --> 00:13:33.940 I haven't mentioned a year. It's going to be 00:13:33.940 --> 00:13:36.879 post -1837, we know that, because you're talking 00:13:36.879 --> 00:13:40.639 about free BMD, aren't you? Yeah, Joseph. This 00:13:40.639 --> 00:13:43.320 is the irritation. Joseph G. Ward and Mary Ann 00:13:43.320 --> 00:13:51.399 Blackburn were born 1857 and 1868. So they got 00:13:51.399 --> 00:13:55.899 married sometime after them. So the parish registers 00:13:55.899 --> 00:13:58.460 will be nice and detailed and give you pretty 00:13:58.460 --> 00:14:01.500 much the same information. And it depends whether 00:14:01.500 --> 00:14:05.360 they've been digitised on ancestry, because that's 00:14:05.360 --> 00:14:08.399 the one that you currently... subscribe to but 00:14:08.399 --> 00:14:09.980 otherwise you could look on other places you 00:14:09.980 --> 00:14:14.399 can family search you could look on find my past 00:14:14.399 --> 00:14:16.799 which has fantastic collections of parish registers 00:14:16.799 --> 00:14:20.860 you could look in the local family history society 00:14:20.860 --> 00:14:24.200 which you've mentioned a few times and sometimes 00:14:24.200 --> 00:14:27.940 they will have records that they have made indexes 00:14:27.940 --> 00:14:30.399 for so you might not see the beautiful old scanned 00:14:30.399 --> 00:14:32.399 images in the parish register but they might 00:14:32.399 --> 00:14:35.019 have typed them up with extensive detail in there 00:14:35.450 --> 00:14:37.429 It depends on how much detail they decided to 00:14:37.429 --> 00:14:40.250 include. But you could become a member of your 00:14:40.250 --> 00:14:41.990 local family history society, which won't cost 00:14:41.990 --> 00:14:44.990 very much, like £10, £20 for the whole year. 00:14:45.190 --> 00:14:47.070 So that's like a month of an ancestry membership. 00:14:47.450 --> 00:14:49.929 And you could get lots of access to members -only 00:14:49.929 --> 00:14:53.809 material. You could also, if you were in luck, 00:14:53.830 --> 00:14:56.289 see there's an online parish clerk for your area 00:14:56.289 --> 00:14:59.230 of the country. So most areas of the country 00:14:59.230 --> 00:15:00.990 don't have one. But if you have Lancashire ancestors, 00:15:01.230 --> 00:15:04.490 you're in super luck because they have loads 00:15:04.490 --> 00:15:07.289 of... typed up records, like typed up information 00:15:07.289 --> 00:15:10.470 for all these things like parish registers. So 00:15:10.470 --> 00:15:13.509 it's useful and free, really good. Sounds good 00:15:13.509 --> 00:15:16.669 to me. I'm just trying to think of money -saving 00:15:16.669 --> 00:15:20.009 hacks to keep the research ball rolling. Yeah. 00:15:20.289 --> 00:15:22.590 I mean, it's more the death records that are 00:15:22.590 --> 00:15:26.610 my big wrestle. Because death records are quite 00:15:26.610 --> 00:15:29.129 tricky if you don't have a... I might be being 00:15:29.129 --> 00:15:31.070 daft here, but if you don't have a will or you 00:15:31.070 --> 00:15:34.240 don't have... Oh, I don't know. I just, I don't 00:15:34.240 --> 00:15:35.919 know what records are giving me the death dates. 00:15:35.960 --> 00:15:38.179 I think that's why I'm struggling. They're not 00:15:38.179 --> 00:15:41.019 coming up in the hints. And then there are a 00:15:41.019 --> 00:15:42.899 few burial records and I keep on getting this 00:15:42.899 --> 00:15:46.919 UK and Ireland find a grave index thing. And 00:15:46.919 --> 00:15:49.279 I look at them and there's a very concrete burial 00:15:49.279 --> 00:15:51.440 and death date. But I can't look at a document 00:15:51.440 --> 00:15:54.860 from that. And I can't. I found one, I think, 00:15:54.879 --> 00:15:58.139 where it actually had the sun. The sun was referenced. 00:15:58.220 --> 00:16:00.100 In fact, it might have actually been Mary J. 00:16:00.179 --> 00:16:02.799 Blackburn. The sun was referenced anyway in. 00:16:03.210 --> 00:16:06.090 the burial thing for her because he was then 00:16:06.090 --> 00:16:08.690 buried in the same church with a different grave 00:16:08.690 --> 00:16:11.149 somewhere so it linked and I was like all right 00:16:11.149 --> 00:16:13.549 great I can do that I can 100 % say that's correct 00:16:13.549 --> 00:16:17.049 but the other ones it's just like I want to say 00:16:17.049 --> 00:16:18.929 it's correct but I'm not willing to put it on 00:16:18.929 --> 00:16:21.289 my tree because there's no link to anybody else 00:16:21.289 --> 00:16:24.389 or apart from maybe locality there's nothing 00:16:24.389 --> 00:16:28.269 there I do I do agree with you I find um I find 00:16:28.269 --> 00:16:31.950 like the national probate calendar um when you're 00:16:31.950 --> 00:16:35.169 lucky enough to get them, they're a little nugget, 00:16:35.169 --> 00:16:36.789 aren't they? They're like a little treasure cave 00:16:36.789 --> 00:16:39.330 of information because there's so many details 00:16:39.330 --> 00:16:41.690 you can cross -refer and feel confident that 00:16:41.690 --> 00:16:44.730 it's your ancestor. And sometimes, as you say, 00:16:44.809 --> 00:16:46.610 gravestones are really good when they have... 00:16:46.610 --> 00:16:48.590 I didn't really mention gravestones, but gravestones 00:16:48.590 --> 00:16:51.970 are really good for cross -referencing family 00:16:51.970 --> 00:16:56.009 members. But it can be hard if you've got a common 00:16:56.009 --> 00:16:59.179 name. It can be really hard to... Try and make 00:16:59.179 --> 00:17:01.720 sure you've definitely got your person. Yeah. 00:17:02.539 --> 00:17:04.660 And then, like, Ancestry doesn't like me at all. 00:17:05.099 --> 00:17:10.240 When I go to look at Joseph George Ward, I know 00:17:10.240 --> 00:17:12.700 I shouldn't take hints as the thing, but when 00:17:12.700 --> 00:17:14.440 I go in there, it says, oh, you've got 20 hints 00:17:14.440 --> 00:17:16.160 or something like that. You go in, every single 00:17:16.160 --> 00:17:17.940 one's for somebody else who's married somebody 00:17:17.940 --> 00:17:21.019 called Isabel. Not even in my area. It's just 00:17:21.019 --> 00:17:23.460 all wrong. So every single hint's wrong. It's 00:17:23.460 --> 00:17:25.180 like, I've got a possible death date. No, you 00:17:25.180 --> 00:17:27.279 don't. That's not mine. And I know that's when 00:17:27.279 --> 00:17:29.619 I should start searching myself properly. Do 00:17:29.619 --> 00:17:32.539 you press ignore, ignore, ignore? No, actually, 00:17:32.660 --> 00:17:34.640 maybe I should start doing that. I just sort 00:17:34.640 --> 00:17:37.039 of look at them and just make some sort of muttering 00:17:37.039 --> 00:17:41.900 sound under my breath and go off. No, yeah. Naughty. 