WEBVTT 00:00:24.039 --> 00:00:27.559 You're listening to Health Lifelines, a podcast 00:00:27.559 --> 00:00:30.519 brought to you by the Lifeguard Approach, your 00:00:30.519 --> 00:00:34.140 trusted source for insights, solutions, and training 00:00:34.140 --> 00:00:36.759 that empower you to become a lifeguard for your 00:00:36.759 --> 00:00:39.579 patient's health and well -being. Hello and welcome 00:00:39.579 --> 00:00:44.119 to the Health Lifelines podcast. I am so excited 00:00:44.119 --> 00:00:47.600 about today's guest because he is someone I'm 00:00:47.600 --> 00:00:50.780 deeply honored to introduce, and it's Dr. Kim 00:00:50.780 --> 00:00:55.159 Cutch. And not only am I excited about this because 00:00:55.159 --> 00:00:59.399 of his groundbreaking contributions to dentistry, 00:01:00.060 --> 00:01:03.079 but because he is also a friend, a mentor, and 00:01:03.079 --> 00:01:06.959 a trusted colleague for over two decades. He's 00:01:06.959 --> 00:01:11.980 a lifelong learner and leader, always asking 00:01:11.980 --> 00:01:15.640 better questions, always searching for a better 00:01:15.640 --> 00:01:19.930 way to care for patients. His work has elevated 00:01:19.930 --> 00:01:24.689 not just science and protocols, but our mindset 00:01:24.689 --> 00:01:30.049 as clinicians, reminding us that curiosity and 00:01:30.049 --> 00:01:34.739 compassion must go hand in hand. So I'm thrilled 00:01:34.739 --> 00:01:37.780 to share this conversation with you today because 00:01:37.780 --> 00:01:42.019 I know it will challenge and inspire you just 00:01:42.019 --> 00:01:46.000 as Dr. Kutch has challenged and inspired me over 00:01:46.000 --> 00:01:51.099 the years. So Dr. Kim Kutch, welcome to the conversation. 00:01:52.090 --> 00:01:53.829 Well, thank you, Chris. And thank you for that 00:01:53.829 --> 00:01:57.310 wonderful, warm welcome. I really admire and 00:01:57.310 --> 00:02:00.290 respect you. And we've been friends for over 00:02:00.290 --> 00:02:02.930 20 years. And so it's really a privilege for 00:02:02.930 --> 00:02:04.950 me to be here with you today and with your audience. 00:02:05.670 --> 00:02:08.830 Well, thank you. I've got to dive deep into this. 00:02:08.969 --> 00:02:12.710 I've got a couple of questions that don't require 00:02:12.710 --> 00:02:16.409 a lot, but I would love to have you answer this 00:02:16.409 --> 00:02:21.080 to see. So that the listeners get a little bit 00:02:21.080 --> 00:02:25.219 more insight into who you are Tell me about what 00:02:25.219 --> 00:02:33.680 you consider your superpower My superpower It's 00:02:33.680 --> 00:02:40.479 a blessing and a curse and I Feel like I see 00:02:40.479 --> 00:02:44.039 things that other people don't see I ask questions 00:02:44.039 --> 00:02:49.639 that other people don't ask and I look for answers 00:02:49.639 --> 00:02:55.159 to questions that people haven't asked yet. And 00:02:55.159 --> 00:03:00.960 I I once commented to Rella Christensen that 00:03:00.960 --> 00:03:04.740 I felt like I was always felt like I've been 00:03:04.740 --> 00:03:08.020 like 20 years ahead of my time. Right. Like everything 00:03:08.020 --> 00:03:11.340 that I can kind of came up with in dentistry 00:03:11.340 --> 00:03:13.460 that I asked questions about or wanted to see 00:03:13.460 --> 00:03:17.930 a change in progress. It was like 20 years later 00:03:17.930 --> 00:03:20.530 people got it right and they didn't get it when 00:03:20.530 --> 00:03:22.789 I first you know talked about or introduced it 00:03:22.789 --> 00:03:28.110 and so And she said Rella said to me Kim you've 00:03:28.110 --> 00:03:32.169 always been 20 years ahead and That I think is 00:03:32.169 --> 00:03:35.569 my superpower and I would say Chris It's also 00:03:35.569 --> 00:03:38.270 a frustrating curse, right? Because I would see 00:03:38.270 --> 00:03:40.949 things and go why not? Why does anybody else 00:03:40.949 --> 00:03:45.379 get this right? It's so crystal clear to me And 00:03:45.379 --> 00:03:47.240 I mean, for example, when we started talking 00:03:47.240 --> 00:03:49.539 about the medical management of dental caries 00:03:49.539 --> 00:03:52.759 and looking at risk assessment based care and 00:03:52.759 --> 00:03:55.539 trying to look at the whole person and dental 00:03:55.539 --> 00:03:59.680 caries as a disease rather than a cavity. And 00:03:59.680 --> 00:04:02.960 it became so clear to me. And yet I talked to 00:04:02.960 --> 00:04:05.159 dentists and they looked like I was talking Greek. 00:04:05.319 --> 00:04:07.080 They just have this deer in the headlight looking 00:04:07.080 --> 00:04:08.659 and then they turn, shake their head and turn 00:04:08.659 --> 00:04:10.919 and walk away. And now, of course, it's, you 00:04:10.919 --> 00:04:14.599 know. It's mainstream topic, but you know actually 00:04:14.599 --> 00:04:17.600 25 years ago people thought I was nuts anyway, 00:04:17.600 --> 00:04:23.759 so that's my superpower That's awesome so let's 00:04:23.759 --> 00:04:27.639 talk a little bit about that about carries and 00:04:27.639 --> 00:04:34.339 Whether or not Other people have shifted from 00:04:34.339 --> 00:04:37.100 it just being thinking of it as a cavity caused 00:04:37.100 --> 00:04:42.550 by sugar or more about that it's a biofilm disease. 00:04:43.670 --> 00:04:47.050 Yeah, you know, Chris, that's that's a great 00:04:47.050 --> 00:04:49.230 topic for conversation. And, you know, like when 00:04:49.230 --> 00:04:51.490 I said, when I first started on this kind of 00:04:51.490 --> 00:04:54.629 personal journey, what really triggered it for 00:04:54.629 --> 00:04:58.350 me was I'd been in private practice in a small 00:04:58.350 --> 00:05:00.569 town, Albany, Oregon, where I grew up. My parents 00:05:00.569 --> 00:05:03.129 were farmers. You know, they knew everybody in 00:05:03.129 --> 00:05:06.209 the community. So most of my patients I had known 00:05:06.209 --> 00:05:09.449 my entire life. So these weren't just like Patients 00:05:09.449 --> 00:05:13.069 they were like friends and family, right? and 00:05:13.069 --> 00:05:15.889 they just kept getting cavities and I kept doing 00:05:15.889 --> 00:05:19.970 what I was taught to do and They were trying 00:05:19.970 --> 00:05:22.990 to do what I was helping instruct them to do 00:05:22.990 --> 00:05:26.009 and and yet in spite of all of it They it just 00:05:26.009 --> 00:05:28.470 they just kept getting cavities and I was frustrated 00:05:28.470 --> 00:05:30.470 and if you're in one place long enough you start 00:05:30.470 --> 00:05:35.310 to see your own work fail, right and I thought 00:05:35.550 --> 00:05:38.050 this one morning I woke up and I was like this 00:05:38.050 --> 00:05:41.509 doesn't work like if this worked they would stop 00:05:41.509 --> 00:05:44.430 getting cavities and we're missing something 00:05:44.430 --> 00:05:48.889 here and so I had sold one of my first companies 00:05:48.889 --> 00:05:51.470 that I built and I had taken a three -year sabbatical 00:05:51.470 --> 00:05:53.949 and gave me the opportunity to really reach out 00:05:53.949 --> 00:05:56.410 it was just the infancy of the internet gave 00:05:56.410 --> 00:05:58.610 me an opportunity to reach out to the world's 00:05:58.610 --> 00:06:01.779 leading minds and dental caries and bless them 00:06:01.779 --> 00:06:04.540 they all became anybody I asked became a mentor 00:06:04.540 --> 00:06:08.100 for me and Philip marsh's groundbreaking research 00:06:08.100 --> 00:06:11.740 on biofilm and you know ph in the mouth how that 00:06:11.740 --> 00:06:15.000 you know selected for the pathogens that you 00:06:15.000 --> 00:06:17.060 know caused dental caries and then we found out 00:06:17.060 --> 00:06:20.360 not only just them but also the their behavior 00:06:20.360 --> 00:06:24.540 of producing acid um opened a whole world to 00:06:24.540 --> 00:06:28.639 me right and So it was like I had the opportunity 00:06:28.639 --> 00:06:34.579 to study that and and John Featherstone, you 00:06:34.579 --> 00:06:37.439 know became a mentor to me and Doug Young and 00:06:37.439 --> 00:06:39.120 Doug and I spent a lot of time going through 00:06:39.120 --> 00:06:41.220 Philip Morris's research and then Doug spent 00:06:41.220 --> 00:06:44.379 a lot of time at idea, which is the Dental Educators 00:06:44.379 --> 00:06:50.610 Association and really helped create. carries 00:06:50.610 --> 00:06:54.370 risk assessment as a standard of practice in 00:06:54.370 --> 00:06:57.250 the dental schools and this has been you know, 00:06:57.290 --> 00:07:00.769 like almost 20 years ago, so it slowly penetrated 00:07:00.769 --> 00:07:05.110 the Mindset of our the young dentists that we're 00:07:05.110 --> 00:07:08.750 training now, right? And so it was kind of you 00:07:08.750 --> 00:07:11.269 know progressive and one of the challenges that 00:07:11.269 --> 00:07:14.910 I ran into was in speaking with Philip Marsh 00:07:14.910 --> 00:07:20.259 Was that I I proposed to him like I understood 00:07:20.259 --> 00:07:24.459 that having a lowered pH in the mouth helped 00:07:24.459 --> 00:07:27.360 contribute and kind of drive this disease, creating 00:07:27.360 --> 00:07:30.620 cavities. So I posed to him, well, what would 00:07:30.620 --> 00:07:33.259 happen if we raised the pH? If it's pH driven 00:07:33.259 --> 00:07:35.040 that direction, what if we tried to drive it 00:07:35.040 --> 00:07:36.720 back the other direction, back to health with 00:07:36.720 --> 00:07:39.180 pH? And he said, oh yeah, that'll work. He goes, 00:07:39.240 --> 00:07:41.639 I actually did that in my biofilm models. And 00:07:41.639 --> 00:07:45.990 I go. Why didn't you publish that, right? Because 00:07:45.990 --> 00:07:48.449 that was in the late 1980s. And he said, oh, 00:07:48.449 --> 00:07:50.449 I was just so excited about trying to figure 00:07:50.449 --> 00:07:54.910 out, sorting out what was driving it. And so 00:07:54.910 --> 00:07:57.470 Doug and I got together, and I was like, OK, 00:07:57.550 --> 00:08:00.029 so all we got to do is just go to Walmart, get 00:08:00.029 --> 00:08:03.810 a shopping cart. I still had a research laboratory. 