Hi, everyone. Welcome back to No Manual, a momcast
where this is a place for moms to listen and
hear about the realities of motherhood, the good,
the bad, the ugly. And today we get a really
special guest. Her name is Ellie Flowers. And
Ellie has a crazy story. That's a good way to
put it. When we talked about having you on, we
were like, do we just need the series? Yeah,
the Ellie series. Some motherhood. It's been
wild. Yes, yeah. So before we have you intro
your family, let's hop into our mom moments.
Okay. Do you want to go first, Erica? Sure. So
Lloyd is learning to differentiate things right
now. So one of the big ones is we have apple
juice and apple sauce, and those are different
things. But he calls apple slices apple cookies.
I mean, great. I'm just going to run with that
forever. And I hope that... Isn't that the best?
To like our dying day, we're just calling apple
slices apple cookies because it's so cute. And
he gets so excited for them. He's like, apple
cookies. You're like, yes, this is a dessert,
buddy. These are cookies. It's just so cute.
And it's also really fun to like hear his little
voice actually saying things and like connecting
dots. Yeah, that's the best. So cute. That's
the best. Okay, my mom moment. So our house...
Got hit with the stomach bug earlier this week.
I saw that. Terrible. Thankfully, Colt was the
only one who got it. I don't really know for
sure if it was, like, actually the stomach flu.
But all that to say, he puked twice. Like right
in the morning, he slept terrible the night before,
like maybe got five hours of sleep. And so we
were like, maybe he's just so exhausted he feels
sick. And that's like, that happens to me where
I'm like, I'm so exhausted and so sleep deprived
that I feel so sick. But anyways, so we thought
Colt was teething for some reason. He has all
of his teeth, which like his next. teeth he would
get is his five -year -old molars and he's two
so he's like really early on teething and so
we're like maybe he's actually getting teeth
so michael like felt back in the back of his
gums and cute and colt literally puked as he
was doing this all over michael all over our
carpet all over our bed and it just it was like
sour milk this was like so gross And then, like,
maybe an hour later, Colt comes running up to
me and is like, Mommy. And then he just, like,
puked on me, on my face, like, my chin, all down
my neck, onto my shirt. And then I, like, grabbed
him and, like, rushed him to the toilet for him
to, like, continue puking. And that was the start
of just, like, not a great day in our house.
Really? That wasn't, like, the best start to
your day? I mean, you know. It just makes me
think of, have you ever seen the movie Parenthood?
Yes. There's a scene with Steve Martin where
his daughter's like, Dad, I don't feel so good.
And he's like, okay, honey, do you feel like
you have to throw up? And she says, okay, and
just throws up on him. Like that is that scenario
right there. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, I wasn't
as grossed out as I thought I would be. It's
like you're in kind of like that adrenaline where
it's like, okay, I need to help my child. yes
this is disgusting i can gross out i honestly
didn't this is gonna sound really bad because
i was like just trying to take care of colt i
didn't even take like change my shirt for like
probably like 30 minutes and i'd puke on me so
it happened you know priorities but okay ellie
do you have a mom moment yes um this is this
is last week i was i had all five kids by myself
which you know I signed up for that. I say it
like I'm like, can you believe I was by myself
with all my kids? Yeah, that's a lot. It is a
lot. I can't imagine. It's so hard. And I have
a kiddo who is just like, he is tough. And we
were going to go play dodgeball. It was supposed
to be like this really fun thing. He was really
excited about it. But he just went outside, took
a swig of water, and just spit it in his brother's
face. And I was like, now you're in timeout.
Now we don't get to do dodgeball right away or
whatever. Kick ball, not dodge ball. That's a
little intense. Our kids are really small. And
so I take him to a room and I'm like, I'm going
to come back in five minutes and come talk to
you. Five minutes go by. I go in. He is gone.
The window is open. He has escaped. He's five
years old. He has escaped. Time out. He's in
the backyard playing like. I mean, at least it
leads to the backyard. Oh my gosh. Well, and
later that week he told me he was going backyard,
went to the backyard and went out there and he
was, he had left the backyard, hopped the fence,
gone around the neighborhood and was in someone
else's backyard because he had lost a toy and
just jumped someone's fence. This kid, it sounds
like I have a teenager. He set a fire that week.
There's also this level that you're like. I'm
so proud you're really smart. He's so resourceful.
Yeah, I'm glad that you're good at problem solving
and figuring things out. He's like, my toy is
lost. I'm going to get it myself. But please
don't do this anymore. Oh, my gosh. I pray every
day. I'm like, Jesus, please help me parent this
guy. Please protect him and help me parent him.
Seriously, and channel all of that into something
good. Wow. That's wild. That's boys for you.