00:17:42.680 --> 00:17:45.680 So, yeah, I just feel it's been a bit of a stumbling 00:17:45.680 --> 00:17:49.480 block with everything. I added... Joseph Blackburn, 00:17:49.759 --> 00:17:52.180 that's, oh my God, Mary Ann Blackburn's dad. 00:17:52.319 --> 00:17:54.960 It still confuses me. I know what I'm doing though, 00:17:55.000 --> 00:17:58.859 apparently. I found his, Nathan pauses for great 00:17:58.859 --> 00:18:00.980 effect. I found his, this is the one, I found 00:18:00.980 --> 00:18:02.900 his marriage, didn't I? That's what I'm talking 00:18:02.900 --> 00:18:06.579 about, to Mary J. Dickman, who I now know her 00:18:06.579 --> 00:18:11.119 surname. Yeah. And... So I took a screen grab 00:18:11.119 --> 00:18:14.119 of the image from Free BMD because I thought, 00:18:14.200 --> 00:18:16.380 right, this isn't appearing on Ancestry. I need 00:18:16.380 --> 00:18:19.400 to know how I found this information. So I'll 00:18:19.400 --> 00:18:21.339 take that image and I'm going to make the bold 00:18:21.339 --> 00:18:24.279 step and put it on my tree. So I've added it 00:18:24.279 --> 00:18:28.200 to the timeline. So the image of it appears on 00:18:28.200 --> 00:18:31.380 the timeline for the marriage. So I've attached, 00:18:31.539 --> 00:18:34.019 I've put a fact. The fact is gets married to 00:18:34.019 --> 00:18:37.700 Mary. I've attached the media, showing life story. 00:18:37.859 --> 00:18:41.059 So that appears. But I feel like I've done it 00:18:41.059 --> 00:18:43.420 wrong. Like it's not appearing in the middle 00:18:43.420 --> 00:18:46.339 boxes of source. Oh, that's easy. All you need 00:18:46.339 --> 00:18:49.160 to do is go to your middle columns. You're on 00:18:49.160 --> 00:18:51.859 the person's profile on Ancestry. Go to the middle 00:18:51.859 --> 00:18:55.059 column and then where it says source and there'll 00:18:55.059 --> 00:18:57.740 be a little plus sign. Press that sign, add a 00:18:57.740 --> 00:19:00.900 source and you can write what it is. So it's 00:19:00.900 --> 00:19:05.599 a marriage index entry. And you can put the URL 00:19:05.599 --> 00:19:08.039 that it's free BMD and you can put any other 00:19:08.039 --> 00:19:10.019 details you have. So like the volume number and 00:19:10.019 --> 00:19:12.940 the page number and any other details. We'll 00:19:12.940 --> 00:19:15.380 have like a very quick source citation thing. 00:19:15.440 --> 00:19:17.400 It's actually quite nice. It's not too overwhelming. 00:19:17.460 --> 00:19:21.819 You can click through and get more fields if 00:19:21.819 --> 00:19:25.400 you want to build a more precise source. But 00:19:25.400 --> 00:19:28.859 anything is better than nothing. My normal philosophy 00:19:28.859 --> 00:19:31.400 is just like... Please all of us try and add 00:19:31.400 --> 00:19:36.599 our sources. And then you can go back to your 00:19:36.599 --> 00:19:39.359 timeline where you've got that marriage detail 00:19:39.359 --> 00:19:43.119 and the little image and you can edit it and 00:19:43.119 --> 00:19:45.019 you can go add source at that point. And when 00:19:45.019 --> 00:19:47.220 you go add source, it'll bring up a list of all 00:19:47.220 --> 00:19:50.140 the sources that you have for that person because 00:19:50.140 --> 00:19:51.980 you just created that source, haven't you? And 00:19:51.980 --> 00:19:54.240 you'll just press add and then it will link the 00:19:54.240 --> 00:19:56.910 source to the fact. Ah, right. That's really 00:19:56.910 --> 00:19:59.210 good. I wish I wasn't telling you that, though, 00:19:59.230 --> 00:20:01.470 because I think it might improve your tree score 00:20:01.470 --> 00:20:04.630 yet further, having these really shored up facts. 00:20:04.769 --> 00:20:07.809 And I shouldn't have said that. Can we just delete 00:20:07.809 --> 00:20:10.269 that bit from the podcast? You're mean. You're 00:20:10.269 --> 00:20:14.450 really mean. That's cool. I now got a little 00:20:14.450 --> 00:20:17.190 line linking the other song. Yes, because you've 00:20:17.190 --> 00:20:21.009 got a source for the fact. It's going to be so 00:20:21.009 --> 00:20:23.569 unbearable when he gets to his elite score on 00:20:23.569 --> 00:20:27.079 the Ancestry tree. I mean, I'm clearly not. I've 00:20:27.079 --> 00:20:30.059 got so many missing death dates, but I am going 00:20:30.059 --> 00:20:31.839 to add all my media now and do that. That's going 00:20:31.839 --> 00:20:36.759 to be very exciting. Yeah. And it's really doable, 00:20:36.799 --> 00:20:39.980 isn't it? I guess so. I mean, I'll go away from 00:20:39.980 --> 00:20:41.579 this and then I'll be confused again and sort 00:20:41.579 --> 00:20:43.759 of forget everything. But yeah, I like the sound 00:20:43.759 --> 00:20:54.880 of that. We've had a little... calm myself down 00:20:54.880 --> 00:20:58.140 an epiphany of so with my terrible research and 00:20:58.140 --> 00:21:00.019 if i'm honest it's not just the last week i've 00:21:00.019 --> 00:21:02.900 been falling off the wagon for a few weeks or 00:21:02.900 --> 00:21:05.220 maybe even a few months maybe it's just not been 00:21:05.220 --> 00:21:07.940 i haven't been doing very well with keeping organized 00:21:07.940 --> 00:21:11.279 so um i think what i'm going to say what i'm 00:21:11.279 --> 00:21:12.680 going to do i think this could really help you 00:21:12.680 --> 00:21:14.720 as well because i think we've both been going 00:21:14.720 --> 00:21:16.799 around in circles a little bit trying to accomplish 00:21:16.799 --> 00:21:19.500 things and maybe we could be a bit more effective. 00:21:19.619 --> 00:21:21.180 Are you concentrating, Nathan, or are you busy 00:21:21.180 --> 00:21:26.180 adding in? No, I'm just, I'm just, I've found 00:21:26.180 --> 00:21:28.839 something else that's wrong in my tree. Okay, 00:21:28.880 --> 00:21:30.380 tell me what that is and then we'll go back to 00:21:30.380 --> 00:21:33.299 my plan that I've got for both of us. Right, 00:21:33.339 --> 00:21:36.259 so obviously I've just done, I've literally done 00:21:36.259 --> 00:21:38.259 what we've said, adding this sauce, making it 00:21:38.259 --> 00:21:40.500 link to them. And then I've just looked on his 00:21:40.500 --> 00:21:43.880 timeline and his daughter was born six years 00:21:43.880 --> 00:21:47.140 before. He got married. That's not impossible. 00:21:47.660 --> 00:21:49.980 It might not be impossible. It might not be wrong. 00:21:50.359 --> 00:21:53.240 But then there's the question of who the mother 00:21:53.240 --> 00:21:55.960 is or if it's the same mother or if he was married 00:21:55.960 --> 00:21:58.559 before. Well, that's okay. So you just need to 00:21:58.559 --> 00:22:02.099 go through back to 3BMD or you need to go somewhere 00:22:02.099 --> 00:22:04.480 where you can look for the mother's maiden name, 00:22:04.519 --> 00:22:07.319 don't you, subjectively on the GRO site and just 00:22:07.319 --> 00:22:11.339 keep searching on the dad's surname, the mother's 00:22:11.339 --> 00:22:14.849 maiden name. for the place and the time period 00:22:14.849 --> 00:22:17.230 and then you pull together a list of all the 00:22:17.230 --> 00:22:23.049 kids. Honestly, it's these people. It's these 00:22:23.049 --> 00:22:26.130 Joseph and Georges and the Marys all just getting 00:22:26.130 --> 00:22:28.289 confused and muddled and just causing me chaos. 00:22:28.890 --> 00:22:32.289 So he's saying she was born in Bradford. He was 00:22:32.289 --> 00:22:34.869 born in Durham. He got married in Newcastle. 