WEBVTT 00:00:00.270 --> 00:00:03.209 Hi moms and no manual listeners. Before we get 00:00:03.209 --> 00:00:05.330 started today, we wanted to take a moment to 00:00:05.330 --> 00:00:07.690 let you know that our conversation this week 00:00:07.690 --> 00:00:10.369 is going to involve the topics of child loss 00:00:10.369 --> 00:00:13.130 and suicide. We hope that you listen with discretion. 00:00:24.910 --> 00:00:27.629 Hi everyone, welcome back to No Manual, a momcast. 00:00:27.769 --> 00:00:31.390 My name is Laura, this is Erica, and we're so 00:00:31.390 --> 00:00:35.270 happy that you are listening today and hopefully 00:00:35.270 --> 00:00:38.270 tuning in on your drive to work. Maybe you're 00:00:38.270 --> 00:00:40.530 at work, maybe you're at home with your kids. 00:00:40.810 --> 00:00:43.590 Yeah, glad you're listening today. And we have 00:00:43.590 --> 00:00:47.090 a very special guest here with us, Stephanie. 00:00:47.770 --> 00:00:51.329 And Stephanie, we'd love for you to introduce 00:00:51.329 --> 00:00:55.119 yourself. My name is Stephanie and I have lived 00:00:55.119 --> 00:00:58.780 in Colorado for 27 years and I'm originally from 00:00:58.780 --> 00:01:01.979 New Mexico. I've been married for 27 years and 00:01:01.979 --> 00:01:06.980 I have four children, a 22 -year -old son in 00:01:06.980 --> 00:01:11.459 chiropractic school and I have a 13 -year -old 00:01:11.459 --> 00:01:15.379 son and a 12 -year -old daughter and I lost a 00:01:15.379 --> 00:01:18.019 daughter four years ago to suicide so she would 00:01:18.019 --> 00:01:21.319 be 21 at this point. So currently I teach Spanish 00:01:21.319 --> 00:01:24.480 part -time to high schoolers. So we like to start 00:01:24.480 --> 00:01:27.879 each episode with a mom moment. Laura, do you 00:01:27.879 --> 00:01:32.519 want me to start? As Cruz is choking. Okay, I'll 00:01:32.519 --> 00:01:35.280 start with my mom moment then. So this week, 00:01:35.359 --> 00:01:38.040 and this is actually not just this week, so we've 00:01:38.040 --> 00:01:41.099 made an effort not to show our kids music because 00:01:41.099 --> 00:01:43.280 we don't like kids music, so we don't want to 00:01:43.280 --> 00:01:47.439 be annoyed. So we've shown Lloyd all sorts of 00:01:47.439 --> 00:01:50.319 stuff, and the song that he has fixated on is 00:01:50.319 --> 00:01:52.560 Barbara Ann by the Beach Boys. That's amazing. 00:01:52.799 --> 00:01:55.900 So he'll say, ba -ba -ba, and that's the way 00:01:55.900 --> 00:01:58.329 he requests Barbara Ann. At this point, like 00:01:58.329 --> 00:02:00.390 I have a count each day for like how many times 00:02:00.390 --> 00:02:02.870 we actually play it. Today we played it three 00:02:02.870 --> 00:02:05.390 different times, but he'll request it all day 00:02:05.390 --> 00:02:07.590 long. That's the only song he wants to listen 00:02:07.590 --> 00:02:10.189 to is Barbara Ann by the Beach Boys. I mean, 00:02:10.229 --> 00:02:12.669 there could be worse. There could be much worse. 00:02:12.930 --> 00:02:16.009 I'm taking it. Yeah. And it's like four minutes 00:02:16.009 --> 00:02:18.889 long. So at least like if it repeats, it's not 00:02:18.889 --> 00:02:22.430 every 30 seconds. So I'm taking that. Yeah, that's 00:02:22.430 --> 00:02:27.870 fair. My mom moment. So I'm like fully in adjusting 00:02:27.870 --> 00:02:33.509 to two under two right now. And with that, as 00:02:33.509 --> 00:02:36.669 you both know, comes a lot of sleep deprivation. 00:02:37.250 --> 00:02:41.330 And really my mom moment is so Colt, who's our 00:02:41.330 --> 00:02:45.189 oldest, is not sleeping well. I think he's like 00:02:45.189 --> 00:02:48.449 regressing because of this big change and just. 00:02:49.819 --> 00:02:52.020 having a lot of separation anxiety in the night 00:02:52.020 --> 00:02:57.460 too, poor buddy. But I was talking to one of 00:02:57.460 --> 00:02:59.580 my friends about it and she's like, how, like, 00:02:59.680 --> 00:03:03.199 how has it been with sleep? And I was like, you 00:03:03.199 --> 00:03:08.199 know, it's not terrible this time around because 00:03:08.199 --> 00:03:12.460 I feel like we never got out of sleep deprivation 00:03:12.460 --> 00:03:16.099 from our first. And then you just kind of, you 00:03:16.099 --> 00:03:19.479 just go into it again. And so I think like, My 00:03:19.479 --> 00:03:22.699 body is just like used to the sleep deprivation 00:03:22.699 --> 00:03:24.879 and waking up like every two or three hours. 00:03:25.219 --> 00:03:28.520 And it's like when I finally get up for the morning, 00:03:28.620 --> 00:03:31.439 it's like I know I just like I chug my coffee 00:03:31.439 --> 00:03:35.479 and I just move on with my day. And yeah, really 00:03:35.479 --> 00:03:38.659 my mom moment is just like sleep deprivation 00:03:38.659 --> 00:03:41.539 is hard, but it hasn't been as hard this time. 00:03:41.580 --> 00:03:43.939 I don't know if you feel that way. Zeta's been 00:03:43.939 --> 00:03:46.000 a better sleeper, but yeah, I think you're more 00:03:46.000 --> 00:03:48.879 used to it. Yeah. Stephanie, what about you? 00:03:48.900 --> 00:03:51.039 What's your mom moment? Well, I guess I would 00:03:51.039 --> 00:03:54.060 say mine was I walked in today and had given 00:03:54.060 --> 00:03:56.439 you a picture of my family and you gave me my 00:03:56.439 --> 00:03:59.139 mom moment that I have a child. Actually, I have 00:03:59.139 --> 00:04:02.719 two that hate to have their picture taken. And 00:04:02.719 --> 00:04:06.060 so in almost all of our family pictures, somebody 00:04:06.060 --> 00:04:08.560 looks mad as standing off to the side with arms 00:04:08.560 --> 00:04:12.460 crossed. And so it just is just a funny thing 00:04:12.460 --> 00:04:15.610 that all of our memories. You can just see who's 00:04:15.610 --> 00:04:17.350 in the bad mood that day standing off to the 00:04:17.350 --> 00:04:20.430 side. And I just think someday they're going 00:04:20.430 --> 00:04:22.490 to look back on those pictures and hopefully 00:04:22.490 --> 00:04:26.329 laugh at how hard they were to get a picture. 00:04:26.410 --> 00:04:28.730 I really don't have good family pictures because 00:04:28.730 --> 00:04:32.009 it is so hard to get them to smile and engage 00:04:32.009 --> 00:04:36.290 in a picture. That's funny. It's something that 00:04:36.290 --> 00:04:39.899 I could just look and laugh at now. Yeah. So 00:04:39.899 --> 00:04:41.800 Stephanie, you introduced your family a little 00:04:41.800 --> 00:04:44.220 bit. You have four kids. Tell us more about your 00:04:44.220 --> 00:04:48.439 family and just your family dynamic. Well, we 00:04:48.439 --> 00:04:51.899 had our kids, our first two really close together. 00:04:51.980 --> 00:04:54.740 They were 13 months apart. And so it was like 00:04:54.740 --> 00:04:56.819 we had two and then a big long break and then 00:04:56.819 --> 00:05:01.120 two more after that. And so I feel like each 00:05:01.120 --> 00:05:03.860 of them kind of buddied up, which was great. 00:05:06.220 --> 00:05:10.639 Well, so my oldest son is, he's super funny, 00:05:10.779 --> 00:05:15.660 but he is not extroverted at all, very shy. And 00:05:15.660 --> 00:05:18.319 so he's very comfortable in our family. But if 00:05:18.319 --> 00:05:22.899 we go out into a crowd, he's very quiet, very 00:05:22.899 --> 00:05:24.879 hard to get to know, which is so funny to see 00:05:24.879 --> 00:05:29.019 the contrast because he's so funny. But I don't 00:05:29.019 --> 00:05:30.579 know that he knows. No one gets to see it. Yeah, 00:05:30.600 --> 00:05:35.189 no one gets to see how funny he is. His journey's 00:05:35.189 --> 00:05:37.350 been really interesting to see him try to find 00:05:37.350 --> 00:05:39.670 his way and what he wants to do. So he's gonna 00:05:39.670 --> 00:05:41.810 be a chiropractor now. So that's so fun because 00:05:41.810 --> 00:05:44.829 he's benefited from that his whole life and now 00:05:44.829 --> 00:05:48.550 he's found something he's excited to do. So we're 00:05:48.550 --> 00:05:51.199 really happy to see him. on a good trajectory. 00:05:51.620 --> 00:05:54.660 And the younger two, they're totally different 00:05:54.660 --> 00:05:57.560 because the older two were very, they were homeschooled, 00:05:57.560 --> 00:06:02.819 they were very mature and responsible and just 00:06:02.819 --> 00:06:04.680 had a very different childhood, whereas the younger 00:06:04.680 --> 00:06:07.100 two have been in school from the beginning. And 00:06:07.100 --> 00:06:10.519 I feel like... They're very much more the babies. 