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Hey there and welcome back to Now We Consume.
I am your host, Gibbs, and along with me is my co-host.
I'm Pip.
And today we have a very interesting topic to discuss with you all.
But first we want to discuss last week's podcast.
I want to say thank you everyone for reaching out.
Thank you everyone for listening.
We got a lot of great suggestions, a lot of really great feedback, and we are really looking
forward to implementing those in the coming episodes.
And also thank you for the suggestions for the different episodes we're going to do.
We got quite a few of them and we're definitely throwing in the rotation and we will be getting
to those.
That being said, shall we start off with today?
Yeah.
So this is one that we've kind of gone back and forth on a little bit.
It's something that if everything goes the way that it's going to go, it's going to affect
the lives of everybody on earth.
Elon Musk, otherwise known as Daddy Musk, is trying to put people on Mars.
Whether or not that's going to happen, we don't know.
But it's something that he's shooting for and if nothing, we know the man's persistent
and is able to achieve goals in a timetable that honestly is kind of mind numbing.
It's going to be very interesting to see if this is going to actually ever happen.
I think you're more optimistic on the subject, whereas I'm a little bit more pessimistic
on the subject.
Right, because I've seen, you've seen it too, he said he was going to do the rockets in
you know what, five, ten years.
Would he do it in like 12?
Yeah, which is so crazy.
Yeah, and look how reliable they are.
Somehow he has done it.
But I think that there's so many factors involved with humanity moving a primary residence to
another planet that I don't know.
It's such a big undertaking.
There's so many technical and economic challenges and even political challenges and everything
else involved with it that we have a lot to discuss.
So I guess the thing is you would know a little bit more than I would about this one, but
what is his like actual vision here?
What is he looking to do?
Like what's the objective?
What's the goal?
Yeah, OK.
So his plan is to put a million people on Mars over the course of 20 years.
No freaking way.
I think he's got his ship set up to take 100 people at a time.
Now that's on me.
I didn't do the math prior to this, but that's like 50 bajillion rocket launches or something.
I don't know something like that.
That's a lot of that's a lot of time just traveling back and forth, let alone that's
the bigger project is going to be almost getting people there, let alone getting them set up
and survive like a million people.
You said what, 20 years?
Yeah, over the course of 20 years.
Is that according to him?
Is that according to Tesla or like a news site or something?
Yeah, no, that's that's that's him.
That is his goal.
Jesus.
I figured like, oh, yeah, 10,000 people in like 40 years.
A million.
Yeah.
Good.
But I think that's also him taking into account once people are there and established just
reproduction and natural processes as well.
OK, so to support a million people.
Yeah, might be the better.
OK, but even so, that's insane.
Yeah, that that's that's huge.
I mean, we'd be lucky to get a thousand people there, I think.
You think it's only going to be a thousand?
Well, in 20 years.
Well, no, OK, given that the starship can take 100 people.
And how many starships is he going to build?
Hundreds.
Well, how how how big are they?
They hold 100 people.
I mean, basically, I guess it's the the the the bus of our solar system, I guess.
It's not going to have to be.
I'm assuming they're not like super expensive or anything.
No, but they're not.
They're not bad.
God.
That's that's a I don't know.
I mean, I think it's because of how unforgiving space is.
And God forbid, if you get any one little thing wrong, it's not like,
oh, we have a flat tire.
It's everything's great.
Then we're dead.
Like there is no in between space.
Space doesn't say, hold on, I'll kill you in a half hour.
No, you just die.
So, you know, I just what's the quote in space?
No one can hear you scream.
Yeah, exactly.
And I hate to be that person, but I know with Tesla's quality control lately,
I'm very concerned about.
Well, yeah, because the cybertrucks were dying in the cold of Canada,
let alone the cold of space.
Well, that's sorry, guys.
The starship won't start because it's too cold.
I guess that's that's that's my like, don't get me wrong.
I love the fact that he's doing it.
But holy crap.
Are you going to have to sign some legal waivers and paperwork?
Oh, to be able to take a trip to Mars.
Right.
Because you know, this is another question.
I know that's not as interesting to people.
I just want to know the legality of what's going to happen
when laws are put in place about space travel, even just leaving Earth, being like,
right, you have to guarantee this or guarantee that.
Or do you not? Do you sign waivers?
Can you sue? Can you not? That's right.
Well, like, did did you ever watch The Martian?
Oh, one of my favorite movies of all time.
Absolutely. So they actually brought up the point
that it's all kind of like international waters.
There really aren't any laws that govern, you know, a lot of those those places
and spots and situations.
So it's it's the Wild West of the Wild West.
So I guess the question is with space travel, if you're not using something
that's owned by a government agency or any sort of government, it's really just
international water rules, basically.
More or less. That's the way that I understand everything as I've read.
So as I remember from The Martian, drinking and flying is legal.
So you can get wasted in space on your way to Mars.
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That's that's honestly all the alcoholics are just
going to be signing the hell up. Like what you mean?
I could take actually how long how long would the trip be from Earth?
I know it depends on so they are in the orbit.
Yeah, it depends on the orbit.
But the best case scenario is a six month trip.
So so all I'm hearing all the alcoholics are hearing.
So wait a minute, I could take a six month cruise and I can be drunk
the entire friggin time that I bet you that's what I'm hearing.
A six month bender. God.
Arrive on Mars.
I don't know where we're going, but it's sure red.
I like you. I don't but.
Yeah. So so you've got a long trip to Mars.
You turn around and the other alternative is the moon.
The moon. It's a three day trip to the moon by normal, conventional means
that may be more attainable.
It's definitely going to be a lot easier to make that happen.
And also, if we build up the moon first,
we can make that a much cheaper alternative to launch from to Mars
and anywhere else in the solar system.
So the question becomes, do we
focus solely on Mars or do we focus on the moon first,
build that up and then work on the moon first makes way more sense
because if there is a problem, we can at least get there.
Whereas right, logically speaking, that makes way more sense.