00:22:36.109 --> 00:22:38.470 Why would she be born in Bradford? Everything 00:22:38.470 --> 00:22:41.549 just feels wrong right now. Let's park that. 00:22:42.389 --> 00:22:45.150 So you're looking at your tree, presumably, on 00:22:45.150 --> 00:22:49.309 your computer, not on your phone. On my computer. 00:22:49.349 --> 00:22:52.569 I'm almost in tears right now. So we can do this 00:22:52.569 --> 00:22:54.869 thing, which we've said quite a few weeks, is 00:22:54.869 --> 00:22:58.470 go and add a tag on them. Like put danger or 00:22:58.470 --> 00:23:00.329 something. Create yourself your own custom tag 00:23:00.329 --> 00:23:04.130 called dangerous entry or something. It might 00:23:04.130 --> 00:23:06.269 be. Let me have a look. Let me pull up my own 00:23:06.269 --> 00:23:08.230 system. Okay, I will do it. I've never done it, 00:23:08.269 --> 00:23:12.099 so let me do it. So helpful. Because then if 00:23:12.099 --> 00:23:14.539 you have something wrong in your tree and you're 00:23:14.539 --> 00:23:16.140 kind of worried that you might even forget what 00:23:16.140 --> 00:23:19.240 it is, because even with a not very big tree, 00:23:19.259 --> 00:23:21.119 we end up with loads of people in there, don't 00:23:21.119 --> 00:23:24.680 we? So then if we can just keep a note of what 00:23:24.680 --> 00:23:27.339 it is that we're worried about, then that's got 00:23:27.339 --> 00:23:30.640 to be a good plan, hasn't it? Yeah? I guess so. 00:23:31.309 --> 00:23:33.250 I'm just, I'm broken. How we're going to add, 00:23:33.349 --> 00:23:35.190 we're just mentioning this in case anyone hasn't 00:23:35.190 --> 00:23:37.329 heard us bang on about tags before. So if you're 00:23:37.329 --> 00:23:39.910 looking at your ancestry tree on your laptop 00:23:39.910 --> 00:23:41.930 or desktop or whatever, then when you're looking 00:23:41.930 --> 00:23:44.829 at somebody's profile, then you can add tags 00:23:44.829 --> 00:23:47.769 and there'll be, it will say add tags somewhere 00:23:47.769 --> 00:23:49.789 below their name in that little, the big gray 00:23:49.789 --> 00:23:51.990 bar at the top. Somewhere below their name it 00:23:51.990 --> 00:23:53.950 will say add tags or have a little edit pen so 00:23:53.950 --> 00:23:57.549 you can edit tags. And then you can choose from 00:23:57.549 --> 00:24:02.660 the tags that they already have. Out of the research 00:24:02.660 --> 00:24:05.559 status tags that Ancestry have already drawn 00:24:05.559 --> 00:24:07.339 up a list for you to choose from. So you could 00:24:07.339 --> 00:24:09.339 choose whether you're actively researching someone, 00:24:09.619 --> 00:24:12.259 whether they're a prioritised person, whether 00:24:12.259 --> 00:24:14.500 they're unverified. So that could be a really 00:24:14.500 --> 00:24:17.359 good one for you. Or you could even create your 00:24:17.359 --> 00:24:21.460 own custom tag, which goes quicksand or danger 00:24:21.460 --> 00:24:23.839 or whatever you want to call it. Something so 00:24:23.839 --> 00:24:26.019 that you know that's what... And you could apply 00:24:26.019 --> 00:24:28.259 that tag to all of those people who you're just... 00:24:28.559 --> 00:24:30.420 worried about that maybe you've attached them 00:24:30.420 --> 00:24:32.799 wrongly and then in the future you can search 00:24:32.799 --> 00:24:36.299 on your tags and you can um bring up all the 00:24:36.299 --> 00:24:40.980 people who you think are cause for concern that 00:24:40.980 --> 00:24:44.559 the research isn't as good as you'd like and 00:24:44.559 --> 00:24:47.420 if you in the future when that tag no longer 00:24:47.420 --> 00:24:50.599 applies and you just remove the tag she is tagged 00:24:50.599 --> 00:24:52.980 she is tagged with the word danger i'm a little 00:24:52.980 --> 00:24:54.980 bit upset i couldn't put any exclamation marks 00:24:54.980 --> 00:24:57.829 on there because i wanted at least three Oh, 00:24:57.910 --> 00:25:00.450 wow. Well, that's my homework for next week. 00:25:00.970 --> 00:25:04.789 Delete my tree and start again. How do I have 00:25:04.789 --> 00:25:07.809 a score of 9 .9 when I'm full of errors? Because 00:25:07.809 --> 00:25:14.109 the rest of us are doing worse. Could be a relative, 00:25:14.230 --> 00:25:18.630 a 9 .9. Anyway, I've done two good things there, 00:25:18.650 --> 00:25:20.549 though. I've attached a source properly for the 00:25:20.549 --> 00:25:23.269 first time ever. And I've also put a tag on, 00:25:23.349 --> 00:25:25.529 a custom tag. So, yeah, I have learned something. 00:25:26.240 --> 00:25:28.599 But also with the things that when you're finding 00:25:28.599 --> 00:25:31.160 records within Ancestry, when you add them to 00:25:31.160 --> 00:25:33.000 that person, then the source will automatically 00:25:33.000 --> 00:25:35.619 get added. It only becomes a dilemma to build 00:25:35.619 --> 00:25:38.539 your own sources when you're adding information 00:25:38.539 --> 00:25:42.880 from outside the Ancestry record collections 00:25:42.880 --> 00:25:45.039 or Ancestry trees and whatever. That's what I 00:25:45.039 --> 00:25:46.380 love with the Ancestry stuff because when you 00:25:46.380 --> 00:25:48.220 do it, like attach the census and you click it, 00:25:48.259 --> 00:25:50.740 it does the lines linking to the life events 00:25:50.740 --> 00:25:53.589 and then who's in the tree. I like seeing those 00:25:53.589 --> 00:25:54.990 lines because then it's like, where have I got 00:25:54.990 --> 00:25:56.789 this information? You click it. Oh, that's where 00:25:56.789 --> 00:26:00.130 I got it. Which is why it's great to then be 00:26:00.130 --> 00:26:01.490 able to do what you've just showed me how to 00:26:01.490 --> 00:26:03.710 do. So I know that that source relates to the 00:26:03.710 --> 00:26:08.569 marriage. Nice. It's very tidy. Despite the chaos 00:26:08.569 --> 00:26:13.049 that surrounds it. It is. It definitely is. So 00:26:13.049 --> 00:26:14.789 this is what I think we need to do. This is what 00:26:14.789 --> 00:26:16.349 I'm going to do. And I think it might help you. 00:26:17.039 --> 00:26:19.619 So when I get stuck in my family history, that's 00:26:19.619 --> 00:26:22.039 when I do actually get better and I kind of dust 00:26:22.039 --> 00:26:24.099 off the things that you should do. When it's 00:26:24.099 --> 00:26:27.440 all going well, I just gallivant along and I 00:26:27.440 --> 00:26:31.960 am not very good at keeping organised, keeping 00:26:31.960 --> 00:26:34.019 my notes, making a clear plan of what I'm doing. 00:26:34.140 --> 00:26:36.799 And I'm quite happy just having a happy old time. 00:26:37.380 --> 00:26:39.920 And then when it gets hard, that's when I go, 00:26:40.000 --> 00:26:43.759 OK, you do know what to do and do it. So this 00:26:43.759 --> 00:26:46.160 is what I need to do. And I think. is partly 00:26:46.160 --> 00:26:48.140 because life is busy at the moment. Work's busy. 00:26:48.220 --> 00:26:50.019 I moaned about having a cold and everything. 