00:06:10.939 --> 00:06:14.540 And, you know, where they're 12 and 13 now, I 00:06:14.540 --> 00:06:17.699 won't leave them alone very long. Whereas when 00:06:17.699 --> 00:06:19.800 Cody and Ellie do, I would leave them alone with 00:06:19.800 --> 00:06:22.660 two babies for, you know, we would go on a date. 00:06:22.699 --> 00:06:25.519 And it's just so funny just how the different 00:06:25.519 --> 00:06:28.060 personalities are for older kids and younger 00:06:28.060 --> 00:06:32.319 kids. But the younger two are super social, probably 00:06:32.319 --> 00:06:34.560 a lot more than the older two. They have to constantly 00:06:34.560 --> 00:06:38.300 be with friends and will talk your ear off. And 00:06:38.300 --> 00:06:42.040 it definitely was hard having the two because 00:06:42.040 --> 00:06:44.839 you kind of got to an easy place in life where 00:06:44.839 --> 00:06:47.060 we were doing things and then we had to start 00:06:47.060 --> 00:06:49.860 all over. What's the age gap again? Let's see. 00:06:50.660 --> 00:06:54.160 So eight years. We had eight. So Ellie Jo was 00:06:54.160 --> 00:06:57.899 eight when Charlie was born. Wow. That's a huge. 00:06:58.040 --> 00:07:00.639 It's huge. And honestly, it was not. We were 00:07:00.639 --> 00:07:02.379 in the adoption process, and we were adopting 00:07:02.379 --> 00:07:06.980 internationally a sibling group. Okay. And then 00:07:06.980 --> 00:07:10.139 I got pregnant, and so we had to back out and 00:07:10.139 --> 00:07:13.079 got pregnant again right away. It's just kind 00:07:13.079 --> 00:07:17.259 of funny to think. Like, we three times got pregnant 00:07:17.259 --> 00:07:20.600 and were surprised by it, which. It's kind of 00:07:20.600 --> 00:07:22.819 embarrassing to say like you wouldn't know that 00:07:22.819 --> 00:07:24.819 that's going to happen, but twice breastfeeding. 00:07:25.339 --> 00:07:28.720 Yeah. Yep. But it's definitely hard because we 00:07:28.720 --> 00:07:30.360 would try to keep doing the things we've been 00:07:30.360 --> 00:07:33.379 doing and camping, and it just did not go well 00:07:33.379 --> 00:07:35.560 for us. Right, when you have littles, then all 00:07:35.560 --> 00:07:37.420 of a sudden it's a whole different ballgame. 00:07:37.519 --> 00:07:41.160 Some people do it, but we did not thrive. We 00:07:41.160 --> 00:07:43.819 tried, and it was just like, nope, we're just... 00:07:43.819 --> 00:07:46.860 We're homebodies right now. Yeah, we were for 00:07:46.860 --> 00:07:50.040 a long time. Or finding a game you could play 00:07:50.040 --> 00:07:52.800 or a movie you could watch. It just, everything 00:07:52.800 --> 00:07:57.610 definitely felt a lot harder. Yeah. for quite 00:07:57.610 --> 00:08:00.589 a number of years yeah I bet that sounds hard 00:08:00.589 --> 00:08:04.009 I feel like it's hard for me right extra hard 00:08:04.009 --> 00:08:06.750 especially to keep my toddler entertained yeah 00:08:06.750 --> 00:08:09.870 and then yeah making sure the baby's tended to 00:08:09.870 --> 00:08:14.329 and so I can't imagine with four with that big 00:08:14.329 --> 00:08:16.209 of an age gap too and then you even just talking 00:08:16.209 --> 00:08:18.209 about the sleep deprivation I can't imagine like 00:08:18.209 --> 00:08:20.930 eight years eight years old you've gotten past 00:08:20.930 --> 00:08:23.269 that they're like sleeping on their own they're 00:08:23.709 --> 00:08:25.470 pretty independent obviously they still need 00:08:25.470 --> 00:08:28.569 mom and dad but like fairly independent and then 00:08:28.569 --> 00:08:30.970 all of a sudden you're back to square one of 00:08:30.970 --> 00:08:36.110 breastfeeding and getting up at night and diapers 00:08:36.110 --> 00:08:38.830 and all the things yeah but I had two helpers 00:08:38.830 --> 00:08:41.929 and they were very helpful kids so yeah that 00:08:41.929 --> 00:08:44.049 also makes a difference that makes a difference 00:08:44.049 --> 00:08:48.429 for sure so tell us about Ellie Jo So Ellie Jo 00:08:48.429 --> 00:08:54.549 was a dream kid. She was super responsible. She 00:08:54.549 --> 00:08:57.330 was kind. She was a great student, just very 00:08:57.330 --> 00:09:00.850 bright. And she was the kind of kid when she 00:09:00.850 --> 00:09:03.289 turned 12, started babysitting, you know, everyone 00:09:03.289 --> 00:09:05.309 would want her to be the babysitter because she 00:09:05.309 --> 00:09:07.629 would clean your kitchen. Just like she was a 00:09:07.629 --> 00:09:13.049 dream child. Just so, so easy, easy to be around 00:09:13.049 --> 00:09:15.870 and everything you would want in a daughter. 00:09:17.360 --> 00:09:19.740 So what was she like then going into her teen 00:09:19.740 --> 00:09:22.960 years? Did that continue? Did things change? 00:09:23.379 --> 00:09:25.720 It continued. She went through puberty later, 00:09:25.879 --> 00:09:29.440 and so she very much was still a little girl, 00:09:29.440 --> 00:09:33.659 even in her early teens. She was still playing 00:09:33.659 --> 00:09:36.120 with dolls, and she just had this innocence about 00:09:36.120 --> 00:09:39.379 her. So I would say about the time she went into 00:09:39.379 --> 00:09:43.990 puberty is about when there was a change. And 00:09:43.990 --> 00:09:45.970 not to say that's what caused it, but it was 00:09:45.970 --> 00:09:49.750 about that time. And quite honestly, from an 00:09:49.750 --> 00:09:52.070 external perspective, I didn't see anything. 00:09:52.330 --> 00:09:55.529 It was more she actually went to her youth group 00:09:55.529 --> 00:09:58.570 leader and shared a struggle that she was having 00:09:58.570 --> 00:10:03.110 specifically with not wanting to eat was the 00:10:03.110 --> 00:10:06.539 first. way that it came out. And so her youth 00:10:06.539 --> 00:10:08.799 group leader encouraged her to come talk to me, 00:10:08.899 --> 00:10:11.600 which she did. And so that was the first time 00:10:11.600 --> 00:10:14.279 that there was a sign that there was something 00:10:14.279 --> 00:10:18.389 starting to go on. What else started to change? 00:10:18.470 --> 00:10:21.009 So this is the first thing. Was it like consecutive, 00:10:21.149 --> 00:10:23.129 like lots of things started to change or was 00:10:23.129 --> 00:10:26.049 it like a slow? It was very slow. And so we just, 00:10:26.090 --> 00:10:28.490 we mostly talked about it and talked about, should 00:10:28.490 --> 00:10:31.029 we go talk with somebody? And we just kind of 00:10:31.029 --> 00:10:33.590 dialogued throughout the year about it and nothing 00:10:33.590 --> 00:10:37.029 really changed. It was just more, it was a spoken 00:10:37.029 --> 00:10:44.700 thing now. So I still wasn't alarmed. So it was 00:10:44.700 --> 00:10:47.100 probably another full year when she came back 00:10:47.100 --> 00:10:50.159 and it was getting bigger and she was starting 00:10:50.159 --> 00:10:53.940 to feel an urge to harm herself, like to cut. 00:10:54.200 --> 00:10:57.419 And she hadn't done anything at that point, but 00:10:57.419 --> 00:11:01.419 she just was feeling this urge. So that's when 00:11:01.419 --> 00:11:05.480 we went outside of our family to try to get some 00:11:05.480 --> 00:11:09.490 help. So Ellie Jo, did she come to you first 00:11:09.490 --> 00:11:11.789 or did she go to someone else to talk about, 00:11:11.889 --> 00:11:15.070 to let them know? That time I think she came 00:11:15.070 --> 00:11:18.289 to me first. Okay. Yeah. And it was really interesting. 00:11:18.450 --> 00:11:20.669 She didn't come talk to me. She wrote me a letter. 00:11:21.190 --> 00:11:23.669 Gotcha. Because it was hard for her to even say. 00:11:23.870 --> 00:11:26.710 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that's really cool 00:11:26.710 --> 00:11:30.360 that you have a relationship with her that. Even 00:11:30.360 --> 00:11:32.100 if it's like, this is hard for me to say face 00:11:32.100 --> 00:11:34.299 -to -face. Like there are so many things that 00:11:34.299 --> 00:11:35.860 are hard to say face -to -face, right? Just in 00:11:35.860 --> 00:11:39.080 general. Yeah. That she found a way to communicate 00:11:39.080 --> 00:11:40.840 like, hey, this is something I'm struggling with. 00:11:41.000 --> 00:11:42.799 And she still felt comfortable talking to you 00:11:42.799 --> 00:11:46.580 even if it's like this face -to -face thing isn't 00:11:46.580 --> 00:11:48.440 what's going to work for me right now. Right, 00:11:48.440 --> 00:11:52.820 for sure. So did that, so you said you ended 00:11:52.820 --> 00:11:54.980 up going outside of the family. Did you get her 00:11:54.980 --> 00:11:57.700 a counselor, a therapist? Yeah, we went and found. 00:11:58.490 --> 00:12:01.129 A counselor for her to talk to. And how'd that 00:12:01.129 --> 00:12:07.889 go? That was really hard because by that time 00:12:07.889 --> 00:12:12.990 I think she was 15. And so just the way that 00:12:12.990 --> 00:12:17.750 it works legally, it's very private. Yeah, they 00:12:17.750 --> 00:12:19.690 can't tell you a lot past a certain age, right? 