00:08:06.550 --> 00:08:08.509 I thought, let's just go there, let's buy all 00:08:08.509 --> 00:08:10.529 the products and we'll pick the one that has 00:08:10.529 --> 00:08:12.509 the highest pH. I'll start treating my patients 00:08:12.509 --> 00:08:14.370 and my practices and we'll see what happens. 00:08:14.870 --> 00:08:18.529 And I had no clue, Chris, I had absolutely no 00:08:18.529 --> 00:08:21.350 clue. I couldn't find a product that had a pH 00:08:21.350 --> 00:08:24.730 above 5 .5. And a lot of them were from three 00:08:24.730 --> 00:08:30.189 to 4 .3. And I thought, oh my goodness, this 00:08:30.189 --> 00:08:33.429 is like part of the problem, right? I mean, we're 00:08:33.429 --> 00:08:36.980 trying to elevate the pH and reverse this. biofilm 00:08:36.980 --> 00:08:40.299 disorder dysfunction and we're doing it with 00:08:40.299 --> 00:08:45.759 acidic products and so There's a reason for that 00:08:45.759 --> 00:08:48.740 I learned it later. I mean, you know that that's 00:08:48.740 --> 00:08:51.879 one of those curses of the superpower He's asking 00:08:51.879 --> 00:08:56.279 like well, why aren't they alkaline? and It's 00:08:56.279 --> 00:08:59.799 about shelf life stability That's primarily it 00:08:59.799 --> 00:09:03.100 shelf life stability. So if it's acidic, nothing 00:09:03.100 --> 00:09:06.000 will grow in it. It'll be stable on the shelf 00:09:06.000 --> 00:09:09.639 for ages if it's a pH of eight, it's alkaline 00:09:09.639 --> 00:09:12.320 pH of eight or nine everything wants to grow 00:09:12.320 --> 00:09:15.039 in it and all of our preservatives that we have 00:09:15.039 --> 00:09:18.960 are Most active in an acidic environment and 00:09:18.960 --> 00:09:21.539 so they really lose their potency in an alkaline 00:09:21.539 --> 00:09:23.480 environment took us took a team of engineers 00:09:23.480 --> 00:09:26.259 and I four years to figure out how to Stabilize 00:09:26.259 --> 00:09:28.820 something at an elevated pH, you know for shelf 00:09:28.820 --> 00:09:32.179 life stability But so I looked at Doug and I 00:09:32.179 --> 00:09:35.149 go We have to do this ourselves. I like I didn't 00:09:35.149 --> 00:09:36.809 really want to start another company, but it's 00:09:36.809 --> 00:09:41.610 like Nobody's gonna do this. It's on us. So that's 00:09:41.610 --> 00:09:44.149 when we started carry -free I mean 25 years ago 00:09:44.149 --> 00:09:47.269 and started doing the research Anyway, so that's 00:09:47.269 --> 00:09:49.789 kind of a quick background of that whole story. 00:09:49.789 --> 00:09:54.970 But in the last 25 years we've seen continuous 00:09:54.970 --> 00:09:58.549 growth in the awareness and the changes in behaviors 00:09:58.549 --> 00:10:01.710 and dental practitioners the professionals, you 00:10:01.710 --> 00:10:06.659 know dentists, hygienists, and assistants, everybody 00:10:06.659 --> 00:10:10.340 kind of understanding that if you just keep drilling 00:10:10.340 --> 00:10:11.980 and filling the cavities, you're just going to 00:10:11.980 --> 00:10:14.340 keep doing that because it doesn't treat the 00:10:14.340 --> 00:10:16.779 cause of the disease. And I think we're at a 00:10:16.779 --> 00:10:19.940 point in our awareness and health care overall 00:10:19.940 --> 00:10:23.279 that we're starting to look at, let's back up 00:10:23.279 --> 00:10:27.000 a step and treat the cause of whatever the disease 00:10:27.000 --> 00:10:29.860 is. Let's go for the cause. And rather than just 00:10:29.860 --> 00:10:33.399 keep treating symptoms and having this disease 00:10:33.399 --> 00:10:36.320 become chronic and progressive. So anyway, I 00:10:36.320 --> 00:10:38.600 think it's changed a lot. There's still a lot 00:10:38.600 --> 00:10:41.759 of work to do, but I'm pretty happy with how 00:10:41.759 --> 00:10:48.259 far we've come. Oh, you've come so far. I know 00:10:48.259 --> 00:10:53.100 that for me, when I started work with Dr. McKay, 00:10:54.320 --> 00:10:57.120 He had, it's not what he said, but what I heard, 00:10:57.240 --> 00:11:01.399 you know the difference. Yeah, yeah. And I heard 00:11:01.399 --> 00:11:05.259 him say, I want you to start painting a much 00:11:05.259 --> 00:11:08.039 larger canvas of who you can be for our patients. 00:11:08.980 --> 00:11:11.500 And he said, I'll give you continuing education, 00:11:12.639 --> 00:11:15.620 the technology that you need in a personal coach. 00:11:16.580 --> 00:11:23.690 And that set me off on to figuring out how to 00:11:23.690 --> 00:11:28.110 help patients create biofilm health. And that's 00:11:28.110 --> 00:11:32.610 when I found out about Carry Free because my 00:11:32.610 --> 00:11:36.870 niece was working for you. Oh, that's right. 00:11:37.009 --> 00:11:40.350 Yes, she was. Yeah. And so she came into the 00:11:40.350 --> 00:11:42.570 office one day and wanted to talk to Brian and 00:11:42.570 --> 00:11:48.710 he wasn't there. So I talked to her and your 00:11:49.929 --> 00:11:53.929 philosophy of care and what you were doing really 00:11:53.929 --> 00:11:59.090 spurred me on to put that as my number one priority 00:11:59.090 --> 00:12:02.970 in trying to create health for patients was to 00:12:02.970 --> 00:12:09.730 help them create biofilm health. And so I used 00:12:09.730 --> 00:12:13.269 your products. It's more a system to me than 00:12:13.269 --> 00:12:19.320 a product. That became the mainstay and it was 00:12:19.320 --> 00:12:24.220 so easy because we just incorporated it into, 00:12:25.100 --> 00:12:27.559 this is how we take care of you here. It wasn't 00:12:27.559 --> 00:12:30.039 a, well, if you want me to do something that's 00:12:30.039 --> 00:12:33.039 new and innovative that can really help you, 00:12:33.240 --> 00:12:37.419 but here's the cost of it, chair side. Nah, that 00:12:37.419 --> 00:12:42.460 didn't work for me because it became right then 00:12:42.460 --> 00:12:46.250 as a conversation about cost rather than a conversation 00:12:46.250 --> 00:12:52.169 about outcome. And so we just made it part of 00:12:52.169 --> 00:12:55.309 our routine. This is how we take care of you 00:12:55.309 --> 00:13:00.029 here. And I did a carry free swab on every single 00:13:00.029 --> 00:13:03.830 patient at every visit. And that was important 00:13:03.830 --> 00:13:07.850 because that was gave me a glimpse very quick. 00:13:09.179 --> 00:13:12.059 wonderful glimpse of the health of the biofilm 00:13:12.059 --> 00:13:17.299 and what needed to shift in the patient so that 00:13:17.299 --> 00:13:21.559 they can create their own health. Yeah, you know, 00:13:21.580 --> 00:13:23.539 and I think that Chris blessed you for that. 00:13:23.759 --> 00:13:27.539 I mean, you know, the patients that I mean, it's 00:13:27.539 --> 00:13:29.399 as simple as this. If you have a healthy biofilm 00:13:29.399 --> 00:13:33.620 in your mouth, you won't get cavities. I mean, 00:13:33.620 --> 00:13:37.210 it's just as simple as that. And if you can maintain 00:13:37.210 --> 00:13:39.769 that healthy biofilm and you know, we know what 00:13:39.769 --> 00:13:41.929 the risk factors are that you know contribute 00:13:41.929 --> 00:13:48.669 to those issues of you know, this health If you 00:13:48.669 --> 00:13:50.730 can maintain that healthy biofilm like you're 00:13:50.730 --> 00:13:53.330 gonna stay healthy and now we know Chris I mean 00:13:53.330 --> 00:13:59.509 following this up now we know how Big of an impact 00:13:59.509 --> 00:14:03.029 if you have an unhealthy biofilm in the mouth 00:14:03.470 --> 00:14:05.850 how big an impact that has on the rest of the 00:14:05.850 --> 00:14:10.389 body like in terms of arterial disease inflammation 00:14:10.389 --> 00:14:15.690 and I just you know strokes you know heart attacks 00:14:15.690 --> 00:14:18.470 and strokes I mean I start looking at that and 00:14:18.470 --> 00:14:22.049 it's you know I've always had that sense that 00:14:22.049 --> 00:14:24.330 you can't have a healthy body if you don't have 00:14:24.330 --> 00:14:26.490 a healthy mouth I mean it's the gateway to the 00:14:26.490 --> 00:14:30.429 body and I think for a lot of years. Unfortunately, 00:14:30.470 --> 00:14:33.230 in the United States, you know, dentistry got 00:14:33.230 --> 00:14:35.889 disconnected from medicine in the medical schools. 