00:26:50.240 --> 00:26:52.039 I need to actually just have a research plan. 00:26:52.119 --> 00:26:54.019 It doesn't need to be a big research plan. I 00:26:54.019 --> 00:26:57.000 need to treat every little research bit that 00:26:57.000 --> 00:26:58.980 I'm doing as a research plan. So I'm trying to 00:26:58.980 --> 00:27:02.299 look for this guy, James, who's my three times 00:27:02.299 --> 00:27:05.359 great -grandpa's son. So he's my two times great 00:27:05.359 --> 00:27:08.720 -uncle. I'm trying to look for him. And I'm finding 00:27:08.720 --> 00:27:10.819 him hard to find. I keep getting in a muddle 00:27:10.819 --> 00:27:13.000 with other people. So I need to write down everything 00:27:13.000 --> 00:27:16.140 I know about him. this is how I do a research 00:27:16.140 --> 00:27:17.940 plan I write down what do I know at the outset 00:27:17.940 --> 00:27:19.759 so I just write a summary of everything I know 00:27:19.759 --> 00:27:23.339 and then I have a section which is records to 00:27:23.339 --> 00:27:25.180 search then I'll have a brainstorm with myself 00:27:25.180 --> 00:27:27.880 and I could do a bit of googling as well and 00:27:27.880 --> 00:27:29.960 I'll draw up a list of all the possible records 00:27:29.960 --> 00:27:32.920 that are available for that time period that 00:27:32.920 --> 00:27:37.700 might help me find out more about him and then 00:27:37.700 --> 00:27:41.789 I will Put the date, whatever, today's date, 00:27:41.869 --> 00:27:43.890 and I'll choose one of those records and I'll 00:27:43.890 --> 00:27:45.829 start searching for him. And I'll write down 00:27:45.829 --> 00:27:49.569 what years I searched for him within those records, 00:27:49.750 --> 00:27:52.349 what search terms I used, because his name sounds 00:27:52.349 --> 00:27:54.210 Macpherson, which you think should be pretty 00:27:54.210 --> 00:27:57.849 easy. But even that simple little Mac can just, 00:27:57.930 --> 00:28:00.950 depending on how kind the search systems are. 00:28:01.309 --> 00:28:02.950 They can tell you there's nothing in there. And 00:28:02.950 --> 00:28:05.190 like I searched in the trade directory for Macpherson, 00:28:05.289 --> 00:28:07.269 it told me there weren't any Macphersons in a 00:28:07.269 --> 00:28:08.829 trade directory of sterling. And I was like, 00:28:08.869 --> 00:28:11.509 you've got to be kidding me. And it's because 00:28:11.509 --> 00:28:14.509 they decided to, the originals had it written 00:28:14.509 --> 00:28:17.549 as M apostrophe Ferson and the search system 00:28:17.549 --> 00:28:20.509 didn't pull it up as being the same word. Wow. 00:28:20.950 --> 00:28:23.490 I know. I was just like, can you believe it? 00:28:24.109 --> 00:28:27.049 That's just tiring, that. It is. Anyway, so this 00:28:27.049 --> 00:28:29.069 research plan, say what you, I'm just reiterating 00:28:29.069 --> 00:28:31.049 what I said. Write down what you already know. 00:28:31.890 --> 00:28:33.670 Oh, I forgot the other bit. Write down your goal. 00:28:33.769 --> 00:28:35.990 Write down what you want to find out. That's 00:28:35.990 --> 00:28:38.529 the topic. Oh, what am I like today? First bit 00:28:38.529 --> 00:28:40.069 is write down your research goal or your research 00:28:40.069 --> 00:28:41.630 question. Then you write down what you already 00:28:41.630 --> 00:28:43.690 know. Then you write down a list of all the records 00:28:43.690 --> 00:28:45.230 that are going to help you. If you don't know 00:28:45.230 --> 00:28:46.609 which records are going to help you, then you 00:28:46.609 --> 00:28:47.970 need to have a think about how you're going to 00:28:47.970 --> 00:28:49.910 find records that are going to help you. We'll 00:28:49.910 --> 00:28:52.349 talk about that in a minute. And then you start 00:28:52.349 --> 00:28:54.589 methodically going through that and you write 00:28:54.589 --> 00:28:57.250 down what you find and what you don't find. And 00:28:57.250 --> 00:29:01.690 it makes much more concrete research progress 00:29:01.690 --> 00:29:05.170 and removes the headless chicken vibe. That does 00:29:05.170 --> 00:29:07.809 sound good. I'm struggling to put that... Obviously, 00:29:08.009 --> 00:29:09.670 I'm only thinking quickly off the top of my head, 00:29:09.750 --> 00:29:11.710 but I'm struggling to put that into context with 00:29:11.710 --> 00:29:15.630 me looking for death dates. Just because maybe 00:29:15.630 --> 00:29:17.789 I've got a lack of knowledge about... It's a 00:29:17.789 --> 00:29:21.250 treat, actually, I tell you. Go on, please. So, 00:29:21.250 --> 00:29:23.529 and again, you can apply it broadly, but you, 00:29:23.650 --> 00:29:25.930 so your overarching goal is that you want to 00:29:25.930 --> 00:29:29.269 find the death dates and places for all of your 00:29:29.269 --> 00:29:31.329 two times great grandparents. We're going to 00:29:31.329 --> 00:29:33.069 drill down. We're just going to choose the first 00:29:33.069 --> 00:29:36.569 great grandparent working left to right across 00:29:36.569 --> 00:29:39.490 your tree in a standard old pedigree chart. The 00:29:39.490 --> 00:29:41.430 first one for whom you don't have a death record. 00:29:41.750 --> 00:29:45.609 So the goal is to find this person's death record. 00:29:46.130 --> 00:29:48.160 Yep. Then you're going to do the taking stock 00:29:48.160 --> 00:29:50.359 thing. So what do you know? So you know, for 00:29:50.359 --> 00:29:53.319 instance, that the last time you found them in 00:29:53.319 --> 00:29:57.160 the census was whatever census it was. And you 00:29:57.160 --> 00:29:58.779 know, the last time you found them, you get a 00:29:58.779 --> 00:30:02.200 few details that one of their children got married 00:30:02.200 --> 00:30:03.880 and they were there and they weren't marked as 00:30:03.880 --> 00:30:07.119 deceased. And you know that, for instance, another 00:30:07.119 --> 00:30:09.599 thing could be you found them on their child's 00:30:09.599 --> 00:30:14.430 birth. So you've got a kind of post -quem date, 00:30:14.490 --> 00:30:16.910 you know, that they died after that date. Yeah. 00:30:17.569 --> 00:30:21.450 And then you might have a census where their 00:30:21.450 --> 00:30:23.369 spouse is listed as a widow. So you're like, 00:30:23.430 --> 00:30:25.470 okay, so they died before this date. So immediately 00:30:25.470 --> 00:30:27.990 you helped yourself, haven't you? Yeah. Meanwhile, 00:30:28.069 --> 00:30:29.430 while you're looking at all the records that 00:30:29.430 --> 00:30:32.680 you do have for them, you're... getting a feel 00:30:32.680 --> 00:30:35.180 for are they really are they all living in the 00:30:35.180 --> 00:30:38.480 calvary area or are they more geographically 00:30:38.480 --> 00:30:43.980 widespread so you're getting an idea of how what's 00:30:43.980 --> 00:30:47.940 a realistic kind of geography um over which to 00:30:47.940 --> 00:30:49.880 search for this ancestor are you going to be 00:30:49.880 --> 00:30:52.480 safe just searching in your local area or have 00:30:52.480 --> 00:30:55.660 you got hints from their other data points you've 00:30:55.660 --> 00:30:57.299 got for them that actually they do move around 00:30:57.299 --> 