1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,080 Hello and welcome to the Spotlight Vancouver Washington podcast. 2 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:11,280 I'm your host Doug Varinas, license realtor in Washington and Oregon, helping you reach 3 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:14,040 your real estate goals and dreams. 4 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:18,720 And today on the podcast, it's going to be Portland versus Vancouver. 5 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:22,640 We're going to strip away the hype and the clickbait and look at some, an overview of 6 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:28,640 the stats from schools to crime to taxes to everything you're going to want to know to 7 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:30,800 make a decision if you're sitting on the fence. 8 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:35,640 I definitely have a bent here because I live in Vancouver, but I'm going to try to be as 9 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:39,520 even-handed as possible to make this as valuable as possible for you. 10 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:40,520 So stick around. 11 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:42,880 Also, stick around until the end. 12 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:50,120 I'm going to tell you how you can get a 1% temporary buy down paid for by my preferred 13 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:51,120 lender. 14 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:52,360 I'll tell you how to do that at the end. 15 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:53,440 So stick around. 16 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:58,600 But we've got quite the show today because as I mentioned in a previous episode, I would 17 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:05,840 was thinking of doing some clickbait worthy anti-Portland material when Portland was going 18 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:08,680 through a rough time during the pandemic. 19 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:10,200 And we all kind of know what happened. 20 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:14,120 If you don't, it was an ugly scene there. 21 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:20,960 Just with the open air drug markets, the trash can fires, the riots for lack of a better 22 00:01:20,960 --> 00:01:23,360 word protests, depending on who you ask. 23 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:25,360 Portland was going through a tough time. 24 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:30,720 I think since the pandemic has ended, things have gotten a little bit better. 25 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:35,920 And so I think now is a good time to have an even keeled discussion about Portland versus 26 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:40,880 Vancouver and who is better suited for which one. 27 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:43,560 So that you might be listening to this, maybe you're living in Portland, maybe you're in 28 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:47,520 Vancouver, you're thinking of making the move across the river and you're wondering, 29 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:48,680 what's the pros and cons? 30 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:49,680 What does it look like? 31 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:54,080 I'm going to try to give an overview of that and break it down so again, you can get all 32 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:56,240 the information you need to make a decision. 33 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:57,600 So I appreciate you listening. 34 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:01,200 Thanks for the likes, the subscribes, the comments, the shares. 35 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:06,600 They all go a long way into spreading the word about the podcast and I'm super grateful 36 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:07,600 for it. 37 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:13,000 I'd like to just give you a little overview on my journey to Vancouver because I think 38 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:18,360 this year or next year will be, I have lived in each city an equal amount of time. 39 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:23,240 I lived in Portland for 11 years and I think it's going to be next year will be I would 40 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:24,680 live in Vancouver for 11 years. 41 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:32,480 So I do have experience living in both cities for quite a while and my journey to Vancouver 42 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:43,800 began in 2015 when my girlfriend, now wife, and I were looking at homes and we had lived 43 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:47,080 in Portland kind of in the city center, urban center. 44 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:53,480 We lived in the Irvington neighborhood together and we both had graduated from grad school 45 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:58,880 and we're moving on in our careers and we were looking for a home together and we wanted 46 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:04,760 to stay in Portland and during the 2015, the market was pretty hot. 47 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:06,960 It was actually really hot. 48 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:13,000 Multiple offers over, over asking, crazy over asking and so with our realtor that we were 49 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:19,720 using, we were finding ourselves being pushed further and further east. 50 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:25,160 Pass 82nd Avenue, which if you live in Portland and especially at that time, Pass 82nd Avenue 51 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:26,160 is like Mars. 52 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:30,160 It was another planet that wasn't really Portland and we were still getting out bid 53 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:34,560 on homes that we were kind of not super excited about. 54 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:41,000 And so I started looking in Vancouver because I had gotten a job working at the Vancouver 55 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:46,280 school district as an occupational therapist and I was interested in finding out more 56 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:50,600 about Vancouver and the tax because there's no income tax here. 57 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:52,680 That was definitely appealing to me. 58 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:56,640 I had found myself like I wasn't just, I wasn't going out as much. 59 00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:57,640 I don't know. 60 00:03:57,640 --> 00:03:58,640 I'm settling down. 61 00:03:58,640 --> 00:03:59,960 I had a fiance. 