Motherhood is a journey that changes everything.
Your heart, your mind, your entire world. It's
joy and struggle, beauty and chaos all tangled
together. We're two moms walking this road with
you, sharing honest conversations so no one feels
alone in it. This is No Manual Momcast, a space
for real talk. connection, and encouragement
for every mom. Welcome back. This week, we have
our first return guest on. Yes. And actually,
I think you were also our first guest because
I knew you wouldn't say no. Yeah. Our first few
guests, we definitely were just like, who will
for sure say yes to us? Yeah. And of course,
who will say no but my own mom? Right. So yeah,
today we have my mom, Beth, Mama Beth, on again.
to talk about a little bit of a harder subject
than last time. Last time we just kind of had
some fun. But you experienced an ectopic pregnancy,
obviously, many years ago now. So you'll kind
of just be sharing that story. But before we
get started, do we want to share mom moments?
Yes. Yeah, I can go first. So Colt's favorite
snack right now is any type of bar. So like a
Z -Bar, a Fig Bar, one of those like – peanut
butter and jelly bars, any granola bar, something
of the sort. And so we usually have like a morning
snack and an afternoon snack is kind of the rhythm.
And he always picks like for his first snack,
it's always a bar. So I tell him every single
time. hey, if you have your bar now, like we
only have one bar a day. We cannot have a second
bar. And so yesterday he chose like those fig
bars. It comes with like two little bars in it.
It's like blueberry. So I let him have both of
those and he wanted them in two separate snack
containers so he could have two, it seemed like
two. And then immediately after he ate his bar,
he said, Mama, I have one more snack. One more
snack, please. And I said, okay, well, what would
you like? And he said, one more bar. I said,
no, buddy, we only have one bar a day. It's too
many bars. And he goes, Mama, but I love you.
I love you, Mama. And I said, oh, buddy, I love
you so much, but we can only have one bar. per
day i don't love you anymore yeah no he legit
i feel so bad but then he had like a full -on
tantrum and but it was so cute mama but i love
you mama i'm like you are trying to manipulate
me right now aren't you trying and it's kind
of working but i'm not falling for it this time
so it was so cute i'm like where are you learning
this manipulation it's the best also very cute
it's so cute anytime he's like i love you mama
i'm like anything i'm doing like nothing else
matters i love you yeah that's so cute yeah okay
what about you so lloyd has been getting a lot
more time out recently um he's trying to throw
literally everything and so i try to take toys
away if he throws them and i also usually try
to give him warnings so it's like especially
if you see the wind up then i'll be like hey
if you throw that That gets taken away. But then
there's some things you can't take away or he
doesn't care. It's like, so Lightning McQueen,
if Lightning gets taken away, it's a big deal.
But there are other cars, like if a monster truck
is taken away, he doesn't really care. And then
there's stuff like, I can't take away Zeta's
water bottle because that's Zeta's water bottle.
So he knows. Yeah, so there usually comes a point
where it's like, after a few things have been
taken away, he goes on timeout. And then if it's
like... We kind of like ramp up. So it's like
two minutes. And then if it happens again, it's
a few more minutes. But the thing that keeps
happening is I'll put him in timeout, like set
him up on a chair. We have a timer that is like
visual. So I'm like, okay, when the blue is all
gone, they're like, you have to sit here till
the blue is all gone. You're in timeout. But
Zeta likes to go join him. Because she obviously
does not understand. But then that takes away
from his like being disciplined and being punished
for doing something he knows he's not supposed
to do. And they're just giggling together. So
then I have to like go get Zeta and remove her
from the situation because she's just like, oh,
I'll go hang out with my big brother while he's
just sitting here. And is she usually upset when
you're like. You take her away, or is she fine?
So far, we've been fine. She's kind of, like,
a little confused why she's not allowed to play
with Lloyd. And then he's usually more upset.
But it's just one of those really funny, like,
sibling things where it's almost like she's trying
to get him out of jail. Like, oh, I'm coming
for you, Lloyd. But almost every single time
he's in timeout, she just, like, crawls on over
and, like, climbs up on him. Like, oh, we're
hanging out over here now. Yeah. All right. Yep.
Every time. That's so cute. All right. What about
you, Mom? What do you got? So as a mother of
adults, this is my mom moment, right? Saying
yes. It's rearranging my schedule so that I'll
be here when it's convenient for you instead
of convenient for me because it doesn't matter,
right? Because that's how you support your...
Adult children. Well, thanks for rearranging
your schedule and being here. It was only yoga.
It was my favorite yoga class. Hey, that's important.
That's important. Is Laura still the teacher?
On Saturdays, yeah. Yeah, it's a really good
workout. Sorry, red hair all over. Cat hair all
over. Grandparent cat hair all over, yes. A grandparent
moment would be, actually it's a Bapa moment,
but this is too funny not to mention. So we watch
him every Monday. Two Mondays ago, it was like
5 .15, you were about to come, you know, 45 minutes
until mom and dad come to pick you up and take
you home for dinner. And Lloyd goes over to the
refrigerator and says, cheese. I want a cube
of cheese. So I said, we can have one cube because
we don't want to spoil your dinner. Two cubes.
I'm like, Lloyd, I said one cube. So Papa, Grandpa
from the background says, Lloyd, that's not how
you negotiate. You asked for three pieces of
cheese so that you can settle for two. That's
so funny. And Lloyd stood there for a second
and said, three pieces of cheese. You? And then
when I go to get the cheese, because I cut up
the cheese myself so they're not uniform cubes.
