Hi, everyone. Welcome back to No Manual on MomCast,
where this is a place for moms to listen to really
the reality of motherhood. the wins, the fails,
all of it. So today we have a really, really
special guest. Our sweet friend Ambry is here
to talk a little bit more about postpartum depression
and mental health and what that kind of looked
like for her. But first, before we get into all
of that, Ambry, do you just want to do a brief
intro of you? Yes, yes. Thank you for having
me. My name is Ambry. I am nobody to anybody
listening, but I think that's kind of the point
of this podcast. Like we're all just moms, but
also we can all be relatable. It's all relatable
in some way. Ambry, I feel like I met both of
you through our church, Flatirons, where I used
to work for a while. I was there for seven years
in ministry. And then got pregnant with our first
about almost three years ago, which is crazy.
He's going to be three. And went back to work
for a little while. And I think I'll probably
share some of this today. But it wasn't work
that was really hard. It was my mental health
that was hard before even going back. And then
I'm very fortunate that I have a husband who
can provide. Honestly, my paycheck was paying
for our childcare. We didn't have any free childcare.
So it was like going towards childcare and was
like, do you just need to stay home? And honestly,
I'll get into this, but at the time I was like,
I'm terrified to stay home because home is where
I'm really bad right now. But I did, I ended
up staying home and that actually begun a really
difficult journey for me. And then fast forward,
we... surprise we got pregnant uh when our son
was nine months old which is really similar to
you guys we all we were just talking about how
we all have two under two or I did but yeah so
now my son is almost three and we have a six
month old at home Quinn little girl and that's
my family my husband is Connor and he's wonderful
and silly and he's really the one who's better
at this kind of stuff than me honestly but oh
my gosh he's not here because he's not mom you
know yeah Well, let's hop into our mom moments
of the week. Okay. And do you want to go first,
Ambry? I literally, I feel like I talked about
six before we even got started. Yeah, right.
I like had to write these down because so many
happen. I'm going to share two. Perfect. Okay.
Mom. Oh. We've been watching Daniel Tiger with
my three -year -old and they're awesome for lessons.
And one is on like calming down your anger. And
there's a song that's like, when you're feeling
mad and you want to roar, take a deep breath
and count to four. One, two, three, four. And
so we've been teaching Tripp that and it was
like super effective for a while. And I cannot
remember, I'm not trying to jump around this,
but I genuinely can't remember what I got frustrated
at the other day. But I just got frustrated,
but I didn't yell or anything. I just, it was.
It's kind of crazy how intuitive toddlers are.
Because I was pretty calm and collected, but
I was frustrated. And Tripp goes, remember that
song, Mommy? When you're feeling mad and you
want to roar, take a deep breath and count to
four. And so I was like, oh my gosh, my three
-year -old is regulating my emotions right now.
That's horrible and amazing, but horrible. Because
I was like, wow, I'm actually falling apart.
But another funny thing that actually... We were
teaching him the other day. Well, no, this was
not the other day. This was during Easter time.
He was asking questions about Jesus and the tomb
and all this. And Connor was trying to tell him
how Jesus is with us now. So he was just talking
about Jesus is in our hearts. You know, that's
what Connor ended up saying. And Trip. goes,
yes, he's in my heart and in my penis and in
my booty. We were like, well, yeah. I think little
boys, like, I don't know if you guys have experienced
this yet, but they're just obsessed with their
penises. Yeah, yeah. Once it's discovered, I'm
like, not everything is about your penis, buddy.
But he, yeah. But I was like, that's very sweet
and innocent. They were like, Jesus is with us.
He's in our hearts. Yes. And in my penis and
in my booty. We're like, oh. You're like, I can't
tell you. I think it was a strong. I know. We
just didn't say anything and just chuckled to
each other. And we're like. That's one of those
moments where you're like. making eye contact
to try not to laugh you're like we'll laugh about
this later because now we don't want to encourage
this totally but it was also so sweet and innocent
because we're like this must have been a really
strong week of us talking about like anatomically
correct parts or something you know because he
was like really obsessed at the time yes with
his with his parts but we're like that was sweet
and innocent that's amazing so that was a few
of mine but i have A lot more. We can come back
to it. I know, right? Yeah, I always have to
pick which one. I'm like, what am I actually
going to share this week? Do you want to share
yours? Sure. Yeah, so mine is... Lloyd is a little
bit in a phase where he still loves his sister,
but... We were talking about this before we started.
Like, he likes to throw things at her and all
the things. And this week, he just likes to crawl
over her. And I don't really know if he, like,
thinks this is, like, a sweet, playful thing
or what. But, of course, she is 10 pounds and
he is much bigger than that. Yeah. So, you know,
I always, like, try to, like, redirect him. Like,
you can sit next to her or whatever. But so he
had, like, crawled over her and she got upset,
obviously. And then immediately he tried to comfort
her. It was really, really sweet, but also the
duality of you being a big brother right now
is you were hurting her, and then you were sad
that she was hurt, and you want to comfort her
because you're mad she's hurt. I mean, that's
pretty much every day this week is something
happens where he hurts her, and then he's trying
to comfort her because he doesn't want her to
be sad. Well, if it is encouraging at all, Colt
does the exact same thing where he, like, he
hits Cruz and then immediately signs, sorry,
and is like, sorry, sorry, and then tries to
find his Patsy and stick it in his mouth as hard
as he possibly can. So, same, same. Yeah. And
so relatable. Yeah. My mom moment is, so, I was...
working from home which I started work this week
which is a whole thing trying to balance taking
care of kids working from home and so I had Cruz
in the carrier and he fell asleep and I was like
I have to pee so so bad and it was it was like
in that moment I was like I'm not gonna I'm not
gonna try to transfer him to like the bed or
his bassinet or anything right now. I'm just
going to, you know, I'm just going to try to
keep him in the carrier and pee. And it just
was, I mean, it's a difficult task. Yeah. As
I'm sure maybe you guys know too. Yeah. Totally
done it. Yeah. You have to. And it's like the
angle. Oh, hi, cruisy. Yeah. It's like the angle
of trying to, I don't know, pull your pants down
and wipe and not wake up a baby. Yeah. Yeah.
Not get his feet in the toilet if they're hanging
out. Yeah. So that was my mom moment. It was
funny and hilarious, but yeah. And just the reality
of being a mom in a nutshell. Yes, exactly. But
anyways, so grateful you're here, Ambry. I know
you kind of like briefly touched on your family.
You've got two kiddos and you're a stay -at -home
mom. Tell us a little bit. more about like your
pregnancies and how those went my pregnancies
I mean like all in all were great I had huge
babies and so I was uncomfortable but that didn't
that did not compare to throwing up like people
throwing up and all that no I actually had great
pregnancies and I might be the person that believes
that like, if you have great pregnancies, then
you have a hard postpartum and vice versa. Like
I've heard that joke, but I'm like, no, really
I've had friends who have had miserable pregnancies
and just blissful postpartums. And yeah, obviously
that's a broad statement, but yeah, I would say
I had pretty easy pregnancies to be honest. Yeah.
Very exciting. Like with trip, we were my first,
we were. trying we really wanted to get pregnant
and we were very very grateful and felt very
blessed that we were able to get pregnant relatively
quickly so so I felt like even the journey in
any time that any pregnant woman is just uncomfortable
and hates being pregnant for a little bit I always
remembered being like but this was an easy journey
for us to get here like I can't complain kind
of thing so that's kind of I mean, there's nothing
more to share, really. They were pretty good.
No, that's great. Was postpartum, so you said,
okay, pregnancies were easy. Postpartum was not.