00:12:19.950 --> 00:12:23.629 Yeah, and so that felt really gross to me because 00:12:23.629 --> 00:12:28.059 I wanted it to... We were able to navigate that, 00:12:28.120 --> 00:12:30.039 but it just felt like you're sending your child 00:12:30.039 --> 00:12:32.720 to talk to somebody and you have no idea what 00:12:32.720 --> 00:12:39.059 they're talking about. But I would say that when 00:12:39.059 --> 00:12:41.600 she started talking to a counselor, I felt like 00:12:41.600 --> 00:12:45.059 things started to escalate pretty quickly. In 00:12:45.059 --> 00:12:49.539 a negative way. yeah and just more and more started 00:12:49.539 --> 00:12:53.700 coming out and and would almost like change weekly 00:12:53.700 --> 00:12:56.720 it was just like this moving target in a sense 00:12:56.720 --> 00:13:00.179 of different things so almost felt like the counseling 00:13:00.179 --> 00:13:03.080 made it worse rather than better like maybe not 00:13:03.080 --> 00:13:06.220 that's from my that's how it felt and it could 00:13:06.220 --> 00:13:09.120 be that now all the stuff that was maybe in her 00:13:09.120 --> 00:13:13.179 mind was you know getting getting out sure yeah 00:13:13.889 --> 00:13:16.429 So how did that, I guess, make you feel as a 00:13:16.429 --> 00:13:20.230 mom of like, okay, we did what we think the right 00:13:20.230 --> 00:13:23.450 thing is, and now it feels like it's getting 00:13:23.450 --> 00:13:29.490 worse? Well, I guess it's hard because you want 00:13:29.490 --> 00:13:33.350 to be able to help your kids, right? And it was 00:13:33.350 --> 00:13:36.950 very much a helpless feeling in trying to find 00:13:36.950 --> 00:13:39.409 the right person to help them. And you start 00:13:39.409 --> 00:13:43.159 to question, is this the right person? You know, 00:13:43.179 --> 00:13:45.139 you start looking at different medications and 00:13:45.139 --> 00:13:47.679 all of there's just so many different things. 00:13:47.779 --> 00:13:49.720 And it's not something I'd ever walked through 00:13:49.720 --> 00:13:54.120 or knew anybody. I was completely by myself. 00:13:54.159 --> 00:13:56.980 And in the middle of it all, COVID happened. 00:13:57.179 --> 00:14:02.019 And so it was just added complexity to that made. 00:14:02.100 --> 00:14:05.500 I feel like everyone I know, like any struggle 00:14:05.500 --> 00:14:09.039 that preexisted COVID just made it worse. Yes. 00:14:10.960 --> 00:14:15.240 So had she actually started self -harming at 00:14:15.240 --> 00:14:18.779 that point? No. Did she ever actually self -harm? 00:14:18.899 --> 00:14:24.179 Yeah, more like I would say in the last few months 00:14:24.179 --> 00:14:28.659 of her life is when she did. Okay. So you know 00:14:28.659 --> 00:14:31.159 she's struggling. You're doing everything you 00:14:31.159 --> 00:14:35.720 can. So had she had any suicide attempts previously? 00:14:35.980 --> 00:14:39.440 No. Oh, previous to when she did take her life? 00:14:40.350 --> 00:14:43.909 That's a hard one to answer because from my perspective, 00:14:44.009 --> 00:14:47.110 I would say no, but from a medical perspective, 00:14:47.309 --> 00:14:49.730 they would say yes. So what they define as a 00:14:49.730 --> 00:14:52.389 suicide attempt is not what I would have realized 00:14:52.389 --> 00:14:56.549 was an attempt. Got it. So in that perspective, 00:14:56.830 --> 00:15:01.549 yes, a couple of times, but I didn't know that 00:15:01.549 --> 00:15:05.330 that would be defined as that. Got it. That makes 00:15:05.330 --> 00:15:07.210 sense. Yeah, I mean, it's hard to tell. Like, 00:15:07.269 --> 00:15:10.309 you know your kid differently than... than doctors 00:15:10.309 --> 00:15:15.110 do or than medical is defined. So tell us about 00:15:15.110 --> 00:15:17.909 the day that she did take her life. What did 00:15:17.909 --> 00:15:19.470 that look like for your family? What did that 00:15:19.470 --> 00:15:22.970 look like for you? When something like that happens, 00:15:23.009 --> 00:15:26.250 for one, I didn't ever think she would. I thought 00:15:26.250 --> 00:15:29.690 a lot of it was just a cry for help, and she 00:15:29.690 --> 00:15:34.539 was getting help. And this was so interesting. 00:15:34.620 --> 00:15:36.759 A lot of things you learn on the other side of 00:15:36.759 --> 00:15:39.460 it. But like she was actually doing really well. 00:15:39.519 --> 00:15:43.179 Like physically she looked healthier. You know, 00:15:43.200 --> 00:15:45.019 sometimes when you're going through depression, 00:15:45.220 --> 00:15:47.460 you maybe don't take care of yourself. And so 00:15:47.460 --> 00:15:49.840 she had been dressing a little different and 00:15:49.840 --> 00:15:53.000 just looked a little darker. And she changed. 00:15:53.080 --> 00:15:56.240 She started, you know, dressing better and looking. 00:15:56.889 --> 00:16:00.549 better. She was making long -term plans. She 00:16:00.549 --> 00:16:02.649 had a whole spreadsheet of college applications 00:16:02.649 --> 00:16:06.909 and had applied for a job. She was going to work 00:16:06.909 --> 00:16:10.129 at Hydra Haji for the summer and had been accepted 00:16:10.129 --> 00:16:12.330 for that. She was entering a pageant. I mean, 00:16:12.350 --> 00:16:15.049 all these things that you would look at and think, 00:16:15.149 --> 00:16:19.289 okay, you're doing really well and you are making 00:16:19.289 --> 00:16:23.399 long -term plans. And so to me, it from the outside 00:16:23.399 --> 00:16:27.740 looked like she was well but now from when I'm 00:16:27.740 --> 00:16:31.379 talking to other people a lot of times when somebody 00:16:31.379 --> 00:16:34.320 is depressed they and they've made a decision 00:16:34.320 --> 00:16:37.120 to do something they feel lighter and so they 00:16:37.120 --> 00:16:39.360 look like they're doing better but it's because 00:16:39.360 --> 00:16:42.799 they've made a decision wow yeah and I mean I 00:16:42.799 --> 00:16:45.720 won't ever know because there's no no notes or 00:16:45.720 --> 00:16:49.570 no documentation but But what's interesting and 00:16:49.570 --> 00:16:53.750 surprising to me is that one of my first reactions 00:16:53.750 --> 00:16:58.850 that day wasn't grief or what you would think. 00:16:59.250 --> 00:17:04.690 My first reaction was my other kids. And I think 00:17:04.690 --> 00:17:07.650 because I've known stories of people, that was 00:17:07.650 --> 00:17:09.829 basically the first thing I did was to get them 00:17:09.829 --> 00:17:15.170 into a safe space so that to minimize the trauma. 00:17:16.359 --> 00:17:18.660 That they would experience. It's inevitable. 00:17:19.079 --> 00:17:24.640 Right. So I got them to a place where then my 00:17:24.640 --> 00:17:28.460 husband and I could figure out what to do so 00:17:28.460 --> 00:17:33.220 that everybody was gone. So that was my first 00:17:33.220 --> 00:17:36.599 reaction, to be able to get resources and to 00:17:36.599 --> 00:17:40.079 help us navigate this. Because I don't know why 00:17:40.079 --> 00:17:42.519 I knew this, but you hear stories of somebody 00:17:42.519 --> 00:17:45.980 who's had a traumatic experience. live at that 00:17:45.980 --> 00:17:50.299 age that that happened. And so I had that in 00:17:50.299 --> 00:17:54.519 my mind. And so, which is so odd to me, but I 00:17:54.519 --> 00:17:56.819 guess your mind does weird things, right? When 00:17:56.819 --> 00:17:59.700 you're dealing with something like this, you 00:17:59.700 --> 00:18:01.259 don't know what your body and your mind are going 00:18:01.259 --> 00:18:05.640 to do to take over. And so what was that safe 00:18:05.640 --> 00:18:08.259 place for your kids then? My next door neighbor. 00:18:08.440 --> 00:18:11.200 Yeah. So you just kind of like shuffled them 00:18:11.200 --> 00:18:13.539 all over to the neighbor's house. Cody was at 00:18:13.539 --> 00:18:18.569 school. Yeah, and so he was there for a little 00:18:18.569 --> 00:18:21.470 bit, and then we were able to bring everybody 00:18:21.470 --> 00:18:26.589 together and had a plan on how to communicate, 00:18:26.710 --> 00:18:29.690 which that's a blessing of being in the church 00:18:29.690 --> 00:18:32.650 is you have Lisa, you know, so we've got resources, 00:18:32.710 --> 00:18:37.130 and she knows so much and knew, you know, how 00:18:37.130 --> 00:18:41.000 do you tell your children. Yeah. What do you 00:18:41.000 --> 00:18:45.839 say? So she was able to give me words that I 00:18:45.839 --> 00:18:50.140 didn't have. That's super awesome. Yeah. So what 00:18:50.140 --> 00:18:53.500 did telling your other kids look like then? So 00:18:53.500 --> 00:18:55.539 the younger two, they're still fairly young at 00:18:55.539 --> 00:18:57.799 this. That's four years ago. I want to say seven 00:18:57.799 --> 00:19:00.819 and eight. Yeah. Wow. Okay. Yeah. That feels 00:19:00.819 --> 00:19:05.339 right. Yeah. Or something like that. Yeah. So 00:19:05.339 --> 00:19:08.400 young. They were very young. And they were very 00:19:08.400 --> 00:19:15.460 close to her. And so their reactions were very 00:19:15.460 --> 00:19:19.960 different. And they can't really understand. 