1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,680 Happy New Year and welcome to 2025 all you Pink2P cash lovers and GreenEye Liberty loving 2 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:10,560 fiends. We hope you all had a relaxing and recuperating Christmas so that you are well 3 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:15,600 rested and charged up for the best year yet for freedom cash and the hardest money that 4 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:21,400 has ever existed. But now it's time to put down the mulled wine and mince pie and pull 5 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:26,560 up our wellies as we get stuck into the most critical phase of the fight for decentralized 6 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:31,800 freedom. And to kick it off all off in the very first episode of Finnish and Friends 7 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:36,840 this year we start with an absolute banger straight out of the gate with the true warriors 8 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:42,580 of the mission. So joining us today we have the BCH Bulls, John Neri, imaginary username 9 00:00:42,580 --> 00:00:47,080 and Jonathan Silverblood might be coming if he can manage to pull out the BCH Bliss crew 10 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:51,680 which is unlikely but hey let's keep our fingers crossed. So yes that's right the number one 11 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:58,040 of the BCH app and DeFi team is here General Protocols to talk about several topics including 12 00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:03,800 BCH Bull and AnyHedge the tech that drives it, XO Wallet and Stack and its vision for 13 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:10,160 the ecosystem, BCH 2025 State of the Union and what is planned this year to bring us 14 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:17,360 another step closer towards worldwide usage and adoption. Are you excited? I know I am. 15 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:20,400 Not only do you get to listen to the hottest people in the space but Finnish and Friends 16 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:25,000 is rewarding its live listeners with up to 50,000 emerald just listen live and retweet 17 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:29,720 this space. More details can be found on our Twitter profile or in the Finnish Friends 18 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:37,640 Telegram group. First up this week in the news be wary of your heroes. Elon Musk's comments 19 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:43,840 on H1B immigration faces backlash on Twitter leading to the deplatforming of several prominent 20 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:50,000 critics including having their premium account ticker and subscriptions removed from them. 21 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:54,960 Regardless of the take on the situation Elon's ability to financially punish or silence his 22 00:01:54,960 --> 00:02:00,560 opponents has spooked many. Putting Twitter's free speech stance under the spotlight and 23 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:06,760 again highlighting the critical need for decentralized protocols such as NOSTA or Bitcoin Cash to 24 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:14,280 protect against the perils of centralization and essentially to protect against human nature. 25 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:20,160 On the topic of decentralization BCHD an alternative Bitcoin Cash full node implementation written 26 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:26,000 in Go released an upgrade to bring it back into consensus with the ecosystem offering 27 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:32,760 critical decentralized choice to BCH node operators in the software they choose to run. 28 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:39,040 Moria USD the first over-clatterized stablecoin on BCH triggered its first liquidation of 29 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:45,280 a BCH loan that was under 110% over-clatterization ensuring that the peg was maintained even 30 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:50,320 during the recent market pullback that saw BCH price drop in double digit percentages 31 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:57,000 showcasing Moria's dependability and stability during high market volatility. That was the 32 00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:02,480 news and now for the main event and why everyone is here please welcome John Neary a new name 33 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:07,200 to the mic. Hi guys and thanks for using your meeting time to join us today. 34 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:10,640 Hello. Yeah hello thanks for inviting us. 35 00:03:10,640 --> 00:03:15,960 Hello yes oh it's an honor it's a privilege. Did you guys manage to get some well-needed 36 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:21,120 downtime over the holidays did you have a break? 37 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:27,120 Some of us did. Sort of. 38 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:32,160 We do a lot of things right there's a there's GP that we do and yeah take a break a bit 39 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:37,080 but then there's also other things that we work on right so yeah one thing falls off 40 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:41,800 and one thing picks up but yeah it took some days off spend some time with family I did. 41 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:45,320 Good. Good it's important I think because we're 42 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:49,760 in for the marathon this isn't a sprint as we've now really learned the hard way we're 43 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:54,080 not going to get to worldwide usage. I mean it's a marathon where you're constantly 44 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:59,040 reminded that things are on fire all the time so yeah. 45 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:02,800 Yes things are constantly on fire all the time but hopefully there's been a little less 46 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:08,480 fire out or putting out of fires over the last 12 months or even now 24 months as we've 47 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:14,680 worked towards building forwards you know as we mentioned just before we started the 48 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:21,720 two-year curse of or the biannual curse of things imploding on bch seems to have come 49 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:26,520 to an end. 50 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:32,680 Yeah you name identified that curse and much much earlier on many many years ago right 51 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:37,920 when when many of us were still smoking a bit of copium and being like everything's 52 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:46,160 fine you know split whatever BSP split ABC split whatever you know price whatever. 53 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:53,040 The last time I thought this the last time I thought this was over was 2022 and and we're 54 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:59,160 like okay so it doesn't look like there's gonna be a chain split or you know a a consensus 55 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:06,400 split of any kind we should be safe it's it's everything will be fine from now on and then 56 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:13,680 and then we realized that we not only we not only had to be careful about chain splits 57 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:21,800 we also have to guard against major scams so there is that yeah. 58 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:28,760 Yes and yeah it's been well the fact that things have have stabilized and become solid 59 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:34,240 is is not at all an accident right there's a lot of discussions with other coins that 60 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:39,840 won't be named and people to some degree representing those coins and they really they really have 61 00:05:39,840 --> 00:05:45,860 no clue what it means to to face adversity and in a in a coin and maintaining a network 62 00:05:45,860 --> 00:05:49,920 and actually keeping it decentralized and man there's there's nobody else who's done 63 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:56,840 that what BCH has done and still come out you know smelling not too bad doing all right 64 00:05:56,840 --> 00:06:02,300 so yeah man it's not an accident we've learned a lot we've got the the bruises the scars 65 00:06:02,300 --> 00:06:08,480 and we know what we're doing and keep just keep getting better so yeah no accidents 66 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:10,520 what we're doing so far. 67 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:16,800 Yeah and this is one thing I think is quite obvious for me when I when I think about like 68 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:21,160 benefits of centralization and the benefits of decentralization if you centralize something 69 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:26,280 centralize a project it's kind of easier to survive those storms if you have a very strong 70 00:06:26,280 --> 00:06:29,400 leader at the top and someone that you know the project belongs to someone they can throw 71 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:34,680 money in it and win that case but of course as we all know in BCH why centralization is 72 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:39,240 incredibly dangerous especially when it comes to money it's just not even not even worth 73 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:44,600 thinking about so the decentralized approach I think you know it has to go through those 74 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:50,040 battle scars it has to learn how to you know to remain decentralized and and being decentralized 75 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:55,600 does make it harder to justify the sort of investments that a centralized entity will 76 00:06:55,600 --> 00:07:00,800 have especially you know when it started up by by a very rich person they can issue the 77 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:07,040 coins themselves and BCH has done that and it's survived the you know all of the the 78 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:14,160 issues that have happened since 2017 up to 2022 and since 2022 it's been now two wonderful 79 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:19,000 years of forward-looking progression as you say John it's it's been well it's been planned 80 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:25,240 and orchestrated to be like that it wasn't by an accident and it for me it sets us up 81 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:30,080 it sets BCH up for for the best year best year yep there's a lot of foundations that 82 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:35,800 have been laid down and it's just for me the critical part is moving that forward getting 83 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:39,200 the people actually using the tools that we've got out there because I think today it really 84 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:42,880 is the case there are a lot of tools there's a lot of fun to be had within the ecosystem 85 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:47,920 and a lot of a lot of interesting things to be to be doing there that can justify then 86 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:52,200 the next wave of investment but before we get like sidetracked onto that I would like 87 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:56,920 for you know for everyone that listens to this to understand a little bit about you 88 00:07:56,920 --> 00:08:03,280 guys so General Protocols is one of the most important enterprises in BCH today BCH Bull 89 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:09,160 one of their products has by far the highest total of value locked than any other DeFi 90 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:14,880 platform or tool in the BCH ecosystem so they're very important and anyone who's anyone in 91 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:20,200 Bitcoin Cash has either used or at least heard of your products and services but the idea 92 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:27,080 of this Finnish and Friends is also to to reach out and make sure that the new people 93 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:31,740 also understand like not only what the services are what they offer but who are the people 94 00:08:31,740 --> 00:08:35,160 behind them so that's what I'd love to know now and I'm sure that many in BCH probably 95 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:40,880 aren't aware of the people behind BCH Bull and General Protocols so yeah who are you 96 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:46,160 guys what's your vision and mission that you bring to Bitcoin Cash? 97 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:51,560 