Hi moms and no manual listeners. Before we get
started today, we wanted to take a moment to
let you know that our conversation this week
is going to involve the topics of child loss
and suicide. We hope that you listen with discretion.
Hi everyone, welcome back to No Manual, a momcast.
My name is Laura, this is Erica, and we're so
happy that you are listening today and hopefully
tuning in on your drive to work. Maybe you're
at work, maybe you're at home with your kids.
Yeah, glad you're listening today. And we have
a very special guest here with us, Stephanie.
And Stephanie, we'd love for you to introduce
yourself. My name is Stephanie and I have lived
in Colorado for 27 years and I'm originally from
New Mexico. I've been married for 27 years and
I have four children, a 22 -year -old son in
chiropractic school and I have a 13 -year -old
son and a 12 -year -old daughter and I lost a
daughter four years ago to suicide so she would
be 21 at this point. So currently I teach Spanish
part -time to high schoolers. So we like to start
each episode with a mom moment. Laura, do you
want me to start? As Cruz is choking. Okay, I'll
start with my mom moment then. So this week,
and this is actually not just this week, so we've
made an effort not to show our kids music because
we don't like kids music, so we don't want to
be annoyed. So we've shown Lloyd all sorts of
stuff, and the song that he has fixated on is
Barbara Ann by the Beach Boys. That's amazing.
So he'll say, ba -ba -ba, and that's the way
he requests Barbara Ann. At this point, like
I have a count each day for like how many times
we actually play it. Today we played it three
different times, but he'll request it all day
long. That's the only song he wants to listen
to is Barbara Ann by the Beach Boys. I mean,
there could be worse. There could be much worse.
I'm taking it. Yeah. And it's like four minutes
long. So at least like if it repeats, it's not
every 30 seconds. So I'm taking that. Yeah, that's
fair. My mom moment. So I'm like fully in adjusting
to two under two right now. And with that, as
you both know, comes a lot of sleep deprivation.
And really my mom moment is so Colt, who's our
oldest, is not sleeping well. I think he's like
regressing because of this big change and just.
having a lot of separation anxiety in the night
too, poor buddy. But I was talking to one of
my friends about it and she's like, how, like,
how has it been with sleep? And I was like, you
know, it's not terrible this time around because
I feel like we never got out of sleep deprivation
from our first. And then you just kind of, you
just go into it again. And so I think like, My
body is just like used to the sleep deprivation
and waking up like every two or three hours.
And it's like when I finally get up for the morning,
it's like I know I just like I chug my coffee
and I just move on with my day. And yeah, really
my mom moment is just like sleep deprivation
is hard, but it hasn't been as hard this time.
I don't know if you feel that way. Zeta's been
a better sleeper, but yeah, I think you're more
used to it. Yeah. Stephanie, what about you?
What's your mom moment? Well, I guess I would
say mine was I walked in today and had given
you a picture of my family and you gave me my
mom moment that I have a child. Actually, I have
two that hate to have their picture taken. And
so in almost all of our family pictures, somebody
looks mad as standing off to the side with arms
crossed. And so it just is just a funny thing
that all of our memories. You can just see who's
in the bad mood that day standing off to the
side. And I just think someday they're going
to look back on those pictures and hopefully
laugh at how hard they were to get a picture.
I really don't have good family pictures because
it is so hard to get them to smile and engage
in a picture. That's funny. It's something that
I could just look and laugh at now. Yeah. So
Stephanie, you introduced your family a little
bit. You have four kids. Tell us more about your
family and just your family dynamic. Well, we
had our kids, our first two really close together.
They were 13 months apart. And so it was like
we had two and then a big long break and then
two more after that. And so I feel like each
of them kind of buddied up, which was great.
Well, so my oldest son is, he's super funny,
but he is not extroverted at all, very shy. And
so he's very comfortable in our family. But if
we go out into a crowd, he's very quiet, very
hard to get to know, which is so funny to see
the contrast because he's so funny. But I don't
know that he knows. No one gets to see it. Yeah,
no one gets to see how funny he is. His journey's
been really interesting to see him try to find
his way and what he wants to do. So he's gonna
be a chiropractor now. So that's so fun because
he's benefited from that his whole life and now
he's found something he's excited to do. So we're
really happy to see him. on a good trajectory.
And the younger two, they're totally different
because the older two were very, they were homeschooled,
they were very mature and responsible and just
had a very different childhood, whereas the younger
two have been in school from the beginning. And
I feel like... They're very much more the babies.