It's like, Lloyd, pick out the pieces. He's like,
I need to see which one's the biggest piece here.
Yep. So then this following Monday, he goes to
the refrigerator and he says, Gamma, three pieces
of cheese. He is learning to negotiate. I just
turned to your dad and said, this is your fault.
So now I know where this came from. I think I
shared this story on here. I don't remember if
I just told you. It was a couple weeks ago where
he wanted to take Lightning McQueen to his other
grandparents' house. I was like, no, we're not
going to take it. We don't want you to forget
it. We don't want them to have to remember, whatever.
He's like, no, we're going to leave Lightning
at home. And he sits there for a second and goes.
take Lightning in the cart, leave Lightning in
the cart, not G -Ma and Op -Op's house. I was
like, oh, you're learning to negotiate. All right,
that's fine. That was fair. The progression of
things, he's getting it. That's so good. Now
we know Boppa's the one to blame. Boppa's to
blame 100 % for the negotiation skills. So cute.
Okay, well, I guess we can kind of just hop in.
So you have two kids. Caitlin is my older sister
and then me. So tell us about, like, what those
pregnancies were like and like kind of your experience,
like getting into motherhood and having us. So
Caitlin honestly was a failure of birth control.
She was a complete and utter surprise. We did
not expecting it at all, which actually is kind
of important even to the story of having the
ectopic pregnancy, because the state of life
for me at the time, there were people that were
suggesting that I should have an abortion with
Caitlin. And dad and I were like, yeah, that's
not going to happen. As a matter of fact, I remember
my father's reaction to the fact that I was pregnant
with her was strong enough that the day that
we told them, my mom went crying into the bedroom.
To be fair, she was crying because she thought
she was too young to be a grandmother. Is that
correct? She went running into the bedroom crying
because she said she was too young. How old was
she when she found out she was going to be a
grandmother? 66. Older than I was when I became
a grandparent, right? That's so funny. And 20
years older than dad's parents. Right? Oh, my
gosh. Absolutely. Anyway, I just remember the
one day going to bed, holding my stomach and
saying, don't worry, baby. I will take care of
you. It doesn't matter what anybody else thinks.
You know, so then we had her. And, of course,
once the baby's there. Everybody who's angry
with you or thinks that you shouldn't have done
what you did, the grandparents are all over it.
It was fine. Dad's parents were pretty supportive.
Spaghetti and meatball were pretty supportive.
They were also just excited, even 20 years younger
than my mom, but excited about becoming grandparents
for the first time. And that was back in Illinois.
So we moved to Colorado and then got pregnant
with you. So you're five years apart, just a
little over five years apart. You were more expected.
The pregnancies, for the most part, Caitlin.
So I have a retroverted uterus, which means my
uterus points toward my back instead of my front.
That's why it's always so easy for me to have
a flat stomach. That caused some problems in
the pregnancy just in pain. It was certainly
twice as... I had an old country doctor. We were
in DeKalb, Illinois. And I had an old country
doctor that thought that I should lay on my back
with my feet in the stirrups to deliver. And
every time I would get in that position, the
baby, so Caitlin laying on my spine, made me
lose complete control of my body, and it would
shake violently. Oh, my gosh. So the nurses were
pretty good about that. Like, why don't you turn
on your side, honey? I'm like, thank you. But
the doctor was, like, adamant, and I ended up
delivering without the stirrups, but on my back.
So then, flash forward to Erica, five years.
Pretty easy. Uh, the pregnancy was not too hard
except super sick and morning sickness of the
first month or two month for sure. And then delivering
you completely went to a Vista. I don't know
if that means nothing if you're not in Colorado,
but for context, the context, Laura and I delivered
at a Vista. For both? Which is, yeah, it's the
hospital with the best reputation for its delivery
unit in the Denver area. Yeah. Really, pretty
much. Yep. So I was able to deliver on my side,
which was delightful. And yeah, so both of those
pregnancies, pretty straightforward for the most
part. Some emotional things to get over, certainly
with Caitlin, with the older one, but nothing
too... Nothing that we all couldn't get past.
How's that? Pretty standard. Again, morning sickness
is... Morning sickness, yeah. Morning sickness
with Caitlin, you could set a watch by it. Three
o 'clock in the afternoon, the rest of the day
I'd be sick. That's crazy. Absolutely crazy.
Yeah. That it was so... That I could tell that
way. And then, so for this third pregnancy, was
that expected? Was that planned? Complete surprise.
It would have been a surprise. I mean, at no
point in time were your dad and I, like, trying.
Sure. You know? We weren't not trying, but we
weren't trying. So, you know, I think if it had
taken any longer to get pregnant with you, we
may have taken some steps to try and see if we
could make it happen, which is part of the reason
for the five years. And actually, that's part
of the reason for the ectopic pregnancy, too,
is that feeds into why it took so long. why you
guys are five years apart or a longer period
of time apart. Then how did you find out you
were pregnant this third time? So the third time,
because I experienced the most pain I've ever
experienced in my entire life. And to put some
context around that, broke off teeth when I was
a kid. It hurt, but I was able to run home. Broke
my arm in two places, dislocated my elbow, all
in one fell swoop. Was able to drive everybody
home. Wow. Didn't go to the hospital for like
eight hours that time. It might have been only
six hours. I waited until dad came up for that
one. Dislocated my kneecap. That was probably
the closest in pain, but was still, you know,
took, still walked there. I did it. We were visiting
grandparents with Caitlin. Dad flew. off on a
business trip on a Sunday. I was flying out Monday
morning to come back to Colorado and on making
the bed, I leaned against the bed and I dislocated
my kneecap. Oh, didn't, so stupid. I didn't even
think about what I did. I just backed it back
in place, not thinking that it was dislocated
because I have to go catch a plane with a four
-year -old. So walked through O 'Hare Airport
and then walked through DIA. And I remember once
we got to DIA, and then we were going to the
shuttle so that we could walk in the parking
lot. I remember at one point in time, I finally
gave my four -year -old her suitcase and said,
honey, you have to carry this. I'm not sure.