00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:22.839 They had never lost anybody. So they didn't even 00:19:22.839 --> 00:19:27.740 have a context for this. Whereas Ruby, my daughter, 00:19:27.940 --> 00:19:33.490 was just like denial. And then my son, Charlie, 00:19:33.569 --> 00:19:37.029 just ran to his room and got into bed. So I think 00:19:37.029 --> 00:19:41.009 maybe he understood more. And I think for Cody, 00:19:41.069 --> 00:19:45.349 it was just more just shock and kind of shut 00:19:45.349 --> 00:19:48.269 down. So they all just reacted in a different 00:19:48.269 --> 00:19:52.589 way in the moment. I can't imagine. Like, that 00:19:52.589 --> 00:19:55.299 would almost be harder for me, I think. is yeah 00:19:55.299 --> 00:19:57.660 you have to tell your other kids right it's and 00:19:57.660 --> 00:19:59.619 trying to protect them but they need to know 00:19:59.619 --> 00:20:02.339 the truth right and what does that look like 00:20:02.339 --> 00:20:06.240 at this point for you were you I'm sure you were 00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:10.660 just like in shock and yeah and probably it still 00:20:10.660 --> 00:20:13.400 hadn't quite hit you right what had happened 00:20:13.400 --> 00:20:16.019 right at what moment do you feel like it did 00:20:16.019 --> 00:20:21.259 hit you it I think so there's like a Long history 00:20:21.259 --> 00:20:23.920 with why this moment was the moment that I was 00:20:23.920 --> 00:20:26.980 able to, like, let it hit what had happened is 00:20:26.980 --> 00:20:30.539 then I had to call my family out of state. And 00:20:30.539 --> 00:20:34.700 so I called my sister, and her reaction kind 00:20:34.700 --> 00:20:37.920 of gave me permission. And so I was able to cry 00:20:37.920 --> 00:20:40.819 for the first time with her. Yeah. Which was, 00:20:40.960 --> 00:20:44.519 it's just so weird, like, to look at and say, 00:20:44.640 --> 00:20:47.559 I couldn't even cry. But then when she cried, 00:20:47.579 --> 00:20:51.529 it helped me to. to let it out. Yeah. And some 00:20:51.529 --> 00:20:54.009 of that goes to my childhood, right? And just 00:20:54.009 --> 00:20:56.930 trauma from childhood and grief and all of that 00:20:56.930 --> 00:20:58.970 and not, you know, being the one that has to 00:20:58.970 --> 00:21:02.589 hold it together. And so that's how I did it. 00:21:02.650 --> 00:21:05.950 I held it together. But then you have other people 00:21:05.950 --> 00:21:08.950 that kind of bring it out of you and help you 00:21:08.950 --> 00:21:11.170 too. For sure. And like you said, it's almost 00:21:11.170 --> 00:21:13.630 like permission of like, no, you're allowed to 00:21:13.630 --> 00:21:16.099 be sad. You should be sad. Yeah. Yeah, I know. 00:21:16.140 --> 00:21:19.480 So I knew Ellie Jo fairly well and I felt kind 00:21:19.480 --> 00:21:22.119 of the same way, obviously very different. But 00:21:22.119 --> 00:21:25.660 my mom called me to let me know and she's like, 00:21:25.680 --> 00:21:27.519 are you OK? And I was like, well, obviously no. 00:21:28.539 --> 00:21:31.279 But I like couldn't cry until I talked to someone 00:21:31.279 --> 00:21:33.140 else on the phone. And then as soon as I talked 00:21:33.140 --> 00:21:36.920 to Carly, it was like just a mess. So and I don't 00:21:36.920 --> 00:21:38.559 know what it is about certain people that just. 00:21:39.349 --> 00:21:41.930 allow you to experience that differently and 00:21:41.930 --> 00:21:45.450 almost get out of the shock factor and into like 00:21:45.450 --> 00:21:51.009 your real emotions of this trauma. Yeah. So what 00:21:51.009 --> 00:21:54.450 has this like grief and healing been like for 00:21:54.450 --> 00:22:00.130 your journey? It's a lot longer than, I mean, 00:22:00.130 --> 00:22:02.410 it's a lifelong journey. So I'm four years in. 00:22:02.730 --> 00:22:06.450 And I think part of the reason it's so long is 00:22:06.450 --> 00:22:12.289 that I have really had to focus so much on my 00:22:12.289 --> 00:22:16.170 kids and trying to keep them moving forward. 00:22:16.289 --> 00:22:19.029 So I think I've known other people in my same 00:22:19.029 --> 00:22:23.109 situation, and I don't think any of them had 00:22:23.109 --> 00:22:27.390 kids at home still. And so when we talk about 00:22:27.390 --> 00:22:31.230 our experiences, it's so different, which I think 00:22:31.230 --> 00:22:34.940 in some ways it was helpful because it gave me 00:22:34.940 --> 00:22:36.960 a reason to get up in the morning and get out 00:22:36.960 --> 00:22:39.759 of bed because I had to for them. You have these 00:22:39.759 --> 00:22:42.079 people who still need you. Yeah, very much so. 00:22:42.519 --> 00:22:45.819 Whereas if I didn't, I could have just stayed 00:22:45.819 --> 00:22:48.640 in bed and probably would have for a long time. 00:22:49.200 --> 00:22:52.000 And so I very much had to keep moving. But that 00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:57.039 also can be not great because I'm so worried 00:22:57.039 --> 00:22:59.380 about taking care of everybody else that I'm 00:22:59.380 --> 00:23:04.400 not taking care of myself. So now, more years 00:23:04.400 --> 00:23:06.779 down the road, I'm able to do that a little bit 00:23:06.779 --> 00:23:08.940 more because they're older and it's like, okay, 00:23:09.019 --> 00:23:14.000 we're going to be okay. And so now I better take 00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:16.839 care of myself because there's a lot to deal 00:23:16.839 --> 00:23:20.480 with. So, yeah, how do you take care of yourself 00:23:20.480 --> 00:23:23.319 when you're grieving, when you have kids that 00:23:23.319 --> 00:23:30.180 need you? All of that. Now I have my kids in 00:23:30.180 --> 00:23:33.720 school. full time now and I work part time. So 00:23:33.720 --> 00:23:38.019 now on my days off, I just try to schedule things 00:23:38.019 --> 00:23:40.220 for myself and I had to actually schedule them 00:23:40.220 --> 00:23:43.059 to make them happen. So I try to exercise so 00:23:43.059 --> 00:23:46.819 that I'm moving and I have a good group of friends 00:23:46.819 --> 00:23:49.960 that know my story and some of them who have 00:23:49.960 --> 00:23:53.319 been through the same thing. And so spending 00:23:53.319 --> 00:23:56.720 time with, with people and just doing things 00:23:56.720 --> 00:24:00.509 that I can enjoy and One is playing pickleball, 00:24:00.569 --> 00:24:04.750 just being outside and moving and being with 00:24:04.750 --> 00:24:08.250 people that I can laugh with. So that's the biggest 00:24:08.250 --> 00:24:11.329 thing. And reading has been really helpful, reading 00:24:11.329 --> 00:24:14.109 stories. There's a lot of great books that I've 00:24:14.109 --> 00:24:17.789 read that are helpful to hear other people's 00:24:17.789 --> 00:24:21.750 journeys and that you can relate to. How do you 00:24:21.750 --> 00:24:25.309 feel like you, okay, so you're helping yourself. 00:24:26.740 --> 00:24:29.319 As much as you can. Right. And then alongside 00:24:29.319 --> 00:24:31.920 of that, you're having to help your kids grieve 00:24:31.920 --> 00:24:36.660 too. What did that look like? That is really 00:24:36.660 --> 00:24:39.799 hard because you can't make somebody grieve. 00:24:40.059 --> 00:24:43.460 True. And you can't make them talk about it. 00:24:44.259 --> 00:24:48.579 And which is my experience. I had loss when I 00:24:48.579 --> 00:24:51.700 was a child and never learned how to grieve. 00:24:51.920 --> 00:24:57.829 And so. I guess the first thing I did was I got 00:24:57.829 --> 00:25:00.910 the younger ones a counselor. My older son, it 00:25:00.910 --> 00:25:02.630 was right before he graduated high school, and 00:25:02.630 --> 00:25:06.230 he was going away. And he very much was not open 00:25:06.230 --> 00:25:10.470 to talking to anybody. And then my younger son 00:25:10.470 --> 00:25:15.170 went to see somebody but wouldn't talk. And then 00:25:15.170 --> 00:25:19.250 my daughter went, and she would do play therapy. 00:25:20.750 --> 00:25:22.609 She wanted to talk to me. She didn't want to 00:25:22.609 --> 00:25:25.950 talk to a therapist. And so she was very verbal 00:25:25.950 --> 00:25:29.630 and would talk to me all the time. So I was able 00:25:29.630 --> 00:25:35.049 to process with her, whereas my boys do not want 00:25:35.049 --> 00:25:37.849 to talk about it. So we can talk about her and 00:25:37.849 --> 00:25:40.630 share stories about her, but they don't want 00:25:40.630 --> 00:25:42.910 to talk about their grief or their feelings. 