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Hey, everybody. Welcome to the show. This week, I talked to Lacey J. Fott of Sprye,

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Social Media Consulting. And I really think it's the best conversation, one of the best

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conversations I've had so far on the show. Incredibly interesting, we talked about the

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social media landscape here in Vancouver specifically. We talked about what small businesses need

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to do on social media to be successful and what sometimes they do that isn't really working.

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And because Lacey's so passionate about disinformation on social media, she gave us a really convenient

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three-step way that we can combat misinformation on social media. So like I said, I really

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think it's one of the best conversations we've had on the show and I hope you enjoy it.

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Hey, everybody. Hello and welcome to the Spotlight Vancouver podcast. I'm your host, Doug Varenes,

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Jason's real estate agent in Washington and Oregon. And today on the show, I'm back with

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a guest and not just any guest, a lovely guest, Lacey Fott, aka Lacey J. She is the founder

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and CEO of Sprye Social Media Management and Consulting. She's also the co-author of the

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book Down the Rabbit Hole, Slowing the Spread of Misinformation and Propaganda on Social

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Media. And she's also been involved in negotiating Nittie's piece recently. No, I just...

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She has not.

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That last part, you've done so much. That last part was not true, but the book and the company

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is true and it's a lot. And I want to congratulate you on your success and being a CEO and a

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badass boss because especially in a city the size of Vancouver and kind of being a smaller city,

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I just think... I just admire anyone who can start a business and have it be successful and

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having kind of done that myself and still going through that process. I think that's fantastic

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and I just... I want to congratulate you on your success.

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Thank you. Now, listen, I might not be a peace negotiator, but I do do some other hard things.

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One interesting fact you might not know about me is I dance for the Portland Winterhawks

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ice hockey team too. There's a dance team called the Rosebuds Dance Team and we dance on ice at

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the home games. So, I mean, that's not a peace negotiation, but it's pretty hard to dance on

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ice. I'll tell you that. You know what? It's hard to be violent or have those kind of tendencies

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when you're dancing, I find. So, I think maybe it is kind of a peace negotiation. I saw that on

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your social media. I saw you dancing and that's great too. That's cool. Yeah, it's fun. I've been

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a lifelong dancer, danced all the way through college at Washington State University where I

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went to school and got my degree in broadcast news and political science as a Crimson Girl at

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Washington State University. So, took like eight years off when I had kids and then came back to

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do something that I love. That kind of can keep me focused in my work if there's something that

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I'm really passionate about that I'm doing on the side as well. Yeah, and we were talking a little

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bit about that before we started recording that you were a broadcast major and I mean, it makes

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sense that it sort of led you to this point in time where you founded this company that does

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social media management and consulting. So, are you from Vancouver? You're from the Washington

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area originally? Yeah, I grew up in Battleground, Washington. Oh, okay. So, super local. And then,

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I also was wondering if you were a digital native as they say because I'm kind of, you know, I'm

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like Gen X. Nobody talks about Gen X anymore, but I grew up without internet. Ooh, that's crazy. And

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so, I was wondering if you, you know, grew up in immersed in sort of being online and having

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social media be part of your life. Well, I'm an elder millennial. Okay, so I still had to write

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my papers in high school using Encarta encyclopedia, you know, like the disk that you would put into

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the desktop computer that the family shared in the kitchen area. But then, you know, as I'm in

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high school, we're getting AOL and I was on Instant Messenger with my friends and social media really

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rolled out while I was in college. So, I was at WSU from 2006 to 2010. And I'll tell you what, I got

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very good at social media stalking. Like, you meet one person and you know only their first name and

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I could find my way to getting connected to them. And those skills have just continued to flourish

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as I've used them in my career too. Yeah, that relationship status, man. I was all over that.

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Like, that was a genius move. I'm like, oh, I got to go back and find out. You know, this is kind

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of towards the end of college. But yeah, it was, it's a, it was a different ballgame, you know?

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So, I've seen it, I've seen it go from nothing to like, you know, kind of required for people,

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especially businesses. And when I was in college getting my broadcast news degree, there was no,

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there was no education on social media at that time because it wasn't something that was used

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for business marketing at all at that time. So, what I found really interesting is what we were

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really doing in broadcast news was figuring out how to take something big and complicated that

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people care about and package it down into something small, succinct that can get a message

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across quickly. And that's really exactly what we're doing in social media with all of the businesses

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and organizations that we're working with is we're learning all about their brand personalities,

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their business objectives, their target audiences. And we're breaking that down into, you know,

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two to five sentence posts that have to move people towards action. And it's worked out very

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well. So, and as we've continued having more video content and podcast style content, I've been able

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to apply everything that I learned into my career, which I'm very grateful for.

