Hi all you Bitcoin Cash lovers and welcome to Fiendish and Friends episode 6. Real money, real tokens, real talk.
We've got an excellent episode lined up today
featuring, as long as we don't have any more technical hiccup of course, featuring the splendid duo Zapit's CEO
Romit Goswami and the CTO Kuldeep Grewal.
They're here to discuss Zapit wallet, gaming and Zapit reward points, their work within the BCH ecosystem and adoption in India.
Phoenix and Friends is rewarding its live listeners to a stash of up to 50,000 emeralds. Just listen live and retweet the spaces.
I might have to retweet the new one, but if you've retweeted the old one, that's also will count. We'll let you off this one once.
More details can be found on the Twitter, on our Twitter profile or in the Phoenix and Friends Telegram group.
The news of the week. So Hot Off the Heels from the 2025 BCH upgrade begins and VMLM.
BCH developer Jason Drazen takes no time for a break and instead proposals three new chips for the May 2026 BCH upgrade.
What a dude. Chip 2021-05, loop introducing bounded looping operations to the BCH virtual machine.
Chip 2024-12, OpEval allowing for function evaluation and Chip-12P2S standardizing pay to script outputs and with it improving wallet ecosystem safety through simplifying contract design.
So there is just no pause for BCH development. I love it.
Two important BCH fundraisers reached their goal over the last week. PurelyPeer, a decentralized peer-based advertising platform, has reached its goal of 180 BCH,
greenlighting the work to continue development on its innovative approach of using micro ads from local businesses to reward its users and promote a purely peer-to-peer BCH economy.
And Chipie, founder of the Bitcoin Cash Foundation, who was actually on Finish From Friends a few episodes ago, hit his FUN-ME goal of 120 BCH,
enabling him to continue his excellent work in supporting and grow the BCH ecosystem of regular news updates in all formats and doing the important jobs and coordination work that no one wants to do.
So congratulations, Chipie.
Lastly, Roger Bear, famous Bitcoin proponent, continues making waves with his hijacking Bitcoin book and story. And he was actually featured on Alex Jones' Infowars this week,
causing a lot of people to question whether Bitcoin BTC has in fact been co-opted and looking for potential solutions or even alternatives such as Bitcoin Cash to continue the Bitcoin dream of usable peer-to-peer cash for the world.
That was the news.
Without further ado, please welcome Zapitz, Romet and Kordip onto the mic.
Hi, guys.
It's been a while since we last spoke, maybe even a year or two in person.
Welcome to Finish From Friends.
Thanks for having us.
Thank you.
Thank you for having us.
Thank you for being here.
It's an absolute pleasure.
So as this is the first time you've both been on this particular series, so Finish From Friends, it'd be great for the new people into the ecosystem.
So just a little bit of an understanding about who you guys are, what you're about, what made you come together to form Zapit.
Sure.
So, yeah, Zapit started off as a regular just BCH wallet.
I think at the time when there were very fewer BCH wallets available, especially on the phone and specifically to target the Indian demography.
There were not many teams working on trying to get adoption done in India.
And it's kind of lagging there.
So we thought, OK, we support the idea behind BCH and we wanted to take it forward.
So we thought introducing payment solutions using Bitcoin Cash through a wallet and introducing more services could be one of the ways that we can actually achieve that.
So since 2020, we have been at it.
It's been about four years, more than four years now that we've been doing this.
And yeah, we have a lot of ups and downs, a lot of left and rights, I would say, in terms of adoption and the kind of services that we've offered over the years.
We have tried out a lot of things.
A few things have worked better than the others, of course.
So, yeah, I'll just leave it at that for a brief, maybe Kundeep can tell a little bit about himself.
Sure. Thank you.
So I'm a software engineer as a professional for the better part of the entire decade.
I met Rumi in 2020, 2019, but then after some time, I got to know that he's interested in this working on such a wallet.
So I wanted to work on Bitcoin Cash because by that time I had enough knowledge to reduce that BCH is the one that has a lot of potential.
And of course, just like everyone, everybody in this podcast, it is the B2B Cash.
So I wanted to work on it.
And we basically figured out how we are going to work on this token, this entire project, this Appet project.
And yeah, as Robit said, lots of ups and downs have happened along the way.
We've built really good products so far and a lot of exciting news for all of you that we have in this podcast.
Yeah, cool.
And it's really, really great to hear about why, when you came into the space and why.