Oh, my gosh. I couldn't take it any further.
But that's a different thing. So this one, it
was just a normal morning. I want to say it was
a Tuesday, and I don't know why. And I had gotten
up. I was expecting to have my period around
this time. So to have some discomfort was normal.
And I felt like I had to go to the bathroom.
So I went to the washroom and I had the most
excruciating pain, like pass out pain. I think
the only reason why I didn't actually fall to
the floor was because I knew I had two little
kids. And in bizarre. quirk of how I function.
Uh, I also knew that 45 minutes I had was supposed
to take the dog to the vet and I didn't want
to disappoint the vet, made it to the couch before
I really passed out. But that's when I just asked
Caitlin as a five -year -old to go, go get the
phone so I can cancel the appointment with the
vet. Cause there was no way that I was going
to stand up. Right. And I don't know how long
I had to lay there. I canceled the appointment.
And, uh, at some point in time I was able to
get up and I think I called the, that's when
I. I called the doctor. We had a family doctor
at the time, Dr. Lewis. She said, well, that
sounds like you should probably contact your
gynecologist. So Dr. Miles was the man that had
delivered you. And how old was I at this point?
So this is 1999. And I know it's April of 99
because after the surgery, the only time I took,
I think it was oxytocin. No, it would have been
Oxycontin, right? That's the pain reliever. I
had taken it, and it was the shooting at Columbine
High School, and the news was on. And to be in
such a bizarre frame of mind and seeing that,
I'm like, I am never taking this. I would rather
feel pain. Yeah, I've had some heavy pain meds
for things too, and I'm like, I can deal with
pain. I can deal with the pain for that. So I
ended up going to the gynecologist. And I don't
know. I mean, the whole thing. And did you drive
yourself there? Yeah, I was going to ask that.
Did dad get home? Did the neighbor drive you?
I know the neighbor has driven you at least once
in situations like that. I forgot about the time
I cut off my finger. While you were pregnant.
While I was pregnant with you. Oh, gosh. Yeah,
it makes it sound like I'm accident prone. That's
like over the course of a lifetime, everybody.
When you live in the same neighborhood for now
30 years, you know. Yeah, true. Your neighbor's
going to help you out with a few things. And
you help them out. So I want to say that actually
it was a day or two later I started to spot.
But it was spotting. It wasn't like I got my
period. And the pain was better. There was just
that moment that was like pass out pain. So I
finally got to the gynecologist and they just
immediately did a pregnancy test. And they told
me I was pregnant. I'm like, oh, okay. But the
numbers are kind of funky, so I want to come
back in a week. And that was sort of it because
between the pain that I had had, because the
pain had subsided by then, we just want to keep
an eye on this. There's one number that was,
the numbers weren't increasing the way they were
supposed to for a pregnancy. So that's when they
said, so we're concerned that you have an ectopic
pregnancy and that we're going to need to do
something about this. And had you ever, was that
something you had any idea what it was? Nope.
No idea what it was whatsoever at that point
in time. Had never heard of anyone that had had
one. Yeah. Yeah. Not at all. So they briefly
explained it as, well, it could be that the fetus
hasn't attached to the uterine wall. But that's
it. The definition of an ectopic pregnancy is
actually what that is. So then they set me up
for one of multiple ultrasounds that I went through
during, because the whole thing was three or
four weeks. So they did an ultrasound and they
couldn't find anything out of place. But they
also couldn't find anything in place. So they
said, okay, let's let it develop a little bit
longer. And were you still in, like, were you
crampy or were you? It would come and go. So
there were times where it would definitely send
me to bed. But then there were times that I could
function fully and it was okay. So that went
kind of on and off. So given the reaction to
me becoming pregnant with Caitlin and how. adamant
we were that no there was the abortion is just
not on the table I think that really flavored
how we viewed an ectopic pregnancy even though
an ectopic pregnancy isn't a viable pregnancy
in no world would it be able would that child
be able to develop and come into the world normally
but then also from a spiritual standpoint right
it's still I believe that life starts when the
when the egg is is fertilized right so there's
still a form of life there yeah right so dad
and i wrestled with that there were lots of talk
about um and so when you like going back a little
bit you go to the doctor they're like oh by the
way you're pregnant were you able to like were
you like starting to get excited it's like usually
when you have a you know oh for sure there wasn't
like a any sort of like You're pregnant, but
it was just like, oh, another baby on the way.
Pretty much. So, yeah, you were starting to get
excited. Yeah. I think there was probably a full
week we were thinking that way. Okay. Wow. So
we were thinking that. You, as a three -year
-old, were very excited about the prospect of
having. I don't remember making phone calls to
grandparents yet because they did say that the
numbers were funky or something. But we may have
talked to my – my parents and of course your
mom was a nurse for 100 years so yes um that's
a little bit different too that's true yeah she's
and she would have been probably some of the
information that i would gotten for what an ectopic
pregnancy is and what you do about it of course
um so so when they couldn't find anything then
they scheduled me for of course this is back
so this is 99 now you get a you go in for an
ultrasound and somebody carries a laptop in and
right then You scheduled something at the hospital
and you went into radiology and they had a special
room with a special ultrasound and blah, blah,
blah. Yeah. So it was always a bigger deal for
that. I think I went through. They started doing
internal ultrasounds to try and find something.