Yeah, yeah. That's like my journey. Was it what
you expected at all? No. No. I think that's where
I kind of hurt myself, like kicked myself a little
bit is I've wanted to be a mom truly my whole
life. Like even in my singleness, I... was like
man if I don't find somebody soon I might just
like foster because I like this desire and this
like pull and tug for me to be a mom is so strong
I grew up with a single mom and so that could
have been part of it is like all I've ever seen
modeled like as a mom but with that I think along
like comes with some brokenness too of like never
seeing a very help never seeing a healthy marriage
and a mother father thing so that's a different
story but I expected kind of the bliss I saw
my sister walk through her first and she was
like the most perfect baby like I even she's
like she was too perfect like she was just a
good baby I mean slept well like was like saying
words at 16 months I mean latched well for breastfeeding
never had any issues with that like brenica was
truly my sister was in blissful world so i think
and i lived with her during that time so and
i nannied my whole life nannying felt so easy
and again this just tugged to be a mom was like
this is gonna be kind of my thing yeah and so
when that came crashing down like literally If
I look back on it, like in the hospital, by the
time I didn't think that, but in the hospital,
it started, I would say it started with Tripp,
my son having a hard time latching. And I was
really motivated to breastfeed, like not all
moms are. And I had, you know, my background
is in nutrition, dietetics, and my most passionate
class was prenatal nutrition. And so even in
college, like... forever ago learning about that,
I was like, oh my gosh, like I just became passionate
about breastfeeding of all things. I wasn't even
a mom yet. So I was just like, this is going
to be easy. Like I know more about breastfeeding
than other people going into it. I just had all
of these, I guess like prideful thing, like where
I was like, this, this is everything I've ever
wanted. Like, it's going to be so good. And there's
something about like. I don't know, breastfeeding
in particular, where, like, it's the most natural
thing in the world. So, like, what could be complicated
about it? Right. Like, obviously, babies can
come out. I know. They're going to latch. I don't,
like, not even that I don't have to do anything,
just, like. it's just how it works. Yes. You
know, it's like breathing. Yes. And like if it
hurts, it's just like you get past that pain
because you just had a baby, you were in labor.
I was just thinking like the pain doesn't really
matter because like I'm feeding my baby. But
it turns out like the pain is really painful
like starting out and not actually like. I mean,
at 2 a .m. when you, like, have mastitis and
you have, like, a spiked 102 -degree fever and,
like, it literally hurts to latch. Like, getting
ready for them to latch, I remember just being,
like, I'm crying before he's even latched. But
he did not latch in the hospital. And it was
instant, like, cortisol spike. Like, truly, I
couldn't. Looking back on it, it almost feels
silly to say. that I went into like this fight
or flight because I obviously as a new mom, I
was like, I have to feed my baby. And like truly
there's a pressure to feed your baby because
they're crying. And then also you have medical
staff being like, we got to get this and we got
to get this quick. And if you can't get it, you
need to start pumping. So I was pumping and they
were starting to give him bottles. And then I
was like, oh no, he's only going to take bottles.
I mean, I was already, this was like a few hours
into it. So I was already like, he's already
taking a bottle. And so I didn't realize like
looking back and obviously with my second, it
was so easy to breastfeed her. My boobs were
fresh breastfed boobs, you know? So I think it
was just so easy. And I don't know if that would
have been my experience anyways with the first,
but I'm just like, if it had been a little easier,
I might've been able to like soak it in a little
bit and like see him. But the hospital is pretty
blurry. Like once Tripp got there, elated, I
was in heaven. And as soon as breastfeeding started
and like the struggle with it, it was truly like,
oh, I'm like in fight or flight. As soon as they
sent us home, I remember having anxiety about
going home because I'm like, you guys are going
to send me home and he's only latched once. And
I remember, and there, you know. the doc, like
they were just like, well, he's taking a bottle.
Well, and essentially saying like, you can form
your feet. There's options, but I'm telling you
like now I like with Quinn, I was like, if it
goes bad, I'm giving her a bottle because I knew
now what I didn't know then, which was like,
it's not worth my mental health. Yeah. But at
that time, again, like my all in all my everything
was I'm going to breastfeed this baby. And so,
and So I was putting my heart and soul into that.
I came home and they're like, you know, you probably
need to connect to the lactation consultant.
As soon as I came home, I was like, I don't know
how to find a lactation consultant. Tation can,
who, how do you find that? And then is it, does
insurance cover it? And then I was looking at
the pump that I had that I didn't at the hospital
they did for me. And I was like, oh, I have it
in the box. I haven't even unboxed it. I don't
even know how to work it. So literally, and mind
you, Trip is crying. And mind you, Trip ended
up being a colicky baby. So he was crying all
the time. And so he was screaming. I had my brother
-in -law and my sister there of all people. And
my brother -in -law was holding Tripp while he
was screaming. But that was very stressful as
a first -time mom because I knew he was hungry.
And I didn't have a supply yet. My milk hadn't
even come in. But I was like, someone take this
out of the box and help me figure it out. And
I was on YouTube looking up how to work my LV
pump. Like literally, and this is the time where
I was picturing, I would take my baby home and
hold it on my chest. That's like really what
I was picturing. And then, oh, he's hungry. I'm
going to latch. And then I was like, Connor,
you need to call. I don't even know. Look through
this huge hospital folder that they sent us home
with and look for a lactation number. I don't
even know if I was communicating all this the
way I'm communicating now. I think everyone was
sensing like. like Ambry's not doing well right
now. And someone, what do we need to do? And
at the time it was like, you need to make trip
to stop crying. But I was like, but he needs
me. And all I was doing was like, I need to find
my pump. I need to find my pump. And so that
began our very long, very difficult journey of
trying to get my son to breastfeed, which I'm
grateful to say was like the hardest road ever.
I mean, it's like under talked about, I think.
If you really try to stick it out when it's hard,
but it was Connor waking up when Tripp would
wake up with me. I would pump while Connor would
give him a bottle. So that would happen first.
I remember getting teary eyed looking at him
because again, like everything in my nature wanted
to feed my baby. And in that moment, I, again,
with my second, I would be like, thank you Connor
for feeding, you know, giving her a bottle. But
with Tripp, I was like, I feel like a cow. I'm
pumping my boobs and you're feeding my baby.
And everything in your motherhood is like, give
me my baby. And I couldn't. So already I think
there was these forming of narratives of like,
you can't do it and you're not enough kind of
thing without me realizing it. And then I got
help and I had to use a nipple shield if everyone
here knows about it. And literally Connor had
to wake up in the middle of the night, every
feeding. I would pump. He would get a syringe.
We would put it in the bottle. Connor would syringe
milk into the nipple shield while Tripp was on
my boob. And that was our feedings for two and
a half, three months. So your baby's four months.
So for three months, we did that for every feeding.
Wow. Except for when Connor went back to work
and I was syringing milk while I was holding
him. So I was two hands at all times for 30 minutes.
And I remember like having back problems just
because of the position of like literally holding
him. Because if you get a latch, it was like
don't move a muscle. Yeah. And as soon as it'd
be done, I'd be like the tension in my back.
I couldn't drink water. He was so colicky that
like I'm watching your sweet little boy sleeping
on you right now. It was like Trip would go from
that to literally a hundred like scream crying
because it turns out he had GERD, I think, or
I don't know. So he would have a burp and he
would get stuck. wake up with it and so I would
shriek I would have like a visceral reaction
to like he's awake and so I would feel truly
nap trapped like again with my second carried
her everywhere to go get my water with trip it
was like okay he's on me I am here forever if
I wanted my phone it's gone if I wanted my water
don't have it if I need to eat can't do it and
I would stay on the couch literally in my spiraling
thoughts. And I would sit and hold this baby
that felt almost foreign to me. And that's the
part that's hard to share because, but I think
that's a big part of what we're going to talk
about here is like, now that I know what I was
experiencing, I think I'm just talking about
the snowball right now, but what I really ended
up experiencing was true. deep anxiety to depression.
When you say postpartum depression, it's one
in the same with anxiety, I think. Like I would
have the anxious thought, but the anxiety wasn't
new to me. But the feelings of feeling emotionally
stuck were like, I am truly like depressed. And
I remember like one of the six week postpartum
questions was like, do you have the feeling of
not wanting to get out of bed? And I remember
just being like, well, yeah. What? But I have
a baby. I remember being angry at that for some
reason. Like, what the frick? Like, if I had
the choice, I would never get out of bed. And
I'm like, I was like, how could you ask a mom
that? And then I was like, oh, I think some moms
don't get out of bed. And I started to understand
how moms could treat their babies poorly or neglect
their babies. I never, ever wanted to. or treat
themselves poorly, like hurt themselves. I never
had those thoughts. I never like truly went to
a place of wanting to hurt myself. But I began
to, it was almost like a gift, like in a grace
of God that he would let me see like the brokenness
that actually exists postpartum that there needs
to, like I have such a passion for it because
I was like. oh no, really good moms who want
to show up for their kids. They're not doing
drugs and stuff. I knew in my head I was a good
mom. But everything externally and everything
I was showing up, all of my emotional everything
was like, you're actually really bad at this.
You're actually not. And I had thoughts of like,
Tripp deserves better. And maybe you should just
leave him. at home with a name. Like you shouldn't,
you shouldn't stay home. You're dangerous to
him. Like he's not going to serve. You can't
even feed him. I mean, like talk about the spiral.