That's boys. Man, that's that boy. Do you want
to introduce your family? Yes, yes, yes. Okay,
so I have five kiddos. The oldest is six. The
youngest is four months old, so I'm ranging in
there. The oldest three are adopted from foster
care, and the younger two are biological. And
it is four boys, the oldest, and the youngest
is a girl. So sweet. That's our group. It's your
crazy. Amazing group. Yes. Love it. I love them.
You have three adopted kids. Yep. Have you always
wanted to adopt? Kind of. My family did foster
care growing up. And so that was like just always
part of like my family makeup was like there's
extra kids in the house. But my parents never
adopted. So that was like foster care doesn't.
necessarily mean that so when we signed up to
do foster care it wasn't like let's adopt kids
because again that wasn't my experience I was
like that's not usually what happens and lo and
behold I have I have so many so so yes and no
that's also a really funny thing for you to say
it that way because for me like When I learned
about foster care as a kid, I think it was like,
mom, why do orphanages not exist anymore? It's
like, well, foster care exists. So like from
a young age, my perspective was always like,
well, foster care leads to adoption, obviously.
Right. So it's really funny to have you from
this very different perspective. We're like,
no, foster care doesn't lead to adoption. Yeah.
Which is like, obviously it's in between. Totally.
But just being raised in that environment. What
was that like? It was, I mean. hard but it was
also I think it just it showed me like what a
family on mission looks like and I just loved
that I loved that your day -to -day can be actively
serving Christ and yeah having kids in your home
is just a way to do that and so I just always
knew I wanted to do it too so well was it really
difficult with your parents fostering I guess
Did you ever feel jealousy or felt like you were
kind of left aside? There were times that were
harder. I would say like when I was 15, I had
a 17 -year -old foster brother. And that was
the first time my parents had broken birth order.
So I was no longer the oldest. Oh, wow. And so
that was like, that was just a wonky dynamic
and, you know, having a teenage. boy in my house
all of a sudden was just like, what is going
on? But honestly, I didn't feel jealousy. Like
my mom, I don't know if she just did a really
good job. I don't know if like most of the time
the age gap was like, you know, I was 10 and
we had a baby. Like I was just a little mom and
I loved that. So that's sweet. I know that's
not everyone's story, but I really liked it.
Yeah. That's great. I think that like. I mean,
I think that shows that God called you to it
from the beginning. Yeah. Like prepared your
heart right from the beginning. Yeah. No, I agree.
Totally. So Caleb is your husband. And how did
he feel about you guys entering into foster care?
And what did that look like? Yeah. So we, you
know, have known each other since high school.
When he started courting me in high school, he
knew that was like, I'm doing foster care when
I grow up. So from 18, 17, that was implanted
in his brain that if he's going to marry this
girl, that's what's happening. And honestly,
although it has been something that God put on
my heart, he has been just as much a part of
it being his mission too. He's so great. I also
know a lot of people where it's like the dad's
hesitant, but that wasn't my experience. He's
been so great. That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. That's
really great. What was your guys' fostering experience
like? So tell us more about like, okay, so you
guys get certified. Yep. When was that and then
what? How long had you been married when you
got certified? We went to the orientation. We
had been married for two years. Okay. And we
were 24. I'm like, yeah, that's so dumb. I mean,
God called us to it, but I look back and I'm
like, oh my gosh. Yeah, we had a teeny tiny,
like 1 ,000 square foot home. It had two bedrooms,
one bathroom. The bathroom was so small, I couldn't
even fit a bathtub. Like it was like just one
little tiny standing shower. But we just felt
like this is what we were supposed to do before
biological kids. I'm not really sure why, but
yeah, so we got certified. So our first call
was for seven and nine -year -old sisters. We
got the call at like 1030 at night. And we actually
weren't certified yet. I was still missing a
class. Caleb was still missing a background check
from a state like Virginia when he was in college
for a year there. Like we were not certified.
And they were like. you know like we we have
these girls and I was like well I only we have
like one twin bed and a crib like we don't have
a place for them to sleep and they're like oh
it's totally fine like we can certify your couch
well I was like oh man these people must be really
desperate to call two 24 year olds who've never
done this before and for a kid to sleep on a
couch like but I was like At the time, like,
when you say yes, you're not saying yes necessarily
for the night. I was like, I can't do that long
term. Like, that just didn't feel right. So we
said no. But not even 24 hours later, we got
our first placement, which was a three -week
-old baby boy. And honestly, like, now I look
back and I'm like, I was so naive, even though
my parents did it. But, like, I was so excited.
I was so excited to get that placement call.
