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Yes, everyone that's listening, hi all you Liberty lovers and welcome to Fiendish and Friends,

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episode 8 where Jacob Stelter, founder and president of Goblins Cash joins us to talk

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about his platform Dex which is on base Binance Smart Chain and Smart BCH, talk about perpetual

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options and one of his favorite subjects AMMs and we'll figure out what actually is an AMM

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and yeah so hi Jacob thanks so much for joining us so yeah it's great to have you here.

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Yeah no excited to be here so yeah no AMMs are definitely yeah it's like hard to

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hard to grasp because there's tons of different curves there's the Uniswap V2 curve there's the

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stablecoin swap curve like curve finance Uniswap V3 is like a whole nother beast with concentrated

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liquidity and then like what I'm also excited about coming out in the future is Uniswap V4

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so like you've got hooks that are customizable code that's about to come out into the wild here

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soon so yeah no AMMs is definitely a tough subject but it's fun and it's worthwhile so.

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Yeah okay and I'm sure many people here will be interested to learn about that so let's

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let's take it right back right on a high level so before we go into AMMs which you know what

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Goblin's Cash is using like let's just talk about actually Goblin's Cash at the very high level

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like what is Goblin's Cash? Right right so Goblin's Cash so it first started as a reserve

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currency back in 2022 we forked the Olympus Dow I don't know if you remember the Omen like wonderland

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days of the 2021 bull run and then from there we were kind of iterating on our products we were

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trying to bring Perpetualist to Smart BCH and a couple of other things like one of the things

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that I'll get into like later on in the podcast was I was trying to bring BCH options like that

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was like one thing that on chain I was like the one thing that I saw that was like missing

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in the BCH universe and it just always bugged me that there was like Bitcoin and Ethereum options

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but there was never BCH options but Goblin's Cash right now is a meta dex that is trying to align

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different stakeholders so it's trying to align traders it's trying to align liquidity providers

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and then it's trying to align token holders together and that's what we're working on and

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that's what we're trying to build and like we hope to have that live and ready by May, June 2025

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and like right now we have a concentrated liquidity dex on those three chains and then

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we also have a bridge a hyperlane bridge which is permissionless so like right now you could launch

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you can launch for like any type of token that you want on Smart BCH on finance smart chain on base

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and like you can bridge it to any other chain in like a permissionless manner like it takes about

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like 10 minutes to create a route so like going back to the days where like where we had like

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bridge issues on Smart BCH with like Coin Flex and a couple other things like Potomac Swap and a

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couple other things like now it's permissionless and yeah. Which is the critical part right?

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permissionless this is where it all went wrong we're using Coin Flakes because this was a

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centralized permissioned bridge between the BCH world and Smart BCH which of course as we all know

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now you know this wasn't known back then this was there was an assumption made that this was

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not so easily essentially controlled so just to just to walk back a little bit so you you know just

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to sort of summarize there with what you were looking for you were trying to bring perpetuals

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and to Smart BCH you really you know what you saw was that all these other chains of BTC and Ethereum

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that they were offering options and BCH wasn't so you know in without getting lost in the weeds

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just sort of high leveled it just just explain to anyone like what is an option what is this

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why is this so important why why did you why were you so interested about working on bringing this

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to the Bitcoin Cash ecosystem? Yeah so an option at like a high level so it's a derivative so like

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anytime you buy Bitcoin Cash on like Coinbase, Binance any of those exchanges you're buying it

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at the spot price and then a derivative there's four different types of derivatives

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one you have futures the second derivative you have forwards so you can kind of think of BCH bull

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as like a forwards exchange and then third you have swaps swaps are a little bit harder

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like to understand but like you're just exchanging obligations with each with each other and then

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fourth is an option and basically what an option is and why I like it so much is it is it's a risk

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minimizer so it like it protects you with your AMM positions so like that's what I kind of wanted

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to bring on the podcast is like when people think that they're providing liquidity it's not like

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risk free it's not a free lunch in terms of like the passive view like you're you have a trading

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position and the trading position is concave on the graph so you're both you're short both assets

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and the liquidity pool and what an option does it's convex so you can put a little money down

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and you have exposure to either the upside or downside and and like you can get creative with

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option strategies which which is cool and goes beyond spot trading is like you can bet that the

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price will go up and down at the same time like with spot trading you usually have to pick a

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direction with options you can actually craft strategies where where you can trade something

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else it's called volatility and you can go long or short volatility so I like that it's not necessarily

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connected with the price the option and that like it can minimize it it minimizes risk in the sense

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like right like right now no one expected the bitcoin cash and ethereum to go down so dramatically

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and bitcoin passed 100 000 with like put options which gives you the right to sell an asset at a

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specific price like you would have been protected basically and with any amm position that you put

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on if you buy the offsetting options you can be protected so that's what I kind of like about

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I mean that's what I like about options I mean there's a lot of things to like about options but

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like one of them's just like the risk it minimizes risk like it minimizes risk but it's not free

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right like you minimize risk but at the same time you have to pay a premium to those liquidity

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providers or to those option sellers and yeah yeah yeah so thinking about like how what bch bull

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is offering which is quite well known in the ecosystem so from from sort of a high level

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understanding this is you know this is something that sounds similar to that in the sense that

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when you're when you're placing a long or you're shorting whatever asset it is whether it's bitcoin

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cash or bdc and then you're paying a premium right or getting a premium depending on which

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way the market sentiment is is there is there a difference there technically or

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um or is this sort of a similar sort of world of what you're what you're talking about now

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so um so like a forward and a future like at the end of the at the end of the contract so for bch

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bull I believe it's between like two hours and 90 days on any type of contract that you can open up

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um like it has to execute like and that's the nice thing too like with the security guarantees

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that bch bull provides but like for futures and forwards you can think of futures and forwards

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is kind of the same thing but like once that contract ends like it has to execute like you

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have to trade bch at that specific price and another thing that's kind of different with

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options compared to like forwards or futures is like you can't get liquidated so like the premium

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that you put down um is like your max loss like if you buy a call option and you put down like 0.05

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bch that's your max loss right there that uh what's bch trading out right now like 420 so if you buy

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a call option for bch for the next month at 430 for 0.05 bch like and bch finishes that say it

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finishes at 350 your max loss is uh 0.05 bch and with like futures and forwards and with leverage

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say like 20x to 30x leverage like you can be liquidated and lose everything like on a three

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percent move on a five percent move on a uh 10 percent 20 move um so like that's another thing

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to like about options compared to uh compared to forwards and uh futures but i'd say like options

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is kind of like the next iteration of derivatives like you need a futures and forwards market first

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before you can move on to options so i think bch has that we have like a futures and forwards market

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but uh besides uh bit.com which which i can't which um yeah i'm not allowed to use this based

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on kyc and their requirements and stuff but uh there's not a there's not a bch options place

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right now currently and that that's what i'm that's what i'm trying to build i'm still not there yet

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but um i mean there definitely needs to be a place where bch options can fit so um yeah sure

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where there's pieces missing within the puzzle this is where the entrepreneur the early person

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can come in it's hard work as i'm sure you're figuring out and then working um it's not easy

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um but it also gives you that first mover advantage so if you if you when that that

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person that sees identifies that missing piece comes in uh and manages to get it right then of

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course then uh there's there's a lot of reward there that's there's possible so um that's great

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so um so and how does that so i think we've got a pretty good idea of uh of options and and then

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where does the amm fit into this and and you know what does amm mean on a high level and and how

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how are you using that along with with the how do you want to leverage the amm to execute with

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options so like an amm like what i have at goblins cash cauldron.quest uniswap v2 etc um when that

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person puts on a liquidity position they're they're selling a perpetual so in uh on the

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in cauldron.quest at uniswap v2's case they're selling a uh they're selling a call option and

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they're selling a put option perpetually from zero to infinity um and in exchange for that

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when people trade on those specific pools they get those liquidity providers get a premium so

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so it's it's kind of like the reverse of it it's kind of like the reverse of options it's kind of

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like an incomplete options exchange if to make if that makes sense like when you first put on an

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options position you usually pay a premium to the option seller but in like liquidity providers

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case or amm's different types of amm's cases like you don't pay a premium until you put on a trade

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right that's what the yield that's where the yield comes from the trading fees uh that right

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that uh traders put on and uh and like what i was bringing up about like caudic and and