Robit, you said that you had to get alluded to the ups and downs, the successes and failures that you've had there and the things that worked, the things that didn't work.
I'd love to hear a little bit more about that.
So let's start with the negatives. Get out of the way.
What have you learned? What didn't work?
Yeah, so I guess we did try a few things related to payment related services to allow Indian users to actually use BCH in their day-to-day life payments.
But I guess the biggest hurdle that we face is regulatory issues, right?
Because as much as the government is OK allowing trading of cryptocurrencies, they want to try and curb as much as possible the payment aspect of cryptocurrencies.
Because it does undermine their own currency and their own payment systems that they've built.
So yeah, all the kind of regulations that they introduce made our business model kind of not work anymore.
Yeah, that's one of the major issues that we have definitely faced.
So we tried a lot of things. We also tried merchant adoption, like on the ground merchant adoption.
I think in India it's a little bit more harder because there's just so many merchants.
It's almost impossible to go to millions of merchants and onboard them.
The cost to benefit ratio there is actually quite low.
And yeah, I think another big hurdle is the internal financial system that we have within the Indian system itself, like having the UPI payments.
I don't remember when it kicked things off in India.
Probably about a decade ago is when it started, I guess.
But yeah, it really took off in 2017-18 when there was demonetization within the country, when all the cash notes were basically called back.
And it was said that it was no more usable as cash anymore.
So that basically led everybody to start using digital payments.
So if you actually go anywhere literally across the country, anywhere you can find QR codes,
people are using payment apps to make payments, scanning QR codes and making payments.
Everybody became familiar with that already.
And it was instant. It's literally within a second you can make a payment and it's for free.
So there's no fees attached to it.
Yeah, trying to advertise the benefits of BCH kind of became almost irrelevant for majority of the people because they didn't really see a difference anymore.
The fast transactions, cheap transactions didn't make sense anymore because they had that in the traditional system itself.
So yeah, that was another big hurdle that we faced.
So our payment system did kind of integrate into the UPI system to make it seamless in that way.
But yeah, so the regulatory issues came up after that.
OK, so the regulatory issues. So right today, I mean, the law in India, from what I can see, it seems to be there are certain things that changes quite a bit.
And some of it was a bit unclear to me.
But today, as I understand it, it's not legal for BCH to tap into the UPI network.
So you can't offer that in your wallet anymore. Is that correct?
No, so it's a little bit more indirect in that sense.
So before there was only taxation, like since 2022, there was only taxation laws that applied.
It said that every single transaction required a 1% CDS, which is tax deducted at source.
Like at the time of transaction, you deduct 1% whenever there was any kind of conversion from crypto to rupees.
Apart from that, there was a capital gains kind of attacks where if you made profits on your trades or investment on crypto, you pay 30% on the profits that you make.
So those were the only two regulations that was there at the time that we thought of introducing UPI.
So about a year later, maybe a year and a half after that, they actually introduced something called a PMLA, which is Prevention of Money Laundering Act,
which said that the users who sell crypto, the fiat can only be sent to their bank account.
It cannot be sent to any other bank account.
So the way our UPI system worked is any user would basically make a crypto payment, right?
But then the fiat could be sent from us to any merchant.
Like even the merchant wouldn't know that a crypto payment has been made.
That's how we build the entire system.
But the rule came out so that whoever sold the crypto, the rupees could be only sent to their bank account.
And that was required by regulation.
It was put under the Prevention of Money Laundering Act, but in a way, it was to prevent payments to take place.
So that was a big issue.
And this is the thing.
So, I mean, for me, yes, it's not directly making it illegal, but that's the outcome.
And the intent behind it, I think, is pretty clear.
I mean, to try and ban crypto itself in banning...
Because how would you legally create a framework to ban something like that?
It's essentially like banning words, banning data.
So they're going after it by different methods.
That's certainly my take on that.
So they make it so that it's just basically so much friction that it doesn't really work anymore.
So that's a real shame because, of course, UPI have been to India several times.
And UPI is something you see, I think, when you just land in the airport.
So in Mumbai, you'll see UPI posters and something that's quite a big standard in India.
And being able to spend your crypto via that would have been huge, of course, so much potential there.
And I appreciate, since Bitcoin was invented and Bitcoin Cash, back then, banking was very slow.
Today, it's so much faster, so much more efficient.
They had a lot of time to play catch up.
But the idea is still that you have this currency that you could hold and no one could confiscate from you.
And also, it doesn't depreciate via inflation.
It's still a very attractive thing.
