Welcome back to No Manual, a momcast where we're
just talking about the reality of motherhood,
the funny parts, the not so funny parts. We both
came in today exhausted because of how our night
and day and week has gone. So that's just, you
know, one of our realities. And if you can't
hear already. Cruz is joining us and has lots
to say today. So he'll be, you know, sharing
his opinion. Yes. Today, we're gonna do something
a little bit different. And we were joking, we're
like, maybe this will be a disaster. And we know
this is not for us. But we both read a book together.
And so we're kind of gonna not really review,
but just talk about it almost book club style
of some of the things that we liked from it.
Maybe some things that we're like, yeah, this
didn't really, you know, hit the way that I Felt
like it should or whatever. Maybe talk about
some questions, stuff like that. But so the book
we're talking about is called Remaining You While
Raising Them by Allie Worthington. So it's just
her little like blurb, I guess, is the secret
art of confident motherhood. So, yeah, so we'll
get into that in a second. Do you want to start
with your mom moment of the week? I would love
to. So my mom moment is from last night. And
I think. One thing that I've tried to accept
over time is just being more flexible with mess.
I don't consider myself a messy person. I try
to be fairly clean, especially in my house. And
when it comes to a toddler, obviously they don't
really have that in mind. And so Colt's new thing
right now is every meal. it turns into like a
tornado somehow. And I'm like, I'm trying to
be flexible with like just letting him explore
foods and like textures and like putting things
together and like cutting them up and mushing
them and putting them in his cup. And last night,
so last night we had leftover pizza. He had applesauce.
He finished the applesauce really quick. He wanted
a little bit of a banana. So I let him have a
banana and then baby carrots, which like, first
of all a win for me was he ate two baby carrots
which he like hates vegetables we love it dipped
in ranch great you gotta have the ranch yeah
um i mean i don't want carrots not dipped in
something either so i i get you no and his new
thing since his birthday party is like having
an open cup of rather than a sippy cup. He does
not want to drink it out of a sippy cup. He's
two now. Yeah, he's two. He's very independent.
And so I, like, have been letting him have an
open cup of water mostly because he's just, like,
he's exploring. The first time I let him do that,
he dumped it all over himself. Naturally. Yeah.
Last night, he, like, used it as, like, a way
to soak his pizza. And so he put his pizza in
it. And then mushed the banana in it, and then
he dumped that onto his high chair and then,
like, played in it, like finger painting. Delicious.
It was so good. And another great part was that
Michael wasn't home, so it was just me and Cruz.
And the thing is, stuff like that, when you have,
like... your spouse there or someone else with
you like it's annoying yes because you're like
I don't have to clean this up but it's like kind
of funnier yes when you're by yourself it's just
it's just frustrating because I'm like I have
to clean this up I have to clean you up I have
to somehow manage like holding my baby at the
same time like it's just a whole mess but I kept
my cool. I was proud of myself. I was like, oh,
buddy, it looks like you're having fun. And we
had time before bedtime, so I was like, I'm just
going to let him do his thing, and we'll take
a shower, and it's fine. And it was fine, but
it was probably the messiest meal I've cleaned
up since he's been eating solids. Good job. Yeah,
even in comparison to when he was first starting
solids. And that's a mess in itself. That's a
messy time, yeah. But this one was. I mean, it
was on the floors, on the side of the high chair,
on top of the high chair, on him. But he had
fun. He had a great time. I didn't lose my cool.
You know, we made it. So that's my mom moment.
What's yours? That's almost a win. Yeah, honestly.
I should have saved it. Mine is also related
to eating. So Zeta started solids, which means
she's in the high chair now. And we got like
a booster seat for Lloyd at the table. That doesn't
really have a seat belt. It certainly doesn't
have one that like keeps him in. And obviously
he's two. He does not have impulse control yet.
So we're working on like, no, we stay at the
table during meals. We don't like run around
and come back, run around and come back. That's
not what we're doing. So that's one thing we're
working on. And the other day. It was just me.
It must have been, like, breakfast or something.
And Zeta was ready for a nap, and Lloyd was still
finishing up whatever meal it was. And so I was
like, okay, buddy, I'm going to go put Zeta down
for a nap. You finish breakfast. And, like, I
know he's not going to, like, stay in his chair.
For sure. You know, again, I get it. Like, I
expect him to be up here in two minutes. Yeah.
So I, like, go upstairs. And I can hear from
downstairs, it's actually the trash truck toy
you guys got him for his birthday. I can like
hear that going while I'm in the nursery. So
I'm like, okay, again, I don't, you know, I didn't
expect him to actually stay. But then I like
get stated down and I come back downstairs and
he's sitting at the table, like acting like he
never moved. I've been here the whole time. I
know, like, and I know you don't understand that
I know that you moved, but it was really funny
that he clearly understands what he's supposed
to do and, like, certain amounts of, like, how
to get away with it. Yeah. You know, because,
like, if I didn't hear, I would never have known
that, like, he got up and moved around. And you'd
be like, oh, my gosh, buddy. Good job, buddy.