00:30:59.819 a bit so certainly rather than just going i'm 00:30:59.819 --> 00:31:01.980 looking for My answer is the thing. The one I'm 00:31:01.980 --> 00:31:03.579 looking for, James McPherson. I know I'm looking 00:31:03.579 --> 00:31:07.279 for James McPherson. Dying sometime after this 00:31:07.279 --> 00:31:12.099 date, sometime before this date. And he was very 00:31:12.099 --> 00:31:14.640 mobile, so I have to keep my wits about me. And 00:31:14.640 --> 00:31:16.500 he could have died in England, Scotland or America 00:31:16.500 --> 00:31:18.940 or something. Or he might have died in the Calvary 00:31:18.940 --> 00:31:22.059 area, which is what you want. Yeah, so that's 00:31:22.059 --> 00:31:24.500 your taking stock. So once you start thinking 00:31:24.500 --> 00:31:26.319 about it, you do know more than you think. Because 00:31:26.319 --> 00:31:28.740 you're thinking, the initial... When we're in 00:31:28.740 --> 00:31:30.160 headless chicken mode, we go, I'm looking for 00:31:30.160 --> 00:31:32.319 their death. I have no idea where they died. 00:31:32.440 --> 00:31:34.859 I know nothing. They go, no, you do. You don't 00:31:34.859 --> 00:31:36.279 know where they died, but you've got lots of 00:31:36.279 --> 00:31:38.680 pointers to help you focus up your search. That's 00:31:38.680 --> 00:31:41.539 the point of the taking stock. Then onto the 00:31:41.539 --> 00:31:44.019 list of records. So we're going to have a think 00:31:44.019 --> 00:31:48.160 about what records could help us find their death. 00:31:48.440 --> 00:31:51.500 So obviously we know about the... General Register 00:31:51.500 --> 00:31:54.680 Office death records. We know about the parish 00:31:54.680 --> 00:31:58.859 burial records. We know about monumental inscription 00:31:58.859 --> 00:32:02.920 projects, so where gravestones have been typed 00:32:02.920 --> 00:32:07.099 up and put into databases. We know about sites 00:32:07.099 --> 00:32:10.259 like Billion Graves and Find a Grave. We know 00:32:10.259 --> 00:32:13.160 about Deceased Online, which has lots of municipal 00:32:13.160 --> 00:32:18.759 cemetery records. What else do we know? We know 00:32:18.759 --> 00:32:22.690 newspaper. you know, in memoriam notices for 00:32:22.690 --> 00:32:24.950 people saying about their loved ones having passed 00:32:24.950 --> 00:32:28.329 on. Help me out, Nathan. Anyway, what you do 00:32:28.329 --> 00:32:29.529 is you literally do what I'm doing. You're off 00:32:29.529 --> 00:32:30.990 the top of your head and you just write all these 00:32:30.990 --> 00:32:33.529 down. The point is writing them down so that 00:32:33.529 --> 00:32:36.589 then, and it could just be a word document or 00:32:36.589 --> 00:32:38.450 a piece of paper, and then you can literally 00:32:38.450 --> 00:32:40.109 go, right, I'm going to start at the first one. 00:32:40.269 --> 00:32:41.930 Oh, the National Pro -Brit Canada, we mentioned 00:32:41.930 --> 00:32:44.569 that a few minutes ago. Yep. So then you're going 00:32:44.569 --> 00:32:46.250 to literally just go through them one by one 00:32:46.250 --> 00:32:48.650 and it could be... Let's say you were going to 00:32:48.650 --> 00:32:53.049 search a big collection like the free BMD death 00:32:53.049 --> 00:32:55.309 registers. That's the kind of most comprehensive 00:32:55.309 --> 00:32:58.609 record of people's deaths because you're in there. 00:32:58.670 --> 00:33:00.269 It doesn't matter how rich or poor you are. It 00:33:00.269 --> 00:33:01.789 doesn't matter what religion you are. If you 00:33:01.789 --> 00:33:05.869 died after 1837 in England or Wales, then you 00:33:05.869 --> 00:33:08.329 should be recorded in that index. But the problem 00:33:08.329 --> 00:33:11.250 is with it being so broad that even if you've 00:33:11.250 --> 00:33:13.710 narrowed it down to like a 15 -year period and 00:33:13.710 --> 00:33:16.269 a rough place where your ancestor died, you could 00:33:16.269 --> 00:33:18.630 be facing... Lots of entries, and you're not 00:33:18.630 --> 00:33:20.809 going to know which one your one is. But it's 00:33:20.809 --> 00:33:22.789 still worth, it doesn't hurt to start there. 00:33:22.910 --> 00:33:25.289 And then you can look at all the, go through 00:33:25.289 --> 00:33:28.069 the other collections, and by the clues that 00:33:28.069 --> 00:33:30.869 you find in the other collections, when you gradually 00:33:30.869 --> 00:33:33.329 build up a picture of what's possible and what's 00:33:33.329 --> 00:33:35.849 likely from these other collections, when you 00:33:35.849 --> 00:33:39.029 could then revisit that list of, let's say you 00:33:39.029 --> 00:33:41.710 had 20 possible candidates out of three BMD in 00:33:41.710 --> 00:33:44.490 their death indexes. Once you've done all this 00:33:44.490 --> 00:33:45.970 other research, you could go, well, actually. 00:33:46.699 --> 00:33:48.920 out of those 17 of them just aren't possible 00:33:48.920 --> 00:33:51.039 they're not fixing up with any of these other 00:33:51.039 --> 00:33:53.140 details that i'm finding so you can discount 00:33:53.140 --> 00:33:54.579 all of them and you're down to three people you 00:33:54.579 --> 00:33:56.720 go my ancestors one of these three and you say 00:33:56.720 --> 00:34:00.160 you're homing in on it yeah yeah yeah that sounds 00:34:00.160 --> 00:34:02.880 good it's really good it does work and i think 00:34:02.880 --> 00:34:05.640 i've been doing a bit of that like noticing the 00:34:05.640 --> 00:34:07.579 wife on the census as a widow it's like right 00:34:07.579 --> 00:34:10.760 okay so he's definitely died before 1911 And 00:34:10.760 --> 00:34:12.559 they were married at X date and blah, blah, blah. 00:34:12.639 --> 00:34:14.920 So I am doing bits of that. It's just when you 00:34:14.920 --> 00:34:17.559 get down to the nitty gritty. And then I think 00:34:17.559 --> 00:34:21.179 I probably was largely relying on hints, which 00:34:21.179 --> 00:34:23.960 is naughty. But find a grave kept coming up. 00:34:24.300 --> 00:34:28.239 And it looked accurate. But like I said earlier, 00:34:28.340 --> 00:34:31.219 I couldn't find anything that I would concrete, 00:34:31.340 --> 00:34:34.579 apart from locality, want to say this is, you 00:34:34.579 --> 00:34:37.019 know, definitely related. Because it could be. 00:34:37.039 --> 00:34:38.820 There could be multiple George Wads. There are, 00:34:38.920 --> 00:34:41.889 aren't there? It's just that confidence to know, 00:34:41.929 --> 00:34:45.670 yes, this is correct. That's a good start. I'll 00:34:45.670 --> 00:34:48.789 work on that. Can I give one more tip? And I'm 00:34:48.789 --> 00:34:50.550 not quite sure how it works on Ancestry, but 00:34:50.550 --> 00:34:54.789 I know I'm a family tree maker. I'll add in just 00:34:54.789 --> 00:34:57.409 B -E -F dot and then a date. So let's say I found 00:34:57.409 --> 00:35:03.010 their spouse as a widow on the 1911 census. And 00:35:03.010 --> 00:35:05.250 then I didn't know somebody's death date. Then 00:35:05.250 --> 00:35:09.110 I just put Beth for before. um 1911 so i know 00:35:09.110 --> 00:35:11.869 they