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like what i was trying to build on top of goblins cash uh was uh like their project recognized that

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it was like an options like anytime you put on a liquidity position it's actually an options position

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especially on uniswap v3 and goblins cash where you can put concentrated liquidity at specific

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price points on the curve uh but like one thing to know like one thing to know about like goblins

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cash and uniswap v3 that kind of like that kind of makes it easier to understand is that it's just

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like uniswap v2 except it's along a specific uh price point like it's the x times y equals k from

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420 to 430 dollars or 420 to 440 dollars so it's it's just like it's just like a full range

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liquidity decks but it's for specific price points it's that x times y equals k over a specific uh

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price threshold between like between whatever you want it to be between whatever price point you

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want it to be so um it's it's an options exchange like ams are options exchanges they've just like

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reversed how the premiums paid out so the premiums paid out through a trade versus through um through

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a user trying to minimize their risk but or speculating they could be speculating too like

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they could think like like right now people could think like bch could go to like 500 bucks and like

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they might want to buy a bunch of call options because they know it's liquidation free versus uh uh

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perpetual um the one thing i wanted to say about perpetuals too when i was like iterating with

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goblins cash um there's a certain and and i see that risk and that's like a risk that i take and

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accept when i use like bch bull gmx or any other platform is there's oracle risk so like when i was

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trying to build that out for smart bch like smart bch didn't have access to chain link oracles and

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that was like a huge issue and uh um and like most of the hacks and the stuff that you see in defi

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it comes from oracle manipulation um and that's one of the cool things about ams is just like the

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oracle is the oracle for an amm that's just based on the reserves of the assets right it's based on

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the uh invariant equation the x times y equals k so like you get the bch price of 420 dollars based

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on how much bch and how much usdt's and that cool so um yeah yeah

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yeah okay cool thanks so much um and so you guys started so say if i'm wrong um that in 2022 this

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is when goblins uh cash this is when the white paper is released if i remember correctly um

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that was also when i i think remember the dex was launched um if it was late no no no no no

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it was uh sorry i didn't mean to cut you off too fast uh no we were uh yeah no we were uh

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yeah no we were speaking of like mistakes and like trust and centralized and and you got to remember

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during this time period too like this was terry usd like terry usd hadn't imploded yet either um so

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um it was a reserve currency it was uh it was a reserve currency kind of based on own and time and

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and wonderland and gob was gob was backed by like one flex usd and it was a reserve currency

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usd and uh and like we sold bonds to create protocol owned liquidity and uh yeah it was just

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the yeah we backed our token with flex usd and it was just a mistake yeah it was just a very big

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mistake trusting uh centralized stable coins and something that the industry still has to deal with

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with like usdt and a couple of a couple other centralized stable coins out there like usdc

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like but uh yeah we launched as like a reserve currency and uh and yeah it didn't work out

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in the sense like yeah it didn't work out based on a couple of the decisions that we made and

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and uh yeah just a couple of the design decisions and backing our coin with flex usd was definitely

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not the way to go but uh from there we tried to iterate with perpetuals and then we ran into like

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the oracle issues with like chainlink and and uh um and from there like we pivoted to uh options

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and like we ran into like other issues same thing like oracle issues and like that's one of the

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duties of uh amm is like it it solves like the oracle problem um based on yeah it's also oracle

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problem because it's just math and it's based on like then variant curves and and uh and this last

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year i guess uh march uh april 2024 like we launched our concentrated liquidity solution

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on smart bch and then we had it and then we had our next problem right like how do you bridge

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how do you bridge and expand the new chains when when no bridge providers like layer zero or

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any of the bridge providers want to bridge on bridge to smart bch because of for like

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profitability concerns and so like we found hyperlane and we started working on hyperlane

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which is a permissionless solution to bridge anywhere um anywhere you want and we expanded

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to uh base and binance smart chain and uh we have bch over there on base on binance smart chain

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it's binance type bch and then over on base chain it's actually universal bch um and i've been trying

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for a while to get you bch to trade on aerodrome um haven't had much success yet there but like i'm

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trying to spread bch as much as i can to uh different evm names like that's the one thing

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that i see bitcoin doing better than btc doing better than bch right now is uh is it's on so

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many different chains like it's actually kind of like jumped from like from like the issues like

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yeah it has the one megabyte block but like that's what it like cb coinbase bitcoin is like the biggest

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is the best trading venue on base like there's hundreds of millions of dollars going through

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there and and wrap bitcoin and uh yeah like bitcoin's on like 60 not 60 that's probably

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small number but like 80 to like 100 different evm chains well like bch like we're still trying

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to get it to many different evm chains like we have cash tokens on like bch main chain but uh

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this is this is a this is a really great conversation in itself because this is something

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i think that there are two very distinct opinions i i've heard of this um that i uh about this that

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i think is quite valid and um and i'd love to hear your your thoughts afterwards about you know

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why what you see the benefits are so on the one side there is um the as you see it the the benefit

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of sort of being on as many chains as possible because this gives exposure so if there's tokens

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if there's bch on other chains then people are exposed to this they see this they're made aware

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of this and therefore they're more likely to to come on to actually the the bch network um which

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which seems to me is it sounds logical and the counter argument i'd also agree it sounds logical

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is that um the reason why btc went on to all these different chains was because of high fees

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originally and so it was actually basically so that it could still be used but the issue is with

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that the counter issue is why it sort of set btc doom is as the all the network activity moves on

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to other chains that means the security model is broken and at a certain point then uh the system

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sort of set itself up for collapse and the coins will be floating as a sort of a uh a sort of a

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pet rock as you like or you know at a certain point a valueless uh token um so yeah what's

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what's your take on those two views and why why what are you seeing is like the main benefits of

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um or do you see any additional benefits of having bch exposed onto other chains um

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yeah no i i get what i get what you're saying on that like uh um like even and like even for

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my case when like i started on the ethereum network like ethereum started to be broken in the sense

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that i was paying like 100 200 just to do a simple transaction and like i started going on to the

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layer twos um to like escape the high fees and it's uh and i mean i i would break it out in the

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sense of like there's one like the token itself uh bitcoin cash and then there's the network

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the bitcoin cash network and like bitcoin cash yeah like getting bitcoin cash on as many chains

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and exchanges as possible i think it's only like a net uh net upside like positive um

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but i mean there's like different architectures too that i would have to think through a little

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bit like evm's a different architecture than what's on uh btc and bch like with the utxo

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architecture that's a little bit different um but i i mean i get i get your point on that where uh

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i get your point on that and where uh where would i mean the ideal case like the idealistic case

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would be everything would be on like uh yeah like everything would be on bitcoin cash and

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and like it would all yeah it would all kind of like work out of the box in terms of defi

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but like defi right now like the majority of defi right now is on evm's um and solana and like a

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couple other exchanges or and a couple other different chains like uh um cosmos um there's

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a one called move like i i don't see any like downside to getting bch to as many different uh

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to as many different networks and chains as possible um because like yeah i i don't see it

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as and like the same with smart bch like i know some people like won't even touch smart bch like

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anymore like that i don't think it's mutually exclusive like i think you can use both like cash

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tokens on the bch network and like you can also use adapts and applications on evm and on solana

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and on move or on cosmos or any of the other aptos or sleet or any of the other places so uh

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yeah uh i i would break it out in terms of like the token versus the network like yeah i think

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the bitcoin network is broken for sure with like the one megabyte block size and and a couple

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a couple of the other things with the ordinals and and a couple yeah i would break it out in

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terms of the network versus the token um yeah yeah sure thinking of net like the network so i was

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actually looking at someone asked a question um about what is the state of smart bch you've

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already went into a little bit there so for for those of you that are listening aren't aware

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uh smart bch was a side chain that was set up for allowing an evm smart chain the daps the defy

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for bch and it back then the original idea was that it was going to be miner powered so it was

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going to be tapping into the security network of the bch model and it was all great it was all

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booming and uh and unfortunately the the link between these two chains was through a company

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called coin flex um which for there's a whole other episode on its own but essentially blew up

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and uh froze all of the uh the money that was on that bridge essentially uh destroying that bridge

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uh more or less between um between bch and smart bch and of course there were some some some other

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bridges that were set up to try and to link these two chains for that original plan

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um of of using and tapping into the bch and sort of being a permission this decentralized