You did it. That's so funny. Yeah, it was super
funny and super cute. That's amazing. I feel
like, have you seen those videos of, like, um
when people put their kid in front of like two
jelly beans or whatever and they're like i'm
gonna go to the bathroom real quick don't eat
the jelly beans like i'll be right back and they
like record them i want to do that so bad but
i'm like i don't know if colt is quite there
yet to be able to do that maybe in like a year
but i want to yeah it's pretty they're pretty
young right now like that part of the impulse
control just like has not that function isn't
turned on yet no so funny Well, let's get jumped
into this. Yeah, we don't really totally know
how we're going to approach it. Like you said,
I think we're going to kind of approach this
book club style and just talk about some of our
takeaways. Yep. Do you have anything you want
to start with? Yeah. Okay. So, yeah, I feel like
we should just talk about kind of some different
like main takeaways that are from the book. First
of all, I feel like a big thing that like...
overall the title so remaining you while raising
them I feel like honestly like a better title
this is gonna sound critical would be like finding
the best version of you well yeah while raising
them because I don't know I'm like remaining
you that means like staying the same staying
the same as you were yeah but you don't like
I don't I want to improve yeah I mean I think
like it's kind of impossible to like stay who
you were before being a mom yeah once you're
a mom like yeah maybe that's untrue but i don't
think it is yeah like priorities change and you
know so even not priorities just how you view
the world and all that changes yeah um yeah you're
I mean we've talked about it before just being
like it is an entire life shift so like remaining
you like you're no matter how much you try you're
not going to be the person you were before you
had kids for sure you can't be yeah to be honest
like you find a new you I guess like I think
a big takeaway for me from the book is like really
just you need to find your worth I guess. And
like find your worth in God and find, or like
come to the realization that you are worthy outside
of just being a mother. Like you're so much more
than that. And you are someone outside of being
a mom, which I know, I don't know if we've talked
about this. I have a friend that her and I talked
about this a while ago where I was like, I totally
understand the moms who like become empty nesters
and are. And they almost like stay attached to
their kids in an unhealthy way after that because
it is so easy to just like lose yourself in motherhood.
Yeah. I mean, I think this is something that
like I had wrote down as a note for like way
later in the book, but that's okay. Because at
one point she's talking about marriage and how
it's really easy to sacrifice your marriage to
the altar of motherhood. Yeah. And it's also
easy to sacrifice yourself to the altar of motherhood.
Yeah. Which is like super true. And I think one
of the things I've noticed for me and. I think
she brings up in the book maybe this is just
something that I like kind of took from it is
one of the reasons that's so easy is because
immediate needs need to be met right where it's
like we were talking last night was when we were
recording this last night was a rough night in
our house yeah but like my baby needs to eat
so like it doesn't matter how groggy I am like
that immediate need outweighs the fact that for
her needing to eat outweighs the fact that I'm
tired yeah And I think that can expand quite
a bit, right? Where it's, like, okay, like, my
husband and I need time alone. But sometimes
that just, like, doesn't happen because these
immediate needs for your kids. Or, like, you
need to, like, be super intentional about scheduling
time for that to happen. Like, we have a babysitter.
Yeah. We're not going to be interrupted. Which,
like, I think that point, like, to that point,
it comes in waves. It comes in seasons. And I
think that, like... As long as there's intentionality,
like those seasons, it's going to be a season.
It's not going to be a forever. Yeah. And I think
if you're, like you said, if you're paying attention
to that, like, okay, newborn phase, like we're
going to have a rough few months. Yeah. Let's
be gracious with each other. But then once that
few months is over and things start to adjust,
like, oh, she's sleeping in her own crib or her
bassinet and we have. 20 minutes to ourselves
instead of 30 seconds yeah um like take advantage
of that yeah i feel like one of the big big takes
takeaways for me um as well is all about self
-care um which kind of goes along with like sacrifice
and i think a big overall like push for this
book is like prioritizing yourself um so that
you can show up and be the best mother right
And that's, like, that's actually the best thing
for your kids is, like, if you prioritize yourself,
then you can be, like, show up and be the best
mom for your kids. When I think, I mean, it's
the classic example of, like, you're on an airplane,
like, put your oxygen mask on before your kids
or whatever. I think one of the reasons it's
super easy to ignore that is you see that in
extremes, right? So it's like when you see someone
who has an extreme, a mom who has an extreme
mental health issue, whether it's like true bipolar
or extreme depression or something like that
and how it affects their kids like you're like
obviously like she should be taking care of herself
but then if you're like the rest of us we're
like well i don't have like an extreme condition
i just have like normal day -to -day anxieties
or whatever i don't need to do that yeah you
know it's like i'm okay i'm like i don't need
to do those steps to like prioritize my mental
health because like i'm fine i'm you know i'm
quote unquote normal and so then it's like I
can get to it next week or whatever. Yeah. Yeah.
But then that builds and... Yeah. I feel like
for me, like, was this... This part specifically
was actually kind of convicting for me because
I feel like, I don't know, we... Michael and
I have a pretty busy, like our weeks are fairly
busy. And we've talked about we don't have family
around. So it's just we're raising the kids together.
We don't have a lot of outside hands helping
us. And so honestly, like, yeah, self -care and
like especially mental health, like it sadly
has been kind of put on the back burner. And
so this part was really convicting to me because
I'm like. Okay, yeah, I do, like, I do need to
take steps to prioritize myself. But, like, in
this season of life, I really don't know how
I am going to fit that in. Like, what does that
look like? I don't know. I feel that way, too.
And we even, we have family close by, but even
with that, it's like, for us, a basic week. Stuart
plays at church Sunday morning, so he's gone
most of the morning. We obviously go to church
and see him. And then... At least one Sunday
a month we have plans with family. So Sundays
are usually pretty busy. Mondays, as soon as
Stuart, we both work, as soon as Stuart gets
home, we drop the kids off with my parents to
go to the gym. We get home and pretty much go
to bed, eat dinner, go to bed. Yep. Tuesdays
and Wednesdays are kind of our flex days of like
something happens. But then it's like. We have
to go to Costco this week. Yeah. And somehow
Costco, even though it's like three minutes away
from our house, takes the entire night. Yes.