00:25:44.460 --> 00:25:47.400 So my belief is there will come a time where 00:25:47.400 --> 00:25:53.599 they will need to. And we talk and share so they 00:25:53.599 --> 00:25:56.539 know that we can talk about it. It's not something 00:25:56.539 --> 00:26:00.660 we don't talk about. But I cannot make them. 00:26:00.700 --> 00:26:04.420 And I know that that's really hard to watch and 00:26:04.420 --> 00:26:09.289 know that they're hurting. can't process that 00:26:09.289 --> 00:26:11.650 yeah when you love someone especially as a parent 00:26:11.650 --> 00:26:14.589 you just want to fix it and it's really hard 00:26:14.589 --> 00:26:19.390 when whatever it is you can't fix nope and you 00:26:19.390 --> 00:26:21.670 just have to be there for whenever they're ready 00:26:21.670 --> 00:26:24.990 right to decide that they need it they need your 00:26:24.990 --> 00:26:28.369 help whatever that may look like so you said 00:26:28.369 --> 00:26:33.960 ruby likes to talk to you how do you manage being 00:26:33.960 --> 00:26:36.299 able to verbally process with her without also 00:26:36.299 --> 00:26:38.779 pouring like because obviously as a parent it's 00:26:38.779 --> 00:26:40.880 inappropriate for us to use our kids as therapists 00:26:40.880 --> 00:26:45.079 right so how do you handle like connecting with 00:26:45.079 --> 00:26:48.559 her and kind of having this like yeah I miss 00:26:48.559 --> 00:26:52.920 LA Joe too and like that kind of connection without 00:26:52.920 --> 00:26:57.220 overdoing it so that way it's like almost like 00:26:57.220 --> 00:26:59.579 you're trauma dumping on your other child who 00:27:00.259 --> 00:27:03.880 Who's going to her mom for support. Right. Well, 00:27:04.000 --> 00:27:07.940 and it's been really interesting because we grieve 00:27:07.940 --> 00:27:14.740 very differently. And so I wanted to try to model 00:27:14.740 --> 00:27:17.779 a little bit for her that, you know, that is 00:27:17.779 --> 00:27:22.460 okay and it's okay to talk about. But we've had 00:27:22.460 --> 00:27:24.579 really interesting conversations because for 00:27:24.579 --> 00:27:27.619 me, I know some people would want to keep the 00:27:27.619 --> 00:27:31.339 room exactly as it was, and that was not how 00:27:31.339 --> 00:27:35.640 I was. I wanted to take pieces of her room and 00:27:35.640 --> 00:27:39.279 give it to people that loved her. But what I 00:27:39.279 --> 00:27:41.720 immediately found was that Ruby needed her room 00:27:41.720 --> 00:27:47.980 to stay as it was. And so we had to work, talk 00:27:47.980 --> 00:27:52.559 about that. It was just really interesting because 00:27:52.559 --> 00:27:53.960 I thought, oh, I'm her mom. I'm going to give 00:27:53.960 --> 00:27:59.240 this to Ellie Jo's friend. And Ruby was hysterical. 00:27:59.380 --> 00:28:03.460 And I just was so caught off guard. And so we 00:28:03.460 --> 00:28:07.000 just had to kind of learn. And I would share 00:28:07.000 --> 00:28:10.380 with her that this is something I want to do 00:28:10.380 --> 00:28:14.440 in a way that helps me to grieve. But I deferred 00:28:14.440 --> 00:28:18.990 to her, so I kept things more as they were. I 00:28:18.990 --> 00:28:22.529 think it's been just more of a conversation and 00:28:22.529 --> 00:28:26.690 sharing. And what's hard is as Ruby's gotten 00:28:26.690 --> 00:28:29.789 older, she talks less and less. Because, yeah, 00:28:29.809 --> 00:28:33.049 she's 12 now? She's 12, yeah. So she's also just 00:28:33.049 --> 00:28:35.930 starting to get to the age where she's going 00:28:35.930 --> 00:28:38.430 to talk to you less. Right. Just because she's 00:28:38.430 --> 00:28:42.490 12. Right. Is that tough then that you're just 00:28:42.490 --> 00:28:44.250 having less conversations or does it feel really 00:28:44.250 --> 00:28:47.829 natural? I mean, it feels natural, but it also, 00:28:48.509 --> 00:28:51.910 I can bring it up whenever, you know, so, and 00:28:51.910 --> 00:28:54.009 there's just the rhythms of the year when it 00:28:54.009 --> 00:28:56.589 naturally comes up. Like we just had Elijah's 00:28:56.589 --> 00:28:59.269 birthday and we just had the four year anniversary. 00:28:59.430 --> 00:29:02.769 And so it just naturally will come up on those 00:29:02.769 --> 00:29:09.049 days. And so we've talked more recently. So going 00:29:09.049 --> 00:29:11.509 through all this, you're still a parent and they're 00:29:11.509 --> 00:29:15.029 still kids. What does just like day to day parenting 00:29:15.029 --> 00:29:18.539 look like? while you're grieving, while your 00:29:18.539 --> 00:29:20.279 kids are grieving, but they're still, you know, 00:29:20.279 --> 00:29:22.480 they're still doing things that they're not supposed 00:29:22.480 --> 00:29:23.720 to do because they're kids and you still have 00:29:23.720 --> 00:29:26.759 to do just normal parenting tasks. What does 00:29:26.759 --> 00:29:32.460 that look like? I think, I think it's been, it's 00:29:32.460 --> 00:29:35.539 been hard because I, after losing Ellie Jo, I 00:29:35.539 --> 00:29:39.279 definitely was different and, and I was, I was 00:29:39.279 --> 00:29:42.599 tired and I was, I was physically feeling sick 00:29:42.599 --> 00:29:45.099 because I wasn't taking care of myself. And so. 00:29:46.089 --> 00:29:49.549 It's been a process of kind of giving yourself 00:29:49.549 --> 00:29:54.710 permission that you're just kind of a mess a 00:29:54.710 --> 00:29:57.309 little bit, and it's okay to be a mess, and we're 00:29:57.309 --> 00:30:01.529 all just a mess right now, and just being okay 00:30:01.529 --> 00:30:03.730 with that, that it's not going to be pretty. 00:30:04.329 --> 00:30:09.430 But also I have to do a lot of work to recognize 00:30:09.430 --> 00:30:12.490 that, you know, sometimes if I'm shorter than 00:30:12.490 --> 00:30:15.579 I used to be. that that's something I need to 00:30:15.579 --> 00:30:19.480 work on. And so that's why I say I'm having to 00:30:19.480 --> 00:30:22.019 really do a lot of work because I did not take 00:30:22.019 --> 00:30:24.660 care of myself those first, I don't know, even 00:30:24.660 --> 00:30:27.039 a couple of years because I was so focused on 00:30:27.039 --> 00:30:30.140 the other kids and getting them to move forward. 00:30:31.299 --> 00:30:38.319 So it definitely is hard because of how I physically 00:30:38.319 --> 00:30:42.000 was feeling. But I guess what I was going to 00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:48.420 say is, Learning that you can have both the grief 00:30:48.420 --> 00:30:54.980 and joy simultaneously and it's okay to be experiencing 00:30:54.980 --> 00:30:59.279 both. It's okay to laugh and share stories. It 00:30:59.279 --> 00:31:05.680 doesn't diminish the loss. So what did your support 00:31:05.680 --> 00:31:09.799 system look like at the time and then even now 00:31:09.799 --> 00:31:14.450 four years later? That's probably one thing that 00:31:14.450 --> 00:31:18.490 blew me away was the support system and that 00:31:18.490 --> 00:31:26.049 I didn't even know I had. And I think that's 00:31:26.049 --> 00:31:31.349 probably what's carried me through is that in 00:31:31.349 --> 00:31:35.730 that moment with the worst of the worst, seeing 00:31:35.730 --> 00:31:41.700 God's hand and his provision. in ways that i 00:31:41.700 --> 00:31:47.380 didn't anticipate where people would show up 00:31:47.380 --> 00:31:50.900 and do things that i didn't ask for or literally 00:31:50.900 --> 00:31:53.220 i would write something on my grocery list and 00:31:53.220 --> 00:31:56.619 someone came to my door with the specific item 00:31:56.619 --> 00:32:00.920 i asked for wow so it was just those little details 00:32:00.920 --> 00:32:05.599 where just my need moment by moment was not um 00:32:05.599 --> 00:32:11.140 i i just And I didn't ever have to ask for anything, 00:32:11.299 --> 00:32:15.680 but what I did have to do was be okay receiving. 00:32:17.960 --> 00:32:22.319 Because I've not been somebody who has been good 00:32:22.319 --> 00:32:26.039 at receiving before, and so I felt very strongly 00:32:26.039 --> 00:32:31.440 God telling me that I should not say no to anything 00:32:31.440 --> 00:32:36.000 that anybody does. For one, it's his way of providing 00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:38.890 for us in this time. And we don't even know what 00:32:38.890 --> 00:32:40.970 we need, right? You think, oh, I don't need that. 00:32:41.049 --> 00:32:43.210 And then you realize I really needed that because 00:32:43.210 --> 00:32:45.750 you are so used to being self -sufficient. Yeah. 00:32:46.309 --> 00:32:50.690 And also other people need to do something that 00:32:50.690 --> 00:32:52.950 gives them something to do with their grief. 00:32:53.130 --> 00:32:54.930 And so I don't want to steal that from other 00:32:54.930 --> 00:33:00.369 people. So I just can't even tell you the number 00:33:00.369 --> 00:33:04.829 of ways that people did things that were specific 00:33:04.829 --> 00:33:08.809 to their gifting. And their way of expressing 00:33:08.809 --> 00:33:12.650 love. And some of it, like one young girl drew 00:33:12.650 --> 00:33:15.109 a sketch of Ellie Joy and brought it to my house. 