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Yeah, not a lot of people can do that. Like I'm a geography major and I'm not even good at

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like following a map. Oh, it's fun. I like to travel and, but it didn't really work out as far

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as a career because it went towards like computers. Actually, it's a really good career now because

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if you get into like computer mapping, obviously, it's everywhere. But I was one of the last classes

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that did pen and ink map making. So, wow. Exactly. You're telling me. You're a cartographer.

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He's an ancient cartographer. I rolled out a scroll in my pen and ink quill and wrote it down.

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Yeah, and I wrote a dinosaur to school too. So, were you always, I know, it was adorable. It was

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a little cute, one of the little cute ones. Were you, did you, majoring in that, were you more

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on the social media side? Was that your interest or was it more broadcast like being in front of a

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camera or a microphone kind of like a talking head, you know, kind of way or was it more social

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media? I thought that I was going to go into sports journalism and be a face of broadcast news.

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So, that was my overall goal. I had my internship at Fox Sports Northwest and was able to go to

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the Mariners Games and interview Felix Hernandez and Ken Griffey Jr. I mean, it was, that was

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super cool and I really enjoyed that. That is cool. It was fun and there's a part of me that,

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that wonders what my career could have been like going that path, but I just didn't even end up

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looking for work in that once I got my degree. I just wasn't sure that the lifestyle was going

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to be what I wanted and so I started looking for jobs in marketing with my communications degree

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and the first job that I ended up getting was in digital marketing, doing website development and

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SEO and I worked there for eight months and that company kind of fell apart a bit, but I learned

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so much and built such good relationships with some of the clients that I started my business

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immediately after that eight months of working with that company and that's all I've done for the

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rest of my career. So, this is my 14th year of having my business and started with,

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Oh wow.

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Yes, so started with website development and SEO, but as social media became something that was

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used for businesses, I started from the very beginning that it was even an option to use for

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businesses and started selling that service and then got rid of all the other ones as the business

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evolved. Yeah, because 14 years is it's like me and my dinosaur. That's true.

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That's like my space. I guess I was still Facebook, but I mean, you saw a lot of websites come and go,

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a lot of companies come and go and I think that's interesting that you were on the back end first,

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like the SEO marketing stuff because now you're more on the front end, but having that experience,

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I imagine is like super, super valuable to have that just know about that back end stuff, that

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powers social media campaigns and

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You'd be surprised how

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Why the scene?

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You'd be surprised how much the website and social media technical back end play into each other,

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you know, to be able to get more specific audiences, you have to install a pixel on a website to

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start gathering IP information for the people who are visiting your website and what you can do with

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that. And so being able to have that lexicon and that understanding of how and why things work on

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websites has translated very well into being able to run successful social media campaigns.

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Yeah, that's such an advantage and I'm not sure, you know, I don't think a lot of people have that

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because they might be good at the sort of showy upfront stuff and making a catchy campaign, but

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they don't know the technology that goes behind it and sort of how you can tweak the metrics to

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have an increased chance of getting it seen.

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Yeah, like a holistic view of the whole ecosystem.

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Yeah, and 14 years, I did not know you had been in business that long. Shame on me.

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14 years and a...

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Most people look at me and would not think that that's true, you know what I mean? Most of the time

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when I say that number, people's jaws kind of drop as a, you know, a younger woman, I'm like 36.

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And so I started this business when I was 22. And so anytime that I dropped that 14 year number,

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people are just kind of shocked, which to me feels great. That's like a little bit of an ego

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boost to me every time. I'm like, yeah.

