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Welcome back everyone to the deep dive.

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This time we're going deep on something that can be pretty scary,

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you know, social engineering attacks.

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Yeah.

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We often think about hacking a super technical stuff like, you know,

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right.

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All that complicated code.

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Yeah.

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Algorithms, all that.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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But this is different.

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This is about how, well, how people trick us, basically,

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yeah.

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Using our own human nature against us.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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I mean, we hear so much about data breaches and vulnerabilities and systems,

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but, you know, so many times the weakest link is actually,

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that's the humans.

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Social engineering praise on our trust, fears,

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even just our desire to be helpful sometimes.

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Right.

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And, you know, I think before we jump into all the details of how these attacks

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actually work, yeah.

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Can you just give us like a quick definition of what social engineering is?

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Yeah, I think of it like this, the art of manipulation, but online.

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It's using deception and trickery to get into systems, information,

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or even physical places without permission.

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Yeah.

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The main difference from typical hacking, though,

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is that it depends on human interaction.

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Like it really exploits those psychological vulnerabilities we all have.

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Got it.

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So instead of breaking through like firewalls and stuff,

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it's more about tricking people into just kind of

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letting you in.

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Yeah.

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Exactly.

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So instead of forcing their way into a system,

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social engineers use psychology to basically

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get someone to give them the keys to the kingdom without even knowing it.

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Wow.

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And, you know, we have 14 different tactics outlined in our source material.

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It's a lot.

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Yeah.

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It's amazing to see all the different techniques they use.

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Right.

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Some of them, I think, a lot of people have heard of like,

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fishing.

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Everyone's got net email that says their bacon counts been messed with, right?

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Oh, yeah.

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Fishing is definitely a classic.

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It plays on that fear that we're going to lose something important.

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You know,

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the urgency makes us want to click a link without even thinking,

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which is exactly what they want us to do.

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Yeah.

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And they're even getting more clever, too,

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like with spear fishing, where they'll target a certain person,

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right?

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With really specific messages.

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Yes, spear fishing.

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It's like they've done all this research on you.

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It has.

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So the email seems totally real.

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It's not just email either, right?

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There's fishing, too, where they use phone calls.

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That's right.

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It could be someone pretending to be from like your bank or even text support.

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And they sound so real.

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Oh, yeah.

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That you just end up giving them your login information or even financial details

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without realizing.

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You're wailing.

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Yeah.

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That sounds kind of scary.

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Well, it's like spear fishing, but bigger.

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Instead of going after just anyone,

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they go for the big fish.

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You know, the CEO is executive.

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People with a lot of access.

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Right.

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The stakes are much higher.

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So they'll put more effort into making the scam look real.

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Wow.

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So we've talked about some of the common tactics.

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But the source material also has these really like obscure ones.

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Oh, yeah.

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Dumbster diving.

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Oh, garbage could be so valuable.

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You'd be surprised what people just throw away.

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Old documents, hard drives, even little pieces of paper.

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It can all have information that someone could use.

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Right.

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It reminds us that security isn't just about digital stuff, but physical stuff, too.

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It's like in those spy movies where they go through people's trash to get secrets.

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And then there's tailgating, which sounds like something you do at a football game, not a, you

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know, corporate building.

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It does.

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But in this case, it's about taking advantage of people being polite.

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Like an attacker will just follow closely behind someone who has access to a building,

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slipping past security.

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Without anyone noticing, it plays on our wanting to hold the door for others.

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And it shows how important it is to be careful even in normal situations.

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Could pro quo also caught my attention.

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It's kind of like a shady deal, isn't it?

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Yeah, I think if it like this, someone calls you, says it from tech support, and they

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offer it to fix your computer.

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But they want remote access or your login details in return.

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Oh, wow.

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They're playing on your desire to get things fixed quickly.

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Right.

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But they're really taking control of your system.

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Then there's the classic honey trap.

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I always think of those from spy movies.

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Yeah, me too.

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But I guess they happen in the digital world, too.

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Absolutely.

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Attackers make fake profiles online, usually using attractive photos and being super charming,

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get close to their targets.

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Once they've built that trust, they can start asking for private information, or even

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get the victim to do things they wouldn't normally do.

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Well, looks they're playing the long game, which makes it even harder to spot.

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It's not just about tricking people either.

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The source also talks about farming.

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Sounds like something you do on a farm, right?

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Not exactly.

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Farming is all about sending you to fake websites without you realizing it.

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Oh.

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They can change links.

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So even if the address in your browser looks good, you could end up on a

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site meant to steal your info.

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It's like a road sign leading you right into a trap.

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So even if I'm careful about what I click, I could still end up in the wrong place.

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That's scary.

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And then there's rogue security software.

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That one seems especially sneaky.

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Right.