Because I just we've we've both seen the Martians, so we know.
It is a movie, but it is pretty realistic in terms of some of the issues.
And I could not imagine people moving to another planet,
having to basically plant their waste matter to grow potatoes.
Being very fun.
Oh, the the infamous poo potatoes. Oh, yes.
You know, but no, no, it seems like to me we have to do something with the moon
anyway, because it's already there. It's already so close.
It's already a stable platform for us to build on.
The problem is it doesn't really have any natural resource or anything.
It's just literally a thing that doesn't have much to give us.
As far as I'm aware, it's got lots of metals and stuff to give us.
It's got helium three to give us. OK.
So then because that's something I actually don't know about.
Is it is it like profitable to mine and or do anything on the moon?
Because we would have to build a lot of infrastructure, but it would be smarter,
I think, to develop the same thing for their granted.
I know atmosphere is very different on Mars compared to the moon,
because the moon really doesn't have that much of an atmosphere, if not at all.
But with it would be a way of testing your production, your construction,
your construction, you know, how things are actually developed to put together.
It'd be a far better plan.
I agree with you to do that first before moving to Mars.
Yeah, because like on the moon, you have lots of silicon,
lots of titanium, lots of other metals.
Oh, yeah. Titanium is very common on the moon.
Oh, that that is a required resource if we're going to be doing space travel
because you can't use aluminum.
I guess you can, but like you probably shouldn't.
You you can, but not no, not recommended.
Put it that way. No, you can actually get oxygen out of the lunar soil.
There's iron, there's calcium, magnesium, lots of other elements.
So it could be used as a as a good staging platform
or even possibly your construction materials, things like that.
OK, so definitely why wouldn't they go moon first?
Right now, that seems like the obvious choice.
And not to mention that there's ice all over the moon.
Ice we can turn into rocket fuel, oxygen, drinking water.
I mean, I'm just saying it seems like the logical step.
But then there's always the the the I guess the money cost
with that, like I I would not even be able to give you
any sort of figure, but good God, is that going to be expensive?
One hundred billion dollars.
Honestly, I feel like that would be too cheap.
It's going to be the truth.
It's going to be tens of trillions to really get anything going.
Probably trillions. Yes.
But I guess the question becomes now, now that Elon Musk has proved
that a lot of this is possible,
that's going to be the next big race we have.
It's going to be the next big gold rush is going to be pretty much
because there's no there's no rules about how you have to do it.
So if you're the first one, he's he's he's writing the rulebook as he goes.
Yeah. And the point is,
you know, and the more he proves his technology works,
the more he's just kind of pushing himself to go further.
Hmm. So NASA is trying to go to the moon.
He's going to get there first.
What do we NASA's trying? They've already been there.
Well, yes, but they're trying to go there again,
because somehow they lost the technology to go there.
Oh, that it's because of money.
I know it's all is NASA got like a lot.
So that's why the lunar flights were canceled. Yeah.
Well, you got so much money taken away from them, which is sad, really.
It's a shame that a
multi billionaire has to take his own private money, be like, I will be NASA.
That's kind of sad.
But yeah, it is.
But he's actually doing a pretty good job with that.
Yeah. So now, to be fair, there's a lot of things that he will need NASA's help on.
He cannot get nuclear material if he wants to experiment with
non like green type energy based power generation.
Oh, God.
I couldn't imagine the challenges of doing nuclear power.
Out in space on the moon.
But hold on to the moon has a decent has some sort of atmosphere, right?
It has a very, very, very small amount of atmosphere,
and it's typically low to the ground, we'll say.
So would you be able to radiate heat?
Or not really would be able to heat dissipation.
You can you can use metal radiators to get rid of heat.
You just keep them in shade.
Because that would be if he needs nuclear material to build a reactor,
because you're going to need a lot of power on the moon.
You could, I guess, technically go solar for that.
You can on the moon. Yes.
That's something you can do.
But yeah. But the issue becomes
you get two weeks of solar and then you get two weeks of night.
So if you go solar on the moon, it basically has to be in orbit,
not like around the belt of the moon, but around the
halo crown of the moon going north to south.
Oh, that's a pain in the butt.
So in order to be able to use any sort of solar power,
like we're going to batteries and stuff like that,
you would need like an alkaline metal on the moon.
So do they have alkaline metals and things like that on the moon?
Oh, yeah. Sodium, potassium.
Those are alkaline metals.
Other stuff that comes via meteorite impact.
And that kind of takes us into another portion of the discussion is
what about asteroid mining?
I don't even know if we have the tech.
Like, would we be able to keep up?
But that's that's my wonders.
We'll be able to make a ship that can keep up with an asteroid.
Do we even have that kind of so? So I don't know that we have the technology
now to do it, but once we're starting to branch out,
I think it's something that's going to have to be made.
Necessity is the mother of all invention.
That's probably going to be something that's necessitated.
Once we're starting to branch out and become a multi planetary,
multi spatial body, civilly,
civilization, you're talking pretty far in the future.
That's long past we get the moon colonized.
It's one thing to do like rocket science and figure it out.
But the whole other thing to be able to get a vehicle that can
catch up to an asteroid land without the debris hitting it or anything else
hitting it land to be able to mine and extract materials in an efficient manner
and to be able to safely leave with the materials and also have the
all of that be profitable.
That's the underlying.
Well, you're I think I think you're talking about like huge asteroids.
Think about the small ones, the ones that are the size of a car, a bus,
a small house.
We could capture those themselves.
It doesn't take a lot about this.
Are there a lot of those like just in the solar system?
Oh, yeah. Tens of actually literally never occurred to me because we always
think of like larger objects.
Yeah, the big ones. Right.
But not only that, we have large.
Interplanetary bodies like the dwarf planet Ceres.
You know, the biggest it bigger than the moon.
Oh, OK. So it's like in between.
Uh huh.
OK. The the asteroid was at forty two psyche.
Was it forty two psyche?
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's worth what? Forty fourteen quadrillion dollars.