62 00:03:59,960 --> 00:04:04,480 We were looking to kind of move on and I just found myself open to the possibility of living 63 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:08,160 in Vancouver because I was going to be working there and it was more affordable. 64 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:12,080 And I thought I could get a similar neighborhood because I was looking for that kind of neighborhood 65 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:18,040 feel older homes and similar to what I'd find in Portland, similar to what I wanted in Portland. 66 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:23,760 And so I had to do a public relations campaign with my wife about it and it involved riding 67 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:29,440 our bikes up to Vancouver and we toured kind of the uptown neighborhood, how we were basically 68 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:30,840 kind of downtown. 69 00:04:30,840 --> 00:04:36,080 And that's where most of the shops were and most of the, and the kind of neighborhoods 70 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:39,160 that we wanted in Portland. 71 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:40,160 Oh my goodness. 72 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:41,160 Are you kidding me? 73 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:42,160 I am. 74 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:43,160 Okay. 75 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:44,160 I thought I was offline there. 76 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:51,960 So we had, yeah, I had to take her and do a publicity tour. 77 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:57,040 I was all in at that point because we were seeing homes that were significantly less 78 00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:01,880 expensive in areas that felt like Portland basically to us at the time. 79 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:10,640 And so with a lot of cajoling and some convincing, I got my fiance, my girlfriend, now wife again 80 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:12,920 to agree to move to Vancouver and we did. 81 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:16,720 And we haven't regretted it since and we've done very well, but that was kind of our journey. 82 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:20,120 Like we were sort of reluctant to Vancouver folks. 83 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:23,280 And you know, now it's a little bit of a different scene. 84 00:05:23,280 --> 00:05:29,880 I think people are seeking out Vancouver and wanting to come to Vancouver for some of the 85 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:31,080 reasons that I'll mention. 86 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:33,800 But again, this podcast is about Portland versus Vancouver. 87 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:37,000 So let's talk about some of the real estate related statistics. 88 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:44,400 The median sales price in Vancouver currently $562,000. 89 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:48,800 The surprising thing is Portland's medium sale price is 538. 90 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:52,000 And you know, five, 10 years ago, you'd never see this. 91 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:55,280 You know, it would be impossible that the median sale price in Vancouver would be higher 92 00:05:55,280 --> 00:05:56,880 than Portland, but here we are. 93 00:05:56,880 --> 00:05:57,880 It is. 94 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:02,080 It's a market in Portland, 84 days, 63 days in Vancouver. 95 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:10,160 So you know, kind of similar market statistics and it's yeah, very similar real estate market, 96 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:13,520 very similar five year appreciation. 97 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:18,520 What I think you're seeing is you're the market is appreciating more in Vancouver because 98 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:22,040 more people are moving here and seeing the advantages. 99 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:30,160 Portland's still a desirable place to live and we're going to get into that. 100 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:36,440 But the housing markets have performed similarly over the last few years. 101 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:40,480 When we talk about sort of the overview of Portland, you got about in the metro area 102 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:46,480 about 650,000 people there compared to about 200,000 in Vancouver. 103 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:52,560 If you include Hillsborough, Beaverton, Gresham, it gets into almost 2 million. 104 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:57,960 And then in Clark County, you might get up to like maybe 300,000. 105 00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:00,480 So Portland obviously a lot bigger. 106 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:02,800 The economy is bigger. 107 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:10,680 There's just there's more going on in Portland as far as restaurants, as far as museums, 108 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:15,920 as far as performance venues, what we call I guess culture. 109 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:19,800 Or in Portland, there's just more going on there because it's a bigger metro area. 110 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:26,920 The economy in Portland, the biggest employers in Portland are the hospital system, Providence 111 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:34,480 Health System, and then it's Intel and then Oregon Health and Science University, OHSU 112 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:36,600 and then Nike and then Legacy. 113 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:41,320 Well OHSU recently bought out Legacy, so that's going to make them one of the biggest employers 114 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:42,400 in the Portland area. 115 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:47,000 So basically it's Nike, Intel and Hospitals are the biggest employers in Portland, where 116 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:52,600 in Vancouver, the biggest employers are also hospitals and schools. 