It's a shame that there's this roadblock there with the laws that are put in India.
So what do you see?
We get lost on this conversation, actually.
That's the negative side of things.
We can come back to that maybe, the UPI and the future in India.
But what are the things that you figured out worked well for Zapit?
And you thought, OK, now we're hitting our stride or this was a really smart move?
Yeah, so I guess the two biggest things that worked was the two latest things that we launched since 2023, I guess,
which is the P2P exchange and our gaming recently.
Although it's been just a couple of months since we launched the gaming,
it has actually seen a lot more traction than any other service that we have actually or feature that we have launched.
You know, building a wallet is not exactly the easiest thing to do, especially as a business,
because you need to introduce some way to make revenue.
You need to have some services, collaborations, and things like that to actually make money.
And you need to have enough volume to generate enough profits to keep the revenue to become profitable.
So yeah, I guess I would say that in our P2P exchange, we saw over $1 or $2 million worth of liquidity that was available.
And through gaming, the highest I think we did over 10,000 games that's being played per day, which is a lot.
I think about 40.
Yes, and about 30 to 40 percent of that were actually ZRP based games.
So of course, we will get into the gaming thing maybe a little later.
But so there is a section where users can actually pay with ZRP or ZRP and they can actually play the game.
At the height, it was about 40 percent, almost 40 percent of the games were being played through ZRP.
So yeah.
That's amazing. All right.
So thumbs up here to all listeners who thought or thought.
No, definitely thumbs up here for everyone that thinks 10,000 games being played in one day on Zappi Wallet is pretty freaking impressive.
There's my thumb up.
Anyone for me, 10,000 games in one day.
That's crazy.
That's really huge.
Much higher than I thought there would be.
So that's just within two months.
So that's where you've been seeing the most traction.
And most of it is organic anyway.
So yes, even we were surprised by that.
Yeah.
And it's surprisingly the numbers, but it doesn't surprise me at all.
The gaming is where you're seeing the biggest traction, because I think this is where, you know, where BCH maybe has been missing out a little bit because, you know, it's like I'm a big fan of VR too.
And when Apple brought out the headset with any games, I was really shocked.
Well, that's not going to sell anything because games drive drive things.
You know, the gaming industry is massive.
It's fun.
And it just works really well with crypto.
You know, you can earn your you play your games and your tokens.
So fantastic to see that that being used so much.
And how does that impact like revenue?
Does that have does that have a bottom line to it?
Are you seeing revenue in there or is it more about just growing user base right at this stage?
Yeah.
The funny thing is, you know, we have actually constantly been another thing that actually one of the hurdles that I forgot to mention, I just remembered is being censored or being kind of pushed from another direction from all these app stores and all of these guys as well.
That's actually affected us a lot, lot more than any other thing.
One of the things that did affect us is, you know, generally games tend to have ads, at least in a minimalist way.
So that's one of the things that we also consider.
Since we're going to have like paid model, we'll also have like a free model, but free is not necessarily free.
But you kind of have to watch like an ad, which is skippable or something like that.
Right.
So we thought of a model like that.
So you're kind of using Unity to to run ads on that.
But then, yeah, so they again, they flagged us for some violation.
They didn't really let us know what the violation is.
Since then, we've not been able to run ads.
So that was one angle of actually making revenue.
Not the main angle, but it was supposed to be at least one source of generating some revenue.
But then we got censored from that.
So we could not run that anymore.
But yes, apart from that, so we essentially see two different ways of that we make revenue in this model.
So one is, of course, from the ZRP game plays.
Although it's a little bit of a trade secret, I would say, of how that exactly works.
But every single time a user actually does play with ZRP, we actually kind of generate revenue on that.
It's related to market and things like that.
But then there's also the NFT sales.
So each character and each power up that we actually have within the gaming system is launched as a cash token NFT.
So again, for the benefits of the low transaction fees and instant transactions,
we actually can rely on a scalable model that BCH offers us for using cash token NFTs to actually have that within the gaming system.
Through sales of those NFTs, we also generate revenue like that.
OK, cool. By the way, that is the perfect timing.
I don't know if you're aware of this, Ramit.
We have this thing. So we have one of the tokens that the Finnish and friends ecosystem uses is Emerald.
Emerald can be used if you spend 100,000 Emerald.
You can earn, listeners can earn Emerald just by being part live.
But by spending 100,000 Emerald, you get a Fiendish shout out.
So a live shout out on air.
And we've got one here from a Fiendish shout out, actually two together.
