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Hey everyone, welcome to another deep dive.

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We're gonna be looking at some news analysis

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that we have today.

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Absolutely, a lot going on out there.

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A lot going on in the world from,

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we've got US politics, we've got international relations.

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Yeah.

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All sorts of stuff going on.

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It's a busy week.

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And we've got three sort of main topics

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that we're gonna be hitting today.

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Yes.

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And one of those is the Ukraine situation

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and how the new Trump administration is handling that.

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We've got the hostage situation with Hamas.

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That's right.

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And then we've got some US political shapeups

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that are going on.

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Yes.

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Including the postmaster general stepping down.

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Right.

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And Trump's controversial stance

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on birthright citizenship.

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Yeah, that's certainly causing some waves.

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So there's a lot going on.

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Absolutely.

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And a lot of maybe surprising

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and perhaps even alarming developments in there,

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especially when it comes to Trump's approach

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to foreign policy, you know?

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Right, it's definitely been a.

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Trump's departure from previous administrations

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in terms of approach and style.

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It's a different approach.

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And I think, you know, they use the word transactional.

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Yes, very much so.

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In some of the analysis that we have

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about how he's handling Ukraine, you know?

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Absolutely.

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And a good example of that is his initial offer

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of aid to Ukraine came with a pretty significant string

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attached access to their rare earth metals.

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Interesting.

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So it's a very clear quid pro quo.

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Yeah.

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You know, is that effective in today's,

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I mean.

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In a political landscape or is that something that?

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That's the big question, isn't it?

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And I think it really reveals a lot about Trump's priorities

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and his sort of worldview.

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Right.

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You know, he's repeatedly made claims, for example,

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that Zelensky started the war and is unpopular,

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which are demonstrably false.

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Wow.

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And then you have Defense Secretary Heksef.

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Right.

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Making statements about Ukraine's borders.

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Yeah.

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And the membership that echo Russian talking points.

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Yeah.

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Those quotes that we have about, you know,

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maybe they just have to accept the loss of territory.

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Right.

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And sort of questioning the US's commitment to Nego.

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Yeah.

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That raised a lot of eyebrows in European capitals.

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Yeah.

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It sounds like, are we playing into Putin's hands here?

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Well, some foreign policy analysts are saying exactly that.

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Foreign Policy Magazine recently published an article

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comparing Putin to a trust ground master.

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Wow.

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And it's a blend in an amateur.

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Oh.

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With Trump being the amateur.

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Okay.

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They argue that Putin is exploiting Trump's impulsiveness.

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Right.

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His desire for quick victories and strategically outmaneuvering

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him at every turn.

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Yeah.

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That's, I mean.

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Some pretty.

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Especially if we start withdrawing from NATO.

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Right.

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Which is a real possible.

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It's EU's noticing this.

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Oh, absolutely.

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They're taking steps.

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They're going to have a summit.

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Yes.

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They're organizing a summit to discuss potential actions

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if the US does indeed reduce its support for Ukraine.

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Okay.

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And they're going so far as direct military involvement.

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Wow.

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So they're definitely not taking this lightly.

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They'll totally shift the.

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Absolutely.

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The whole power dynamic in my agent.

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Yeah.

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So that's a lot to unpack there.

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It is.

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But let's maybe switch gears a little bit

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and talk about this recent prisoner swap

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involving Mark Fogle, the teacher.

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Right.

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And Alexander Vinnick, who is a criminal.

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This has sparked quite a bit of controversy.

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Yeah.

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Especially given Trump's previous criticism

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of Biden's prisoner swap for Brittany Greiner.

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It seems like maybe a little bit of a double standard.

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It does appear at.

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Going on there.

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But beyond just that political,

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sort of the political optics of it,

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what are some of the strategic implications?

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Well, for one, this swap sets a dangerous precedent.

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Okay.

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It basically tells Russia that they can detain

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American citizens and use them as bargaining ships

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to secure the release of their own criminals.

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Right.

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Potentially encouraging them to engage

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in hostage diplomacy in the future.

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And not only that,

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but it could also provide Russia with Compromat.

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Absolutely.

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That's a real concern.

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Which is basically compromising information.

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Yes.

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Information that can be used for blackmail or leverage.

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Right.

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That they can use to ex-example or to.

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To exert influence.

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To exert influence.

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In an advantage.

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Yeah.

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So I mean, that's.

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It's a risky game they're playing.

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It's risky business.

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Yeah.

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Very much so.

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So I mean, it's almost like Putin's playing this,

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you know, long game here.

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Right.

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He's thinking several steps ahead.

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And we're more focused on.

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Well, Trump is more react.

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Fatification right now.

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Exactly.

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Short term gains.

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Right.

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That's long term strategy.

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Speaking of complex situations,

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let's switch over and talk about the hostage situation

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with Hamas in the Middle East.

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Right.

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Another area where information is limited.

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It is a.

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But there are some developments worth noting.

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Okay.

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Hamas has recently resumed hostage exchanges.

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That's great.

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And there are reports that more hostages and bodies

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are scheduled to be released soon.

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That's encouraging.

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So at least a glimmer of hope.

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Yeah, but is this, you know, is this a genuine desire

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for peace or is there something else?

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It's tough to say for sure.

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It's probably a combination of factors.

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There may be diplomatic efforts behind the scenes.

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Maybe some influence from Trump's tough talk.

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But we also have to remember that Hamas has a history

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of using hostage releases as a way to gain concessions

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or international recognition.

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That's true.

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So we can be cautiously optimistic.

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But the situation remains volatile and unpredictable.

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Unpredictable.

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We'll have to see how it plays out.

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So fragile peace at this point.

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Very much so.

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All right.

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And then, you know, back here in the U.S.,

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we've got this major shakeup with Postmaster General

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Louis DeJoy stepping down.

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What's going on with that?

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Well, his tenure has been marked by controversy.

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Yeah.

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Accusations of slowing down mail delivery.

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Right.

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Concerns about his ties to the Trump administration.

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Yeah, it's, and you know, the process for selecting

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the new Postmaster General.

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It's a little bit strange.

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It is rather unusual.

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You know, it's done by this USPS Board of Governors.

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Yes.

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And there's no input from Congress

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or from the co-presidents.

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Right, which has raised concerns

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about political influence.

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So are we going to see, you know,

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is Trump going to try to get like a loyalist in there?

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That's certainly a possibility.

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Yeah.

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Given his track record, it wouldn't be surprising.

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And speaking of, you know, getting loyalists in and talking.

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Well, and this whole idea of controlling the narrative

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brings us to the right wing media machine.

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Right.

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And really shaping the political landscape.

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Yeah.

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This is something that's been in the headlines a lot recently.

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It has.