And then we get home and we're like, okay, time
for bed. Yes. And then Thursday, Stuart's usually
gone. Bless you. Fridays are another flex day
and Saturdays are another flex day. So like,
I guess we do have time, but then we, it feels
like our time is so limited, like as a family.
Yes. And with each other and with our kids that.
then you're like, when am I going to fit this
in? And as soon as you add another thing to the
week, then you're like, this is too much. Yeah,
I feel that. And part of me argues like self
-care to me is like that family time. Like that
family time fills me up so much. Like when we're
all playing together and we're laughing and having
a good time, that to me has really helped just
my mental health. But I do thrive from that,
like, little bit of alone time if I can get it.
If I can go and get my nails done or, I don't
know. Do you ever feel, like, guilt with that
too? Because, like, so for me, again, and you
guys are in the same position where both Stuart
and I are work. So then for me, I'm like, Stuart
deserves a break too. Yeah. And so if he's watching
the kids while I go get my nails done or go read
for an hour or whatever, it almost feels like,
oh, but you're getting less of a break than I
am. I'm getting more of a break than you are,
and you deserve this, but then when is the time
for you to get this break? Do you feel that way
too? Yes. Oh, 100%. I feel like part of me is
like because Michael works outside of the home
and I'm with the kids the majority of the time.
Part of me is like, oh no, like now you're on
and I get a break when you get home from work.
But like, I'm like, the reality is he's been
working all day too, just in a different capacity.
And so like, doesn't he deserve a break too?
I don't know. It's such a like, it's such a back
and forth thing in my mind. And I think we both
deserve breaks for sure. But I do feel guilty.
Whenever I'm like, when I run to Target on my
own or out and run errands, I'm like, oh, I left
him with the kids. I don't think it's a, I shouldn't
feel guilty, but it just is there. He's also
a parent and is perfectly capable of taking care
of the kids. Yeah, even like this morning, Stuart
has both the kids so we can record. Should I
have let him just take Lloyd? No, he'll be fine.
Yeah. But there's just like that guilt of. Yeah.
Of like, oh, you're doing something that you
enjoy. Yeah. Like without the kids for a few
hours. But yeah, feeling like you should have
one of them with you. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So
one of the things that she brings up is just
like mental health needs. And I wrote down all
the ones that she. Brings up, which is sleep,
water, movement, quiet, friends, and breath work.
Do you feel like one of those comes most naturally
to you? Or are those any of those that you, like,
haven't thought of before? I think the breath
work one was, like, I, because you usually hear,
like, oh, to stay healthy, like, you need to
be mentally, spiritually, emotionally, physically
healthy. I think the breath work goes along with,
like, the physical and, like. The mental, like,
all of it, honestly. But I never really, like,
put that into, like, a top. Yeah. Yeah, like,
one of the topics of, like, how that can help
your mental health. Yeah, and I've heard of breathwork
before, but I've, like, never tried. I think
there's been, like, times in my life I've tried
it, but not, like, on a regular basis or whatever.
It's like, oh, I'm having a panic attack. I know
I'm supposed to do this. You know, it's not,
like, regularly, like, I should do this as a
practice or whatever. Yep. Yeah. Have you ever
heard of... I forget what it's called exactly,
but it's like square breathing or something.
I've dealt with anxiety a good amount, especially
more as I've become a mother. But that is something
like if Michael can tell that I'm anxious, he'll
like tell me to do that type of breathing. And
it really, I mean, it really does help. It really
does help in the moment. But I've never, yeah,
I've never added it as like a normal routine
in my life. And I can see how it could be beneficial.
Yeah. Yeah. But, yeah, do you think there's one
that comes easiest to you or one that comes hardest
to you or both? Movement, for sure, is the hardest
one for me. I think we're starting to get into,
like, a good routine of, like, going on walks.
And I do love that. But I think, I mean, I haven't,
the reality, I haven't really worked out. just
myself like by myself and i don't even know how
long yeah to be honest yeah it's tough for sure
yeah we're pretty good at going on walks and
stuff but then again it's like when do you have
time to working out i know when you have time
to do it you can't like The times that you have
available to do stuff you can't necessarily do
right. It's like everyone's down for a nap or
after bedtime unless someone's in the house with
them. It's not like you can like go to the gym
or go on a walk outside by yourself or, you know,
something like that. So I think that makes it
really tough. Yeah. How about you? Was it the
same for you or? I think it's probably a mix
between that and friends, honestly. Yeah. I know
so many other moms and like I have plenty of
mom friends, but like actually intentionally
spending. time with people i think is yeah probably
one of the toughest ones yes oh i completely
agree i think i have a good amount of mom friends
but setting up like the play dates or i don't
know even going and getting coffee it just seems
like a lot of work and i know it should be our
priority but it seems like a lot of work especially
when like i do have a day off or downtime it's
like yeah i want to hang out with friends but
like I don't know. It seems hard. Yeah. And there's
like, I want to hang out with friends. Again,
I also want to spend time with my family when
I'm not preoccupied. I also would like to have
an hour of quiet to read my book or, you know,
I want to take a nap. Yes. Yeah. It's like sacrificing
those other things to prioritize that, which
is a healthy thing. She brought up, and this
is one of those things that I'd never thought
of. And I really like this idea, but I don't
even know how I'd, like, make it work, honestly,
is doing, like, your day -to -day things with
your friends, which I realized is, like, oh,
that's probably part of the reason, like, as
a kid, it's way easier to have friends. I mean,
obviously, you have less responsibility, but
it's stuff like you do homework with your friends.
Yeah. You're at school all day with your friends.
You're at school all day with your friends. You're,
like, the things you do in normal. just, like,
align with your friends. Whereas, like, when
you're a mom, especially if you're working from
home or a stay -at -home mom, that isn't necessarily
the case. So she brought up, like, going grocery
shopping or something together, which I like
the idea, but then for me, I'm like, I don't
even know how I'd, like, call someone and be
like, do you want to go to Costco together? Yeah.