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bridge between the two never um never happened as far as i understand now and do quote me if i'm

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wrong so i looked at the the total value locked smart bch um the total value lock has just

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plummeted it looks very close to zero now um and what i you know now you've moved on to other

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chains and i'm seeing your your um the liquidity on goblins you know as over the last month has

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been a couple of million um so is is is that where is the majority of that um liquidity coming from

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now is that still in smart bch or is that from from the other chains you're tapping into um the

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majority of our liquidity right now is on uh smart bch but uh um yeah like kind of getting into and

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the and and you're right in the sense that the tvl has been has been going down um but like there's

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different things that you can do to like so like you can't like not you can't but uh um like there's

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different things like that you can control and like can't control like in terms of like the sbch

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because like right now the sbch is on back just based on mark lamb and coin flex taking the

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uh 10 10 million 20 million or whatever amount of money it was but like there's different ways that

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you can minimize that risk through like amms like with liquidity positions and yield farming and with

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options like there's different ways to like there's some things like that there's some things like

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like the stuff that you can control like you can minimize to like risk to uh like risk reduction

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um but uh in terms of like rtvo like one of the things that i'm building right now and like what

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i see missing in the goblin's cash like ecosystem with uh concentrated liquidity is like we haven't

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aligned like all the stakeholders yet like we haven't aligned so we've aligned the liquidity

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providers and the traders uh together like if you trade on goblin's cash like the liquidity

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providers will be compensated and then the liquidity providers will be incentivized to uh

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to create like tighter liquidity but like we're missing the token equation from it so like right

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now we have a staking solution or like a part of the a part of the trading fees goes to goblins

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cash fakers but um we're missing we're missing more of like the alignment with new protocols

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coming on the smart bch and being able to bootstrap on goblins cash and we're missing

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uh more alignment with our token in the sense that like 100 like what arrow have you heard of

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aerodrome before and uh velodrome not before you'd mentioned it yeah no uh yeah yeah like they've

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they've created a system where like 100 of the trading fees goes to the token holders and the

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token holders they've solved the i'm pretty sure you probably heard of dow's like decentralized

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was autonomous organizations like and like one of the issues with uh dow's is just like you have

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passive holders and like on smart bch like you've got a lot of like passive holders now in the sense

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that like people that have like forgot about their positions or have like moved on to other things

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and like you have passive and and you have active holders and basically the system they created is

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like with the token um you can you can lock up the token and turn it into an nft it's called like ve

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arrow and ve velo and uh they reward like active participation and they kind of with uh trading

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fees from like specific pools well from specific pools that you vote on so like there's a lot of

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user engagement from that point of view um i don't know if you remember like the misplop days on smart

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bch but like there was always like the issue of like where emissions go um and that's kind of what

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of like that's what's solved with uh this system um the reason why like i can't put it out right away

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is there's issues with like licensing and stuff like that um that's why like it's in the may

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june time frame but uh like that's something i see that could be implemented on yeah on amms on like

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bitcoin cash like like liquidity providers are like like one thing that really uh put ethereum

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and defy in the spotlight um back in 2019 2020 and like put it on put it out to the universe was the

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the addition of yield farming from uh first started with compound protocol which was like a lending

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protocol and then it started with sushi swap but uh like there needs to be additional compensation

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to liquidity providers besides uh trading fees in order to like grow at like a rapid pace and like

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i have a farming solution right now but it's not necessarily uh it's not necessarily fully aligned

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yet but um uh yeah yeah but uh yeah that's what i'm working on right now um just trying to like

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make the decks better and like from there um start adding like i'm an active user on panoptic which

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is like the first uh dat with perpetual auctions um and the uniswap d3 uh ecosystem but uh yeah i'm

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just trying to make the experience better for like goblins cash users right now and like one of the

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things is like i need to align like all the stakeholders together um and that's what i'm

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trying to do like i okay i have a dex i have a bridge but like i'm missing the i'm missing the

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uh token component and uh um like rewarding more active participation and uh uh

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well that's actually one of the questions we had from an audience member was so just looking at

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um so the total value locked so you can go into like defile lama is where i went to get this

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statistics um so uh i'm just reading out from there so the the top of the peak was uh over the last uh

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sorry 2022 was just under uh basically 40 million now we're down to uh around about one million so

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that's you know you're talking about a 98 roughly uh loss of uh total market value of the smart bch

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chain but and the way you're talking it sounds very much that you're you're seeing a future

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um for this chain uh is that correct or is it rather that you know you're you see you see a

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future in other chains but you still hope for a future in smart bch or you know what is the

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outlook currently for that chain um in your eyes of course yeah yeah um i think uh

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um so like there's an issue right now with sbch in terms of it being like dpeg right now like it's

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about 10 15 uh percent off price right now um but uh i mean i see the future in other chains and i

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hope there's a future in like smart bch and like i'm working for there to be a future in smart bch

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um i've asked like the smart bch development team and i've asked from the chats just for like more

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transparency around the sbch supply um like you can see right now just on the blockchain or on

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smart scout about 49 000 to 50 000 bch is is with like sbch right now like they bought it back and

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i think they're trying to get parity with bch so like there's about 18 000 and 19 000 still floating

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around on the sbch network um so like i i see a future i see a future for the network uh i see a

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future for the network and like i've run validators and and stakers but um yeah yeah i just i mean i'm

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hoping for more transparency from the sbch side and i know not i was gonna say cheat fools uh it's

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uh bch fools i know he's been back recently on sbch and uh and like yeah i've got the hyperlion

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bridge connected to two different chains and like i'm researching stuff on on uniswap d4 like they

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uniswap's actually behind the scenes they haven't like published this i don't believe

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publicly yet they're working with hyperlion right now um and there's these i don't know how much

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you know about like erc uh erc commits and tokens but like there's a erc there's a new erc standard

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um erc 6909 that uh that allows for like resource locks that helps with like uniswap d4 and hooks

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and stuff like that and like i could see i mean obviously like the holy grail would be like

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a decentralized bridge connecting uh smart bch with uh bch and i think right now is

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is a is an okay solution with like the atomic slots uh right now between sbch and bch um but

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like i see i see a possibility of using those resource locks where uh i see a possibility of

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using those resource locks and from hyperlion to potentially connect to bch uh main chain but

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obviously there's like a lot of a lot of complexity and a lot of issues in the sense that you're dealing

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with two different blockchain like architectures like you're dealing with utxo versus uh evm and

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then uh yeah and then obviously security is a huge a huge concern uh especially after like coin flex and

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and uh no one needs to be going through that again all right or anything anything even close to that

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that is uh um which is why it's so important you know the the networks we build are sufficiently

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decentralized permissionless uh and we don't have gatekeepers uh and really you know i think it's

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always an interesting discussion you know it's not binary of course it's not perfect decentralization

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um it's definitely a sliding scale but in the case in the case of the uh coin flex situation

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that really was centralized as it could be so uh you know it shouldn't have been the lesson that

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we had to learn but it was one that almost everyone in the community did have to learn

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you mentioned that you know that you know the difference in the text you've got an evm based

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chain um on the smart bch and um of course bch is utxo and all of the development you're going into

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is in the evm base as i understand so maybe you know just from your perspective in a sentence like

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like what are the benefits from your perspective of using and developing on evm

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um the i mean you just get access to um so many different i mean so like in terms of bch like

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dfi right now i think we're in like the 20 uh we're in like the 2018 2019 stage like right of where

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ethereum was like i think it's a huge positive development with like the musd like musd i kind

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of put an analogy with like die dai back in 2017 2018 and cauldron.quest like i'd put like with

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unislot v1 unislot v2 but like with uh like evm like you just get access to so many different um

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like you get access to so many different uh dfi tools that uh you can use that your exposure and

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like uh and like the other thing too is like you get the i mean the one thing that's been like

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i'm actually excited like for like the exo wallet that's going to be coming out like soon

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i guess on bch like i mean from the wallet side like the wallet security is a lot better i think

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i think on evm versus uh uh bch like i've been a part of like tera usd hacks and like a bunch of

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different hacks on like evm chains and like hardware wallet is is like a must in order to

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like survive in like the defi ecosystem and like i remember like i got i think i got like a guru

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airdrop on on bch and i said it to my electron cache hardware i had a tent to my electron