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Thanks in part to Fox News personality Jesse Waters.

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Yeah, that guy.

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He's been openly boasting about the right wing media's

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information warfare tactics.

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It's almost like he's bragging about.

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He is.

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So proud of it.

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Manipulating public opinion and spreading disinformation.

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Well, he gave this interview where he described

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the right wing media machine as a well-oiled propaganda

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operation.

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Really?

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Churning out stories and narratives

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with incredible speed and reach.

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Yeah, it's like.

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And he basically said that Democrats have no chance

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of competing because they're stuck in the past

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with their tiny press conferences

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and their nuanced argument.

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Like he thinks that facts on logic are no match

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for emotion and outrage.

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That's his argument.

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But I mean, it's hard to argue with him that it's effective.

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You know?

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Right, they've mastered the art of crafting

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simple emotionally charged narratives.

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Even what they're doing.

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They resonate with their base.

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And they have this vast network.

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Yeah, they've got everything.

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The cable news, to talk radio, social media.

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Everywhere.

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To amplify those narratives.

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Yeah, and so it's.

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So it's a very effective machine.

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It's hard to compete with.

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It is, but there are some cracks emerging.

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Oh, really?

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In their armor.

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Okay.

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Cable TV viewership is declining.

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Oh, interesting.

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And even Fox News' audience is aging.

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So you're saying that like the future of political media.

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Right.

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It's gonna be these monolithic top-down media empires.

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The rise of independent blogs, podcasts,

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social media platforms is creating a more fragmented

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and decentralized media landscape.

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And is that good or bad?

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It's a double-edged sword, I think.

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On the one hand, it could lead to a more diverse range

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of voices and perspectives.

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But on the other hand, it makes it harder

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to discern fact from fiction.

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That's true.

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It's easier for people to find themselves in echo chambers.

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Yeah, so, I mean, are we entering like a whole new era?

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I think so.

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Are we through information warfare?

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Yeah, it's a different kind of battleground.

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It's not tanks and troops.

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It's information and narratives.

284
00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:25,240
And that requires a different set of skills.

285
00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:27,600
Critical thinking, media literacy.

286
00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:28,600
Elythesism.

287
00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:30,720
We can't just accept everything we see

288
00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:31,960
and hear at face value.

289
00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:33,880
So how does that play into this story

290
00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:35,840
about the Washington Post and their decision?

291
00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:37,280
Well, this is a perfect example.

292
00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:38,920
To reject an anti-Trump ad.

293
00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:42,480
Of how attempts to control the narrative can backfire.

294
00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:45,560
The Post rejected this ad from Common Cause,

295
00:08:45,560 --> 00:08:48,760
which criticized Trump's record on the environment.

296
00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:52,120
They claimed concerns about accuracy and fairness,

297
00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:55,000
but they had no problem running a pro-Trump ad

298
00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:57,040
from a fossil fuel industry group.

299
00:08:57,040 --> 00:08:57,880
Wow, that's...

300
00:08:57,880 --> 00:08:59,640
So it's a pretty blatant double standard.

301
00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:00,480
It is.

302
00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:03,720
And it raises questions about their editorial judgment

303
00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:07,480
and their willingness to stand up to powerful interests.

304
00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:08,640
So what happened?

305
00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:11,680
Well, their attempt to suppress the ad backfired

306
00:09:11,680 --> 00:09:12,760
spectacularly.

307
00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:13,600
How so?

308
00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:15,360
Because of something called the Streisand effect.

309
00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:16,360
The Streisand effect.

310
00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:18,560
Okay, which is basically when attempts

311
00:09:18,560 --> 00:09:22,120
to suppress information, actually give it more attention.

312
00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:24,080
Oh, so it's like, so they tried to...

313
00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:24,920
They tried to...

314
00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:25,760
By rejecting the ad.

315
00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:26,600
Keep it quiet.

316
00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:28,320
They made it a much bigger story.

317
00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:29,160
Wow.

318
00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:30,000
Than it would have been ordered.

319
00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:30,840
Interesting.

320
00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:32,840
So it's like they accidentally gave it more publicity.

321
00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:35,880
They amplified the very message they were trying to silence.

322
00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:36,720
Wow.

323
00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:38,080
Okay, that's...

324
00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:39,400
It's a classic example...

325
00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:40,240
Interesting.

326
00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:43,160
Of how things can backfire in the age of social media.

327
00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:44,280
Yeah, and how...

328
00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:46,280
Where information spreads like wildfire.

329
00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:47,360
You can't really control the...

330
00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:49,120
Right, you can't put the genie back in the bottle.

331
00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:49,960
Right, exactly.

332
00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:50,800
Because it's out there.

333
00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:53,360
Okay, well, we've got one more story.

334
00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:54,200
All right.

335
00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:55,280
And this one I think is...

336
00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:56,200
It's an interesting one.

337
00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:57,040
Really gonna...

338
00:09:57,040 --> 00:09:57,880
It's a head scratcher.

339
00:09:57,880 --> 00:09:58,720
Gonna make your scratcher head a little bit.

340
00:09:58,720 --> 00:09:59,640
Yeah, for sure.

341
00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:02,080
So Donald Trump, who's never been known...

342
00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:02,920
Right.

343
00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:05,160
For embracing progressive ideas.

344
00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:06,000
It's not exactly.

345
00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:07,480
Or really having like a nuance

346
00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:08,720
or understanding of history.

347
00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:09,640
Not as strong as it.

348
00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:11,400
Has suddenly found an appreciation for...

349
00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:12,360
Oh, wrong things.

350
00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:15,200
A very specific aspect of black history.

351
00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:16,360
Right, this is unexpected.

352
00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:17,320
The 14th Amendment.

353
00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:18,640
The 14th Amendment, wow.

354
00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:19,920
And you're never gonna guess why.

355
00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:21,280
Okay, I'm intrigued.

356
00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:22,880
He's all about this 14th Amendment.

357
00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:23,720
Lay it on me.

358
00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:26,240
Because he wants to restrict birthright citizenship.

359
00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:27,960
Ah, I see where this is going.

360
00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:29,000
So the 14th Amendment...

361
00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:29,840
Right.

362
00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:30,960
Was adopted after the Civil War.

363
00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:31,800
Yes.

364
00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:32,920
And it granted citizenship...

365
00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:34,200
To all persons born of...

366
00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:35,800
To all persons born in the United States.

367
00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:36,640
Or naturalized.

368
00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:37,480
Naturalized in the United States.

369
00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:39,560
Including formerly enslaved people.

370
00:10:39,560 --> 00:10:40,800
A landmark achievement.

371
00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:43,000
Right, so it was this huge step forward.

372
00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:43,840
Absolutely.

373
00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:44,680
In civil rights.