Just worth of like iron and nickel from initial scans.
Good God. OK. Yeah.
It's it's it's got enough metal to literally crash the economy of the planet.
Catches one asteroid.
Do you think that's oh, my God.
I guess I didn't realize that.
Yeah, so there's there is money out there that we can get.
It's just a matter of getting it, not necessarily the money.
It's the resources that we need to capture.
You get them to where we need them, the moon, Mars, orbital platforms, whatever.
And use them there, because if we're going to live on the moon,
if we're going to live on Mars, if we're going to live anywhere in space,
we have to build infrastructure to make the things that we need.
We can take the bare minimum as much as I hate to reference this.
You think about any kind of survival type video game.
Like any of like the high engineering level games,
you're given a basic amount of resources that you can take with you.
Everything else you have to do when you're there.
It's the exact same premise.
We get to the moon, we can take some basic materials.
We can take some basic machinery and equipment with us.
After that, we have to use the resources there to make the rest.
3D printing is going to be a huge
thing on both the moon and Mars.
Lunar regolith, we make it with a little bit of the water
that we get from the ice that's on the moon.
We can 3D print structures to live in.
Shield us from solar radiation, shield us from solar or
cosmic radiation.
That way we don't have to just live underground.
We're using the resources that are already there.
Same thing on Mars.
We can print our way out of a lot of situations.
Oh, yeah. And the good thing, at least with the moon, is if you need anything,
it's three days away. Exactly.
Ship from Mars to Earth is going to take a lot more time.
Now, to be fair, we can start shipping stuff ahead of time
in cargo rockets, and it's easier to do that than it is to ship
a human rocket. You don't have to provide an atmosphere.
You don't have to provide food and water.
You can just ship that thing, stuff to the brim, get it going
and set it down or leave it in orbit.
That's that's much easier to do.
And you can send those out as needed.
Humans, unfortunately, we take food, water, sleep.
You know, we need exercise.
Those are those are harder to move.
That there's going to be a whole industry around just human
interstellar travel and interplanetary travel.
Oh, yeah, 100 percent.
And it's going to be something that's not just incredibly expensive,
but I guess from from my perspective, I wanted the intersection of where
politics is going to get involved with it, where regulations
going to get involved in it.
I wonder how much it's going to slow down this entire process.
Or or is even I'm going to say you have no jurisdiction.
You know, so I want kind of thing.
I'm very curious what's going to happen in that direction.
Right. So years ago, a lot of the countries that felt they could
get to the moon signed a treaty saying that nobody could own the moon.
So I think that's going to probably be a big issue.
So I think that's going to play into it.
Now, those were countries.
No one thought about private companies.
And essentially, I think this is just me talking.
I think what it's going to come down to is whoever gets to the moon,
set up a perimeter of what they think they can control on the moon
and protect is going to be theirs.
So we may have lunar warfare,
corporate warfare, literally with advanced weaponry,
defending their corporate resources.
I don't know. It sounds kind of far fetched.
It sounds out there. But is it really?
It'll be more economic warfare than corporate warfare.
It'll be the case, we hope.
But oh, yeah, we people will kill people on Earth for resources and whatnot.
Who's to say they won't do it on the moon?
And it's easier up there because all you got to do is puncture the spacesuit
and they're done.
Yeah, so a mad man with a nail gun and suddenly they own the moon.
Like, basically, yeah.
People on Earth kill each other because they look at each other the wrong way.
So I've been on especially, I guess, the psychological element of imagine
you're on the moon. You can see Earth.
You've been there for 35 or 40 days.
You really don't get to do anything you want to do.
You're busy working, you're sitting there holding a nail gun going, man,
I could make so much money if I just off this one.
Oh, my God.
It's going to get wild. Just one little crack in his helmet.
One little nick in his suit.
And Jimmy doesn't go home. Exactly.
It's I guess it's going to be the first time for humans in the last,
you know, 100 or 150 years for most most humans anywhere
where you are going to truly be alone with the people around you.
There is no one you can call granted three days away.
We used to people used to be months away when you're talking about
like the span of the Americas back in like the 17th century.
So, yes, I know it's weirdly enough, they're closer on the moon than they were
in the 1820s and 30s being across the country.
I'm aware of that.
But at the same point, you you still feel so removed from the consequences.
You're that far away from everything.
But I what I'm curious about is I don't I don't know how many humans
I think it's going to take special people to be able to handle the psychological
level and load that's going to take to be able to be out there and deal with
the fact that you must exercise to maintain your body.
You must eat a certain way.
You have to wear certain clothing.
You have to live a certain lifestyle and you have to live it.
You're not just there for a little bit.
Like if I would assume if you're there building a space station,
you're going to be there a while.
You know, this is most likely. Yeah.
You know, this isn't like a space station.
This is most likely. Yeah. You know, this isn't like the International Space Station
where someone go up for a certain amount of time.
Granted, doesn't always go doesn't always go as expected.
Sometimes you stay in like the longer the 10 day trip that turned into the two month trip.
Oh, my God. Boeing.
I'd be the angriest man orbiting the Earth. Oh, my God.
Oh, my God. Oh, my God.
I to be fair, I have a fear of heights.
So let me tell you, the International Space Station.
I'd be losing my mind. Absolutely not.
You shit yourself every day. You look at that cupola.
I I will be real. I think I'd lock myself in the bathroom.
Just be like, I'll wait. I'll wait. It's fine.
I'd have the strap. I can strap myself down to the chair.
I feel like I'm I have gravity. That's it. We're good.
No, I'm not doing it. No, you can't make me. Absolutely not.
Nope. Oh, be be like that scene from Bird Box.
No, absolutely not.
Oh, but but no, to to kind of segue back into what you were saying
about like government involvement and everything.
I think once.
The governments and the corporations that are funding them
start to see the benefits of the resources that the moon and Mars can provide,
especially things like helium three,
some of the other materials that come out of there from the moon.
Helium three, if you don't know, can be used in a type of nuclear fusion.
This I know. So once.