117 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:56,200 So the Evergreen School District, the Vancouver School District, and then you have Peace Health 118 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:59,880 and then to a lesser degree, Legacy are the biggest employers here. 119 00:07:59,880 --> 00:08:07,880 So similar economies, but obviously the Intel and Nike kind of are super big players in 120 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:12,000 Portland metro area and one of the largest employers. 121 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:16,920 When it comes to taxes and property taxes, I was surprised to learn that the property 122 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:19,640 taxes are assessed a little bit lower in Portland. 123 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:24,320 I think it's 1.07% compared to 1.25%. 124 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:30,760 Obviously there's a bunch of levies and other taxes that I feel kind of level the playing 125 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:31,760 field. 126 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:35,880 So when it comes to property taxes, I'm going to call this a wash because I think they're 127 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:40,120 both fairly expensive as a West Coast city goes. 128 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:42,600 So I'm going to give that a pretty even keel there. 129 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:50,960 So as you probably know, or maybe you don't, but there's no sales tax in Portland, in 130 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:52,400 Oregon. 131 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:53,400 There isn't income tax. 132 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:57,880 So if you live in Multnomah County, that number is going to be about 9.9%. 133 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:00,920 So almost 10% income tax. 134 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:09,720 In Vancouver, there is a sales tax of about 8.6% and no state income tax. 135 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:16,120 So that does make a big difference because if it's up to me, I'm going to take no income 136 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:20,600 tax because I don't have a choice on whether that gets taxed or not. 137 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:25,200 I have a choice on whether I buy things or not and where I buy them, but I don't have 138 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:28,760 a choice on them taking out income tax. 139 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:30,440 This can save a lot of money. 140 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:36,440 I remember when I first moved over the bridge, it was saving me $500 a month. 141 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:42,200 And so I'm definitely going to give the advantage to Vancouver in that regard. 142 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:48,400 From tax purposes, especially income tax, it's pretty cool to not have to pay state income 143 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:49,400 tax. 144 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:54,800 Now people who live in Vancouver, you can take advantage of the no sales tax and the 145 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:55,880 no income tax. 146 00:09:55,880 --> 00:10:01,920 So there's plenty of people that do their shopping at like the airport way Costco and 147 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:05,080 they don't pay any sales tax there when they do their shopping and then they take all this 148 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:10,280 stuff across the river and then they don't have to pay income tax in the state of Washington. 149 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:12,520 And so they kind of just avoid all taxes. 150 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:13,760 I don't do that. 151 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:15,520 I'll do that for bigger purchases. 152 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:19,000 Note to self, don't try to do that with a car because they'll, they just get you on 153 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:20,000 registration. 154 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:22,000 So when you go register, you have to pay taxes. 155 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:26,680 So you can't go buy a car and a new car, at least from a dealer in Oregon and then bring 156 00:10:26,680 --> 00:10:30,400 it to Washington and think you're not going to pay sales tax because you do. 157 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:35,160 But for other big purchases like appliances or, you know, if I have to buy home improvement 158 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:37,480 products, I will go to Janssen Beach. 159 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:42,920 So the whole reason Janssen Beach exists basically is to provide some tax benefits to people 160 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:45,960 coming from Vancouver to be honest. 161 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:51,120 And so for bigger purchases, I do make that trip to save myself some money and it's pretty 162 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:52,120 significant. 163 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:56,640 So for taxes, I'm going to give the nod to Vancouver. 164 00:10:56,640 --> 00:11:00,680 And like I said before, obviously I have some skin in the game, I live in Vancouver, but 165 00:11:00,680 --> 00:11:07,880 I don't see why if you worked in Vancouver, you wouldn't want to live in Vancouver. 166 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:13,800 So as far as that goes, like if you're commuting into Portland, you still have to pay the Oregon 167 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:17,200 income tax based on where you work. 168 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:21,000 But if you're able to work remotely, like, you know, if you work for Nike, you have a 169 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:25,600 friend who works for Nike and he does most of his work remotely and he can take advantage 170 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:27,500 of the no state income tax. 171 00:11:27,500 --> 00:11:34,720 But as soon as you go into work, you will be taxed at that, you know, Oregon state income 172 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:36,320 tax rate. 173 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:38,840 Again, consult your CPA about that. 174 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:42,200 But you do calculate the number of days you're there versus home. 175 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:44,280 But again, not financial advice. 