I'm going to put them together because they kind of fit together.
Cauldron Dex is the best place to get the newest cash tokens.
Go to cauldron.quest and connect to your Zapit wallet today.
So yeah, there you go.
Because Zapit wallet is cash tokens aware and you support also wallet connect, right?
You can go over to cauldron.quest and you can use your Zapit wallet and you can either buy your tokens using your BCH in your Zapit wallet.
Or you can go and trade your tokens you've already got for BCH.
So great, great use there from Dagger, one of the wizards of Cauldron who I believe is also listening right now.
So great, great shout out.
Yeah, so going back to what you said though, Ramit, with you being censored, if I understood correctly, that was Apple, right?
Where you got pulled.
No, actually even Google has a lot of issues from the Android Play Store as well.
So I think recently, I don't know, I mean, they keep changing their policies.
They forced us to do verification, things like that.
They had some deadline, we could not meet that.
So they ended up removing the app from the Play Store.
We had to rush to get that done.
So a lot of our time, at least my time, goes away into that instead of focusing on the actual business stuff.
I guess this could be considered as business stuff, but it's not really required.
You know what I mean?
So a lot of this is not required.
But yes, definitely Apple.
I think Apple is probably the most anti-crypto company out there if you actually look at their policies.
They clearly have it within their App Store policies that you cannot have crypto services.
Essentially, you cannot have any service where payment goes through crypto.
So they force all the apps to use their in-app payment system or in-app purchase system,
which means you essentially cannot run any kind of crypto service within the App Store.
Yeah, exactly.
This is an interesting discussion.
I remember in your Telegram group for Zappa, this discussion came about between myself and Alex.
I'm an Apple user.
So actually, the reason why I bought an iPhone or one of the largest drivers to get an iPhone was to get Twitter Spaces working back in 2022
because it was an absolute shitshow on Android.
So it worked much better on iPhone.
And since then, I have to say the ecosystem, it's been attractive enough for me because it's quite locked down to stay with them.
So I think this is the critical thing.
So how to get this to work on Apple?
Because to be able to, of course, from your business model, it'd be great if people were to move away from Apple
and people would use the platforms that it's easier for you to be able to do your updates for that you can offer your crypto services.
But then you're creating two challenges for yourself.
It's not just creating yourself a business, but it's also convincing people to leave a really big and profitable business so that your business can be successful.
And one of the things that I mentioned there, and I think it's a very interesting thing to look at and consider, and I don't know if you've done that already,
is the fact that because of very anti-competitive laws, I'm not saying that the laws are good, but in this case, it can be very beneficial to your company,
is the European Union have forced Apple to open up their store.
So they basically have to allow third party stores onto the iPhone so that people within the European Union can install apps from other places where Apple don't get their tax.
And that would, you know, I haven't looked into the details of this myself, but as far as I understand,
that should mean that people should be able to sign their own apps. They can offer it via other means. They're not actually going via Apple anymore.
And therefore, you could offer your app as you wanted. So is this something you've investigated? And do you see this as an option moving forward?
I'm not sure if that's already live, because at least from their policy point of view, there is no changes. Their policy still says the same thing.
You cannot even redirect your user to a browser to make a payment as far as their policies are concerned.
Now, I'm not sure, maybe because I think you'll have to be a EU company, EU registered company for that to apply.
Since we are not, I don't think that will even apply to us. But yeah, I mean, you know, we actually had the same amount of services on Apple, you know, as whatever we have it on Android.
So they started off flagging our on-ramp and off-ramp service, which we call Instant Exchange.
So users can actually, you know, buy, sell Bitcoin cash using their UPI or bank account, at least in India.
So they flagged that first saying that, oh, you know, you're offering crypto buying and selling service. Do you have license for it?
Show us the license for every single country that you operate. I was like, okay, that was nuts, because a lot of countries don't even have a license.
Especially India. India doesn't even have like a crypto license that you can offer. When I questioned them on that, they just shrugged it off. They're like, yeah, no, you just have to show us a license.
And, you know, you can't really do anything about it, right? What can you say to them? They control your updates.
They don't really, you know, let your updates go through. Like, even if it's important bug fixes, they don't let it go through until unless you actually comply with whatever it is that they're asking you to.
And then, you know, they had a, they gave us a lot of issues with the P2P exchange as well.
They said, oh, this is also an exchange, even though I literally got on a call with the tech team of Apple, I can't explain them that it's a P2P exchange.