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Taking as a compliment, I just think being in business for 14 years and then at 22,

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what was that like starting your own business at such a young age? I mean, 22, I was pretty

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clueless. I was, you know, I took care of myself, but I wasn't starting a business. So I'm curious

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on what that process was like for you. You know, it was really hard. I would, I'm glad I did it,

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and I would do it again 100 times because of the freedom that I've been able to have as an

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entrepreneur. But it was really hard. I was having babies at that time too. So I got married when

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I was 21 and I had my first baby at 23, my next at 25. And I was on my own for my business for my

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first six years too. So when I was in labor with my first baby, I'm on sales calls, you know,

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I'm like swaying back and forth through a contraction and I'm talking to one of my partners

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and he's like, what do you think about this? I'm like, okay, I can, I think it could probably be

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in this range. I can put an estimate together next week for you. You know, I behaved in a way that

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I would, I would never let my employees do that now. You know what I mean? Like my employees who

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have had babies working for me, you know, they're off at least, you know, two weeks before their

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delivery and they've got six weeks after. And I didn't take a day off, you know, and I'm not

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proud of that. I'm not proud of it. I that's a regret that I have is the way that I treated

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myself as a resource within my business in the early days when it was just me. But I can't go

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back and change it. So I just move forward and I try to treat my employees now with the level

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of care that I wish that I would have treated myself with at that time. Yeah, that's something

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that I, because you really were doing it all there. And I think sometimes we like to celebrate the

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hustle culture, but there's, there's a price to be paid for owning your own business and being the

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boss. So I like the freedom and, but there's also, yeah, you know, I'm sure there's a lot of business

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owners have regrets about things they miss because they were really, they're working on building that

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business. What? I mean, being in business that long, how has the social media landscape changed

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in your, in your estimation? What like what's going on? I know it's a lot of time to buffer, but

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it's had such an evolution. You know what I mean? When we're talking about the first few years,

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it was kind of this really untapped resource where you could just, as long as you were there and you

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were doing something, you would get some organic reach, you'd start to build community and you

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didn't even have to be that creative or fun. You just had to be there. It's like, I don't know,

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I don't have a good, a good, but as it continued to evolve and as each platform becomes more saturated,

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then your strategies have to change. You can't rely on organic anymore. You have to start getting

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more adept at advertising, which is a whole different set of skills than creating good

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organic social media content. So we go from being really good at creating consistent content to being

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very creative with content to being adept at advertising. And then above and beyond everything

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else is this like flexibility that you have to have in social media because everything is constantly

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changing. So you really never master anything. You just learn and adapt and learn and adapt.

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And the biggest thing that has mattered through the entire time is consistency and presence. That's

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probably the one thing that has not changed is being consistent and being present. The type of

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content you create has changed. The skills you need to do advertising has changed. But above

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and beyond anything else is just the importance of consistency and presence. And probably if we

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were going a little bit more detailed, like intentional presence, especially as small businesses,

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we can't be everywhere all the time. So we have to identify this perfect conjunction between the

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social media channels that we are most adept at being on, right? Whether that means somebody is

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good at being on camera or they're happy to be in photos or they're good writers and they have

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good content that can translate to writing. So which platform they're most suited for,

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multiplied by what platform their target audience is actually spending time on.

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And that's where that intentional presence comes in. Is that factor between where you're good at

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showing up and where your audience cares to be already. And that's a constant.

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Yeah. It's interesting that you mentioned the advertising because I mean, I'm still in my social

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media presence, I still relying on organic and like it's been kind of hit or miss. So it's

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interesting that you've mentioned like it's moved towards a more advertising centric model.

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Yeah. It's just so much for a business. Right. And it's such a science now that I can see businesses

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and even myself in my social media, like a lot of people will just are making content, but

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you know, maybe it's unfocused. They're kind of just like throwing stuff up, but it's not as

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intentional as they'd like. And I see that a lot in real estate and as well as other industries.

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But I think that's really interesting your viewpoint on just how it's gone to that

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advertising model. Because I don't run a lot of social media ads because I'm like, I can get,

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you know, I'm trying to get organic because it's free, but you know, maybe that's not the strategy.

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So yeah, it's constantly changing. Well, there's like in order of least to greatest

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ability to get organic reach on Facebook, you will get nowhere without ads. Zero. You will get

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nowhere. You know, your reach will be such a small percentage that on Facebook, if you're not doing

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some sort of ads, it's almost a waste. Next I would put is Instagram. Instagram,

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there is still some room to get organic, especially if you're willing to do some hard work of what

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we would call presence management, where you're, you know, looking for other places where your

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target audience is and you're engaging with them there. And that's drawing them over to your profile

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without you having to pay for them. And then TikTok, TikTok, you know, who knows with that

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platform right now, but. Oh, we dodged a bullet on that one. That's a TikTok's back, baby.