And to have a baby come to our house. And yeah,
now being on the flip side of it, I'm like, I
know what that mom was going through at that
time and just like kills me. But yeah, so we
had him for five months and he reunified with
his mom and it was so excruciating. I cannot
even imagine that. Yeah. That is the part of
me that feels like I think everyone should. pray
about fostering adopting everything like that
but that is the part to me that makes it so difficult
to even see myself even trying to yeah foster
yeah it was excruciating yeah and I had built
a beautiful relationship with a mom like I was
I was like so on her team and really believed
in reunification but being first -time parents
like that was our baby we went from like first
-time parents to being empty nesters and that
was like so hard like we just had to close that
nursery door my mom came one day and just cleaned
everything out because I was like I can't even
like look at my own tiny house like yeah it was
so painful And, you know, that story continues
and still continuing and it gets, you know, it's
just still more painful. But so, yeah, we had
we had that experience. And then a month later,
we asked for a break right away. Like I remember
like as the baby was leaving, the caseworker
gave me a hug and she was like. I'll put you
on pause. And I was like, thank you. Cause I
was like, I don't want to say it, but yes, yes.
Cause they had already asked us to take a two
year old and she saw how hurt I was. And so she
was like, okay, you guys take a break. So we
took a break. And then the week that we said,
okay, we're ready. We got the call for a 10 month
old baby boy. And he was a rough situation with,
he was coming with a broken arm from a foster
family. So he's been removed from a foster family
to be with us. So it was a bad situation. Does
that just like make you so mad as a foster parent?
Like there's almost a level of like, not that
I get it with the bio parents, but it's like,
oh, like that's the situation, right? Is that
bio parents are maybe in a bad place for whatever
reason. They can't competently parent their kiddo.
Right. But then it's like, you're a foster parent.
You signed up for this. Yes. Oh, it was so hard
for my. brain to like understand like yeah it
was yeah and then it made it really hard to build
a relationship with the parents because they
were like What did you do? Like, you know, like
foster parents cannot be trusted. I got my kid
taken away and then someone broke his arm. Which
I would feel the same way. Oh, rightfully so.
So I remember the first time I met mom, I just
was like, I was like, let me be so clear. I'm
so sorry that happened to you. And it was just,
it was tough. So it took a while to actually
meet her because she was very angry for a while.
But then she was in that meeting. She, I remember
she looked across at me and she was like, I can
tell how much you love my son. And I'd only had
him for like a couple of weeks at this point.
And I was like, oh, you know, like it kind of
caught me off guard because I did love him. But
I was still like very hurt by my last placement
leaving. Like I had my guard up majorly. But
it just shows like the tenderness of these parents.
Like they, the fact that she had capacity to
look at me and know that like I loved her child,
like her baby. It just like it just speaks volumes
of like her love for him. Right. So anyways.
And it shows that like I think it's really easy
to as an outsider be like, oh, they're bad parents.
And I'm sure like there are legitimately bad
parents out there. We know that is for sure.
But like, oh, yeah. No, a lot of these are just
their parents who love their kid. Yeah. Yeah.
And there's complications with that. Sure. But.
their parents that love their kid. I think it
can be really hard to not just like villainize
them, right? Of like, well, your kid's in foster
care. So what did you do? It's like, totally.
They love their kid. Yeah. There's brokenness
there for sure. Totally. That needs to be addressed.
But yeah. And yeah. And get to know her story.
And she was in foster care growing up. Wow. You
know, like she doesn't know how to take care
of a baby. Like she aged out of foster care.
She never had a family, you know? And so. Yeah.
So then seven months later, it's March, 2020,
the pandemic hits and we, the foster parents
all get like a mass email and they're like, we
need to know who feels comfortable having kids
come in during this time. Yeah. Cause they have,
you know, there's all sorts of. Things are going
to still happen. Totally. Totally. But there
are a lot of foster families who are like, I'm
not comfortable with that. And so we had just
emailed and we're like, if you need us, let us
know. And it was nine days later that we got
a call for our second kiddo. He was nine days
old, I believe, or something like that. How old
was first? Do you want to use yours or no? Oh,
sure. So Roman is our oldest. At this point,
he was 16 months old. Okay. Wow. Yeah. And then
Justice was born. So we got the call for Justice,
and he was still in the hospital, but we're like,
yeah, sure, we'll take him, you know. And so
we're now in the thick of doing 202 with foster
care. We're doing seven visits a week. Oh, my
gosh. We're doing PT, we're doing OT, and we're
both working full -time. Wow. I mean, I don't
even see how that's possible. We both had two
under two. Without any of that. Yes. And because
of the pandemic, all of our visits were virtual.
So we're literally have like FaceTiming parents
with caseworkers on it for an hour at a time.
Just feeding a baby a bottle. It was. Or trying
to get the toddler in the camera while the mom's
trying to read a book. It was absolutely insane.
Absolutely insane. I FaceTime my sister once
a week with Lloyd, and it's like 10 minutes,
and he's like, I'm done. I'm done. Because you're
two. Yes, and legally by the courts, they're
like, we have to make this last at least 45 minutes,
or we're not legally doing what we're supposed
to be doing for them to see them. Oh, my gosh.