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cache like hardware wallet and like and like i couldn't use it like like ledger is not supporting

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like cash tokens so like that that guru tokens just stuff right now and it's uh like for risking

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big funds and money and uh and uh yeah there's just like a lot of opportunities and like evm

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connects with solana now too um like yeah there's just a lot of there's a lot of daps there's a lot

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of opportunities and there's uh um and and in some ways it can be easier just like managing

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everything from one account versus like utxo it could be spread out between many different

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addresses and stuff like that so um yeah yeah sure so all of the tooling on the evm of course

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it's right you know much more rich and mature um and the simplicity of one account of course

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everything has its trade-offs um but for the simplicity of creating contracts having one

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account one address is uh um definitely a plus i'm also i think like many people are really looking

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forward to the exo uh dropping uh at some point onto the scene general protocols doesn't want to

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want to say uh when they're rather keen on just making sure that the product is released in a

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great form which i think is correct as you mentioned you know security is incredibly important

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um and making sure that that's all fleshed out talking about products i've actually got a fiendish

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shout out so i'm not sure if you're aware of this um jacob so it's um so we've got a couple of

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tokens that are associated with the platform and one of them is called emerald and by spending

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100 000 emeralds you get a shout out live on show and this is a shout out uh which is uh get a bunch

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of self-licensed cyberpunks working on your privacy area aria vpn underscore net it is a strict no logs

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policy zero knowledge architecture vpn provider not in any of the 14 i countries bch zero conf and

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xmr only 30 bucks for a whole year plan business solutions available so well well spent 100 000

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emerald there um yeah and and thinking about products and exo um so at the moment of course

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and i understand you know you've got a roadmap that's available on goblins.cash it looks really

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really interesting you can go into some of these points um and you talked about the benefits there

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of evm so when during when when xo uh releases on bch is and makes daps and app building uh easier

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safer more secure um is there a possibility that we'd actually we'd see yourself or your team or

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goblins cash uh looking into building on cash tokens and on the main chain bch network is that

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is that a possibility um yeah it it is actually like in my original i mean i've been iterating and

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and changing the roadmap a little bit like i actually have like i was starting cash tokens work

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um like starting in january to coincide with the may upgrade like the may upgrade on bitcoin cash

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like you have bigger you have bigger limits on vm and a couple of other things that would make

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building dex's easier and uh um like right now from like goblins cash side like we have our

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products like concentrated liquidity bridge hyperlane bridges and like there's something

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called erc 46 26 volts like i'm looking at that with panoptic uh for like the perpetual options

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like from our side we're trying to make it i mean as you kind of touched on earlier the tvl has

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taken a huge hit on smart bch and the users also have taken a huge hit like we're working towards

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like making our protocol more profitable and like uh and like one of the ways like you can do that

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is by like aligning uh all the stakeholders together which i i think there's some misalignment

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right now um so like that's what i'm mostly going to be working on uh aerodrome and velodrome and

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hyperlink for all of for all of this year but like as the protocol gets more profitable and

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and like i can expand like after i mean my next chain after uh i mean i'm on three chains right

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now like my next chain as as we get more profitable is uh bch uh main chain and and and like and like

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you uh and like you were saying in terms of tooling like also from like the developer side too like

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i'm not a developer in the sense that and i'm not a developer and and like there's tons of evm

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developers out there um in the wild but there's not a lot of utx of developers either uh right now

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but uh um yeah like i plan yeah like i'm following closely and like uh i'm nervous to use some of the

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00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:34,400
bch uh i mean i use bch bowl a lot but like i'm nervous to use a a couple of the other products

381
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:40,960
just based on like i i really need that hardware wallet for like safety and like secure security

382
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:46,720
from my side absolutely yeah what i always well i mean so i'm using um the cash check and deco

383
00:46:46,720 --> 00:46:54,560
system quite a bit um and uh and i'm using um you know hot wallets for that so i've got my my

384
00:46:54,560 --> 00:47:01,040
mobile wallets on um uh paytakers zap it for for cash tokens there's also cash in eyes for the web

385
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:06,480
wallet um and you know what i i think for me it's absolutely fine to use and you should one shouldn't

386
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:12,320
be concerned about using it but with an amount of money you are well you know you you are okay about

387
00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:18,320
losing um because you know you're in it it's all um you know first of all dealing with hot

388
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:25,360
wallets i think i think the risk is is overstated uh when you're using i mean i'm i'm using ios um

389
00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:30,800
but but when you come to signing contracts for example then of course what are you actually

390
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:37,040
signing and there's a lot of trust being placed on there um and so i do have trust in those people

391
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:42,080
that are doing it but do i have trust with my life savings no do i have trust with an amount of money

392
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:48,800
that i'm not willing to lose no and and then people want to gamble with that that's fine but

393
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:52,720
then you have to accept that that because you know that's the whole point of this ecosystem isn't it

394
00:47:52,720 --> 00:47:57,360
is that we don't we shouldn't be putting trust in people of course there is always some trust

395
00:47:57,360 --> 00:48:02,000
especially when building things up um but the point is we should get to the trustless and as

396
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:06,240
it's close to trustless as possible which is where you know the tools are going to be coming

397
00:48:06,240 --> 00:48:11,840
out from general protocols um if they if they hit the mark will be a huge boon for the development

398
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:17,040
community um in bch and it sounds like yeah with with your with yourself and i really appreciate

399
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:21,680
that so you're not yourself a developer you're an entrepreneur you have a good understanding of how

400
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:26,480
to architect and what you want to be creating but you would need uh developers in the ecosystem of

401
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:32,800
the expertise to to build it what what it is you're looking to build which of course um you know i'm

402
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:39,120
finding an evm developer um i'm sure it's not just easier it's also much cheaper right because of that

403
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:43,520
competition whereas if you want to build anything on bitcoin cash probably you know the kind of

404
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:47,920
people that you need they'll be very high caliber sure but they're few and far between and therefore

405
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:52,480
the the highest bidder wins and or the most interesting product so normally is going to

406
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:58,640
cost quite a bit more so uh but uh but hopefully you know you you may make i know you're staying

407
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:02,720
you're quite active in the bch groups and in development communities to make sure that uh

408
00:49:02,720 --> 00:49:07,120
yeah you stay in contact there because i know that you know from my experience with with many

409
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:10,960
people in the ecosystem there are lots of people that are sort of working on their separate things

410
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:15,760
uh but there are lots of people that are actually very excited about joining larger teams

411
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:20,080
and teaming up on on building things together and i think there's a lot of opportunity there still

412
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:25,760
within the ecosystem for people to to team up and share their skill sets to create a sum that's

413
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:32,160
greater or to create an output that's greater than the sum of the parts right right the right the one

414
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:37,520
thing i wanted to say i i know it's kind of like the side thing on it on the software wallets and

415
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:43,200
like the hardware wallets is so like yeah like so i've been yeah i went through like tera usd i've

416
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:49,440
been through like a couple of the 2020 hacks and and and like a couple of other things and like

417
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:56,000
what actually got me into like reading evm smart contracts and code is just like a couple of the

418
00:49:56,000 --> 00:50:01,920
rugs that i went through like i wanted to make sure like that would never happen to me again

419
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:08,560
and so like i wanted to study the code like in great detail to make sure like i know for sure

420
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:17,040
like what i'm signing and and stuff like that and like just taking 2024 and actually just recently

421
00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:25,840
like two days ago um in terms of like software wallets and hardware wallets um like the i mean

422
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:32,240
i experienced the radiant capital hack like firsthand uh it's a lending platform like

423
00:50:32,240 --> 00:50:40,400
hundred million dollars or so on like finance smart chain arbitrum etc and like uh they were

424
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:47,360
an ava fork and they had some admin functions and basically these north korean hackers were

425
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:54,560
able to like socially engineer and socially engineer the team and were able to were able

426
00:50:54,560 --> 00:51:01,760
to upgrade the contracts and and take millions and millions of dollars and and uh i had an approval

427
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:09,360
open on one of my usdc uh wallets and i don't know i lost like 100 200 bucks like it wasn't that bad

428
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:16,960
at the end of the day but like from like these types of hacks with like social engineering and

429
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:22,080
north korean hackers and like the one that happened two days ago like kind of a similar issue with

430
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:29,280
like upgradable contracts uh like i mean there's people out there that are willing to like socially