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Well, you can't download it still. It's just on your phone. If you have already downloaded it,

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it's still there, but you can't download it. I've already got it. I didn't, it's in like a moratorium.

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It's in, it's in the app jail or something. Yes, you got it. And then the one that is,

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the platform that is the most fertile ground for organic reach right now is LinkedIn.

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And on LinkedIn, that's where if you have zero ad budget, that's your place, because you can still

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make a really good amount of impact on LinkedIn with no ad budget.

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I've heard Gary V talking about LinkedIn and, and live shopping recently. It's been,

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man, you know, I gotta love Gary V. I don't know. Sure you do. Why not?

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I mean, why not? I take him or take him or leave him, but you know, I, I was like, LinkedIn, okay.

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Is the social media landscape different in this area? Like, does the Northwest have

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a specific vibe that works better for businesses? Or is there something that businesses need to

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keep in mind that's region specific when it comes to social media? I know social media goes out

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everywhere, but you know, for local businesses, they're looking to attract an audience that's

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local. Have you seen any difference between what's working in like, or Manhattan or a bigger

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market or something? And then kind of, is there any reason specific things business owners need

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to know about social media? That's such a good question. I've never gotten that question before,

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but I love it. What I would say is people have to always remember that social media is not just

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like its own ecosystem all on its own. It's a part of the community that it represents. Okay.

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So if you think about social media just as like a digital room where things take place,

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just like this conference room that I'm sitting in, you know, then what you think about is whatever

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is happening in your community here, it is reflected on social media. So communities that are smaller,

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more tight knit, more connected through associations, networking groups, clubs, schools, Facebook,

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city or county pages, you know what I mean? Like those kind of intertwined personal connections

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that happen in real life are reflected in social media behavior as well. So for an example,

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we do have a lot of like community based business groups in Clark County. There's tons of them,

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and they are things that people have used for decades to grow their business. And when you get

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on to social media, if you can take those in-person things that you're doing and amplify them using

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social media, that's something that will work here that probably wouldn't work as well in Portland

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or in Tigard because they don't have the same type of community and network that we've built in Southwest

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Washington. That's why one of the things that I think is so the lowest hanging fruit for business

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people is just to take advantage of whatever in-person things that you're doing and show that on social

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media too. When you're at a nonprofit fundraiser dinner, you're taking a picture with people and

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then you're tagging those people on social media. It's like, you know, it's the most easy thing to

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really be able to do and most people know that they should do it, but they're just not exactly

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sure how to implement it and they don't want to look stupid and like asking someone to take a picture

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with them is kind of vulnerable sometimes or something. But those are the things that really

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make a huge difference with social media, especially in our region. So you're sort of

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amplifying your involvement in local events in the community and showing that you're a part of it.

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You're active and you're participating and you're not just kind of blasting out stuff that's, yeah.

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And most... Well, that makes a lot of sense for... It makes a lot of sense for... Sorry, go ahead.

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Most business owners who have been in business for a while understand that concept in real life.

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You know, they have been a part of these organizations for a long time because of the

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way that it has improved their business and kept a steady stream of leads coming to them over time.

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So if we can just get across to people that the exact same process is happening digitally,

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if you use it, that's when a light switch can turn on for business owners and they see it as not so

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much of a complicated algorithm and more like an extension of what they're doing within their

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community already. Right. And it takes the burden off them having to create content rather than just

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sort of reflecting what they're already doing, which I find to be super refreshing because it's

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just more... I'm just showing what I'm doing rather than artificially creating something that I want

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you to watch. Yes. And I think for... I think people value that maybe more in the Pacific

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Northwest. I think of people like... They're always talking about community and giving back and...

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I mean, it's not just here, but I feel like that's a big part of the Northwest culture is community.

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And so that makes a lot of sense just to reflect you're already involved in the community.

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And then the science behind... I mean, there is science behind it too, because when you take

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that picture with somebody and then you go on to LinkedIn and you tag the other people and you tag

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the organization that put it on, especially on LinkedIn, anytime you tag them, it's going to

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increase that overarching reach. And then if that person engages, all of a sudden all of those people's

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connections are going to get that piece of content in their feed too. So it ends up yielding a huge

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amount more organic reach than if you were just creating a post that was selling your services

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because it's amplifying this network that already exists for you. So it's easy and it makes sense.