I mean. the outbursts from our kids the awkwardness
with the bio parents like yeah it was so I mean
we had parents like telling us how like we're
not parenting right like it was so horrible yeah
it was so horrible but also there were good sides
too where like we did get to like build relationship
with the parents a little bit more like they
built trust with us while also the brokenness
of the situation so when And Justice, the middle,
was 14 months old. Dad relinquished his rights.
And we got the call from the caseworker. And
she said, I want to read to you what dad said.
You know, he wrote down how much he wants you
to adopt him, blah, blah, blah. And it was so
sweet. And then she was like, but that's actually
not why I'm calling. Like his mom had another
baby. And so at this point, we had a two -year
-old and a 14 -month -old. and a newborn and
so we're at three under three all foster care
and now this new baby like his case is a completely
new case like this does not mean like he's going
to be adopted or like we have to do the whole
thing again yeah because at that point you were
in process to potentially adopt roman injustice
right yep yep and there were separate cases too
but termination for both of them happened around
the same time. Okay. So we thought we were in
the, like, we're getting almost, like, done with
this whole thing. And then we got MJ. So then
we were doing three under three, still working
full time. Like, it was just absolutely crazy.
But I see God's hand in all of it. Yeah. And
then we move on to biological kids because eight
months later I got pregnant. Not on purpose.
Wow. So MJ was eight months when you got pregnant?
Yes. And was it like, when you guys found out
you were pregnant, was it like a, oh my God,
what the heck are we doing here? Or like, we
are so excited, but no. No. I was, I was, yeah,
I got off birth control because I was like. I
want to get pregnant. No, this is February. I
want to get pregnant in the fall. You're like,
there's no way we're going to get pregnant right
away. And I've heard you're supposed to get off
of it for a while to let your body adjust, blah,
blah, blah. There was one time in that first
cycle. Pregnant. Okay, God. Yes. So grateful,
like, that. It was easy. It was also just not
the plan. And it was also overwhelming because
I had a three -year -old and not even two -year
-old and an eight -month -old. And it's funny
because your middle two, like, without context,
they look like they could be your kids. Oh, yeah.
They're white compared to our brown child, yes.
But even, like, they have, like, similar complexions
and, like, they don't look drastically different.
You know, it's not like, oh, they're... southern
european and you're a northern european you know
it's not even like like you look realistically
like they could be biological totally so when
you just like walk down the street with your
gaggle of oh now you get a lot under six years
old a lot of you got your hands full like that's
a good one i haven't heard that one before right
wow yes but yes and so when i found i was pregnant
that week we were adopting justice our middle
and that was our first adoption So it was quite
the week that I was pregnant and had our first
adoption. A lot of things in just a few days.
Yes. Yep. Yeah. And then we've had a few other
placements in there. We had like a 12 -year -old
for literally a day. And that was the plan. Like
he was like in between. Now this is when we had
all four boys. So we had all four boys and this
like young. kiddo but yeah the plan was that
he just needed somewhere to go in between placements
and that was so hard because i was just like
i just wanted him to feel so comfortable so i
like let him watch tv all day and i bought him
all these snacks and taco bell and then the dream
for well that's why i was like it's just a day
and so but then afterwards his caseworker texted
me and she was like he asked if he could like
live with you guys like oh because he thought
that was oh yeah oh yeah all the time like buddy
even if you did it would not be like that yes
yes and like as he was leaving he was like i'd
really like to like stay like oh my gosh telling
a kid that like you can't stay in our house was
heartbreaking horrible especially at that age
he'd been in foster care his whole life like
yeah we also had five under Four. Yes, five under
four because we had a two -year -old come stay
with us for four nights. It was one of those
things where he was just in a county building
and no one could take him. And our caseworker
was just like, I know you guys will just say
yes. So I was like, yep, you told me the right
thing. I'm sure he can come stay with us. I can't
let a kid sleep in a county building. Yes, a
two -year -old. A two -year -old. Come on. Absolutely
not. Absolutely not. And the craziest, he stayed
with us. He's the cutest thing. It was so horrible
when he left. Like, even after five days, I was
like, oh, my gosh. Like, he was the most beautiful,
sweet thing ever. My kids were like, why is he
leaving? Like, my oldest was really affected
by it. Because then for your kids, for the most
part, it was like kids just kept getting added.
They never really went away. Yes. And so it was
like really hard to explain things. And I was,
you know, so this was like the part of foster
care was like, okay, now like we have forever
kids, which was the first time it felt like,
okay, we have forever kids. Now we're trying
to explain foster care to them. Even though they
experienced it, like it's different. And after
that, we were like, I don't think. we can keep
doing this. Like it really affected our kids
in a really hard way. Yeah. Then it's also very
different for like you growing up with a stable
family dynamic. Yeah. Your parents were like,
hey, we're going to bring in these kids who need
a place to stay. They may stay for a long time.
They may stay forever. They may not. Totally.
But now. But I'm secure in knowing. Yeah, but
you're secure because you've always had mom and
dad there for you where you have these little
kids who from day one pretty much. Yeah. It's
just everything's been up in the air. Totally.