I mean, I'm sure none of my friends would be
like... she's being weird but for me it's like
it feels like it would be weird yeah and then
oh no one wants to do that right and then I'm
like I would also overthink of like what if this
isn't the day they go to Costco or what if you
know like like am I putting an inconvenience
on them by asking them to help convenience me
right yeah yeah yeah I feel that I like this
um this it's not a direct quote from the from
the book but just kind of like an overarching
quote, that we've been taught that a good mom
always puts her family first. What if the best
gift we can give our kids is a mom who's rested,
hydrated, and emotionally healthy? And I'm like,
oh, amen. Yeah. Yeah. And that's so true. I think
that is kind of near where she was talking about
how a perfect mom would mess up their kids. Yeah.
Which that was like so poignant to me and so
helpful because I was like, oh, yeah. Like you
even hear people talk about like, oh, my mom
seemed perfect, which like we know perfect people
don't exist. So it's like if your mom seems perfect,
that's not even true. But like how much that
messed them up. And that was like so helpful
to me to be like, oh, yeah, it's not about being
a perfect mom. Yep. It's more about how I respond
to my imperfections and showing my kids, hey,
you can be a good person and make mistakes. It's
how you address your mistakes. So it's like when
you get angry, not if you get angry, when you
get angry and you should handle it this way.
If you don't, like I don't sometimes, like I
lose it because it's been a day and I should
have handled something calmer. And you're tired.
I've heard I go potty for the thousandth time
and he hasn't gone. You know, yeah, when we like
respond to anger in a way that we shouldn't,
how we then respond to that is like way more
important than not getting angry or being perfect
to begin with because that's going to mess up
our kids and they need to know like, yeah, it's
okay to be imperfect more or less. You know,
you are imperfect. Yeah. That's just a fact.
Yeah. And you're never going to hit this level
of perfection. Your mom isn't perfect. Your dad
isn't perfect. All these people in your life,
they're not perfect. But how do we respond? How
do we handle our imperfection? Like, oh, I messed
up there. I should apologize. Yeah, I think that's
one thing that like apologizing is one thing
that I'm trying to do better at as like my toddler
is getting older. It's like, oh, when I mess
up, I need to apologize to him. Yeah. Because
it's like. I'm a role model for him, and he's
watching my every move and learning from me whether
I know it or not. Yeah. And apologizing is one
of the, I don't know, it's a very selfless thing
to do, you know? Well, because you have to admit
that. you messed up. Yeah. Which no one likes
to do that. Even when you like are consciously
like, I should not have responded in that way.
Saying it out loud. Yeah. Is, is the tough part
for sure. Yeah. Yeah. I've been trying to do
that with Lloyd too. Like. Yeah. I shouldn't
have yelled at you. I'm so sorry, buddy. Like.
Which I think is a totally new thing for this
generation. It is. Of parents. Like, I don't
think that parents in the past have really like.
It's definitely not been the standard. No, it
has not been the standard. Or expectation in
parenting. Yeah. Yeah, but I think one of the
reasons it is important is we're the first relationship
that they really have with anyone, right? So
we want them to see, like, you deserve apologies,
you know, when someone hurts you. But also, like,
it's okay to admit, like, hey, I messed up instead
of covering it up or ignoring it. And again,
it's not easy. Yep. Yeah. But it's part of a
relationship. Yeah. I want to chat about this
term of differentiation. Do you remember reading
about that? Like pretty much like being a separate
being as a mother, like we often get so, so enmeshed
in. like parenthood that we're like we are one
or attached with our kids and this kind of goes
along with this the side of like finding ourselves
outside of being a mother but like finding differentiation
between um our kids and ourselves so i like this
quote from the book it said a lack of differentiation
could be why we believe the myth that our kids
behavior is our fault yes i didn't pick that
quote but uh i definitely i have like a whole
section about uh yeah just like that concept
of like i really liked how she said not everything
our kids do is a reflection of us yeah which
again i think is a really new concept in parenting
we're so like old school parenting is like if
my kid messes up that's a reflection on me And
obviously like there's a level of that that is
true, which I think is one of the hard parts,
right? Where it's like you can see the kids who
have bad parents. Yeah. And I mean, that is a
judgmental thing to say. But yeah, like you can
see the kids who's like their parents don't care.
Or like as an adult, you can see the adults who's
like parents parented them in a certain way versus
another whatever. Yeah. Yeah. I think growing
up for our generation less so than like even
going back generations. The concept has been
like what my kids do is a direct representation
of who I am. Not how I parented. I think that
maybe is the difference. Yeah. Not how I parented,
but who I am as a person. And that's not true.
Like our kids are going to mess up because they're
also human. Yeah. And. Like no matter what we
do. Yeah, we could have done everything. Perfect.
Perfect. Again, that's going to mess them up
anyways. Yeah. But even if it's like you have
all the scientific studies and you followed all
the steps of like, I did the right amount of
screen time and not the right amount or in the,
I introduced foods in this way. And, you know,
I helped them the right amount with homework
and I didn't do this and I did do that. And like,
even if you had all of those things and you.
parented in the exact way that like scientifically
spiritually all the things checked every single
box our kids are still human yeah and they're
still gonna make stupid decisions and decisions
that make us mad and that affect other people
because they're little humans and yeah and they're
learning and they're learning and i think that
like a big uh theme of all of that is like releasing
control yeah and so i liked in the book it uh
it says like, ask yourselves, ask yourself these
questions. And in a moment of maybe feeling frustrated
or feeling like you don't have that like differentiation,
it's what can I control? And so asking these
three questions, what do I have no control over?