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And also it just yields a much higher return. I think it feels better for everybody too,

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because I have struggled personally with authenticity. That's like I'm a buzzword now. I want to get

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out there and I want to get my services out in the community, but how do I do that in a way

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that's true to me and doesn't feel like I'm in a performance or something? So I think that's a

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great insight because the consumer is super savvy now. They can see through your spiel about,

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you know, in your highly edited stuff on social media. I feel like it's just a more authentic

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way to reach people. So I think it's a great insight. Or your chat TPP captioned. Oh yeah.

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Yeah. I can't say I haven't used. I know. It's such a, I can't say I haven't used AI to create

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a title to something, but that's fine. That's good. It's a balance. I think you got to go back

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and edit it. You can't just turn out the stuff and just feel like people aren't going to be able

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to pick up on that. So we talked about it a little bit, but the strategy for small businesses here,

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like if I'm a small business and I want to get started in social media, but I have no clue where

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to start, what would be the first thing I could do? Because I don't think it's an option anymore.

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Social media, I mean, I feel like as a business you have to do it. Yeah, I think so too.

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So step one is figuring out and just really identifying who your target audience is.

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That target audience understanding will allow you to pick which platform you should spend your

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time on. Because if you're just starting, you don't have time to throw spaghetti noodles everywhere.

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You got to throw one noodle in one mouth and make the, you got to make the basket.

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Oh, you're going, oh, you can, you combine so many things. Just let it go. Like sports metaphor

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with food. Oh yeah, that's in there. Okay, so that's the most important thing. It's a lot of times

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it's broken down based on age, simply age. And then a lot of time it's also broken down based on what

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your hopeful call to action is. Okay, so if we've got, if your target customers are over 50,

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you're just going to go on Facebook. That's your best option. If your target customers are between

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20 and 40, Instagram is going to be a great place for you. TikTok could also be a great place for

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you. If any of your work is business to business, LinkedIn is going to be a good platform for you.

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Sometimes I get even more granular. Sometimes people don't necessarily think about YouTube

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as a platform too. I was just going to ask about YouTube. We haven't, we haven't talked about YouTube

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very much. We also work with like a lot of our clients, our industrial clients. Surprisingly,

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we've got a lot of welders and fabricators and erectors. It's an interesting industry because

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they have really cool projects to showcase. You don't sell a bridge, you know what I mean,

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but you've got to connect with the right people in your industry. And by showing off your projects

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and capacity, you can do that. But the people who are your target audience aren't scrolling Instagram

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looking for some sort of business opportunity, but they may very well be spending time on YouTube,

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researching or learning something and having your YouTube short or a little ad in YouTube is going

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to speak way better to this more male in 35 to 50 range who's going to be on YouTube and is not

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going to be scrolling Instagram reels. So-

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I would stop if I saw some welding though.

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See, that's what I'm telling you.

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I would stop the scroll for, I'm interested. I think it's cool. If people have welding videos,

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I'd be all about it. I would stop because you don't see that very often.

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Yes. So then you have to think about what kind of behavior you want to get out of your target audience.

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Are you trying to connect with them so that you can increase your network? Are you trying to drive

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traffic to your website? Are you trying to get more followers and build a greater community?

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Each platform is a little bit better at any of those goals. And so we have to figure out that on

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top of it. So that's the two things that you're really looking at when you're trying to pick a

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platform. And then I like to recommend a minimum viable product for social media is having your

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profile set up properly. You have a nice profile photo. You've got a clear bio. You've got a clear

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link to your website. And then minimum viable product, if you're posting twice a month on there,

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that's fine. You know what I mean? It's something to do and get done. And it means that when somebody

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searches you up, they're going to see that you exist. They're going to see that you're posting

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fairly consistently. And you've got some social proof there. Okay. If you're just trying to do

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the minimum possible to get yourself on social media so that when people look you up, they don't

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think that you're like permanently closed because you don't exist on social media, you can get away

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with two posts a month and be fine. Yeah, there would be that consistency point that you mentioned.

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Consistency doesn't mean necessarily every day. It just means consistency at whatever

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pace that you're able to. And I liked in the beginning when you mentioned having a clear

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value proposition. I find that's the thing. If you can't explain what you do in a sentence,

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it's going to get really confusing for people. And I've seen this happen a lot where I'm just like,

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I don't know. You see it in websites, but I also see it on social media. I'm not sure.