And, you know, where they're 12 and 13 now, I
won't leave them alone very long. Whereas when
Cody and Ellie do, I would leave them alone with
two babies for, you know, we would go on a date.
And it's just so funny just how the different
personalities are for older kids and younger
kids. But the younger two are super social, probably
a lot more than the older two. They have to constantly
be with friends and will talk your ear off. And
it definitely was hard having the two because
you kind of got to an easy place in life where
we were doing things and then we had to start
all over. What's the age gap again? Let's see.
So eight years. We had eight. So Ellie Jo was
eight when Charlie was born. Wow. That's a huge.
It's huge. And honestly, it was not. We were
in the adoption process, and we were adopting
internationally a sibling group. Okay. And then
I got pregnant, and so we had to back out and
got pregnant again right away. It's just kind
of funny to think. Like, we three times got pregnant
and were surprised by it, which. It's kind of
embarrassing to say like you wouldn't know that
that's going to happen, but twice breastfeeding.
Yeah. Yep. But it's definitely hard because we
would try to keep doing the things we've been
doing and camping, and it just did not go well
for us. Right, when you have littles, then all
of a sudden it's a whole different ballgame.
Some people do it, but we did not thrive. We
tried, and it was just like, nope, we're just...
We're homebodies right now. Yeah, we were for
a long time. Or finding a game you could play
or a movie you could watch. It just, everything
definitely felt a lot harder. Yeah. for quite
a number of years yeah I bet that sounds hard
I feel like it's hard for me right extra hard
especially to keep my toddler entertained yeah
and then yeah making sure the baby's tended to
and so I can't imagine with four with that big
of an age gap too and then you even just talking
about the sleep deprivation I can't imagine like
eight years eight years old you've gotten past
that they're like sleeping on their own they're
pretty independent obviously they still need
mom and dad but like fairly independent and then
all of a sudden you're back to square one of
breastfeeding and getting up at night and diapers
and all the things yeah but I had two helpers
and they were very helpful kids so yeah that
also makes a difference that makes a difference
for sure so tell us about Ellie Jo So Ellie Jo
was a dream kid. She was super responsible. She
was kind. She was a great student, just very
bright. And she was the kind of kid when she
turned 12, started babysitting, you know, everyone
would want her to be the babysitter because she
would clean your kitchen. Just like she was a
dream child. Just so, so easy, easy to be around
and everything you would want in a daughter.
So what was she like then going into her teen
years? Did that continue? Did things change?
It continued. She went through puberty later,
and so she very much was still a little girl,
even in her early teens. She was still playing
with dolls, and she just had this innocence about
her. So I would say about the time she went into
puberty is about when there was a change. And
not to say that's what caused it, but it was
about that time. And quite honestly, from an
external perspective, I didn't see anything.
It was more she actually went to her youth group
leader and shared a struggle that she was having
specifically with not wanting to eat was the
first. way that it came out. And so her youth
group leader encouraged her to come talk to me,
which she did. And so that was the first time
that there was a sign that there was something
starting to go on. What else started to change?
So this is the first thing. Was it like consecutive,
like lots of things started to change or was
it like a slow? It was very slow. And so we just,
we mostly talked about it and talked about, should
we go talk with somebody? And we just kind of
dialogued throughout the year about it and nothing
really changed. It was just more, it was a spoken
thing now. So I still wasn't alarmed. So it was
probably another full year when she came back
and it was getting bigger and she was starting
to feel an urge to harm herself, like to cut.
And she hadn't done anything at that point, but
she just was feeling this urge. So that's when
we went outside of our family to try to get some
help. So Ellie Jo, did she come to you first
or did she go to someone else to talk about,
to let them know? That time I think she came
to me first. Okay. Yeah. And it was really interesting.
She didn't come talk to me. She wrote me a letter.
Gotcha. Because it was hard for her to even say.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that's really cool
that you have a relationship with her that. Even
if it's like, this is hard for me to say face
-to -face. Like there are so many things that
are hard to say face -to -face, right? Just in
general. Yeah. That she found a way to communicate
like, hey, this is something I'm struggling with.
And she still felt comfortable talking to you
even if it's like this face -to -face thing isn't
what's going to work for me right now. Right,
for sure. So did that, so you said you ended
up going outside of the family. Did you get her
a counselor, a therapist? Yeah, we went and found.
A counselor for her to talk to. And how'd that
go? That was really hard because by that time
I think she was 15. And so just the way that
it works legally, it's very private. Yeah, they
can't tell you a lot past a certain age, right?