Yeah, we don't have a lot of helium three on Earth.
It does not occur naturally on Earth because.
I'm not going to go into the scientific zone that we're kind of getting low on time.
So helium three is a very interesting topic.
Look it up if you want to dive into it.
But on the moon, it's literally just kind of sit there.
We can Hoover that up, use it for nuclear fusion.
We have to finish the technology because, again, it's only theoretical on Earth.
So we have to get the technology made.
But in theory, it's much easier to achieve nuclear fusion with helium three
than it is with some of the other ways they're going about it.
So easy nuclear fusion makes people's pants tight and they chase after it.
Not the phrase I was expecting.
Yeah, you know. So outside of that, go ahead.
That that could be the pit stop.
Yeah. Of the solar system.
Like you go there, you refill your ship, you get your repairs done.
You know, you buy your ship, you have them be repaired.
Like you buy your ship, you have them be made, whatever.
It's we have all the resources there that could be our hub for, you know, centuries.
Yeah, it's the gas station, the 7-Eleven of the solar system.
Oh, my God. I won't go do what I was going to do.
But you've also got research potentials as well as tourism.
Who wouldn't want to go and hang out in space in orbit?
I mean, I know you don't like heights.
I get that. So we'll put we'll put a bag over your head.
Take you to the moon.
I'm not going to.
Yeah, it is.
We'll just give you the ILC. How about that? OK.
A vacation to the moon, you know, three day trip there
for five days on the moon, three day trip back.
A 10 day vacation package.
Yeah, I think a lot of people would do that if it was affordable enough.
In this economy. OK.
If it was affordable enough and it was proven to be safe enough
and the facilities were built up to accommodate it.
Yeah, I think a lot of people do that.
Well, especially depending on the economic incentives.
I feel like there's going to be a big push for people eventually once
the moon and or eventually Mars is colonized to where
you have all the basics that you need, but they just need people.
Uh huh. I wonder. This was just my case.
I wonder what the economic incentives are going to be people to move there.
Are they going to say like, hey, move your primary residency to Mars
and we'll give you this this and a house to live or something like this.
That'll be your property.
That will be your place as long as you work for this company.
And I wonder if it's going to bring back just like how we had in the 15
through like 17th century, even 18th century, where a lot of people like
they they lived on at the mines and they worked on the mines.
They had like the mine kind of like shop.
That you would buy food from in the mine owned your barracks or where you lived.
I guess I worry, but also I wonder if it's going to be something like that
where they say, hey, you know, you know, Elon Musk is going to provide all the food
for you and they're going to give you a place to live and they're going to do all this.
But once you get there, you're going to be stuck.
That's what I want. But invert that.
I wonder how many people are going to say, wow, I can get a new start there.
How many people on Earth that have, you know, maybe they have drug records
or something like that or criminal records.
They have nowhere else to go.
You know, I must say, hey, I can give you, you know, a 1200 square foot house
with some land, you know, and a job.
You just have to show up.
Yeah. So for some people, it would be a really good thing.
Yeah, absolutely.
So like the company town mentality, it was popular back back in the day.
You know, you you you leave Earth and you end up in Moskopol.
This and all of a sudden you have a brand new start.
You have a free house.
Well, you you're an indentured servant at that point, but you have a house.
You you get your food right down the street
and you just work off your debt.
Like, you know, it never goes away.
I don't think I thought we did away with indentured server to.
Maybe I'm wrong.
Nowadays, you never really know.
But I don't think you would really go that route.
Obviously, I'm just being a little hyperbolic, but
it is something that I wonder how many people will move there
for the fresh start and how humanity will change.
Where now you have families growing up on Mars,
you know, people conceiving children, things like that.
We're going to start seeing the first part of,
I guess, human evolution outside of Earth and how that's going to change.
Right. Basically, Gen two of humanity.
You could go with that.
You could go with that, you know.
Because we'll be essentially the evolved species, more or less at that point.
Well, yeah, I say that only in the term of we are no longer confined to Earth.
Yeah. Evolve for that environment, for Mars. Yeah.
So that's if for anybody that's watched the expanse, by the way,
highly recommend watching that.
I'm going to bring that up. OK, yes.
The expanse is awesome.
It's it's up there with the Martian.
And it covers some things that we're discussing here, obviously, in their own take.
But it's available on Amazon Prime.
Yes. Highly recommended by the great, great show.
So I guess I know there's something else we were discussing about currency
and trade with with Earth, things like how the stock market work,
how would investments work, how would communication work?
Because one of the problems we have is everything on Earth, at least, happens here.
So our communication, especially with the much of the Internet
and our satellite system, communication is relatively instant,
relatively on access, on tap at all times.
Investments can happen as soon as you want.
Communication can happen.
Money can be transferred.
If there is a separate Mars or even even the moon,
I guess we can get away with things being pretty instant relatively now.
But the moon's about a two second delay.
That's nothing to to the moon.
I think it's like one point eight light seconds to get there and then back.
So a roughly three to three and a half second delay.
Yes, or gaming would be difficult, but you could have a phone call.
You could do stuff on the Internet.
It's not that big of a deal.
But then the problem becomes Mars. Mars.
Yeah. So it's a 20 minute delay.
Yeah. Just to send the message.
So this what we're doing right now with like a podcast over the Internet.
It no happening. Not not phone call.
You got to be a very patient person.
Correct. So I guess the question becomes with economics,
with the economy the way it is, because everything is designed
to happen relatively quickly.
How would that change? Would that would Mars become a separate,
entirely separate economy or maybe loosely using our economic system?
How much of it really becomes so, I guess,
you say independent from intertwined. Right.
So I feel like it would be its own separate market,
similar to how we have the American market and the Asian market
and the European market.
Those all operate independently, yet intertwined with a little bit.
It would have its own ups and downs and reverberations.
But I think the tie in is probably going to be since it's Daddy Musk.
Look at Dogecoin, some kind of cryptocurrency.