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It's like the opposite of what it should be.

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Imagine a pop-up saying your computer has a virus, and you need to download the software

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to fix it.

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But the software actually gives you malware instead of protecting you.

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Oh, wow.

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It's a phrase on our need to keep our devices safe, which makes it extra tricky.

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Kind of crazy, right?

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All the different ways they can trick us.

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Yeah.

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Makes you wonder, why does this work so well?

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Right.

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Looking back, it seems so obvious sometimes.

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Why do we fall for these things?

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Yes, it just has not paying attention.

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Or is there something deeper going on?

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I think it's got to be more than just not paying attention.

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It definitely is social engineering works because it uses our basic instincts and those biases

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we have like pre-texting.

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Oh yeah.

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It totally prays on our trust in authority figures.

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You mean like how if someone's wearing uniform or more likely to believe them?

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Exactly.

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We're kind of programmed to trust authority, and that makes us vulnerable.

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There is this famous psychology experiment, the Millgram experiment.

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No, yeah, I've heard of that.

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It showed this perfectly.

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It's the one where people were told to give electric shocks to someone else.

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Right.

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They actually did it, even though they thought they were hurting the person.

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Wow.

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The person in charge told them to.

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I remember that it's crazy how strong authority can be.

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Right.

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Even when it goes against what we think is right, and that's what social engineers use.

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They pretend to be someone important.

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Whether it's tech support, the government, or even your boss.

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That makes sense.

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Then there's scareware.

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Oh yes, scareware.

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Plays on well being scared.

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Exactly.

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Like those pop-ups that say your computer is infected.

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Oh yeah.

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They make you panic.

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Right.

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And when we're panicking, we don't think clearly.

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It's like those home security ads that show someone breaking in.

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Right.

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They try to scare you into buying their stuff.

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Yeah, exactly.

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And then baiting.

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That one gets our curiosity.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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That desire for something free.

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Like finding a USB drive that says confidential.

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Oh yeah.

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You know someone's going to pick that up.

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Or those emails promising you exclusive stuff.

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Or a chance to win something, it makes us ignore the warning signs.

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Right.

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So social engineering basically uses our weaknesses.

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It does.

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Our instincts and our biases.

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Yep.

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It's like they're hacking our minds, not just our computers.

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That's a good way to put it.

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But you know, now that we know this stuff, we can actually protect ourselves better.

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Exactly.

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So what are some things we can do to be less vulnerable to these attacks?

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The most important thing I think is to check everything.

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Don't just believe things, even if it seems like it's from someone you trust.

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So like if my bank emails me asking for my account info, I shouldn't just click the link

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and give it to them.

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No, go directly to your bank's website.

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Okay.

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We're called them to be sure.

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Right.

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Same thing for phone calls.

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Anything that seems off.

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Makes sense.

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What about passwords?

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Oh, passwords.

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Everyone says to make them strong, but it's hard to remember them all.

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I know it is, but it's really important.

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Okay.

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Use a different one for each account and mix letters, numbers and symbols.

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Got it.

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You could also use a password manager.

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A password manager.

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What's that?

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It's like a safe for all your passwords.

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Okay.

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It keeps them all encrypted.

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So you only need to remember one main password to get to them.

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It actually sounds really helpful.

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It is.

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And I keep hearing about multi-factor authentication so that we're using that.

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Absolutely.

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It's one of the best ways to keep your account safe.

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Okay.

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So how to go work?

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It adds another layer of security.

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You have to give two or more things to log in.

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So even if someone gets my password, they still can't get into my account.

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Exactly.

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They also need your phone or email for that second step.

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That's good to know.

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What about those pop ups that say my computer's infected?

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Should I trust those?

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Be careful with those.

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Real security software usually runs in the background.

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Right.

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It doesn't use scary pop ups.

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Okay.

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If you're worried, run a scan with your own antivirus or call a trusted

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tech support place.

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So don't just download whatever the pop up says.

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Right.

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And speaking of downloads.

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Yeah.

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Be careful what you download online.

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Okay.

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Stick to sites.

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Yeah.

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And don't click links or open attachments from people you don't know.

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So it sounds like a lot of this is just being careful in using common sense.

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It is.

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But it's also about learning.

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Okay.

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The more we understand about social engineering, the better we can avoid it.

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So it's not just our own responsibility.

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00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:34,080
Right.

272
00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:35,280
Other stay safe, too.

273
00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:36,280
Exactly.

274
00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:39,680
We need to create a culture of security everywhere.

275
00:09:39,680 --> 00:09:40,880
That's a great point.

276
00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:44,440
Are there any resources you'd recommend like for people who want to learn more about

277
00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:46,240
all this and how to stay safe online?

278
00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:47,240
Oh, definitely.