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Sure. What's the deal? What are you doing? What's the business? So I appreciated that point too.

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But yes, it sounds like you need to get the foundation started. You can't build the house

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without the foundation, right? With the spaghetti. You can't throw your spaghetti. Shut up. Shut up

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about the spaghetti. Open your mouth and build the foundation is what I would also say. One time,

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I have a client actually who's in the office behind me here. She does HR. Shout out to Gorge HR.

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She's been my HR for God six years, 10 years, maybe. And we did a photo shoot with her once

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where we had spaghetti noodles. And I pre-cooked these spaghetti noodles. I tested whether them warm

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or cold would stick better to a window. And we've got this photo shoot of her throwing

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spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks. And that was one of my favorite shoots ever.

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Nice. Well, you have kids too. So you probably knew that already. You know exactly that it sticks.

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It needs to be a little bit cool before it sticks. You know, I have kids too. I have a little bit

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of a temper sometimes. So it might be me throwing the noodles at a time or two. Oh, look out everybody.

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But my therapist helps me. My therapist helps me. I'm learning all the grounding techniques.

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We're all learning. I'm taking deep breaths. I'm... That's another show. Yeah. I actually...

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I got to have my therapist slash coach on. She's a little camera shy. But I want to get into your book

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because it's interesting because you work on helping businesses scale and create social media

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plans. But you also give back to the community and one of the... Well, you give back by providing a

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valuable service. But part of that is, you know, you wrote this book called Down the Rabbit Hole.

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You co-wrote it. Slowing the spread of misinformation and propaganda on social media. So...

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Which is a big topic because I want to get your take on how you would frame that because I feel

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like that's... It's such a... It's such a minefield. Yeah. I was hoping that we would get here next.

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You talked about the... I don't know, impressiveness of having a business with the longevity of,

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you know, 14 years. And I will say, I think the only way that I've really been able to

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accomplish this long in business is by ensuring that my business always has a soul. Like, there

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is a soul that is beyond the service in spry. And we have called that social media for good.

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Okay. So over the last... This book is one part of that. And that's... This was our big project last

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year. But even prior to writing this book, starting in like 2016, we started this social media for

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good concept. And the first iteration of this was us going into elementary schools and we

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did assembly presentations. We would send out a form ahead of time, like a survey. And all the

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students would take this survey and they would give us information like how long they're spending

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on social media, what type of social media they're using, how much oversight they're getting from

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their parents, what they would tell their parents about their social media use and their cell phone

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use if they could. So we've been gathering data about this for getting close to 10 years. And that

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was the very beginning of this. I started looking at social media and seeing how addictive it was

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and thought like how can we be a positive force for good so that this platform and this type of

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media remains relevant. Because if it continues to spiral towards addictive, divisive behavior,

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then it's going to collapse and it won't even be useful anymore. So it was really from that point

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that I made sure that SPRI was always a digital literacy advocate. Wanted people to know how

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it works, why it works, why it's addictive, what they can do to change their behavior so that it

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becomes a positive for them so that social media is always a force for good for people and not

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something that's negative. Go ahead. Yeah, because social media is a technology and there's certain

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design aspects that are made to keep you on it. But like anything else, it's sort of like it can

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be good. It can be incredibly good or it can be incredibly destructive. So and most of the time

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that comes down to literacy, people think about literacy as the ability to read so often. They

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don't exactly understand that literacy has to do with all the context surrounding the information

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that is given to them. So that's really the biggest, I have the book right here, that's really the

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biggest reason that we wrote this book is to be able to increase digital literacy among Americans

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so that the information that they received, they could suss out the legitimacy of it and they could

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use the tools and platforms in a way that would benefit themselves and their communities and

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not have it be used on them to manipulate and control. I'm very like as soon as I start,

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as soon as I start talking about this, I always, my heart rate kind of increases and I can feel

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the energy in my body because it's something that I just feel so strongly about and care so much about.

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The passion is coming through. I think it's a, it gets kind of talked about, but not really. And

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I don't think we're teaching kids those tools of how to identify, you know, at least check things,

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like at least, you know, kind of verify. I mean, my brother was on social media during the holidays

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and he's like, Morgan Freeman died. And I was like, oh, that's weird. I didn't hear anything about that.