00:33:15.829 --> 00:33:19.250 And so I have that in my house now. Somebody 00:33:19.250 --> 00:33:22.690 else painted a picture. Even just those little 00:33:22.690 --> 00:33:25.410 things that I have reminders in my home now. 00:33:25.589 --> 00:33:28.569 And it's a reminder of Ellie Joy, but it's also 00:33:28.569 --> 00:33:35.680 a reminder of the love that people have. the 00:33:35.680 --> 00:33:39.160 importance of showing up for people even though 00:33:39.160 --> 00:33:43.660 it's hard and um even though you think i don't 00:33:43.660 --> 00:33:46.680 know what to do but sometimes it's just whatever 00:33:46.680 --> 00:33:51.480 god has gifted you with that i never would have 00:33:51.480 --> 00:33:53.039 thought i mean i'm not an artist but i would 00:33:53.039 --> 00:33:54.960 never have thought that that would bless someone 00:33:54.960 --> 00:33:57.859 to draw a picture and give it to them it blessed 00:33:57.859 --> 00:34:03.319 me and in amazing ways or just showing up with 00:34:04.240 --> 00:34:08.460 a box of tea or just little things just to show 00:34:08.460 --> 00:34:12.900 constantly that we see you we're here again stepping 00:34:12.900 --> 00:34:16.980 in I was teaching at the time and I stayed home 00:34:16.980 --> 00:34:20.139 for three weeks I had a teacher to go write all 00:34:20.139 --> 00:34:22.420 my lesson plans for me for the rest of the year 00:34:22.420 --> 00:34:24.780 so that because I wanted to go back I felt like 00:34:24.780 --> 00:34:28.000 I needed to go back and so I just literally would 00:34:28.000 --> 00:34:29.820 walk into the classroom and I would open the 00:34:29.820 --> 00:34:31.380 lesson plans that she wrote and I would just 00:34:31.380 --> 00:34:34.030 read what she wrote just Just to be able to stand 00:34:34.030 --> 00:34:38.829 there and do my job. And because I wanted, I 00:34:38.829 --> 00:34:41.909 needed to keep moving forward. And I kind of, 00:34:41.909 --> 00:34:45.130 in a sense, felt like I needed to be there. And 00:34:45.130 --> 00:34:48.769 I wanted to be there for the other kids. Because 00:34:48.769 --> 00:34:51.369 they had all lost. Ellie chose all my students. 00:34:52.010 --> 00:34:54.690 I had to walk into the class where she was. Wow. 00:34:54.809 --> 00:34:58.469 And teach. But I felt like I needed to do that 00:34:58.469 --> 00:35:02.320 for them. Instead of it just happened and you 00:35:02.320 --> 00:35:06.780 never see our family again. We needed to be a 00:35:06.780 --> 00:35:10.119 model that we're okay and that we're standing 00:35:10.119 --> 00:35:14.659 on God's truth and we have hope. And not that 00:35:14.659 --> 00:35:17.559 I said those words, but I'm trying to live it 00:35:17.559 --> 00:35:22.619 out. Yeah. I mean, sometimes living it out makes 00:35:22.619 --> 00:35:24.699 such a big difference versus actually saying 00:35:24.699 --> 00:35:29.119 it. As Christians, we believe the truth that... 00:35:29.599 --> 00:35:31.420 God will use all things for the good of those 00:35:31.420 --> 00:35:33.079 who love him, right? But when you're in the midst 00:35:33.079 --> 00:35:36.099 of grief, if someone was to say that to you that 00:35:36.099 --> 00:35:41.260 day, you'd be like, oh, I have some choice words 00:35:41.260 --> 00:35:48.019 for you. So sometimes saying those things isn't 00:35:48.019 --> 00:35:52.239 helpful, but showing it in just how you live 00:35:52.239 --> 00:35:57.039 and how you support, I think, is far more impactful. 00:35:58.219 --> 00:36:00.780 What did your relationship with the Lord look 00:36:00.780 --> 00:36:07.320 like throughout maybe from Ellie Jo taking her 00:36:07.320 --> 00:36:11.199 life to now? What has it looked like for you? 00:36:12.659 --> 00:36:18.280 Well, I can definitely say, like, I've been a 00:36:18.280 --> 00:36:21.980 believer since college, but it's one thing to 00:36:21.980 --> 00:36:27.110 say you believe. It's another thing to live something 00:36:27.110 --> 00:36:30.329 like this out and still come out on the other 00:36:30.329 --> 00:36:35.769 side and believe. So I can say, looking back, 00:36:35.869 --> 00:36:39.730 okay, did I build my house on the rock? And do 00:36:39.730 --> 00:36:46.250 I really believe? So I can say I do believe 100%. 00:36:46.250 --> 00:36:50.409 So I can have much more confidence. Now, not 00:36:50.409 --> 00:36:52.710 that I thought I needed more confidence, but... 00:36:53.179 --> 00:36:55.659 It definitely has changed that. It's changed 00:36:55.659 --> 00:37:01.000 my perspective on what's important. Even though 00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:05.059 I had faith in what was important before, even 00:37:05.059 --> 00:37:07.880 though I might have said such and such is important, 00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:12.039 very much I live differently than I did before. 00:37:12.480 --> 00:37:16.480 I was a lot more focused on kids' activities 00:37:16.480 --> 00:37:19.570 and the outward and all of... grades, all of 00:37:19.570 --> 00:37:22.730 that. Whereas, yeah, we still do the things, 00:37:22.849 --> 00:37:26.150 but they're not important anymore. It's more, 00:37:26.150 --> 00:37:32.409 we're, we're doing it. If you go and you don't 00:37:32.409 --> 00:37:33.710 want to do that anymore, we're not doing that 00:37:33.710 --> 00:37:36.010 anymore. You know, I think I pushed a lot more 00:37:36.010 --> 00:37:40.329 before. So, um, definitely perspective and where 00:37:40.329 --> 00:37:44.130 my focus is and like on the day to day. Cause 00:37:44.130 --> 00:37:47.050 I, even though We've walked through that. We 00:37:47.050 --> 00:37:48.909 still have a lot of other hard things we're still 00:37:48.909 --> 00:37:52.610 walking through. Because life still goes on. 00:37:52.989 --> 00:37:55.289 Yeah. That's, I think, one of the hardest things 00:37:55.289 --> 00:38:01.449 about loss is you still have hard days. A day 00:38:01.449 --> 00:38:06.110 that would be a bad day anytime on top of everything 00:38:06.110 --> 00:38:10.010 you're dealing with, the grief, the loss, helping 00:38:10.010 --> 00:38:13.210 your kids. Yeah. And sometimes we say, haven't 00:38:13.210 --> 00:38:16.130 we dealt with it? enough and like now we have 00:38:16.130 --> 00:38:18.510 to deal with this on top of everything else and 00:38:18.510 --> 00:38:22.489 which is I'm reading a book right now about lament 00:38:22.489 --> 00:38:26.409 and that's okay to kind of cry out and I'm to 00:38:26.409 --> 00:38:34.010 God of like then he can handle it and but this 00:38:34.010 --> 00:38:35.929 is part of the process and going back to okay 00:38:35.929 --> 00:38:39.929 what is true and living in the moment with our 00:38:39.929 --> 00:38:41.769 kids and the hard things that they're going through 00:38:41.769 --> 00:38:46.860 and Not being attached to any outcome of what 00:38:46.860 --> 00:38:48.539 it's going to look like 10 years, I don't know 00:38:48.539 --> 00:38:53.420 what it's going to look like. And honestly, it's 00:38:53.420 --> 00:38:55.900 better I don't know because could I do what I'm 00:38:55.900 --> 00:38:59.500 doing today if I knew? Five years before I lost 00:38:59.500 --> 00:39:02.239 Ellie Jo, could I have walked through all that 00:39:02.239 --> 00:39:06.079 knowing the end? But I can do what I need to 00:39:06.079 --> 00:39:12.420 do today, and I have what I need for today. My 00:39:12.420 --> 00:39:16.380 day -to -day is very different. I'm not focused 00:39:16.380 --> 00:39:19.320 on, okay, are you going to go to college and 00:39:19.320 --> 00:39:22.820 get a good job? No, I'm like, okay, today, can 00:39:22.820 --> 00:39:30.500 we love well and can we see God and pointing 00:39:30.500 --> 00:39:36.780 the kids every day to God and to Jesus? So that 00:39:36.780 --> 00:39:40.099 for sure is a big part of what's changed. Which 00:39:40.099 --> 00:39:44.440 is how we should all live too. Right. Yeah. Well, 00:39:44.559 --> 00:39:50.360 and quite honestly, I wouldn't have said I didn't 00:39:50.360 --> 00:39:52.159 live that way before. I would have thought I 00:39:52.159 --> 00:39:55.340 did. I would have said, yes, you know, Jesus 00:39:55.340 --> 00:40:01.199 first. But like literally it is our daily bread. 00:40:01.280 --> 00:40:04.699 Like it is what gets us through every day now. 00:40:07.070 --> 00:40:12.230 I guess it becomes more real in a sense. More 00:40:12.230 --> 00:40:17.510 relying on the Lord each day. Yeah, because physically 00:40:17.510 --> 00:40:21.909 I am. Because if I did not have the hope and 00:40:21.909 --> 00:40:25.949 truth, I don't know how I would have gotten through 00:40:25.949 --> 00:40:29.969 the last four years. And I do have friends that 00:40:29.969 --> 00:40:36.190 have gone through this who don't have that. It 00:40:36.190 --> 00:40:39.210 is really hard to sit and have a conversation 00:40:39.210 --> 00:40:43.510 with somebody who doesn't have that hope and 00:40:43.510 --> 00:40:46.989 to hear despair, whereas I can sit with people 00:40:46.989 --> 00:40:48.510 who've walked through the same thing, who have 00:40:48.510 --> 00:40:51.489 the hope, and you can speak gospel to each other, 00:40:51.530 --> 00:40:56.750 and it is life -giving. So it's, how do you speak? 00:40:57.949 --> 00:41:01.349 that truth to your friends who don't have the 00:41:01.349 --> 00:41:03.369 hope without it being like this preachy annoying 00:41:03.369 --> 00:41:07.269 thing because again like if you're not believing 00:41:07.269 --> 00:41:10.250 then that it almost feels like you're dismissing 00:41:10.250 --> 00:41:12.849 this grief where for you you're like no I know 00:41:12.849 --> 00:41:15.369 this so like how do you provide that support 00:41:15.369 --> 00:41:18.650 then I think the the best thing I can do is share 00:41:18.650 --> 00:41:21.690 my own experience instead of preach to them I 00:41:21.690 --> 00:41:25.789 can just share what my experience has been and 00:41:25.789 --> 00:41:32.050 and where I am. So I, you know, just simple things, 00:41:32.130 --> 00:41:36.050 just encouraging somebody to at least, instead 00:41:36.050 --> 00:41:40.849 of running away, at least, you know, entering 00:41:40.849 --> 00:41:44.929 in and wrestling with it instead of completely 00:41:44.929 --> 00:41:48.889 dismissing is one thing I've tried to do to encourage 00:41:48.889 --> 00:41:53.820 somebody. So what is something you wish someone 00:41:53.820 --> 00:41:58.179 had told you or just that you knew before entering 00:41:58.179 --> 00:42:00.880 into this, before losing a child, going into 00:42:00.880 --> 00:42:04.780 this grief, parenting kids who are grieving? 