374
00:10:44,680 --> 00:10:45,520
A cornerstone of equality.

375
00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:47,040
And, you know, making sure that everybody

376
00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:48,320
was equaling under the law.

377
00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:49,160
Precisely.

378
00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:50,880
But now Trump is trying to argue...

379
00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:51,720
Here's the twist.

380
00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:53,280
That it was never intended...

381
00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:54,120
Yeah.

382
00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:56,160
To grant citizenship to the children

383
00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:57,720
of undocumented immigrants.

384
00:10:57,720 --> 00:10:59,160
Okay, so he's basically saying...

385
00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:00,480
He's saying it only applied...

386
00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:01,320
It was only meant for no reason.

387
00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:02,720
To the formerly enslaved...

388
00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:04,000
Formerly enslaved people.

389
00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:05,320
And their descendants.

390
00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:06,760
Interesting interpretation.

391
00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:07,600
Yeah, it's...

392
00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:09,800
Not one shared by most legal scholars.

393
00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:10,960
Yeah, so I mean...

394
00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:13,120
The text of the amendment is pretty clear.

395
00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:13,960
I would think so.

396
00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:16,360
It says all persons born or naturalized

397
00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:17,360
in the United States.

398
00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:18,200
Yeah, that's the...

399
00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:19,960
And subject to the jurisdiction thereof.

400
00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:20,800
Before...

401
00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:22,240
Are citizens of the United States.

402
00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:23,080
Right.

403
00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:24,320
And of the state wherein they reside.

404
00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:25,160
Yeah, that doesn't seem...

405
00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:27,160
No mention of ancestry or lineage.

406
00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:28,280
Oh, I think a lot of...

407
00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:29,360
It's pretty unambiguous.

408
00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:30,200
We've all room there.

409
00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:32,560
It is, but that hasn't stopped Trump before.

410
00:11:32,560 --> 00:11:33,400
So, I mean...

411
00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:35,080
He's already issued an executive order.

412
00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:35,920
Yeah.

413
00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:37,880
Attempting to restrict birthright citizenship.

414
00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:39,000
And what happened with that?

415
00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:41,000
Well, it's been blocked by the courts.

416
00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:41,840
Oh, okay.

417
00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:44,240
So, the legal battle is ongoing.

418
00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:45,880
So, we don't know what's gonna happen with that.

419
00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:47,000
It's hard to predict.

420
00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:47,840
Yeah, but it seems like...

421
00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:49,280
But the stakes are high.

422
00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:50,120
Yeah.

423
00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:51,840
This could have far-reaching consequences.

424
00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:55,280
So, this is another example of Trump trying to sort of...

425
00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:56,440
He's trying to reshape...

426
00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:57,880
Reshape things and twist them.

427
00:11:57,880 --> 00:11:59,760
The legal and social landscape.

428
00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:00,600
To fit his agenda.

429
00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:01,960
To fit his worldview.

430
00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:02,800
Yeah, yeah.

431
00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:06,040
It's a reminder that these rights...

432
00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:06,880
Right.

433
00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:08,640
That we often take for granted are not set in stone.

434
00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:09,480
They're not guaranteed.

435
00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:11,320
They have to be constantly defended.

436
00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:12,640
Right, so it's like history's not over.

437
00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:13,480
Exactly.

438
00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:15,280
History's an ongoing process.

439
00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:18,240
It's constantly being debated, reinterpreted.

440
00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:19,800
And we have to be critical thinkers.

441
00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:20,640
Absolutely.

442
00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:22,840
We can't just passively accept them

443
00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:24,200
that are presented to us.

444
00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:25,040
The truth, yeah.

445
00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:25,880
We have to question.

446
00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:26,720
Right.

447
00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:27,560
We have to dig deeper.

448
00:12:27,560 --> 00:12:28,400
That to question assumptions.

449
00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:29,240
Exactly.

450
00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:30,080
Yeah.

451
00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:30,920
Seek out diverse perspective.

452
00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:32,120
So, before we wrap up today,

453
00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:33,760
I wanna talk about one more story.

454
00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:37,720
And it might seem a little lighter compared to...

455
00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:38,560
Right.

456
00:12:38,560 --> 00:12:41,040
Geopolitical chess matches and...

457
00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:41,880
Yeah, I'm being...

458
00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:42,960
Constitutional debates.

459
00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:43,800
Yeah.

460
00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:45,240
But I think it's really revealing.

461
00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:46,080
Okay.

462
00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:48,000
About where we are in America right now.

463
00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:48,840
Oh, right.

464
00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:51,200
So, remember how we were talking about Jesse Waters?

465
00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:53,400
Yes, the Fox News personality.

466
00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:55,880
And him bragging about the right-wing media machine.

467
00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:57,320
Right, and how they're running circles

468
00:12:57,320 --> 00:12:58,240
around everyone else.

469
00:12:58,240 --> 00:12:59,200
Yeah, and you know...

470
00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:02,480
Weaponizing outrage, simplifying narratives.

471
00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:03,680
And it made me think,

472
00:13:03,680 --> 00:13:05,760
is there like something fundamentally different?

473
00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:06,720
That's a great question.

474
00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:07,640
About how...

475
00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:08,480
I think there is.

476
00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:09,560
Right in the left approach.

477
00:13:09,560 --> 00:13:11,080
At a fundamental level.

478
00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:12,000
Communication.

479
00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:14,520
Yeah, their approaches to persuasion.

480
00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:15,520
Like why haven't we seen

481
00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:17,600
like a successful left-wing Fox News?

482
00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:19,160
Right, why hasn't that happened?

483
00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:20,840
You know, why is it that?

484
00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:23,280
Well, I think it gets to the heart of their ideologies.

485
00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:24,120
Okay.

486
00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:26,400
The right-wing media ecosystem thrives

487
00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:27,760
on emotional appeals.

488
00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:28,600
Okay.

489
00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:29,600
And that narratives.

490
00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:30,440
Right.

491
00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:31,280
A sense of shared grievance.

492
00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:32,120
Yeah.

493
00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:34,360
It plays on our fears, our biases.

494
00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:35,200
Yeah.

495
00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:38,240
Our desire for simple solutions to complex problems.

496
00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:39,080
Right.

497
00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:40,280
And that's very effective

498
00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:42,800
for a certain segment of the population.

499
00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:44,440
So, are you saying that the left?

500
00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:47,360
The left tends to be more nuanced, more complex.

501
00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:48,200
With their arguments.

502
00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:49,080
More data-driven.

503
00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:49,920
Yeah.

504
00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:51,560
And that doesn't always translate well.

505
00:13:51,560 --> 00:13:52,400
Right.

506
00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:54,640
In a media environment that's driven by sound bites.