00:14:36.370 --> 00:14:40.210 Oh, you know, early on in the 1800s. And, you 00:14:40.210 --> 00:14:43.110 know, we saw dentistry saw itself as like, we 00:14:43.110 --> 00:14:45.350 just take care of this. Right. And this is not 00:14:45.350 --> 00:14:48.429 connected to the rest of the body. And medicine 00:14:48.429 --> 00:14:51.230 has that same attitude. Right. I mean, early 00:14:51.230 --> 00:14:54.070 on, when we first started understanding that 00:14:54.070 --> 00:14:56.690 periodontal pathogens were playing a role in 00:14:56.730 --> 00:14:59.610 Peripheral inflammatory disease and heart attacks 00:14:59.610 --> 00:15:02.649 and strokes I was looking at some of the early 00:15:02.649 --> 00:15:05.730 research again. That was like 25 years ago and 00:15:05.730 --> 00:15:08.230 I'm looking at going like This should be setting 00:15:08.230 --> 00:15:11.909 off alarms like it wasn't one study. It was like 00:15:11.909 --> 00:15:14.309 within three or four years there was multiple 00:15:14.309 --> 00:15:17.750 studies that all indicated the same thing and 00:15:17.750 --> 00:15:21.990 I went to my local hospital And you know, they 00:15:21.990 --> 00:15:24.570 have a once a month lunch and learn for the physicians 00:15:24.570 --> 00:15:27.190 and I said I'd like to I'd like to get on your 00:15:27.190 --> 00:15:29.129 lunch and learn I'd like to do a presentation 00:15:29.129 --> 00:15:32.149 for an hour on You know the patients are treating 00:15:32.149 --> 00:15:34.029 and gum disease and how it's impacting their 00:15:34.029 --> 00:15:35.870 patients, you know in terms of their overall 00:15:35.870 --> 00:15:40.429 health And I never got on and they looked at 00:15:40.429 --> 00:15:43.429 me and said you're a dent you're a dentist What 00:15:43.429 --> 00:15:46.309 could you possibly teach us about anything? I 00:15:46.309 --> 00:15:49.169 mean they had that attitude and I was just like 00:15:49.169 --> 00:15:52.279 really That's your attitude because i'm we're 00:15:52.279 --> 00:15:55.639 treating the same patients here And i'm seeing 00:15:55.639 --> 00:15:59.620 you I could help you, you know improve their 00:15:59.620 --> 00:16:02.679 health if if you just understood what it is that 00:16:02.679 --> 00:16:06.539 i'm trying to do and um, you know, so that's 00:16:06.539 --> 00:16:10.100 changed over time, I think in the last 25 years, 00:16:10.100 --> 00:16:13.909 I think that Um certainly with people at the 00:16:13.909 --> 00:16:15.950 you know, american academy of oral systemic health, 00:16:15.950 --> 00:16:19.590 uh, you know doug thompson, um, susan maples 00:16:19.590 --> 00:16:22.769 michelle hudson They've all helped drive that 00:16:22.769 --> 00:16:25.590 awareness and start to make connections with 00:16:25.590 --> 00:16:29.350 the medical profession so that they see us as 00:16:29.350 --> 00:16:33.370 um partners in taking care of the same people 00:16:33.370 --> 00:16:35.289 the patients like well, how does that impact 00:16:35.289 --> 00:16:38.549 them and so um Yeah, we're seeing great. I mean 00:16:38.549 --> 00:16:40.669 we're seeing great change in our lifetime chris 00:16:40.669 --> 00:16:44.600 that 25 years ago, I anticipated it to happen 00:16:44.600 --> 00:16:47.659 a lot faster. And then I got to a point never 00:16:47.659 --> 00:16:50.340 going to see this in my lifetime. And now it's 00:16:50.340 --> 00:16:53.840 kind of happening. So so that makes me feel really 00:16:53.840 --> 00:17:00.299 happy. That is awesome. I know it's such great 00:17:00.299 --> 00:17:08.859 work you've been doing. Can you tell me why aren't 00:17:08.920 --> 00:17:11.380 all dental professionals paying attention to 00:17:11.380 --> 00:17:15.440 all this, especially now what we know about systemic 00:17:15.440 --> 00:17:18.599 health. I think you're a lot like me in that 00:17:18.599 --> 00:17:25.259 I gave up on traditional hygiene because the 00:17:25.259 --> 00:17:29.859 questions that I was asking, traditional hygiene 00:17:29.859 --> 00:17:34.599 didn't even measure up. You couldn't use tradition 00:17:34.599 --> 00:17:38.250 to answer those questions. And I had lost my 00:17:38.250 --> 00:17:41.630 impact and influence with patients, because what 00:17:41.630 --> 00:17:45.910 I was asking them to do and telling them to do 00:17:45.910 --> 00:17:49.589 wasn't working. So they were still coming back 00:17:49.589 --> 00:17:55.009 with infection in their gums and bleeding and 00:17:55.009 --> 00:18:01.269 developing cavities. So what has to happen, do 00:18:01.269 --> 00:18:06.509 you think, for that? I tell you Chris as I think 00:18:06.509 --> 00:18:09.369 about that because that's really a great question 00:18:09.369 --> 00:18:13.109 right and I said here when you first start talking 00:18:13.109 --> 00:18:16.250 about you know, if only I knew the answer to 00:18:16.250 --> 00:18:21.109 that question, right like what's What's the roadblock 00:18:21.109 --> 00:18:26.650 here? and I think The main issue is that in health 00:18:26.650 --> 00:18:29.190 care in the United States. We're still disease 00:18:29.190 --> 00:18:33.940 driven And we need to become health driven And 00:18:33.940 --> 00:18:38.019 Bob Barclay pointed this out in the early 1970s 00:18:38.019 --> 00:18:42.420 and For your audience who doesn't know he was 00:18:42.420 --> 00:18:45.619 a very innovative pioneering dentist who died 00:18:45.619 --> 00:18:49.440 early But he he really had a whole health kind 00:18:49.440 --> 00:18:53.619 of approach in the 19 early 1970s That was they 00:18:53.619 --> 00:18:55.779 thought either loved him or you thought he was 00:18:55.779 --> 00:18:59.559 a quack, right? but one of the things that Bob 00:18:59.559 --> 00:19:03.119 Barclay's was concerned about was that With the 00:19:03.119 --> 00:19:06.619 advent of dental insurance and it's not really 00:19:06.619 --> 00:19:09.559 insurance But with the advent of dental insurance, 00:19:09.799 --> 00:19:13.319 he felt we would become more and more treatment 00:19:13.319 --> 00:19:17.160 oriented to like the surgical approach drill 00:19:17.160 --> 00:19:20.180 and fill scraping teeth because we could prove 00:19:20.180 --> 00:19:23.279 that we did that and we would instead of teaching 00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:25.599 patients prevention and cut which we wouldn't 00:19:25.599 --> 00:19:28.460 get paid for teaching them nutrition teaching 00:19:28.460 --> 00:19:32.539 them how to and at this point how to Create and 00:19:32.539 --> 00:19:36.819 maintain a healthy biofilm using our Care skill 00:19:36.819 --> 00:19:39.900 and knowledge to help the patient create health 00:19:39.900 --> 00:19:43.099 He was concerned that it would just continue 00:19:43.099 --> 00:19:46.480 to drive it to just treating symptoms of disease 00:19:46.480 --> 00:19:49.559 And I have to tell you I mean that what is that 00:19:49.559 --> 00:19:55.450 like 55 years ago? He hit the nail on the head. 00:19:55.609 --> 00:19:58.109 I mean he was a visionary and he saw this happening 00:19:58.109 --> 00:20:00.529 And this is exactly where I think we still are 00:20:00.529 --> 00:20:04.529 today We're still like focused on a patient comes 00:20:04.529 --> 00:20:07.210 in and we're focused on how many cavities you 00:20:07.210 --> 00:20:10.190 have How am I going to fix that rather than the 00:20:10.190 --> 00:20:13.569 most important question is we just step back 00:20:13.569 --> 00:20:17.869 and go Why do you have cavities? Because if I 00:20:17.869 --> 00:20:20.970 can find the answer to that question correctly 00:20:21.470 --> 00:20:25.009 Can help you stop getting cavities, right? And 00:20:25.009 --> 00:20:27.130 so we need to step back and take the approach 00:20:27.130 --> 00:20:29.970 to look at that But I entire health care system 00:20:29.970 --> 00:20:36.769 is disease driven The pharmaceutical industry, 00:20:37.470 --> 00:20:41.410 you know 70 % of all Americans across all age 00:20:41.410 --> 00:20:44.369 demographics from six months on 70 % take at 00:20:44.369 --> 00:20:49.589 least one prescription medication per day You 00:20:49.589 --> 00:20:52.809 know 50 % take two or more and twenty percent 00:20:52.809 --> 00:20:55.630 take five or more. I mean, you know that you 00:20:55.630 --> 00:20:59.549 saw that in your patients. Right. And so we're 00:20:59.549 --> 00:21:04.269 we're very symptom disease based and looking 00:21:04.269 --> 00:21:07.089 at things like treating them and they become 00:21:07.089 --> 00:21:09.750 chronic diseases like take type two diabetes. 00:21:09.990 --> 00:21:12.349 Right. Health and exercise would go a long way 00:21:12.349 --> 00:21:16.509 to help. And diet would go a long way to helping 00:21:16.509 --> 00:21:19.410 people. Get healthy and not have to take any 00:21:19.410 --> 00:21:21.369 medications, but we don't approach it that way 00:21:21.369 --> 00:21:23.750 It's like we've got a new wonder drug here take 00:21:23.750 --> 00:21:26.809 this and it's going to lower your a1c I mean, 00:21:26.809 --> 00:21:29.069 you see we're the only country in the world where 00:21:29.069 --> 00:21:31.789 pharmaceutical companies can advertise on television 00:21:31.789 --> 00:21:36.630 right and and so it's like We think what pill 00:21:36.630 --> 00:21:39.250 can I take rather than how should I modify my 00:21:39.250 --> 00:21:42.670 diet and maybe exercise? Uh, you know, how can 00:21:42.670 --> 00:21:46.230 I do? Treat the cause of this in my personal 00:21:46.230 --> 00:21:50.150 life and for it and an individualized care How 00:21:50.150 --> 00:21:53.349 can I how can I do that and create that instead? 00:21:53.369 --> 00:21:55.430 It's like, you know, which new which medication 00:21:55.430 --> 00:21:58.130 should I be giving this patient? And the lower 00:21:58.130 --> 00:22:00.690 day one see and we just leave the cause in place. 