It was truly out of control. So I went to a really
dark place and I, and then when Connor back to
work, I was alone to those thoughts. And I realized
I didn't really have many mom friends besides
Janessa Swatsky, who we had babies at the same
time. And she worked with me at Flatirons and
honestly, like, the biggest gift from God in
any season but especially motherhood is community
like you have to be doing it you have to be doing
it with people especially in your stage like
even you two right here I'm like it's so cool
you guys have each other but she became like
my guiding light because I was watching her with
her third just not care as much about things
that I cared about and like let her baby cry
without having the visceral response and it was
just like this grace to me to be able to watch
like okay, your baby can cry, you know, or just
like, I know he's going to be okay if I set him
down. And I, but, but everything, this is when
I knew I was really struggling. Everything felt
so big and it was small, but everything was a
weight. Everything was a pressure. And by the
time Connor got home, I, most days, I'm not exaggerating.
Most days I hadn't brushed my teeth yet. Um,
most days I remember I dropped weight with trip
really dangerously quickly and everyone, you
know, it was like, wow, you look great. And now
that I have a healthy weight still for my second
born, I'm like, oh, that was so unhealthy. I
actually was, wasn't eating and, but not, but
not on purpose. It's not purpose. I wanted, I
was very hungry, but I was eating my baby. I
couldn't. Yeah. And even my. And even that's
when food became really stressful to me. It's
still kind of one of my hills. I have to cook
dinner. I didn't have capacity to think about
brushing my teeth. So I'm like, I have to make
food. And then all of a sudden my baby started
eating solids and now I have to make food for
him. I mean, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Well,
I think like as you talk, a lot of the things
that you're like neglecting with yourself, even
just like drinking water and eating and brushing
your teeth are all things that help you help
your mental health. Like we know that the things
that I know specifically about postpartum depression
and anxiety is how much you eat. can affect that
so deeply yeah that's like okay if you're already
like a little bit there or a lot of it there
and then you start neglecting these other things
then all of a sudden this snowball just gets
so much bigger so much faster totally because
things that are like physical that make it worse
are the things that you're neglecting totally
or the things like no 100 but see now how i would
show up for moms like And yes, I was neglecting
it because like with my second, I found time
to do it and prioritize myself. But then it didn't
feel like I was like to say I was neglecting
it. The time would have like spiraled me deeper
into shame. It was more like I need someone to
do for me what I'm not able to do for myself.
But to ask for that or to go to a place of like.
is that really what's going? I mean, I truly
didn't even call it depressed. I didn't even
know I was depressed because you're just still
showing up. I remember talking to my counselor
when I finally went to counseling. I mean, I
don't know at what point I went to a counseling
session. Because I was literally trapped in my
house. Like when I see moms, new moms now out
and about in the first few months, I'm always
like, you're doing a great job. I don't think
I left my house. And if I did, it was an anxious
drive to Starbucks and it's anxious drive back
because I would come home to trip screaming.
It was just for me to get a coffee. And I wasn't
even drinking coffee because I thought he was
sensitive to coffee. So I cut out dairy. I cut
out coffee. I cut out beans. I cut out cruciferous
vegetables. I cut out all these things that I
thought was affecting his tummy issues. And I
mean, it's kind of crazy talking about that only
in hindsight, right? But I told my counselor,
backing up, sorry. I was like, my biggest value
in life is being authentic. you guys know me,
I think well enough to know that I'm pretty much
like, I tell you what's, I tell you what's up.
I just, I value, yes, I value authenticity. And
I said, I feel the most inauthentic I felt in
my life because I'm still showing up. I was like,
I'm, I am going to events now and I'm smiling
and I'm having a good time. I think I remember
saying, I think, and I'm, I'm all these things,
but nobody sees me inside. nobody sees me I'm
still showing up and I've never felt so disconnected
from myself never it is truly like an out -of
-body experience where I can like see myself
showing up at a party and see myself showing
up to the brewery and I'm watching myself being
like that's not where you are and I was in the
hole like I was truly in the you need to dig
yourself out of the hole I was showing up to
work not passionate anymore like just not I couldn't
I didn't have the energy I didn't even have a
bone in my body that could be like fully present
at work because a my baby was at home who I loved
and missed but also who was causing all of the
new anxiety in my life so I was just I wasn't
present and my counselor I'll never forget she
was just like well Ambry and this is hard to
hear but she was like that doesn't surprise me
at all there's people unfortunately this is a
fortunate reality but we live in a world where
there's someone standing next to you at a grocery
store who's contemplating suicide that day wow
yeah right so she's like that's just the people
show up every day it's survival it's the way
that we were made like it's out of design so
it doesn't mean you're being inauthentic you
know but we just kind of talk through like Because
sometimes when you do show up authentically,
when you're feeling depressed in postpartum specifically,
I realize, not just depressed in life, because
as soon as you have a baby now, all of a sudden
you get authentic about your depression and the
fear that other people will think, A, you're
a bad mom or B, you don't like your kid is all
of a sudden there. If you're just depressed in
life, it could be affiliated or associated with
any other contextual thing that like everyone's
like, I get it. Oh, like that's so low. all of
a sudden for you to be vulnerable enough to say,
this is my struggle. And people who honestly
are in bliss with their baby, they cannot understand
it, of course, because that's how it should be.
But also, all of a sudden, my anxiety, depression
is tied to this kid who I love. How can those
two things exist? I mean, how can I hold this
much spiraling in my mind, this much sadness
and sorrow and joy for my kid? And so to admit
you're struggling, felt like for me that I was
admitting I didn't like to be a mom but that
wasn't true or it was like admitting Tripp is
so hard and I don't like him and I try to be
really careful Tripp has been challenging was
a challenging baby because he was so he cried
so much but I try to be really careful about
saying that he's hard because I'm like I think
Tripp I think he's just a kid I think he's a
toddler right now but it was truly how how I
was experiencing it so Obviously, there's so
much there. So I don't know if you guys have
heard anything. Well, I think one of the things
I've noticed and like one thing Stuart and I
talked about prior to even starting the podcast
is how weird it is with how people talk about
parenting and motherhood in particular compared
to everything else. And I've probably said this
on here before, but it's like if you admit that
you're having a hard time with motherhood, it.
like the assumption is that like you hate your
kid. We're like, that is, that couldn't be further
from the truth. But there's so many other things
where it's like, if you go to law school, if
you are starting a business, if you know, there's
a thousand other things in life that if you're
like, listen, I'm, you know, I'm in college and
I'm having a really tough time. People are like,
yeah, college is hard. Like, you know, if again,
if you're starting a business and we're like
building your business, that that's really challenging
and it's frustrating at times, you know, no one's
like, well, Maybe you're just a bad business
owner. You know, it's like, no, that's just things
are hard. Life is hard. And, but as soon as that
comes up with motherhood, it's like, oh yeah.
You know, there's like a stigma to it, which
is so silly. Cause it's like one of the most
important things we do. Totally. But yeah, it's,
and yeah, there, even if you have an amazing
kid, you have days that are just like. Oh, that
was, that took it out of me. So I think you have
like the motherhood experience, which is what
you just talked about. Like the mental load you
carry, like right now the, you're having to anticipate
going back to work and the childcare and the
prepping of the meals. If you do that part, like
the mental load and the job, quote unquote, like
the job of motherhood and mothering your kids.
And even the pressure of like, raising them up
right and like what am I doing on a daily basis
that's instilling anything of value to them so
there's like this experience of motherhood and
then there's just like your kids you know like
as, as, as people and how, so talking about,
sometimes I'm like the experience of motherhood
is challenging. And I feel like you could talk,
you're right. Like there's this stigma that,
that, that job in and of itself can't be challenging,
but then talking about like, man, I'm really
struggling with potty train trip, you know, and
how he's whatever X, Y, and Z it like that. that's
now like a person and that's as an individual,
as an individual. And I'm not trying, and he's
a toddler who needs guidance and who needs a
mother, but that there doesn't, there's no safe
space to talk about like a challenging experience
with a kid. You know what I mean? Cause I'm like,
it's one in the same. I'm talking about the same
thing essentially. Like, but it's also almost
like, like how do you say this kid is kind of
hard. But motherhood is so therefore motherhood
is hard. Yeah. Well, I think it's almost like
we're talking about it as a job where it's like
motherhood, the job is hard. It's beautiful.