507
00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:55,480
Right, and you know...

508
00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:56,680
And emotional appeals.

509
00:13:56,680 --> 00:13:57,520
Outrage.

510
00:13:57,520 --> 00:13:58,340
Exactly.

511
00:13:58,340 --> 00:13:59,180
So, it's a mismatch.

512
00:13:59,180 --> 00:14:00,000
In a way.

513
00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,960
So, the right-wing media is just breaching to the choir.

514
00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:04,480
In many ways, yes.

515
00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:08,400
They're reinforcing existing beliefs and prejudices.

516
00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:09,880
And the left is trying to like...

517
00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:14,000
And when the left tries to replicate that model,

518
00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:15,160
it often falls flat.

519
00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:16,000
Right.

520
00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:17,280
Because they're trying to appeal to a different audience.

521
00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:19,080
Right, it's like they're speaking a different language.

522
00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:20,160
In a sense they are.

523
00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:21,720
Yeah, so it's almost like we're...

524
00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:23,880
It's like trying to sell gourmet coffee

525
00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:26,360
to someone who only drinks instant...

526
00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:27,200
Right.

527
00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:28,440
And the two points are just two different.

528
00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:31,160
So, we're living in these two separate realities.

529
00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:32,400
In many ways, yes.

530
00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:35,120
Each with its own set of facts, values.

531
00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:36,640
They're like, we're not even...

532
00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:37,680
And that's a real problem.

533
00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:38,720
On the same page anymore.

534
00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:41,120
It is because it leads to polarization.

535
00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:41,960
Yeah.

536
00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:42,800
Division.

537
00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:43,640
Right, and it's hard to...

538
00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:44,480
It makes it hard to...

539
00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:45,320
Have a conversation.

540
00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:46,880
Meaningful conversations across those divides.

541
00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:48,160
You're not even agree on basic.

542
00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:50,520
When you can't even agree on a shared reality.

543
00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:51,360
Yeah.

544
00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:53,280
It's tough to find common ground.

545
00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:54,920
So, what's the answer?

546
00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:58,840
Well, I think it comes back to critical thinking,

547
00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:00,440
media literacy.

548
00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:01,960
Right, we have to be aware of the...

549
00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:03,800
We have to be aware of the biases.

550
00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:04,640
Biasity.

551
00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:06,880
The agendas that shape the information we consume.

552
00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:08,680
Right, and be able to evaluate sources

553
00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:11,440
and identify logical fallacies.

554
00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:12,280
And...

555
00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:13,120
That face the big.

556
00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:14,280
And the difference between fact and opinion.

557
00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:16,240
Right, we have to be active participants

558
00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:18,080
in the information ecosystem.

559
00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:19,880
Right, and not just passive consumers.

560
00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:22,480
Not just passively absorbing whatever comes our way.

561
00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:23,880
Right, we have to question things.

562
00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:26,120
And question, analyze, evaluate.

563
00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:27,080
Yeah, and engage.

564
00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:28,920
Engage in civil discourse.

565
00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:29,760
In, you know...

566
00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:30,680
Even when it's difficult.

567
00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:31,520
Healthy debate.

568
00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:32,680
Absolutely.

569
00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:34,440
Yeah, okay, well, I think that's a good place

570
00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:35,360
to stop for today.

571
00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:36,200
Sounds good.

572
00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:37,040
We've talked about a lot.

573
00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:38,360
And covered a lot of ground.

574
00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:40,920
Yeah, from Ukraine to Hamas.

575
00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:41,760
So, from...

576
00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:42,600
To the US Postal Service.

577
00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:44,120
Ukraine to Hamas to...

578
00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:45,400
The birthright citizenship.

579
00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:46,320
Right wing media.

580
00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:47,360
It's been a whirlwind.

581
00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:48,200
Yeah.

582
00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:49,200
But hopefully an enlightening one.

583
00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:51,640
It's been a lot, but I hope you found it formative.

584
00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:52,480
Absolutely.

585
00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:53,320
And engaging.

586
00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:54,160
A little bit.

587
00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:55,000
And maybe even a little thought provoking.

588
00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:56,280
Yeah, that's the goal.

589
00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:58,560
So, thanks for joining us and we'll see you next time.

590
00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:00,520
Until then, stay curious.

591
00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:02,280
It's a lot to process, for sure.

592
00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:04,280
It is, it's a lot to process.

593
00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:07,280
But, you know, speaking of complex situations,

594
00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:09,040
let's switch gears.

595
00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:09,880
Okay.

596
00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:12,520
And talk about the hostage situation with Hamas.

597
00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:14,000
All right, so the hostage situation,

598
00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:15,040
this is another one where...

599
00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:16,080
Right, this is another area.

600
00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:16,920
We don't have a lot of information.

601
00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:18,880
Where information is limited.

602
00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:20,000
Yeah, but what do we know?

603
00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:21,600
Well, we do know that Hamas

604
00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:24,400
has recently resumed hostage exchanges.

605
00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:25,240
Okay.

606
00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:28,040
And there are reports that more hostages and bodies

607
00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:29,920
are scheduled to be released soon.

608
00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:30,880
So that's good news.

609
00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:32,600
It is a positive development.

610
00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:34,040
But what's causing this?

611
00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:36,360
Well, that's the million dollar question, isn't it?

612
00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:38,200
Yeah, is this, I mean, are they genuinely?

613
00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:39,760
It's tough to say, for sure.

614
00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:40,680
Wanting peace?

615
00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:41,680
Or is there something else?

616
00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:43,480
It could be a combination of factors.

617
00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:44,320
Okay.

618
00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:45,560
Perhaps there are diplomatic efforts

619
00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:47,040
going on behind the scenes.

620
00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:47,880
Okay.

621
00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:49,920
Maybe some influence from Trump's tough talk.

622
00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:50,760
Right.

623
00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:53,280
And remember that Hamas has a history

624
00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:55,560
of using hostage releases.

625
00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:56,400
Right, yeah.

626
00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:58,680
As a way to gain concessions

627
00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:00,240
or international recognition.

628
00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:01,480
Right, so we can't get too excited.

629
00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:02,320
Exactly.

630
00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:04,400
Cautious optimism is probably the best approach.

631
00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:05,240
Cautious optimism.

632
00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:06,360
I'll have to wait to see.

633
00:17:06,360 --> 00:17:08,760
All right, and then back here in the US, we've got...

634
00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:10,680
Speaking of unpredictable situations.

635
00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:12,760
Postmaster General Louis DeJoy stepping down.

636
00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:14,840
Yes, that was quite a surprise.

637
00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:17,600
So what's the deal with that?

638
00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:19,880
Well, DeJoy's tenure has been nothing

639
00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:21,160
if not controversial.