176 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:45,560 Check with your CPA. 177 00:11:45,560 --> 00:11:48,840 But that's a big advantage not to have that income tax. 178 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:52,400 Stepping into the realm of crime. 179 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:58,000 This is where we get into sort of that pandemic recent history where crime in these big cities 180 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:01,640 kind of all across the US increased dramatically. 181 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:04,400 And we saw that pretty dramatically in Portland. 182 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:11,120 And what happened was they decriminalize all drug use and possession with the intent being 183 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:18,400 I think, you know, good intentions like let's not put minor offenders in prison for minor 184 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:20,280 drug offenses. 185 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:25,640 But unfortunately what ended up happening was it just became an open air drug market. 186 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:28,360 Like it was and it was pretty it was pretty bad. 187 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:32,720 Obviously it wasn't uniform throughout the entire city of Portland, but it was unsightly 188 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:37,000 and that combined with the growing number of people experiencing homelessness. 189 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:44,400 There were huge camps and Portland's always kind of had a liberal camping, camping policy. 190 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:49,320 And so that got exploited to the point where it was pretty bad and it was a shame really 191 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:56,560 to see it areas like, you know, Delta Park and the 205 corridor and Johnson Creek area 192 00:12:56,560 --> 00:13:03,600 just became huge homeless camps and then just a lot of pain and misery. 193 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:08,680 Basically, I remember like driving to Portland at night and just seeing all the trash can 194 00:13:08,680 --> 00:13:13,200 fires and it was it was a shame to see. 195 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:22,040 And then you had the George Floyd protests and that kind of just destroyed downtown to 196 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:24,160 the point where the businesses haven't come back. 197 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:30,360 Like I went there not too long ago and there was still a lot of abandoned businesses. 198 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:36,400 And unfortunately it just seems like it's been tough for the city to deal with these 199 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:41,960 problems in a way that's been effective and they're not the only city to have these problems. 200 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:52,320 But they just have not been able to get a handle on the drug use and the issue of homelessness 201 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:54,360 to the point where it became unlivable. 202 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:55,880 And I think it's gotten better. 203 00:13:55,880 --> 00:14:02,040 I haven't seen as much because what they did was they re-criminalize drug use and that 204 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:06,600 went a long way into I mean, I don't think it solved the problem, but it definitely put 205 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:12,840 it more underground and lessen people's faces and we can all debate on whether that's effective 206 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:13,840 or not. 207 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:17,360 But at the end of the day, like it did increase livability. 208 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:23,640 And so I think it's gotten a little bit better, but there's just more crime in Portland. 209 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:29,800 So poking around on an interactive crime site, I will post these in the show notes. 210 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:33,560 I have a Lexis Nexus one that does like a lot interactive. 211 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:36,800 You can check on where crimes have occurred and what they are. 212 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:39,040 And then I have some stats for Portland crime. 213 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:43,040 I think homicides in Portland are currently at 80, which is I think it's lower than it 214 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:44,040 was. 215 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:48,520 It was in triple digits during the pandemic where it's like, you know, there was 12 homicides 216 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:51,240 last year in Vancouver. 217 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:54,840 There's a lot of property crimes and assaults. 218 00:14:54,840 --> 00:15:00,280 I think there's like 50,000 property crimes in Portland last year and, you know, somewhere 219 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:03,120 around 6,000 in Vancouver. 220 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:07,320 So again, we're talking, you know, this is a scale thing too because the population in 221 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:11,760 Portland is about three times that of Vancouver. 222 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:17,120 There is less crime overall in Vancouver and it is, you know, crime is a tricky thing 223 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:20,360 because it depends, you know, it's not all located in the same place. 224 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:22,160 It doesn't happen at the same time. 225 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:26,600 You can always be in the wrong place in the wrong time and experience a crime. 226 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:30,600 You know, when I lived in Portland, I never, you know, I had a bicycle stolen one time. 227 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:32,520 You know, I wasn't a victim of crime. 228 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:34,240 I didn't experience that. 229 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:39,640 And so I felt very safe in Portland and maybe that's changed. 230 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:41,080 I haven't lived there in a while. 231 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:42,080 Same thing in Vancouver. 232 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:47,960 I've never felt threatened, never felt in danger. 