It's amazing. It's hard. And then your kids almost
like your coworker that also you are training
because they're not, you know, they're still
learning to become a human. Yeah. So it's like,
yeah, sometimes you have coworkers who are just
great. And you, you know, you never have to correct
them or complain to your boss. And then you have
other coworkers who every single day you have
to remind yourself they are human. Yeah. And
that's kind of what it is with your kids where
it's like, and some days are good and some days
are bad. And it's a job you can't quit. You can't
quit it. I mean, some people do, but. And it's
so important. Like we all have parent issues,
like even if we have the best parents. So it's
just like, you just realize now like, oh, it
actually, it really matters. Like the day in,
day out matter, which I think. is important.
But also when I was really stuck, that thought
alone spiraled me into depression because I was
like, okay, every day matters. They get one day
wrong. Yeah. The pressure, the perfection. I
think I've heard it said that if you had a friend
in your life who was that naggy, who needed that
much from you that consistently, and who also
was knocking on your door all hours of the night,
you would defriend them. For sure. You would
literally put boundaries up. And so we're supposed
to love it all the time, but you can also not
like that experience of it because that's really
hard. But that doesn't – I've just been able
now to grow in my understanding of like I can
hold those two things in tension. I've never
not in one day of my life not loved my kids,
not once. Even in my darkest, deepest hole, I
remember not feeling love, and that – is where
I could cry. That is where I was like, what's
wrong with me? Like truly crying out to the Lord.
Like I was sick to my stomach because I was like,
I need to feel the feeling. And looking back
on it, I was like, my body was trying to keep
myself alive and then this baby alive. So I was
truly in survival. And so I remember the first
time I felt love. for a trip outside of that
hospital experience, like outside of him being
born. But I've never not, like everything I even
did up till that point was out of love, you know,
it was like everything in me is still showing
up. So I think just holding that, like the grace
I've had to give myself to be like, this has
been hard because I love him and I wouldn't,
I wouldn't change it. And it wouldn't be as hard
if you didn't love him. It's part of it, right?
If it's someone you don't love, then you can
just write it off. Right. But when it's someone
you love, then you're like, well, I'll do anything
for you. Right. Even if that means the spiral
keeps going. Totally. Yeah. Did part of you,
like with the postpartum depression and anxiety,
did part of you think that like, oh, this is
just motherhood now? This is just normal? That's
such a good question. 100 % because I never named
it. I never named it that. I mean, at my six
week appointment, I was really, really disappointed
with my six week appointment. Cause I remember
going in, honestly, I remember leaving my house.
That was like the first time I left my house
without trip for a 30 minute appointment. And
I, so it kind of felt like a big deal and I didn't,
I wasn't logically thinking this, but emotionally
I was thinking. I'm going to ask for help. And
mind you, I had a very supportive husband. Actually,
I think this is important. I should say this.
I had an incredible support system and there
are people who don't, who are having this struggle.
And that's where my heart like beats. I mean,
my heart, like for people who are like, I'm actually
in the pit with a newborn baby waking up every
night. I got messed up. My breasts hurt. And
no one's here. No one else but me. And I felt
utterly alone. The wildest part is I had a husband
who woke up and helped me nurse my baby. And
then he went back to work. And then that kind
of went down. But you know what I mean? He was
showing up for me. My sister was showing up for
me. Janessa was showing up for me. And I literally
felt so alone. It's wild how... depression can
make you feel like you're the only one who's
experiencing it and no one will understand but
then you gotta pull the enemy into that like
how much more does the enemy want to convince
you you actually are alone you know i don't know
like your fan base but like i cannot talk about
motherhood i cannot talk about my marriage and
or my experience with my kids without talking
about you know my faith and in christ but so
to answer your question sorry no you're fine
like for it. I don't, I don't know the number
of the time, but I, the, I truly only the narrative
I told myself was like, this is so easy. Suck
it up. Like what is wrong? What is wrong with
you? Because I really started to compare, like
even in third world countries, there's women
who have to, you know, walk to the hospital.
I mean, I remember like I was, tough and gritty
moms were just to convince myself to get over
my, in hindsight, to convince myself to get over
my depression. Because that was a narrative.
So I was not calling it depression. I definitely
was like, this is just motherhood. And to be
honest, I asked Connor's permission to share
this. He thought the same thing. And we had a
really difficult date night one night and conversation
where he basically was like, you have been so
negative because I had to him. How it came out,
and I feel like this might answer one of your
guys' questions down the road in this, but how
I was experiencing life externally besides just
showing up and like yada yada was at home, it
was like everything is hard. And so I think to
him it was coming off so negative, which now
I'm just like red flag, red flag, red flag. Like
if that's how I was experiencing my new baby.
I was really crying out for help. I was trying
to make an attachment attempt very poorly because
I was struggling. And now Connor will reflect
that that is one of the biggest regrets in his
life is wishing he would have seen it. But it's
not his fault because I didn't even see it. I
didn't even call it that. It was me being like.
this is what everyone does. What is wrong with
you? It's just an adjustment. Yeah. And it's
only one. I remember, again, I was with my friend
Janessa and I'm like, you have one kid and you
can't even get out the door with your one kid.
Everything was big for me. Loading up the baby.
That's a little thing. Big thing for me. Putting
the baby in the car. Oh no, he's waking up. I
forgot the bottle. Everything was big. It wasn't
big, but that's because it was... tied to my
mental health. So yes, I thought this is just
motherhood. This is just motherhood. And that's
hard. That's a hard line. Cause some of it, some
of it is, is an adjustment, but the, the mental
health experience of it. And I would say like,
when a thought goes from, this is hard to you
suck, you know, or like, this is hard and you
don't have what it takes. And the shame, like
the true self -destruction, man, like now, I
think now only with perspective, I like thank
the Lord for this experience because I'm like,
I like almost had to live it and to know that
I'm capable of hating myself, to know how to
give grace to other people in that pit. Because
now I'm like, that's actually like a sin to hate
yourself. You know, like call it what it is,
but you're supposed to put those things to death.
And I was, but day in, day out, it was like my
shame, you know, wrapped up in all this anxiety.
And I'm not saying like, oh, I was just supposed
to like show up every day and be like, oh, you're
sinning, get better. I'm like, no, I'm on medication
now, you guys. Like there is ways to get healthy,
but I'm also like there was a stronghold at the
same time that I was experiencing just the true
natural chemical. deficiencies happening in my
body, you know? Cause I started to be like, you
are the worst. I mean, I mean, I really can honestly
say I hated how I was as a mom. I hated who I
was as a wife. I think I was, my state of mind
was really hard on her marriage. I hated who
I was as a ministry worker. I truly hated myself.
So, and, but I had to keep showing up for my
kid. When was the turning point for you, I guess,
of like, okay, this isn't just, this isn't normal.
This is more than that. And I need to do something.
It should be, that should be a black and white
answer. It doesn't have to be. But I don't think
it was. So I think the, a little bit of a turning
point was, you know, six weeks. basically my
doctor, they give you that silly questionnaire.
I know like everyone on here. I mean, I say it's
silly. It's not. I, again, I've walked this,
I've talked this truth, my counselor, because
I've been like, doesn't everyone just feel a
little stressed out after I've been a kid? Like,
I remember one of the questions is like. Have
you, like it asks if you have slept or something
or like, or would you want to sleep more? I forget
the question, but I was like, oh my gosh. So
I was like, of course I'm going to be depressed
on this scale, you know? But again, I was like
telling myself a shame narrative, even with this
depression scale. I think those scales are so
like, this is actually something that came up
at my six week appointment for Zeta. Where my
midwife was like, this scale is so silly because
some people, they could score, like, because
it has a number rating and zero is like perfect
or whatever. And like, I don't know what the
numbers are, but she's like, you could score
a zero and be deeply depressed because these
aren't the symptoms you're showing. Or you could
have all of these symptoms and honestly be fine.
It's just that like, this is how your brain is
wired. Like you're not actually depressed or
anxious. It's just like the scale is so generic
that it doesn't. Cover just like the multitude
of life. That's so interesting. Well, that's
actually so interesting. Yeah, because my counselor
was actually like, well, Ambry, no, actually
like a normal state of mind or quote unquote
normal person, no, doesn't feel stressed out
by the X, Y, and Z things you said. Or that doesn't
make, I wish I had the scale in front of me.