640
00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:22,000
Right.

641
00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:23,920
You know, accusations of slowing down

642
00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:27,000
mail delivery, concerns about his ties

643
00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:28,200
to the Trump administration.

644
00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:29,880
Yeah, and then the process for selecting

645
00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:31,080
a new postmaster general.

646
00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:32,600
Right, it's a bit of an odd one.

647
00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:33,440
It's very strange.

648
00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:35,640
It's done by the USPS Board of Governors.

649
00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:37,520
Yeah, and there's no input from Congress

650
00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:38,560
or the co-presidents.

651
00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:40,440
Right, which has raised concerns

652
00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:42,600
about potential political influence.

653
00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:44,800
So, I mean, are we gonna see...

654
00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:46,360
Well, the big question is...

655
00:17:46,360 --> 00:17:47,200
It's not a loyal one.

656
00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:49,040
Well, Trump, trying to push for a loyalist...

657
00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:49,860
In that position.

658
00:17:49,860 --> 00:17:50,880
DeJoy's place.

659
00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:52,200
Yeah, so, I mean, we'll have to wait

660
00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:53,040
and see how that plays out.

661
00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:54,480
We will indeed.

662
00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:55,920
Okay, well, speaking of loyalists

663
00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:57,280
and controlling the narrative.

664
00:17:57,280 --> 00:17:58,560
Right, speaking of which...

665
00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:00,800
Let's talk about the right-wing media machine.

666
00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:02,280
This has been a hot topic lately.

667
00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:03,120
Yeah.

668
00:18:03,120 --> 00:18:04,160
And for good reason.

669
00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:06,040
Yeah, what's going on there?

670
00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:09,040
Well, Fox News personality Jesse Waters.

671
00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:09,880
Oh, yeah.

672
00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:13,120
Has been very vocal about the right-wing media's tactics.

673
00:18:13,120 --> 00:18:13,960
What'd he say?

674
00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:15,240
He's basically bragging about

675
00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:17,600
their information warfare capabilities.

676
00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:18,560
So, he's saying they're...

677
00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:19,720
He's saying they're winning.

678
00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:22,400
And that Democrats have no chance...

679
00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:23,240
Wow.

680
00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:24,640
...if they're playing by a different set of rules.

681
00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:25,880
Okay, so what rules?

682
00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:28,040
He described the right-wing media machine

683
00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:31,040
as a well-oiled propaganda operation.

684
00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:31,880
Really?

685
00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:34,160
Churning out stories and narratives

686
00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:36,360
with incredible speed and reach.

687
00:18:36,360 --> 00:18:37,200
Okay.

688
00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:39,200
He said Democrats are stuck in the past.

689
00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:40,560
So, are they stuck in the past?

690
00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:42,360
With their tiny press conferences

691
00:18:42,360 --> 00:18:43,800
and their nuanced arguments.

692
00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:44,720
So, he thinks...

693
00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:45,960
He thinks facts and logic.

694
00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:47,480
That facts and logic are useless.

695
00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:50,000
Are no match for emotion and outrage.

696
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:51,720
And he may have a point...

697
00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:53,040
Well, I mean, it is a factor.

698
00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:54,240
That mastered the art...

699
00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:55,200
Yeah, they're very good at it.

700
00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:58,560
...of crafting simple, emotionally charged narratives

701
00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:00,240
that resonate with their audience.

702
00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:01,080
And they've got...

703
00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:03,160
And they have this vast network of outlets.

704
00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:04,160
Right, they've got everything...

705
00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:05,160
Amplify those narratives.

706
00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:06,360
Yeah, they've got cable news,

707
00:19:06,360 --> 00:19:07,600
they've got talk radio,

708
00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:08,440
they've got...

709
00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:09,280
Social media websites.

710
00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:10,120
Social media, Stavia.

711
00:19:10,120 --> 00:19:11,160
It's a powerful machine.

712
00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:12,000
It's everywhere.

713
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:14,640
It is, but there are some cracks emerging.

714
00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:15,480
Oh, really?

715
00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:16,320
So, it's not all...

716
00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:19,000
You too....cable TV viewership is declining.

717
00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:21,320
Even Fox Music's audience is aging.

718
00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:22,160
So, what does that mean?

719
00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:26,160
Well, it suggests that the future of political media

720
00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:30,960
might not be these monolithic, top-down media empires.

721
00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:32,000
So, what is it gonna be?

722
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:36,040
Well, we're seeing the rise of independent blogs,

723
00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:38,120
podcasts, social media platforms.

724
00:19:38,120 --> 00:19:41,000
It's becoming more fragmented and decentralized.

725
00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:42,080
And is that good?

726
00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:43,120
It's hard to say.

727
00:19:43,120 --> 00:19:46,200
It could lead to a more diverse range of voices.

728
00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:49,280
But it also makes it harder to discern fact from fiction.

729
00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:50,120
That's true.

730
00:19:50,120 --> 00:19:52,520
And easier for people to find themselves in echo chambers.

731
00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:53,760
Yeah, so it's almost like we're...

732
00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:55,120
We're entering a new era...

733
00:19:55,120 --> 00:19:56,720
The Entry-E-E....of information warfare.

734
00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:58,920
...where the battleground is the digital realm.

735
00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:00,560
Yeah, it's not tanks and troops anymore.

736
00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:02,440
Exactly, it's information and narratives.

737
00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:04,600
And so, we need a new set of skills.

738
00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:05,440
We do.

739
00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:07,360
Critical thinking, media literacy...

740
00:20:07,360 --> 00:20:08,200
Scepticism.

741
00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:09,040
Absolutely.

742
00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:11,040
We have to be savvy consumers of information.

743
00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:13,200
Yeah, so how does that play into this story

744
00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:14,680
about the Washington Post?

745
00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:15,680
Well, this is a case in point.

746
00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:17,640
And their decision to reject this.

747
00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:19,240
They tried to control the narrative.

748
00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:20,160
Anti-Trump ad.

749
00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:22,040
And it backfired spectacularly.

750
00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:23,600
Okay, so what happened?

751
00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:25,640
They rejected an ad from Common Cause.

752
00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:26,480
Okay.

753
00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:28,360
Which criticized Trump's environmental record.

754
00:20:28,360 --> 00:20:29,200
Okay.

755
00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:31,360
They cited concerns about accuracy and fairness.

756
00:20:31,360 --> 00:20:32,200
Okay.

757
00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:34,720
But they had no problem running a pro-Trump ad

758
00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:36,800
from a fossil fuel industry group.

759
00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:38,160
Really?

760
00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:39,640
So it's a clear double standard.

761
00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:40,480
It is.

762
00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:43,200
And it raises questions about their editorial judgment.