431
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:36,560
engineer and like sophisticated attacks especially like from like north korean hackers to try to take

432
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:45,040
to try to take your uh money and like from like a founder president and like a dap side like the

433
00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:53,280
more decentralized you can make your dap uh and like and goblins cash and goblins cash fork and

434
00:51:53,280 --> 00:52:02,880
uniswap v3 and hyperlane like it's it's permissionless like it's immutable uh uh too and like it's very

435
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:09,680
decentralized and like as i work on aerodrome i'll try to make it more as decentralized as possible

436
00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:16,160
because like that lowers the risk too from the dap side and the founder side like if you can make it

437
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:24,400
as decentralized and and permissionless as possible like that lowers your risk for those types of

438
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:30,560
attacks where like people are impersonating other people like you probably see that all the time

439
00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:37,680
where like people may be like impersonating you and like trying to get people to send money to uh

440
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:43,360
yeah yeah so yeah well this this happened recently to justin bonds uh you know someone in the

441
00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:50,640
bitcoin cash community was trying to equate um the danger of just going onto a wrong website and sort

442
00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:56,400
of assuming that it was like something nefarious was being downloaded and equating that to

443
00:52:56,400 --> 00:53:01,200
installing uh software that you don't know but actually if you look at that case it was again

444
00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:06,800
it was a social attack it was you know he was um he was given a link by someone he trusted didn't

445
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:12,960
check it and went on to a fake website where he gave in all of his login information so um you know

446
00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:17,280
with the social aspect the social attack you'll never get away from that which is why the code

447
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:24,320
uh needs to be so robust that even if the person is is captured or you know you know somehow um that

448
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:28,080
the network withstands and i often think about this when using you know because i trust many

449
00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:32,320
people in the ecosystem rightly or wrongly but i i because i know them but because i think well

450
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:35,600
there's they've got a lot of money riding on this so that's you know and that's a good reason to

451
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:41,120
trust someone that if if they lose the trust they lose money right um but at the same time one says

452
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:48,960
enough money on the table then you know every single person is uh if they're not um going to

453
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:53,200
crack themselves that but they become a target for someone to crack them and that can happen

454
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:56,720
anywhere just i just want to pull back one of the points you mentioned this a few times

455
00:53:57,360 --> 00:54:02,000
about goblin's cash and i just want to pick this up so um you've mentioned about you know it's

456
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:06,160
running on concentrated liquidity and i'd just like to delve into that what is actually meant

457
00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:11,120
here by concentrated liquidity is this like the opposite of what cauldron's doing of its

458
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:18,880
micropool approach or is it something else entirely so like cauldron dot plus uniswap p2

459
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:27,520
uniswap p1 um it's on it's on that uh invariant curve x times y equals k like k is a constant so

460
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:36,720
you pick the constant say like say a thousand and based on x and y like from buying and selling like

461
00:54:36,720 --> 00:54:42,720
that's how you get a price and uh uh like not to make it too complicated the difference between

462
00:54:42,720 --> 00:54:52,720
concentrated liquidity and uh and uniswap p2 is like uh that x times y equals k doesn't happen

463
00:54:52,720 --> 00:54:59,200
from zero to infinity it happens between a price point that you want it to happen to that like

464
00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:04,480
where you want to buy or sell like so like right now i don't know where bch is exactly trading at

465
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:11,760
i think it's like 430 or 420 something like that like say you bought bch at 420 and you wanted to

466
00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:19,760
sell uh and you wanted to have like a limit order to sell at like 440 or 450 bucks like you could

467
00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:30,080
come to goblins cash and make a liquidity position between 440 and 450 dollars and uh once bitcoin

468
00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:39,360
cash gets to 480 bucks like that liquidity position will be entirely uh usdt it'll be

469
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:47,920
entirely a stable coin or if you think bitcoin cash is going to uh drop by like 20 to 30 percent

470
00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:59,520
like you could provide a usdt between uh between 300 300 300 and 320 dollars and say bitcoin cash

471
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:08,240
goes down to 250 bucks like that liquidity position will be entirely uh bch so uh yeah

472
00:56:08,240 --> 00:56:12,000
that makes a lot of sense that's a great tool so that means then you could sort of specify a

473
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:17,200
range where you think the uh where you think it's going to go but then beneath that range it won't

474
00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:22,080
continue so uh so you know so you're not all of a sudden gonna wake up and realize oh hang on a

475
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:27,360
minute i've got all of the the wrong thing either the token or the coin you're you were trading in

476
00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:35,520
or or usdt right right right exactly that's something i would i would personally love to

477
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:43,200
see that on on bitcoin cash i think a cold index is amazing but of course um it's uh you you can't

478
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:49,920
set any sort of price or range um which which for me as a tradfi coming from the tradfi things

479
00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:55,920
where i'm you know buying and and selling um my bch don't shoot me but it's on exchanges right

480
00:56:55,920 --> 00:57:00,720
of course again off those exchanges straight away as you all should do um but all the tool kits you

481
00:57:00,720 --> 00:57:07,360
got there to be able to set some very specific pricing um and uh when it hits all ranges where

482
00:57:07,360 --> 00:57:13,440
it should where it should trigger at least the the order um these are sort of tools that the people

483
00:57:13,440 --> 00:57:20,640
are used to and they serve great purposes so um so yeah thinking about so i can see the time um and

484
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:26,720
try and keep these episodes relatively on time so that we uh keep things interesting for the for the

485
00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:31,680
listener but um but you know it's okay if we can go over if you have some some time and also if

486
00:57:31,680 --> 00:57:37,120
anyone in the audience has a question for jacob uh i would like to say something you know relevant

487
00:57:37,120 --> 00:57:44,240
to this topic then please feel free to grab the mic uh and you'll get it um but um yeah so and

488
00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:51,920
you're in the community and you're keeping quite a lot of uh you know activity uh contact um

489
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:57,200
where is there any chance so where are you based if i'm allowed to ask you know do you can just

490
00:57:57,200 --> 00:58:00,480
give the continent as a sort of rough rough estimate because what i'd love to know is

491
00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:06,880
will we be seeing you know all the builders and entrepreneurs of bch and certainly a lot of the

492
00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:15,200
fans are at bch bliss in may is there any chance we'll see the goblin goblin cash team or yourself

493
00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:23,600
there uh yeah no it's definitely possible uh i'm based in the usa uh texas texas area oh wow it's

494
00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:30,720
really early for you now we could have made this later and i just i just assumed in europe yeah

495
00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:38,000
okay well thanks for joining us so early good morning yes good morning good morning uh yeah so

496
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:47,200
yeah i'm in us texas area um where where is exactly is bch bliss again was it what uh what

497
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:52,880
country was it in again i forgot exactly it's it's in slovenia slovenia so it's the capital city of

498
00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:59,440
slovenia lubiana um which uh has because it's the capital city has uh basically the conference

499
00:58:59,440 --> 00:59:03,760
is if i remember correctly like 20 minutes 30 minute drive away from that airport so it has

500
00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:10,960
pretty good connections yeah no i'd love to go and uh yeah no i follow i listen to the bch podcast

501
00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:17,040
a lot and like i know he talked i think he talks about bcx plus too and uh i think you have to buy

502
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:24,000
like an nft right off of like tap swap to go you you you do so the tickets are made available next

503
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:30,400
week on the 15th um and it'll be the same as last year from what i understand so um i don't i don't

504
00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:33,520
know if i'm allowed to say the ticket price right now so i'm going to leave that for next week

505
00:59:34,080 --> 00:59:40,880
but the tickets will be priced in bch and that you go on to tap swap you can use your um cash

506
00:59:40,880 --> 00:59:47,600
tokens aware wallet so that you know if you're using um electron cash on um with a hardware

507
00:59:47,600 --> 00:59:54,240
wallet i mean you know you could you could set up a um i'm not sure how that works with a hardware

508
00:59:54,240 --> 01:00:00,720
wallet to be honest but certainly you can set up a new wallet on um on the computer uh to be able

509
01:00:00,720 --> 01:00:07,760
to purchase that um that that nft and so that the idea behind this then is you don't have to give

510
01:00:07,760 --> 01:00:13,200
your name your address your anything to sort of connect you um to real life so it allows people