233 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:52,840 So you know, crime is one of those statistics where, you know, really you can look at the 234 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:58,400 numbers but it's going to depend on your experience with crime and where you're at. 235 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:00,040 And again, there's a lot of factors. 236 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:07,400 But for me, overall, more crime in Portland, more property crime, more homicides, more 237 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:11,160 gang activity, not that we don't have these things in Vancouver. 238 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:12,800 There's just less overall. 239 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:15,520 And so I'm going to give the nod to Vancouver on this too. 240 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:23,080 Again, I was reading an article that actually crime went down by about 7% year over year. 241 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:25,840 The perception of that is not that though. 242 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:29,680 I think if you talk to people in Vancouver, they'll tell you that crime is increasing 243 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:31,800 especially property crime. 244 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:32,800 That's big here. 245 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:36,200 Break-ins, some robberies or burglaries. 246 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:39,920 But I think car break-ins are big as they are in Portland. 247 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:44,280 So for this, I'm going to give the edge to Vancouver. 248 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:45,280 Let's move on. 249 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:46,280 Schools. 250 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:49,760 So, man, schools is another tricky one because I always tell people like you can go on these 251 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:55,480 rating sites, check the school ratings and they're not accurate because the turnover 252 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:57,480 from year to year can make a huge difference. 253 00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:01,160 Like that they get a new principal, there's new teachers, somebody leaves. 254 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:07,160 You really need to do your work on the ground to find out what's going on at that school. 255 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:10,640 So these are just some overarching stats. 256 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:17,840 I mean, then basically, graduation rates and dropout rates, test scores. 257 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:22,360 For Portland Public, the graduation rate is 81%. 258 00:17:22,360 --> 00:17:24,480 So that's kind of abysmal. 259 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:25,480 That's crazy. 260 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:31,640 That's almost 20% of the school population not graduating, which is nuts to me, with 261 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:34,160 a dropout rate of 6%. 262 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:37,200 So not great. 263 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:46,000 For Vancouver and Evergreen school districts, the graduation rate is 86%, 87% with a 4% to 264 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:47,400 5% dropout rate. 265 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:48,880 So not super great either. 266 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:54,560 A few years ago, I would have given the edge to Vancouver no problem because a lot of 267 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:56,680 the schools in Portland were falling down. 268 00:17:56,680 --> 00:18:02,080 They had structural issues, big time, almost like condemned status. 269 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:07,360 Through a number of levies, they have rebuilt schools and sort of done the repair there. 270 00:18:07,360 --> 00:18:12,440 As they have in Vancouver, the Vancouver also has had several levies that have been 271 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:15,640 approved and new schools have been built and repairs have been made. 272 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:18,520 So I don't think there's a huge difference there. 273 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:23,720 The test scores for math and reading are below standard for all the school districts. 274 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:28,080 In public, Evergreen, Vancouver, not great, not meeting benchmark, they're working on 275 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:30,600 it. 276 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:34,280 As far as the schools go, it's a tough one. 277 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:39,360 I mean, I'm tempted to just give it a wash and say they're both kind of even. 278 00:18:39,360 --> 00:18:41,840 I guess that would be my official answer. 279 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:48,440 But really, I just think with the big city influence, like I'm very protective of my 280 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:56,280 kids and so I want them to have less exposure to big city issues, whatever they are that 281 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:57,880 kids are exposed to. 282 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:05,040 And I think that in Vancouver, you get less exposure to that in general, although, again, 283 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:07,880 depends on the school, depends on the peers. 284 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:08,880 It's hard to say. 285 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:13,720 So I'm personally going to give the edge to the Vancouver and Evergreen school districts, 286 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:20,120 but again, statistically, and actually statistically, the edge does go to Vancouver and Evergreen, 287 00:19:20,120 --> 00:19:24,000 just with those dropout rates and graduation rates, but it's close. 288 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:26,360 And again, it's a very personal thing. 289 00:19:26,360 --> 00:19:31,360 Again, best to get some information on the ground to find out the quality of that school 290 00:19:31,360 --> 00:19:33,680 that you're thinking of sending your kids to. 291 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:37,600 The political vibe, I think something I have to mention. 