So I went. I remember like three of those and
not having any luck. So you can take a drug that
basically the abortion drug. And it would terminate
the pregnancy so it won't continue to grow. But
then your body still has to pass it. And most
of the time, they said, so it's probably in your
fallopian tube. We can't find it, but that's
usually where it is. So we opted not to take
that drug. And I don't remember exactly. I think
it was kind of the spiritual aspect and what
dad had some what -ifs in his mind about it because
he was just as strong about that, well, if it's
a baby, it's a baby. And you're not saying, oh,
it's for sure 100 % in your fallopian tube. We
think maybe. We think it is. We can't find it.
We don't know where it is basically at this point
in time, which is a little unusual. So there
was, I remember it was a Saturday that one of
those really strong pains came on. And it was
a Saturday. Dad was home. And we ended up calling
because the doctors said, so at this point in
time, they're like, so you definitely have something
going on. An ectopic pregnancy is a very, very
dangerous, is a life -threatening thing. So you
need to keep an eye on it. And so this one Saturday
with the strong pain, we ended up, we called
Dr. Miles. We ended up meeting Dr. Miles. He
called in an ultrasound specialist, whatever,
to do another internal in the hospital. So we
met them at the hospital. They were in their
street clothes. It was, radiology was close down.
Wow. But they met us there. It's one of those
points in time that, so this is when they found
it. And I keep saying it, which feels wrong somehow.
But so they're looking and like, this is the
longest ultrasound. It's an internal ultrasound.
It's like the longest ultrasound I ever had in
my life. I'm like half an hour later, they're
still digging. And it's so comfortable. So the
ultrasound tech and the doctor keep exchanging
glantes. And he's given orders. So find her left
ovary. Where's her left ovary? It's right there.
Okay. Tricep, fallopian tube. Where's that? Okay.
That one looks clear. Right? Find her right ovary.
And they looked and they looked. They could not
find my right ovary. And then finally, the technician
is like, and she started whispering to Dr. Miles.
Wait a minute. I think. And they mapped it out
on the screen. I remember turning to look and
they mapped it on the screen. And your ovary,
which is supposed to be the size of a walnut,
my ovary was over three inches long and it had
just exploded. Like three times the size of a
walnut. So the pregnancy had started in my ovary.
And that initial pain was the baby exploding
out of my ovary and trying to get into my fallopian
tube. So it goes, oh, that's why it hurt that
much. Got it. So knowing that was when things,
we could really start making some progress on
medically on me, right? So it had gotten into
the, it had moved into the fallopian tube and
it was a matter of, so do we do surgery right
away? Do we wait? Do we let it, because I should
be able to pass it. Your body should be able
to pass it out and then you're okay. But we decided
not to go into surgery right away. We said, okay,
let's let it pass and see what happens. So it
was probably another week -ish. I don't know
the timing. But once we got to that point, the
doctor said, no, you can't be alone. Like, what
do you mean you can't be alone? And he said,
you have to have a driver with you at all times.
I said, well. Couldn't someone call an ambulance?
No. If you had to call an ambulance, you will
bleed out. Wow. So dad stayed home from work
a couple of days. My parents were living in Loveland.
They came down to be with us a morning or two.
And then there was just one of those days when
dad was home that, again, the pain went through
the roof, literally through the roof. And I actually
asked him this week, I'm like, so what do you
remember about this whole thing? And what was
your point of view? Because we never, honestly,
I never asked him, what was your point of view
from this, right? And the things he remembers
most is probably that last day when I went in
for surgery and that I was in that pain. laying
in the bed and he was trying to get a hold of
Colin and Colin and not getting through to the
doctor and just getting really frustrated because
the doctor had said, anything happens, let us
know. Anything happens, let us know. So finally
got through and the doctor just said, yeah, you're
going to have to bring her into the hospital.
So he brought me in. The only time I've ever
walked into an emergency room and anybody behaved
like it was an emergency. Really? Yeah. You know,
usually you walk into the emergency room and
there's like, here's the paperwork. Yeah. Just
finger cut off. Just bleeding. Right? Like, we'll
get it. Yeah. There's a few before you. Right.
But that's also like the best and worst thing.
Both sides of it. Right. Where it's like, okay,
I know I did the right thing coming to the emergency
room. Right. Because clearly this is an emergency
when they don't. care about what my date of birth
is they're just rolling me back we'll figure
the rest out later right but then also like this
i mean i always tell everyone i'm like if you're
waiting in the emergency room it sucks but it
means you're not dying right yeah it means that
you can wait because if you're dying they don't
care like their job is to save your life so like
you're like well I'm glad I trusted and came
in, but also this is terrifying now. Yeah, and
the doctor probably called ahead because we went
to a vista, and that's where his office was.
But they took me right into an examination room,
laid me down, and the anesthesiologist came in
first. Maybe Dr. Miles came in first. It doesn't
really matter. I do remember the anesthesiologist
because it was kind of a life lesson as well.