It's literally a listing. It's like a listing service. We don't offer the exchange. It's users directly buying and selling with each other.
But they said, no, the fact that you have the word exchange, you know, it's used as a marketing as exchange. So for that, you'll have to change your entire apps, text, basically.
And, yeah, it's a pain in the ass, basically, to deal with them. It's very frustrating.
And, you know, they would actually reply like one message per day and the back and forth would go on for weeks.
So you could see the Android update has gone to like maybe four or five updates ahead. And then the Apple update is still kind of pending behind.
So, yeah, we had all those issues. I'm not sure if that applies already to what you mentioned to the EU companies, but I could look into it.
But, you know, to be honest, we just found a better solution.
Eventually, they actually even flagged us for our gaming. They said that, oh, yes, you know, the ZRP, the token, the crypto token is used for payments.
You cannot do that. You have to use Apple in-app purchase to do that.
I was like, wait, what? You don't even have any way to actually make it so that we can use the ZRP through in-app purchase.
I literally asked them, show us the documentation where we can use crypto through in-app purchase to run a game. They could not answer me, but still they wouldn't allow it to go through.
And, yeah, I mean, you know, we just gave up. We just thought, you know, the important bug fixes to go through.
So we just decided to remove most of the services.
If you see now, we actually don't have many services on the iOS app, but Android app has a lot more services that's present in it.
Even the game. So you can actually play the game for free on iOS, but not the ZRP.
So the, you know, the easiest solution for us was to just focus on building the web app so that, you know, we can actually bring back all the services within the iOS app so that, you know, you, for example, you click on the P2P exchange in the app and just redirect you to the P2P page of the web app.
That was the easiest solution. Actually, we are launching that today.
We are launching the web app today. So anytime we should be out of the update post as well.
So, yeah, if you guys want to use the web app, you can actually go to app.zappi.io.
On mobile browsers, it looks exactly how it looks like on your Android app or iOS app.
So the user experience is almost seamless.
But for desktop, it's not optimized yet, but it still works.
Yeah, okay. Yeah, web apps definitely seems to be the way to go. So I was just looking it up as well. Like, what is the state of the third party stores for Apple.
So it looks like, yeah, the one that's big is called altstore.io and that allows side loading for everyone.
So I found something on Reddit. It seems like it might be the case that you need to have a business, yeah, available only in the European Union.
So it seems like you have to have a business address within the European Union.
So, so just I mean, it might be just, you know, something to look into because, right.
Unfortunately, the UK is no longer in the European Union, so I doubt it will count, but maybe it would because some of the laws still sort of incorporate Britain.
So you just have to look into that. But setting up a company in the UK costs about £17. It's, you know, it's very simple.
It's mostly a formality. So it might be the case that there's someone within the European Union that this would be relatively inexpensive to set up so that you can actually have this possibility.
And I'm sure that, you know, of course, it won't be as nice for the mainstream.
I guess most people that are just using iPhones right today will only download stuff from the app store.
But this seems to be something that's changing. It's quite a wind here of people getting quite excited in Europe about being able to download apps from other stores and third party stores like, you know, just like what Android has.
Because I'm sure a lot of Apple users, myself included, would be very happy to see the full fat Zapit running on our phones.
So, yeah, I'm definitely looking into that.
Yeah. Yeah, great. So, yeah, I'm a big fan of Zapit wallets.
So for those that are listening, I attended the Blish 2024 conference, the start of this year. So I was a presenter and the tickets were sold using cash tokens, NFTs and Zapit right then.
I'm not sure was Zapit. I know it's certainly one of the first, one of the earliest adopters. Were you the same time as Paytaka? Were you ahead of Paytaka with your cash token support?
I'm not. I think it was almost the same time. Although I think Paytaka did have it before the launch, before the upgrade, right?
Like the test version of it, if I can remember it right. But right after the upgrade, we launched the full support as well.
Yeah, okay. So maybe it wasn't the first, but it was certainly one of the first, probably the second at the very, at the very least.
It was certainly the first cash tokens aware wallet that I used. And I tried, I tested out the difference between Paytaka and Zapit at that point.
And I was, I was really happy and convinced that the Zapit had that the best overall UI and UX at that point and actually used that.
So I pulled out the Zapit wallet to get into the conference by showing off my Jessica NFT. So it's a fantastic wallet.
Of course, I'm using Apple, so I don't get the full cream that Android users are getting.
So I really hope that you guys find a way around that at some point. Just before going like off into the gaming side, which is really interesting.