Yeah, and so that felt really gross to me because
I wanted it to... We were able to navigate that,
but it just felt like you're sending your child
to talk to somebody and you have no idea what
they're talking about. But I would say that when
she started talking to a counselor, I felt like
things started to escalate pretty quickly. In
a negative way. yeah and just more and more started
coming out and and would almost like change weekly
it was just like this moving target in a sense
of different things so almost felt like the counseling
made it worse rather than better like maybe not
that's from my that's how it felt and it could
be that now all the stuff that was maybe in her
mind was you know getting getting out sure yeah
So how did that, I guess, make you feel as a
mom of like, okay, we did what we think the right
thing is, and now it feels like it's getting
worse? Well, I guess it's hard because you want
to be able to help your kids, right? And it was
very much a helpless feeling in trying to find
the right person to help them. And you start
to question, is this the right person? You know,
you start looking at different medications and
all of there's just so many different things.
And it's not something I'd ever walked through
or knew anybody. I was completely by myself.
And in the middle of it all, COVID happened.
And so it was just added complexity to that made.
I feel like everyone I know, like any struggle
that preexisted COVID just made it worse. Yes.
So had she actually started self -harming at
that point? No. Did she ever actually self -harm?
Yeah, more like I would say in the last few months
of her life is when she did. Okay. So you know
she's struggling. You're doing everything you
can. So had she had any suicide attempts previously?
No. Oh, previous to when she did take her life?
That's a hard one to answer because from my perspective,
I would say no, but from a medical perspective,
they would say yes. So what they define as a
suicide attempt is not what I would have realized
was an attempt. Got it. So in that perspective,
yes, a couple of times, but I didn't know that
that would be defined as that. Got it. That makes
sense. Yeah, I mean, it's hard to tell. Like,
you know your kid differently than... than doctors
do or than medical is defined. So tell us about
the day that she did take her life. What did
that look like for your family? What did that
look like for you? When something like that happens,
for one, I didn't ever think she would. I thought
a lot of it was just a cry for help, and she
was getting help. And this was so interesting.
A lot of things you learn on the other side of
it. But like she was actually doing really well.
Like physically she looked healthier. You know,
sometimes when you're going through depression,
you maybe don't take care of yourself. And so
she had been dressing a little different and
just looked a little darker. And she changed.
She started, you know, dressing better and looking.
better. She was making long -term plans. She
had a whole spreadsheet of college applications
and had applied for a job. She was going to work
at Hydra Haji for the summer and had been accepted
for that. She was entering a pageant. I mean,
all these things that you would look at and think,
okay, you're doing really well and you are making
long -term plans. And so to me, it from the outside
looked like she was well but now from when I'm
talking to other people a lot of times when somebody
is depressed they and they've made a decision
to do something they feel lighter and so they
look like they're doing better but it's because
they've made a decision wow yeah and I mean I
won't ever know because there's no no notes or
no documentation but But what's interesting and
surprising to me is that one of my first reactions
that day wasn't grief or what you would think.
My first reaction was my other kids. And I think
because I've known stories of people, that was
basically the first thing I did was to get them
into a safe space so that to minimize the trauma.
That they would experience. It's inevitable.
Right. So I got them to a place where then my
husband and I could figure out what to do so
that everybody was gone. So that was my first
reaction, to be able to get resources and to
help us navigate this. Because I don't know why
I knew this, but you hear stories of somebody
who's had a traumatic experience. live at that
age that that happened. And so I had that in
my mind. And so, which is so odd to me, but I
guess your mind does weird things, right? When
you're dealing with something like this, you
don't know what your body and your mind are going
to do to take over. And so what was that safe
place for your kids then? My next door neighbor.
Yeah. So you just kind of like shuffled them
all over to the neighbor's house. Cody was at
school. Yeah, and so he was there for a little
bit, and then we were able to bring everybody
together and had a plan on how to communicate,
which that's a blessing of being in the church
is you have Lisa, you know, so we've got resources,
and she knows so much and knew, you know, how
do you tell your children. Yeah. What do you
say? So she was able to give me words that I
didn't have. That's super awesome. Yeah. So what
did telling your other kids look like then? So
the younger two, they're still fairly young at
this. That's four years ago. I want to say seven
and eight. Yeah. Wow. Okay. Yeah. That feels
right. Yeah. Or something like that. Yeah. So
young. They were very young. And they were very
close to her. And so their reactions were very
different. And they can't really understand.