511
01:00:13,200 --> 01:00:19,600
to be able to come to that conference anonymously um and join in with that but if you if you were

512
01:00:20,320 --> 01:00:24,720
able to come it'd be really fantastic so i mean i was there last year i don't know if you saw

513
01:00:25,360 --> 01:00:32,320
um any of the the presentation so i was uh actually the final presentation of an amazing

514
01:00:32,320 --> 01:00:37,520
two days so the organizers did a fantastic job um and the feedback was very positive from all the

515
01:00:37,520 --> 01:00:41,680
people that went there that i heard of that they had a great time it was really informative but

516
01:00:41,680 --> 01:00:46,400
also i think one of the nicest comments i had was from someone who's who's in the community

517
01:00:47,520 --> 01:00:53,120
from from israel was uh that uh this person is um

518
01:00:56,320 --> 01:01:02,640
like most bch's i guess more more introverted than extroverted and and wasn't the most happy

519
01:01:02,640 --> 01:01:07,760
or comfortable in social scenes and i said well i said to this person well you've just flown across

520
01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:13,520
the world to spend some time with you know like 60 random people as it isn't that like they could

521
01:01:13,520 --> 01:01:17,840
be opposite yeah you're right there actually and how do you feel he says i feel pretty comfortable

522
01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:23,120
actually i feel more comfortable than i normally feel is that right okay uh so i think that was a

523
01:01:23,120 --> 01:01:28,400
great thumbs up to the sort of uh the sort of people the sort of vibe that the conference gave

524
01:01:28,400 --> 01:01:34,720
so uh if you can make it uh that'd be fantastic you'd be highly welcomed um and it's three days

525
01:01:34,720 --> 01:01:41,040
three days thanks i mean what's really good is um so i mean um you can pay for the hotel as is

526
01:01:41,040 --> 01:01:45,520
advised it's a mario hotel so it's very nice you don't have to stay there of course but uh the mario

527
01:01:45,520 --> 01:01:52,080
they accept bch directly so um so you can actually pay for the room in bch and all night was so great

528
01:01:52,080 --> 01:01:58,240
there's all these bch's and a lot of people in the community a lot of other well-known developers

529
01:01:58,240 --> 01:02:05,760
and uh and we were buying our beers over the counter in bitcoin cash and what was so funny is

530
01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:10,240
the first time we tried to pay the the bartender was very like skeptical it's like no no you accept

531
01:02:10,240 --> 01:02:15,520
it and after the on the second night i remember having a conversation with it was it was wonderful

532
01:02:15,520 --> 01:02:20,560
she goes oh do you know what like this is amazing this is so much better bitcoin cash is so much

533
01:02:20,560 --> 01:02:25,280
better than using credit cards and i genuinely thought she was just bullshitting is ah right

534
01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:29,440
yeah sure and he goes no no seriously i'm being i'm being for real okay okay why is that because

535
01:02:29,440 --> 01:02:35,040
it's so much quicker okay really and because yeah look and then we did we did a test and basically

536
01:02:35,040 --> 01:02:40,560
paying with the credit card uh took i don't know if it was like 20 seconds or 30 seconds to

537
01:02:40,560 --> 01:02:46,720
to go through we're playing with bch it was instant yeah and i thought wow you know so not only

538
01:02:46,720 --> 01:02:51,760
having this conference here we're putting bch into the ecosystem of reminding um these these

539
01:02:51,760 --> 01:02:55,280
venue holders that they can actually accept bitcoin cash because there's this there's this thing out

540
01:02:55,280 --> 01:03:00,640
there i think it's called elepe remember correctly uh part of the pos system so they can accept credit

541
01:03:00,640 --> 01:03:07,120
cards they can also accept bitcoin cash and uh not only that they they were used to this but then

542
01:03:07,120 --> 01:03:11,920
afterwards they're actually talking about how much better it was than than traditional payment

543
01:03:11,920 --> 01:03:17,440
systems so that was fun that was a good time you know like anytime i try to onboard people to bitcoin

544
01:03:17,440 --> 01:03:23,200
cash like i know it i know it's not necessarily open source but i do love the wallet the bitcoin

545
01:03:23,200 --> 01:03:31,600
dot com wallet with bch like i usually uh yeah i usually show them that wallet for like onboarding

546
01:03:31,600 --> 01:03:39,600
and and like i like the easy use with the bitcoin dot com bch wallet and uh yeah like that's that's

547
01:03:39,600 --> 01:03:45,920
my main mobile wallet like i don't have a lot of like metamask or or rabbi wallet or evm wallets

548
01:03:45,920 --> 01:03:55,600
on my mobile phone like bitcoin cash is still the best i think like on mobile and uh um yeah it's

549
01:03:55,600 --> 01:04:01,680
kind of interesting especially like in the u.s like i saw like i i buy a lot of like gift cards

550
01:04:01,680 --> 01:04:07,920
with bitcoin cash and i saw like uh bitpay uh one of the payment service providers like they're

551
01:04:07,920 --> 01:04:14,320
starting to do like kyc now just for like simple purchases so like it's starting to get interesting

552
01:04:14,320 --> 01:04:22,720
in terms of like how to use and like spend bitcoin cash and uh well yeah yeah no definitely and

553
01:04:22,720 --> 01:04:27,840
that's also something that's changed a lot like in 2000 like when you started building goblin's cash

554
01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:35,520
um the bitcoin dot com wallet was pretty much the the only wallet so you had flowy pay uh but

555
01:04:35,520 --> 01:04:40,960
you know i know one that i knew i used this it was really it was bitcoin dot com uh if you you know

556
01:04:40,960 --> 01:04:45,840
if you were using that for payments um and that and that was it you know um for your for your

557
01:04:45,840 --> 01:04:54,960
mobile and today or since then um because of the sort of pivot away uh or yeah or the the efforts

558
01:04:54,960 --> 01:05:00,720
you know away from from bitcoin cash uh towards other chains there's been an explosion um in that

559
01:05:00,720 --> 01:05:05,920
scene so i can highly you know and i do agree with your concerns here and your desire for using

560
01:05:05,920 --> 01:05:11,280
hardware wallets and you know for everything that you've experienced um i i can really only understand

561
01:05:11,280 --> 01:05:16,080
too well why you are extra cautious and it's correct to be and i really advise everyone in

562
01:05:16,080 --> 01:05:22,560
the ecosystem to to be rather skeptical of of you know rather than just accepting and trusting um

563
01:05:22,560 --> 01:05:26,400
but with uh you know certainly a small amount you know a couple of bucks just giving out that

564
01:05:26,400 --> 01:05:31,360
ecosystem a try you know downloading it whether it's paytac or zap it to be able to access the

565
01:05:31,360 --> 01:05:36,240
cash tokens ecosystem i really would advise for yourself and anyone listening to give it a try

566
01:05:37,360 --> 01:05:42,720
and if you if you do if you get yourself a wallet ping me your cash tokens id and r

567
01:05:43,520 --> 01:05:49,520
send over some some tokens to to your account just to just you know if nothing else just so

568
01:05:49,520 --> 01:05:54,240
you can say hey that was my that was my remembrance my memorabilia for coming up

569
01:05:54,240 --> 01:06:00,080
English and friends um but it is it is worth you know having a look at what's available now

570
01:06:00,080 --> 01:06:05,440
with paytac for example which is my currently used cash tokens wallet i've got my blitz tickets from

571
01:06:05,440 --> 01:06:13,360
last year um in there uh and uh and also for the for the next for this year's conference too and

572
01:06:13,360 --> 01:06:19,440
it's really nice to be able to see you know i'm not a huge nft fan um but but the idea of doing

573
01:06:19,440 --> 01:06:24,320
tickets and and you know something that has value over nfts i think is just brilliant this is fantastic

574
01:06:24,320 --> 01:06:30,000
and and i can hold that as a memento and see it whenever i want within with on my phone which is

575
01:06:30,000 --> 01:06:36,640
which is great very different uh you know bitcoin.com one i i agree with you the bitcoin wallet is

576
01:06:36,640 --> 01:06:42,560
still very smooth and for showing onboarding new people it has you know it just has that slickness

577
01:06:42,560 --> 01:06:46,880
which which helps and professional look but when when interacting with the cash token system

578
01:06:46,880 --> 01:06:52,000
unfortunately there hasn't been any development there yet so when corbin finally pulls his uh