00:22:00.690 --> 00:22:04.059 And so then there you know, we become You know 00:22:04.059 --> 00:22:07.160 they become statistics of the you know, the pharmaceutical 00:22:07.160 --> 00:22:10.319 industry and I think one thing That I'm hopeful 00:22:10.319 --> 00:22:13.180 about is actually we have somebody watching it 00:22:13.180 --> 00:22:17.039 to see finally saying wait a minute Let's get 00:22:17.039 --> 00:22:20.980 healthy, right? Let's stop and let's back up 00:22:20.980 --> 00:22:25.539 and you know love him or hate him whoever it's 00:22:25.539 --> 00:22:28.539 like I The fact that we're starting to ask those 00:22:28.539 --> 00:22:31.619 questions I think is really positive and for 00:22:31.619 --> 00:22:35.299 me it's it creates hope that we're going to see 00:22:35.299 --> 00:22:39.599 change in my lifetime to rather than Just continuing 00:22:39.599 --> 00:22:44.019 to treat chronic disease Step back and and look 00:22:44.019 --> 00:22:46.400 at okay. What's causing that and see if we can 00:22:46.400 --> 00:22:49.839 fix that instead So, you know, I mean chris when 00:22:49.839 --> 00:22:54.920 you and I were in school Type two diabetes was 00:22:54.960 --> 00:22:58.940 Called adult onset right and the average age 00:22:58.940 --> 00:23:03.700 of the person diagnosed with adult onset diabetes 00:23:03.700 --> 00:23:06.500 within their late 20s You know the average age 00:23:06.500 --> 00:23:09.819 of adult onset diabetes today in the United States 00:23:09.819 --> 00:23:12.980 is 10 They're 10 years old. We have kids that 00:23:12.980 --> 00:23:16.619 have So now we call it type 2 diabetes. I mean, 00:23:16.619 --> 00:23:20.160 it's it's adolescent onset diabetes, right? And 00:23:20.160 --> 00:23:23.140 and that's that should be alarming to us. Like 00:23:23.140 --> 00:23:26.799 I don't know but anyway, so i'm hopeful i'm i'm 00:23:26.799 --> 00:23:29.420 hopeful that we're going to see some Changes 00:23:29.420 --> 00:23:31.640 and it's going to have to be patient driven too. 00:23:31.640 --> 00:23:36.220 I think because the system is designed to benefit 00:23:36.460 --> 00:23:42.259 You know pharmaceutical companies and etc I I 00:23:42.259 --> 00:23:44.359 think it needs to be patient driven to patients 00:23:44.359 --> 00:23:46.700 need to come in and go become their own advocate 00:23:46.700 --> 00:23:51.200 and go no No, I don't want to do that. I want 00:23:51.200 --> 00:23:53.599 to get off this medication I want to know what 00:23:53.599 --> 00:23:56.019 it would take for me to get healthy so I don't 00:23:56.019 --> 00:24:00.150 need this and you know I think it has to come 00:24:00.150 --> 00:24:02.170 from both sides, but and I and I think there's 00:24:02.170 --> 00:24:04.990 a growing an awareness Podcasts like this I think 00:24:04.990 --> 00:24:07.309 make a huge difference in terms of getting information 00:24:07.309 --> 00:24:12.470 out to the public and to the profession And I 00:24:12.470 --> 00:24:15.769 think there's just a kind of an increasing awareness 00:24:15.769 --> 00:24:19.730 and I think covid played a role in that too, 00:24:20.130 --> 00:24:23.750 right? The whole us being forced to take the 00:24:23.750 --> 00:24:28.359 covid vaccine that whole pandemic I think people 00:24:28.359 --> 00:24:30.700 started to ask questions that we hadn't been 00:24:30.700 --> 00:24:34.319 asking before. And I think that's playing a role 00:24:34.319 --> 00:24:37.700 just on the general health knowledge. I think 00:24:37.700 --> 00:24:41.180 the health IQ of your average person in the U 00:24:41.180 --> 00:24:44.599 .S. I think are more inclined now to say, time 00:24:44.599 --> 00:24:47.440 out, wait a minute. I want to know more about 00:24:47.440 --> 00:24:51.779 that and start asking the important questions. 00:24:52.180 --> 00:24:57.940 So anyway, that's where we're at. Thanks to Dr. 00:24:58.119 --> 00:25:03.220 McKay, I developed a new set of questions that 00:25:03.220 --> 00:25:05.779 I started asking people when I started learning 00:25:05.779 --> 00:25:11.400 this science. And by the way, I love Brian always, 00:25:11.539 --> 00:25:13.619 always been one of my heroes. I've always looked 00:25:13.619 --> 00:25:16.940 up to him. So yeah, that's really cool. You know, 00:25:16.940 --> 00:25:18.839 I haven't worked for him for a while, but we 00:25:18.839 --> 00:25:22.579 still stay in touch and I consider him one of 00:25:22.579 --> 00:25:27.349 my best friends. I don't doubt it. My definition 00:25:27.349 --> 00:25:31.769 of a friend is someone that will tell you the 00:25:31.769 --> 00:25:34.950 truth as far as they know it, not what they think 00:25:34.950 --> 00:25:38.990 you want to hear. Yep. And that's what I've appreciated. 00:25:39.230 --> 00:25:42.990 It was hard at times because I wasn't used to 00:25:42.990 --> 00:25:48.210 that. But, you know, when he hired me and by 00:25:48.210 --> 00:25:51.430 the way, I positioned myself with him. He didn't 00:25:51.430 --> 00:25:57.740 have a choice. I was. And when he hired me, he 00:25:57.740 --> 00:26:01.440 said, I only have one expectation of you, and 00:26:01.440 --> 00:26:06.519 that's for you to grow. And I've had the most 00:26:06.519 --> 00:26:10.240 growth in the last 25 years than I could even 00:26:10.240 --> 00:26:14.759 begin to imagine happening hadn't I been in environment 00:26:14.759 --> 00:26:19.660 on a daily basis where he was, because he taught 00:26:19.660 --> 00:26:22.099 me so much. And one of the most important things 00:26:22.099 --> 00:26:26.029 that he taught me was that we do wants dentistry 00:26:26.029 --> 00:26:30.369 in his practice. And so I started shifting my 00:26:30.369 --> 00:26:34.349 questions and I needed to know the answer to 00:26:34.349 --> 00:26:37.670 this question because I refused to make an assumption 00:26:37.670 --> 00:26:42.730 about it, the answer. And you might as well take 00:26:42.730 --> 00:26:45.130 a three inch piece of duct tape and put it across 00:26:45.130 --> 00:26:48.250 my mouth if I don't know the answer. And the 00:26:48.250 --> 00:26:51.150 question is, tell me about what you want for 00:26:51.150 --> 00:26:56.069 yourself. Because we now know that patients want 00:26:56.069 --> 00:26:58.529 one or two things. They either want to move towards 00:26:58.529 --> 00:27:01.650 the benefit of health or away from the consequences 00:27:01.650 --> 00:27:05.529 of disease. And how you treat them clinically 00:27:05.529 --> 00:27:09.650 is exactly the same, but your messaging and communication 00:27:09.650 --> 00:27:12.430 with them is totally different, isn't it? Oh, 00:27:12.490 --> 00:27:14.849 yeah, absolutely. It's an entirely different 00:27:14.849 --> 00:27:20.230 conversation. Yes. And, you know, the first time 00:27:20.400 --> 00:27:23.319 I just you know reflect back like 25 years and 00:27:23.319 --> 00:27:26.059 I um started talking to patients differently 00:27:26.059 --> 00:27:28.420 like they came in and i'm i'm You know, suddenly 00:27:28.420 --> 00:27:30.819 i'm having them fill out a risk assessment form 00:27:30.819 --> 00:27:32.519 and i'm trying to figure out why they're getting 00:27:32.519 --> 00:27:36.700 cavities and um I'll never forget. I have patients 00:27:36.700 --> 00:27:40.700 ask You know doc if this works and I stopped 00:27:40.700 --> 00:27:42.259 getting cavities. Aren't you kind of putting 00:27:42.259 --> 00:27:45.980 yourself out of business? And I said Yep, that's 00:27:45.980 --> 00:27:48.079 and that's my goal and that's my plan at some 00:27:48.079 --> 00:27:50.039 point time I want to be able to retire and go 00:27:50.039 --> 00:27:53.119 fishing and You know, I want you all taken care 00:27:53.119 --> 00:27:55.279 of so I can leave, you know the clear conscience, 00:27:55.279 --> 00:27:59.440 but it was having an entirely different conversation 00:27:59.440 --> 00:28:03.299 With patients about their about health we started 00:28:03.299 --> 00:28:06.180 talking about that instead of like oh You have 00:28:06.180 --> 00:28:09.619 two cavities and you need to have this done instead. 00:28:09.619 --> 00:28:12.900 It was like well, what would you like? right 00:28:12.900 --> 00:28:17.180 here's some options um for care and you know 00:28:17.180 --> 00:28:19.579 here's you know here are some of your options 00:28:19.579 --> 00:28:21.720 if you want to be healthy and stop having cavities 00:28:21.720 --> 00:28:24.740 or you know here's some options if you want to 00:28:24.740 --> 00:28:27.819 you know get your gums healthy and at the time 00:28:27.819 --> 00:28:30.380 we didn't really appreciate what that meant for 00:28:30.380 --> 00:28:34.000 the rest of the body right like we right like 00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:38.880 we now know um there are numerous studies indicating 00:28:38.880 --> 00:28:41.500 that that some of the bacteria that cause cavities 00:28:41.630 --> 00:28:44.910 Play a major role in strokes, you know micro 00:28:44.910 --> 00:28:48.109 bleeds in the brain They are the causative agent 00:28:48.109 --> 00:28:50.769 for endocarp bacterial endocarditis. I've got 00:28:50.769 --> 00:28:55.829 a friend who just in the hospital right now with 00:28:55.829 --> 00:28:59.890 bacterial endocarditis and You know, it's real 00:28:59.890 --> 00:29:03.650 and having you know Having a healthy mouth having 00:29:03.650 --> 00:29:08.059 a healthy biofilm helps, right? So we started 00:29:08.059 --> 00:29:10.319 having those kind of conversations and at first 00:29:10.319 --> 00:29:13.339 they started looking at me kind of like, huh? 00:29:14.220 --> 00:29:17.240 And then over a period of time, they all got 00:29:17.240 --> 00:29:19.299 it and my hygiene team at first looked at me 00:29:19.299 --> 00:29:23.009 like, what are you talking about? And over a 00:29:23.009 --> 00:29:25.250 period of time, it was like they were leading, 00:29:25.329 --> 00:29:27.710 you know, my my hygiene team was leading the 00:29:27.710 --> 00:29:30.309 conversation like they were, you know, they were 00:29:30.309 --> 00:29:32.750 educating the patient, having that. What do you 00:29:32.750 --> 00:29:35.730 want for yourself? Here's your options. What 