died well they're more actually 1911 before 00:35:11.869 --> 00:35:14.650 the census date in 1911 isn't it so it could 00:35:14.650 --> 00:35:18.369 be um but i'll know when it's when it's an 11 00:35:18.369 --> 00:35:21.090 date and i know it's like a census thing but 00:35:21.090 --> 00:35:25.349 so that can be helpful because it kind of i guess 00:35:25.349 --> 00:35:28.010 in a way it stops you seeing at a glance what 00:35:28.010 --> 00:35:30.389 you don't know because you'll have some sort 00:35:30.389 --> 00:35:32.469 of date filled in there but it should keep it 00:35:32.469 --> 00:35:34.630 in there because you can include like about can't 00:35:34.630 --> 00:35:37.519 you yeah Yeah, you can for the birth. So, yeah, 00:35:37.579 --> 00:35:39.039 that's good, actually, isn't it? Because it's 00:35:39.039 --> 00:35:40.800 like, right, I've got this little nugget of information, 00:35:40.820 --> 00:35:44.460 which is like... Yeah, it's getting warmer and 00:35:44.460 --> 00:35:48.179 warmer towards the goal. Yes, and obviously we're 00:35:48.179 --> 00:35:49.920 all going to go off on tangents and forget. So 00:35:49.920 --> 00:35:51.980 when you come back, be like, right, OK, so if 00:35:51.980 --> 00:35:56.780 I see that death 1911, I'll instantly make the 00:35:56.780 --> 00:35:59.739 note that it's from a census, so clearly he's 00:35:59.739 --> 00:36:04.699 not on it when she is. That's a cool idea. And 00:36:04.699 --> 00:36:08.559 again, with the thing that we've just talked 00:36:08.559 --> 00:36:11.840 about, reiterating, so let's say you add that 00:36:11.840 --> 00:36:14.320 as a fact to your timeline, that he died before 00:36:14.320 --> 00:36:18.500 1911, and then you can go to the sources column 00:36:18.500 --> 00:36:21.000 in the middle of Ancestry, press plus, create 00:36:21.000 --> 00:36:23.179 your little source and go the source for his 00:36:23.179 --> 00:36:27.179 death date of before 1911 is the 1911 census. 00:36:27.460 --> 00:36:29.559 And so you can make it, it's a tiny bit more 00:36:29.559 --> 00:36:33.480 effort, and it's not an actual... date of his 00:36:33.480 --> 00:36:36.239 death but it's giving you it's a you've got a 00:36:36.239 --> 00:36:38.260 fact and you've got a source which has given 00:36:38.260 --> 00:36:40.500 you this information and you've proved it to 00:36:40.500 --> 00:36:42.400 yourself so when you revisit it in a few weeks 00:36:42.400 --> 00:36:45.199 or months time you go you know exactly why you 00:36:45.199 --> 00:36:46.599 thought what you thought and where you got that 00:36:46.599 --> 00:36:49.539 information from to start building on um more 00:36:49.539 --> 00:36:52.780 firmly yeah that sounds like more like adding 00:36:52.780 --> 00:36:54.880 your research log to your tree as you're going 00:36:54.880 --> 00:36:57.260 yes that sort of concept which is good if that's 00:36:57.260 --> 00:37:02.900 what i'm just doing yeah cool I feel more positive. 00:37:02.960 --> 00:37:05.019 I feel like I've cheered myself up by the little 00:37:05.019 --> 00:37:07.219 pep talk. I was feeling very despondent at the 00:37:07.219 --> 00:37:09.980 start of this. I know. We were full of misery, 00:37:10.019 --> 00:37:13.039 weren't we? Yeah, yeah. The power of family history. 00:37:13.760 --> 00:37:17.980 Yeah, yeah. Although I am terrified. Because? 00:37:18.800 --> 00:37:22.059 I'm just amazed at the mess that I've made. And 00:37:22.059 --> 00:37:25.019 it's all on one branch, which is good, at least. 00:37:25.179 --> 00:37:29.320 But anyway, there's mysteries out there. Mysteries 00:37:29.320 --> 00:37:32.409 for me to find the answers to. I've also spelt 00:37:32.409 --> 00:37:35.570 Catherine wrong as well. Well, she could have 00:37:35.570 --> 00:37:37.690 spelt it wrong too, couldn't she? Yeah, I put 00:37:37.690 --> 00:37:40.269 a little bit of transcript. She probably doesn't 00:37:40.269 --> 00:37:44.110 even exist anyway. Whatever. Let's stay positive. 00:37:45.030 --> 00:37:49.690 I will find her. You will. So we've got, as ever, 00:37:49.789 --> 00:37:51.570 we've got loads and loads to do, haven't we? 00:37:52.389 --> 00:37:55.949 We do. It's interesting, isn't it? And I know, 00:37:55.969 --> 00:37:57.829 again, I talk about this all the time, but the 00:37:57.829 --> 00:38:02.179 difference between, like, doing... research tasks 00:38:02.179 --> 00:38:06.579 and actually doing proper exciting digging deeper 00:38:06.579 --> 00:38:08.519 and getting further back the difference is very 00:38:08.519 --> 00:38:12.320 i don't know what the word is but the mood the 00:38:12.320 --> 00:38:14.420 mood's totally different my urge to go back and 00:38:14.420 --> 00:38:17.239 do all these death dates it bores me a little 00:38:17.239 --> 00:38:22.139 the idea of it it's very what what word am i 00:38:22.139 --> 00:38:25.019 missing here it's because it's not spontaneous 00:38:25.019 --> 00:38:30.559 it's um it's like a task Exactly. Yeah. Admin. 00:38:30.599 --> 00:38:32.920 That's the word I'm missing. Why could I not 00:38:32.920 --> 00:38:35.159 remember that? It feels like an admin task, doesn't 00:38:35.159 --> 00:38:37.039 it? And it's filling in the blanks and it's like, 00:38:37.099 --> 00:38:39.440 I've already got past these guys. Do I really 00:38:39.440 --> 00:38:41.880 need to be revisiting these guys when I could 00:38:41.880 --> 00:38:44.840 be digging deeper and getting further back? But 00:38:44.840 --> 00:38:48.000 obviously it does make for a stronger tree if 00:38:48.000 --> 00:38:51.539 I've got things right. And also, clearly, if 00:38:51.539 --> 00:38:53.219 you go back and do these things, you might find 00:38:53.219 --> 00:38:55.179 lots of mistakes that you need to rectify, which 00:38:55.179 --> 00:38:57.460 then will hopefully help you not make mistakes 00:38:57.460 --> 00:39:01.219 as you're going further back. I think whether 00:39:01.219 --> 00:39:04.039 it's you doing your kind of, you know, you did 00:39:04.039 --> 00:39:06.159 it to make sure you got all of the bookend dates 00:39:06.159 --> 00:39:08.940 for people's lives or me building forward, they 00:39:08.940 --> 00:39:11.780 both sound like a really methodical admin task. 00:39:12.239 --> 00:39:16.099 But to actually accomplish that, then we need 00:39:16.099 --> 00:39:18.340 to look at a billion and one records. So even 00:39:18.340 --> 00:39:22.699 just to establish those people's deaths, we rattled 00:39:22.699 --> 00:39:25.059 off at least six or seven different sources that 00:39:25.059 --> 00:39:29.000 are going to help you. And working through those 00:39:29.000 --> 00:39:32.340 collections in quite an orderly way because you're 00:39:32.340 --> 00:39:34.699 just focusing on deaths is kind of nice. You're 00:39:34.699 --> 00:39:38.420 going to be really familiar with what's possible 00:39:38.420 --> 00:39:41.360 and what is possible and impossible and available 00:39:41.360 --> 00:39:45.440 for your ancestors and just the records generally. 