They had never lost anybody. So they didn't even
have a context for this. Whereas Ruby, my daughter,
was just like denial. And then my son, Charlie,
just ran to his room and got into bed. So I think
maybe he understood more. And I think for Cody,
it was just more just shock and kind of shut
down. So they all just reacted in a different
way in the moment. I can't imagine. Like, that
would almost be harder for me, I think. is yeah
you have to tell your other kids right it's and
trying to protect them but they need to know
the truth right and what does that look like
at this point for you were you I'm sure you were
just like in shock and yeah and probably it still
hadn't quite hit you right what had happened
right at what moment do you feel like it did
hit you it I think so there's like a Long history
with why this moment was the moment that I was
able to, like, let it hit what had happened is
then I had to call my family out of state. And
so I called my sister, and her reaction kind
of gave me permission. And so I was able to cry
for the first time with her. Yeah. Which was,
it's just so weird, like, to look at and say,
I couldn't even cry. But then when she cried,
it helped me to. to let it out. Yeah. And some
of that goes to my childhood, right? And just
trauma from childhood and grief and all of that
and not, you know, being the one that has to
hold it together. And so that's how I did it.
I held it together. But then you have other people
that kind of bring it out of you and help you
too. For sure. And like you said, it's almost
like permission of like, no, you're allowed to
be sad. You should be sad. Yeah. Yeah, I know.
So I knew Ellie Jo fairly well and I felt kind
of the same way, obviously very different. But
my mom called me to let me know and she's like,
are you OK? And I was like, well, obviously no.
But I like couldn't cry until I talked to someone
else on the phone. And then as soon as I talked
to Carly, it was like just a mess. So and I don't
know what it is about certain people that just.
allow you to experience that differently and
almost get out of the shock factor and into like
your real emotions of this trauma. Yeah. So what
has this like grief and healing been like for
your journey? It's a lot longer than, I mean,
it's a lifelong journey. So I'm four years in.
And I think part of the reason it's so long is
that I have really had to focus so much on my
kids and trying to keep them moving forward.
So I think I've known other people in my same
situation, and I don't think any of them had
kids at home still. And so when we talk about
our experiences, it's so different, which I think
in some ways it was helpful because it gave me
a reason to get up in the morning and get out
of bed because I had to for them. You have these
people who still need you. Yeah, very much so.
Whereas if I didn't, I could have just stayed
in bed and probably would have for a long time.
And so I very much had to keep moving. But that
also can be not great because I'm so worried
about taking care of everybody else that I'm
not taking care of myself. So now, more years
down the road, I'm able to do that a little bit
more because they're older and it's like, okay,
we're going to be okay. And so now I better take
care of myself because there's a lot to deal
with. So, yeah, how do you take care of yourself
when you're grieving, when you have kids that
need you? All of that. Now I have my kids in
school. full time now and I work part time. So
now on my days off, I just try to schedule things
for myself and I had to actually schedule them
to make them happen. So I try to exercise so
that I'm moving and I have a good group of friends
that know my story and some of them who have
been through the same thing. And so spending
time with, with people and just doing things
that I can enjoy and One is playing pickleball,
just being outside and moving and being with
people that I can laugh with. So that's the biggest
thing. And reading has been really helpful, reading
stories. There's a lot of great books that I've
read that are helpful to hear other people's
journeys and that you can relate to. How do you
feel like you, okay, so you're helping yourself.
As much as you can. Right. And then alongside
of that, you're having to help your kids grieve
too. What did that look like? That is really
hard because you can't make somebody grieve.
True. And you can't make them talk about it.
And which is my experience. I had loss when I
was a child and never learned how to grieve.
And so. I guess the first thing I did was I got
the younger ones a counselor. My older son, it
was right before he graduated high school, and
he was going away. And he very much was not open
to talking to anybody. And then my younger son
went to see somebody but wouldn't talk. And then
my daughter went, and she would do play therapy.
She wanted to talk to me. She didn't want to
talk to a therapist. And so she was very verbal
and would talk to me all the time. So I was able
to process with her, whereas my boys do not want
to talk about it. So we can talk about her and
share stories about her, but they don't want
to talk about their grief or their feelings.
So my belief is there will come a time where
they will need to. And we talk and share so they
know that we can talk about it. It's not something
we don't talk about. But I cannot make them.