So this is 99. There's not very many people with
specialized ringtones or cell phones for that
matter, right? This is pre -iPhone. And he got
a phone call, and his ringtone was, take me out
to the ballgame. And it cracked me up, and I'm
laying there in excruciating pain laughing. And
I told him, it's not fair to make me laugh when
it hurts this much. And afterwards, and usually
you don't see your anesthesiologist after surgery.
He actually came into the recovery room and he
said, you know, when you started to laugh at
my ringtone, I knew you'd be fine because you
had the right attitude about everything. Wow.
Wow. Now that's a lesson to kind of put in your
back pocket, right? Carry with you the rest of
your life. So, yeah, at that point, Dad had called
a neighbor, Karen Hurt, and dropped. You and
Caitlin off with Karen Hurt, and then my parents
drove down from Loveland, picked you all up there.
I do remember, let's see, so from Dad's point
of view, during the surgery, a pastor of the
church we were going to at the time came and
sat with him for a little while, and then Dr.
Miles came out, and he's laparoscopic. surgery
so three tiny little incisions one that blows
you up your abdomen full of gas so that they
can move the instruments and then another one
where the camera comes in and you know so I don't
have any big scars but he came and he talked
to dad to let him know okay she's out of the
woods she's you know she's not It's not eminent
that she will die, which is really where Dad's
head was. That's what he told me this week. He
didn't let me know. And really, it was kind of
funny that we had never talked about it. But
he said, yeah. I was just like, what am I going
to do if she dies? So Dr. Miles came out, offered
him pictures. I'm like, if you want pictures.
And you know Dad. Just what every man wants is
right. Pictures of his wife's uterus and ovaries.
Like, what am I looking at here? Right? Yeah.
And he's especially squeamish. And he's especially...
Oh, really? That's not one. No, he never handled
the blood in our... Like, if one of us was bleeding,
like, you know, got... He's like, Beth! Exactly,
yeah. Now, if you need a splinter, he's your
guy. But no blood. But not... Propious amounts
of blood were not his thing. Still aren't. But
came in and then told him that, yeah, she's a
mess in there. And told dad at that point in
time that I would probably never, I would never
be able to have another child. No. He was far
more gentle with me. I really didn't, I really
didn't grok that until probably the third follow
-up appointment in his office that, where he
finally was like, no. It's not going to happen.
It can't happen. Just with the thought that that
would happen again? No, that I could get pregnant
again. Like your body physically could not. Really?
Okay. Yeah. So what he saw then with the camera
on the inside was, so I was married before and
he was not faithful to me and he brought home
diseases. So I had two fallopian tubes that had
a lot of scar tissue from. infections that probably
chlamydia because I was not aware that I had
it yeah and that's probably why I had an ectopic
pregnancy wow right was because there was because
there was so much scar tissue that it was really
hard for it to even get into the fallopian tube
he also said between that and the retroverted
uterus that the fact that I have two kids is
pretty close to a miracle wow yeah But it really
took, I mean, he tried to gently tell me, you
won't have kids again. You can't have more until
that. And I was like, no, you have to take that
out of your mind. So Dr. Miles, I mean, this
is probably TMI, but Stuart can edit it out.
Dr. Miles was a big guy with hands. I want to
say his hands were like feet. His fingers were
almost like a catcher's mitt. Wow. This guy,
he was wonderful. He wanted to be able to deliver
a baby a day. Wow. I mean, that's who you want
as your baby boy, for sure. And he definitely
had his detriment hands to catch it. So he had
these massive fingers. And I only say that because
he said that when he saw the ovary and then he
saw what had happened to my right fallopian tube
as the... baby traveled through it that what's
supposed to be the size of a drinking straw was
now the size of his thumb which is probably you
know like the size of a hot dog wow and then
it had been stretched out he said that yeah did
that you made it through that much pain was surprising
so so now i know it's genetic it's genetic The
pain with, yeah, the ability to withstand pain
is genetic. Yeah. Caitlin will say she's not
sure it's a good thing. And she's probably not
wrong, to be honest. That's fair. It has its
pros and cons. Right? It's a gift and a curse,
if you will. Yes. It's a blessing and a curse.
Yeah. Yes, because without that, I wouldn't have
been able to drive everybody home when I did
break my ice. Poor kids. It's just impressive.
Take my skates off and move on. That's a story
for another time. It is. Wow. Do you know how
far along you were with? No, they don't. It had
to have been fairly early on. Right. Cause you
said you thought you like, you were expecting
your period. Right. I was expecting to have my
period at that point in time. And this was like
three, four weeks later or something. This wasn't
even three or four. Like this was like happened
probably on the day or so that I would expect
to get my period. Oh, okay. Wow. Wow. What was
like, um, Your emotional, I don't know. Was there
a time that you were like, okay, I accept this?
When did that kind of kick in for you? Or maybe
it hasn't. There were two points that I had to.
accept the situation yeah and the first one was
the ectopic pregnancy i think that was probably
a week or so in when they when they just said
so your numbers are off it's got the baby's not
developing we can't see it in the uterus it must
be an ectopic pregnancy which means that it's
not viable of course then maybe you could have
we might have been able to there was i don't
even know if there was google in 99 may have
been i think that's the year it was Or it would
have been like Yahoo was a search at that time.
And, you know, we would have found or gone to
the library. Yeah. And picked up a book. Could
not get that information that quickly. So probably
a week or two, a week, week and a half in was
like, okay, this isn't going to be a pregnancy
that's going to come to term. So there was that.