It may not necessarily be Dogecoin, but I think a crypto
or a kind of digital currency that you don't have to worry about having
on hand on the moon or Mars necessarily is going to be the tie in
because it's something we already use here.
It's something that has an established value
that can be related to right away instantaneously.
And the transactions can be handled.
I am going to be pissed if the reason we go to Mars
is because of meme coin called Dogecoin, not because of NASA,
not because of any of our governments trying to do anything
because of a goddamn meme coin.
That does that not sum up the humanity ridiculousness?
Yeah, the ridiculousness of humanity being like so.
So imagine if an alien like interviews a human in the 50 years rather like.
So how do you guys discover interplanetary travel?
And they have to start the conversation with dog money.
Billionaire as a joke made up a meme coin.
They're like, what's a meme coin?
Oh, that's going to be a 30 minute conversation.
Oh, yeah. That's my God.
We are a weird species.
Yes, we are. We are weird. Yeah.
But I guess I didn't think about
with Elon Musk running like pushing for that.
That would be fine. They have to trade in Doge.
It might not be the US dollar.
It might not be any dollar. It might not be rubble or anything.
It would be literally in Dogecoin. Mm hmm.
That's hilarious, yet terrifying.
I mean, he's the one that's trying to set this all up.
That's kind of his his back pocket coin.
For all we know, it could be his prison wallet coin.
I don't know.
I just I just I cannot wait one day.
No, granted, I'm not going to be on this flight,
but one day someone going to Mars and saying
it always seems one of the banners go by sponsored by Dogecoin.
Like, I don't know. I just.
In collaboration with Tesla, I just mad.
Oh, gookie.
Think about the corporate advertising logos
that are going to be on that rocket.
Not only that, but so I know that like
because of the way Earth's like Mars is moving,
there's not ever going to be like one established route.
It's always going to be like somewhat changing
because of the orbits and everything.
Uh huh. But boy, leaving the earth,
they're going to have the same trajectory almost every time
because they're going to have the same spots where they're from.
Are they going to be putting billboards out in space
for this stuff?
Probably advertising the whole way over.
Probably. I hope so. Jesus.
I want to see a McDonald's billboard out in space.
Maybe they'll have space drive throughs.
That'd be amazing.
Yeah, it's all the air leaves.
Hey, can we stop by this space McDonald's space chicken nuggets?
And if there's always going to be those like like those religious space
billboards, Jesus,
just hell is real.
Anybody in Ohio knows that hell is real billboard.
Oh, but yes, but that's I need to see this for anybody.
That's that scene of the idiocracy.
Well, the guys, you know, everything sponsored by Carl's Jr.
or something like that.
I don't know. I just you by Carl's Jr. Exactly.
I just I just imagined where if this is done by Elon,
I know he has the money,
but it's not going to be him that I'm worried about as much as as more as
the other companies that are going to come along
where you're literally going to have this right.
A sponsor by Carl's Jr. or Costco. We love you.
Like it's going to be just such a weird thing.
Oh, God. As as you're boarding the ship to take off.
Welcome to Tesla. I love you.
That would freak me out, though.
Right. Oh, my God.
So I and you know that that kind of segues
into one of the last big issues that we can talk about here.
The long term mental and psychological challenges
of leaving your planet, leaving your home,
being cooped up in a ship.
Forget going to the moon. That's a three day trip.
That's not that bad. We can do that.
Six months in a vehicle
that's not a whole lot bigger than a bus.
That's about the amount of space you'd have.
It's going to have to be bigger than a bus, though.
Yeah. I mean, I think that's roughly how much space
the people will have like to themself.
Because I mean, obviously, there's some dimensions we have to look at,
like to really figure out what like the individual person, but
like what the individual space would be.
But that being said, that that's going to be a lot on a lot of people
realizing that like I know this is a meme, but there is no grass for you to touch.
There is no like right, like going out and getting some natural sunlight
or anything like that. Like, sure, there's going to be some sunlight,
but also it's going to be protected from radiation or the harmful things.
So I don't even know if I can guarantee they would be able to see
like sunlight or other certain things like you're you're you're stuck
in that metal tube with everybody. Right.
It's going to be your least favorite airplane ride.
Yeah. As of right now, the only dimensions
that I can pull up on Starship, it's 30 feet wide. That's it.
Yeah. Oh, 165 feet long.
God, so they better hope nobody eat chili the night before.
So you have the worst six month ride that smells going to linger.
Oh, man. Oh, or some dumb bastard goes to Taco Bell the night before.
Hey, guys, I got takeout with me. God damn it, Ron.
God, just there is no air filtration system
that's going to take out Taco Bell from that.
Let me tell you, there's nothing strong enough.
I'm just going to hear why is it spicy?
Just just why is it spicy?
Why does the air hurt my face?
The air burns.
I just I could not imagine.
How that would go.
Poorly, that's how it would go.
Unless you're like well adjusted, unless you're somebody I think
I would assume they'd be highly selective when they first do the program.
Yeah. So I I think like the first handfuls of people
are going to be probably current and or former military.
More specifically, don't hate probably the Navy guys, just because
Navy folk are used to the long deployments.
Yeah, if you start on a sub for a long period of time,
a sub or even a bigger ship, you're going out to sea
for upwards of six months. That's nothing.
Absolutely. Yeah.
I mean, if you can handle a sub for that long, you can probably handle,
you know, the six month journey to Mars.
Yeah, that's not a huge deal.
Right. So basically, at this point, then we're talking about
you're in the bus, you know, the bus of space.
The bus of space. Oh, God, that's only for us.
But then once you get there, you arrive, you get there, you descend, you land.
And now you're at a point where, OK, you built the basic buildings
already there, you build it, whatever you get, the basics of civilization going.
But there's also like still so many other issues that we still have to solve.
Yeah, you've you have to work out making objects
you've you have to work out making oxygen, making water and making food
once you're there, because obviously we can only bring so much.
We cannot breathe on Mars.
We cannot breathe on the moon.
We cannot grow anything in the soil of either as they sit.