279
00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:52,080
The cybersecurity and infrastructure security agency, CISA, has a great website.

280
00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:53,080
Okay.

281
00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:54,080
CISA.gov.

282
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CISA.gov.

283
00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:56,080
Got it.

284
00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:59,000
They have tons of info on social engineering and other online threats.

285
00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:00,000
Awesome.

286
00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:01,000
Hulling to that in the show notes.

287
00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:02,000
Perfect.

288
00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:03,000
And of course, they're always podcasts.

289
00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:06,680
It's the hours that deep dive where we go deep on cybersecurity.

290
00:10:06,680 --> 00:10:08,480
It's amazing how much we've covered already.

291
00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:09,960
I know, right?

292
00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:11,640
And we haven't even touched on everything.

293
00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:14,240
It really shows how big of a problem this is.

294
00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:19,960
But the main thing to remember is this, knowing more helps keep us safe.

295
00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:24,680
The more we understand these tricks, the better we can protect ourselves.

296
00:10:24,680 --> 00:10:26,960
It's like we're building our defenses bit by bit.

297
00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:27,960
Exactly.

298
00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:32,960
And by sharing what we know, we can help others build theirs, too.

299
00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:37,440
It's all about working together to stay safe in this digital world.

300
00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:38,680
Well said.

301
00:10:38,680 --> 00:10:42,360
We've talked about the problem, the different tactics, and even some solutions.

302
00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:45,200
Yeah, but this is an ongoing conversation.

303
00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:45,960
What do you mean by that?

304
00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:49,240
As technology changes, so we'll social engineering.

305
00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:51,320
There will always be new threats.

306
00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:52,880
We need to be ready for that.

307
00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:55,240
So it's not just about knowing what we know now.

308
00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:57,760
It's about staying informed for whatever comes next.

309
00:10:57,760 --> 00:10:58,760
Exactly.

310
00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:00,720
We need to be careful and think critically.

311
00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:04,680
So we can navigate this digital world confidently and safely.

312
00:11:04,680 --> 00:11:05,680
That's a really good point.

313
00:11:05,680 --> 00:11:10,280
I think that's a perfect place to end our deep dive into the world of social engineering.

314
00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:11,080
Yeah.

315
00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:12,480
Great discussion.

316
00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:14,120
Thanks for listening everyone.

317
00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:16,600
Until next time, stay safe out there.

318
00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:19,640
We've covered so much from fishing to honey traps.

319
00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:20,280
It's a lot.

320
00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:21,280
It really is.

321
00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:22,280
Yeah.

322
00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:23,680
And it seems like these attackers are always coming up with new tricks.

323
00:11:23,680 --> 00:11:24,880
Oh, absolutely.

324
00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:26,720
But the good thing is, so are we.

325
00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:29,680
The more we learn about this stuff, the better we can spot it.

326
00:11:29,680 --> 00:11:30,520
Right.

327
00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:31,520
And it's exactly.

328
00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:33,280
But it's a tough balance, isn't it?

329
00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:35,680
We want to be careful.

330
00:11:35,680 --> 00:11:39,360
But we don't want to get so paranoid that we don't trust anyone.

331
00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:41,000
Yeah, that's a good point.

332
00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:46,600
It's about finding that middle ground, being skeptical, but still keeping some trust.

333
00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:47,600
Yeah.

334
00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:49,280
We don't want to be afraid all the time.

335
00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:51,760
But we also got to be real about the dangers out there.

336
00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:52,760
So how do we do that?

337
00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:53,760
Yeah.

338
00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:55,960
How do we stay aware without being suspicious of everything?

339
00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:57,520
That's the big question, right?

340
00:11:57,520 --> 00:11:58,520
It is.

341
00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:01,480
It starts with understanding that we're all human.

342
00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:03,280
We all make mistakes.

343
00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:04,280
No one's perfect.

344
00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:07,240
So even if we fall for a scam, it's okay.

345
00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:10,360
Of course, we all learn as we go.

346
00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:15,240
The important thing is to learn from it and then tell others so they don't make the same

347
00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:16,240
mistake.

348
00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:18,600
It's like, oh, fool me once, shame on you.

349
00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:20,400
Fool me twice, shame on me.

350
00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:21,720
Exactly.

351
00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:28,040
We can all help each other stay safe by learning more, questioning things online, and not

352
00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:29,560
being afraid to ask for help.

353
00:12:29,560 --> 00:12:30,560
That's a great point.

354
00:12:30,560 --> 00:12:33,640
We need to work together to make the internet safer for everyone.

355
00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:34,840
Absolutely.

356
00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:37,880
Thanks for joining us for this deep dive and social engineering.

357
00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:39,440
It was a fascinating discussion.

358
00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:40,280
I agree.

359
00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:59,240
Until next time, everyone, stay safe out there.