She's like, actually, no, like that's, you know,
that's there for a reason. But I remember, I
remember that. being equal parts like illuminating,
but equal parts like disappointing that six week
appointment. Because I think it was my first
attempt to reach out for help. And they were
basically like, oh, you seem to be struggling
big time. Do you have a counselor? And I said,
I do. But when am I supposed to meet with a counselor?
Because again, I wasn't leaving my house. I was
like, it took everything in me to get to here
today. But I was like, I do have a counselor.
Like you should really start, you know. seeing
her or we could talk about medication. And at
the time I was like, no medication. And so I
left being like, so it's medication or going
back to my counselor, which I can't afford because
my paycheck is going to our nanny. And I don't
know. And I, someone would have to watch our
kid for me to do it. So I literally cried in
the car. And that's when I was like, this is
the rest of my life. That's what I thought. This
is the rest of my life. Turns out it's not. If
you start sleeping more, your brain gets a little
better. Right. That definitely helps. But I would
fast forward. I ended up getting pregnant when
Tripp was nine months. And I would say by then
he was sleeping better. So that was super helpful.
But I wouldn't say I felt like reconnected to
my body. And then I got pregnant and then I was
hormonal. So a lot of my healing is still happening
right now, but it's happened post Quinn, to be
honest. And also having my experience with Quinn.
was very illuminating of how poor my experience
was with Tripp. I've talked about my counselor
a lot. I have literally seen her like twice since
I've had a kid, but very impactful. But she said,
I remember her telling me when it came to the
discussion around going on medication, I always
had, she said, anyone who has true anxiety. always
has anxiety about going on anxiety medication.
She's like, so there, you know, so if you're
feeling anxious, you know, cause I was just like
my baby and I'm breastfeeding, of course, just
all these things like I care about. And she said,
I will never, she's like, this is not to pressure
you in any way, but I will, I'll never forget
holding my second baby in a rocking chair. And
I can't explain it, but I knew in that moment,
looking at my baby girl. I cried because of the
experience I didn't have with my first. I knew
I was present with her. And I can say verbatim
I had that experience. In the hospital with Quinn,
it was bliss. It was truly like the connection,
instant. Her heart, my heart, instant. Latching,
easy. I mean, and I just wept for my son. And
it was all the shame that I felt when I had him.
I was like, you deserve better. You deserve better.
But I wept this time being like, I missed it.
I won't get it back. I missed it. And so it was
a series over time of people, loving people in
my life, Janessa, my sister, my husband, probably
primarily, who would very gently. say, are you
considering medication? What's your next step?
What basically like kept gently coming to me
in grace, out of love being like, what are you
going to do about it kind of thing. And for a
long time it was like, I'm good. I'm good. I'm
good. I'm good. Cause my son is sleeping. Like
I'm better. I'm better. I'm better. And it was
really my sister who one day like released me.
Like I, I truly, I mean, looking back on the
conversation, she jokes, I think that she's like,
it wasn't a big deal conversation. And it was,
it, It was kind of a life -changing conversation
on the phone to me because I was pregnant with
Quinn, 22 weeks to be exact, pregnant. And I
could have justified all of my emotions then
with being hormonal and pregnant. Mind you, we
had just moved. My husband had just changed jobs.
And I remember sitting in my backyard. That we
have now. And literally you guys being like,
this is everything I've ever prayed for. Everything
I've ever wanted. I mean, I am abundantly blessed.
I cannot believe what the Lord has provided.
I cannot even have dreamt up this life. And I
don't feel happy. I cannot even appreciate it.
I literally have never, I've only wanted to be
a mom. I have a good husband. Like I have a backyard.
I have a backyard. Like I never thought I would
own a home. We rented my whole life. I was raised
with a single mom. I was like, oh yeah, homeowning
is for rich people who are whatever. Like I'm
supposed to say, I was literally like, I am not
happy. Something's missing. And it was after
that night, my sister called me and it was the
spirit of God himself that he knew I needed to
talk to her then coming off of that raw spot
because she, basically was just affirmed. This
is not you. And finally somebody to release me,
to make me feel like, thank God this isn't me.
I literally, cause I kept showing up for almost
a year. Like this is now the new me. And literally
someone finally said, this isn't you. And said,
I know Ambry and I know who she is and this isn't
you. And it is okay for a season to get help.
If you need to, cause she said, you keep saying,
you know, there's a lot to this, but she said,
you keep saying you want to get your workout.
You want to start working out your, you know,
you want to start being a better cook at home
and you want to make meals for trip and you want
to, you know, do more date nights with your husband.
You want to show up in the world better basically.
And she said, you can't do any of that if you
don't get your mind right. And she was so right.
She was so right. She said, if it's just for
a season, because she said, there's a risk reward
here with getting on medication while you're
pregnant. I was really anxious about taking medicine
while I had a baby in my belly because I just
didn't, I don't know. But she said, well, high,
high stress on a baby is a risk and medication
might be a risk. And the reward of medication
might be, you might be able to start doing stuff
for yourself. And the reward of not being on
medication might be that your baby doesn't have
a birth defect, but no one can predict a birth
defect anyways. And there's no evidence to show
that. And so I'm here to say as a testimony,
I've been on medication now since my daughter
was 22 weeks in my womb. But it was somebody
seeing me and seeing that this wasn't me. And
it released me to say, okay, then I need help
because I need to get back to me. And here's
the thing, the depression medicine wasn't a magic
pill. It still isn't. I like still experience
anxiety. I literally was having a hard time breathing
this morning. Like I still experience these things,
you guys, but it allowed my brain to quiet a
little bit. enough to where I didn't start my
day at a seven and then a tantrum would quickly
get it to a 10. And then the rest, it's hard.
I start my day at a two, you know, like I can
start my day at a two and I can like use some
more logic instead of my brain going straight
to fight or flight. And it truly is, it was a
tool. And so that, and then my, my whole testimony,
which now I've taken up so much time, but is
the grace of God and I mean, I can talk about
like the abandonment I felt from the Lord. I
remember thinking like when you become a mom,
oh, I bet I'll understand the love of God so
much more because I'll have this love for this
kid. So the love of God is just, and I remember
sitting in my chair, breastfeeding trip at 2
a .m. I remember I've never been more tired in
my life. I remember being so tired I wanted to
throw up. Like, I know that's a weird thing to
say, but I was like, I feel sick, but I'm not
sick. I want to puke because I can't imagine
doing this again in two hours, but I'm about
to do it again in two hours. And I remember telling
God, I'm like, you were supposed to be here.
And how are you allowing me to not sleep? And,
you know, at that moment, all his fault. Because
how could you let someone struggle and not sleep?
And that only now, right? This is like everyone's
story with any ounce of perspective to look back
and to be like, oh my gosh, my God is in the
valleys and he's on the mountaintops and he never
promised us one or the other, you know? It's
literally like the David and Goliath, like that.
That experience of motherhood for me was like
David harp playing for the king and shepherding
sheep. It was all like, I still don't know what
the Lord is preparing for me, but I am like fully
trusting that that season of my life was not
like lost on him or void or, or like a waste.
It was like, man, you prepared in me and instilled
in me like something to be able. either, whether
it's happening now or showing up right now, like
to, I don't even know. I don't even know. I just
trust it because I know it's a promise, you know,
and I'm not going to be the king of a nation.
So thank God. But right now I'm just like, I
think that that's what keeps me going now. And
with the help of medication and the support of
my family and the support of community, which
is so important. Like now I can show up day in,
day out on the Monday things that we all know
nobody sees. Like nobody sees the 10 times you're
patient, but everyone hears about the one time
you snap. You know, nobody sees like the mental
preparation of the food, but everyone sees like
the beautiful meal on Instagram. Like nobody
sees the behind the things, but like those are
faithful things to the Lord. the showing up with
what he's given me currently right now in my
season and through asking for help from my, the
people that I love. Like, I think now I've been
able to be like, okay, Lord, this isn't actually
what I pictured, like full circle going back
to beginning. This isn't what I pictured for
my life. I thought everyone said I had a calling
on my life and I'd be in ministry and I, whatever.
I'm like, this isn't ministry. But then now I'm
like, oh my gosh, like I'm in a valley of preparation.
Like my day in, day out mundane life is so valuable
to you, you know? And it doesn't feel valuable
every day. It actually feels like some days I'm
like, I wish I was working. And I hate to say
that because I also don't want to go back to
work. You guys carry a freaking different load.
There's days where I'm like, I want to eat lunch
by myself. And I want to drive in my car and
listen to a podcast. And I want someone to be
developing me. And I want to talk to adults.