So to have that, like, different, like, why are
they leaving? Yes. And it's that young of an
age, too, is really tough. Yeah, yeah. And we
had talked to a therapist about it because we
were like, and this is the craziest thing. Caleb
and I were recommended to go to a couples therapist
by my therapist. I was looking for a couples
therapist. She was like, this is, like, the girl
you should go to. So we go to this lady. In our
first appointment, she goes. I think I know your
son's mom. She was the group home director for
our oldest mom when she was in a group home in
foster care. Whoa. I was like, what? And she
was like, I have pictures of her as a young girl.
It was the craziest thing. So anyway, she was
like the totally God -ordained person to help
us decide. like attachment stuff with our kids
like she just got that world yeah but anyways
she was like I think your job right now is to
like make your kids feel secure like as much
as you want to take which we didn't it wasn't
like we wanted to keep doing it but there was
also like this siblings were being born and it
was like yeah just too hard yeah I can't even
imagine that side of like deciding hey we we
can't take the sibling which just happened like
two weeks ago we got a call wow yeah so my youngest
danny who's four months old she there's an eight
weeks younger than her sibling of one of our
kiddos gosh so you didn't want to uh little twins
little twins no do you feel like that was like
a should we or like we did we didn't have the
should we like For sure, because it was like
it's worth the conversation. Especially with
siblings, right? Yes. Because it's very different
to say no to a different family. Totally. But
it's like this is their brother. Yeah. Yeah.
So, yeah, we had that conversation, and it ultimately
was like we would be a disservice to all of our
children, including that baby. And it's just
praying that whoever that baby ends up with,
you can like maybe build a relationship with.
And we've seen them twice. That's awesome. Yes.
Since then, which again, like this recently happened,
but we've all like gone together. They also already
have an older sibling in another adoptive home.
So we already were doing the adoptive family
get together. So now we have another family thrown
in there. Yeah. Wow. Would you consider fostering
in the future? Maybe if your kids are older and
more stable, like I know obviously that's kind
of a loaded question because it depends on a
lot of things. But like if you got to the point
where it's like kids all feel stable and like
it wouldn't ruin their lives to do it, would
you consider fostering again? I think we would
consider there's a sibling of our oldest who's
two and he still lives with his parents. And
I pray that they can do it. Like, you know, like
that is my prayer. But I think I'm like there's
always going to be a spot for him because, you
know, our oldest, he's the brown kid. He doesn't
have a sibling in our family. Everyone else has
a biological sibling in our family. And so I
think we have a spot saved for that being an
option. Again, it's not my prayers that that
doesn't need to happen and that they can have
a relationship at some point, you know. Right.
I think that's our priority is our little family
and that kiddo. That makes sense. Yeah. Do you
have relationships with any of the bio families
of your adopted kiddos? No, for two of our boys,
and not because we didn't want to. We gave them
our phone number. At the goodbye visit, I had
said we would love to stay in a relationship
with you. This is the dad. The mom was never
involved. And we just never heard from him, but
he was, I mean, he gave us a hug and he was like,
there's no one better to parent him than you
guys. And so I have a really great relationship
with him, but then I think it was too painful
for him to like stay involved. But I know his
niece, we got to know his niece who she was also
in foster care, but she's amazing. She's currently
like in law school. And so she's, you know. involved
and that's nice and then my other two are my
oldest I have like a fake Facebook account and
so we message through there um and so I get pictures
of the little son that they have and you know
I send pictures of our oldest to them and give
updates of like kindergarten graduation and birthdays
and stuff like that and They're scary looking,
but they're very nice people. Yeah. You would
be scared, but they're, and their rap sheet makes
it sound like, you know, they're a certain type
of person, but they're nothing. They've been
only kind. Yeah. Yeah. And affirming of my role
as his mom, like, which is, again, wild. So,
yeah. And that would be really hard to do. I
don't know. For sure. So what was it like, okay,
so you have these kids that you're like. they're
not really mine but like they're in my home and
then you have this legal change like documents
are stamped and now they are your kids like what
was that transition like it was it was such a
god thing because it was all like justice being
adopted again i found i was pregnant for that
week um when roman got adopted i was three weeks
postpartum whoa and then six months later we
adopted mj so it all happened like my like I
have legal flowers which my last name children
was all within like a year and a half and it
was just like boom boom boom like they're all
mine so I like really stepped into my motherhood
in a completely different way being told how
to parent and going against your intuition as
a mom was my experience for so long it was like
you don't get to decide on You don't get to decide
on what daycare they go to. You don't even get
to decide if they get to go to daycare. You have
to drop them off at jail to do visits. You're
doing things that are just like, I don't get
to choose. And sometimes what I'm having to do
goes against every instinct in my body. I mean,
I remember being told by a visit worker, this
is traumatic for him. But we have to document
that it's traumatic for him for court. Wow. So
we're doing it to prove that it's traumatic.