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Come to find out. Not even true. So it's just, there is a lot of misinformation out there on,

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you know, everywhere of all kinds. And are you guys still going into schools or what's your role

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these days with promoting like literacy for social media?

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So right now we're doing a lot of guest lecturing at the collegiate level. So we're going into

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collegiate communications class, social, social classes and political science classes.

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And the long term goal for this book is to get it in college curriculum as well as we're working

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towards getting it in any sort of high school or middle school curriculum as well. It's written

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in a very approachable way. We tried to write it at about a sixth grade reading level so that

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anyone could take it and apply the information as much as possible. The thing that is the most

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kind of unique element and the most applicable element for people is something that we've called

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the three-click method, which this idea evolved. We didn't have a name for it back in 2020, but

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this idea evolved at that time because you can imagine as social media managers through before

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pandemic, through pandemic, through the entire last five years, we saw this huge shift happening

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on social media where it really changed into a polarized place where people were looking for

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reasons to fight with each other and rage bait was everywhere. And what we saw, which was really

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interesting was obviously we had to start taking pictures of people in masks and showing that.

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And when we would say something about the mask mandates that was what the restaurant was going

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to be having because of the guidelines that were coming through, we would start seeing

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these comments coming on these posts that were like a specific phrase or an image that had

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a boot on someone's face, an American flag in the background. And as we're in our production

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meetings where all of us who are managing 50 social media profiles, I say I'm seeing this

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and then someone else says they're seeing it too. And so all of a sudden we start saying,

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okay, that doesn't seem normal. And we click through and look at the profiles that are posting

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these and we're finding that these are bot comments. They're not real people. They're posts that have

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been made by accounts that have been hacked that are driving these arguments. And so we're

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seeing these arguments and they're not even real people driving the arguments. And so that's where

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this concept of the three-click method came up, which is very simple. It's like the most simple

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way that we could come up with to verify information quickly. Do you want to hear it?

383
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:41,000
Yeah, absolutely.

384
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Okay. So let's say you're scrolling through your feed, maybe you're on Facebook and you're scrolling

385
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down your feed or you're on Instagram and you're going through your stories feed and you see

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the video that's shared. Okay. When somebody shares a piece of content, some of the context is

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missing right away, like the caption either gets put below or the caption is hidden and all that

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they're sharing is the visual. And so click number one is to click to view the entire post that

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you're looking at. Okay. So you click to see the post and read the caption. Okay. That might take

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30 seconds. Okay. You're reading the whole post. Click number two is to see the profile of the person

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who published this piece of content. So now all you have to do is click on the name or the profile

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photo. That's the second click. And now you're on that profile. And there you can look and see

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what the bio says. You can scroll through the other content they're posting to see, okay, is this

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type of content stuff that I agree with? Do I think it looks legitimate? What other types of

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things are they posting about? And then click number three, only the smartest people are going

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to do click number three. Okay. We're only at about 45 seconds of effort here, but the smartest

397
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people will do click number three. You who wrote dinosaurs to school got to be among the smartest.

398
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I would like to think so. We'll see. Click number three is looking at the about info on a profile.

399
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In the book, we have diagrams that show exactly how to get there on Instagram. There's like three

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dots at the top of a profile. And you can click that and see about this account. And that opens up

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00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:29,800
and shows you the date that that profile was created. It also shows you the country of origin

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00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:38,200
for that profile. And it shows you any former usernames like has this profile ever been called

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00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:42,680
something else before. And those are your three clicks. That's it. And all you really have to do

404
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:49,480
is before you share whatever it is that you saw or even before you let yourself feel really big

405
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emotions about what you've seen, you do those three clicks. It's going to take you about 60

406
00:38:54,440 --> 00:39:00,680
seconds. And then you can decide whether you want to invest your emotions and or amplify that content

407
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:07,320
by sharing it or engaging with it as well. Yeah. And it doesn't take a lot of time. I guess my,

408
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:11,000
I hope people would do that. But I mean, I just know in this like

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world, I hope people will do that. But I know it's so easy to hit that share button right away

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because you're you're fired up. But I like the point of just like taking a minute to be like,

411
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this doesn't have to have control over me. I don't have to get fired up about this. Like maybe,

412
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:33,480
yeah, maybe take a few seconds before. Well, yeah, I mean, it and it's out of context possibly.