Man I wish we had Jonathan here because he always gives like a rousing you know like 98 00:08:51,560 --> 00:08:57,840 a war speech for this kind of thing but I'll do a little bit for my part I'd say all of 99 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:03,400 us see the future of what's possible and what we want to achieve with Bitcoin Cash with 100 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:08,680 permissionless money for the world and we've seen it for a long time and we've seen a lot 101 00:09:08,680 --> 00:09:14,840 of tribulations and as Jim who's on here right now just said it's a trial by fire we've 102 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:19,320 all kind of been through that but you know everybody's still here all the the people 103 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:26,000 that are working hard on it are still here through a lot of a lot of hard times good 104 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:32,080 times also but hard times and we just want to see that possibility realized of what it 105 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:38,640 means to have a global money for the world that's separated from the state right that 106 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:44,840 that's to the greatest degree possible independent and not subject to I don't know something 107 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:50,280 like the the Fiat tyranny you know the the the fact that the government of the place 108 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:56,520 that you live can just inflate your money away and they can decide if if you actually 109 00:09:56,520 --> 00:10:01,400 own your money or not they can make decisions about that you can just suddenly not be in 110 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:05,480 possession of the money that you thought you were in possession of and so forth so we'd 111 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:11,400 like to really see that realized and we think it's necessary as a as a counterbalance to 112 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:16,800 a lot of the insanity that's just keeps ramping up day by day yeah so we're here to to see 113 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:21,360 that realized to see the vision of Bitcoin realized permissionless money for the world 114 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:33,120 great thank you then I assume you name by your side and you haven't got anything to 115 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:40,760 add to that John's ticked all the boxes there from your perspective yeah and I think I think 116 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:50,160 it's important to know that it's not enough to just know what you want it is also important 117 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:57,400 to make sure that what you want aligns with what's you know the best and the most efficient 118 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:05,440 for yourself and other people so you know we want we want a lot of things we want permissionless 119 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:13,840 we want privacy we you know we want the money to be free and independent among other things 120 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:19,600 but it's not very useful if you preserve all those characteristics and the money that you 121 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:26,880 got is just not it just doesn't work very well and it could be one of very one of many 122 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:32,880 reasons it's not flexible enough it's not liquid enough it's not adopted in enough different 123 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:38,960 use cases and things like that and it's not you know you got you got what some of what 124 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:45,520 you want but then you know what you want turns turns out to be not very useful then it compromises 125 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:50,760 your original vision so not only do we need to know what we want we also need to work 126 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:57,600 hard to man that's something that I think really sets Bitcoin Cash apart and for people 127 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:02,680 who are coming from the outside they won't be able to see it at all but anybody who can 128 00:12:02,680 --> 00:12:09,320 see what's going on in Bitcoin Cash understands that it's really a kind of practical network 129 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:15,160 it's not the do things that are only idealistic it's not do things that are only going to 130 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:21,880 make a quick buck it's do the things that are going to make this be solid survive for 131 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:28,060 a long time be popular be useful actually be used etc like you know it's a balance 132 00:12:28,060 --> 00:12:31,880 of all the things to be successful you can't just do one thing well you got to do all the 133 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:38,800 things well yeah the pragmatic Bitcoin I like this and this is something what keeps me attracted 134 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:43,840 very much to the BCH community so sometimes I'm writing on Telegram and I understand we've 135 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:49,120 written form the tone is maybe lost sometimes when I challenge certain aspects or ask certain 136 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:53,040 questions to understand about where we're up with certain things but such as privacy 137 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:56,760 so privacy is an incredibly important part is BCH the number one in privacy no does that 138 00:12:56,760 --> 00:13:01,000 mean it's not the number one coin no it is the number one money out there because it 139 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:07,240 takes this practical approach and it has you know all the different areas of what's important 140 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:11,560 in mind and the community as a whole is then dedicating the resources where it thinks is 141 00:13:11,560 --> 00:13:15,680 going to lead to exactly what you're talking about that that best compromise at the moment 142 00:13:15,680 --> 00:13:20,240 because you know if you have if you have one feature that's absolutely the best and stand 143 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:25,280 out and you know the best in its class in all of cryptocurrencies but it's not used 144 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:30,040 by anyone or it has some other deficiencies such as it can't scale or you can't have smart 145 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:34,040 contracts whatever then it doesn't matter and it's irrelevant and I think this very 146 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:39,000 pragmatic approach is why I'm as convinced today or actually more convinced today than 147 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:44,040 ever and that's being honest because we've had a rough couple of years more convinced 148 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:51,040 today than ever that Bitcoin Cash is the most likely by far of all the coins out there to 149 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:58,240 become a world-used mass-used cryptocurrency and absolutely delving into others yeah sorry 150 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:04,480 oh yeah no sorry sorry I was just gonna say that Union was saying imagine a username we 151 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:09,720 just calling me name has a has you know have to be practical we have to actually make sure 152 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:14,120 that we do the right things and we focus on the right things we can't just be all totally 153 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:19,580 idealistic about it but at the same time all those things that you said are really possible 154 00:14:19,580 --> 00:14:24,600 with Bitcoin Cash because it does have a clear vision right that vision is there and it's 155 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:34,240 solid and it's shocking how much of crypto I don't want to say percents but 99 plus maybe 156 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:38,880 people and coins and so forth really don't have a clear vision or at least not one that 157 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:44,120 they can say publicly and I love that about Bitcoin Cash that we know where we're going 158 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:49,240 we know what we want to achieve and that we're gonna be practical about getting there it's 159 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:55,180 not magic there's a lot of hard work that goes into it but uh but we're gonna get there 160 00:14:55,180 --> 00:14:58,680 you make me laugh there because let's face it for 99.9 percent of the coins reason why 161 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:04,200 people in it is for one reason only money getting other people's money and is 162 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:09,200 your in a zero subs game and that's also why you know of course everyone here wants to 163 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:13,960 be making profit and anyone that says different is lying but the reason why we all stick around 164 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:18,440 is because there's something much grander than just making a cheap buck and certainly 165 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:23,400 not making a cheap buck or selling a pretty stone to some other fool so yeah great so 166 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:28,320 thank you for that and it's a bit of understanding about who you guys are and I'd like to go 167 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:33,840 to talk about like one of your most popular product that you've released bch bull you 168 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:37,920 recently posted so it's back in November so I guess this is old numbers now but you 169 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:45,240 posted that bch bull had over 500 000 bch in total volume I mean this is an insane amount 170 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:50,680 of transactions since the uh since the app's been launched um yeah how would you explain 171 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:54,740 just you know is it sort of a high level summary so anyone that's listening can understand 172 00:15:54,740 --> 00:16:00,620 how would you explain bch bull to someone that is new to the ecosystem uh and has no 173 00:16:00,620 --> 00:16:07,280 experience in in what bch bull has to offer so there's a lot of ways to look at this but 174 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:11,480 uh the fundamental way that we came at it from the beginning which has changed somewhat 175 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:17,560 but the the fundamentals of what we came from is even people who really want to use cryptocurrency 176 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:23,040 because they understand the the fundamentals of it the value of it you know permissionless 177 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:28,280 money that it's money that you own and so forth um even people who understand that they 178 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:35,400 still face the problem of purchasing power volatility purchasing power just means okay 179 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:40,120 I've got all this crypto you know the number of hamburgers that I can buy with it changes 180 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:46,040 drastically on a day-to-day basis and uh because bitcoin cash is about being a practical calling 181 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:52,040 sorry just hot dogs sorry hot dogs my bad the number of big Costco hot dogs that you 182 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:57,080 can buy can change drastically from day to day right and um for people who have you know 183 00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:02,600 disposable income that's okay but bitcoin cash is for everyone and so for someone who 184 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:06,120 doesn't have you know money that they can just throw out but they still want to use 185 00:17:06,120 --> 00:17:12,360 it volatility is a is an ugly problem because sometimes it goes in your favor and all of 186 00:17:12,360 --> 00:17:16,760 a sudden you've got a mountain of hot dogs and then the next day you're like you're 187 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:22,340 barely scraping by with the number of hot dogs so yes the original purpose was to provide 188 00:17:22,340 --> 00:17:27,960 some way to solve this stability problem which is uh the purchasing power I can put money 189 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:35,000 into the any hedge the bch bull these contracts and you put money in and that money is worth 190 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:40,200 uh your bch is worth say like 100 hot dogs at the beginning and by the end of the contract 191 