579
01:06:52,000 --> 01:06:57,920
his finger out uh and sees the benefits of doing so it'd be exciting to see what what their wallet

580
01:06:57,920 --> 01:07:04,240
does uh and how it incorporates cash tokens yeah maybe maybe one day we'll see goblins goblins

581
01:07:04,240 --> 01:07:12,800
cash on there too you know we think so for example yeah i'll look at pay i i downloaded paytac at one

582
01:07:12,800 --> 01:07:18,960
point i like the sense that i remember using it like i like that they had a bch full integrative

583
01:07:18,960 --> 01:07:24,880
i think they had the usd market integrated i don't know if they still have it but i remember putting

584
01:07:24,880 --> 01:07:32,640
on a bch bowl uh bch bowl position through paytaca and i like that a lot being able to do that like

585
01:07:32,640 --> 01:07:43,600
inside the wallet um so um yeah yeah i'll have to yeah i'll have to i'll have to put like one of my

586
01:07:43,600 --> 01:07:51,600
software wallets up like uh i have like a flip starter wallet on electron cash uh that i've used

587
01:07:51,600 --> 01:07:57,520
in the past that i can can kind of re-engage i know there's like a bunch of interesting projects

588
01:07:57,520 --> 01:08:05,360
on cash tokens too that i need to explore more so uh i think there was like uh like badgers.cash

589
01:08:05,360 --> 01:08:11,280
and then there was like another one too uh with like coupons that i thought was interesting that

590
01:08:11,280 --> 01:08:17,280
i needed to look at more uh yeah badgers.cash so the developer and founder of badgers.cash

591
01:08:17,840 --> 01:08:23,120
sarshi nakamaria was also at bch bliss last year as far as i understand said to you you will be

592
01:08:23,120 --> 01:08:30,000
going this year as well uh great great guy uh and the great product as well so this is you know being

593
01:08:30,000 --> 01:08:36,240
able to lock up your bch and the idea was he just built this as a sort of to to hone his skills you

594
01:08:36,240 --> 01:08:42,320
lock in your bch you earn the badger tokens you earn this sort of this reward non-monetary reward

595
01:08:43,360 --> 01:08:47,360
as as compensation for that the idea of sucking liquidity out of the system

596
01:08:48,480 --> 01:08:54,240
and sort of people having fun with that but but the token that has value you know people see people

597
01:08:55,280 --> 01:09:02,160
see the value in this and have attributed value to this um and so the the total value locked of

598
01:09:02,160 --> 01:09:09,440
uh badgers.cash in this is going quite quite high uh and it's great to see this because um you know

599
01:09:09,440 --> 01:09:14,240
this wasn't this isn't built as a business idea or anything like that it's just you know people

600
01:09:14,240 --> 01:09:21,040
learning the tools and trying out stuff but yet the quality is high enough to attract people to

601
01:09:21,040 --> 01:09:26,080
to use it and encouraging further investments so uh yeah and i know sarshi is working on some other

602
01:09:26,080 --> 01:09:31,280
much more meaningful product products right now and projects we'll hear about more of those uh

603
01:09:31,280 --> 01:09:37,200
in in the year i believe um but yeah there's a lot going on in that ecosystem and uh so yeah

604
01:09:37,200 --> 01:09:42,960
goblins cash so you know for everyone listening so you can check that out goblins.cash um and uh

605
01:09:43,920 --> 01:09:50,320
i think this is something i remember when this came out um on on smart bch you know and i was

606
01:09:50,320 --> 01:09:57,920
really excited um by this and uh and i really you know it pains me everything that happened there

607
01:09:57,920 --> 01:10:03,440
and i know you you've obviously gone through a lot you've learned a lot uh and i'm and i'm really

608
01:10:03,440 --> 01:10:09,360
enthused and motivated by the fact that throughout all of that you just carried on

609
01:10:10,160 --> 01:10:19,280
and didn't say no and and developed and now i've got multi-chain um and uh yeah i are working very

610
01:10:19,280 --> 01:10:25,680
hard to making this um a great success so i'm really looking forward to seeing this this roadmap

611
01:10:25,680 --> 01:10:34,720
so the roadmap goes to june 2025 so uh as a sort of final question um so the road road goes to june

612
01:10:34,720 --> 01:10:41,760
25 we've got the main net launch forefront and ready and open source prep how likely is it for

613
01:10:41,760 --> 01:10:49,760
you to be hitting that roadmap on time um i think it's extremely likely in the sense that we're uh

614
01:10:50,640 --> 01:10:55,280
i mean some of the reason for the timeline just has to do with like licensing business

615
01:10:55,280 --> 01:11:01,120
source license versus open source license and stuff like that but um i i think it's extremely

616
01:11:01,120 --> 01:11:08,160
likely that we'll be hitting that uh we'll be hitting that on time and basically like yeah

617
01:11:08,160 --> 01:11:12,880
what i was saying earlier we're trying to align all the stakeholders and then like in addition

618
01:11:12,880 --> 01:11:19,120
to concentrate the liquidity like the stuff that we're putting out in june uh will be like uniswap

619
01:11:19,120 --> 01:11:27,200
e2 type liquidity um it would be like especially with like sbch having uh dpeg issues right now

620
01:11:27,200 --> 01:11:35,200
um we're using curve finance um invariant curve which will help like try to stabilize the sbch price

621
01:11:35,840 --> 01:11:43,200
and then uh has a couple other things too with like voting and uh um that will like align the

622
01:11:43,200 --> 01:11:49,440
stakeholders uh together but kind of like goblin's cash vision right now is to like align

623
01:11:50,000 --> 01:11:56,640
the stakeholders together with this meta dex vision and to make the to make it more profitable

624
01:11:56,640 --> 01:12:05,520
i mean it's hard to do right now like on with on svch and uh uh yeah like being multi-chain helps

625
01:12:05,520 --> 01:12:13,440
a ton uh with svch base and finance marketing and yeah like we didn't even touch on like ai but

626
01:12:13,440 --> 01:12:19,200
there's like a bunch of stuff going on with ai right now in terms of ai coding and and ai

627
01:12:19,200 --> 01:12:25,280
it's actually one of my questions uh that i wanted to ask it's actually but we the conversation

628
01:12:25,280 --> 01:12:31,200
moves somewhere else but uh yeah so i saw the ai powered dex and this is always you know for me ai

629
01:12:31,200 --> 01:12:38,560
is uh is this such an amazing tool but can often be used as a buzzword um you know and you know

630
01:12:41,040 --> 01:12:45,120
you know maybe that's something we can talk about another time and come back to that but

631
01:12:45,120 --> 01:12:51,120
yeah you're saying that ai is uh you know powering this dex in a in a sentence or two

632
01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:59,440
can you explain how you are leveraging ai yeah so so it's not fully fudged out yet so like most of

633
01:12:59,440 --> 01:13:05,760
the stuff on the site like in terms of the doc section like we're using like notebook lom and

634
01:13:05,760 --> 01:13:14,160
like uh there's like podcast formats where you can turn the website pages into lom like where we see

635
01:13:14,720 --> 01:13:24,480
like adding more ai components to uh to goblins cache is on the wallet side um so yeah we didn't

636
01:13:24,480 --> 01:13:31,280
necessarily touch on that like this is getting into wallets but like uh there's these things called

637
01:13:31,280 --> 01:13:38,000
like coinbase has like coinbase smart wallet and basically you're moving on from private keys and

638
01:13:38,000 --> 01:13:46,880
recovery phrases to uh pass keys and the pass keys are tied to the hardware of like your computer or

639
01:13:46,880 --> 01:13:55,120
your phone or in this secure enclave infrastructure and like you can recover like getting back to

640
01:13:55,120 --> 01:14:03,440
recovery phrases and private keys like you can recover uh your wallet in case like you lost the

641
01:14:03,440 --> 01:14:09,280
hardware or if there was an issue through uh through a smart contract and that's where we see

642
01:14:09,280 --> 01:14:16,880
like adding ai um agents there but it's not fully done yet um it's mostly just stuff and

643
01:14:17,600 --> 01:14:24,480
and yeah it's mostly just stuff on on like docs and like the analytics section and a couple other

644
01:14:24,480 --> 01:14:33,120
places but um i i mean it's yeah i mean it's important like ai right now like it it's important