00:39:47.760 --> 00:39:49.019 You know, when we talked about the marriage, 00:39:49.119 --> 00:39:51.360 with the marriage, you could go, well, actually, 00:39:51.440 --> 00:39:53.840 the parish marriage register at that point gives 00:39:53.840 --> 00:39:55.340 you most of the details. I'm not going to buy 00:39:55.340 --> 00:39:57.920 the marriage certificate. Whereas for that period, 00:39:58.000 --> 00:39:59.940 the burial register isn't going to give you the 00:39:59.940 --> 00:40:02.860 details that the death register is. So if you 00:40:02.860 --> 00:40:05.219 want that cause of death and things like that, 00:40:05.320 --> 00:40:08.300 chances are you're going to have to order the 00:40:08.300 --> 00:40:12.360 death certificate. So it's got different things. 00:40:12.909 --> 00:40:15.050 You know, you're going to be thinking, what's 00:40:15.050 --> 00:40:17.510 important to me? Do I want to know that? And 00:40:17.510 --> 00:40:19.269 sometimes when somebody dies old, you might not 00:40:19.269 --> 00:40:21.489 be being rude or callous, but you might not be 00:40:21.489 --> 00:40:23.050 that fussed why they died. But if they died when 00:40:23.050 --> 00:40:24.690 they're 42, you're going to want to know why. 00:40:25.570 --> 00:40:29.170 Yeah, yeah. And that's happened. Like, I have 00:40:29.170 --> 00:40:31.230 looked at, like, the files that I've ordered, 00:40:31.269 --> 00:40:33.309 and I seem to tend to order death dates more 00:40:33.309 --> 00:40:36.789 than I do births. It's always because of that, 00:40:36.829 --> 00:40:39.789 well, they died young, whether in childbirth 00:40:39.789 --> 00:40:43.670 or... If the child died young, etc. So it is 00:40:43.670 --> 00:40:45.570 intriguing to find out. And like you keep saying 00:40:45.570 --> 00:40:48.349 as well, it changes the fabric of that family, 00:40:48.429 --> 00:40:51.050 doesn't it? So it gives you more context to their 00:40:51.050 --> 00:40:56.280 life if somebody's died in an awful way. So what 00:40:56.280 --> 00:40:58.539 I'm trying to encourage you and me, both of us, 00:40:58.579 --> 00:41:01.079 is that even if something's an admin task and 00:41:01.079 --> 00:41:02.760 even if it's quite a big task and it's going 00:41:02.760 --> 00:41:04.840 to go on for many weeks and months, the only 00:41:04.840 --> 00:41:06.840 way we're going to get these sort of admin tasks 00:41:06.840 --> 00:41:09.500 done is by actually doing research anyway. The 00:41:09.500 --> 00:41:11.559 answers are all in those lovely historical records 00:41:11.559 --> 00:41:13.360 that we like to look at. And when we go into 00:41:13.360 --> 00:41:16.079 those historical records, we cannot fail to find 00:41:16.079 --> 00:41:18.840 insights and stories about our ancestors. So 00:41:18.840 --> 00:41:22.039 it's going to be fine, Nathan. Yeah, we're still 00:41:22.039 --> 00:41:25.579 learning. We're holding our skills. Very, very 00:41:25.579 --> 00:41:31.480 boring. It's not. It's not. No, it's just funny. 00:41:31.559 --> 00:41:33.239 We're both trying to be methodical and, like, 00:41:33.239 --> 00:41:35.340 obviously you like your stories and I like a 00:41:35.340 --> 00:41:37.980 good rabbit hole, so we're doing the exact opposite 00:41:37.980 --> 00:41:42.360 of our actual characters. We are. We are. Yeah. 00:41:43.159 --> 00:41:48.780 Yeah. Yes. I don't mean it's boring. Somebody, 00:41:49.039 --> 00:41:52.739 podcast listener, thank you for... Emailing in, 00:41:52.739 --> 00:41:56.719 it was Virginia, and she said that she was enjoying, 00:41:57.099 --> 00:42:00.039 she's enjoying listening to our doggedness. I 00:42:00.039 --> 00:42:05.059 was like, that's about it. It's not like erudite 00:42:05.059 --> 00:42:08.420 with masses of discoveries, but I think we probably 00:42:08.420 --> 00:42:10.820 both get 10 out of 10 for keeping on trying. 00:42:11.719 --> 00:42:15.300 It's these two again. Same thing, week after 00:42:15.300 --> 00:42:19.179 week. Yes, we are dogged. We are dogged, yes. 00:42:19.360 --> 00:42:22.920 And I think that's a quality. Might be better 00:42:22.920 --> 00:42:26.420 qualities, but it is a quality. Yeah, stubborn. 00:42:27.360 --> 00:42:29.599 Yes, definitely stubborn. I think you have to 00:42:29.599 --> 00:42:32.519 be stubborn as a family historian. It is that 00:42:32.519 --> 00:42:37.460 power to push through, isn't it? Again, I prattle 00:42:37.460 --> 00:42:40.239 on about running a lot, but it's that same mindset. 00:42:40.280 --> 00:42:42.619 I think the two go hand in hand in the style 00:42:42.619 --> 00:42:45.000 of person that you are. You're going to go run 00:42:45.000 --> 00:42:47.239 10 miles today. It's like, why would I want to 00:42:47.239 --> 00:42:49.119 do that? And it's that mindset of pushing through, 00:42:49.199 --> 00:42:52.460 isn't it? getting lost in it. And it is the same 00:42:52.460 --> 00:42:54.059 with Family Tree. It's like, oh, this is hard, 00:42:54.099 --> 00:42:56.340 but actually it's rewarding, so I'll get through 00:42:56.340 --> 00:43:00.380 it. I'll challenge my brain a bit. It's interesting 00:43:00.380 --> 00:43:04.659 as well how many different kind of attitudes 00:43:04.659 --> 00:43:07.260 there are for family history. So we talk, as 00:43:07.260 --> 00:43:09.480 anyone who's ever listened to more than one episode 00:43:09.480 --> 00:43:11.699 will know, trying to keep organised and clear 00:43:11.699 --> 00:43:13.920 -headed is probably our main theme, isn't it? 00:43:15.019 --> 00:43:17.980 Oh, yeah, allegedly, yes. Trying to get unconfused 00:43:17.980 --> 00:43:21.449 again and unstuck again. And I think that's probably 00:43:21.449 --> 00:43:23.789 because it is easy to get confused and easy to 00:43:23.789 --> 00:43:27.030 get stuck. And I thought it was really fun, Nathan. 00:43:27.110 --> 00:43:29.329 So a little while back, you put a picture of 00:43:29.329 --> 00:43:32.750 your scruffy old research notes. And I think 00:43:32.750 --> 00:43:35.190 we should feel encouraged. We're not alone. I 00:43:35.190 --> 00:43:36.849 think, what, do you want to talk about that a 00:43:36.849 --> 00:43:40.789 bit? Well, yeah, it literally was a few weeks 00:43:40.789 --> 00:43:43.329 ago. I can't remember who I was researching, 00:43:43.429 --> 00:43:46.869 but I was, it was one of those days where the 00:43:46.869 --> 00:43:50.039 information's coming. fast and furious and I 00:43:50.039 --> 00:43:53.820 was looking for a birth name of the birthday 00:43:53.820 --> 00:43:56.519 I was looking for a maiden name of um one of 00:43:56.519 --> 00:44:00.619 the ladies what's wrong with me and um I was 00:44:00.619 --> 00:44:02.579 comparing children so I was drawing up a chart 00:44:02.579 --> 00:44:04.280 I was doing research on about three different 00:44:04.280 --> 00:44:07.440 websites and I was noting volume numbers and 00:44:07.440 --> 00:44:10.420 dates and people's surnames I'd made a chart 00:44:10.420 --> 00:44:12.739 I'd made little boxes I was scrolling numbers 00:44:12.739 --> 00:44:16.380 all over the place and at a glance you can look 00:44:16.380 --> 00:44:19.090 at it And it's just nonsense. I've got facts 00:44:19.090 --> 00:44:20.849 on one side of the page that relate to facts 00:44:20.849 --> 00:44:22.489 on the other side of the page. They're not next 00:44:22.489 --> 00:44:24.050 to each other. Why would they be? So there's 00:44:24.050 --> 00:44:26.030 arrows, there's squeals. It was a mess. Anyway, 00:44:26.250 --> 00:44:28.929 it was just like my brain splurged out on the 00:44:28.929 --> 00:44:31.929 page. So I put it on social media and we had 00:44:31.929 --> 00:44:34.389 absolutely loads of people responding to it saying, 00:44:34.469 --> 00:44:37.250 yeah, this is me. This is how I do it. Some people 00:44:37.250 --> 00:44:39.010 were suggesting that my stuff was neater than 00:44:39.010 --> 00:44:42.769 their stuff, which is terrifying. Yeah, it clearly 00:44:42.769 --> 00:44:44.909 resonated with everybody. So it's nice to see 00:44:44.909 --> 00:44:47.170 we're not alone. No, we're definitely not alone. 