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:44,640 it's still worth 100 hot dogs even though you know one month has gone by or three months 192 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:51,440 have gone by and that can be you know us dollars seriously speaking us dollars euros gold silver 193 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:56,800 all of those different things you can get that stability in those and you get that together 194 00:17:56,800 --> 00:18:02,320 with it being non-custodial and maintaining and using all those properties of bch so there's 195 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:07,160 a lot of solutions where you're like okay I want to have uh some kind of purchasing power 196 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:12,920 stability I want stability but to get it you've got to go to a custodian who's going to hold 197 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:17,660 your money and promise you bro that they're going to give it back which is a bank right 198 00:18:17,660 --> 00:18:23,440 in one form or another or you have to go to some kind of service that makes some significant 199 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:30,240 compromises on well you know trust me in one way or another and so this goes to the greatest 200 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:35,760 degree you can to just say no it all works based on bitcoin cash based on smart contracts 201 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:40,280 it's as secure as the network itself and the stability is as secure as the network itself 202 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:45,280 so that's the the fundamental idea is to provide a stability solution for people so that they 203 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:52,400 can uh not have to worry about the volatility of of uh crypto prices that's the fundamental 204 00:18:52,400 --> 00:19:01,200 and then from there that is joined with that is only possible to the degree that you marry 205 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:05,760 people who want stability and people who want to speculate because to get stability that 206 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:11,760 volatility has got to go somewhere so that volatility gets traded off to people who want 207 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:16,720 volatility who want more volatility and so that's the the genius of the design that uh 208 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:22,200 you name came up with is uh is just that pairing people together who want stability and want 209 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:24,080 volatility want more volatility 210 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:33,920 Thanks and how is that pairing going on like looking at it today you know you you started 211 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:39,880 off it's bch bull the marketing was pretty clear if you're aiming for the bulls within 212 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:47,560 bch so i guess you're getting a lot of a lot more um money on the on the long side of bch 213 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:52,360 uh you opened up then the sort of the meme site of bch bear which i thought was brilliant 214 00:19:52,360 --> 00:19:58,560 to link to bch bull so you can get the bears in there but uh yeah today how is that pairing 215 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:03,240 a match have you got liquidity you know that you require from both sides or are you having 216 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:04,480 some some challenges there 217 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:12,240 yeah no it's a like you said before 500 000 bch of volume so that's something like 220 218 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:17,400 million usd average something like that it depends right on when you counted the price 219 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:22,360 of things um so it's a lot there's a lot going through there and it's not just one-sided 220 00:20:22,360 --> 00:20:27,600 it can't be it doesn't work like that and it works like all you know very smart things 221 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:34,120 do it works on incentives as you know tons of bch bulls like you were saying which is 222 00:20:34,120 --> 00:20:38,200 you know it's a bit of marketing just to say hey everybody who's in bch you've got this 223 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:44,680 thing available to you you surely should think about using it in one way or another and uh 224 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:49,400 these people come in maybe they do want to be long but as you want to be long as as more 225 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:54,840 people want to go on one side that side becomes more expensive and you know if everybody thinks 226 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:58,880 that's the way things are going to go then the people on the other side are in a great 227 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:03,760 position the people who think you know wait that may not be the best decision and they 228 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:09,600 can start to charge to be paired in those contracts right so if everybody wants to be 229 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:13,680 on one side and i'm on the other side i'm in a great position i can charge them as much 230 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:18,880 as i want and and so it balances itself out you know that's the incentives as as things 231 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:24,200 get out of balance people come in to start uh charging for those contracts and uh and 232 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:28,800 take the other side of things so it balances itself out naturally through incentives and 233 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:33,000 where you would see that normally is in things like interest rates that would be the rough 234 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:38,240 equivalent of things you know as people want to borrow and and are long on something the 235 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:44,640 interest rates will move up and down uh based on uh sentiment of whether uh that's a good 236 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:45,800 decision or a bad decision 237 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:54,920 I remember in 2022 at the bch conference in sink hits in nevis one of the comments if 238 00:21:54,920 --> 00:22:03,960 i remember correctly from roger there was um is just skepticism at that time of any hedge and of 239 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:07,160 i don't think bch bull was out there but it was certainly of any hedge in the contracts that were 240 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:12,200 going to be put in place um because of with any smart contract you know there's always the risk 241 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:17,320 uh and you know waiting to see how this actually runs you guys have been running now for is it 242 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:26,360 just under two years now um with bch bull and my question is was that fear was any of that fear 243 00:22:26,360 --> 00:22:31,480 warranted like um or or because from what i've experienced bch bull has been incredibly stable 244 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:37,640 i've not had anyone um make any complaints about any any money that was was lost but you know is 245 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:42,200 is that the reality that you've experienced that has been an incredibly stable platform even with 246 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:44,440 huge price increases of volatility 247 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:52,920 okay we we spent we spent a lot of effort making sure hey can you hear me i'm sorry the audio cut 248 00:22:52,920 --> 00:23:01,080 out for me for a second uh we we can hear you now yeah you hear me yeah i can hear you both 249 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:08,680 right okay i'm gonna assume that you can hear me the uh the yes things have been stable we worked 250 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:15,480 our asses off to make it safe and stable and to be secure and uh you know as i said to 251 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:22,840 not have these points of trust so you know that's half the point or huge part of the point is that 252 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:26,440 you don't have to really trust somebody very much to use these things there's the oracles 253 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:32,120 which is a significant issue but besides those uh you know it depends on the bch network and 254 00:23:32,120 --> 00:23:37,960 the smart contract and we've worked uh very hard which was the subject of the the bliss presentation 255 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:44,760 that i gave last uh last yeah last year on uh you know contract security and in doing formal 256 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:51,320 validations of of contracts and so forth so yeah it's uh it's been secure it's been running fine 257 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:59,720 it's been smooth i'm not sure what the concerns were but um yeah no uh that's part of the the 258 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:05,640 the magic of choosing the right business to be in is that uh you choose one that's practical just 259 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:10,120 like everything with bch you don't choose one that's you know maybe your your favorite thing 260 00:24:10,120 --> 00:24:14,520 that you would love to achieve 10 years from now you you look at all the things that are available 261 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:21,000 what people need today and you choose the one that's going to get you the most of everything you want 262 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:26,120 and that's what bch bull does right it goes in the direction that we want to go which is non-custodial 263 00:24:26,120 --> 00:24:30,440 not having to have accounts you just work with you know yourself and your counterparty that's it 264 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:34,200 you're working with permissionless money you're working on smart contracts 265 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:39,800 uh nobody else has control of your money uh but it's a thing that people want to do which is 266 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:46,120 stability and speculation so you know it's kind of marrying the the issues that are in front of 267 00:24:46,120 --> 00:24:52,200 you and finding the best way forward towards the the ultimate goal that you want to reach so yeah i 268 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:57,880 think we were pretty confident that things would work but it is a different matter to uh to think 269 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:03,000 things are going to work and then to actually see 200 million dollars of volume go through it is it 270 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:11,720 is a bit of a of a of a mind fuck to to see that go and of course we want to see it grow much more 271 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:19,240 and let me just go ahead and say um another part of the reason that we started general protocols 272 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:27,080 was just to be the you know the the one who breaks new ground because you know that's how people are 273 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:32,440 once you see somebody else do a thing and you're like wait a minute i could do that and that's what 274 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:37,240 we want we want more entrepreneurs to come in and look and be like wait i can use permissionless 275 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:42,760 money to start a business i can use permissionless money to you know run my business or to be part of 276 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:48,440 the things that i do and so yeah so i'm happy to see it going and i hope people are having their 277 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:53,080 eyes on it and thinking hey i'd like to do that too because we want you to do it as well it takes 278 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:58,680 a network and it takes a you know a community to to build things up and we're looking for 279 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:03,240 uh everybody to come in and we hope that we're encouraging and our success is encouraging others 280 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:05,240 to to jump in 281 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:16,280 that's actually a really good point to um to think about um another topic that is interesting to me 282 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:22,440 so you're saying about um you want to inspire people you know other people look at what you're 283 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:29,080 doing and uh enjoying him of that and inspiring entrepreneurs into the network which is incredibly 284 