645
01:14:33,120 --> 01:14:39,360
it's important to the ecosystem and crypto in general and that's where that's where you're

646
01:14:39,360 --> 01:14:44,480
actually seeing the whole market right now is in these ai agents i don't know if you've heard of

647
01:14:44,480 --> 01:14:50,560
like virtual's protocol but that's like the main one right now with like ai agents and and it's

648
01:14:50,560 --> 01:15:00,640
kind of crazy just going on x and just seeing like ai xbt just like just talking and and talking and

649
01:15:00,640 --> 01:15:05,680
like giving valuable information about different projects like i've actually been using it just

650
01:15:06,240 --> 01:15:11,920
for like making decisions and stuff like that and it's crazy and i don't know if you've seen so the

651
01:15:11,920 --> 01:15:17,120
new nvidia cards are coming on the suit like the supercomputer for three grand or something insane

652
01:15:17,120 --> 01:15:25,360
it's um it's something that you know the the ai software is is developing at a tremendous rate

653
01:15:25,360 --> 01:15:31,600
but it's also the hardware underpinning it all um and and is and is really being released at prices

654
01:15:31,600 --> 01:15:37,360
that are affordable to any enthusiast out there too which is great you know democratizing this

655
01:15:38,080 --> 01:15:44,560
crazy power um and ai is something i know a lot of a lot of people still say that ai is the fad

656
01:15:44,560 --> 01:15:48,480
and i i to me i smack my head i i love cryptocurrencies i think that the invention

657
01:15:48,480 --> 01:15:53,760
of bitcoin and the block blockchain and the open ledger was one of the greatest inventions and so

658
01:15:53,760 --> 01:16:00,960
like i think it is the greatest invention um uh for money and finance uh since like the invention

659
01:16:00,960 --> 01:16:07,280
of coins and and money i think that's massive but ai i think just does everything else it's just it's

660
01:16:07,280 --> 01:16:13,520
just a burning flame in comparison um and i think it's the uh the the potential what we're going to

661
01:16:13,520 --> 01:16:19,280
be seeing over the next 10 20 years it'll make the entire industrial revolution look like the

662
01:16:19,280 --> 01:16:25,600
discovery of fire in comparison it's gonna be it's just gonna be it's gonna be wild so i'm really

663
01:16:25,600 --> 01:16:30,960
excited uh by by this technology i think the world's gonna get very bizarre very weird um

664
01:16:30,960 --> 01:16:36,400
before we find um before before we find our way with this new technology and why i'm more grateful

665
01:16:36,400 --> 01:16:41,280
than ever for decentralized uh permissionless money i think we've never had such a need for it

666
01:16:41,280 --> 01:16:46,720
because it's the one be one of the few things that we can actually trust um um but of course

667
01:16:46,720 --> 01:16:51,360
you know the way that it will be leveraged in everything um and how we develop tools how we

668
01:16:51,360 --> 01:16:56,160
build tall tools it will democratize app building i'm pretty sure there will be a lot more people

669
01:16:56,160 --> 01:17:02,640
in 10 years that have great ideas and rather than just uh you know uh having to shelve those ideas

670
01:17:02,640 --> 01:17:08,000
because it can't afford a developer we'll be able to use ai to at least get the sort of the concept

671
01:17:08,000 --> 01:17:12,080
going as you know you're just thinking about today i can't draw i'm really it's one of my weaknesses

672
01:17:12,080 --> 01:17:16,560
i can create music i'm you know i'm definitely artistic in that sense but i can't draw but i can

673
01:17:16,560 --> 01:17:23,120
just write in a prompt and all of a sudden the thing that i was thinking becomes on a you know

674
01:17:23,120 --> 01:17:30,080
in a in a graphic which i can then use that's you know it's a small aspect of it but uh it's crazy

675
01:17:30,080 --> 01:17:37,760
and democracize is uh this sort of entrepreneurship so yeah exciting so thanks so much uh jacob so uh

676
01:17:37,760 --> 01:17:42,240
yeah i don't know i'm thinking about changing the format so one hour is very restrictive i could

677
01:17:42,240 --> 01:17:46,640
have talked to you for another hour or two there was a lot of topics that we sort of didn't go into

678
01:17:46,640 --> 01:17:51,280
that i really was interested in um but as i said maybe we'll have to we'll have to pick that up

679
01:17:51,280 --> 01:17:55,840
again um but it was certainly a pleasure um having you on today thank you so much for joining us for

680
01:17:55,840 --> 01:18:02,400
finishing friends episode eight yeah no i loved it this is great thank you thank you thank you

681
01:18:02,400 --> 01:18:09,200
and for all you listeners please make sure um to follow jacob and goblin cash on twitter at jacob

682
01:18:09,200 --> 01:18:15,600
underscore stelter and goblins cash um and for all your listeners who enjoyed the show if you

683
01:18:15,600 --> 01:18:20,320
want to show your appreciation please feel free to drop some bch or a fiendish token into our

684
01:18:20,320 --> 01:18:26,400
wallet i've got the cash tokens address on the twitter profile and the next episode of finishing

685
01:18:26,400 --> 01:18:31,760
friends is at one o'clock central european time so the same time again next friday and it's

686
01:18:31,760 --> 01:18:37,520
featuring noel la versa the founder and ceo of code valley to talk about their paradigm shifting

687
01:18:37,520 --> 01:18:44,000
tech emergent coding set to both revolutionize and industrialize the world of coding and development

688
01:18:44,640 --> 01:18:49,120
and this is also something using i don't know if you know much about this jacob but he's also

689
01:18:49,120 --> 01:18:54,000
using little agents uh i don't know if you could call it ai agents but it's essentially using

690
01:18:54,000 --> 01:19:00,720
you know it's machine learning which essentially what ai is uh to to create to create a very

691
01:19:00,720 --> 01:19:06,800
efficient code um so very exciting and very very much looking forward to that it's been a long time

692
01:19:06,800 --> 01:19:11,280
coming um so just make sure to pop some fiendish tokens into the jigs box hit play to convert

693
01:19:11,280 --> 01:19:18,320
tokenized fiendish time into entire 60 minutes plus of the greatest podcast in the space this

694
01:19:18,320 --> 01:19:24,240
was finishing friends i wish you all a good morning a good day and good night take care bye jacob bye

695
01:19:24,240 --> 01:19:33,520
thank you

696
01:19:38,320 --> 01:19:47,680
deep in the forest where the goblins play counting their gold at the end of the day

697
01:19:47,680 --> 01:19:58,080
but grizzle the green said gold's not the key bitcoin cash is the future for goblins like me

698
01:19:59,600 --> 01:20:09,120
goblins on the blockchain dancing in the moon trading vch and singing a tune

699
01:20:09,120 --> 01:20:21,360
singing a tune with pixies trolls and sprites by their side it's a magical market where dreams abide

700
01:20:25,520 --> 01:20:35,280
the trolls used to grumble with fees that were high but bitcoin cash made their grumble subside

701
01:20:35,280 --> 01:20:45,520
fast as a fox and simple to share goblins to goblin we send it anywhere

702
01:20:47,040 --> 01:20:56,720
goblins on the blockchain dancing in the moon trading vch and singing a tune

703
01:20:56,720 --> 01:21:08,880
singing a tune with pixies trolls and sprites by their side it's a magical market where dreams abide

704
01:21:10,960 --> 01:21:18,080
sprites love to sprinkle their coins in the air tiny bch sparkles everywhere the pixies giggle

705
01:21:18,080 --> 01:21:29,920
their wallets aglow peer to peers the way to go

706
01:21:32,640 --> 01:21:44,080
the elves joined in with their elegant flair saying bitcoin cash is beyond compare from

707
01:21:44,080 --> 01:21:53,360
forest to mountains to cities and seas the creatures agree it's the best you'll see

708
01:21:55,360 --> 01:22:04,720
goblins on the blockchain dancing in the moon trading bch and singing a tune

709
01:22:04,720 --> 01:22:16,000
with pixies trolls and sprites by their side it's a magical market where dreams abide

710
01:22:16,800 --> 01:22:27,280
so if you should stumble on this merry crew remember bitcoin cash is the coin they all knew

711
01:22:27,280 --> 01:22:38,800
join in the laughter the magic the cheer for bch is the coin for all creatures here