00:29:35.730 --> 00:29:38.210 what would what do you want? Right. What's your 00:29:38.210 --> 00:29:40.829 what's your goal here? And how can we help you 00:29:40.829 --> 00:29:43.829 accomplish that? Which is a whole different approach 00:29:43.829 --> 00:29:47.589 to health care. And unfortunately, we don't see 00:29:47.589 --> 00:29:51.869 a whole lot of that in medicine just yet. You 00:29:51.869 --> 00:29:54.589 know, so anyway, but it's changing like I say 00:29:54.589 --> 00:29:57.829 and I think dentistry is playing a role in driving 00:29:57.829 --> 00:30:02.289 that change right for those of us who are Taking 00:30:02.289 --> 00:30:05.869 that approach to care. I think patients are becoming, 00:30:05.869 --> 00:30:08.170 you know better educated and better informed 00:30:08.170 --> 00:30:11.470 and starting to look at well I kind of want to 00:30:11.470 --> 00:30:13.890 have that kind of care from my physician and 00:30:13.890 --> 00:30:16.190 start asking those kind of questions and so I 00:30:16.190 --> 00:30:18.910 think you know, I think you're just gonna see 00:30:18.910 --> 00:30:22.250 continued growth and change all around but But 00:30:22.250 --> 00:30:26.029 it's gonna be a generational change. Like I first 00:30:26.029 --> 00:30:28.450 thought this would happen in like 10, oh, I told 00:30:28.450 --> 00:30:31.109 John Featherstone, 10 years, everybody will be 00:30:31.109 --> 00:30:33.890 doing this. And that was like in 2000, right? 00:30:34.930 --> 00:30:40.109 That was 15 years ago, we passed that mile post 00:30:40.109 --> 00:30:45.170 and we're not anywhere near there. And John actually, 00:30:45.269 --> 00:30:48.319 when he retired, He and I had breakfast and he 00:30:48.319 --> 00:30:51.420 said to me Kim that wasn't our job. Our job was 00:30:51.420 --> 00:30:55.420 to advance the ball and we advanced the ball 00:30:55.420 --> 00:30:58.839 and so I You know, and so I started looking at 00:30:58.839 --> 00:31:01.400 it. Like yeah, we did we we moved it down the 00:31:01.400 --> 00:31:05.759 field a long way and So maybe we don't carry 00:31:05.759 --> 00:31:08.059 it across the goal line But but we've got the 00:31:08.059 --> 00:31:10.720 ball going the right direction and so which was 00:31:10.720 --> 00:31:13.680 our role here So, you know, we'll be we'll be 00:31:13.680 --> 00:31:16.860 the catalyst, you know the catalyst gets drives 00:31:16.860 --> 00:31:20.539 the chemical reaction and it's and it's disappeared 00:31:20.539 --> 00:31:22.980 and done. Everybody forgets about it at the end. 00:31:23.359 --> 00:31:29.019 But we're the catalyst in the meantime. Yes, 00:31:29.259 --> 00:31:32.579 absolutely. You are. You know, it's about that. 00:31:35.420 --> 00:31:38.759 There was a drawing I saw of somebody trying 00:31:38.759 --> 00:31:42.759 to push a rock up the hill and they said, well, 00:31:42.990 --> 00:31:46.470 It wasn't necessarily that we expected you to 00:31:46.470 --> 00:31:48.970 move it uphill. We just wanted you to push it 00:31:48.970 --> 00:31:56.609 and see what you could accomplish. But I think 00:31:56.609 --> 00:32:03.230 what you've been doing is so important and had 00:32:03.230 --> 00:32:08.730 a huge impact on my life and my patients and 00:32:08.730 --> 00:32:11.630 helping them become advocates for their own care. 00:32:12.200 --> 00:32:19.160 What do you think is necessary for people or 00:32:19.160 --> 00:32:22.900 how would they go about it that want to make 00:32:22.900 --> 00:32:25.400 this kind of change and how they take care of 00:32:25.400 --> 00:32:28.359 their patients, but they don't know how to do 00:32:28.359 --> 00:32:30.759 it. They don't know how to make that change. 00:32:32.259 --> 00:32:37.000 You know, and that's a challenge, right? And 00:32:37.000 --> 00:32:39.400 it's a challenge within. You got to have everybody 00:32:39.400 --> 00:32:41.920 in the practice on the same page. Like you can't 00:32:41.920 --> 00:32:45.099 have one person that has this belief and approach 00:32:45.099 --> 00:32:50.099 on a team of eight or 10 or 14 people. Right. 00:32:50.240 --> 00:32:52.940 It's like everybody has to understand it and 00:32:52.940 --> 00:32:56.519 embrace it. And so, I mean, I think I made all 00:32:56.519 --> 00:32:58.619 the mistakes one could possibly make on trying 00:32:58.619 --> 00:33:03.700 to incorporate this into my practice. But I actually. 00:33:04.079 --> 00:33:07.019 Read a book. It was titled tribal leadership 00:33:07.019 --> 00:33:12.380 and it was a the concept was about as humans 00:33:12.380 --> 00:33:15.680 We are most effective in groups of three and 00:33:15.680 --> 00:33:17.880 if you want to make change in an organization 00:33:17.880 --> 00:33:21.599 Find the two movers and shakers with you And 00:33:21.599 --> 00:33:23.700 if you can get them to understand what you're 00:33:23.700 --> 00:33:26.579 trying to accomplish and get them on your team 00:33:26.579 --> 00:33:29.799 They'll change the organization the three of 00:33:29.799 --> 00:33:32.000 you have the power to change the organization 00:33:32.000 --> 00:33:37.519 and And so I took my two key hygienists out to 00:33:37.519 --> 00:33:39.640 lunch and I said, listen, this is what I'm trying 00:33:39.640 --> 00:33:43.539 to do. This is why I'm trying to do it. And they 00:33:43.539 --> 00:33:46.559 got it. And within my practice, it finally, but 00:33:46.559 --> 00:33:49.279 it took me three or four years of beating my 00:33:49.279 --> 00:33:50.819 head against the wall trying to make that happen. 00:33:50.880 --> 00:33:53.279 I think at this point in time for a practitioner, 00:33:53.960 --> 00:33:56.480 a dental professional that wants to kind of pursue 00:33:56.480 --> 00:34:00.079 this level of care. I tell you what, at Carry 00:34:00.079 --> 00:34:05.349 Free, my customer representatives have trained 00:34:05.349 --> 00:34:08.170 probably 10 ,000 demo practices at this point 00:34:08.170 --> 00:34:10.429 in time. They know more about this than anybody 00:34:10.429 --> 00:34:13.130 on the planet when it comes to training. And 00:34:13.130 --> 00:34:15.929 those things are free. Like we do that for free 00:34:15.929 --> 00:34:18.909 to help practices understand. We give them the 00:34:18.909 --> 00:34:21.010 tools, the risk assessment forums, et cetera, 00:34:21.250 --> 00:34:25.139 to help them put those wheels in motion. I think 00:34:25.139 --> 00:34:28.159 organizations like AOSH, the American Academy 00:34:28.159 --> 00:34:30.619 of Oral Systemic Health, is a great place to 00:34:30.619 --> 00:34:35.599 go and learn more about this. For dentists and 00:34:35.599 --> 00:34:37.519 hygienists, I was going to say for dentists and 00:34:37.519 --> 00:34:42.239 hygienists, Doug Thompson certainly is an advocate 00:34:42.239 --> 00:34:45.920 for how he approaches peri -donal disease from 00:34:45.920 --> 00:34:49.280 a medical management standpoint. And he teaches 00:34:49.280 --> 00:34:53.969 at the Koi Center. you know, if either a dentist 00:34:53.969 --> 00:34:56.869 or a hygienist, you know, if you wanted to go 00:34:56.869 --> 00:35:00.670 learn more about just risk assessment based care 00:35:00.670 --> 00:35:04.510 and taking that approach with patients, go enroll 00:35:04.510 --> 00:35:10.269 in the Kois Center. I mean, John Kois is a visionary 00:35:10.269 --> 00:35:14.130 in our time. And so I'd say I would make those 00:35:14.130 --> 00:35:37.460 kind of recommendations. You're listening to 00:35:37.460 --> 00:35:40.059 Health Lifelines, a podcast brought to you by 00:35:40.059 --> 00:35:43.400 The Lifeguard Approach, your trusted source for 00:35:43.400 --> 00:35:47.219 insights, solutions, and training that empower 00:35:47.219 --> 00:35:49.500 you to become a lifeguard for your patients' 00:35:50.000 --> 00:35:53.880 health and wellbeing. This episode is just a 00:35:53.880 --> 00:35:56.420 taste of the strategies and stories we will share 00:35:56.420 --> 00:35:59.519 to help you and your patients live longer, healthier 00:35:59.519 --> 00:36:03.219 lives. If you're enjoying the content, make sure 00:36:03.219 --> 00:36:06.800 to hit subscribe so you never miss an episode. 00:36:08.159 --> 00:36:11.599 As a reminder, this podcast and the opinions 00:36:11.599 --> 00:36:16.659 expressed here are not a medical diagnosis. And 00:36:16.659 --> 00:36:19.320 don't forget to explore our additional resources, 00:36:19.699 --> 00:36:23.960 tools, exclusive content. courses and coaching 00:36:23.960 --> 00:36:26.820 solutions from the Lifeguard Approach by visiting 00:36:26.820 --> 00:36:31.179 our website at thelifeguardapproach .com. And 00:36:31.179 --> 00:37:00.920 now let's jump back into today's episode. And 00:37:00.920 --> 00:37:03.000 the information is out there I mean, you know 00:37:03.000 --> 00:37:05.280 you can take you can catch up with a lot of these 00:37:05.280 --> 00:37:08.260 people who are teaching this at meetings You 00:37:08.260 --> 00:37:11.079 know, I teach you know at some of the major meetings 00:37:11.079 --> 00:37:14.000 I teach local study clubs and I know a lot of 00:37:14.000 --> 00:37:17.219 people do so And maybe you know, that's what 00:37:17.219 --> 00:37:20.480 I always tell young people and and this was something 00:37:20.480 --> 00:37:23.000 that and I know you can relate to this Chris 00:37:23.000 --> 00:37:27.420 But find a mentor Right. I have a very good friend. 00:37:27.420 --> 00:37:31.440 He's an unbelievable artist And he has a saying, 00:37:31.920 --> 00:37:36.599 success leaves clues. And I love that statement. 