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:39,160 important that was the reason why uh back in 2023 uh set up the reddit hash tokens was for exactly 285 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:44,440 that purpose i mean that in mind so general protocols you guys are a sponsor of bch bliss 286 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:51,240 conference libiana um with uh jonathan being the main organizer behind the events so um is this 287 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:57,640 part of that vision of encouraging um builders to come together to the benefit of the ecosystem and 288 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:02,120 i'd love to understand a little bit about like what your thoughts are on that and how that can 289 00:27:02,120 --> 00:27:08,440 actually improve um or make it more attractive for people in the ecosystem to start coming in 290 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:22,440 building and trying out their entrepreneurship 291 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:31,400 okay you should be able to speak jon did you hear that question 292 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:40,680 question okay the question was yes based on what you just said then about making it more attractive 293 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:45,400 for builders um you know because they're looking at what you guys are doing um general protocols 294 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:49,480 is also a sponsor of the bch this conference in libiana and what i understand greatly like that 295 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:55,960 is the idea behind it then and that's why you are sponsoring this conference um is for um you know 296 00:27:55,960 --> 00:28:01,080 for for those for that purpose i just love to um to understand a little bit about yeah 297 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:05,880 where you see the benefits of that conference why you're sponsoring it 298 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:12,680 and what you've seen in in in 2024 and what you're what you're hoping for in 2025 and beyond 299 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:22,760 i'm gonna start that answer with a funny story the the origin of the bliss conference was 300 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:29,000 because general protocols team deciding hey it would be because we're fully remote right and it's 301 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:34,040 like hey we should you know maybe once a year or something get together and you know we have some 302 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:39,480 really serious things we have to figure out and work on beyond our daily stuff that we work on so 303 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:45,320 let's get together and and you know be in one place like physically so that we can have you 304 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:51,320 know high bandwidth discussions and talk and yell at each other and whatnot and so we started doing 305 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:57,160 the planning for that and then jonathan was like how about we tell other people that we're gonna 306 00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:01,640 do it it's like okay sure other people can come if they want and he's like what if we rented a 307 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:07,080 room and it's like we're gonna rent the room for gp and that's it what if we had a little bit of 308 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:15,080 a presentation and i was like no okay stop and i said if you want to do a conference you can do 309 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:21,880 a conference but i don't have the bandwidth for it and jonathan was like all right that went from 310 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:27,640 there for the long for the longest time i thought the room is gonna be kind of small and you know it 311 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:34,600 would take like a few people and things like that and then jada made the room a lot bigger like a 312 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:41,800 lot bigger jonathan really man when that guy when he picks something up and he's like i'm gonna do 313 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:47,320 this it happens so uh he's done it and of course it's not only him but that's the that's the seed 314 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:52,920 of it was just that and us wanting to have you know conversations with other people but then 315 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:58,200 when it actually got the organization man he handled up on it and uh and the thing happened 316 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:05,960 and so him and uh ryan and jeremy and other people working hard on it and making it happen and uh 317 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:13,400 it's beautiful yes so our sponsorship of it is uh basically us sponsoring jonathan 318 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:20,600 and the guys doing the thing you know a thousand x what i had thought they were going to do which 319 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:25,400 is amazing um so really all the credit there goes to jonathan and those guys for organizing 320 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:31,240 bliss that's not really gp at all except to the degree that you know jonathan has a platform to 321 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:37,320 stand on because of gp but no those guys are doing it to make it happen and yeah i hope more people 322 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:43,480 will come and they will see oh my god there's all this stuff going on with bch and uh maybe it's 323 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:49,480 something that i can build on also and on that point i'm not sure if you have seen mini satoshi's 324 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:55,880 if you look on twitter it's underscore mini satoshi he has this new site which uh shows you 325 00:30:55,880 --> 00:31:01,400 know bch ecosystem all these things it's very fast it's very nice and and you can really get 326 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:09,320 a sense that oh my god there's a lot going on here so yeah it's all it's all it's all a a virtuous 327 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:16,040 circle right uh us being successful other people see that you're successful other people want to 328 00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:18,840 come in and then you know it just goes up from there 329 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:26,520 um i think i couldn't agree more well also i can't remember if it was defined by jonathan or if it 330 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:34,280 was something i just in my head but the um the way to measure the success of such a conference 331 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:40,280 where it's about builders is one of the activities that happen over the next 12 months after that 332 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:45,480 conference like what new groups are forming and what new things are happening and so on and so 333 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:50,760 next 12 months after that conference like what new groups are formed and what corporations are there 334 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:57,800 is there anything i mean i can't remember i think this was from jonathan um but have you guys uh 335 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:03,640 from your side have you seen um the fruits that have come out of that conference in libiana in 336 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:13,400 may this year the last year the fruits that come out of it of course uh we were able to to show 337 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:18,680 people bch bull have people use it maybe gain a little confidence that that uh that it really is 338 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:25,000 solid those things happen those things are very hard to measure though um but from my perspective 339 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:32,120 right and this is one of those perspectives where those of us working on gp are also in it for the 340 00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:39,560 the bigger goals of bitcoin cash and that means we're happy when other people are successful right 341 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:46,600 in in our uh ecosystem even if they may be like uh partial or or almost direct competitors we're 342 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:50,440 actually happy with that right we want to see the pie grow we want to see everything growing 343 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:57,160 so from that angle i've been incredibly happy after the conference it's been very successful 344 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:05,000 the number of people interested is getting is really it's kind of cliched but i can't keep up 345 00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:08,360 with everything that's going on and i've said that for a long time but it's really getting to the 346 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:13,400 point that i actually have no idea who some people are who are doing important and interesting things 347 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:20,200 and um i think a big part of that came from you know of course everything that's going on in bch 348 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:27,240 but the people that came to bch and presented like yourself like match you uh they present and they 349 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:32,840 inspire other people other people jump in and that circle continues so yeah from that angle 350 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:37,800 it's been a great success i've seen so much going on more than i can keep up with by far 351 00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:45,320 what i notice is other than one exception every every one of the people that were at bch bliss 352 00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:52,200 that i'm in contact with is more passionate about bch today than ever um and i think that's for me 353 00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:57,480 this i think there is more positivity in the community overall but i it's you know it's hard 354 00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:03,640 it's hard to measure as you say and it's largely anecdotal um but i have talked on to it um and one 355 00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:08,440 thing i'm absolutely convinced about is the reality that as much as we've got you know there's a lot 356 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:14,520 of people in the community that love um the engineers and love uh building and working very 357 00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:20,120 much on themselves as well is that we're working in a social network and what we achieve together 358 00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:25,080 um is infinitely more than the loan just thinking about general protocols i'm sure that each one of 359 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:29,880 you you know you're all gifted intelligent individuals but i doubt very much if if you 360 00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:34,520 would have accomplished a fraction of what you've accomplished today uh without working together 361 00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:41,080 and as i understand you guys also met a also a conference straight get together uh to do with 362 00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:48,120 bch so uh it's really important um and i really hope to see more people as you say uh turn up to 363 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:55,800 bch bliss uh this i've got to get used to it this year it's 2025 damn it um yeah so the tickets go 364 00:34:55,800 --> 00:35:01,240 on sale on the 15th as i understand and uh i would love to see as many people go there as possible 365 00:35:01,240 --> 00:35:06,920 because um the the more builders the the more action the bigger the pie is as emergent said 366 00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:11,240 you know with uh there's competition out there but it's not zero sums the more people that 367 00:35:11,240 --> 00:35:15,400 attracted to the ecosystem everyone gets the benefit um there's also wicked fun three days of 368 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:20,280 awesome uh conference actions so uh tickets are on sale on 15th and i will be one of the first 369 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:26,440 people to get my ticket um there's also incentives right there's also the incentives people uh who 370 00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:31,560 want to build who want to earn a profit who want to start a business who want to start some kind 371 00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:37,240 of organization um getting in early is always an important thing and this is not talking about a 372 00:35:37,240 --> 00:35:43,880 get rich quick scheme right this is talking about being an early