763
00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:44,040
Right?

764
00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:46,800
And their willingness to challenge powerful interests.

765
00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:48,320
So what was the outcome?

766
00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:51,400
Well, their attempt to suppress the ad.

767
00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:52,240
Okay.

768
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:53,480
Actually gave it more attention.

769
00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:54,440
Oh, so it backfired.

770
00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:55,880
Thanks to the Streisand effect.

771
00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:57,040
Okay, the Streisand effect.

772
00:20:57,040 --> 00:21:00,640
It's a phenomenon where attempts to suppress information.

773
00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:01,480
Okay.

774
00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:02,520
End up giving it more exposure.

775
00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:04,880
So they basically, by trying to keep it quiet.

776
00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:05,720
Exactly.

777
00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:06,540
They made it a bigger deal.

778
00:21:06,540 --> 00:21:07,380
They amplified it.

779
00:21:07,380 --> 00:21:08,200
Wow, that's...

780
00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:09,360
It's a classic example.

781
00:21:09,360 --> 00:21:10,200
That's fascinating.

782
00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:12,840
Of how things can backfire in the age of social media.

783
00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:14,200
Yeah, it's like you can't control...

784
00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:15,640
You can't control the flow of information.

785
00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:16,880
The information anymore.

786
00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:17,880
Not on the way you used to.

787
00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:18,720
Right.

788
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:19,560
It's a different game now.

789
00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:20,400
Yeah.

790
00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:21,240
Okay, well we have one more story.

791
00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:22,320
All right, hit me with it.

792
00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:23,840
And this one I think is just gonna...

793
00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:25,000
I'm ready for anything at this point.

794
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:25,840
When you scratch your head.

795
00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:26,680
Okay, let's hear it.

796
00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:27,520
So Donald Trump.

797
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:28,640
It's all people.

798
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:30,880
You know, he's never really been known for...

799
00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:32,360
Not exactly a champion.

800
00:21:32,360 --> 00:21:34,200
Embracing progressive idea.

801
00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:35,680
Like progressive causes.

802
00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:37,880
Right, or really having like a nuance understanding.

803
00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:39,320
Yeah, not really known for his nuance.

804
00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:40,200
Of history.

805
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:41,040
Right.

806
00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:43,280
He has found a newfound appreciation.

807
00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:44,120
This I gotta hear.

808
00:21:44,120 --> 00:21:46,200
For a specific aspect of black history.

809
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:47,200
All right, I'm all yours.

810
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:48,040
The 14th Amendment.

811
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:49,040
The 14th Amendment, okay.

812
00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:50,640
And you'll never guess why.

813
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:51,840
I'm sure you're gonna tell me.

814
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:54,440
It's because he wants to restrict birthright citizenship.

815
00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:55,960
Ah, I see.

816
00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:57,640
So the 14th Amendment was adopted.

817
00:21:57,640 --> 00:21:58,880
Right, after the Civil War.

818
00:21:58,880 --> 00:21:59,720
After the Civil War.

819
00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:02,160
A pivotal moment in American history.

820
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:04,720
And it granted citizenship to all persons born.

821
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:06,160
Yeah, to all persons born.

822
00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:07,000
Or naturalized.

823
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:07,840
For United States.

824
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:08,680
In the United States,

825
00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:10,560
including formerly enslaved people.

826
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:11,880
A landmark achievement.

827
00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:12,720
Right, it was.

828
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:13,560
In the fight for equality.

829
00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:14,400
It was huge.

830
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:16,320
It was this huge step forward for civil rights.

831
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:17,760
A cornerstone of our democracy.

832
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:18,600
Of equality.

833
00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:19,440
Yeah.

834
00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:21,960
But now Trump is arguing that this was never intended.

835
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:22,800
Here we go.

836
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:23,960
To grant citizenship.

837
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:25,440
Okay, so he's saying.

838
00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:27,920
To the children of undocumented immigrants.

839
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:28,760
It was only meant for.

840
00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:29,880
He's saying it was only meant for the.

841
00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:31,040
Formerly enslaved people.

842
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:32,840
Formerly enslaved people and their descendants.

843
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:34,320
Interesting interpretation.

844
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:36,880
Right, and most legal scholars are like.

845
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:38,560
Most legal scholars would disagree.

846
00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:39,480
That's not what it says.

847
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:41,120
The text is pretty clear.

848
00:22:41,120 --> 00:22:44,280
All persons born or naturalized in the United States.

849
00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:45,120
Yeah, it seems pretty.

850
00:22:45,120 --> 00:22:47,040
And subject to the jurisdiction thereof.

851
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:47,880
Very for real.

852
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:49,280
Are citizens of the United States.

853
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:51,120
And of the state wherein they reside.

854
00:22:51,120 --> 00:22:51,960
Okay, so.

855
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:53,640
No mention of ancestry or lineage.

856
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:54,480
What's going on?

857
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:57,560
Well, Trump has issued an executive order.

858
00:22:57,560 --> 00:22:58,400
Okay.

859
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:01,400
Attempting to restrict birthright citizenship.

860
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:02,840
So is that going anywhere?

861
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:04,680
Well, it's been blocked by the courts.

862
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:05,520
Oh, okay.

863
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:07,320
So the legal battle is ongoing.

864
00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:08,200
But we don't know.

865
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:09,120
It's hard to predict.

866
00:23:09,120 --> 00:23:09,960
What's going to happen?

867
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:10,800
The outcome.

868
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:11,640
Right.

869
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:12,480
But the stakes are high.

870
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:13,320
Yeah, I mean this is.

871
00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:14,840
This could have major implications.

872
00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:15,680
This is a big.

873
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:16,520
For immigration Paul.

874
00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:18,640
And for the future of our country.

875
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:21,480
So it's another example of Trump trying to.

876
00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:23,360
He's trying to reshape the legal landscape.

877
00:23:23,360 --> 00:23:24,680
The legal social landscape.

878
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:25,800
To fit his own agenda.

879
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:27,120
To fit his worldview.

880
00:23:27,120 --> 00:23:28,920
And it's also a reminder that.

881
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:32,200
These rights that we often take for granted.

882
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:33,280
Right, we can't take them for granted.

883
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:34,120
Are not guaranteed.

884
00:23:34,120 --> 00:23:35,040
We have to be defended.

885
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:36,840
Right, so history is not over.

886
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:37,680
Over.

887
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:38,800
It's an ongoing struggle.

888
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:39,800
It's an ongoing struggle.

889
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:41,840
We're still fighting for the soul of our neighbors.

890
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:43,400
Constantly being debated.

891
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:44,240
Exactly.

892
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:45,080
And interpreted.

893
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:46,200
We have to be vigilant.

894
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:47,040
Yeah.