And I know that that's really hard to watch and
know that they're hurting. can't process that
yeah when you love someone especially as a parent
you just want to fix it and it's really hard
when whatever it is you can't fix nope and you
just have to be there for whenever they're ready
right to decide that they need it they need your
help whatever that may look like so you said
ruby likes to talk to you how do you manage being
able to verbally process with her without also
pouring like because obviously as a parent it's
inappropriate for us to use our kids as therapists
right so how do you handle like connecting with
her and kind of having this like yeah I miss
LA Joe too and like that kind of connection without
overdoing it so that way it's like almost like
you're trauma dumping on your other child who
Who's going to her mom for support. Right. Well,
and it's been really interesting because we grieve
very differently. And so I wanted to try to model
a little bit for her that, you know, that is
okay and it's okay to talk about. But we've had
really interesting conversations because for
me, I know some people would want to keep the
room exactly as it was, and that was not how
I was. I wanted to take pieces of her room and
give it to people that loved her. But what I
immediately found was that Ruby needed her room
to stay as it was. And so we had to work, talk
about that. It was just really interesting because
I thought, oh, I'm her mom. I'm going to give
this to Ellie Jo's friend. And Ruby was hysterical.
And I just was so caught off guard. And so we
just had to kind of learn. And I would share
with her that this is something I want to do
in a way that helps me to grieve. But I deferred
to her, so I kept things more as they were. I
think it's been just more of a conversation and
sharing. And what's hard is as Ruby's gotten
older, she talks less and less. Because, yeah,
she's 12 now? She's 12, yeah. So she's also just
starting to get to the age where she's going
to talk to you less. Right. Just because she's
12. Right. Is that tough then that you're just
having less conversations or does it feel really
natural? I mean, it feels natural, but it also,
I can bring it up whenever, you know, so, and
there's just the rhythms of the year when it
naturally comes up. Like we just had Elijah's
birthday and we just had the four year anniversary.
And so it just naturally will come up on those
days. And so we've talked more recently. So going
through all this, you're still a parent and they're
still kids. What does just like day to day parenting
look like? while you're grieving, while your
kids are grieving, but they're still, you know,
they're still doing things that they're not supposed
to do because they're kids and you still have
to do just normal parenting tasks. What does
that look like? I think, I think it's been, it's
been hard because I, after losing Ellie Jo, I
definitely was different and, and I was, I was
tired and I was, I was physically feeling sick
because I wasn't taking care of myself. And so.
It's been a process of kind of giving yourself
permission that you're just kind of a mess a
little bit, and it's okay to be a mess, and we're
all just a mess right now, and just being okay
with that, that it's not going to be pretty.
But also I have to do a lot of work to recognize
that, you know, sometimes if I'm shorter than
I used to be. that that's something I need to
work on. And so that's why I say I'm having to
really do a lot of work because I did not take
care of myself those first, I don't know, even
a couple of years because I was so focused on
the other kids and getting them to move forward.
So it definitely is hard because of how I physically
was feeling. But I guess what I was going to
say is, Learning that you can have both the grief
and joy simultaneously and it's okay to be experiencing
both. It's okay to laugh and share stories. It
doesn't diminish the loss. So what did your support
system look like at the time and then even now
four years later? That's probably one thing that
blew me away was the support system and that
I didn't even know I had. And I think that's
probably what's carried me through is that in
that moment with the worst of the worst, seeing
God's hand and his provision. in ways that i
didn't anticipate where people would show up
and do things that i didn't ask for or literally
i would write something on my grocery list and
someone came to my door with the specific item
i asked for wow so it was just those little details
where just my need moment by moment was not um
i i just And I didn't ever have to ask for anything,
but what I did have to do was be okay receiving.
Because I've not been somebody who has been good
at receiving before, and so I felt very strongly
God telling me that I should not say no to anything
that anybody does. For one, it's his way of providing
for us in this time. And we don't even know what
we need, right? You think, oh, I don't need that.
And then you realize I really needed that because
you are so used to being self -sufficient. Yeah.
And also other people need to do something that
gives them something to do with their grief.
And so I don't want to steal that from other
people. So I just can't even tell you the number
of ways that people did things that were specific
to their gifting. And their way of expressing
love. And some of it, like one young girl drew
a sketch of Ellie Joy and brought it to my house.
And so I have that in my house now. Somebody
else painted a picture. Even just those little
things that I have reminders in my home now.