00:42:05.300 --> 00:42:10.659 What's something you wish you knew? Well, I thought 00:42:10.659 --> 00:42:13.500 about that. And it's kind of funny because I 00:42:13.500 --> 00:42:16.840 did know it, but I didn't do it. And that's take 00:42:16.840 --> 00:42:20.960 care of yourself, right? So that you're able 00:42:20.960 --> 00:42:24.619 to take care of others. But it's so easy to say 00:42:24.619 --> 00:42:28.820 that. It's so hard to do. And I have to literally 00:42:28.820 --> 00:42:33.760 fight for it because every day something comes 00:42:33.760 --> 00:42:37.179 up that's going to seem more urgent than doing 00:42:37.179 --> 00:42:41.099 something to take care of myself. And so I'll 00:42:41.099 --> 00:42:43.699 go and do that because there's like this martyr 00:42:43.699 --> 00:42:47.260 syndrome of I have to do this. No one's going 00:42:47.260 --> 00:42:49.880 to do it. Right. And so that's why literally 00:42:49.880 --> 00:42:55.079 I had to start scheduling it and protecting it 00:42:55.079 --> 00:43:00.619 and say, okay, I'm not going to move this. And 00:43:00.619 --> 00:43:05.599 I had to just do that a little at a time. Yeah, 00:43:05.699 --> 00:43:08.099 I just think it's so important to take care of 00:43:08.099 --> 00:43:11.199 yourself because I was depleted. And because 00:43:11.199 --> 00:43:14.820 I was dealing with grief and just knowing what 00:43:14.820 --> 00:43:16.980 it does to your physical body, it makes you sick. 00:43:17.280 --> 00:43:20.940 Yeah. What is something that you tell someone 00:43:20.940 --> 00:43:23.159 else going through something, the same thing 00:43:23.159 --> 00:43:29.059 or something similar to your story? I would say 00:43:29.059 --> 00:43:34.739 that it's good to be able to receive help. and 00:43:34.739 --> 00:43:37.699 ask for help i'm terrible about asking for help 00:43:37.699 --> 00:43:40.579 but sometimes people want to help but don't know 00:43:40.579 --> 00:43:45.739 what to be specific of what you need so i think 00:43:45.739 --> 00:43:52.739 that's one another is um find I had a lot more 00:43:52.739 --> 00:43:57.280 friends before, but now my circle is a lot smaller 00:43:57.280 --> 00:43:59.940 because I just don't have the margin to have 00:43:59.940 --> 00:44:02.159 a lot of relationships. And I just have a few 00:44:02.159 --> 00:44:05.400 key people that know my story. And they know 00:44:05.400 --> 00:44:08.900 that when I'm having a bad day, I can send a 00:44:08.900 --> 00:44:12.539 simple text. I have one friend, I just send a 00:44:12.539 --> 00:44:15.800 white flag and she knows, just pray because it's 00:44:15.800 --> 00:44:20.860 a terrible day. Just so somebody knows. Find 00:44:20.860 --> 00:44:22.719 your people, somebody who's going to speak gospel 00:44:22.719 --> 00:44:25.900 truth to you and those words of life that you 00:44:25.900 --> 00:44:32.500 need to hear. And I can't say enough. Just some 00:44:32.500 --> 00:44:34.199 people I can call and they can just speak it. 00:44:34.260 --> 00:44:35.820 And I'm like, okay, I can get off the phone. 00:44:35.840 --> 00:44:39.760 It's like, okay, I can keep going. That's awesome. 00:44:40.159 --> 00:44:42.179 Well, are there any last thoughts you have? Anything 00:44:42.179 --> 00:44:45.559 else you'd like to share about your story? Encouragement 00:44:45.559 --> 00:44:51.760 for other moms? Anything like that? Um, I guess 00:44:51.760 --> 00:44:56.719 I would just want to say that when you asked 00:44:56.719 --> 00:45:01.659 me to do this, it struck me because when I was 00:45:01.659 --> 00:45:04.960 young, I never would have talked about something 00:45:04.960 --> 00:45:08.039 like this. So I thought, here you are, you're 00:45:08.039 --> 00:45:11.199 young moms and you've got little babies and you 00:45:11.199 --> 00:45:15.199 want to talk about grief and someone's worst 00:45:15.199 --> 00:45:18.219 nightmare. Which is a beautiful thing because 00:45:18.219 --> 00:45:21.760 you recognize that that's life and that hard 00:45:21.760 --> 00:45:23.500 things are going to happen and you don't know 00:45:23.500 --> 00:45:25.739 when they're going to come. And we don't want 00:45:25.739 --> 00:45:31.840 to live in fear of them and make decisions to 00:45:31.840 --> 00:45:35.679 try to avoid them, but we want to be able to 00:45:35.679 --> 00:45:38.320 talk about them and enter in because that's the 00:45:38.320 --> 00:45:43.539 body and things are going to happen. And I guess 00:45:43.539 --> 00:45:46.349 I would just want to say that I... I was just 00:45:46.349 --> 00:45:48.329 really touched that you want to talk about this 00:45:48.329 --> 00:45:50.630 because that's one thing, a thought that I had 00:45:50.630 --> 00:45:54.630 at one point. I thought, nobody's going to want 00:45:54.630 --> 00:45:58.449 to talk to me about being a mom because what 00:45:58.449 --> 00:46:05.090 would I have to say when this has happened? And 00:46:05.090 --> 00:46:09.769 I don't necessarily believe that lie, but I thought 00:46:09.769 --> 00:46:15.440 no one would want to hear about this. I just 00:46:15.440 --> 00:46:17.500 remember afterwards, somebody looked at me and 00:46:17.500 --> 00:46:19.519 said, you're a really good mom. And I thought, 00:46:19.599 --> 00:46:22.699 what a beautiful thing to say that it's not, 00:46:22.780 --> 00:46:28.380 our kids are not our identities. That they're 00:46:28.380 --> 00:46:31.360 a gift from God that we have a responsibility 00:46:31.360 --> 00:46:34.039 for, but they're going to make choices and they're 00:46:34.039 --> 00:46:36.099 going to do things. And that's not, I'm separate 00:46:36.099 --> 00:46:40.000 from them. It's not my identity. And that I can 00:46:40.000 --> 00:46:43.880 still be a good mom. And have gone through this. 00:46:44.079 --> 00:46:47.059 And so that was such, I didn't even know I needed 00:46:47.059 --> 00:46:50.179 to hear that. But it was such a gift. That's 00:46:50.179 --> 00:46:52.980 such good wisdom to just hold on to. Like, oh 00:46:52.980 --> 00:46:56.219 yeah, my kids are going to do things that I don't 00:46:56.219 --> 00:47:00.380 agree with. And I just, I have to still love 00:47:00.380 --> 00:47:02.579 them. Or I get to choose to still love them. 00:47:03.119 --> 00:47:06.500 But it doesn't say anything about me necessarily. 00:47:07.099 --> 00:47:11.309 Yeah. And it's part of their process of. finding 00:47:11.309 --> 00:47:13.409 their way and they're going to need a savior. 00:47:13.469 --> 00:47:17.769 It's their story that's going to lead them to 00:47:17.769 --> 00:47:20.269 Jesus. So we're not there to make them perfect 00:47:20.269 --> 00:47:22.789 so that they don't need Jesus. Right. Exactly. 00:47:23.070 --> 00:47:25.929 Yeah. And that's going to make everyone miserable 00:47:25.929 --> 00:47:31.550 trying to make your kids perfect. Right? It's 00:47:31.550 --> 00:47:34.789 so true. And I have to have this conversation 00:47:34.789 --> 00:47:38.570 with myself all the time. And the other thing 00:47:38.570 --> 00:47:43.809 I would say is just, about grief is that it's 00:47:43.809 --> 00:47:46.269 not something in my life before I would have 00:47:46.269 --> 00:47:50.030 avoided it because I had a lot of things to grieve 00:47:50.030 --> 00:47:54.090 in my life, but I avoided it. And now I don't 00:47:54.090 --> 00:47:57.349 run from it anymore. Like I can enter into it. 00:47:57.409 --> 00:48:01.530 I can be with somebody who has lost. And so it's 00:48:01.530 --> 00:48:05.510 given me a gift of seeing people and seeing grief 00:48:05.510 --> 00:48:08.250 differently and seeing it as an invitation into 00:48:08.250 --> 00:48:10.860 something. instead of something to be avoided. 00:48:11.179 --> 00:48:14.599 So it invites you into some really beautiful 00:48:14.599 --> 00:48:19.400 things about the gospel and about God. That's 00:48:19.400 --> 00:48:21.880 awesome. Yeah, I know kind of going back to what 00:48:21.880 --> 00:48:24.539 you were saying about just asking you to be on 00:48:24.539 --> 00:48:28.960 is, I mean, a big purpose for us is just motherhood 00:48:28.960 --> 00:48:31.179 is really hard. And there are so many things 00:48:31.179 --> 00:48:33.199 we just don't talk about. And so you feel so 00:48:33.199 --> 00:48:37.530 alone. And I think your story is... so important 00:48:37.530 --> 00:48:40.050 in that of like other moms have lost their children 00:48:40.050 --> 00:48:44.349 maybe not in the same way but hearing your hope 00:48:44.349 --> 00:48:48.670 and that four years later it's still hard you 00:48:48.670 --> 00:48:51.610 know it's not you didn't grieve and now you're 00:48:51.610 --> 00:48:54.389 over it and everything's good it's it's still 00:48:54.389 --> 00:48:57.349 hard but you still have this daily hope and you 00:48:57.349 --> 00:48:59.369 have days that are hard that you need extra support 00:48:59.369 --> 00:49:02.869 you have days that you're good and You know, 00:49:02.869 --> 00:49:06.409 life feels happy again for that moment. And I 00:49:06.409 --> 00:49:08.989 think other moms who are grieving, again, for 00:49:08.989 --> 00:49:12.449 whatever reason, need to hear that. And some 00:49:12.449 --> 00:49:14.969 of them just don't have people, which is really 00:49:14.969 --> 00:49:17.369 sad. And I hope they can find that community. 