What do I have influence over? And what do I
have control over? I feel like, like she gives
the example like, oh, she has no control over
the weather. Like that is something like, yeah,
it's gonna, Sucks sometimes and not be what you
want it to be. Like you have zero control over
that. We plan to go to the zoo. It's pouring
rain. Yeah. Can't control that. Then she says,
I also can't control my family's response to
the weather. So like if it's raining or this
talks about a tornado warning. If they're responding
in a like, oh, this sucks. Like this is scary
sort of way. Like she has no control over that.
But she can influence her family how to react.
to the tornado warning. So yeah, she can influence
them by telling them where to go in the house.
So I think of this as like, okay, like my child's
not doing something that he should be doing.
Like where can I gain control? Like what do I
actually have influence over in this situation?
And I think the term influence is super helpful
because it reminds you like they still may not
listen to you. right you know and like an overarching
thing of like I'm gonna try to influence you
to make the right decisions but it's still like
I can't force you to make the right decisions
you know it's just trying to prompt you in a
certain way yeah I also liked when she said you
won't and can't teach your kid everything by
18 which I feel like is such a relief and then
as I was reading that and thinking about just
like my own life and how many times I've like
called my parents for advice and like or talk
to other adults, but like specifically when it
comes to parenting, like I know there was a period
of time where I was having like a really rough
time at work with like a specific decision that
was being made to the point where I was like,
do I quit? Do I like, how do I respond to my
boss? Because this is like of how this has affected
me. Do I push back? Like it was one of those
things where I was like, do I have legal repercussions
here? So I like talked to my dad and I had lunch
multiple times to be like. okay, what do I do
here? Like, what's the wisest decision? Again,
do I just quit? Is that the right move? Do I,
like, send me, like, hey, like, you legally can't
do this because it was, like, kind of a legal
criteria. Yeah, yeah. And, like, it worked out,
but it's, like, that specific scenario or, you
know, the amount of times I've, like, called
my mom and be, like, how do you hard -boiled
eggs again? Yes. I can never remember. Is it
10 minutes? Is it seven minutes? Yeah, yes. So,
yeah, and just, like, I still call my parents
for advice. Not advice on every single little
thing in my life, but there are things that I
still am like, hey, I know that you'd be a person
to talk to. And so I think for this and for me
parenting my kids, I go, okay, I want them to
still be able to reach out to me. So I don't
have to teach them everything by 18, but I want
to make sure we have a relationship. So that
by the time they are 18 and they are leaving
the house, they want to call me when they forget
how to hard boil eggs or when they're going through
a breakup or when something is tough that, you
know, they're trying to navigate something. So
I want to still be there for them and help teach
them these things. I'll be in a different capacity
in a different way than I would when they're
2 or 12 or 15 or whatever. But yeah, it was,
so I think there is this pressure of like, your
kids are going to turn 18. Yeah. And you better
have it all. They're going to be out in the real
world and you better know what they're doing.
And it's like, none of us knew what we were doing
at 18. And you can't, your brain literally isn't
fully developed at 18. So you're not going to,
again, even if you did every single thing right
as a parent, they're just not going to know everything.
And they're still going to have to like go make
some mistakes. And, you know, there are some
things that no matter how many times people tell
you. You just have to do it yourself to realize
like, oh, that was not a wise choice. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. I saw this reel. It kind of goes along
with this of you know your kids longer as adults
than you do as kids. And I'm like, knife to the
heart. Yeah. It hurts me so much. She brought
up the marble jar. Yeah. Yeah. So for anyone
who hasn't heard the marble jar. analogy I guess
is like you I don't remember the number but you
put a certain amount of number of marbles into
a jar and that's like how many weeks you have
left with your kid before they turn 18 don't
like that and you're supposed to like take one
out every week or whatever so we hate it is that
one because the authors who's like it I did that
and it gave me like such dread and like I just
felt like I was a terrible mother yeah because
of this because I would just like take it out
every week and be like oh well that's another
week wasted or whatever that's how it felt yeah
it's like you only have 18 summers with your
kids like that that thing and I'm like oh yeah
I yeah yeah I think it's one of those things
like I get it in concept like and then I think
it depends on like how you view it too of like
if you view it as like this positive thing of
like look how many i have versus look how fast
it's going away yes yeah i don't i don't think
i like it no i my family growing up we'd always
do the like the paper rings to like count down
when santa was gonna be here so like how many
days until christmas and that was always such
a like rewarding thing yeah like cutting those
off every day whenever it's like the take the
marbles away i'm like Yeah, because like you're
counting down to something good versus counting
down to something really bittersweet. It's like
I can see the concept of it of like, oh, you
look at it and you're like, oh, man, I only have
this amount of time to like make the most of
their childhood and make the most of like my
time with them. But then when you have like a
bad week, you're like, well, I guess I'm not
making the most of it because. We all cried every
single day this week and yeah. Yes. Like I just
ruined their childhood and then you spiral and.
Yeah. This is what they're going to be talking
about in therapy. I feel that. Yes. Yes. Okay.
I've also really liked. Let me pull up. Yeah.
This quote too. Going back to like the differentiation
and like being a separate person from your. Children,
failure to differentiate can result in emotional
enmeshment. Enmeshment means we are overly connected
to another person's needs so badly we lose touch
with our own needs, goals, desires, and feelings.
And I just thought that was so good because I'm
like, I don't know. I feel like I'm in this right
now where I'm like, I'm at that point where like.