And it's a reminder of Ellie Joy, but it's also
a reminder of the love that people have. the
importance of showing up for people even though
it's hard and um even though you think i don't
know what to do but sometimes it's just whatever
god has gifted you with that i never would have
thought i mean i'm not an artist but i would
never have thought that that would bless someone
to draw a picture and give it to them it blessed
me and in amazing ways or just showing up with
a box of tea or just little things just to show
constantly that we see you we're here again stepping
in I was teaching at the time and I stayed home
for three weeks I had a teacher to go write all
my lesson plans for me for the rest of the year
so that because I wanted to go back I felt like
I needed to go back and so I just literally would
walk into the classroom and I would open the
lesson plans that she wrote and I would just
read what she wrote just Just to be able to stand
there and do my job. And because I wanted, I
needed to keep moving forward. And I kind of,
in a sense, felt like I needed to be there. And
I wanted to be there for the other kids. Because
they had all lost. Ellie chose all my students.
I had to walk into the class where she was. Wow.
And teach. But I felt like I needed to do that
for them. Instead of it just happened and you
never see our family again. We needed to be a
model that we're okay and that we're standing
on God's truth and we have hope. And not that
I said those words, but I'm trying to live it
out. Yeah. I mean, sometimes living it out makes
such a big difference versus actually saying
it. As Christians, we believe the truth that...
God will use all things for the good of those
who love him, right? But when you're in the midst
of grief, if someone was to say that to you that
day, you'd be like, oh, I have some choice words
for you. So sometimes saying those things isn't
helpful, but showing it in just how you live
and how you support, I think, is far more impactful.
What did your relationship with the Lord look
like throughout maybe from Ellie Jo taking her
life to now? What has it looked like for you?
Well, I can definitely say, like, I've been a
believer since college, but it's one thing to
say you believe. It's another thing to live something
like this out and still come out on the other
side and believe. So I can say, looking back,
okay, did I build my house on the rock? And do
I really believe? So I can say I do believe 100%.
So I can have much more confidence. Now, not
that I thought I needed more confidence, but...
It definitely has changed that. It's changed
my perspective on what's important. Even though
I had faith in what was important before, even
though I might have said such and such is important,
very much I live differently than I did before.
I was a lot more focused on kids' activities
and the outward and all of... grades, all of
that. Whereas, yeah, we still do the things,
but they're not important anymore. It's more,
we're, we're doing it. If you go and you don't
want to do that anymore, we're not doing that
anymore. You know, I think I pushed a lot more
before. So, um, definitely perspective and where
my focus is and like on the day to day. Cause
I, even though We've walked through that. We
still have a lot of other hard things we're still
walking through. Because life still goes on.
Yeah. That's, I think, one of the hardest things
about loss is you still have hard days. A day
that would be a bad day anytime on top of everything
you're dealing with, the grief, the loss, helping
your kids. Yeah. And sometimes we say, haven't
we dealt with it? enough and like now we have
to deal with this on top of everything else and
which is I'm reading a book right now about lament
and that's okay to kind of cry out and I'm to
God of like then he can handle it and but this
is part of the process and going back to okay
what is true and living in the moment with our
kids and the hard things that they're going through
and Not being attached to any outcome of what
it's going to look like 10 years, I don't know
what it's going to look like. And honestly, it's
better I don't know because could I do what I'm
doing today if I knew? Five years before I lost
Ellie Jo, could I have walked through all that
knowing the end? But I can do what I need to
do today, and I have what I need for today. My
day -to -day is very different. I'm not focused
on, okay, are you going to go to college and
get a good job? No, I'm like, okay, today, can
we love well and can we see God and pointing
the kids every day to God and to Jesus? So that
for sure is a big part of what's changed. Which
is how we should all live too. Right. Yeah. Well,
and quite honestly, I wouldn't have said I didn't
live that way before. I would have thought I
did. I would have said, yes, you know, Jesus
first. But like literally it is our daily bread.
Like it is what gets us through every day now.
I guess it becomes more real in a sense. More
relying on the Lord each day. Yeah, because physically
I am. Because if I did not have the hope and
truth, I don't know how I would have gotten through
the last four years. And I do have friends that
have gone through this who don't have that. It
is really hard to sit and have a conversation
with somebody who doesn't have that hope and
to hear despair, whereas I can sit with people
who've walked through the same thing, who have
the hope, and you can speak gospel to each other,
and it is life -giving. So it's, how do you speak?
that truth to your friends who don't have the
hope without it being like this preachy annoying
thing because again like if you're not believing
then that it almost feels like you're dismissing
this grief where for you you're like no I know
this so like how do you provide that support
then I think the the best thing I can do is share
my own experience instead of preach to them I
can just share what my experience has been and
and where I am. So I, you know, just simple things,
just encouraging somebody to at least, instead
of running away, at least, you know, entering
in and wrestling with it instead of completely
dismissing is one thing I've tried to do to encourage
somebody. So what is something you wish someone
had told you or just that you knew before entering
into this, before losing a child, going into
this grief, parenting kids who are grieving?