I think there's a lot to discuss there. So when Zapit started off, it was a BCH only wallet.
And I'd just like to just hear like, what was it about BCH that made you so excited to start building this wallet and be at first an exclusive wallet just for BCH?
Kuldeep, do you want to take this up? I guess I've been speaking for a while.
Yeah, sure. So BCH basically has all the properties that it needs, that anybody needs to be a, not just appear to be a cash, but also provide a lot of, you know,
services on top of it. For example, if the way you guys were discussing about, you know, how Apple is stopping all services, but they are available on the Android side.
Not just that, like we got to know that the chip process can actually act as a good propeller for a structured upgrade, like a yearly upgrade.
And the fundamental UTXO model of BCH makes it incredibly scalable. And on top of that, since we already have so many upgrades on the native level,
we have the ability to build any kind of application and still be, still pay very minimal fees on top of it, which makes it almost ideal for, you know,
anybody to make a completely sensitive, sensitive free decentralized application. So, I mean, all these features, they just make it ideal to, you know,
build something on top of it, at least if not anything, just facilitate others to build something on top of it. So we, me, I'm personally, I really like BCH for everything that it provides.
There is no other crypto that comes even close to it. So that's motivation enough to continue, you know, building on top of it.
Yes. Thanks. That was a great answer.
Yeah, so, you know, I've been in the Bitcoin space, I would say, since 2013. And at that time, people got in for a different reason.
It was not the number go up and things like that. It was the freedom money and decentralization and things like that.
So since being in the space for a pretty long time, I kind of saw what happened to the BTC space. And I clearly saw that BCH kind of continued the original vision, I would say, of the peer to peer cash.
So, yeah, when we actually wanted to build a payments application, as I said, in the beginning, it was supposed to be just for regular payments, right?
BTC was unusable at that time. Like, I clearly remember paying over, I don't know, $50, $60 in fees, and then I had to wait almost a week for my transaction to get, you know, to get confirmed, like to even get one confirmation.
This is back in 2017, I think. Yeah, so that specific event, I remember the specific event when I decided to complete stock using BTC.
I was like, no, this is not what I signed up for. So, yeah, so I think two, three years later when I wanted to build the platform by then, BCH had become attractive enough in terms of what it was.
And yeah, we decided to build it on top of that for that reason.
You know, at that time, when Romit and me, Jeff, we're just, you know, getting in touch with each other. At that time, Romit was already working on Zapid Wallet, but I was working in a big exchange in India.
And then, like, I was not really that much interested in directly working on BCH. But when I started helping out Romit, eventually I figured out that, you know, this is worth more of my time.
I can build something on top of it and actually be usable in, you know, real life.
Yeah, definitely. There's some great reasons there. I mean, the decentralized nature of BCH, as you mentioned there, with the issues you've been having with not just Apple, right?
You've had different issues with different Play stores, with different app stores, also the Google Play store.
And you've experienced firsthand what that means to you. And I think a lot of people need to experience that. They need to experience what happens when those centralized entities block you.
They block you by stopping you from releasing the app updates that you want and the services that you want from directly reaching your customers.
Or in the case of finance, which happens, you know, people losing access to their funds, not being able to withdraw their money and so forth.
And this is where a decentralized permissionless chain such as Bitcoin Cash is really strong, it's really important.
And as you say, the UTX model, and especially with the chip upgrade process of making sure that Bitcoin Cash is developing, we've got the scalability that's going on.
3D UTX is highly scalable. And also with the block size, first of all, just being larger, being able to handle that transaction. And now with Abler, of course, it's really a future-proof chain to be able to work for, which is critical.
Right. We've actually got, in the new year, we've got Code Valley will be joining us. And they actually they were building all of their product on Bitcoin. And, you know, the fact that the block size wasn't increased, it actually shelved their entire product idea.
They had to just, you know, scrap it at first. And then all of a sudden the fork happened and BCH was there. And that saved their project because they needed that sort of really high volume payment rails that BCH offers that BTC just no longer offered anymore.
So that scalability is really important because even though maybe today, of course, the adoption, I'm sure, you know, is taking longer than what many of us would hope for or would like.
But when all of a sudden there's that switch, and, you know, I believe very much that it will happen, we'll see usage exponentially grow. And if the chain is not able to grow with that, then all of a sudden the businesses that you're building are on a very shaky foundation.
So, yeah, great answers there. And I love them.