I do need to prioritize my own needs, goals,
desires, and feelings. And again, that's one
of those things that's really hard seasonally
because you read this when you have a newborn
and you're like. Well, yeah. Well, obviously,
because that's how it's supposed to be with a
newborn. Like your newborn doesn't know they're
not their own person yet or they are their own
person yet. Yep. That you're not attached anymore.
It's like first few months, like that is kind
of how it's supposed to be. But then when we
stick with that for years and years, that's when
it becomes like really messed up and super unhealthy
and how you lose yourself. And yeah. Yeah. Do
you feel like that's something that you can try
to gain control over from the beginning? Or is
it kind of like a... lost cause at the beginning
of like i mean i think it probably depends on
a few things yeah like again what kind of support
system you have and like if you can do like little
things like leave and get a pedicure for you
know an hour while you have a newborn or something
like that um but then there's so many things
also outside of your control right like zeta
is six months and she just now started taking
a bottle so i'm like so for the first six months
i literally couldn't be away from her for more
than like two three hour stops and that's like
door to door yeah so right so there's all these
like variables that I think make it really tough
to like really implement that from the beginning
it's like Lloyd that wasn't that way he took
a bottle pretty quick yeah um and so I would
get like out of the house and around other people
multiple times or like at least once a week and
it wasn't a big deal yeah and that was starting
from when he was like a month old so i yeah i
think i think there are things you can do early
on to like kind of set the groundwork yeah part
of me doesn't want like i don't know i feel like
part of me wants to just be so enmeshed with
my kids you know like I don't want to differentiate
yeah if that makes sense I know it's healthy
well then do I really want to not really yeah
and then I think again there is this balance
of like there's a healthy amount of enmeshment
you know um and maybe it's called something different
and like that specific term is like you know
like codependence kind of thing versus like being
a team yeah because it's like I I want to be
connected to their needs. And again, once they're
getting older, that starts to look different
and it starts to get really unhealthy, right?
You know, if you have a 16 -year -old who you're
still as connected to as your six -month -old,
that's a little creepy. That's a problem. Yeah.
Yeah, and honestly, your 16 -year -old's probably
not going to appreciate it. Yeah, and that's
when you start to experience things like maybe...
You're going to be a low contact later in life
or whatever, you know, if this isn't handled
in a healthy way. So like, I get that. And I
know she's also talking to all moms, you know,
not specifically just to like us where we're
in the early years where a lot of this is like,
no, this is just, you know, we're in survival
mode. And again, when you have a newborn, like
you are still connected to them essentially in
some capacity. Yeah. Yep. This is kind of jumping
back. Yeah. But she talks about kind of a lot
of the negatives of social media and motherhood.
And a lot of things like you go on social media
and you see other moms and you're like, oh, they
have it all together. Yes. Why don't I? Do you
feel that way? Oh, for sure. Yeah. And it makes
me, I don't know, like I feel like we're in such
a social media generation. And so I think it's
fun to like. post on social media about what
we're doing or but i do feel like there is that
pressure of like i'm only gonna post about the
the good stuff the positives yeah yeah well and
part of it is like the negatives you're dealing
with the negatives right like i don't want to
like mid tantrum be like pull my phone out not
my story it's like no we're dealing with whatever's
happening where it's like oh we're at the zoo
together like i i want to document this because
also in 20 years when i am devastated because
all my kids are out of the house this is the
moment that i'm gonna want to look back remember
and yeah yep well the other thing that i think
between this book and then one of the things
i've just kind of been realizing on my own too
one of the issues with social media and technology
and obviously like we have a podcast i'm not
anti -technology um is it makes you emotionally
close with the people who are physically far
away from you and that makes it really hard to
have your like support system village needs met
yeah so one of the things i think maybe i mentioned
this for maternity leave with zeta my like brain
rot show was the dick van dyke show yes and so
For anyone who hasn't seen it, because it's so
old, a little bit of the, like, setup is there's
Rob and Laura, and they're the main couple. And
their best friends, Millie and Jerry, live in
the house next door. Okay. And they both have
kids. And I know half of this setup is so that
there's, like, a reason in the show why their
kid just, like, isn't there half the time. It's
because they're like, oh, he's over at Millie
and Jerry's. But the, like... This relationship
between Laura and Millie is one of these things
where I'm like, I don't know if this used to
be more normal because of, like, how community
worked or if this is just, like, the sitcom dream.
But it's like, oh, one of them's going to the
grocery store, so the other will be like, can
you pick up eggs for me? Because they live next
door, so it's like, that's really convenient.
Or, like, one of them is making a costume for
the kids' school play and the other's helping.
Or it's like, yeah. Richie, go over to Aunt Millie's
house because I have to do this. And when you
are emotionally close with the people who aren't
physically close with you, those things just
don't exist. Right. Like that doesn't exist.
Like even my parents, they live fairly close.
They live like 10 minutes away. But that's still
far enough that it's like if I needed to just
run to the grocery store, it's easier for me
to load the kids up in the car, get everyone
to the grocery store. go pick up the gallon of
milk that I need and come back than it is to,
like, hey, mom, can you, like, come sit? Come
over and sit with the kids. Right, because by
the time she's over here, I could have been back.
So then you just end up doing more things on
your own because the people. Because it's just
easier. Yeah, and then it's, like, all of my
neighbors, like, we've started to get to know
some of our neighbors, but I don't know any of
them well enough to be, like. Hey, can you just
come sit with my kids while I run and get milk?
Yeah. You know? Yeah. And again, maybe that's
just like our neighborhood or. I feel like it's
a generational thing, honestly. I think like
as bad as it sounds, like people are way more
cautious. Yeah. Now. Which to a certain extent,
like me too and I get it. The world is. It's
crazy. Crazy right now. And I'm not going to
trust just anyone. Yeah. Out there, especially
to watch my kids. Yeah. I've joked with Stuart
and my mom, like no one is ever allowed to be
with, you guys aren't allowed to be alone with
my kids because I don't trust anyone. Yeah. We
did this training at church. I think the ministry
safe training. I did that one too. Yeah. After
I left that, I was like. I don't trust anyone.