292 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:43,320 So for somebody thinking of moving to Vancouver versus Portland, obviously Portland is a liberal 293 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:44,320 city. 294 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:45,440 I mean, that's kind of what it's known for. 295 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:53,480 It attracts people from all over the country looking to tap into the ethos of like being 296 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:58,400 artistic, being free, the liberal ethos. 297 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:01,920 So I mean, it's a liberal city. 298 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:07,680 It's a blue city where I think Vancouver is, I'm going to say it's more centrist. 299 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:10,640 So I don't think it's super conservative. 300 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:15,360 It's a pretty live and let live city in my experience. 301 00:20:15,360 --> 00:20:17,920 It definitely leans more center right. 302 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:21,920 And so if that's an issue for you or if that's something, you know, if you see like a Trump 303 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:27,160 flag in somebody's yard and that's really triggering for you, like maybe Vancouver isn't for you. 304 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:28,560 Again, depends on the neighborhood. 305 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:33,200 So like how Carter Park, Lincoln sort of west of the five tends to be more liberal, like 306 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:39,320 closer to the river seems to be a little bit more liberal in general. 307 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:43,640 For Portland, I feel like across the board, like you're, you're not seeing a lot of MAGA 308 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:46,760 hats in Portland. 309 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:51,840 And whether that's a pro or a con to you, it's just something that is. 310 00:20:51,840 --> 00:21:00,760 I do think we've seen a general failure of some of these blue cities to address issues 311 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:05,160 like crime, like shoplifting, it's legal, it's fine. 312 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:10,920 Same thing with the drug use and homelessness, we've seen cities like San Francisco kind 313 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:13,360 of falling apart in Chicago. 314 00:21:13,360 --> 00:21:16,840 And I mean, you, I think you can put Portland in that category. 315 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:20,840 So I don't know where the city of Portland is going. 316 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:26,840 It just tends to be kind of a race to the, to the extreme in my estimation. 317 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:31,080 And so I don't know where it's where it's heading, but it's definitely it's a, it's 318 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:36,280 a blue city and if you're not comfortable with that, Portland, probably not for you. 319 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:40,560 Vancouver, I think you can find a place people aren't going to bug you. 320 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:44,360 I'm just going to give an example of an election, a result that we had recently like a state 321 00:21:44,360 --> 00:21:50,040 Congress, I believe it was Joe Kent, who was a pretty conservative candidate, like pretty 322 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:56,160 right wing candidate versus Marie Gleuz and Camp Perez, a Democrat, but very centrist, 323 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:59,960 like very, I don't know, to me seems very common sense candidate. 324 00:21:59,960 --> 00:22:02,360 And she won in like a landslide. 325 00:22:02,360 --> 00:22:04,880 I don't think it was that close. 326 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:08,120 And so I think that's a good example of Vancouver in general. 327 00:22:08,120 --> 00:22:12,640 Like we're just sort of in the middle and we appreciate moderation and that's been my 328 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:13,640 experience. 329 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:18,480 So if you, if you want to roast me about any of this stuff, please let me know in the comments 330 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:19,480 about your experience. 331 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:23,240 I'm trying to keep this as even handed as possible. 332 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:28,720 And you know, if you disagree, yeah, feel free to, to let me know about it. 333 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:32,320 I would appreciate it and let me know what your experience has been living in Vancouver 334 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:37,320 or Portland, but it is a, it is a factor is, is the political leaning. 335 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:44,280 So who is, so, so that kind of brings us to which city is right for who, like who might 336 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:50,080 be a good fit for Portland and who might be a good fit for Vancouver in general. 337 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:55,640 So for me, Portland, you know, you want the people are going to enjoy living in Portland 338 00:22:55,640 --> 00:23:03,360 are, you know, I feel like they, they have, they want to tap into like the bigger economy. 339 00:23:03,360 --> 00:23:09,480 Some of the people that work at Nike or Intel or other creatives are going to, in general, 340 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:12,480 I think they want to be, people want to be in that scene. 341 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:17,320 Like they want to be near the restaurants and the bars and the music venues and things 342 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:19,760 are happening are going to want to be in Portland. 343 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:24,960 Now some of those people that work at Nike and Intel and stuff, they'll move to Hillsboro 344 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:27,520 or Beaverton to get out of Multnomah County. 345 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:31,920 So that's another story, but in general, those people are going to want to be in the metro 346 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:32,920 area. 347 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:37,680 So anyone who wants to tap into a scene and have a lot of that access to that stuff. 