But, you know, along the way, so you focused on BCH at the start. And along the way, this has changed and now Zapit supports several chains. And I'd just like to also know, just, you know, get some understanding there. What was the driving force of changing that from BCH only to multi coin and sort of what was the result of that change?
Sure. So I guess, you know, we were actually, as I said, like for almost three years, we were exclusively on BCH. And we kind of saw a plateau in terms of growth in terms of number of users and number of transactions we were making and stuff, right.
So we had to make something more scalable.
There was essentially like, you know, we thought a lot of, a lot of ideas came up of how to do that. But one thing that kept focusing, we kept focusing on is going a multi chain.
Not to actually, you know, what do you say, service those coins as much, but to actually bring in the communities of those chains into BCH, right. So we saw that, you know, not, I think nobody in the BCH space was actually doing that.
Nobody was building like a multi chain product, but who focuses mainly on BCH.
So there are a lot of, you know, N number of multi chain apps out there, but then they don't really focus on BCH at all.
You can see that because a lot of wallets still have the old Bitcoin Cash address format. They're not even updated to the point where they've added new address formats and especially you see that with exchanges and things like that.
So how else would you showcase everything that Bitcoin Cash can do, for example, at that time, you know, we had SLP tokens and stuff, right.
So we saw that people actually came in because there was a token system. We saw that, okay, when you try to maybe replicate some things that other chains are doing in terms of features, more people seem to be interested in things like that.
So our idea was that, okay, we will open up to other communities so that, yes, they can bring in their coins, but then as they use the app, they'll actually see the benefits of Bitcoin Cash as well.
Some things that you can actually see, for example, if you go to the P2P exchange, we do support multiple chains within the P2P exchange, but there's kind of a clear distinction.
We show what the fees is like and what the time it takes to actually go through the escrow and things like that.
For example, for BTC, we show that, hey, the fees is high, it could take 10 minutes, 20 minutes, 30 minutes to actually, you know, confirm the escrow transaction. Sorry, on Ethereum, I mean.
But for BCH, it's instant and it's zero confirmations. We don't even have to wait for any confirmation.
So let's say a user who's maybe using Ethereum in their day-to-day life, they don't necessarily interact with BCH that much, who probably wants to buy some or sell some using a P2P exchange, not like a centralized exchange.
They have this as an option. They have Zapit as an option.
And when they actually go to use that through visual cues and UI hints, it is suggestive that BCH is actually a more attractive option to actually use for the P2P exchange.
So that was the idea that we went behind. And yeah, we definitely saw a large number of users coming in just because we opened it up.
So we thought, OK, now it kind of works. And it worked really well even within the gaming system.
I think we all know that the meme coins and all the tokens and stuff that people kind of interact with is mostly on Ethereum, Polygon, or Solana and things like that.
But again, not many people come into the BCH space because they're not that aware. They're not aware that cash tokens exist like that.
If they want to buy NFT, if they're talking about NFT, they're most likely talking about Solana NFT or Ethereum NFT.
But within our gaming ecosystem, you can actually purchase a cash token NFT.
So if you're looking for NFT, you can purchase NFT using your Ethereum or using your USDT, using your Polygon, Avalanche, anything like that.
So if you're already in that chain, what's the easiest way to actually onboard them onto cash token?
Well, this is what we saw as the easiest way for them to actually move the capital or the funds from one chain to the other.
So that was the idea behind going multi-chain.
And yes, it's kind of worked out better, I would say, if we were only on BCH.
We're definitely getting a lot more users because of that.
We are still, you know, it's not been even a year, I guess, since we went multi-chain.
So we haven't probably done like proper tests to see how many people actually shifted from one chain to BCH.
I think we need enough time to actually test that.
But we have definitely seen a lot more increase, maybe when it helped with gaming for that reason.
I think it started from a smart BCH.
Like after SLP was not able to fulfill what it was supposed to do, especially because of FlexiSD, then we started to provide support for smart BCH.
That was the moment where our wallet started to integrate, like, you know, have an EVM compatibility as well.
And then later on, when, you know, Gwant Flex, we asked what happened after that, we wanted to make this project a bit bigger because it also works in real world.
Like BCH right now, it's only like 10 billion dollar market cap.
But the entire crypto industry is three trillion plus.
And the easiest people for us to onboard is those guys who are already aware of crypto.
Onboarding somebody who doesn't know about crypto, well, of course, that is also the part of the target.
But the easier target and the much and people who are basically, you know, they'll come faster is people from other ecosystems.