Yeah, I was like, do I even trust myself? Yeah,
I was like, Stuart's not allowed to be around
my kids. My parents aren't allowed to be around
my kids. My in -laws. Certainly no one who isn't
background checked. And there are video cameras
all around my house. They're never leaving my
house. Yeah, exactly. And then I'm just going
to have to leave my child in their room. Yes,
he's going to be a bubble boy is what's happening.
Yes. Yeah, I honestly think it's a generational
thing. Yeah. and meshing going back to that word
i kind of don't like that word it kind of sounds
weird to me but melding their lives together
and i feel like that's such a i don't know maybe
pre all this technology pre that's part of it
right is because it's easy to be in communication
and in community with someone who you're not
next door with whereas like that used to be like
long distance you know I have one of my friends
lives in Idaho and I text her all the time about
mom questions like am I crazy about this you
know and 15 20 years ago that would have been
a long distance call yeah okay maybe not 15 but
you know at one point in time that would have
been a long distance call yeah and that wouldn't
have necessarily been worth it to be like am
I crazy because my mom did this or my mother
-in -law did this or because I took him to the
doctor when this happened or whatever. And so
you do go to the person next door or someone
closer or whatever. Yeah. It's just simpler.
It's just different. Yeah. Yeah. Life was just
simpler, I would say. Not that I, I don't know.
I think about our childhoods. I feel like life
was much simpler. Oh, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. I
mean, we would hang out with the neighbor kids
all the time. Yeah. We have so many pictures.
Within the last couple of years, my mom and I
just went through like all of her physical pictures
and the amount we have of like just the neighborhood
kids hanging out in the street, like, you know,
having fun, water balloon fights, whatever. Like,
how do we get back to that? How do we get back
to those roots? Because those are some of like
the most core memories for me as a child of like.
Messing around with the neighborhood kids. Like
we used to, we convinced our neighbors that me
and my siblings were the spy kids. I love it.
They were convinced for months and months and
months that we were real life spy kids. And like
that to me is such a core memory. Yeah. And like.
I'm like, how do I give our, like, how do I give
my kids that type of childhood? Yeah. Well, it's
tough because when not everyone is like thinking
that way. No. You know, it'd be one thing if
everyone was on the same page. Like, we need
to get back to this. But it's like your next
door neighbors maybe don't have those same priorities.
No. Which actually, going to priorities, that's
one thing she mentioned that I liked is good
moms can have different priorities and still
be good moms. Yeah. Because I think. Yes. It's
really easy both to judge and to feel judged
when you have different priorities. Yeah. Right.
Where it's like, this is how we're choosing to
raise our kid. And again, outside of like actual
abuse or whatever, you know, you guys can make
a vastly different decision than us on something.
And that doesn't make either one of us a better
mom. It's just like, hey, we're just doing what's
best for our family and what we feel like convicted
and. Yeah. you know drawn to for our family yeah
she talked about like screen time and her family
in that uh in that area about like side note
i have just a quick beef with her statistic oh
yeah because it's from a study from 2008 because
she says something about like they did a study
on preschoolers who like had a lot of screen
time versus no screen time yep and like they
all turned out pretty much the same and then
i looked at the study she referenced and it's
from 2008 and you're like It's a little bit different
now. Yeah. No judgment, but anyways, go back
to what you're saying. No, for sure. No, but
yeah, she talked about like how, so she has,
I think she said she has five boys, which, whoa,
first of all. It's probably in my future, to
be honest. So this is just prep for you? Yeah.
But she talked about like how pretty much all
the time in their house, they just had like the
TV going. They just, yeah, they like. They weren't
always eating vegetables every meal. They weren't
prioritizing that. They were just making sure
their kids were fed and happy. And how the majority
of her kids are, I mean, all fairly great kids.
They survived. Yeah, they survived that. No one's
a serial killer yet. Yeah, yet. But I feel like
there is such an internal pressure now of like...
being that social media like perfect picture
perfect mom who's no screen time like my kids
eat well i think it's tough it's like there are
some things that there's two parts to it right
there's the like oh everyone's doing this so
i should which is like we all just need to get
over that myself included but then there's like
oh i see this and that is what i desire to be
i just don't have the capacity like I know a
lot of moms right now who are starting to mill
their own flour. Oh gosh. Which I think is super
cool. That is cool. And to be honest, I would
love to be the mom who I like mill my own flour
and make my own sandwich bread every week. Yeah.
But then I'm like, I can't like. I can't even
get all my emails done at work all the time.
Last week we ate out at least twice. Yeah. Because
I was on the verge of a breakdown and Stuart
was like, yeah, we are just, we're going to order
dinner in so that you don't lose your mind. Yeah.
So it's like that, that's my reality right now.
And, you know, maybe someday in the future when
the kids are older, I'll be the mom milling my
own flour and making my own bread. I don't know.
You know, maybe that'll never happen. I don't
know. But it's like, I would love to be that
mom. You know, it's not like I think I should
be. It's like, no, like. Like an aspiration.