00:44:47.409 --> 00:44:50.030 So if anybody is out there and if anybody is 00:44:50.030 --> 00:44:52.289 not writing things down and if anybody is writing 00:44:52.289 --> 00:44:53.789 things down but they can't read what they've 00:44:53.789 --> 00:44:56.210 written down or if anybody's written things down 00:44:56.210 --> 00:44:58.489 as Nathan has on upside down and round about 00:44:58.489 --> 00:45:00.909 the corner and everything else, then just don't 00:45:00.909 --> 00:45:02.949 worry about it. We're all trying. We're going 00:45:02.949 --> 00:45:07.130 to carry on trying to be a bit more methodical, 00:45:07.170 --> 00:45:10.269 mainly just to help ourselves. But if it's all 00:45:10.269 --> 00:45:13.150 going swimmingly for you and you don't need to 00:45:13.150 --> 00:45:15.949 be more organised, that's fine. Well done. The 00:45:15.949 --> 00:45:17.650 question I've got is why would I start writing 00:45:17.650 --> 00:45:19.889 my notes in the front of the book and on the 00:45:19.889 --> 00:45:22.510 same day then just decide I'm going to go to 00:45:22.510 --> 00:45:27.710 the back and use the back instead? Bonkers. I 00:45:27.710 --> 00:45:33.590 can't answer that. Nor can I and that's the terrifying 00:45:33.590 --> 00:45:36.429 thing. Are you left -handed? I am left -handed. 00:45:36.750 --> 00:45:41.050 I think that could be it then. I don't know how 00:45:41.050 --> 00:45:43.840 to take that. Well, I'm left -handed too and 00:45:43.840 --> 00:45:45.400 I think we have a different relationship with 00:45:45.400 --> 00:45:50.440 spines. That's true, that's true. Because we 00:45:50.440 --> 00:45:54.300 have to cope in a right -handed world. We do. 00:45:54.360 --> 00:45:56.239 People don't know the tyranny we live under. 00:45:56.679 --> 00:45:59.760 Exactly, exactly. So I think it's probably just 00:45:59.760 --> 00:46:04.800 a little left -handed aberration. Right, shall 00:46:04.800 --> 00:46:07.159 we go away and we'll reconvene next week and 00:46:07.159 --> 00:46:09.519 we'll see whether we've managed to be more... 00:46:11.440 --> 00:46:15.119 Well, make more progress. Yes. I'm getting back 00:46:15.119 --> 00:46:18.260 with the research plan. Yeah. I've underlined 00:46:18.260 --> 00:46:22.219 it. Like, Helen, get your act together. Yeah, 00:46:22.260 --> 00:46:26.199 I'm not doing that. I'm just giving you all that 00:46:26.199 --> 00:46:27.960 good advice. You're not going to do it. No, I 00:46:27.960 --> 00:46:31.340 am. I will do it. I will do it. But I want to 00:46:31.340 --> 00:46:34.639 do the death date thing, but I'm now more concerned 00:46:34.639 --> 00:46:36.400 about starting this Catherine Black burnout. 00:46:37.039 --> 00:46:40.599 I need to find out who her mother is and all 00:46:40.599 --> 00:46:42.980 that. I just need to unweave that. That'll calm 00:46:42.980 --> 00:46:45.159 me. And then I can get back to actually my admin 00:46:45.159 --> 00:46:48.159 task and very excitedly find death dates repeatedly. 00:46:49.360 --> 00:46:53.360 Good, good. Okay. Well, thank you for listening, 00:46:53.400 --> 00:46:56.119 everybody. And on the topic of being organised, 00:46:56.340 --> 00:46:58.869 there's somebody who is... absolutely a gold 00:46:58.869 --> 00:47:00.989 star person at being organized and that's dr 00:47:00.989 --> 00:47:03.750 sophie k and we have got a course coming up with 00:47:03.750 --> 00:47:07.030 her very very soon and in there she teaches search 00:47:07.030 --> 00:47:10.610 skills and research skills to help you get more 00:47:10.610 --> 00:47:13.539 organized she's devised several different types 00:47:13.539 --> 00:47:15.559 of research logs so there's a research log for 00:47:15.559 --> 00:47:18.179 everybody every single kind of brain we just 00:47:18.179 --> 00:47:20.280 have to use them it's a bit like when you buy 00:47:20.280 --> 00:47:21.920 furniture polish you do actually just have to 00:47:21.920 --> 00:47:25.739 use it not just buy it okay so she's um that's 00:47:25.739 --> 00:47:30.280 another look to myself and then um and then anyway 00:47:30.280 --> 00:47:32.519 she's devised this wonderful set of research 00:47:32.519 --> 00:47:37.530 logs she's thought clearly about how different 00:47:37.530 --> 00:47:40.210 search systems works and she teaches us how these 00:47:40.210 --> 00:47:44.090 search systems work so we know why we do or don't 00:47:44.090 --> 00:47:46.150 get results when we put our ancestors' names 00:47:46.150 --> 00:47:50.360 into search. into search databases. She's thought 00:47:50.360 --> 00:47:52.980 of wonderful ideas to help us think of patterns. 00:47:53.219 --> 00:47:55.260 So when we're looking for clues, you know when 00:47:55.260 --> 00:47:57.760 you were saying about Nathan, it's hard to spot 00:47:57.760 --> 00:48:01.159 a death or whatever, then she has thought about 00:48:01.159 --> 00:48:03.579 ways that we can look for patterns in the details 00:48:03.579 --> 00:48:06.380 that we do have and they can help us shine lights 00:48:06.380 --> 00:48:09.139 on those dark corners where you can't find information 00:48:09.139 --> 00:48:11.099 readily about our ancestors. So there's lots 00:48:11.099 --> 00:48:13.400 and lots of really practical skills and strategies 00:48:13.400 --> 00:48:17.349 that we can use and which I do use. very grateful 00:48:17.349 --> 00:48:19.230 to Sophie for and if you want to come along and 00:48:19.230 --> 00:48:21.449 learn too then our course starts at the beginning 00:48:21.449 --> 00:48:25.329 of April it's called the Research Skills Studio 00:48:25.329 --> 00:48:26.989 and you can find out about it on our website 00:48:26.989 --> 00:48:31.670 which is www .family -tree .co .uk and one last 00:48:31.670 --> 00:48:33.710 thing if anybody would like to drop us an email 00:48:33.710 --> 00:48:38.030 then you can email me and Nathan at my email 00:48:38.030 --> 00:48:40.070 address and I pass it on straight away to Nathan 00:48:40.070 --> 00:48:41.550 as soon as we get an email from anyone listening 00:48:41.550 --> 00:48:43.610 to the podcast we get very excited and my email 00:48:43.610 --> 00:48:49.010 address is Helen at family -tree .co .uk. Lovely. 00:48:49.190 --> 00:48:51.590 Happy researching, guys. Bye then.