mover in an industry is important 373 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:49,320 it's not the only thing but it's very important and if you play your cards well you can be extremely 374 00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:54,200 successful by doing that and the later people come to it you know it's already going to be the 375 00:35:54,200 --> 00:36:00,280 party's already started and you're not the center of the party anymore if you come to it late so 376 00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:06,760 yeah there's an incentive for these builders in networks that are currently on fire to put it 377 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:12,360 bluntly um you know to to maybe think about if there's somewhere else that they could build 378 00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:17,560 that would treat them better you know go somewhere that treats you well the network that works well 379 00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:23,960 treats your users well treats you as a builder well um yeah builders should be paying attention 380 00:36:25,240 --> 00:36:31,800 entrepreneurs yeah builders entrepreneurs or do you know what i would also say people with money 381 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:37,880 that want to team up with builders entrepreneurs everyone um i think you just put something on my 382 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:44,920 mind there you know about other networks burning to paraphrase and you know right now we've got 383 00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:50,920 hijacking bitcoin is doing its rounds it's definitely opened up a lot of eyes from what i've seen 384 00:36:50,920 --> 00:37:00,840 um in in people that were very pro the the bitcoin btc narrative and store of value um like what do 385 00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:07,000 you think of the impact of of that is do you think that like do you think the people's eyes are being 386 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:12,920 um made open as i see that and do you think or how do you think the bch can best stand to profit 387 00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:20,840 from those eyes being made wide open especially in considering the builders i wish we could 388 00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:25,160 get jeremy in here because he's he loves to talk about this topic and he's very good at talking 389 00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:31,000 about it but you know you get a party started you got to know what you're doing you got to make it 390 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:36,280 fun have it attractive make it work for people but you don't get out there and beg people the 391 00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:40,280 people that come in and are successful the entrepreneurs that come in they're going to 392 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:46,600 make bank and they're going to make reputations you know generational reputations by i mean because 393 00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:54,040 what we're really pushing is is bitcoin right is the original idea uh so as much as people think 394 00:37:54,040 --> 00:38:01,720 it's now been around for a while it's been stunted right so it's still at the early phases and and 395 00:38:01,720 --> 00:38:06,600 i'm not talking about price here right i'm talking i mean also maybe about price but i'm talking about 396 00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:12,920 uh people who went through the dot com boom uh back in you know around 2000 they've seen this 397 00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:22,440 where there's a an explosion of of stuff and it's all like 99 garbage but at the end of it 398 00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:30,200 you got google you got amazon you got tencent you got bitey you got all of the this absolute 399 00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:35,960 world-straddling giants that came out of it um and the same thing is going to happen with this 400 00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:45,000 with uh with with world money so yeah it's still early um as far as uh entrepreneurs and builders 401 00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:52,600 coming in sorry if i kind of sidestep your question there but no not at all it is great it's just yeah 402 00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:58,920 for what i what i see of bch is and i love this cultural shift is happening is uh away from like 403 00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:04,840 the sort of unfairness of the world and how it's treated to more like what's the future what's to 404 00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:11,080 come um and i agree entirely see exactly like the dot com bubble um and you know the only thing that 405 00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:15,560 concerns me about that particular example is the fact if you look at the top 10 or top 20 companies 406 00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:21,400 during the dot com bud like i don't believe that any company um of the of those top 10 or top 20 407 00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:30,920 exist today or existed well so uh um hopefully that's the position right now that's still 408 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:35,880 somewhat the position when right now right the the ones that look giant that might catch your eye if 409 00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:42,360 you came in and looked at the market with no idea what's going on they're on fire and it's not really 410 00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:47,400 visible necessarily until you get into it but uh they're on fire for a reason you know for very 411 00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:55,000 fundamental reasons and uh you know there may be some echoes of the dot com boom where the ones 412 00:39:55,000 --> 00:40:00,760 that that came out of it and and took over the world are not the ones who looked the flashiest 413 00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:08,040 or the biggest uh during them in the middle of the boom yeah exactly and if you you know using 414 00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:14,040 that example um you know there's pets.com there's barbecues.com um there was a lot of stuff that was 415 00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:21,400 put onto websites and you know really attractive domains had huge amounts of value um but in 416 00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:26,680 monetary value but but it wasn't serving actually or it wasn't leveraging the benefits of internet 417 00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:31,960 and so they all went to zero every single one um and there were so many of them and this is why you 418 00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:37,720 know using that analogy for me it's it's an obvious bet against uh bitcoin so theoretically 419 00:40:37,720 --> 00:40:43,640 is it possible that bitcoin btc um keeps its value and and and becomes a really good store of 420 00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:49,320 value yes it's possible right um and to paraphrase roger veer it's also like a stinky sock in this 421 00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:55,240 you know could also become become the same store of value it's it could happen but it's very very 422 00:40:55,240 --> 00:41:00,120 unlikely looking at all of the weight of evidence especially looking at any history and so anything 423 00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:05,240 that doesn't actually have a utility doesn't doesn't like leverage the technology or tools 424 00:41:05,240 --> 00:41:09,960 that it's using it will go towards it will head towards zero um it's just a matter of time which 425 00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:15,000 is again why i'm so excited about bitcoin cash because the community uh and everything that its 426 00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:20,600 whole ethos is about leveraging that utility as much as possible and increasingly adding to that 427 00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:27,160 utility so it becomes even better um and over time and the best form of money that will ever exist or 428 00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:32,120 has ever existed at the very least no definitely didn't side set the question love the answer 429 00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:37,880 uh i see that time is cracking i'm really excited i guess lots of people are excited about uh xo so 430 00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:44,840 in 2024 you teased a new wallet and software stack in xo and since then you've actually launched a 431 00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:51,080 website so anyone can check that out xo.cash and this new stack is designed to enable developers 432 00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:54,840 to create their own product through a much simpler process in a safe and secure way so 433 00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:58,920 in a nutshell what is xo looking to solve 434 00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:06,760 yep looking to solve two things one uh is the thing that we've always done which is 435 00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:13,960 hey we understand what's necessary for us and for bitcoin cash to go from where we are to the next 436 00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:19,640 level and to go to the next level we need all these things and then not only do you have to know it 437 00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:24,680 you have to actually put it in people's hands and make it available to them it's not enough to just 438 00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:28,920 say or to show or anything like that right you have to have to put it in people's hands so it's 439 00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:38,280 two parts one is building uh all the tooling necessary to let apps and entrepreneurs have an 440 00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:42,680 easy time of building apps and of course we're the first entrepreneur to get advantage of that 441 00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:47,480 that's the advantage of a first mover um we're going to take advantage of that and we're building 442 00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:55,240 this tooling so that it's inexpensive to make apps it's safer to make apps and uh yeah those are big 443 00:42:55,240 --> 00:43:00,760 those are big things inexpensive and safer to make and then the other is the xo wallet which is 444 00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:05,720 actually putting it in people's hands so there'll be the xo stack which is all of that tooling that 445 00:43:05,720 --> 00:43:11,560 makes everything possible that's gonna take us to the next level and then the xo wallet which is 446 00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:17,640 hey look here it is in your hands let's start using it today to do smart contracts finance 447 00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:25,000 uh vault family wallets that are shared with your family and uh all kinds of loans or you know like 448 00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:30,920 moria protocol which you were talking about all the things that you want to do you can do it easily 449 00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:35,720 with this and safer than you can today and the nice thing that we have is we have the benefit of 450 00:43:35,720 --> 00:43:41,720 hindsight we can look back and look at what happened in ethereum where it took off and had 451 00:43:41,720 --> 00:43:47,960 off and had you know absolute dominance just completely took over with tooling the number of 452 00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:54,440 people involved and so forth but they also made some big mistakes that are very hard to correct 453 00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:59,640 after the fact and we can look at those and say you know let's do better than that so we're aiming 454 00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:06,200 to do what consensus and others did for ethereum except learning from their mistakes and making it 455 00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:16,040 even better wow that's exciting so inexpensive and safer to make apps inexpensive i understand 456 00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:24,200 from this is easier people can produce more things right it's uh well well an analogy is good for 457 00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:29,880 anybody who's in crypto an analogy would help who people who aren't won't really understand it but 458 00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:34,600 if you're in crypto and you remember ethereum back in the day it was the the world computer and 459 00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:42,040 i think i heard that some people still call it that i don't know but um it was a big no it was a small 460 00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:49,400 pile of nerds working on things and it was all very technical extremely technical uh hard to work 461 