Yeah. But. reminding myself like oh I work a
full -time job I have the kids home with me almost
all the time yeah you know it's it's okay that
we just have store -bought bread and it's okay
that you know when we have McDonald's three times
this week because we're in survival mode and
that's the closest thing to our house honestly
it's like that the so the book talks about like
all these myths of motherhood and one of them
is the super mom myth that you're just like,
you're this mom, like you're not a good mom unless
you can do it all basically. And I just, I could
say it out loud, like obviously. Yeah. But like,
do I really believe that? I don't know. Like
I should be able to do it all. Yeah. And so,
um, I like this description. It's like motherhood
comes with this invisible job description, do
it all perfectly. And I just think that, I think
that that's, it's such a, it isn't, I know it's
a myth. yeah but I want I want to be this super
mom that can do it all yeah yeah it's really
hard because like again you want to do it all
and you want to yeah you want to be that mom
that makes bread you know if that's your aspiration
you know that makes the bread and that gets everything
done and has the perfectly clean house but it's
really but when it's not in your capacity it's
just not but when you're holding yourself to
that standard yeah that's yeah yeah it's really
tough it goes back to like the priorities of
good moms look different like you can be a good
mom and you know eat mcdonald's three times a
week and you're still a great mom yeah or you
could be a great mom and you make your own sourdough
and yeah raise your own chickens and live off
the land exactly and feed your kids lots of vegetables
so yeah yeah okay i think we are going to break
here. Okay. And we'll be back next week. Let
us know what you think of, yeah, this kind of
book review. Yeah. And you guys should check
out the book because it really is good. Yeah.
It was convicting to me. And yeah, we'll chat
next week about it. Well, do you want to get
into your win of the week? I would love to. So
my win, so like I mentioned, so Colt just turned
two. about a week ago and one of the things we
got him for his birthday is one of those like
learning towers it's uh basically like a little
step stool thing you guys have one yeah we call
it his helper stand yeah yeah so he can like
pull it up to the counter and like help us make
food or like um he really likes to now eat his
meals standing in it but it is We bought it from
one of our coworkers who had it. And it's cool
because on the back of it, it's like magnetic.
So he has like a bunch of like farm animal magnets
on there. And he's like been super into those,
super into just like washing his hands now, which
is like. Cool. Love that. Love clean hands and
wants to like watch us or help us like cook everything.
And we also got him an apron and it's just like
the most adorable thing. And so I think my win
from that is like, first of all, it's just super
cute. And, but it also like has made me just,
it's tested my patience because I know it's like.
Things are going to go slower. It's going to
create more of a mess. He's for sure going to,
like, grab the flower and eat it. Yes. Yeah.
And so it's just been super fun. That's so fun.
Yeah. Lloyd loves his helper sand. I need to
get back into, like, having him help with stuff
more and, like, pulling it up to the ground.
I have in my Amazon cart, like, one of those
Montessori, like. Those kids, like, cutlery,
like. We have one. I think we got it from her
Christmas, so it was a little too young. Yeah.
But, yeah, I need to get, like, back into, like,
having him help. Yeah. With that kind of stuff.
Colt just wants to, he, like, says his name.
He goes, Kiki. He goes, Colt. We call him Colty.
So he goes, could you try? And so he wants to
try everything. And so I'm like, okay, I think
I need to get him those so that he can, like,
he can really try. Yeah. So you're not using
my. knives that no absolutely not yeah are going
to hurt you and i keep our knives like very sharp
that's like the thing in the kitchen i'm very
paranoid about is like a dull knife is actually
more dangerous so yeah that is so true um okay
okay what's your win my win of the week uh it's
a little bit of backstory on this so a couple
weeks ago lloyd was like really tired in the
morning and kept asking for a nap and i don't
really know why but it was like 10 a .m. so I
was like we're not going down for a nap this
early that's gonna make everyone's afternoon
miserable but also I had a grocery order to pick
up so I was like I can't even like we've got
to wait till I can pick up groceries at least
before you go down for nap. But he kept asking,
so like, well, do you want to lay down on the
couch? And he goes, lay down. I was like, okay.
So I like go, I like stack up some pillows and
lay him down on the couch and like tuck him in
with the blanket and give him his little like
Yoshi stuffed animal. And he was like, you think
I took the kid to Disneyland? Like he was so
thrilled. But now anytime he's like a little
bit tired, he just goes, lay down couch. Lay
down couch. Actually, he says lay down nap. And
that means he wants to lay down on the couch
and lay down nap. And so I'm like, you want to
lay down? I'm like, okay. And so we like take
him over to the couch and tuck him in with some
pillows and blankets and give him his little
Yoshi and his little llama. And he just like
snuggles with his stuffed animals. And sometimes
he wants to read a book. He'll also do it himself
sometimes, which is super cute. He just like
slides under the blanket and like grabs a book.
It's also nice because sometimes he does that
while I'm working and then he just wants me to
sit next to him. And you're like, you can keep
working. I can answer emails while you sit next
to me. Does he fall asleep? He's like too excited.
It's like, do you ever watch The Office? There's
the episode where Kelly gets a choice between
watching an hour of TV or a nap at work. And
she's just like, I'm too excited to sleep. I
feel like that's what Lloyd is at when he like...
lay down nap on the couch is he just wants to
lay down that's amazing he's like we're like
hey buddy you can do this anytime but he loves
it i don't know why it's like so special to him
but it is and it's so cute it's so sweet that's
adorable i don't know if you feel this way like
as our kids uh are getting a little older that
they're just like becoming these these humans
and it just like everything makes me so like
i love just watching like him learn and yeah
it's just like the cutest thing like ever what
his actual personality is and like yeah yeah
learning about your kid even though you've known
them like oh no this is who you're becoming yeah
it's so fun it's so sweet all right well thanks
for listening to part one of this episode we
will come back next week sweet we didn't want
to give you like a two -hour episode yeah that's
a bit much tune in next week for i want to say
the second half of the book but we kind of jumped
all around so just the second part yeah the second
part of all of our takes on this book and we
will see you next week see you next week