00:37:36.659 --> 00:37:40.500 That concept is like, go find somebody that's 00:37:40.500 --> 00:37:43.860 doing it and study them, right? Figure out, because 00:37:43.860 --> 00:37:46.340 they figured it out. And if they could figure 00:37:46.340 --> 00:37:50.059 it out, they can help you figure it out rather 00:37:50.059 --> 00:37:52.280 than you trying to sort it out on your own. And 00:37:52.280 --> 00:37:56.119 so find a mentor. You know, so if you want to 00:37:56.119 --> 00:37:57.980 learn how to do this, you're a young hygienist 00:37:57.980 --> 00:38:02.719 or a young dentist Go find a practitioner that's 00:38:02.719 --> 00:38:05.340 already doing this and say, you know, I really 00:38:05.340 --> 00:38:08.440 want to do this. Can you help me? and I can't 00:38:08.440 --> 00:38:10.940 imagine anybody saying no to that right like 00:38:10.940 --> 00:38:15.420 I just can't imagine so because I As human beings 00:38:15.420 --> 00:38:17.980 we love helping people and particularly in the 00:38:17.980 --> 00:38:20.780 health professions in dentistry We all got into 00:38:20.780 --> 00:38:23.489 dentistry because we love helping people right? 00:38:24.530 --> 00:38:27.510 And so I think, you know, we love to help our 00:38:27.510 --> 00:38:30.010 colleagues as well. Anyway, so that's my advice. 00:38:30.829 --> 00:38:34.510 That's compassion in action, compassion for others. 00:38:36.469 --> 00:38:41.989 The Dalai Lama had a quote that says, I'm just 00:38:41.989 --> 00:38:44.409 paraphrasing it very loosely, but whether you're 00:38:44.409 --> 00:38:48.389 young or old, rich or poor, there are times in 00:38:48.389 --> 00:38:51.389 your life when you need help from others. And 00:38:51.389 --> 00:38:54.960 I Medicine and dentistry is a huge example of 00:38:54.960 --> 00:39:01.719 that. And the Dalai Lama just said, that's our 00:39:01.719 --> 00:39:08.360 role, is to be helpers and be kind and help figure 00:39:08.360 --> 00:39:12.019 out ways to help people that need some kind of 00:39:12.019 --> 00:39:16.699 help. And there's a benefactor from North Dakota 00:39:16.699 --> 00:39:20.929 that read that. and thinks that there needs to 00:39:20.929 --> 00:39:25.690 be more compassion in medicine. And now they 00:39:25.690 --> 00:39:28.710 have started to include some of us in dentistry 00:39:28.710 --> 00:39:34.989 that he gave $100 million to UC San Diego to 00:39:34.989 --> 00:39:40.769 create an institute. It couldn't be about Alzheimer's 00:39:40.769 --> 00:39:45.710 or cancer or AIDS or anything other. It only 00:39:45.710 --> 00:39:49.480 could be dedicated to the study. of compassion. 00:39:49.860 --> 00:39:53.780 Wow, that's awesome. Yeah, so I've had the benefit 00:39:53.780 --> 00:39:56.880 of taking some classes from them in January, 00:39:56.960 --> 00:40:01.579 I took a three day course in lead with compassion. 00:40:01.699 --> 00:40:05.039 And I think that is when you look at the bigger 00:40:05.039 --> 00:40:09.980 picture of all of this, that I think that we 00:40:09.980 --> 00:40:17.800 have to as a society, We have to bring back more 00:40:17.800 --> 00:40:21.360 compassion in our lives and be willing to help 00:40:21.360 --> 00:40:25.119 others that need help Based upon what the Dalai 00:40:25.119 --> 00:40:33.960 Lama says, you know but I just see I think hygienists 00:40:33.960 --> 00:40:39.619 are the chosen people in dentistry We of all 00:40:39.619 --> 00:40:43.059 of anybody that provides care we get to spend 00:40:43.059 --> 00:40:47.019 more time on a yearly basis than anyone else 00:40:47.019 --> 00:40:51.860 in the dental field. In healthcare. In healthcare, 00:40:52.239 --> 00:40:56.739 period. Typically, period. To me, it makes a 00:40:56.739 --> 00:41:02.480 big difference when a doctor will take the attitude 00:41:02.480 --> 00:41:08.369 that Brian did towards their team members. and 00:41:08.369 --> 00:41:11.570 challenge them to create a bigger canvas of who 00:41:11.570 --> 00:41:15.170 they can be for their patients. And that's what 00:41:15.170 --> 00:41:19.570 he did for me. And that's what opened up a whole 00:41:19.570 --> 00:41:25.909 new world of how I decided to take care of patients. 00:41:26.570 --> 00:41:31.989 And it's people like you and others that are 00:41:31.989 --> 00:41:39.590 developing these systems and I don't get involved 00:41:39.590 --> 00:41:42.389 with all these products coming down the line. 00:41:42.469 --> 00:41:47.630 I want a system that works. So I just have a 00:41:47.630 --> 00:41:50.969 huge thank you to you for developing that and 00:41:50.969 --> 00:41:55.469 it had such a huge role in how I help patients 00:41:55.469 --> 00:42:00.349 create a healthy biofilm. You had a big influence 00:42:00.349 --> 00:42:05.019 and impact in that. Well, thank you, Chris. You 00:42:05.019 --> 00:42:07.099 asked about my superpower when we started this 00:42:07.099 --> 00:42:10.360 and I said it is a blessing and a curse and there 00:42:10.360 --> 00:42:15.940 are days I feel frustrated right and it's like 00:42:15.940 --> 00:42:20.320 Why am I you know, it's like why am I doing this? 00:42:20.380 --> 00:42:21.940 I feel like some days I feel like I'm beating 00:42:21.940 --> 00:42:25.579 my head against the wall and then I will get 00:42:25.579 --> 00:42:28.539 a patient will actually email me from across 00:42:28.539 --> 00:42:31.800 the country somebody else's patient that Was 00:42:31.800 --> 00:42:34.780 using our products and you know was at a dentist 00:42:34.780 --> 00:42:37.559 that we had trained in that practice and thanking 00:42:37.559 --> 00:42:42.280 me. And, you know, it's like, oh, yep, I needed 00:42:42.280 --> 00:42:45.500 to hear that. That's why I do this. This is why 00:42:45.500 --> 00:42:48.840 I get out of bed in the morning and just once 00:42:48.840 --> 00:42:51.139 in a while hearing, you know, that you made a 00:42:51.139 --> 00:42:53.820 difference, I think helps a lot. So thank you 00:42:53.820 --> 00:42:55.840 for sharing that with me, Chris. You're making 00:42:55.840 --> 00:42:57.960 a huge difference. I mean, I see the huge difference 00:42:57.960 --> 00:43:02.719 that you're making. And I really appreciate that. 00:43:03.179 --> 00:43:06.739 Well, mine, the reason why, you know, I've been 00:43:06.739 --> 00:43:12.980 retired clinically for a while, but I still share 00:43:12.980 --> 00:43:18.280 my beliefs because I know where my gifts come 00:43:18.280 --> 00:43:24.559 from. And I have an obligation to not leave this 00:43:24.559 --> 00:43:28.480 earth without sharing those gifts and sharing 00:43:28.480 --> 00:43:33.300 them as much as I can. And so I don't want to 00:43:33.300 --> 00:43:36.159 leave this earth with even one arrow left in 00:43:36.159 --> 00:43:39.739 my quiver of gifts that you gave me that book. 00:43:40.019 --> 00:43:42.320 And I'll never forget that I read that book. 00:43:42.320 --> 00:43:45.519 I loved it. It was like, you know, use all your 00:43:45.519 --> 00:43:48.960 arrows. Yeah. Don't leave anything. You know, 00:43:48.960 --> 00:43:51.039 don't leave anything on the table. Give it everything, 00:43:51.039 --> 00:43:53.360 because that's that's why we're here. Right. 00:43:53.539 --> 00:43:55.800 Yeah. So I love that. I love that whole thought. 00:43:55.900 --> 00:43:57.980 And thank you actually for recommending that 00:43:57.980 --> 00:44:04.110 book to me. Oh, you're welcome. So, let's see. 00:44:05.409 --> 00:44:09.389 I think it would be just great if you could say 00:44:09.389 --> 00:44:14.250 a few words about the difference between coaching 00:44:14.250 --> 00:44:20.210 a patient and educating them. You know, that's 00:44:20.210 --> 00:44:28.150 a very good question, right? And you have to 00:44:28.150 --> 00:44:31.110 be... Very careful. I spent two years in a coaching 00:44:31.110 --> 00:44:36.530 program and I think the one of the challenges 00:44:36.530 --> 00:44:40.210 that I saw first starting in this risk assessment 00:44:40.210 --> 00:44:44.710 based care like 25 years ago was I realized I 00:44:44.710 --> 00:44:47.309 needed to learn how to talk to the patients differently. 00:44:47.409 --> 00:44:49.469 Like I needed to have a different conversation 00:44:49.469 --> 00:44:53.750 and I felt like I didn't have the verbal skills. 00:44:54.159 --> 00:44:57.559 to do that, right? We were trained how to do 00:44:57.559 --> 00:44:59.440 that in dental school. We were trained how to 00:44:59.440 --> 00:45:03.079 drill and fill. We weren't trained how to ask 00:45:03.079 --> 00:45:06.940 the right questions and do motivational interviewing 00:45:06.940 --> 00:45:12.920 or coaching or co -coaching or, you know, we 00:45:12.920 --> 00:45:15.940 were taught to show them how to brush and floss. 00:45:17.599 --> 00:45:20.039 For all the world that that does, right? I mean, 00:45:20.039 --> 00:45:26.809 it's like... And so I think the difference between 00:45:26.809 --> 00:45:30.889 educating the patient is showing them how to 00:45:30.889 --> 00:45:37.409 floss. And that doesn't motivate anybody to floss. 