And you're just dropping off your child to that,
you know? You didn't go throw up in the parking
lot after you said that. Right? Like, it was
so – so, again, going – when it became, like,
legal, like, I – like, God just gave me this,
like – I just really got to embrace being a real
mom. And although I was in some ways, I just
wasn't in other ways. And so – Yeah, we were
just talking to someone recently who they have
foster kids, and their son has long hair, and
he's like, we don't have permission to get it
cut. Yeah. Which is crazy. I mean, I guess it
kind of makes sense, but also it's insane. I
get both sides of it. So then all of a sudden,
like, oh, you can just get your kid's hair cut.
Yeah. You don't have to. Was there, like, a weird,
like. I don't even know how to put it. Feeling
like you couldn't do those things, even though,
like, you know, like, hey, I'm not getting in
trouble for taking him to the barber. Yeah. But,
like, it feels like you're going to. Right. No,
I think the first big thing was you had to document
every time they got hurt, which as toddlers,
like. It's constant. That's all the time. Yeah.
So every scratch, every bump on the head, like,
and oftentimes we'd have to go. to a doctor wow
to get it like checked off when I know they're
all the time for me Lloyd gets hurt all the time
and half the time I'm like what did you do I
was watching you how did you get hurt yes yes
I mean we've been under investigation for child
abuse because yeah it's so so there's that story
fun times uh -huh uh -huh so I think I think
there was like this like big sigh of relief yeah
And still, Caleb and I still will be like, thank
God they're not in foster care. They just got
this. I mean, it still is, like, my instinct
of, like, they just got hurt. Oh, my gosh, I
don't have to. Yes, yes, I don't have to take
them to the hospital. I don't have to tell anybody.
Like, it's just so scraped me. I already feel
like a bad mom because he fell off the playground
today. And now I'm going to have someone tell
me that too. Yes. And have to explain it to the
parents, which I get. That would be hard. Again,
if someone else had my kid, I would want all
that explanation. But then when you're the one
doing it, it makes it really, really difficult.
Totally. Yeah. So then what was it like bringing
bio kids into a family of foster and adopted
kids? You know, it was just the... I mean, I
think that's even more relevant now. Like, my
two, almost three -year -old still has no idea,
like, that his brothers are adopted. Like, that
doesn't make any sense to him. Yet we go visit,
like, like I said, like, we just got together
with the siblings of two of our kids. And he's
just like, yeah. These are our friends. He's
like, I'm just having a good time. Totally. Totally.
So I think it's actually going to be more of,
like, a thing as we go, like, explaining that
and even, like, having the boys tell their own
stories, how they want to to their siblings.
Like, I think it's going to be something we're
going to have to, like, learn as we go. It might
be different for each child. Totally. Yeah. Yeah.
Probably going to be tough, too, because most
of them don't really, they won't have a lot of
memory of foster care breaks. They're all so
young still. Yeah. I'm sure there's some memories,
especially with, like, that trauma and stuff.
Yeah. But, like, you really don't start. creating
memories so you're like three or four right that
like stay with you for your life totally so then
that's like kind of weird it's like well all
my information from this come from mom and dad
uh -huh and you know pile of papers that we have
papers and you know maybe in the future there's
like relationships with biological families and
that changes it or whatever yeah but yeah so
that is gonna be just a weird thing to navigate
yeah it'll be a forever thing i think that what's
like the thing about adopting is And especially,
you know, like, there's this sire of belief that
we don't have to, you know, ask permission to
go to Estes, you know, just dumb stuff like that.
Yeah. But then there's also this, like, we've
signed up for this forever. Like, we are seeing
biological family. We're pursuing that. We're
doing therapy still. Like, there's still this,
like, it's never over. We're still getting calls
for siblings. Like, you know, like, I don't think
we'll ever. feel completely removed from it which
it's my honor but yeah yeah that's a huge i mean
a huge like undertaking and probably do you feel
like you realized it was that like this it's
lifelong from the beginning i'd say no yeah i'd
say no um i think it's just been way more complicated
than i ever would have imagined i think man i
i tell my mom this all the time because she like
she's like did i do the right thing doing foster
care with you guys you know like and i'm like
mom i can't believe you did it like that being
a foster mom so much harder than being a kid
whose parents do foster care like I was so, I
thought I knew because my parents did it. It
is so much harder being a parent and holding
the weight of the stories and trying to like
make sure you're. As a sibling, you're not the
one writing down when they get a scraped knee.
Totally, totally. And so it's still, it's so
hard. Yeah. So what has been just like your absolute
favorite or the best part about being a foster
mom? There's a lot. I think the story of my first
kiddo holds a lot of brokenness. But also, you
know, I got to baptize his mom. Wow. Yeah. Do
you still have a relationship with them? Yes
and no. She's hard to get a hold of. Gotcha.