And I don't want to be overstimulated. But at
the same time, it's like wherever you're planted,
whatever he's put in front of you, it's like
you sow that seed faithfully, meaning like you
literally just show up and he's just not going
to waste it. He's just not going to waste it.
I don't know if there was a question. I don't
know. That was a good answer. I don't know. Well,
I don't even know if that ends it. Well, okay,
so going back a little bit, you said you get
home from the hospital, everything's crazy, everyone
can tell you're not okay. Do you think in that
moment they were all just like, she's overwhelmed?
Or do you think there was like a deeper something's
going on? I think that the same is my experience.
Only now could they look back. Okay, so maybe
in the moment they were like, she's just overwhelmed.
Again, I think one of the hard things about anything
like this, even if it's a second kid, is, oh,
well, having a new baby is hard. Right. And so
the first time around you're like, I've never
had a baby before, so this is overwhelming. And
then I would imagine even with like... Other
kids are like, well, I've never had a second.
I've never had a third. Whenever it happens for
you, you're like, it's just overwhelming because,
you know, you have this excuse. Yes. And so then
it seems like at least in your experience, your
support system also is kind of on that train
of thought of like, well, it's just overwhelming
right now. Totally. And in that moment, that
example, like the content, the tasks. were overwhelming.
And that's where your support system, it is important
to show up for people in task. It is important
to show up for a new mom and to call the lactation
consultant or to help them or show them how to
work their pump or to bring them a meal. Those
things are important because it adds to the mental
load, but they didn't know what I didn't know,
which was like, that was the beginning of like
a mental... stronghold like a mental spiral of
like because I couldn't feed my baby and so it
was the stress of figuring out I needed my support
system to help me figure out how but also my
baby was crying and so my mom heart was like
you're not good enough you know and that was
deeper and I don't know if there was anything
they could have done then but I think now like
I've thought through like I think Erica you're
getting I think you guys have asked me like how
would you show up for someone now and what's
funny about that is I think I tried to show up
for that like how I thought I needed to be showed
up for, for my first friend who had a baby after
me. And she was in bliss. She was good. Like
I, oh my gosh, I was like, and then this is how
you work your pump. And then here's this meal.
And if you want seven more and like love bomb,
basically. And she was like, this is like the
easiest thing I've ever done. And that was hard
for me. And that was not her fault. That was
hard for me. And so then I was just like. oh,
this is just me, you know. But I'm talking about
it today because I know, A, statistically, it's
not just me. It's actually very prevalent. But
B, I've had a lot of vulnerable people like share.
Every time I go in for someone, every single
mom reciprocates and can relate, even if they've
had a blissful experience. every single mom I've
ever opened up to about this can relate in some
way. Oh, for sure. So I would say showing up
for people, I think it's important for you to
know your role in their life, like inner circle
or outer circle kind of. Absolutely. Like there's
a girl in my Bible study right now. So we're
literally in Bible study together, but we both
know and agree like we're kind of outer circle
because we kind of were placed in the same Bible
study. We have inner circle girls in that group,
but she's probably one of my outer circle girls
and we do Bible study together. You know what
I mean? She just had a baby and she's a first
-time mom. Like I'm bringing her a meal. I'm
texting her to see how breastfeeding is going.
It's actually going hard. So she's meeting with
a lactation consultant. I sent her some recommendations.
I'm going to follow up. If and when I've had
girls in my inner circle, my inner circle, it's
like you need to know. An inner circle girl.
You need to know when it's time to step back
or barge the doors down. But I would say almost
more so barge the doors down because if you're
not going to do it, nobody else will. No one
knows me better in this life than Connor Sheehan,
my husband. And even he didn't know to barge
the doors down. Because in some ways, I was being
more vulnerable with my mom friends because I
felt like... I don't know if Connor can relate
to this experience. And it turns out actually
he couldn't. He could love me and support me,
but it was like my counselor and my sister and
people had to pull this stuff out of me, people
who could relate to motherhood. So it was like
it really took one of my friends and my sister
to knock the door down and come in. I don't want
to say that I needed rescuing and saving, and
obviously there's a fine line there, like that's
not your job. And when someone just needs a counselor,
they need a counselor. But there is a time to
kind of like pull somebody out and hold weight
that they can't carry and to do what my sister
said, say, hey, this is not you. You know, like
if this is just a season, then let's let it be
a season. But let's put a time frame on it, because
if it's still a season, by the time we get to
the end of that time frame, it's not a season
anymore. And then you need some help. And if
you need me to help you get help, then I'll be
that support system for you. Because it, because
like Laura, you asked such a good question about
that. Like, because I, I think when you're really
in it, you're not waking up every day going,
I'm depressed. I'm depressed. I think if you
are, you're not truly depressed. You're just
narcissistic. But if you're, you know what I
mean? Like, cause you're, I'm really like, this
is hard. Something's wrong with me. Something's
wrong. What is wrong with me? You're the worst
mom. This is just how it's supposed to be. Or
this is new motherhood. This is just the new
experience when really it was like, oh, clinically,
no. Like from a counseling perspective, no, you're
depressed. From my front inner circle speaking
into me and just being like, this isn't you.
It took a lot of convincing. So I think if someone's
really, really stuck, you're going to have to
show up over and over and over and over and over
again. It's not going to be a one -time thing.
And I do think that's very important. And there's
a lot, turns out there's like a lot of resources
out there, especially for new moms that are like
totally free. But guess what? New moms don't
literally have the time of day to look into it.
For sure. Or care about that. That's just like
a basic postpartum experience. If you're like
in the steep depression, then like everything
is the impossible task, right? You're like, oh,
even if I'm sitting here breastfeeding. On my
phone, the thought of like Googling lactation
consultants or, you know, whatever that is. Yes,
everything is too much. Support group. Yeah.
And then getting my insurance card. Where's my
insurance card? I don't even know where it is.
Do I have one? Yeah. Literally. So, and then
it's like, but I'm supposed to start making dinner
soon and then I should probably be a normal person
and meet up with some friends. So I guess I should
probably, oh, but then I have to load up my car
and then I have to actually make it work around
nap time, which is coming up soon. So I, I mean.
Yeah. It's just everything. Then I have to pump
before I'll pump in the car. And then you add
your guys' jobs to it of like this, that's a,
that's a different kind of load. So yes, someone
else to be like. You know what would be practically
helpful? Someone else to say, I have a pen and
paper. You write down everything you have to
do or think you have to do. I'll write it down
for you. I'll write it down for you. You just
say it out loud. I'll write it down. You get
this list out. And I think someone with a sound
mind. who's not in the thick of it can help you
say, you don't need to think about that. You
don't need to do that. The baseboards don't actually
need to be cleaned right now. There you go. You
do not need to, that is not important. Let's
get to a top three important thing. Okay, your
mental health. All right. We need to go, whatever.
Your baby's not latching or nursing. That's super
important. How about I look up the list of three
people? It's just like, get on paper what is
in their head. And also I think I've had someone
do that for me. It's really helpful as the person
who has all this stuff going on your head to
be like, oh, once you put it on paper, you read
it. This is just like a counseling 101 tool.
You put it on paper and you read it and you go,
oh my gosh, why am I thinking about all that?
And all of those thoughts have, external secondary
thoughts to them that cause more spiraling. Like
what's most important truly. This is like literally
why the Lord says, take your thoughts captive,
like stop them before they get secondary. It's
too overwhelming. Like no one can hold that many
thought patterns. You're not supposed to do that.
So there's a lot, a lot there. So sounds like
Connor didn't, couldn't really like figure this
out. Um, do you think he ever like did realize
it or did you have to tell him like something's
not okay? Yeah, no, this is a hard, this is like
a hard part because I can't, I think I shared
about our date night and he basically told me
I was being really negative, which really was
like a big trigger for me to be like, to shut
down. Cause I was like, okay, I can't, if I can't
share this with him, I can't share this with
anybody because I, again, I just have to suck
it up. And essentially without saying it, he
said that. He said, life is hard, this is hard,
and we need to just keep going kind of thing.
There's truth to that when you're not depressed.
There's truth to that, you know? So again, it
just reinforced this narrative that something's
wrong with me and whatever. And he is a very
loving man. He just wanted me to get better,
and he was trying to be like, can you help yourself
do something about it? So I would say it took...
yeah again not an overnight thing probably that
doctor's appointment of like hey I don't think
I'm doing so well followed by a counseling appointment
later that was like oh I'm like now I trust my
counselor so I'm definitely not doing well but
I don't know what to do about it and that's where
he kind of began to gently say like it doesn't
have to be medication. At the time he was actually
like, maybe I think it's working out for you.