Now, both have ice reserves that we can tap into
to make water on site, which is great.
We're going to have to use that water to process the soil.
The regolith on the moon is full of essentially jagged edges.
I highly encourage anyone to look at a picture of lunar dust under a microscope.
It looks terrifying.
Oh, it looks it's it's meteorite dust, impact dust.
It's it's it's busted rock and glass.
Oh, so so what is it like sharp like?
What's that? What's that?
That rock that the Aztecs used to use that like when it broke apart
was really sharp. Obsidian.
Is it like that kind of thing?
It's like obsidian dust kind of kind of.
Yeah.
And and something else.
Dust removal is going to be a huge thing.
Oh, I never thought of that.
Because, yeah, when you go out and work in the environments,
when you come back in, they're going to have to have probably multi chambers
of clothing and dust removal
before they get just into their everyday attire.
God, so walking in and out of your house.
Because you cannot breathe that stuff in.
That will slice your lungs and make it so you can't breathe.
You will suffocate if you breathe that stuff in.
And that is something that is incredibly difficult to be able to have it.
So any layperson can't screw that up. Right.
God, that's a pain in the butt.
Like, ain't nobody got time for that.
What do you mean? It's like a five minute process just to leave my house.
I got bronchitis.
Nobody got time for that.
I never thought about the the the dust.
Yeah, that never occurred to me ever.
Now, on Mars, it won't be quite as bad.
OK, because there are wind storms on Mars.
The dust will get rounded off more on Mars, but it's still going to be an issue.
So the good news is we have water.
The bad news is we're going to have to ship boatloads of fertilizer.
And other bio matter.
I mean, be able to grow crops.
As much as we hate the idea of there is the potato route.
Yeah, well, you just don't think about it.
Add some salt and ketchup.
You're fine. Well, I guess then maybe some crushed up like it.
I guess the problem becomes of like
you still have to bring enough food there to feed enough people for long enough.
Not just the journey.
Yeah, that's when they're there.
It's not just the journey.
You have to bring food for the journey plus time.
To establish food once they're there and you have to bring extra food.
You can't just be like, oh, yeah, it'll be six months.
I'll bring six months worth of food.
No, like you got to bring a lot of extra food.
Because if they have a crop failure, a system failure,
if they're doing hydroponics, if they have like a fluid blowout
and they lose all their their hydroponic fluid,
you have to plan for disasters that you can't even think about.
So you would have to basically pre ship.
Like millions of pounds of stuff, MREs.
Oh, I know. I know that's traumatizing for you.
But you would essentially or the the, you know, spacefaring equivalent.
You know, space MREs or SMRs, whatever, you know.
Space food.
But you would have to do that and you would have to deliver
millions of pounds of water.
So because I feel like you'd be further ahead.
Yeah. To ship a lot of really good filtration units.
Yes. But what if they fail?
You're still going to need water.
Well, obviously, you have some water, but it's hard to make a filter fail
if it's a passive filter.
Oh, yeah.
So it's also being sponsored by Britta is what I'm hearing.
Yeah, basically.
But that's just going to encourage us to grow
plants and whatnot in these environments
so that we can get resources to make filters.
So we're just going to have to have eventually just large
greenhouses, things like that.
So that's going to be the one of the basic industries.
We're the one of the main industries on the planet.
That's going to be one of the basic industries, one of the main industries on Mars.
But building greenhouses, you know, filtering out greenhouses
because that'll provide oxygen.
That's another big need.
We kind of need that.
You know, it's a necessity, more or less.
I like breathing. I think you like breathing.
So far, it's been pretty good.
Yeah, it's pretty.
Has it failed me so far?
Except when I can't laugh or when I'm laughing and can't breathe.
Well, that's more of a that's more human error.
That's usually that's just a human glitch.
You know, human body not understand that breathing is more important than laughing.
But, you know, we'll patch that up.
So so we've we've
we bring up a lot of interesting points.
There's all these things that humans require.
So I'm going to touch back to our previous episode for a second.
Is it worth it to send humans
or should we just send the robots in our place?
Oh, no, this didn't occur to me.
They don't require sleep, food or water or air.
Well, why not both?
Well, to some extent, yes, we can do both.
And not just as just not as many humans, you know, one human to 20 bots,
something like that, sure.
But.
Isn't the point to to keep humanity safe?
I mean, if we just do the bots, aren't we just letting them build their robot utopia?
Well, again, it's not it's not fully I.
But it would have to be at that point.
I mean, a 20 minute delay isn't that bad if you give it like orders.
Do I feel so?
No, it's not. It's not just a 20 minute delay.
It's a 40 minute plus.
Oh, yeah. 20 minutes, 20 minutes back. OK, yeah.
Yeah. You got to consider the round trip.
But even so, I mean, I'm not against
letting robots figure out the basic infrastructure.
That's fine.
But there does become a point of you have to have some human overreach,
some some. Oh, absolutely.
Somebody there got to got to have the overlords in place.
Oh, yeah. There's just no way.
But it wouldn't be a bad idea to have them do like the risky things
or even just like a simple assembly of habitable structures,
a symbol of greenhouses, things like that.
So at least some people can maneuver.
But I don't know.
I just I just get worried anytime I say, oh, yeah, just send a robot to do it.
I don't know. I get a little worried about that.
It's like, I don't know. I saw that. Yeah.
As we discussed the last episode, it's going to be a problem
if used effectively, sure.
But I know, man.
I really don't know.
I feel like there's enough people that are willing to go to the movies.
There's enough people that are willing to go that you won't.
We won't need to use AI for it.
Because, oh, the amount of people that I see say all the time,
say, get me off this rock.
Like, I know it's somewhat jokingly right.
But I do agree.
I think there are you give them the opportunity for real.
Will they take it like the amount of people that are in jail serving,
you know, sentences and other things like that,
that are going to be there for decades.
If we're willing to be like, hey, go give it a shot.
You could suddenly get millions of people willing to sign up overnight,
I'll go.