00:49:17.449 --> 00:49:19.969 But we hope that this is, like, a good first 00:49:19.969 --> 00:49:23.670 step of knowing that it's not just them. Yeah. 00:49:24.030 --> 00:49:28.090 That's great. Well, do we want to move on to 00:49:28.090 --> 00:49:32.329 our Mom Wins of the Week? I would love to. To 00:49:32.329 --> 00:49:36.829 go first, if that's okay. Go for it. Okay. So 00:49:36.829 --> 00:49:44.690 Colt and Cruz, they're 19 months apart. And we 00:49:44.690 --> 00:49:47.789 decided, well, we didn't decide. My best friend 00:49:47.789 --> 00:49:51.969 got married in the middle of April. And so we 00:49:51.969 --> 00:49:55.250 had to take a little family trip up to Estes 00:49:55.250 --> 00:49:57.369 Park, which was great. It's beautiful there. 00:49:58.920 --> 00:50:03.820 Really, my win from that is it was our first 00:50:03.820 --> 00:50:07.539 family trip, like, away altogether. We had some 00:50:07.539 --> 00:50:10.639 other family members helping us, too. But I heard 00:50:10.639 --> 00:50:13.199 this quote. I think it was on Instagram or something 00:50:13.199 --> 00:50:17.239 like that of just, like, this family who travels 00:50:17.239 --> 00:50:21.000 with little kids. And I know you mentioned earlier, 00:50:21.159 --> 00:50:24.539 too, how difficult it is to do all that. And 00:50:24.539 --> 00:50:27.599 it was extremely difficult. But this reel that 00:50:27.599 --> 00:50:30.539 I saw, it was, like, we get no sleep at home, 00:50:30.639 --> 00:50:33.239 so why not just get no sleep in a beautiful place? 00:50:33.840 --> 00:50:37.260 I was like, yeah, that's fair. So, yeah, the 00:50:37.260 --> 00:50:40.039 win was, I mean, it was a really hard trip, but 00:50:40.039 --> 00:50:42.619 it was also so good. And, like, memories that 00:50:42.619 --> 00:50:45.800 Michael and I get to hold on to, not necessarily 00:50:45.800 --> 00:50:47.920 the kids, they're not going to remember it, but, 00:50:47.920 --> 00:50:51.599 like, the pictures and just, yeah, the little 00:50:51.599 --> 00:50:53.519 moments that we had together as a family were 00:50:53.519 --> 00:50:56.719 so great. And I feel like I'll get to hold on 00:50:56.719 --> 00:51:00.139 to those forever. So that's my win of the week. 00:51:00.539 --> 00:51:03.460 Erica, do you want to share yours? Yeah. Mine 00:51:03.460 --> 00:51:05.619 actually kind of goes kind of with what you were 00:51:05.619 --> 00:51:08.460 talking about, Stephanie, of just not prioritizing 00:51:08.460 --> 00:51:10.960 things that don't need to be prioritized, I guess. 00:51:11.380 --> 00:51:13.800 So most weeks I'm really good with chores. Like 00:51:13.800 --> 00:51:16.280 if I get all my laundry, all of it washed on 00:51:16.280 --> 00:51:18.860 Monday, all the laundry washed on Monday, I can 00:51:18.860 --> 00:51:21.000 get everything folded and put away by like Wednesday. 00:51:21.539 --> 00:51:23.679 And I had a week. That's pretty good. That was 00:51:23.679 --> 00:51:26.079 just not going to happen. I was like, I think 00:51:26.079 --> 00:51:28.780 I got one load done on Monday. And so by the 00:51:28.780 --> 00:51:31.119 time it's like Thursday or Friday, I'm finally 00:51:31.119 --> 00:51:33.400 getting anything folded. And Lloyd just like 00:51:33.400 --> 00:51:35.840 kept coming up to me wanting to read books. And 00:51:35.840 --> 00:51:38.559 my normal response is like, I have to get laundry 00:51:38.559 --> 00:51:40.519 folded. I don't want it sitting in my room anymore. 00:51:40.780 --> 00:51:44.199 I just want to put away and like not being annoyed 00:51:44.199 --> 00:51:46.260 with him for wanting to read books, but just 00:51:46.260 --> 00:51:48.400 like being annoyed that my attention is being 00:51:48.400 --> 00:51:49.940 pulled from this thing that I want to get done. 00:51:50.400 --> 00:51:52.980 And for some reason on this day, I was just like, 00:51:52.980 --> 00:51:56.000 you know what? laundry can wait and we're gonna 00:51:56.000 --> 00:51:59.559 read books and we just did and laundry ended 00:51:59.559 --> 00:52:02.940 up getting done eventually and yeah i think my 00:52:02.940 --> 00:52:05.760 natural attitude is to like chores need to get 00:52:05.760 --> 00:52:09.980 done that's important and not prioritizing the 00:52:09.980 --> 00:52:11.980 like little moments like reading llama llama 00:52:11.980 --> 00:52:15.719 for the hundredth time because because that's 00:52:15.719 --> 00:52:18.940 what he wants to do Yeah. That's so sweet. What 00:52:18.940 --> 00:52:20.460 about you, Stephanie? What's your win this week? 00:52:20.679 --> 00:52:23.199 Well, it's not this week. That's fine. Oh, it's 00:52:23.199 --> 00:52:25.480 actually last month. Okay, great. That's great. 00:52:25.719 --> 00:52:29.460 So Easter morning, I still do Easter baskets 00:52:29.460 --> 00:52:33.099 for all of them all the way up to 22, hopefully. 00:52:33.179 --> 00:52:35.659 I'm not ruining anyone's Easter bunny experience. 00:52:35.880 --> 00:52:39.480 But I woke up this year and I went outside my 00:52:39.480 --> 00:52:43.760 door and my two little kids had, they hadn't 00:52:43.760 --> 00:52:45.179 got, they don't have a way to go to the store 00:52:45.179 --> 00:52:47.199 and buy me a gift, but they had, each written 00:52:47.199 --> 00:52:51.699 me a note for Easter. And it wasn't just a note. 00:52:51.780 --> 00:52:55.760 It was like in their best handwriting and just 00:52:55.760 --> 00:52:58.519 thanking me for loving and supporting them and 00:52:58.519 --> 00:53:01.400 wanting to take me with their own money to go 00:53:01.400 --> 00:53:03.659 do something. And that was like their way of 00:53:03.659 --> 00:53:06.820 giving an Easter basket to me. That's so sweet. 00:53:07.400 --> 00:53:11.260 I was just so touched because it's been a really, 00:53:11.300 --> 00:53:15.639 really hard couple of months of discipline. And 00:53:15.639 --> 00:53:21.099 my son, who is really in trouble a lot, said 00:53:21.099 --> 00:53:26.179 thank you for being supportive. And, you know, 00:53:26.199 --> 00:53:30.610 you don't hear that at 13. I wasn't expecting 00:53:30.610 --> 00:53:33.369 to hear that until, like, maybe 30. Yeah, you 00:53:33.369 --> 00:53:36.010 don't expect your 13 -year -old son to say thanks, 00:53:36.130 --> 00:53:37.730 Mom. And then, of course, the next week was really 00:53:37.730 --> 00:53:41.250 hard again. But I will take that moment. Isn't 00:53:41.250 --> 00:53:43.309 that just, like, the point right there? Like, 00:53:43.369 --> 00:53:46.210 when things like that happen, I'm sure that's 00:53:46.210 --> 00:53:48.730 just a great reminder and a little, like, moment 00:53:48.730 --> 00:53:52.949 for you to be like, okay, I remember why, like, 00:53:52.969 --> 00:53:57.170 motherhood is so... beautiful and joyful and 00:53:57.170 --> 00:54:00.530 yeah with all the heart and there's little glimpses 00:54:00.530 --> 00:54:03.670 of good too yeah and what was so beautiful was 00:54:03.670 --> 00:54:07.889 that it it was unexpected it was easter like 00:54:07.889 --> 00:54:09.929 i would have expected that on mother's day right 00:54:09.929 --> 00:54:13.269 yeah yeah yeah it was easter and he knew i was 00:54:13.269 --> 00:54:15.989 gonna give him a gift and wanted to wanted to 00:54:15.989 --> 00:54:18.309 give back so that's so sweet and that also shows 00:54:18.309 --> 00:54:21.059 your impact of continuing to do easter baskets 00:54:21.059 --> 00:54:24.539 even if they don't know or they know and don't 00:54:24.539 --> 00:54:26.159 care about the easter bunny anymore just like 00:54:26.159 --> 00:54:28.739 we gift because we love each other yeah like 00:54:28.739 --> 00:54:30.320 they've clearly learned that from you which is 00:54:30.320 --> 00:54:33.400 awesome yeah sweet well thank you so much for 00:54:33.400 --> 00:54:37.019 being on and sharing your story and the beauty 00:54:37.019 --> 00:54:40.480 and all of the grief and all the challenges and 00:54:40.480 --> 00:54:44.619 tears and hardness of that um we really hope 00:54:44.619 --> 00:54:48.400 that it touches other moms and They get some 00:54:48.400 --> 00:54:50.940 hope from listening to you. Yeah, I hope so. 00:54:50.960 --> 00:54:54.219 Thank you. Thank you. Well, thanks for listening. 00:54:55.099 --> 00:54:57.860 Please rate, review, subscribe, and we will see 00:54:57.860 --> 00:54:59.360 you next week. See you next week.