895
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:47,880
We have to be critical thinkers.

896
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:48,720
We can't just accept.

897
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:50,560
We can't just blindly accept the narratives

898
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:51,800
that are presented to us.

899
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:52,640
Right.

900
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:53,480
We have to question.

901
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:54,320
We have to question assumptions.

902
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:55,160
Assumptions.

903
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:56,440
Seek out different perspectives.

904
00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:57,480
So before we wrap up.

905
00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:58,800
I want to talk about one more story.

906
00:23:58,800 --> 00:23:59,640
Intrigue.

907
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:01,120
And it might seem a little lighter.

908
00:24:01,120 --> 00:24:01,960
Okay.

909
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:05,520
Compared to, you know, geopolitical chess matches.

910
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:06,360
All right, I'm.

911
00:24:06,360 --> 00:24:07,600
And constitutional debates.

912
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:08,440
Bring it on.

913
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:09,560
I think it's really revealing.

914
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:10,400
Okay.

915
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:11,240
About the state of things in America right now.

916
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:12,360
All right, lay it on me.

917
00:24:12,360 --> 00:24:14,040
Remember how we were talking about Jesse Water?

918
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:14,880
Yes.

919
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:15,720
The Fox News pundit.

920
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:17,800
Bragging about the right wing media machine.

921
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:18,640
Right.

922
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:19,480
The massacre of outrage.

923
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:20,800
And how they're just like running circles

924
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:21,840
around everybody else.

925
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:22,920
He was quite proud of that.

926
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:24,640
And it got me thinking.

927
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:25,800
Is there something.

928
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:26,960
That's an interesting question.

929
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:28,000
Fundamentally different.

930
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:28,840
I think there is.

931
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:29,680
About how the right and the left.

932
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:31,280
Their approaches are fundamentally different.

933
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:33,480
Approach, communication and persuasion.

934
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:34,320
Yeah.

935
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:36,200
Like why haven't we seen a successful

936
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:37,680
left wing Fox News?

937
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:39,800
Right, that's the million dollar question.

938
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,880
Why hasn't the left been able to replicate that success?

939
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:44,200
Yeah, why hasn't that happened?

940
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:45,680
Well, I think it comes down to

941
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:47,720
their underlying ideologies.

942
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:49,760
The right wing media ecosystem

943
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:52,600
thrives on emotional appeals.

944
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:54,480
Clear cut narratives.

945
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:56,960
A sense of grievance and outrage.

946
00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,800
It plays on people's fears and biases.

947
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:04,040
Their desire for simple solutions to complex problems.

948
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:06,600
And that resonates with a certain segment

949
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:07,520
of the population.

950
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:09,040
So are you saying the left is just.

951
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,080
The left is more nuanced, more complex,

952
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:12,040
more data driven.

953
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:12,880
Okay, so that.

954
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:14,520
And that doesn't always play well.

955
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:15,360
Not as good.

956
00:25:15,360 --> 00:25:17,520
In a media environment that's driven by.

957
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:18,360
The sound bites.

958
00:25:18,360 --> 00:25:20,120
Sound bites and emotional appeals.

959
00:25:20,120 --> 00:25:21,160
Outrage and the, yeah.

960
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:22,240
It's a different game.

961
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,240
So the right wing media is basically just.

962
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:26,320
They're preaching to the choir.

963
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:27,400
Preaching to the choir.

964
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:30,480
They're reinforcing existing beliefs and prejudices.

965
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:32,520
And the left is trying to, I don't know.

966
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,480
And when the left tries to replicate that model,

967
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:36,680
it often falls flat.

968
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:37,500
Right.

969
00:25:37,500 --> 00:25:38,960
They're trying to reach a different audience.

970
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:40,280
Yeah, they're trying to appeal to people.

971
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:41,400
Who aren't.

972
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:42,600
And a different style.

973
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:43,440
Interesting.

974
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:45,400
It's like trying to sell a or make coffee.

975
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:46,240
Yeah.

976
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:48,360
To someone who only drinks instant train.

977
00:25:48,360 --> 00:25:50,080
So the tastes are just too different.

978
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:52,200
So we're living in these two separate realities.

979
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:53,440
We are in many ways.

980
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:54,280
We can't even world.

981
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:55,120
And talk to each other.

982
00:25:55,120 --> 00:25:56,160
With different sets of facts.

983
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:57,000
Yeah.

984
00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:57,840
Values, narratives.

985
00:25:57,840 --> 00:25:58,680
And so.

986
00:25:58,680 --> 00:25:59,520
That's a problem.

987
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:00,360
How do we fix that?

988
00:26:00,360 --> 00:26:01,760
Well, it's a tough one.

989
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:02,600
Yeah.

990
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:03,920
I think it comes back to.

991
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:05,200
Critical thinking.

992
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:06,040
Yeah.

993
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:06,880
Media literacy.

994
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:07,720
Right.

995
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:08,540
We have to be aware.

996
00:26:08,540 --> 00:26:09,380
We have to be aware of our own biases.

997
00:26:09,380 --> 00:26:10,220
Oh, those are biases.

998
00:26:10,220 --> 00:26:12,440
The biases of the sources we consume.

999
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:13,280
Right.

1000
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:14,120
And be able to.

1001
00:26:14,120 --> 00:26:14,960
And we have to be able to evaluate.

1002
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:15,800
And gain information.

1003
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:17,200
Identify logical fallacies.

1004
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:18,040
Like logical fallacies.

1005
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:20,200
Distinguish between fact and opinion.

1006
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:21,040
Yeah.

1007
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:22,960
So basically we just have to be smarter.

1008
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:24,240
We have to be more discerning.

1009
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:25,080
Yeah.

1010
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:25,920
More critical.

1011
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:26,760
More critical.

1012
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:27,600
Engage in healthy debate.

1013
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:28,420
Absurd.

1014
00:26:28,420 --> 00:26:29,240
All right.

1015
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:30,080
Well, I think that's a good place to stop for today.

1016
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:31,320
Sounds good to me.

1017
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:32,560
We've covered a lot of ground.

1018
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,080
We have from international relations

1019
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:37,000
to Dometic Big Politics.

1020
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:38,320
To the media landscape.

1021
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:39,160
But Ukraine.

1022
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:40,200
To the 14th Amendment.

1023
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:41,560
Right wing media.

1024
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:43,240
It's been a whirlwind.

1025
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:44,080
Yeah.

1026
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:45,640
But hopefully an informative one.

1027
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:46,480
It's been a lot.

1028
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:48,000
I hope you guys found it informative.

1029
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:48,840
Yeah, me too.

1030
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:49,680
And engaging.

1031
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:50,800
And maybe even a little.

1032
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:51,880
A little bit thought provoking.