For certain reasons. And so I, and there's been
times where I've tried to, like, we've talked
and it's just been, it's just hard. Yeah. People
with addiction, it's just hard. So. And you also
have five kids. Yeah. And it is like, you know,
he, you know, that kiddo is with a foster family
is going to adopt him. Like that's their family
now, but you know, that's, that's its own whole
thing. And so I love that bio mom. Like I think
that story of that first experience of loving
him and letting him go and how much I fought
for his family to stay together. was so impactful
like probably one of the most impactful parts
like obviously adopting my kiddos is you know
so special but but that's like the happy ending
impactful we're like yes this one did not yeah
to not have the like hallmark movie ending yeah
that is it yeah just has a different level of
impact totally and it felt like it did like they
got reunified it was like two months later that
i baptized the mom like i was like Oh, I should
write a book. I've done it. We've done it. Totally.
Totally. I was like, we are the poster people
for this beautiful reunification story. And then
it has been almost seven years of chaos. Seven
years. I remember when you guys first got in.
Yes. It hasn't been that long. I know. It's wild.
What the heck? Yeah. You talked about it a little
bit, but what would you say is the hardest part
about being specifically a foster mom? Specifically
a foster mom. Holding the weight of both and,
right? Like I love this child and I have to like
root for the parents. I can root for the parents
while also advocating for my child to be safe.
Like it is just this constant like. the priority
is safety, but I'm also trying to support these
parents. Like ultimately I want you to like get
it together so that you can be a family and your
kid can be safe. But also sometimes I have to
like fight against certain things. Yeah. But
if that's continuously not happening, then kiddo
safety is number one priority. Totally. So it's,
it's just this constant and also just like the
rollercoaster of like, you never know. You never
know. Like, I mean, we, our oldest, the dad wasn't
involved for a year and a half. And then he got
out of jail and it was like, we're starting the
case over. Wow. And I remember like every time
we did like a icebreaker, which is where you
meet the parents, I always was like, we are here
for you. We're on your team. Like, you know,
we, we hope you get your child back. Like that's,
you know, what we're here for. But I remember
meeting him, and I had had his son for a long
time at this point, and I, like, couldn't say
it. Like, I couldn't get myself to say it. And
I was just so quiet. I killed afterwards because
I'm usually the one to, like, you know, chat
it up with the parents. He was like, you. So
I was like, I couldn't do it. And not that he
didn't deserve it, but I was just like, it was
just. like heartbreaking yes yeah and there's
getting past any preconceived notions you may
have right like totally you hear someone's getting
out of jail no matter like what the reason what
the reason you know you know it's like they could
have been wrongfully convicted you know whatever
it is totally like you just like you hear those
words and you have the story in your head yes
you're like well you don't deserve you know even
if you never say that out loud there's this level
like well you were in jail so you don't deserve
it i've had all the bad thoughts like of course
i have like i'm you know It's, it's constant.
Like, how do I keep myself in check of like,
and, and who's the safe person that I can tell
these like negative, you know, like thoughts
that I should not ever say to the kids or whatever.
So that way I can like, you know. Just process
through it. Totally. Yeah. I'm human. I've thought
the things. Yeah. Yeah. It would be, it's impossible
not to. Yeah. Yeah. What would you tell someone
who's considering fostering? Two things. Make
sure you have a therapist now because you're
going to want to have a therapist. And once you're
in the thick of things, it's so hard to find
somebody. Like you're already doing seven visits
and they're going to therapy. And like you have
court and it's too much to like find someone
that you trust. So find someone now. And then
two, make sure you have a good support system.
I mean, churches have wrapped around us. Caleb
and I both live by family. We've had people clean
our house. We've had people bring us meals once
a week. Like we've had, I mean, even like my
first kiddo, like him going to another foster
family, it was because someone in my group like
stepped up for him, right? Like there's just
been, it's just, it's so important to have people
who are doing this with you. You cannot do it
by yourself. Then going off that, what would
you tell the support system of someone who is
either considering or already in foster care?
My gosh, please help them. Yeah. Please help
them. It's so hard. It's like, it's emotionally
taxing. It's time consuming. You're dealing with
trauma and behaviors. You're, I mean, I genuinely
think that foster parents should be viewed as
missionaries in states. support yeah and it's
not sending money as much as it is like literally
just like if the nights where we had visits but
someone was bringing a meal changed the evening
you know so i think we talked about it in our
postpartum episode about like how we wanted support
in that season and i feel like it's similar of
like we don't want people to text us and be like
You know, let me know how I can help you. Yeah.
Yeah. I think it's more helpful to be like, hey,
I'm going to send you coffee tomorrow morning.
And I don't like, no is not even an answer. What
is your order? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like the specificity.
Like what day this week can I bring you dinner?
Not can I bring you dinner? Yeah. Yeah. Definitely.