413
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:37,880
So exactly. I mean, I love the idea of just kind of like sitting on it for a few seconds and being

414
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:42,440
like, is this something like, is this something I even want to like take in? Is, you know,

415
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:48,360
does that make sense? Yeah. So if you can see like the tagline of this book being slowing the spread

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of misinformation and propaganda, that's what this three click method allows us to do.

417
00:39:53,160 --> 00:40:01,160
And I honestly think that if 40%, God, even if 15, 20% of the people on social media used the

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three click method, that the rate at which misinformation would spread would decrease

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so substantially. If you just spent that few seconds to decide if it's worth investing your

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emotions into, if it's worth amplifying that message, if you trust that creator enough to

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amplify that message. And I don't care exactly what the message is, I just want you to be intentional

422
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:31,000
about whether or not you want to share that, or are you being coerced to share that by the factors

423
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:35,240
in the content as well as the factors in the platform that make it so easy to share without

424
00:40:35,240 --> 00:40:41,080
checking? Right. I love that because it covers all the bases because misinformation can come from

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00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:47,320
any side and it is, you know, it doesn't, it's not political. I've seen misinformation on all

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sides and thankfully Morgan Freeman is still alive as far as I know. Thank goodness.

427
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:57,960
Yeah, I was like, oh, that kind of bummed out. But if my brother would have done that and just

428
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:03,960
checked on it, you know, we wouldn't have had that misinformation being spread even if it was just in

429
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:11,240
our little house area. So I appreciate the fact that you have that as a part of your business,

430
00:41:11,240 --> 00:41:15,480
like having, you know, you're helping people amplify their message, which is a good one,

431
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:19,880
I'm assuming you're not helping anybody that's got a horrible product. But at the same time,

432
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:25,720
you're teaching us all how to just kind of like take a pause before you share something because

433
00:41:25,720 --> 00:41:32,840
that share is powerful. Yeah. And if we're bringing this all the way back to like small businesses

434
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:37,720
and business ownership and entrepreneurship, one of the biggest pieces of advice that I think I would

435
00:41:37,720 --> 00:41:45,080
give to entrepreneurs is to ensure that your brand has some sort of soul and be willing to invest in

436
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:53,880
it. You know, I've, I have, I spent $20,000 last year to get this book made and published. And

437
00:41:53,880 --> 00:42:00,840
that doesn't include the salary time that Adrienne and I spent working on the book as well. And the

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00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:05,880
time we spent to go on a little writing retreat, you know, like I was willing to put a significant

439
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:12,040
amount of investment into something that means something to my heart and my soul. And if I don't

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00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:18,440
do that, then my work is just work. And I could go work for somebody else at any time. But instead of

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00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:27,640
that, I entwine my heart into my purpose and the work that I do. And that's the only way that I

442
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:32,760
survive being an entrepreneur for as long as I have been and going through everything that it takes.

443
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:39,960
Right. Being mission driven is everything. And I think that's a good place to kind of leave it

444
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:46,280
for now. I want you to let people know where they can find you if they're looking for your services

445
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:51,080
or want to reach out because it truly is a valuable service for small businesses. Where can people

446
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:58,120
find you? Thank you. My profiles personally, if you look up Lacey J. Fott on any social media,

447
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:04,920
that's where you'll find me. My business is Sprye, but our handles are ThinkSprye everywhere on social

448
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:11,480
media. And our domain name is ThinkSprye.com. And then if you are looking for this book at all,

449
00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:16,840
you can DM me on any of my social media channels, but it's also available on Amazon. So if you look

450
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:23,960
up down the rabbit hole book, and if you struggle to find it, you can add Lacey J. onto there as well.

451
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:30,040
And this is what it looks like. It's got a one thing we didn't mention is it's Alice in Wonderland

452
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:37,400
themed down the rabbit hole. And so each section has a little bit of a Alice in Wonderland allegory

453
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:43,800
to it to make it really nice and approachable for people too. So very cool. Well, thanks for all

454
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:48,120
you do, Lacey. It's been an absolute pleasure talking with you today. And good luck to you in

455
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:51,960
the future. It's a great service that you provide. Thank you, Doug. And thank you for having me on.

456
00:43:51,960 --> 00:44:07,880
I really appreciate it. Absolutely. Thank you. And we'll see you next time. Okay.