Cause it's a big passion of mine. So I think
he was like, I think you really need, and he's
really tried to like rearrange his schedule so
that I could start going to the gym. So I think
he was trying to help me fix me, you know? And
my, but my sister was right. Like you can't do
any of those things till you get your mind right.
And so he was one of the gentle people to say
like, can I help you get on Medicaid? Like, what
can I do to. Always, always saying, what can
I do? Like, what do you need? But I would honestly
say, like, the hard truth of this, and I think
he would agree with me, like, is that once we
had our second, I think that's when he had, like,
a realization because he experienced having our
second as almost like how I experienced having
our first. My whole life flipped upside down.
Like, I didn't even talk about, like, literally.
working my dream job not working my job I mean
there's a whole identity shift there like yeah
so that like and then my friends were there like
my whole community like my and then I became
a mom this was like a new foreign thing and I
was thought I wasn't a good one so my whole world
changed with Tripp and now we're one -on -one
and I think he experienced like oh like I'm not
just the dad this I'm gonna say this and it's
I'm saying it kind of lightly but I'm not just
like the dad who goes to work You know, my wife
has the easy job. And then I come home. And then
I parent. I think he was like, I'm a dad. Period.
We're parents. We're co -parents together all
the time through the night. Because truly with
Tripp, I was doing like a lot of the night shifts.
And to me even, I was like, it makes sense because
I'm staying at home. But now I'm like, nope.
You'll always be up at night, buddy. Like he,
I think he just, and he experienced this like,
okay, how am I going to still be the Connor who
shows up to work? The important, you know, sales
guy, like this, you know, and like full time
dad too. And supportive husband to my wife who's
struggling. And I think seeing me, I don't think
I'm answering your question right now in this
moment, because I'm realizing he saw me with
Quinn in the hospital. And he reflects realizing
how different it was. It took that image for
both of us, my experience, and then hit that
image for him to be like, oh, this is how it
was supposed to be. This is a different person
almost. You're a different mom with her. Or I
think part of it's hard to know, like, am I a
different mom now that I've had two so it's just
easier? Or like I've been doing, you know. Like
she's not foreign. You're more confident. Yeah.
Like ways. Yeah. Yeah. Or is it like, I don't
know, but I was hormonally balanced, you know,
like both. Both and. But he saw it and he reflected
like he has said sorry a lot, honestly, for like
how he didn't show up. And it's hard because
I. don't know what I would have asked him to
do differently because I didn't know how to ask
for help. And you don't know what you don't know,
right? Right, right. And now, only now can I
have gratitude for that season, truthfully. But
I would almost say, man, it takes a mom. It takes
a mom to call it out in you. It does. So what
is something you wish you knew before having
a baby? Before having Tripp and really just before
this postpartum depression experience for you?
Oh, I think like there's an obvious answer that
maybe I wish, like practically, I wish I would
have learned more about breastfeeding than I
did about labor. Like labor was such a short
part of it. Like practically, maybe I wished
I learned more about, I've heard postpartum depression,
but you're just everyone. I was just like, that's
what other people get. It's just never you. It's
just like, or like I'd heard about colicky babies
and I'm like, My baby will never. Yeah. Yeah.
Like some babies are colicky, but, and also without
being a parent, I think I was like judgy. I think
I was like, probably not feeding them. Right.
Yeah. Or you're probably not burping them. Right.
Yeah. Just stupid, stupid stuff. I think so.
Those are all fair answers, but they're not sitting
well with me because I think what I wish I had
known, I think anything, if not, then that's
fine too. I think all I wish is that I, been
more open -handed open -minded and less less
like birth plan I think like I would have been
freed up to be like whatever this looks like
whatever this looks like we could have a baby
with a disability but that didn't cross my mind
you know because it doesn't unless it happens
like I wish I would have been more surrendered
like whatever this looks like We're going to
take this season day by day, season by season.
I truly had a little bit of a blissful image.
And that's just my story. I don't think that's
everyone's. I just, I had this strange approach
or maybe experience with all the babies in my
past. So I think that's kind of a broad and silly.
answer. I mean, there's almost a level when you
are someone like you with, you have lots of experience
with babies. You have several nieces and nephews,
I believe, you know, friends with kids, like
said you were a nanny. There's almost like an
arrogance. And I feel like I can relate to this
too. Like I've done this before. I know it's
going to be harder because I'm the mom, but like.
I know what I'm doing. Yeah. And like, there's
some practical pieces to that. That's true. Right.
You're like, I've changed a diaper before. I've
used a bottle before. I've, you know, so there
are some practical pieces that are absolutely
true. That's so true. But it's not the same at
all. And cause your baby's different. Yeah. Your
baby's different. Even just in like a. different
human standpoint but then also in your experience
of how you take care of them and your marital
experience of doing it together like then you
bring two messy people two sinful broken people
into raising up a little kid who's also you don't
know yet they're still developing you don't even
know who they're gonna be or what the yeah like
the unknown unknown like how are you supposed
to have a plan for that truly yeah like you can
prepare I really think you can prepare but to
not have a plan. I think maybe what I would have
done is maybe had Connor and I done more work
truthfully around when this baby comes or if
this, because we were just like, well, take the
bull by the horn. Like we will figure this out
together. And truly we have, you know, we've,
and we're in marital counseling right now. Like
I, and not because we're falling apart, but because
we want to make sure that we communicate better.
Like we're just, we're really just for a season.
And I'm like so proud of us, but I think a lot
of this communication failure happened year one
with the baby. It's all stemming from that. And
so I'm like, I kind of wish we would have done
more work on us before we had a baby. Yeah. And
more work on how can we take care of each other?
Because now we're doing it. It took us three
years. And now you need a babysitter instead
of doing it beforehand. Exactly. Good call. Yeah.
And now we're like, we're going to put baby making
on hold for a while. Not making. He would hate
that. We're going to put babies on hold for a
while, right? And every day he's like, but he
could have another baby. And I'm like. You're
like, okay, if you carry it this time. I will
literally murder you. Right now. No. Well, the
crazy part is we will have more babies. Isn't
that wild? Yeah. You can have experiences like
these and be like, I don't know. I still love
them. Yeah. Still want more. What? Motherhood
is wild. All right. And then one last question.
What would you tell another mom? Like if she's
in the depths right now, maybe she's where you
are, where she would never name what she's in
as postpartum depression, but she's just really,
really struggling. What would you tell her in
this moment? It's going to sound trite for a
second, but it's, it is a season. Okay. So days
feel like years, but the years really are days.
But I hated that when I was in it because. My
days are years right now. Just know that you
will sleep again. You will sleep again, you know,
and you will eat different again or better. But
right now, pizza nights are okay. Rotisserie
chicken is okay. Mac and cheese is okay. Like
overnight oats is good. And having people take
those biggest burdens that are outside of that
child are okay. Like outside of that kid, because
that is your full -time responsibility. If you
are stressed about the laundry and you're stressed
about the food and you're stressed about like
the packing of the bag and the car and the restocking
of everything or like that is something, take
that. off of your plate, like delegate that one
thing or two things or three things, because
right now it's okay that you're nap trapped as
long as you have your water bottle and you know,
a snack and it's okay that like, it's not fair
and it sucks, but you're only going to be up
at night for a little while. They're going to
sleep. They're going to sleep again. It's okay
to nap while they're napping. It's okay. Let
yourself off the mat. You're never going to remember
how clean your house was. When you look back
on that season, you're never going to remember
like the Instagram picture of the meal you made
or even the Instagram picture of your perfect
baby. You're just going to remember like how
tiny they were. Like literally looking back on
pictures, what a blur that season was for me.
But I'm like, he was so tiny. That's what I think.
I'm like, he was so sweet and tiny. I'm like,
no, that was the hardest season of my life. And
that's what I remember. So just let yourself.
Take a nap on the couch with your kid when you
can. And when you can't, I've heard someone say
to me like, your baby's either going to cry with
me or he's going to cry with you. And if someone
steps in to take that crying baby for you, but
you still think you have to figure out the crying
baby, that person's right. They're either going
to cry with me or they're going to cry with you.