And then there was at the end. And like I say,
that was probably three weeks. You're never going
to have another child. Your body cannot. produce
another child at this point in time and so you
said that at like you had never heard of this
which is also like for you it's kind of crazy
i mean grandma wasn't a labor and delivery nurse
but she was an emergency room nurse and she was
not shy about sharing information with you no
she wasn't so like to say for you to have never
heard of this being crazy like is actually kind
of crazy but like after this experience did you
like know anyone who like then talked about it
or were you just like alone in this? Like, this
is my experience and I, you know, I don't know
anyone who can relate because, or like know anyone.
Cause I feel like right now there's a lot more,
you know, things are less taboo. Like not just
because of you, but I'm like, I know what an
ectopic pregnancy is. Like I know other people
who've had them and who've talked about them.
You know, people talk about their miscarriages,
but in the nineties that just like kind of wasn't,
As common to talk about. So after this experience,
were you able to like talk to anyone who had
an experience like that? So there was, I think
Renee had a neck type of pregnancy and which
was someone that was going to a church that we
were at. So someone that I did not know very
well. And I remember them being like adamant
that, so this isn't going to ever be able to
be a baby. I feel like that would be just so
hard to accept that. And I feel like especially
having two like healthy, normal pregnancies,
because again, like you said at the beginning,
it's not like either of our pregnancies were
high risk or something like that. And, you know,
if you consistently have high risk pregnancies
and you're like, you kind of have that in the
back of your head. But when you have healthy
pregnancies, you're like, what do you mean? Like,
yeah, this is how pregnancy works. Yeah. So and
afterwards, it's not like, yeah, there was no
ectopic pregnancy support group or anything like
that. It was just move on. Yeah. Wow. From there.
Yeah. You're never going to have kids getting
by. Pretty much. Yeah. What was that process
like for you? Like, okay, you told us the gynecologist,
he's telling you like, you are not, you cannot
have any more kids. When you get home that day,
what, like, tell us what that was like. And then
from trying to move forward from there. So it
was disappointing. Grievously disappointing.
I mean, it wasn't just disappointing. I was disappointed.
Yeah, it really hurt emotionally. It hurt a lot.
Erica didn't help any. I mean, I think one of
the hardest, seriously, one of the hardest things
through it was I remember walking up the stairs
with her sitting on the stairs praying for a
little brother. And I don't remember if that
was during the ectopic pregnancy or after the
ectopic because I was walking up the stairs.
And in your head, you're like, we're praying
about this, but I know it's not going to happen.
How do you tell your three -year -old? Yeah,
you can't. Yeah, mom can't have babies anymore.
And we were around a bunch of people that we
got together with the Ballards on a fairly regular
basis. And she was always pregnant. And she was
always pregnant. Yeah. Right? So I know at this
point in time, I'm 65. No way that I'm going
to get pregnant. Right. But there's even a part
of me now that is a little bit like disappointed.
My husband didn't say anything until I asked
him this week. So what was your point of view?
You know, he was like, well, but to see him with
tears in his eyes and say. Well, first there
was the chance that I was going to lose you.
That was the biggest. That was really sad. That
was really hard for me. I wanted to fix this
and I couldn't. And I was really disappointed
that we couldn't have any more kids. But I didn't
want to say that to you because I knew you would
take that to heart. So now I know. Wow. Like,
oh. Knowing when to hold back is probably part
of 35 years of marriage, to be honest. Yeah.
Yeah. I feel that probably was. emotional to
hear now oh gosh yes yeah absolutely and also
shows like how supportive he is as a husband
too yeah yeah to be walking through that with
you and know what he can and cannot say in the
moment right yeah right and then i think he just
probably pushed it down yeah over the years and
then you're asking me to talk about this is what
brings it up again like i probably have not thought
about that we walked through this together. I
mean, every once in a while, like you'll hear
the term for some reason and they're like, Oh
yeah, I went through that. Yeah. And then move
on. Right. Erica, what are you, cause you're
like a little bit emotional right now. What are
you feeling? Like, I don't know. This wasn't
supposed to be my interview. Um, no, I think
just hearing dad's perspective. Um, yeah. Yeah.
Like, You've shared, not in this much detail,
but we've talked about this throughout the years.
Again, I don't know when I knew about ectopic
pregnancy, but that's the thing. From a fairly
young age, I'm sure at age appropriate, you guys
have always been pretty good at not oversharing
it too young. Yeah, so I think just hearing Dad's
perspective of... Like carrying that for all
these years. Yeah, and then thinking about my
family. You know, and Stuart, how we would feel
if we couldn't have more kids. Right. Yeah. What
do you think in all of this from the start to
finish, what was the hardest part of this for
you? Really walking by her on the, walking by
Erica on the stairs with her praying that because
she wanted another, a younger sibling. Yeah.
Because I can, it's my personality. I can deal
with pretty much anything. That you throw in
my way. But then when it comes to my kids, it
takes on a different tone. Right. And so there's
nothing I can do about this. Well, like you said,
like, as an adult, you can rationalize things,
right? Where it's like, yes, this is painful
and this sucks. And, you know, I'm mad that this
is happening. But, like, I understand the logic.
Right. You're like, I can understand how biology
works. And, you know, I can focus on the logic
and, like. Remove emotion, more or less. But
little kids, you can't do that. You can't, right?
When I think about our faith, I like to think
that God has a purpose in everything and things
happen for a reason and that God can turn everything
to good. He does. Yeah. Absolutely. When you
think about this experience, what good have you
seen come from it? It's a hard one to answer
because I want to say this, that maybe there's
someone that will hear this, that this will be
not, it could never be encouraging, but it could
be, could bring them some peace for something
that they're going through or that they went
through, right? Or that they will go through.