00:45:37.710 --> 00:45:40.309 If it did, everybody flossed, right? Because 00:45:40.309 --> 00:45:42.469 hygienists, you guys are really good at that. 00:45:43.050 --> 00:45:45.110 You got the big models and the teeth, and you've 00:45:45.110 --> 00:45:49.550 been showing patients that forever. Very few 00:45:49.550 --> 00:45:52.289 people floss or floss regularly, right? So just 00:45:52.289 --> 00:45:55.489 showing somebody something doesn't change behavior 00:45:55.489 --> 00:46:00.630 It's being able to help them identify what they 00:46:00.630 --> 00:46:04.989 want See the benefit in that in their own life 00:46:04.989 --> 00:46:10.030 and health and then being able to like Help them 00:46:10.030 --> 00:46:13.190 as they need help. I mean I see coaching in in 00:46:13.190 --> 00:46:15.969 terms of in classic coaching the work is all 00:46:15.969 --> 00:46:20.119 on the patient You know you want to whatever 00:46:20.119 --> 00:46:23.159 make this change in your life I am here to support 00:46:23.159 --> 00:46:25.719 you but listen i'm not going to stand in your 00:46:25.719 --> 00:46:28.320 bathroom every morning at 7 a .m and go remember 00:46:28.320 --> 00:46:31.219 to floss You know if you want to make that change 00:46:31.219 --> 00:46:33.800 i'm going to cheer you on and I might give you 00:46:33.800 --> 00:46:37.579 some ideas or tools to help you create that new 00:46:37.579 --> 00:46:40.900 habit, but I But I'm not going to do it for you. 00:46:40.900 --> 00:46:42.639 You have to do that. Right. So when it comes 00:46:42.639 --> 00:46:45.840 to peer coaching, in fact, it's best if the patient 00:46:45.840 --> 00:46:48.320 comes up with the solution themselves. Like, 00:46:48.440 --> 00:46:50.400 oh, how are you going to do that? How are you 00:46:50.400 --> 00:46:52.460 going to remember to do that? So you get that 00:46:52.460 --> 00:46:54.559 change. You know, we had this classic belief 00:46:54.559 --> 00:46:58.260 that you could develop a new habit in 21 days. 00:46:58.699 --> 00:47:01.599 And that is such a fallacy. We now know that 00:47:01.599 --> 00:47:04.659 it takes about nine months and at nine months 00:47:04.659 --> 00:47:09.309 with daily reminding. For us to create a sustainable 00:47:09.309 --> 00:47:13.489 new habit nine months. This isn't a 321 day kind 00:47:13.489 --> 00:47:16.809 of thing And so being able to help the patient 00:47:16.809 --> 00:47:19.050 if they don't have a so we can't come up with 00:47:19.050 --> 00:47:21.730 a solution Well, here's some here's an idea. 00:47:21.730 --> 00:47:23.829 Here's what's worked for other patients of mine 00:47:23.829 --> 00:47:26.070 Here's two or three ideas that you know, and 00:47:26.070 --> 00:47:27.590 here's something that worked for me. You might 00:47:27.590 --> 00:47:31.090 think about that you know at times I'll help 00:47:31.090 --> 00:47:33.969 the the patient lead them a little bit in terms 00:47:33.969 --> 00:47:36.960 of Giving them some ideas if they can't come 00:47:36.960 --> 00:47:40.480 up with any on their own But if you can let them 00:47:40.480 --> 00:47:42.579 come up with the idea and the solution on their 00:47:42.579 --> 00:47:47.940 own and you can just help reinforce that That's 00:47:47.940 --> 00:47:50.019 where you're going to be most successful I I 00:47:50.019 --> 00:47:52.239 want to add one more thing chris because I think 00:47:52.239 --> 00:47:55.300 When I was first doing this I was and I was doing 00:47:55.300 --> 00:47:57.119 ending up i'm impatient to have a lot of cavities 00:47:57.119 --> 00:47:59.619 start coming to me Like word of mouth and it's 00:47:59.619 --> 00:48:01.760 like oh this guy is like, you know Help you and 00:48:01.760 --> 00:48:04.139 help you stop getting cavities and I mean, you 00:48:04.139 --> 00:48:06.400 know And so I saw these people that were quite 00:48:06.400 --> 00:48:10.059 desperate, but they had Tremendous need for restorative 00:48:10.059 --> 00:48:12.539 dentistry like they had mouths full of cavities 00:48:12.539 --> 00:48:16.039 And so suddenly i'm doing I'm trying to treat 00:48:16.039 --> 00:48:18.260 this from a medical standpoint and I find myself 00:48:18.260 --> 00:48:21.739 doing all these major restorative cases on these 00:48:21.739 --> 00:48:23.900 patients because At the end of the day I could 00:48:23.900 --> 00:48:26.380 get them to stop having new cavities, but I still 00:48:26.380 --> 00:48:31.559 had to restore the damage that was there and 00:48:31.559 --> 00:48:35.019 I'll never forget one day during my coaching 00:48:35.019 --> 00:48:39.639 program. I had this like I would sequentialize 00:48:39.639 --> 00:48:42.079 the treatment So first we're going to do this 00:48:42.079 --> 00:48:44.260 then we're going to do that and then we're going 00:48:44.260 --> 00:48:47.159 to do this So I lay out their restorative care 00:48:47.159 --> 00:48:50.559 like in four or five logical steps. It was my 00:48:50.559 --> 00:48:56.059 idea, right? Yeah, and One day I realized You 00:48:56.059 --> 00:48:58.239 know if you want somebody to be successful like 00:48:58.239 --> 00:49:00.119 I would have a patient Let's say that they needed 00:49:00.119 --> 00:49:02.360 to start brushing and flossing better and they 00:49:02.360 --> 00:49:07.420 also needed to give up Mountain dew right because 00:49:07.420 --> 00:49:10.429 they were drinking six a day, right? And so we'd 00:49:10.429 --> 00:49:12.570 identify those two risk factors. We'd talk about 00:49:12.570 --> 00:49:15.690 it. And then I would say, OK, here's where you 00:49:15.690 --> 00:49:18.769 should start. And I finally got to the point 00:49:18.769 --> 00:49:22.329 where I realized, what would you like to do first? 00:49:22.889 --> 00:49:24.250 Right? We're only going to try it. We're only 00:49:24.250 --> 00:49:26.730 going to do one thing at a time, because it's 00:49:26.730 --> 00:49:28.889 hard enough to make behavioral change. You can 00:49:28.889 --> 00:49:31.349 only do one at a time. Which one would you pick? 00:49:31.809 --> 00:49:34.530 And found that instead of me telling them what 00:49:34.530 --> 00:49:38.960 to do, letting them decide, a lot more successful 00:49:38.960 --> 00:49:41.239 for them and then if I could get them to come 00:49:41.239 --> 00:49:43.480 up with a solution and I'd press them like I 00:49:43.480 --> 00:49:46.019 want to have a specific solution like take the 00:49:46.019 --> 00:49:48.079 example of the two patients at both say I want 00:49:48.079 --> 00:49:50.920 to lose 15 pounds and The one says yeah, I'm 00:49:50.920 --> 00:49:52.739 just gonna I'm gonna lose it. I'm working on 00:49:52.739 --> 00:49:56.039 that and the other one says well I'm gonna start 00:49:56.039 --> 00:49:57.820 it. I mean right from here. I'm going to the 00:49:57.820 --> 00:50:00.400 gym. I'm gonna get a gym membership I'm gonna 00:50:00.400 --> 00:50:02.920 be there like Four mornings a week before work. 00:50:03.099 --> 00:50:06.500 I'm going to start measuring portions of food 00:50:06.500 --> 00:50:08.539 I'm going to look at hidden sugars in my you 00:50:08.539 --> 00:50:10.619 know, somebody that has a specific plan of those 00:50:10.619 --> 00:50:14.199 two people who's most likely to lose 15 pounds 00:50:14.199 --> 00:50:16.840 Somebody that has it has come up with a very 00:50:16.840 --> 00:50:20.619 specific Plan for themselves and so if I could 00:50:20.619 --> 00:50:24.139 just help patients create that plan and let them 00:50:24.139 --> 00:50:26.820 pick where they wanted to start It became a lot 00:50:26.820 --> 00:50:30.329 more successful. So It's a long -winded answer 00:50:30.329 --> 00:50:33.329 to your very short question and I apologize but 00:50:33.329 --> 00:50:35.489 but I think you know the difference between educating 00:50:35.489 --> 00:50:39.070 a patient and coaching is Educating it was just 00:50:39.070 --> 00:50:41.190 demonstrating something and coaching is actually 00:50:41.190 --> 00:50:44.449 helping them understand Why they want to do it 00:50:44.449 --> 00:50:46.889 and help motivate them to actually accomplish 00:50:46.889 --> 00:50:49.030 it and giving them the skills they need to make 00:50:49.030 --> 00:50:53.889 it happen Yeah That's good. You know Malcolm 00:50:53.889 --> 00:50:57.389 Gladwell in the tipping point talks about you 00:50:57.389 --> 00:51:01.780 got a have three components. You got to make 00:51:01.780 --> 00:51:05.340 it personal, practical, and your message has 00:51:05.340 --> 00:51:08.400 got to be sticky. So it doesn't go in one ear 00:51:08.400 --> 00:51:12.559 and out the other. So yeah, all good things. 00:51:14.019 --> 00:51:17.119 Yeah, look at the growth you've had. Oh, my goodness. 00:51:17.380 --> 00:51:21.639 You know, I you know, I was just on a guest on 00:51:21.639 --> 00:51:25.900 a podcast two days ago. And they started talking 00:51:25.900 --> 00:51:28.019 about all the things that I'd done in my career, 00:51:28.159 --> 00:51:31.119 right? And they asked, you know, do you ever 00:51:31.119 --> 00:51:36.079 look back and go, wow, like, you know, how did 00:51:36.079 --> 00:51:39.440 you get there? And because I had actually asked 00:51:39.440 --> 00:51:44.179 the host, like, wow, how did how did you how 00:51:44.179 --> 00:51:47.099 did you get to there in your life? Right. And 00:51:47.099 --> 00:51:50.630 they were like, well. And I and I started thinking 00:51:50.630 --> 00:51:52.130 about and then they asked me and I started thinking 00:51:52.130 --> 00:51:54.010 about it It's like, you know when I graduated 00:51:54.010 --> 00:51:55.710 from dental school, I just want to be a dentist 00:51:55.710 --> 00:51:58.010 I want to be a very good dentist. I wanted to 00:51:58.010 --> 00:52:00.969 have a great practice. I wanted to help all my 00:52:00.969 --> 00:52:05.349 patients And then I got you know, my curiosity 00:52:05.349 --> 00:52:08.590 that's a curse to my curiosity took You know 00:52:08.590 --> 00:52:10.429 took me to the point of like well, how can I 00:52:10.429 --> 00:52:13.409 do this better? You know, and you know, I continued 00:52:13.409 --> 00:52:16.460 to always look for innovations. I felt like it 00:52:16.460 --> 00:52:18.639 was part of my responsibility