1033
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:52,720
Thought provoking.

1034
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:53,560
So thanks for joining us.

1035
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:54,400
We'll see you next time.

1036
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:55,800
Until then, stay curious.

1037
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:56,880
It's a lot to think about, isn't it?

1038
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:57,720
It is.

1039
00:26:57,720 --> 00:26:59,240
It really is.

1040
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:00,640
You know, and it kind of goes back to that.

1041
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:02,240
Remember we were talking about Jesse Waters

1042
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:03,080
and.

1043
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:03,920
Yeah.

1044
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:04,880
Embragging about the right wing media machine.

1045
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:05,720
Right.

1046
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,040
And how they figured out the formula for success.

1047
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:09,160
And it got me thinking.

1048
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:10,840
Like, is there something.

1049
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:11,680
It's a good question.

1050
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:13,520
Fundamentally different about how the.

1051
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:14,360
I think there is.

1052
00:27:14,360 --> 00:27:16,120
Right in the left approach communication.

1053
00:27:16,120 --> 00:27:16,960
Yeah.

1054
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:18,040
Their styles are very different.

1055
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:18,880
And persuasion.

1056
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:19,720
Absolutely.

1057
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:21,640
I mean, why haven't we seen like a successful left wing

1058
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:22,480
Fox News?

1059
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:23,320
Right.

1060
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:24,400
It's a question a lot of people have asked.

1061
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:25,440
Like what is it?

1062
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:28,640
Well, I think it goes back to their core ideologies.

1063
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:29,480
Okay.

1064
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,760
The right wing media ecosystem is built on

1065
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:34,160
emotional appeals.

1066
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:35,000
Okay.

1067
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:35,840
Clear cut narratives.

1068
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:36,680
Right.

1069
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:37,520
A sense of shared grievance.

1070
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:38,360
Yeah.

1071
00:27:38,360 --> 00:27:39,760
They tap into people's fears.

1072
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:40,600
Right.

1073
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,080
Their biases, their desire for simple solutions.

1074
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:43,920
Right.

1075
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:44,760
To complex problems.

1076
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:45,600
And that works.

1077
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,000
And it's very effective for a certain segment

1078
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:48,960
of the population.

1079
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:50,880
So are you saying that the left is just.

1080
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,200
The left tends to be more nuanced, more complex.

1081
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:54,040
Yeah.

1082
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:55,520
More focused on data and evidence.

1083
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:56,360
Okay.

1084
00:27:56,360 --> 00:27:57,200
And so that's.

1085
00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:58,520
And that doesn't always translate well.

1086
00:27:58,520 --> 00:27:59,360
Oh, to not.

1087
00:27:59,360 --> 00:28:00,200
To a mass audience.

1088
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:01,040
Not as.

1089
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:02,360
Especially in today's media environment.

1090
00:28:02,360 --> 00:28:03,200
Getting sexy, yeah.

1091
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:05,440
Which is driven by sound bites.

1092
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:06,280
Right.

1093
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:07,120
And you know.

1094
00:28:07,120 --> 00:28:07,960
And emotional appeals.

1095
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:08,800
The outrage and all that.

1096
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:09,640
Exactly.

1097
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:10,480
So it's almost like.

1098
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:11,320
It's a mismatch.

1099
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:12,160
There's speak style.

1100
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:13,000
In a way they are.

1101
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:13,840
Yeah.

1102
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:15,800
So the right wing media is just.

1103
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:16,640
Preaching to the choir.

1104
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:17,640
Preaching to the choir.

1105
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,600
Reinforcing existing beliefs and prejudices.

1106
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:21,720
And the left is trying.

1107
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:24,240
And when the left tries to replicate that.

1108
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:25,080
I don't know.

1109
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:26,320
It usually backfires.

1110
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:27,160
Yeah.

1111
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:28,520
Because they're trying to reach a different audience.

1112
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:29,360
Right.

1113
00:28:29,360 --> 00:28:31,120
With a different message and a different approach.

1114
00:28:31,120 --> 00:28:32,520
So it's like we're living in two.

1115
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:33,360
Two separate worlds.

1116
00:28:33,360 --> 00:28:34,480
Different sets of facts.

1117
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:35,320
Yeah.

1118
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:36,140
Values.

1119
00:28:36,140 --> 00:28:37,520
How do we even begin to fix that?

1120
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:38,880
That's the challenge, isn't it?

1121
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:39,720
Yeah.

1122
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:40,560
I mean.

1123
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:41,400
I think it starts with.

1124
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:42,240
What's the other.

1125
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:44,120
Critical thinking, media literacy.

1126
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:44,960
We have to be aware.

1127
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:46,920
We have to be aware of our own biases.

1128
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:47,760
Our own biases.

1129
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,320
The biases of the sources we consume.

1130
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:51,400
And be able to like.

1131
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:53,280
And we have to be able to evaluate information.

1132
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:54,600
And evaluate the sources.

1133
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,160
And figure out, identify logical fallacies.

1134
00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:58,000
Right.

1135
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,040
Distinguish fact from opinion.

1136
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:02,400
So basically we just have to be.

1137
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:03,400
We have to be smarter.

1138
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:04,640
More discerning.

1139
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:05,680
More critical.

1140
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:06,520
More critical.

1141
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:07,340
More engaged.

1142
00:29:07,340 --> 00:29:08,180
And engage in like.

1143
00:29:08,180 --> 00:29:09,020
Civil discourse.

1144
00:29:09,020 --> 00:29:09,860
Healthy debate.

1145
00:29:09,860 --> 00:29:10,700
Even when it's hard.

1146
00:29:10,700 --> 00:29:11,520
Okay.

1147
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:13,600
Well that's a great point to end on I think.

1148
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:14,560
It's a good takeaway.

1149
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:15,400
You know we've talked about.

1150
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:16,600
We've covered a lot today.

1151
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:17,440
A lot today.

1152
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:18,600
A lot of complex issues.

1153
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:19,440
A lot of challenges.

1154
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:20,280
Right wing media.

1155
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:21,120
A lot to think about.

1156
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:22,040
It's been a lot.

1157
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:22,880
It has.

1158
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:24,320
But I hope you found it.

1159
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:25,720
But hopefully it's been enlightening.

1160
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:27,400
And engaging.

1161
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:28,520
And maybe even a little bit.

1162
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:29,560
And maybe even a little bit.

1163
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:30,400
Of provoking.

1164
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:32,600
To get those critical thinking skills going.

1165
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:34,520
So thanks for joining us on this deep dive.

1166
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:35,400
Thanks for having me.

1167
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:36,240
We'll see you next time.

1168
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:37,200
Until then.

1169
00:29:37,200 --> 00:30:05,200
Stay curious.