I'm like, I remember I heard that podcast. I
will, I will listen to the doctor sooner than
she did or something. Yeah. Because there haven't
been, like I said, there's, there was, there's
no ectopic pregnancy support group. So I haven't
been able to talk, you don't talk to anybody,
you know, certainly hearing dad's point of view
has been, was very emotionally. feels very supportive
right not realizing I mean just to have that
conversation with him and see a bit of the fear
in his face that he lived then like I didn't
know what I would do without you yeah right yeah
yeah so I guess good yeah as you bring up faith
though So we both came to Christ at the age,
I was 36. So it was when the year that Erica
was born. So this is only three years later than
that. Wow. And I think it would have been so
much harder if I did not have the faith that
I had at the time. And then also the people of
faith surrounding me. So I know I was being held
up in prayer. Wow. And I had friends that would
come by and do things. Jumping back a little
bit, like what? Did you tell people, I guess?
Like, how did... Just, yeah, I think... How did
those conversations... Because it probably wasn't
the normal, like, we're having a baby pregnancy
announcement. Yeah. You already knew the numbers
were off. Right. So, like, and if people were
praying for you, obviously they had some idea
something was happening. So, like, what did you
tell people and, I guess, how, more or less?
So, yeah, I think it was we had a small group
of friends. Actually, probably... Part of the
babysitting co -op, which would have been, right?
I think we all have kids now. Yeah. Just, we
did tell them that it was just an ectopic pregnancy
and that it would, you know, that I was going
through a medical, it's basically a medical emergency.
Emergency not as in dire at that point in time,
but that this would be an ongoing. Wow. Yeah.
Yeah. Do you feel like it brought you and your
husband closer together in that time? Or do you
feel like it? May have pulled you apart for a
bit. I don't think it pulled us apart at all.
Yeah. It probably brought us closer together.
I mean, we just celebrated our 35th anniversary.
And I think looking back, there's those times
that it's just one of those touch points of look
at how much we've been able to get through together.
Wow, yeah. That we'll be able to get through
anything. That we can get through whatever happens.
Yeah. Whether God throws something our way or
it's just life. Yeah. Do you wish he had brought
up like his experience or that you had had the
opportunity to talk about dad's experience sooner?
Not 20, 27 years later. 27. Doing the math. Talking
about communication in marriage. See us next
week. Communication in marriage. Again, like
it would have been really smart to. Not say anything
immediately, right? Right. Because, again, I
would not handle that well. Yeah. But, yeah,
within, like, maybe the next year or two years.
The next year or two. Or even, you know, 10 years
later, again, instead of 27. Maybe. It probably
wouldn't have made a whole lot of difference,
I don't think. I mean, part of it is, right,
you already have two kids. You're trying to live
life. You've got your mortgage and you've got
your this and you've got your that and you're
taking care of, you're just making life work,
right? And to have had that conversation sooner,
I don't know if it would have changed a whole
lot. Yeah. It didn't even occur to me to really
ask him, to be honest. Because again, at the
time, so he was consulting. And he would take
a consulting note. He took a job with Birch Telecom
in Kansas City for six months. He would fly out
every Sunday night and he would fly back every
Friday. Wow. He just happened at this point in
time to have a contract with Level 3. So it was
in Broomfield. And so he happened to be in town,
had a contract in town at the time, which is
really fortunate. Yeah. Because I don't know.
It would have been really hard otherwise. Yeah.
Wow. Okay, thinking about your whole experience,
what do you wish someone had said to you in this
time, if anything? You know, they probably all
said it, and I just was not hearing it. Yeah.
I mean, so I think the question is, what do I
wish I would have listened to? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
What do I wish I actually would have heard? And
that's that, yeah, this is not a viable pregnancy
and that there's measures that we could take
that you wouldn't have to go through as much
pain as you did. Like you could have had this,
a shorter period of time through it. And then
what's something, if someone right now is listening
to this and like you said, going through this,
recently gone through something like this, what
would you say to them? Wow. I'm praying for you.
I will sit with you. Let me do your dishes, do
the laundry. You'll get through this. Yeah, I
think that's... Yeah, I love it. I think it's
so much more known today. We talk about a lot
of things a lot more than we did. Yeah, yeah.
It's just true. Yeah, and again, with the internet...
for the good and the bad. There's just a lot
more access to information, right? You know,
it's like, I know a mom who very different situation,
but she got like her kids test results for, um,
you know, some tests that he had. And she's like,
we're not going to go to the doctor till next
week. So I just like Googled what all of this
meant and gotten general idea. You know, obviously
we're still going to go talk to the doctor, but
now I know like now I'm not just waiting. Whereas,
you know, there's just so much more access to
information. Again, obviously there's some, there's
definitely negativity to that too. So yeah, like
now I know like if I had that first pain, I would
probably Google it. Yeah. Oh, for sure. You know,
what could this possibly be? I would have, you
know, so there's just like different access to
things now. And again, then the like taboo of
what you talk about, what you don't talk about
has shifted and has changed where it's like,
you know, you're allowed to talk about the pain
and pregnancy. The pain of losing your pregnancy
and losing your baby in a way that for years
it was just like, no, you just, you ignore that.
Well, that was one of the big differences with
actually being in a community of faith in a church,
in a Christian church, as opposed to out of it
was they talked about those things. Since we
did have a small group of friends, there were
men there that knew. were supporting dad in the
way that men support each other, which is very
different than the ways women support each other.