So what you want to make space, Australia?
Not that was not my intention.
It was not my intention.
I mean, it wasn't going to send the murderers.
I mean, you know, I don't I don't want them cooped up in a space tin can.
No, but why not?
This way. So what if you didn't pay the taxes to your like to the IRS?
Like, that's not a, you know, if you want to go start off on Mars, I don't care.
There's no there's no tax to be paid on Mars anyway.
So you don't have to worry about much yet.
No, that that would suck.
I wouldn't pay taxes to Tesla.
They just take the Doge coin just directly out of your wallet.
Just know. Right.
But no, I'm not trying to make space Australia.
That's not the goal.
But I do feel like there's a lot of people.
That would sign into it.
So I don't know. Oh, yeah.
Oh, I wonder if banishment from Earth could become a new punishment.
Would it be? Well, oh, I do.
God, it's no longer life in prison.
It's banishment from Earth.
You're not allowed to come back to your planet.
Yeah, we don't want you to get the fuck out like that.
But then then the problem becomes a little bit more of a problem
in a place where like if all you do is take a knife and rip open your hab,
you basically die within a few hours or a few minutes.
Right. Like that there becomes.
But you know what? I mean, hey, space jail could be a thing, too.
Well, just put them on the moon.
Yeah. The ultimate timeout is what I'm hearing.
Just. Right.
Hey, they if they start screwing with or if they start screwing up.
Maybe they just missed count.
I mean, we've seen TV shows and movies that people get spaced, you know, tossed out.
I'm not advocating for this, by the way.
Maybe just to throw that out there.
I'm advocating for this in certain measures, certain circumstances,
especially for those people that like other people that aren't.
The right age for being the people that they like.
I will let you and the politicians have a crack at that one.
I will save my skin on this one.
My personal opinions will remain my own on this one.
I have not.
Gims on this podcast has not formally taken a stand
and for legal reasons will not be taking a stand.
Please don't come after me. I like my family.
Thank you. That's my.
But no, I understand what you're saying.
If anything, at that point, just like why not give people the same
at that point, just like why not give people the option on like a serious note?
Like if a judge gave you a sentence for like, you know, your crimes or whatever.
Why not have the option of, you know, 10 years prison here
or three years labor on the moon?
Most people would be like, I could just do labor on the moon.
Sure. Like, why not? Right.
It's not going to be heavy labor because there's less gravity.
A 5000 pound rock on Earth is going to weigh like.
80 pounds on the moon. Hmm.
Hang on, let me.
I'm curious about the math on that one, only because
boy, the shenanigans people get up to five, five thousand pounds on Earth
would weigh about eight hundred thirty three pounds on the moon.
So I OK. So still people could move a ton or two.
Right. And hey, I'd weigh less than 50 pounds on the moon.
Yeah, I'm kidding.
But it's something to consider where
we might reach a point where.
I hate to say it, but somebody's jail sentence
might be to go build infrastructure on the moon, Mars, space station,
things like, yeah.
I mean, not necessarily even important infrastructure, just general labor.
Oh, yeah. Just building habitable structures, just, you know,
those like geodesic dome kind of things that give us some space.
Yeah, I would not trust them and maybe even give them the option.
You know, hey, you've rehabilitated your or you've done your sentence.
You've rehabilitated. You have the option to stay here now.
Yeah. For something like Mars or the moon, like if we have hab structures there,
you know, just say you've been good as long as you behave
and follow the rules, right? You know, do it there.
You know, true rehabilitation.
Yeah, it could be possible.
Or we're just finding that the nicest way to make it is Australia.
Right. I mean, it beats having the big guy sit on your face.
Idiocracy reference.
Oh, such a classic movie.
That's so good. Yes.
Should be required watching in high school.
Yeah. Unfortunately, it's becoming a documentary.
It's becoming kind of depressing.
That's the I know it's sad.
That's the big issue.
Man. So, I mean, I guess.
Do you have any other further questions?
I guess. Do you have any other further points for for us going to Mars
and going to the moon?
Because I honestly, I'm I'm kind of excited for it.
I want to see what we as humans can accomplish.
I know that we're kind of fucked up.
But I think that when we come together, we can do great things.
I'm going to take the pessimist point of view on this one.
And I'll be honest with you, if it's taken us this long
to be able to get rockets to be able to safely land again,
we still have to figure out a lot of different propulsion systems.
We still can't figure out a lot of basic things.
I think to say it happens in the next 20 or 30 years is very optimistic.
Unless we have an energy revolution that.
Unfortunately, we have not gotten was that nuclear is it
fission that's the one that we're working on or fusion?
I always get them fuse fusion.
So vision, we've that's what we've had.
Until we get something like nuclear fusion, where basically we have
a much larger supply of available energy at a very little cost.
I do not think this is something that's going to happen
in the next 10 or 20 years, even 30 years.
To be honest, I think unfortunately, a long past our time
by the time they start doing anything with the moon or Mars.
And also, I hate to say it, I feel like governments are going to clamp down
on immediately because they're going to see it as a form of income.
They're going to be like, oh, yeah, but we could control this.
And I think, unfortunately, the U.S.
military and other militaries are going to say, hey, if you have a base
on the moon and we don't, that's bad for security.
And they're just going to gobble that up.
I hate to say like eventually I agree, maybe in like 50 to 100 years time.
I think the first people there that are like, yep, that is now military
property for security reasons.
Right.
There are currently treaties in place, whether they hold or not, I don't know.
There are treaties in place to defend against the militarization of space
and space property like the moon. Yeah.
But I don't think they're going to.
I'll be honest with you.
I think it's going to be it's going to be the new spy wars.
I bet you is what that's going to be like the 80s during the Cold War,
where there are all these different spy things happening and whatnot.
It's going to be it's going to be the same.
You're probably not wrong, but you're going to have inexplicable things like,
oh, this the shuttle somehow exploded.
No, this space station had decompression all of a sudden.
All of a sudden, they're going to have all these weird technological
or weird issues that no one's going to be able to address.