00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:58,760 with you had to pay people literally like annually million dollar salaries uh to to do things because 462 00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:04,760 they were so rare so hard to find that such specialized knowledge that's not you know a sustainable 463 00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:10,200 way to grow an ecosystem and of course the the ecosystem there developed over time and became 464 00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:20,600 very sophisticated um so that whole process uh happened on eth in the same thing is going to 465 00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:25,240 happen here but it's important to remember right you don't compare two things that are are not the 466 00:45:25,240 --> 00:45:31,560 same right the the way ethereum started was extremely expensive extremely technical if you 467 00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:35,560 didn't know what you were doing you were absolutely hopeless to really do anything there but today 468 00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:42,200 it's easy and you know people can just copy paste start a thing up have a thing working um and so 469 00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:47,080 that's the place that we're going to um with the addition of hopefully learning some lessons so that 470 00:45:47,720 --> 00:45:52,920 we can have it just as easy for entrepreneurs to come in build their business and make use 471 00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:58,840 of permissionless money for the world 472 00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:06,440 yeah it sounds exactly what what the ecosystem needs and i'm really interested by this because 473 00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:17,240 the tooling of utxo is notoriously more bare bones than ethereum or abm chains 474 00:46:17,240 --> 00:46:24,200 um and this sounds like a nice important step towards getting parity uh for the builders on 475 00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:30,040 those chains and it sounds very much that general protocols has consensus on on the eyes of becoming 476 00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:37,080 that for the bch ecosystem which i guess many of us are very happy about um so just like looking 477 00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:41,400 and thinking about the wallet side um so you mentioned it on a sort of a high level maybe 478 00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:48,360 you could go in a bit deeper just about what exo wallet would offer the current wallets are deficient 479 00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:54,680 like what is it how do we interact with those with those apps you mentioned about moria 480 00:46:54,680 --> 00:47:00,920 just interested from a sort of uh john john needs to rejoin due to a twitter problem again 481 00:47:01,720 --> 00:47:07,800 this is what's crazy about twitter so you think about twitter um it can handle millions of of 482 00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:12,280 listeners and and you know and this has been done with elon musk and and donald trump there 483 00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:17,480 was millions of people listening and that's an incredible feat but just handing a small 484 00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:24,360 conversation with a couple of speakers that just cacks out every time so it's one of the miracles 485 00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:29,640 of the world but john i'm not sure if you heard the question but um if i need to repeat it's just 486 00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:33,320 about just going into a little more detail about your exo wallet oh you name you know you've been 487 00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:37,480 actually quite uh you've been relatively quiet i'd love to hear more of your wonderful voice 488 00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:45,400 which i somehow recognized you know but uh um uh i want to know what's with the exo wallet 489 00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:50,440 what is it that you're really looking to offer that currently the you know we've got a lot of 490 00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:55,320 wallets in the bch ecosystem there's a lot of competition there what benefits what's really 491 00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:59,720 going to set it aside from all the other wallets that john mentioned in there about you know it's 492 00:47:59,720 --> 00:48:04,680 using and tapping into that exo stacks being able to access those tools within the app like how does 493 00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:08,760 that look like and everything surrounding that that's going to make this the wallet that people 494 00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:16,600 are going to want to download and use uh so uh john is going to have a much more uh complete answer 495 00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:25,560 and uh i would defer to him on that but uh if you ask me personally uh what do i care most like the 496 00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:35,320 one thing i care most about exo uh is that uh we are going to have a much better trust model so 497 00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:43,160 instead of right is as opposed to right now uh when people talk about defy and you see all over 498 00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:48,280 the place all kinds of uh there are a lot of wallets out there but wallets all basically 499 00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:55,400 are operate on the same principles as the uh as the grand daddy of them all uh meta mask 500 00:48:56,760 --> 00:49:04,280 so if you look at how meta mask works it's it basically works on one principle um you go to a 501 00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:12,520 website you trust the website the end um you know like okay do a certain to a certain degree like 502 00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:20,680 if you are a dgen and if you are a dgen just looking to make bets and you know you have uh 503 00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:28,680 you go you go to some way but not all the way in terms of uh in terms of immersing yourself 504 00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:35,240 in permissionless money and you are willing to trust a lot of other things like dns and so forth 505 00:49:35,240 --> 00:49:42,440 all the you know establishment infrastructure that could be fine to a certain degree and some other 506 00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:48,120 and some other people in the bigger cash are you know following that model right now with uh you 507 00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:54,280 know just bare bones and so forth and that is and that is fine uh but i think you know 508 00:49:55,080 --> 00:50:01,800 personally i think uh we could do a lot we could do better than that and you know instead of trust 509 00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:11,800 instead of uh trusting websites we could trust code or templates uh so as to speak in to get 510 00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:19,720 better to get much better security and uh and also you know if you but that that is that is that is 511 00:50:19,720 --> 00:50:27,800 getting a little bit technical um so basically so basically uh so basically scaling that trust to 512 00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:37,080 a lot of different providers you are not locked into one website in one place and uh you don't 513 00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:43,480 have to make the compromise that okay you either uh you are either locked to trusting one uh web 514 00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:50,040 one website in one place uh by one person who's signing it because you're scared uh versus you 515 00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:55,640 just go freefall and go all the go to all the places and then you get scammed and defrauded um 516 00:50:57,000 --> 00:51:04,200 i think uh our vision is that you don't have to make that choice and you can have a smoothish 517 00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:12,440 response uh experience in all the places with reasonable security and uh that is uh that is 518 00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:19,240 not an easy task and that is what we're setting what we're setting our eyes on right now and so 519 00:51:19,240 --> 00:51:26,680 uh john would be able to give a more complete vision as well as uh jim who is also here as a speaker 520 00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:31,560 yeah yeah i'm back sorry about that jim did you have something you wanted to say did you want to 521 00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:38,200 jump in no no i think uh you kind of on file a minute so i was gonna let you like handle that one 522 00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:46,680 all right so the the guys doing the real work are are being quiet here but let me talk then i guess 523 00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:52,760 so that trust model that you named talked about that may sound like something technical or uh 524 00:51:52,760 --> 00:52:01,400 wonkish or whatever but uh think about it this way so bitcoin cash and general protocols have our eye 525 00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:09,480 on the prize which is right it's not some fuzzy thing it's not some kind of uh just get rich quick 526 00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:14,040 thing this is we're talking about eight billion people we literally want everyone in the world 527 00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:20,920 using it right it's not it's not some kind of uh turn of phrase we literally want everyone in the 528 00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:26,200 world using it right it's not a turn of phrase we literally want every person using it who is 529 00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:33,640 you know capable of of you know using a computer or a phone basically so we want eight billion 530 00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:38,440 people using it of course that doesn't happen overnight but when you're thinking about something 531 00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:44,200 like that you're thinking about a thing that is very different from what we have today and like 532 00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:48,840 we've talked before you have to be practical you can't just teleport to there right you've got to 533 00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:53,640 be there but one of the things is that when you're talking about eight billion people you're talking 534 00:52:53,640 --> 00:53:00,040 about everybody and that's like your mom your dad your grandparents your brother your sister your 535 00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:06,840 kids people who may not have any inclination whatsoever towards technical stuff right where 536 00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:13,080 apps using a mobile phone a smartphone in the first place is you know like kind of a limit and 537 00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:21,960 so this stuff has to be so easy to use and it has to be so bulletproof that it's very hard to screw 538 00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:27,880 up and for anybody who's built systems who's uh you know built uh user facing stuff like websites 539 00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:35,560 or whatever if you're really doing a good job it looks so easy and it feels simple and you don't 540 00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:41,720 really have any worry about it you don't even think about it doing something at that level is 541 00:53:41,720 --> 00:53:47,800 hard it's a lot of work and there's a ton of stuff going on under the hood of whatever it is you're 542 00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:55,480 doing that makes it easy for you and so that's the exo stack is the first steps in that direction 543 00:53:55,480 --> 00:54:01,960 where we're saying you want to deal with money you want to deal with apps that deal with money 544 00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:09,960 that's loans speculation some kind of marketplaces sending and receiving saving putting your money 545 00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:15,560 into a vault where you can only take it out after you've given approval and then a week later the 546 00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:20,280 money can't come out for a week and so forth you know like a bank vault type thing all of those 547 00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:29,240 kind of things that you can do are possible but to do them today requires trust in bad places place 548 00:54:29,240 --> 00:54:35,960 that you don't want to put it which is on things like website domains or uh anyway the the way that 549 00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:42,760 it works is not something that's safe and so this is our first step moving it that one step forward 550 00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:49,240 to where it becomes safer