But he knew he had people he could talk to and
that were praying for him as well. So that was
really, I think those were really good things
and, and that they would talk about it. And I
think that's leaked out into the world more than
it was. Yeah. Right. Definitely. Absolutely.
Well, thank you for sharing your story and, yeah,
this small part of your life. And, yeah, I'm
just super grateful for your vulnerability. And,
yeah, I pray that this touches somebody and someone
who's going through it or has gone through this
or even gone through miscarriage. Or maybe knows
someone who needs support. Yeah, but, yeah, I
just appreciate you. Yeah, thank you so much.
Absolutely. If somebody reaches out to either
of you through the Internet. I'd be happy to
chat with them. Well, let's kind of switch gears
a little bit. And then a little happier note.
Yeah, let's end with our wins of the week. Erica,
do you want to go first? Okay, I'll go first.
Okay, great. This is less about my kids and more
about just like being a mom. My daily bra was
just like completely falling apart as it does.
I get that. Yeah. And also my daily sweats because
I do have sweats that I wear most days. Also
like giant hole and I replaced them. Wow. And
it was one of those things where when I like
went to like the sweats in particular for some
reason I was like why am I keeping these? I should
just throw them away. I have other pants I can
wear. So did you throw them away? I did just
throw them away and there was no like. Because
I was like, why would I give them, give away
a pair of sweats that I'm not willing to wear?
Not because I don't, you know, it's like, it's
different. You're like, not my style anymore,
whatever. Like, no, this has a giant hole, like,
in the back, in the butt. That's funny. And then,
yes, bras, the same thing, where it's like, I
had one that was just, like, completely falling
apart. And then I replaced it and I got multiple.
Wow. So that way I can, you know, switch through.
Wow. Switch through and not just wear the exact
same one every day and have it last less time
because of that. You deserve a bra that more
than one bra that fits you. Yeah. Yeah. That's
amazing. Okay, I can go. So my win, as you guys
know, we've been having some beautiful weather
in Colorado. Winter has not quite hit us, which
I am okay with, and I would appreciate if it
just passed by us. But yesterday was like 65
degrees, and it's the beginning of February when
we're recording this. So we spent like the majority
of the day outside yesterday. We have a strider
bike for Colt, which is like the one when you
like push with your feet. And he's only tried
it one other time, which was like probably like
three months ago. And he was like not balancing
at all. And Michael had to hold him the whole
time. And so we like let him try it again yesterday.
And he just was like going for it. And I'm like,
where did you learn this? And it was so fun.
And he was so into it. And like. Cruz is just,
like, crawling in our grass everywhere trying
to eat rocks. As you do. Yeah. And so I'm, like,
throwing the rocks out of the way. And then we,
like, played catch with the football. And it
was just, like, oh, my gosh. It was so great.
And I was, like, I think this is, like, the highlight
of my week because everyone's having fun. We're
just laughing a ton. And, like, we're not sitting
and watching TV or stuck inside. And it just
was the day of my dreams. That's so nice. So,
yeah. It was great. Yep. Nice. Okay, Beth, what
about you? My win of the week, I have a daughter
that would ask me to do this, to be here. So
that's as an adult, that's good. Yeah, otherwise
it's just that the little kids love to come to
our house and play with us on Mondays and that
we get to play together. It's funny you're talking
about fresh air because I meant to tell you guys
this and totally forgot. There was one day. He
said something about getting fresh air. Maybe
it was like nice. We were going to open the windows
and I said something about fresh air. And Lloyd
goes, fresh air and sunshine. Fresh air and sunshine.
We talk about that. Well, and I was like, I don't
say that all that often. So I was like, oh, buddy,
who's talking to you about fresh air and sunshine?
Papa. I was like, oh, okay. Yep. That makes sense.
We're going out to get some fresh air and sunshine.
I love it. We got out twice on Monday for fresh
air and sunshine. It did feel really good when
he got frightened at the, some. Idiot. Let their
dog off leash at the playground. Smack him upside
the head. Yeah, right. Would you think, please?
And the dog ran close enough to Lloyd that Lloyd
was afraid he was going to get knocked over.
They let their dog go so that they could greet
a friend dog that it had. And they just started,
you know, dogs. And they're probably, you know,
80 -pound dogs. Yeah, that could be frightening
for a little two -year -old. Yeah, the dog's
as tall as he was. Absolutely. And that Lloyd
was like, can I go home? Oh. And just that he
felt safe and comfortable. I want to go home.
Yeah. Because we had pretty literally just gotten
there. Oh. But it was just enough to be overwhelming
for him. Yeah. So it's always a win -win. I know
that he feels that either, both of the kids feel
comfortable enough to ask for whatever they want.
Yeah. That's sweet. Yeah. Well, thank you for
being on today. Yeah. Maybe we'll have you on
again in the future to share more of your story.
But yeah, follow us on social media at nomanualpodcast.
We'd love to just hear from you guys if you are
going through this, have gone through this. We'd
love to support you however best we can. But
otherwise, we'll see you next week. See you next
week. Thanks for spending this time with us today.
Motherhood can feel overwhelming, but remember,
you're never walking this road alone. We hope
our conversation reminded you that your story
matters, your struggles are valid, and your joy
is worth celebrating. Join us next time on No
Manual MomCast, where we keep showing up for
each other, one conversation at a time. Chocolate
chip cookie. That's so cute.