All of a sudden, things just happen and you're just not going to hear about it.
And somehow the company.
So I'm going to use Tesla's example.
They're somewhat just going to say, oh, yeah, you know, we had it.
We had an engineering fault or nothing else.
And it's just going to fall under the radar.
Just nothing's going to be said about it.
So here's the little point that I can make on that.
You can only have so many of those before.
It creates the the the final issue.
If those issues happen in orbit of Earth,
if we have too many of them, we will have too big of a debris field
to actually be able to leave the Earth.
Slight problem.
But just a little bit.
Yeah, I know we already even have the issue with just so many satellites we have.
Uh huh.
It's it's crowded up there.
Space junk removal could be a business opportunity.
And then you're going to get a space tow, get your space truck out of there.
Oh, my God. Bulldozer.
Also, space piracy could become something that is a topic that I even think of.
Oh, my God. All it takes is it's one of those buses to go rogue.
Somebody brings a couple of guns and all of a sudden they own the space
highway up there. Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, weapons.
In space work a lot differently. So that's that could be a whole different topic
for a whole new Tony physics.
But space piracy and the physics of space combat.
Again, please watch the expanse, please.
If for anyone, for anyone that's still here, that's still listening to this.
If you like all of this stuff, just go watch the expanse, please.
It is really good.
But yeah, if you are the one guy up there in space with a gun, you own it.
That is now your space.
With a gun, you own it. That is now your property.
Congratulations. You bought it.
You bought a bus. Basically, you didn't pay anything for it, but you bought it.
You know.
But I don't know. I'm curious to see where this goes.
And I hope I generally though, I do hope a lot of this stuff happens
in our lifetime and we get to at least see it and be a part of it.
Yeah. But.
You know, there's there's one last quick topic that I can kind of say.
If we don't send humans, we can send robots that are still humans.
Cyborgs.
Well, we send robots that can take the download of the human consciousness.
Oh, God, that's a whole. Oh, God.
That I mentioned in the last episode that I wanted to do an episode
on the digital afterlife.
Yes.
I'm still going to tease that one because that's going to be a good one.
That's hopefully our next episode will be that.
But that's a possible implication.
If you download a human consciousness into a robot body.
Because you can just send the consciousness.
Yeah, but see, that's a digital stream.
I hate that you bring it up because I have many, many thoughts about that.
And that's something I'm actually really into.
So I make note.
I'm just going to say, I hope we don't.
That's I'll be too. Let's do the not that please not that.
But also I kind of hope we do.
You hope somebody else does it so you can watch.
Yes, but I also would like to do that as well.
What?
I want to live a long time.
OK, then this we've decided next episode now because that we're going to have
the biggest argument on that.
We're doing it. That's going to be a two hour episode.
Yeah, that's going to be that's going to be a two hour episode.
Yeah, that's going to be that's going to be yelling at you for half the episode.
I really.
Yeah, no, no, no, no.
No way. Yes.
But anyways, so all right.
So anything else more on this topic, though, that you wanted to bring up?
No, I mean, pretty well, I I personally hope that we become a
species that is not confined to Earth or too fragile.
Staying on one planet, one major disaster, one big nuclear war
and humanity is gone.
If if the human race to survive itself,
I think we have to leave Earth and expand out.
That I can definitely agree with you on.
Yeah, that that I can agree.
It's just a how and when you know, how and why, you know,
that's up for debate because I actually I think at some point
I want to do a different discussion down the road of a different avenue
that we can take with that topic.
But that'll be a little bit later because I have some research
I want to do with that one.
I have some actual facts and data that I want to back my position up with.
OK, great.
But yeah, besides that, I think we are.
In agreement, I think we are all set with this episode
talking about the moon and Mars, Elon Musk's fever dream or humanity's future homes.
So I want to say thank you all for being here.
So thank you all for listening.
We really appreciate all the constructive criticism
and really any and all feedback.
Just so you all know, we are working on getting social media platforms up.
We technically do have the YouTube up, but I don't think we've posted there yet.
Just these episodes.
Oh, just these. Yeah, exactly.
Eventually, I'll be adding some more stuff and we'll be getting some more things.
Still work on more music for like intro and outro and whatnot,
because what we're using right now is the, I guess, the first variation
of the first edit of it.
But feel free also to send like any ideas you have,
because I write and do all the music, I do everything.
So I'm willing to take suggestions.
If you're like, oh, this would sound cool.
Throw it my way. I'll do whatever.
And I am working currently.
I was working on it last week, but I got busy working on the new discord
that we have a specific discord space for this podcast.
That way, it's easier for you all to interact with us,
you know, make questions, comments, concerns,
and also that we can interact with us directly at some point.
Anything else you'd like to add there?
No. Well,
on the discord, we do hope to at some point include
people in a interactive session
further down the line.
It's it's going to take some finagling to get it all to work.
But we would like to have some kind of a situation
where we can interact with people.
Possibly in a.
Actual episode.
It might just be a second episode for that week.
I don't know. It might just be us shooting the shit for half hour,
45 minutes. I don't know.
Yeah, that's all going to get worked out.
Yeah, we'll figure out a way to do live calls and figure out a way
of doing discussions with people doing meetups, you know, like on the discord.
And there's a few other things as well.
I do want to say for any listeners out there,
definitely feel free on the discord.
There will be a channel for it.
If you have any favorite clips or comments or things that are funny,
you know, feel free to let us know in there.
And I actually do want to have a courtroom in there,
just like we have on our private discord.
I want to have a courtroom here because I hope that never sees.
Oh, I know. Well, our private discord that we have, that courtroom
could never see the light of day.
But the one for the podcast, I'm totally fine with.
That's fine. But any any funny moments, you know, anything like that post in there.
We'll be making those links public in the next coming weeks
with the holidays and everything we've all been super busy.
Hopefully we get to that shortly.
So I just want to say thank you all for being here.
Seriously, thank you all for listening.
And we will catch you on the next episode.