What's something you wish you knew? Well, I thought
about that. And it's kind of funny because I
did know it, but I didn't do it. And that's take
care of yourself, right? So that you're able
to take care of others. But it's so easy to say
that. It's so hard to do. And I have to literally
fight for it because every day something comes
up that's going to seem more urgent than doing
something to take care of myself. And so I'll
go and do that because there's like this martyr
syndrome of I have to do this. No one's going
to do it. Right. And so that's why literally
I had to start scheduling it and protecting it
and say, okay, I'm not going to move this. And
I had to just do that a little at a time. Yeah,
I just think it's so important to take care of
yourself because I was depleted. And because
I was dealing with grief and just knowing what
it does to your physical body, it makes you sick.
Yeah. What is something that you tell someone
else going through something, the same thing
or something similar to your story? I would say
that it's good to be able to receive help. and
ask for help i'm terrible about asking for help
but sometimes people want to help but don't know
what to be specific of what you need so i think
that's one another is um find I had a lot more
friends before, but now my circle is a lot smaller
because I just don't have the margin to have
a lot of relationships. And I just have a few
key people that know my story. And they know
that when I'm having a bad day, I can send a
simple text. I have one friend, I just send a
white flag and she knows, just pray because it's
a terrible day. Just so somebody knows. Find
your people, somebody who's going to speak gospel
truth to you and those words of life that you
need to hear. And I can't say enough. Just some
people I can call and they can just speak it.
And I'm like, okay, I can get off the phone.
It's like, okay, I can keep going. That's awesome.
Well, are there any last thoughts you have? Anything
else you'd like to share about your story? Encouragement
for other moms? Anything like that? Um, I guess
I would just want to say that when you asked
me to do this, it struck me because when I was
young, I never would have talked about something
like this. So I thought, here you are, you're
young moms and you've got little babies and you
want to talk about grief and someone's worst
nightmare. Which is a beautiful thing because
you recognize that that's life and that hard
things are going to happen and you don't know
when they're going to come. And we don't want
to live in fear of them and make decisions to
try to avoid them, but we want to be able to
talk about them and enter in because that's the
body and things are going to happen. And I guess
I would just want to say that I... I was just
really touched that you want to talk about this
because that's one thing, a thought that I had
at one point. I thought, nobody's going to want
to talk to me about being a mom because what
would I have to say when this has happened? And
I don't necessarily believe that lie, but I thought
no one would want to hear about this. I just
remember afterwards, somebody looked at me and
said, you're a really good mom. And I thought,
what a beautiful thing to say that it's not,
our kids are not our identities. That they're
a gift from God that we have a responsibility
for, but they're going to make choices and they're
going to do things. And that's not, I'm separate
from them. It's not my identity. And that I can
still be a good mom. And have gone through this.
And so that was such, I didn't even know I needed
to hear that. But it was such a gift. That's
such good wisdom to just hold on to. Like, oh
yeah, my kids are going to do things that I don't
agree with. And I just, I have to still love
them. Or I get to choose to still love them.
But it doesn't say anything about me necessarily.
Yeah. And it's part of their process of. finding
their way and they're going to need a savior.
It's their story that's going to lead them to
Jesus. So we're not there to make them perfect
so that they don't need Jesus. Right. Exactly.
Yeah. And that's going to make everyone miserable
trying to make your kids perfect. Right? It's
so true. And I have to have this conversation
with myself all the time. And the other thing
I would say is just, about grief is that it's
not something in my life before I would have
avoided it because I had a lot of things to grieve
in my life, but I avoided it. And now I don't
run from it anymore. Like I can enter into it.
I can be with somebody who has lost. And so it's
given me a gift of seeing people and seeing grief
differently and seeing it as an invitation into
something. instead of something to be avoided.
So it invites you into some really beautiful
things about the gospel and about God. That's
awesome. Yeah, I know kind of going back to what
you were saying about just asking you to be on
is, I mean, a big purpose for us is just motherhood
is really hard. And there are so many things
we just don't talk about. And so you feel so
alone. And I think your story is... so important
in that of like other moms have lost their children
maybe not in the same way but hearing your hope
and that four years later it's still hard you
know it's not you didn't grieve and now you're
over it and everything's good it's it's still
hard but you still have this daily hope and you
have days that are hard that you need extra support
you have days that you're good and You know,
life feels happy again for that moment. And I
think other moms who are grieving, again, for
whatever reason, need to hear that. And some
of them just don't have people, which is really
sad. And I hope they can find that community.