I cannot even imagine like. Your story is so
complex, and we're going to get more into that
in our next episode. But I just, yeah, I look
at your guys' story, the little that I know of
it, and I just, like, I cannot even imagine the
emotional side of it, like, the mental capacity
it takes, like, I mean, the love that you guys
spread. And just, I mean, these kids are so lucky
to have you guys. And to have that calling on
your life, it's a huge calling. And I hope you
guys don't take that lightly. Thank you. Yeah.
It's genuinely like the kids and the families,
like as hard as it's been, like they have changed
me, you know? And so in the best ways. And the
Lord just like reveals himself in such a profound
way. when you're in the middle of such brokenness
like that is where god is you know so yeah yeah
thank you for sharing yeah that side of your
story and um i know we're gonna get more into
it and there's more yeah yeah do you have any
like last thoughts specific to like your foster
experience or just like what you'd share again
someone else going through someone considering
going through it oh man if you're a foster parent
listening to this like man just putting myself
back into like the trenches like the hardest
hardest parts like I know how scary it all feels
like it feels so scary all the time like there
have there have been times where I couldn't sleep
I just cry like because it was like it was just
so scary and you feel so out of control and that
is just such a horrible place to be in as a parent
like I mean this in the least cheesy way but
like that is God's kid. Like he, and someone
said this to me recently about this new sibling.
Cause I was like, I don't have control of where
this baby's going to go. And like, and someone
was like, that's God's kid. Like he's got that
child, like far beyond the control that I could
bring to that situation. Like the Lord has is,
is the best father, you know? So. Yeah. Yeah.
That's not cheesy. How can I say this? I can't
imagine like the lack of control. You probably
from a, you know, a day of like, okay, this child
is going to be with us forever. And then it can
flip within, you know, an hour the next day.
Like, I can't imagine like that kind of like
just thought lingering in my brain at all times.
You guys were in the trenches and I can't imagine.
Yeah. Yeah. But thanks for sharing. Yeah. Thanks
for listening. Of course. Yeah. All right. Well,
thank you guys for tuning in to Ellie's episode
all about fostering and adopting. And let's go
ahead and just hop into our wins for the week.
Do you want to share yours, Erica? Yeah. So I
know I've shared a little bit that Zeta is just
like our tiny little peanut. And that means that.
The recommendation has been I wake her up at
night to feed her. So even though she's six months,
we've still been getting up every three to four
hours at night. Even if she's sleeping, I still
get to wake her up. And she had her six -month
appointment, and now the recommendation is five
to six hours. Of course, the first three days
after that, she was like, every two hours? Is
that what I heard? But we've finally gotten a
couple nights where I've gotten a five -hour
stretch of sleep. That's a game changer. It's
one of those things where you're like, oh, wow.
I'm like a new person. I'm in a good mood. What
is this? This is what sleep is like. I forgot.
Like, amazing. So that's just a moment. That's
a huge win. That extra hour is a game changer
for sure. Sure, sure. Okay, my win. So Cruz is,
he's almost five months, and he's like had like
his giggle for a little bit, but. Just recently,
like I tickled him one day and he had the biggest
belly laugh. And it just, oh my gosh, that's
the best sound in the world when they just laugh
so like genuinely. And his laugh is like, it's
a lot deeper than like. Colts is and was as a
baby and so it's just like it makes me laugh
too because it's like kind of raspy and kind
of like deep and I love it so much so that's
my win is just his belly laugh so cute and sweet
yeah love a baby laugh yeah what about yours
Ellie since we're talking about foster care um
so as we know recently a sibling has been born
and I was just like so stressed about it And
I had told the boys about baby born, whatever.
And my five -year -old that night, we were doing
our nighttime prayers. And it was the most simple
thing, but he thanked God for his new baby brother.
And I was like, I cannot believe I haven't done
that yet. Like, I think, and people say this
to me often, like, why can't the mom get her
tubes tied? Like, this thought, and I get it.
I get it in some ways, but I'm also like, God,
let that baby be born. Why should any of us think
that we have a better idea for God who God allows
to live? And it was convicting for me too because
I was like, I can't believe there's another baby.
Now I have to think about how we're going to
implement this baby in our lives. Should we take
the baby? Whatever. And just his sweet little
like, thank you, God, for my new baby brother.
And I was like. Yeah. Thank you, God. Like, thank
you for his life. And so super convicting. So
sweet. Our kids, you know, our kids just have
the best arts. I love seeing what our kids say
thank you for. Yeah. Because we do that at night.
So we're like, okay, what are you thankful for?
And it's just like so sweet because you have
the things. So pure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's the
most random things and the sweetest things too.
Yes. Yeah. Gosh. Well, thank you, Ellie. Again,
just thank you for sharing your story. I know
that it's still a journey and it's still hard
and fun and all the things. But thank you for
sharing. Thanks for tuning in, guys. Rate, review,
subscribe. Follow us on Instagram at nomanualpodcast.
And we will see you next week. See you next week.