348 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:40,960 Now if you live in Vancouver, you can still drive over the bridge and take advantage of 349 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:41,960 any of that. 350 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:46,200 It's a little more inconvenient, I guess, but really it's a 10 minute drive south, depending 351 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:47,440 on where you live. 352 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:48,440 Yeah. 353 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:58,440 Right, and I think people who are more left leaning politically or maybe identify with 354 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:03,520 the community that is stronger in Portland than it would be in Vancouver. 355 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:08,680 And those people are probably going to want to, are more likely to be in Portland or be 356 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:11,720 attracted to what Portland has to offer. 357 00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:17,960 So in general, it's going to be, you know, maybe dual income, no kids, dinks who want 358 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:22,720 to tap into, I'm painting with a broad brush here, but I'm just trying to create a profile 359 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,200 of somebody who might be more attracted to Portland. 360 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:29,560 So you know, double income, no kids want to take advantage of all the amenities of Portland 361 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:33,800 or liberal leaning, you know, ROK paying the extra taxes for it. 362 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:38,200 They don't really mind that they're going to want to be there. 363 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:43,080 I think Vancouver is, you know, it's kind of a, it's more of a suburban feel. 364 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:45,200 There's, you know, there's some good restaurants. 365 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:47,400 There's a lot, you know, there's things to do here. 366 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:52,200 I never run into a shortage of events or things to do, but there's just not much as there 367 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:53,520 is in Portland. 368 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:57,480 So I think if you're looking for like a more suburban, maybe a little slower lifestyle, 369 00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:01,400 like having all those amenities right near you isn't as important. 370 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:03,200 You might be more attracted to Vancouver. 371 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:10,240 I do think the school issue for me as a parent, I am, I'm going to want a little bit better 372 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:11,440 school district. 373 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,000 And so I think you might want to check out Vancouver. 374 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:18,680 If, if you're thinking of having kids or you have kids, I think, I think the school 375 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:23,760 districts in this area are just a little bit better, a little bit less exposure to big 376 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:25,000 city issues. 377 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:28,760 I think the tax advantages of Vancouver are huge. 378 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:34,720 So if you can work remotely or if you work in Vancouver, I don't see a reason why you 379 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,640 wouldn't want to live in this area. 380 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:43,800 Like it's a pretty big financial advantage to come to Vancouver and not have to pay income 381 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:45,320 tax, state income tax. 382 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:49,360 And again, if you want to go over the bridge, do all your shopping there, come back over, 383 00:25:49,360 --> 00:25:52,160 you know, you can, you can live the tax free life. 384 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:56,640 I, for convenience sake, I tend to just do most of my shopping, like grocery shopping 385 00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:57,640 and stuff. 386 00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:02,840 I just, I stick around here in Vancouver and I just pay that sales tax, that 8.6% sales 387 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:04,520 tax, which is no small thing. 388 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:09,440 Like, like I said, I will go to Janssen Beach or some, somewhere in Oregon to buy like an 389 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,080 appliance or a big ticket item. 390 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:17,360 So those are the, you know, people I think are going to gravitate towards each city. 391 00:26:17,360 --> 00:26:21,120 Again, really depends on your personal situation. 392 00:26:21,120 --> 00:26:23,080 Like it's a very personal decision. 393 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:25,280 So this is just designed to give you an overview. 394 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,320 And I hope I've been able to do that today. 395 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,000 Both cities offer pros and cons. 396 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:35,520 Both cities have their challenges like any metropolitan area does. 397 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:40,400 But I hope this kind of overview has given you a little bit better idea of who the situation 398 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:44,920 of each city and, you know, what they both offer. 399 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:46,560 So thank you very much for listening. 400 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:54,640 As I promised in the intro, I want to throw out an offer of a 1% lender paid buy down 401 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:56,200 on a mortgage. 402 00:26:56,200 --> 00:27:00,680 So I'm going to have a link to this in the show notes as well. 403 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:06,160 But my friend and colleague, Trevor Bonnet at Guild Mortgage is offering this 1% lender 404 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:08,120 pay down on a mortgage. 405 00:27:08,120 --> 00:27:14,760 You have to go to guildmortgage.com backslash Trevor Bonnet, double N, double T. Again, 406 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:20,120 I'll have it linked and you can start a discussion with him about how to get this 1% buy down 407 00:27:20,120 --> 00:27:21,840 on your mortgage rate. 408 00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:24,120 So thank you everybody for listening. 409 00:27:24,120 --> 00:27:25,120 Take care out there. 410 00:27:25,120 --> 00:27:42,120 See you next time.