But we hope that this is, like, a good first
step of knowing that it's not just them. Yeah.
That's great. Well, do we want to move on to
our Mom Wins of the Week? I would love to. To
go first, if that's okay. Go for it. Okay. So
Colt and Cruz, they're 19 months apart. And we
decided, well, we didn't decide. My best friend
got married in the middle of April. And so we
had to take a little family trip up to Estes
Park, which was great. It's beautiful there.
Really, my win from that is it was our first
family trip, like, away altogether. We had some
other family members helping us, too. But I heard
this quote. I think it was on Instagram or something
like that of just, like, this family who travels
with little kids. And I know you mentioned earlier,
too, how difficult it is to do all that. And
it was extremely difficult. But this reel that
I saw, it was, like, we get no sleep at home,
so why not just get no sleep in a beautiful place?
I was like, yeah, that's fair. So, yeah, the
win was, I mean, it was a really hard trip, but
it was also so good. And, like, memories that
Michael and I get to hold on to, not necessarily
the kids, they're not going to remember it, but,
like, the pictures and just, yeah, the little
moments that we had together as a family were
so great. And I feel like I'll get to hold on
to those forever. So that's my win of the week.
Erica, do you want to share yours? Yeah. Mine
actually kind of goes kind of with what you were
talking about, Stephanie, of just not prioritizing
things that don't need to be prioritized, I guess.
So most weeks I'm really good with chores. Like
if I get all my laundry, all of it washed on
Monday, all the laundry washed on Monday, I can
get everything folded and put away by like Wednesday.
And I had a week. That's pretty good. That was
just not going to happen. I was like, I think
I got one load done on Monday. And so by the
time it's like Thursday or Friday, I'm finally
getting anything folded. And Lloyd just like
kept coming up to me wanting to read books. And
my normal response is like, I have to get laundry
folded. I don't want it sitting in my room anymore.
I just want to put away and like not being annoyed
with him for wanting to read books, but just
like being annoyed that my attention is being
pulled from this thing that I want to get done.
And for some reason on this day, I was just like,
you know what? laundry can wait and we're gonna
read books and we just did and laundry ended
up getting done eventually and yeah i think my
natural attitude is to like chores need to get
done that's important and not prioritizing the
like little moments like reading llama llama
for the hundredth time because because that's
what he wants to do Yeah. That's so sweet. What
about you, Stephanie? What's your win this week?
Well, it's not this week. That's fine. Oh, it's
actually last month. Okay, great. That's great.
So Easter morning, I still do Easter baskets
for all of them all the way up to 22, hopefully.
I'm not ruining anyone's Easter bunny experience.
But I woke up this year and I went outside my
door and my two little kids had, they hadn't
got, they don't have a way to go to the store
and buy me a gift, but they had, each written
me a note for Easter. And it wasn't just a note.
It was like in their best handwriting and just
thanking me for loving and supporting them and
wanting to take me with their own money to go
do something. And that was like their way of
giving an Easter basket to me. That's so sweet.
I was just so touched because it's been a really,
really hard couple of months of discipline. And
my son, who is really in trouble a lot, said
thank you for being supportive. And, you know,
you don't hear that at 13. I wasn't expecting
to hear that until, like, maybe 30. Yeah, you
don't expect your 13 -year -old son to say thanks,
Mom. And then, of course, the next week was really
hard again. But I will take that moment. Isn't
that just, like, the point right there? Like,
when things like that happen, I'm sure that's
just a great reminder and a little, like, moment
for you to be like, okay, I remember why, like,
motherhood is so... beautiful and joyful and
yeah with all the heart and there's little glimpses
of good too yeah and what was so beautiful was
that it it was unexpected it was easter like
i would have expected that on mother's day right
yeah yeah yeah it was easter and he knew i was
gonna give him a gift and wanted to wanted to
give back so that's so sweet and that also shows
your impact of continuing to do easter baskets
even if they don't know or they know and don't
care about the easter bunny anymore just like
we gift because we love each other yeah like
they've clearly learned that from you which is
awesome yeah sweet well thank you so much for
being on and sharing your story and the beauty
and all of the grief and all the challenges and
tears and hardness of that um we really hope
that it touches other moms and They get some
hope from listening to you. Yeah, I hope so.
Thank you. Thank you. Well, thanks for listening.
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