and easier for people to use uh and for app developers to build things 551 00:54:49,240 --> 00:54:53,640 where they don't have to know all those details and it's still going to be safe for them and 552 00:54:53,640 --> 00:55:01,160 it's going to be easy for them to build i'm really excited by this this sounds exactly what's required 553 00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:06,280 um yeah at the moment you know i've delved into the world of tokens for the first time and it's 554 00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:12,760 not really my scene i wasn't there with bch uh smart bch um not so much anyway um but but now 555 00:55:12,760 --> 00:55:18,520 i've sort of gone into this world a little bit um with uh with bitcoin cash and you know the the 556 00:55:18,520 --> 00:55:26,760 tools are all there to have some fun today um but when using um wallet connect to to interact with 557 00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:37,160 cauldron or um cash studio um cash token studio uh you have to sign the transaction and of course to 558 00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:44,280 to i guess 99 of the people they're using it you've just got a load of information and of course 559 00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:50,200 there's trust here uh because i yeah i signed the transaction pretty pretty uh good idea of what it's 560 00:55:50,200 --> 00:55:58,600 intended to do um to to release the the tokens or to send the tokens or whatever um but but if i was 561 00:55:58,600 --> 00:56:05,560 to try and show show this to my sister or my mom my grand or someone they're gonna be not just 562 00:56:05,560 --> 00:56:09,880 slightly over challenged they're gonna look at that and just laugh and be like yeah no what is that 563 00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:17,800 yeah i can give the audience an analogy that that's uh very direct and i think anybody who's uh 564 00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:24,120 worked with a bank before can understand so you walk into a bank and there's this really uh slick 565 00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:29,080 guy girl whoever they're you know working at the bank sits you down you're like i need a loan 566 00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:34,280 for you know a thousand dollars and they're like sure no problem we can do that here's how it works 567 00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:38,200 it's gonna be like this it's gonna be great it does what you need and you're like wait but i need 568 00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:43,160 that and it's like it does that too okay you talk about it and you're like okay this is awesome this 569 00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:46,600 is gonna be great this loan is exactly what i need and you know and it works in the way that 570 00:56:46,600 --> 00:56:53,080 works for me and i'm gonna be able to pay it back everything's beautiful and the the bank guy slides 571 00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:59,000 across the desk to you a piece of paper and it's just like all redacted or it's just gibberish it's 572 00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:05,400 just complete nonsense and they're like trust me all that stuff we talked about is right here 573 00:57:06,120 --> 00:57:13,480 you can't read it but trust me this is a very bad trust model right that's what uname was talking 574 00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:18,440 about with the trust model that's exactly how those things work today with wallet connect 575 00:57:20,120 --> 00:57:25,720 so that's not a good place to be right you you don't want to get a piece of paper that you 576 00:57:25,720 --> 00:57:33,080 completely literally cannot read but that's the way the trust model is today so we've got to do 577 00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:38,840 better than that clearly and that's a you know low-hanging fruit that we're working on with xo so 578 00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:44,280 that you don't get that when the paper comes across the table to you you know it's something that 579 00:57:44,840 --> 00:57:50,920 you can understand and you look at it and says i'm gonna make a contract for this much money with 580 00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:59,240 this person and it lasts 30 days and you know these are the terms and you know those terms that 581 00:57:59,240 --> 00:58:03,960 are written there are something that you can trust and i could get into why you can trust that 582 00:58:03,960 --> 00:58:10,440 because that's really important why you can trust that but uh yeah does that analogy help like it 583 00:58:10,440 --> 00:58:14,280 comes across the table you have no idea what it is that's a terrible trust model we got it's a 584 00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:19,800 perfect analogy it's an it's a great analogy and so basically the way that i uh base my decision 585 00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:25,240 when when signing that is i would never uh put too much bch or right of tokens that i'm willing to 586 00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:31,960 lose because and what i'm thinking about is the person who whose wallet i'm using um he has got 587 00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:38,760 set up a company and i'm also thinking well his his name is out there and his company um you know 588 00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:43,640 he basically if he messes up with this his company's over and his whole livelihood's over so that's 589 00:58:43,640 --> 00:58:49,640 what so it's it's trust-based of course and that trust only goes up to a certain amount so would i 590 00:58:49,640 --> 00:58:55,480 stick you know my life savings on that no way you know zero chance this is where exactly help with 591 00:58:55,480 --> 00:59:00,760 that and this is one of those things where what's going to be different with permissionless global 592 00:59:00,760 --> 00:59:08,360 money is costs come down and that's just such a small thing but it's such a huge thing really in 593 00:59:08,360 --> 00:59:14,680 reality the costs of things come down and the cost that comes down here is the cost of trust 594 00:59:14,680 --> 00:59:19,480 because for you to trust that paper that you actually can't read a single word on it 595 00:59:20,040 --> 00:59:24,680 you have to have a lot of trust in that bank or whoever it is that's sitting across the table from 596 00:59:24,680 --> 00:59:31,080 you and that's more or less how things are today really you go to a bank and you get a contract and 597 00:59:31,080 --> 00:59:36,680 shit you you better have a lawyer with you if you really want to understand what that contract says 598 00:59:38,360 --> 00:59:45,320 and that's a very expensive trust model and it depends on some very large centralized actors 599 00:59:46,200 --> 00:59:50,120 to develop that trust right that that they're going to keep going and have that lindy effect 600 00:59:50,120 --> 00:59:55,800 that they're going to be here tomorrow that's a very costly thing and that costs society a lot 601 00:59:55,800 --> 01:00:02,200 to need to depend on those big central actors and so with with permissionless money and these trust 602 01:00:02,200 --> 01:00:07,720 models that you name was talking about the cost of that trust comes down dramatically where you 603 01:00:07,720 --> 01:00:11,960 can get into a loan and not have to worry that much about it you don't even have to know who 604 01:00:11,960 --> 01:00:17,800 the person across from the table is as long as you know what's on that contract so yeah the cost of 605 01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:22,920 things will come down that's uh for the entrepreneurs right the the people who are entrepreneurs and they 606 01:00:22,920 --> 01:00:28,360 see oh wait i can do the same thing that others are doing but i can do it 10x or 100x cheaper 607 01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:38,120 huh there's something there yeah and to add to that so today you know we we sign we sign away a 608 01:00:38,120 --> 01:00:43,720 lot of things when we buy when we buy stuff or just do anything on the internet or even off the 609 01:00:43,720 --> 01:00:52,040 internet really so today uh you know if you go out and buy an iphone okay you sign a piece of paper 610 01:00:52,680 --> 01:00:58,920 you sign a piece you sign several pieces of paper actually the terms are pretty long uh and you sign 611 01:00:58,920 --> 01:01:05,880 that and then okay you say that okay i i will spend the time because iphones are expensive i 612 01:01:05,880 --> 01:01:10,840 will spend the time and read all that and make sure no shenanigans are going on um so you do that 613 01:01:10,840 --> 01:01:16,200 but you can't do that every time so you buy an iphone today you buy a computer tomorrow and then 614 01:01:16,200 --> 01:01:21,320 you buy a graphics card the next day you keep signing papers and then eventually you know one 615 01:01:21,320 --> 01:01:28,040 of them can slip in a clause that says oh by the way you are not just buying this graphics card 616 01:01:28,040 --> 01:01:33,400 you are also signing away you know you're first born or something like that uh and then you're 617 01:01:33,400 --> 01:01:41,080 screwed so um the way we deal with that today as a society is that okay then i will go to a court 618 01:01:41,080 --> 01:01:48,440 and engage in a multi-year lawsuit with you uh that says you can't have me sign away my first board 619 01:01:48,440 --> 01:01:56,360 that is expensive that is really expensive uh what if you know we you sign a when you sign away a 620 01:01:56,360 --> 01:02:03,800 paper um the first time you can see that okay this thing is this thing follows some rules that says 621 01:02:03,800 --> 01:02:10,040 okay i just i am buying this thing and i have some warranties and then the next time you sign 622 01:02:10,040 --> 01:02:16,440 you can you can say that okay i'm signing the same time the same type of paper uh the price and the 623 01:02:16,440 --> 01:02:22,520 product differs but it's also about some warranty and not about some other weird shit that i would 624 01:02:22,520 --> 01:02:30,040 never expect it to that's an improvement um it brings the cost of everything down dramatically 625 01:02:30,040 --> 01:02:36,440 especially trust so and i know you don't have time but i don't care i'm going to jump in before you 626 01:02:36,440 --> 01:02:41,560 can stop me finish so another aspect of this for the entrepreneurs and people out there who are 627 01:02:41,560 --> 01:02:47,960 thinking about building uh who see some potential here is again the the the costs coming down uh 628 01:02:47,960 --> 01:02:53,800 like you name was talking about not only the cost of the trust but the cost of resolving uh conflicts 629 01:02:53,800 --> 01:02:59,240 all of those kind of costs can come down and then another cost that that is going to be insane this 630 01:02:59,240 --> 01:03:06,200 is going to change this sounds so stupid but it's going to change everything is that when you want 631 01:03:06,200 --> 01:03:12,440 to uh like enter one of these loan contracts like i was using as an analogy with what you name is 632 01:03:12,440 --> 01:03:17,160 talking about you've got a standardized maybe you've got a hundred different standardized 633 01:03:17,160 --> 01:03:20,600 contracts but let's see you've got this one particular one that you think is a good one 634 01:03:21,320 --> 01:03:28,760 that contract is super standardized anyone can use that you don't have to have a bank use that 635 01:03:29,320 --> 01:03:34,280 if you use that contract with me you can use the same contract with a giant bank you can make the 636 01:03:34,280 --> 01:03:38,840 same contract with you know somebody halfway around the world that you've never met before 637 01:03:39,560 --> 01:03:43,160 you can make that contract because it's standardized you know exactly how it works 638 01:03:43,160 --> 01:03:48,920 and this is you know standardization is uh just one of the the bread and butters of of modern 639 01:03:48,920 --> 01:03:53,880 economy um you standardize things you make them extremely cheap everybody knows exactly how it 640 01:03:53,880 --> 01:04:01,720 works uh now you don't you know all of those costs have come down uh the cost of fine yeah 641 01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:07,160 yeah i could keep going on but all these costs keep dropping here and this is where you get into 642 01:04:07,160 --> 01:04:15,720 the you know to disrupt the system because uh fiat is a very probably the most heavily entrenched 643 01:04:16,920 --> 01:04:23,720 system and it's very well known that to to disrupt and compete with something that's well entrenched 644 01:04:23,720 --> 01:04:29,560 you have to 10x you have to 100x you have to do a thousand x better than uh than they already 645 01:04:29,560 --> 01:04:34,920 provide for people to really consider trying something else and these kind of cost cutting 646 01:04:34,920 --> 01:04:40,840 is one of the big places where there's an advantage that centralized systems just cannot compete with 647 01:04:41,400 --> 01:04:48,920 without guns basically but you know we'll see how things go but uh yeah so for people considering 648 01:04:48,920 --> 01:04:55,080 getting into it these uh cost reductions are really a significant thing they're not uh they're not a 649 01:04:55,080 --> 01:05:03,000 sideshow cost reductions not being a side thing if only one side of the bitcoin crew understood 650 01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:08,200 that yes and