as stewardship 00:52:18.639 --> 00:52:22.099 in the profession to leave it better than when 00:52:22.099 --> 00:52:26.500 I was inherited it, right, from the people ahead 00:52:26.500 --> 00:52:30.260 of us. And so I was always looking for a better 00:52:30.260 --> 00:52:33.559 way, always doing that. And if you're curious, 00:52:33.699 --> 00:52:36.019 you know, I kind of went through one door and 00:52:36.019 --> 00:52:38.179 that was a whole new hallway with a bunch of 00:52:38.179 --> 00:52:42.940 doors. Went through a different door and my curiosity 00:52:42.940 --> 00:52:45.900 led me down another hallway and pretty soon you 00:52:45.900 --> 00:52:49.699 end up like You know being a clinical dentist 00:52:49.699 --> 00:52:53.000 was such a small part of my my life and career, 00:52:53.219 --> 00:52:56.119 right? I mean I love clinical practice but and 00:52:56.119 --> 00:52:59.440 I look back on my career and it actually was 00:52:59.440 --> 00:53:03.300 a very just a small percentage of what I've actually 00:53:03.300 --> 00:53:06.480 ended up doing with my life in my education in 00:53:06.480 --> 00:53:09.880 terms of um creating you know or building businesses 00:53:09.880 --> 00:53:12.340 creating products changing philosophies writing 00:53:12.340 --> 00:53:16.019 books uh having my own podcast if you'd have 00:53:16.019 --> 00:53:19.559 told me five years ago i'd have a podcast i'd 00:53:19.559 --> 00:53:21.860 have laughed at you and i'm sure i'm sure you 00:53:21.860 --> 00:53:24.400 can kind of identify with that chris but then 00:53:24.400 --> 00:53:26.679 i sit here and go people ask well how'd you do 00:53:26.679 --> 00:53:28.780 that and it's like you know it was just a series 00:53:28.780 --> 00:53:32.829 of decisions but It was somewhat serendipitous 00:53:32.829 --> 00:53:35.530 led by my curiosity because like I say my that 00:53:35.530 --> 00:53:39.269 wasn't my plan like I look back I absolutely 00:53:39.269 --> 00:53:41.429 wouldn't change anything in my life. I've loved 00:53:41.429 --> 00:53:47.989 every opportunity i've had um And oh another 00:53:47.989 --> 00:53:53.809 person A great dentist friend has a saying that 00:53:53.809 --> 00:53:58.199 persistence creates opportunity Like just keep 00:53:58.199 --> 00:54:02.519 doing it and opportunity will come and having 00:54:02.519 --> 00:54:05.639 that I think that optimism You know, I've been 00:54:05.639 --> 00:54:08.500 able to do so many things research, you know 00:54:08.500 --> 00:54:12.219 inventions I I just it's been so much fun, you 00:54:12.219 --> 00:54:14.820 know, and I'm still having fun. I retired from 00:54:14.820 --> 00:54:17.679 clinical practice like you did I retired in 2019 00:54:17.679 --> 00:54:20.039 I miss my team my patients and what have you 00:54:20.039 --> 00:54:23.659 but it's given me the time and flexibility and 00:54:23.659 --> 00:54:27.750 freedom to actually do more in terms of, I think, 00:54:27.769 --> 00:54:32.530 helping a greater number of people. So I'm just, 00:54:32.710 --> 00:54:37.789 I'm living my best life, you know. Well, I love 00:54:37.789 --> 00:54:41.289 that you have used the word curiosity many times 00:54:41.289 --> 00:54:47.650 today because I see the difference. I learned 00:54:47.650 --> 00:54:52.110 the difference. We lose our curiosity as we start 00:54:52.110 --> 00:54:58.059 to grow up. Children ask anywhere from more than 00:54:58.059 --> 00:55:02.219 300 questions a day. How come? Why is that? Are 00:55:02.219 --> 00:55:06.199 you sure? Mommy, why is this happening? And as 00:55:06.199 --> 00:55:10.539 we get older, we come to think we know the answers 00:55:10.539 --> 00:55:14.219 to all the questions. So we stop asking questions 00:55:14.219 --> 00:55:19.079 and we lose curiosity. And so I love that. You 00:55:19.079 --> 00:55:24.019 have stayed curious and your curiosity has driven 00:55:24.019 --> 00:55:29.000 a lot of your success in helping people. So that's 00:55:29.000 --> 00:55:33.119 a great legacy. What specifically do you want 00:55:33.119 --> 00:55:37.519 your legacy to be? Oh, you know, I haven't even 00:55:37.519 --> 00:55:42.940 thought about that, Chris. I think I want to 00:55:42.940 --> 00:55:46.079 be a great example for my children and grandchildren 00:55:46.079 --> 00:55:51.260 that I want them to have a belief that they can 00:55:51.260 --> 00:55:55.780 accomplish anything in the world that they Can 00:55:55.780 --> 00:56:00.360 dream of right? I guess that if I could Leave 00:56:00.360 --> 00:56:03.320 leave some example for them that anything is 00:56:03.320 --> 00:56:06.920 possible If you just believe and if you're willing 00:56:06.920 --> 00:56:10.480 to put the work in if you're willing to be persistent 00:56:10.480 --> 00:56:14.820 opportunities will come and I think for me, that's 00:56:14.820 --> 00:56:17.179 that's the most important legacy, you know being 00:56:17.179 --> 00:56:19.869 a a great husband and father and grandfather. 00:56:20.949 --> 00:56:23.309 And then I think, you know, from a professional 00:56:23.309 --> 00:56:26.469 standpoint, just that I'm that I was a positive 00:56:26.469 --> 00:56:30.590 influence and I and I help people, you know. 00:56:32.130 --> 00:56:37.110 I had a physician, he was elderly at the time. 00:56:38.409 --> 00:56:42.429 And I said, looking back at your life, how would 00:56:42.429 --> 00:56:45.119 you define, you know, success? And he was in 00:56:45.119 --> 00:56:48.400 his 90s at the time. And he said, Kim, I want 00:56:48.400 --> 00:56:50.659 to believe that I help more people than I hurt. 00:56:54.400 --> 00:56:57.460 And I thought, you know, what a beautiful statement, 00:56:57.860 --> 00:57:00.019 because I think we unintentionally hurt people 00:57:00.019 --> 00:57:02.800 in our life as we go through our journey. And 00:57:02.800 --> 00:57:05.679 just knowing that or hoping that you're you're 00:57:05.679 --> 00:57:09.880 helping more people. I think that's that's kind 00:57:09.880 --> 00:57:14.170 of a legacy I'd like to have. Yeah. And it's 00:57:14.170 --> 00:57:17.769 a big one. And it's right on point, sir. Oh, 00:57:17.929 --> 00:57:21.510 thanks, Chris. You're welcome. Any last words 00:57:21.510 --> 00:57:27.110 you have for our listeners today? I, you know, 00:57:27.110 --> 00:57:30.429 I guess, Chris, I really appreciate you. I think 00:57:30.429 --> 00:57:34.889 they're I really appreciate your invitation here 00:57:34.889 --> 00:57:37.110 to be on your podcast. I've enjoyed this conversation. 00:57:37.150 --> 00:57:39.710 I love talking to you and talking about all these 00:57:39.710 --> 00:57:44.840 ideas and topics. Think is the same thing I would 00:57:44.840 --> 00:57:47.860 tell them is is become your own advocate when 00:57:47.860 --> 00:57:50.119 it comes to your health care Become your own 00:57:50.119 --> 00:57:54.260 advocate educate yourself ask questions Don't 00:57:54.260 --> 00:57:58.159 just accept the you know here take this pill 00:57:58.159 --> 00:58:00.719 But why am I taking this pill and what could 00:58:00.719 --> 00:58:04.760 what could I do? Maybe in my lifestyle that might 00:58:04.760 --> 00:58:09.079 alter that so I didn't need it You know, how 00:58:09.079 --> 00:58:11.260 can I get healthy? You know, ask those kind of 00:58:11.260 --> 00:58:13.360 questions. And at the same point in time, have 00:58:13.360 --> 00:58:16.599 faith and hope and the confidence that whatever 00:58:16.599 --> 00:58:18.440 it is you want to accomplish in your life, it's 00:58:18.440 --> 00:58:21.659 possible, right? I mean, you know, it's possible. 00:58:22.219 --> 00:58:26.260 So I think that's the message I'd like to leave. 00:58:27.139 --> 00:58:30.460 Absolutely. And it's a great one. And thank you 00:58:30.460 --> 00:58:33.340 so much for being on the Health Lifelines podcast 00:58:33.340 --> 00:58:36.639 with me today. I really appreciate it. Thank 00:58:36.639 --> 00:58:39.019 you, Chris, and I can't wait to see you again 00:58:39.019 --> 00:58:43.800 sometime. All right, that sounds good. That's 00:58:43.800 --> 00:58:47.159 it for today's episode of Health Lifelines, brought 00:58:47.159 --> 00:58:50.219 to you by the Lifeguard Approach. I hope you 00:58:50.219 --> 00:58:53.079 found inspiration and actionable insights to 00:58:53.079 --> 00:58:55.880 support you and your patients' journeys towards 00:58:55.880 --> 00:58:59.219 better health and more fulfilling lives. Remember, 00:59:00.019 --> 00:59:04.340 every small step you take today builds the foundation 00:59:04.340 --> 00:59:08.510 for a healthier tomorrow. If you enjoyed this 00:59:08.510 --> 00:59:11.469 episode, please take a moment to rate, review, 00:59:11.929 --> 00:59:14.309 and share the podcast with someone who could 00:59:14.309 --> 00:59:17.489 benefit from it. Your support helps us reach 00:59:17.489 --> 00:59:20.750 more listeners and grow this community of health 00:59:20.750 --> 00:59:23.650 -conscious individuals and dental professionals 00:59:23.650 --> 00:59:26.789 focused on becoming lifeguards for their patients. 00:59:27.719 --> 00:59:31.139 For more tips, tools, and resources from the 00:59:31.139 --> 00:59:35.880 Lifeguard Approach, visit us online at thelifeguardapproach 00:59:35.880 --> 00:59:40.219 .com. Also, follow us on Instagram, Facebook, 00:59:40.719 --> 00:59:44.320 or LinkedIn at The Lifeguard Approach. Thank 00:59:44.320 --> 00:59:47.900 you for tuning in. Until next time, stay informed, 00:59:48.420 --> 00:59:51.480 stay inspired, and keep showing up as a lifeguard 00:59:51.480 --> 00:59:55.079 for your patients at every single appointment.