Let them take the baby. Let them take the baby
and go outside. And probably the best practical
tool is like teaching yourself how to calm your
nervous system just to tell your nervous system
that you're not being chased by a bear. So like
truly when you're too overstimulated to show
up for your babies, this might be more practical
with toddlers because they're so demanding, but
my goodness. There's practical things like freaking
holding an ice cube. You can set the baby down
in a safe spot and go outside for a minute. It's
okay if they cry. You can tap both your shoulders
or put two sticky notes on the wall and look
back and forth just to reconnect your brain to
think back to logical thinking brain rather than
fight or flight. Like there's practical, you
can dunk your face in cold water. Smell peppermint.
I've literally done all of these things. I'm
taking notes over here. Okay, just to calm. It's
just to bring your body into your brain and say,
oh, not being chased by a bear. Crying babies
feel like that sometimes. It's literally a form
of torture and war that they put headphones on
people with crying babies. And the top tier Marines,
this is on a Netflix show, break with the crying
babies. So just so you know, moms. It's very
overstimulating to have a crying baby, especially
if you have a colicky one who cries all the time.
But just know it's okay to walk away because
no one can handle that for too long, and you
need to calm your nervous system down too and
remind yourself, I'm not being chased by a bear,
but this is really, really overstimulating. I
have to help this baby, but nothing I'm doing
is helping, so I need to go help myself, and
that's okay too. That's actually more than okay.
That's important. Yeah, that's really good. Well,
thank you for sharing so, so much about postpartum
depression and your experience. And I just remember
like when I was postpartum with Colt, you were
one of the first people to come over and you
brought me lunch and breakfast for the next day.
And then just you sat there and you held my baby
while I ate. And it was like, I will remember
that forever because it just was exactly what
I needed. Good. With my husband going back to
work. And yeah, I think that you are just such
an advocate for postpartum moms and you really
showed up for me. So I appreciate that. That's
good. Yeah. Good. I think if anything, like.
If this isn't utilized for something, even if
it's like showing up for one single mom, then
it's like, why would I, why did I even walk through
that? So it's like, take your pain, make it into
something that's actually worthwhile. Even though
every day I still struggle with my stuff, you
know, but I would never want another mom in my
circle to go unseen in that, in that space. So
it's kind of my, my motive. is like okay you're
a new mom like just know you don't you can say
no to me but I'll just check in I'm gonna be
there I'm gonna check in I'm gonna check in at
a minimum you know yeah so was there anything
else you want to share before we wrap up I'll
share that uh literally only two nights ago my
husband was so sleep deprived so we're still
in the sleep deprivation by the way and delirious
that he woke up and said, Ambry, what are you
doing? And mind you, I was sleeping right next
to him. And I was like, what do you mean? And
then he shined his cell phone light at the window
and he's like, oh, I thought you were standing
looking out the window. And then I was like,
what? Do we need to call a priest and bless our
house? He went back to sleep. And the whole night
I couldn't sleep because I was like, did you
just see? And then the next morning he was like,
yeah, I thought you were like contemplating life,
just staring out the window. I was like, so you
saw something? He's like, no, I was like truly
hallucinating. I'm like, was so tired. I was
like, well, I couldn't sleep the rest of the
night. So that probably was another mom moment.
Just real. but wild sleep deprivation is a wild
yes it is like people compare it to being like
on acid it's why it is because you have to i
mean how we're supposed to sleep so yeah i will
also say like separate of this. It's so funny
because Laura, I think originally I was supposed
to be on a podcast for like self -care. And then
I think I shared like, I'm just now starting
that. And we were like, let's not talk about
that. But I will say again, going back to the
mom who's struggling and this being a season,
like, okay, I have a 60 month old and a three
month old. That might not be your story, but
I'm like, I go to the gym now every day with
them. I take them with me and I have one hour
to myself and there's childcare and I'm okay
with the child. childcare. Like, and I, I'm with
my friends and my community. Like, so it's been
three years. My son's almost three, like I spent
three years and that's like the first routine
I've really figured out for myself. And it, before
this, I would say it really wasn't working. And
I tried. going to the rec center. I tried doing
5 a .m. morning classes. I tried doing 7 p .m.
evening classes. I tried childcare classes. I
tried night childcare. It just had to be this
season that I was in. And it's finally working.
And now that it's working, it's hard to me picture
my days without it, truthfully. So I'm like,
just know like if it's not sticking, like it
was so defeating, but I'm like, you will get,
there'll be a season where it doesn't have to
be the gym. It can be like your passion point,
but like something for you. and something where
you can have a break. I think that most gyms,
you could go to the rec center and not work out.
You could just put your kids in the childcare
and go sit and finish a cup of coffee. Like just
something where you can have just an hour of
time separate of meeting a need and just sipping
on coffee. You try it now. If it's not sticking,
don't get defeated. Just keep trying, keep trying,
keep trying because you will have a season where
you'll be able to do that. for sure. Really good.
I'm taking all the advice. Well, you guys are
in it. You guys are in it. You're in it too.
I mean, I mean, no, I'm seeing more of the light.
I think, I think I'm seeing more like if my kids
would sleep, I mean, but no, you get, you, you
have, that's, and she just gave her baby a bottle
this whole class, this whole podcast. And like,
you're in it, you're meeting a lot of needs.
So that's hard. Thank you guys so much for having
me. Thank you. Well, we like to wrap up with
our win of the week. Do you have one you would
like to share? I don't know if it's going to
sound holier than thou, but it was a huge win.
Tripp recites the armor of God at night now.
He won't let us pray for him at night because
praying now means it's time to go to sleep. So
we're trying to figure out when to pray because
he literally hates praying because he doesn't
want to go to sleep. But he will put on his armor.
And so this week he does it every night. He looks
in the mirror and I say the helmet and he goes,
of salvation. the breastplate of righteousness,
the belt of truth, shoes of peace, sword of the
spirit, shield of faith. And I say, now we're
ready. And I thought every time we say we're
ready for battle, but for some reason, and then
I say, now we're ready. And he says for bed.
And I was like, no, that's true. We are ready
for bed. And I was like, okay, something's stuck.
You know, like we only, we only did that a few
times, but he, he listened. So I was like, that
was a big deal. That's super sweet. That's so
sweet. My win of the week. I don't think I shared
this yet. If I did, I apologize. You know, mom
brain. Right. My win. So we we have just recently
started like. praying with Colt at mealtime.
Like we always pray before bed, but now at mealtime,
we've been praying with him before we eat. And
he has like been reminding us and prompting us
and he'll like sit there and fold his hands and
then he'll go, mommy. And then I'm like, okay,
I got my hands folded. And then daddy, daddy
fold hands. And then he'll fold his hands. And
then it's always the same. We say, dear Jesus,
thank you for our food. Thank you for our family.
Amen. And he'll like say food. family and then
we say amen and he signs amen and mind we pray
multiple times through the throughout the meal
now like seven or eight times yeah just whenever
he wants he stops he folds his hands and we start
all over again and it is it is so sweet and i'm
like same thing it's like okay something yeah
something is sticking and like this is how we
teach our kids about jesus yeah and that is like
it's so cool to just see him start to pick up
on those little things. And I'm like, okay, we're
doing, I mean, we're doing something right. And
all the chaos and all the frustration that we
feel every single day when he does this, it's
like, okay, something is ticking and something
is going right in his brain. Yeah, yeah. He's
like, I want this again and again. That's really
cute. What about you, Erica? So mine, speaking
of just feeling like a terrible mother. We just
had a day the other day. You're welcome. No,
we just had, like, a day the other day. And it's
one of those days where it's like, like, I know
I wasn't at my best. I know I was probably hard
on myself, but it was like, I was not being patient.
I, you know, was very short -tempered, all of
the things. And then Lloyd just had, like, a
terrible time going down for bed on top of all
that, naturally. But the second time he got up
at night was, like, right when we were going
to bed. And so Stuart was like, okay, I'll go
take care of him. You get ready for bed. I was
like, great. And then, like, a few minutes later,
Stuart comes and knocks on the bathroom door,
and he has Lloyd, and he's like, he just wanted
you. And I was like, I felt like a terrible mom
today, but, like, clearly I'm doing something
right because he wanted me this time, which was
really sweet. So that's my win of the week. Oh,
I love that. Good job, guys. Well, thank you
for listening to No Manual, and thank you for
being on Ambry. We really appreciate it. Thank
you for having me. Great conversation. And I
think a lot of moms will relate and feel really
seen by what you said. Good. I hope so. Well,
thank you for listening. We hope you enjoyed
and tune in next week. Please rate, review, subscribe,
all the things. And we will see you soon. See
you soon. Bye.