it's really it's critical for mass adoption and as you say we've got a it's not just 651 01:05:08,200 --> 01:05:12,520 about like being slightly better than fiat that that's not going to cut it so it has to be an 652 01:05:12,520 --> 01:05:19,400 entirely new thing has been like notably better and more useful more practical easier all all 653 01:05:19,400 --> 01:05:25,320 these things so that we can get those eight billion people using it um i've actually missed out it's 654 01:05:25,320 --> 01:05:32,120 a really important thing fiendish shout out number one from bruno aria vpn dot net a bunch of self 655 01:05:32,120 --> 01:05:36,360 licensed cypher punks at your service so thanks for that shout out there's a hundred thousand 656 01:05:36,360 --> 01:05:42,920 fiendish uh sorry uh emerald well spent there um if you want to um have a fiendish shout out live 657 01:05:42,920 --> 01:05:48,840 on there you just send a hundred thousand uh emeralds um to myself um but to come back to 658 01:05:48,840 --> 01:05:54,040 that point i know we're over time um but it's it's really important i think to to think about 659 01:05:54,040 --> 01:05:59,960 what actually trustless means so i hear this i've read this quite often in telegram um hey this is 660 01:05:59,960 --> 01:06:05,160 trustless you know well why why is it trustless well it's because it's open source right but have 661 01:06:05,160 --> 01:06:10,680 you actually read the open source no but i'm trusting that someone else has done it so well 662 01:06:10,680 --> 01:06:16,840 and without any sense of irony there um and and of course like open source yes someone can read it 663 01:06:16,840 --> 01:06:21,000 but the reason why when i'm looking for software for the mac for example i've got a mac now i'm a 664 01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:27,000 windows guy historically but finding like certain apps um it's really difficult because i'm on uh 665 01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:31,320 the windows version is not why it's normally just windows it's not on macs then i have to find some 666 01:06:31,320 --> 01:06:37,400 obscure code that's on github um and you know it's open source does that mean it's trustless no of 667 01:06:37,400 --> 01:06:42,840 course not i don't know i can't bet it i can't trust it um and so that's why it's really good 668 01:06:42,840 --> 01:06:46,120 when you have this sort of you know mainstream products that are open source because there's a 669 01:06:46,120 --> 01:06:50,600 lot of people that are looking into this but you're still trusting the people that know how to look 670 01:06:50,600 --> 01:06:56,600 into that to do that and then to flag it when when some things there is odd so this idea of trustless 671 01:06:56,600 --> 01:07:00,520 i i get the feeling people have a misunderstanding or misconception about this because in the end 672 01:07:00,520 --> 01:07:04,440 nothing's really trustless you can just make it more more trustless and and what i love about the 673 01:07:04,440 --> 01:07:10,680 idea behind xo is to standardize this to have this put in a format that everyone can understand 674 01:07:10,680 --> 01:07:16,920 and that they know that this is like based on you know there's a contract model which is standardized 675 01:07:16,920 --> 01:07:20,600 so if there's any changes to it well it's not going to fit anymore so i guess it wouldn't 676 01:07:20,600 --> 01:07:24,520 even show up in your wallet which just is something that would be would be accepted by it 677 01:07:24,520 --> 01:07:30,440 um and this is for me this is absolutely a critical next step or a stepping stone towards 678 01:07:30,440 --> 01:07:35,800 where we want to go there's eight billion users of bitcoin cash so yeah this this is a great 679 01:07:35,800 --> 01:07:40,040 proposition um and really looking forward to seeing some more news about this which is the 680 01:07:40,040 --> 01:07:44,600 really important question i guess loads of people if not everyone on the call is waiting for is 681 01:07:45,240 --> 01:07:51,400 when are we going to see xo stack release and the wallet is this something we can expect this year 682 01:07:51,400 --> 01:07:59,560 this year or is this beyond 2025 oh what'd you say i couldn't hear you anyway i saw this thing 683 01:07:59,560 --> 01:08:09,560 from matthew on no it's uh yeah it'll come when it comes no we're not gonna put put dates on things 684 01:08:09,560 --> 01:08:15,480 because you know what i said about when you work with something that's very simple and very safe 685 01:08:15,480 --> 01:08:21,160 and it's so easy to use either that's for a builder or an entrepreneur or for a user there's a lot 686 01:08:21,160 --> 01:08:25,560 going on in the hood and that's something that we're working on right now is all those a lot of 687 01:08:25,560 --> 01:08:33,000 details so yeah i'd prefer not to put a date on things at this point but uh we will be putting 688 01:08:33,000 --> 01:08:40,360 out little bits and pieces as we go um and jim and myself jonathan uh devprit who's on here 689 01:08:41,080 --> 01:08:46,360 we're all working on it uh every day harvey who's also in the audience there is is working on it 690 01:08:46,360 --> 01:08:51,320 we're all working on this every day so uh we will be releasing some pieces to to let people 691 01:08:51,960 --> 01:08:57,560 participate in it because it's all going to be open source as we release it right um so yeah we'll 692 01:08:57,560 --> 01:09:03,480 be getting there over time but it's not something i want to put a date on fair enough understood so 693 01:09:03,480 --> 01:09:07,640 you mentioned a couple people that's a devprit he's also a speaker james i haven't got the second 694 01:09:07,640 --> 01:09:16,440 name there or augustus um and you mentioned someone else uh so these are also now uh are these uh are 695 01:09:16,440 --> 01:09:21,160 you guys working with general protocols um are you contracting i'm just looking at the website i'm 696 01:09:21,160 --> 01:09:31,160 not seeing your name so assume you're new to the team different yeah uh but for me i work under 697 01:09:31,160 --> 01:09:38,520 yeah different names so uh yeah and i've been with gp for probably two years three years maybe 698 01:09:39,320 --> 01:09:43,800 uh but yeah no i've worked on like a few different projects for the gp 699 01:09:48,440 --> 01:09:54,280 yeah anybody who knows how much work jim has done in bch and for gp and hearing him say a few 700 01:09:54,280 --> 01:10:00,920 different projects is uh yeah maybe well at least 225 it's definitely the biggest understatement of 701 01:10:00,920 --> 01:10:06,040 2025 so far i can't really see the picture but is this the gym that's on the website or 702 01:10:08,120 --> 01:10:14,840 or not okay yeah that'll be me yep yep all right okay then yeah then i do know yeah of course 703 01:10:14,840 --> 01:10:21,880 you're you're very busy man then then now i've drawn the dots um yeah okay brilliant and uh 704 01:10:21,880 --> 01:10:30,440 different then i i guess so that was james yeah yeah the picture the picture i have the picture 705 01:10:30,440 --> 01:10:40,360 i have in my profile is not no it's not really me just a writer uh yeah i've been i've been i've 706 01:10:40,360 --> 01:10:52,680 been working with gp from uh more than a year now i uh yeah mainly on bch bull uh the bch bull up 707 01:10:53,880 --> 01:11:02,760 trying to implement some stuff to make it to work flawlessly uh connection monitors uh 708 01:11:02,760 --> 01:11:11,240 uh some new features etc the the the early settlement uh functionality 709 01:11:11,960 --> 01:11:20,840 uh yeah recently i also was representing the company on the bch argentina conference which 710 01:11:21,720 --> 01:11:32,120 was great and i i i mean it's been an honor to to to to be working on gp with such amazing 711 01:11:32,120 --> 01:11:38,360 people uh and colleagues and learning all the time learning from them because 712 01:11:38,360 --> 01:11:46,920 they are extremely intelligent i respect them a lot yeah yeah awesome well it's glad to have so 713 01:11:46,920 --> 01:11:52,840 many people working from general protocols on the call um and yeah the time's cracking on and we 714 01:11:52,840 --> 01:11:58,600 need to wrap it up but my final question to to all of you uh will you be attending bch bliss 715 01:11:58,600 --> 01:12:01,640 and if not i want a full understanding why not 716 01:12:05,400 --> 01:12:11,880 some of us might i got my uh i got my ticket uh i applied to be a builder for the conference 717 01:12:11,880 --> 01:12:17,960 so i got uh build it well because gp is sponsoring right so we have the the ticket 718 01:12:17,960 --> 01:12:23,720 okay but yeah some of us some of us may be going um i don't want to say who all is gonna go but 719 01:12:23,720 --> 01:12:30,360 yeah we'll see because there's a potentially another conference right there's there's a second 720 01:12:30,360 --> 01:12:36,840 conference there's the one in uh australia there may be one in argentina again so wow there's so 721 01:12:36,840 --> 01:12:40,760 many but listen everyone that's listening you know for those of you like me i've got a huge bet it 722 01:12:40,760 --> 01:12:48,440 could break me um i've got a bet that we're gonna sell 150 seats and uh and i so i need i need 723 01:12:48,440 --> 01:12:51,480 personally as many people to turn up there as possible otherwise i might have to sell my house 724 01:12:51,480 --> 01:12:57,960 you know i think it's 100 euros something the bet is it's pretty big so uh no i want everyone 725 01:12:57,960 --> 01:13:03,400 to go to bch bliss because it was an amazing conference and having so many great-minded 726 01:13:03,400 --> 01:13:09,960 people um in one room in one space uh for a couple of days uh for me that was really such a great 727 01:13:09,960 --> 01:13:15,480 experience a humbling experience and uh the and i'm convinced as well that you know having so 728 01:13:15,480 --> 01:13:21,640 many people together in bch network it allows the the growth of the community allows for new 729 01:13:21,640 --> 01:13:26,120 you know businesses new enterprises new new collections of people that come together and 730 01:13:26,120 --> 01:13:31,160 push forward with their ideas um but it's also you know i want to see that that growth so last 731 01:13:31,160 --> 01:13:40,120 last year uh i think it was 70 70 tickets were sold so if i'm keeping you honest um and uh and 732 01:13:40,120 --> 01:13:45,240 this year i'd love to see a good doubling of that you know because i'm sure everyone that's seen 733 01:13:45,240 --> 01:13:50,840 bch from last year and or spoke to anyone that went the the feedback was enormously positive and 734 01:13:50,840 --> 01:13:55,800 which is why why it's being held again so uh love to see general protocols there in all of its glory 735 01:13:55,800 --> 01:14:02,520 and force and um uh i hope to hope to see as many of the listeners too joining tickets should be 736 01:14:02,520 --> 01:14:06,600 available it was a fantastic conference it was a fantastic conference i can't believe you've already 737 01:14:06,600 --> 01:14:11,080 got so much just just because you're sponsoring it you know that's that's outrageous you know i 738 01:14:11,080 --> 01:14:17,400 feel completely pushed out here so i need to speak to you where's my ticket 200 million volume and 739 01:14:17,400 --> 01:14:23,080 you're in so you guys okay that's no problem i look at that doing that this afternoon just after t 740 01:14:23,080 --> 01:14:29,560 time go for it get on it all right so the time is well past uh i think i have to make it an hour and 741 01:14:29,560 --> 01:14:34,520 a quarter so we're well past an hour so it's the time for the end of phoenix and friends episode 742 01:14:34,520 --> 01:14:41,880 seven so thank you so much uh john you name desperate and jim for coming and joining today 743 01:14:41,880 --> 01:14:46,680 it was an absolute pleasure hope you enjoyed it too for all your listeners please make sure to 744 01:14:46,680 --> 01:14:52,840 follow all of the speakers on twitter including their business handles at general protocol and 745 01:14:52,840 --> 01:14:58,920 also bch underscore bull if you want to speculate your bch your head again hedge against gold btc 746 01:14:58,920 --> 01:15:04,760 silver along with several other assets then please check out bch bull.com the links to all the 747 01:15:04,760 --> 01:15:09,560 websites are in the comments to the spaces for all your listeners if you enjoyed the show and 748 01:15:09,560 --> 01:15:14,040 want to show your appreciation please feel free to drop some bch or a phoenix token into our wallet 749 01:15:14,040 --> 01:15:18,920 the cash token address is in the description of our twitter profile and there's also a qr code in 750 01:15:18,920 --> 01:15:23,880 the comments the next episode of phoenix and friends is at one o'clock central european time 751 01:15:23,880 --> 01:15:29,960 next friday and it's featuring goblin cash's founder jacobs delta to talk about bch divine 752 01:15:29,960 --> 01:15:36,360 perpetual options panoptic and goblin cash can we get that onto bch let's see just make sure to pop 753 01:15:36,360 --> 01:15:41,720 some phoenix tokens into the jukebox and hit play to convert tokenized phoenix time into an entire 754 01:15:41,720 --> 01:15:46,760 60 minutes i guess 60 minutes plus would be more accurate of the greatest bitcoin cash news and 755 01:15:46,760 --> 01:15:54,120 updates with the sorry shit i've seen cheapies snuck in here um the second best news bitcoin 756 01:15:54,120 --> 01:16:00,040 cash and updates with the most important players in the crypto scene have a fantastic 2025 all you 757 01:16:00,040 --> 01:16:05,720 p2p cash monsters this was phoenix and friends and i wish you all a good morning a good day and good 758 01:16:05,720 --> 01:16:17,560 night