And just like Rumeet said, we have provided so many other options for people to choose from.
So by default, ZRP token is in cash tokens.
But you're also you have the facility that you can pay in any of the crypto and then you'll get ZRP and then you can play the games.
And similarly with peer to peer exchange, by default, we started with, you know, like open source P2P contract.
And then we also launched the peer to peer exchange for other changes, especially EVM chains.
So and they are also audited, by the way.
So this gives a bigger market for us.
We have the potential to invite more people into our system.
And ultimately, they might also be able to see that BCH has a lot to provide for us.
Yeah, it also comes from, you know, running meetups, me and Vikram, who's, you know, who runs Instacrypt.
Who is actually our on ramp and off ramp partner within within the ZAPT app.
So we run one of the biggest meetup groups in India.
It has over 10,000 members. Right.
So we used to regularly run it. Now it's a little less because I guess the turnout has started to lower down.
But one of the main things that we would promote is BCH.
People from all the chains would come, like they would come with their Bitcoin, they would come with their Ethereum, Solana, whatever it is.
And we would actually have conversation.
We would try and convince them that BCH is a better option.
Some of them would come in just for trading or exchange.
It's hard to convince them, but a lot of developers would come or who's actually in it for the ideology or even the tech.
We would kind of showcase what BCH can do.
And there was actually no project within the BCH headspace that made it easy to actually swap from one chain to the other.
Right. Like no wallets within the BCH space.
So let's say you're talking to someone who has Bitcoin already.
You convince them that Bitcoin was hijacked. Right.
And BCH is the original project.
Like within a wallet where they're holding something, it's very hard to actually swap unless it's like a multi-chain wallet.
I'm talking about within the BCH space. It doesn't exist.
You have to go to an exchange or a swap platform.
You have to find another wallet.
So you see that there's actually it acts as a barrier.
So how do you reduce that barrier?
Well, by introducing that thing within your platform as well.
Like if you hold BTC on, let's say we have BTC already, they can send it to Zapit. Right.
If they want to swap it to BCH, we already have a coin swap service that's built within the app.
You can swap your any chain to BCH.
So that's another option we saw as well.
And that's also working out well.
We actually do see a lot of swaps happening.
We actually see more swaps happening to BCH from a lot of other coins than from BCH to other coins.
And to be honest, I see a lot of logic in this.
If you think about it from a country analogy, so really high liberty, free countries will allow people to come in,
allow people to go travel there and they will allow their own citizens to leave to any country.
They don't care. Right. That's a high liberty country because they're so confident about what their country offers,
that they want to make it as accessible for other people and also for their own citizens.
They don't care where they go. Right.
Whereas if you have a very low liberty, a country that no one would actually want to live to,
they have the complete opposite. So if you think of the USSR or North Korea or, you know,
and they would stop their own people coming out, be able to leave.
And I see it very much as the same thing.
So if Bitcoin Cash really has all these properties that the community likes to believe, right,
that it's this is the best money out there that is available today, is the best tech, it's scalable,
it's permissionless, it has all these features and it's had a really fair distribution and so on.
If it really is that good, then the more ways to get into Bitcoin Cash,
the more roads there are from whatever app you're using, whatever wallet you're using,
whatever UK or BTC you can easily transfer into BCH, then it would be kind of logical and reasonable
to assume that that would actually help BCH.
So I think the logic is really sound here.
And I think that making it easier for people from other communities,
whether it's Solana or Ethereum or even BTC to be able to get into BCH,
I think this is a good strategy.
And I really like to see, you know, you said you haven't actually looked at the data there or,
you know, to see, you know, has it had much impact?
But it would be interesting to look at that data and to see.
One thing I definitely think is, you know, in the community, there is very often,
I see this the question mark coming out, this, you know, this company or this product is no longer monokine.
It's not just for supporting BCH, it's supporting others.
And some people find that good.
There's many others that find that, I don't know, I guess distasteful.
But one thing I think is really critical and I think this is the most important thing for all the builders out there of products is being profitable is critical.
So, you know, you guys mentioned that you were flatlining with your BCH user growth.
And as CEO, as entrepreneurs, of course, you have to do everything that you can to grow your business,
to make sure that it stays profitable, because this is something in the end that benefits everyone, right?
And the much worse outcome would be that Zapit doesn't exist anymore and you guys move on to other things.
So I think that's, you know, it's really good to see you promoting BCH and supporting BCH.
And of course, I'd love it.
I'm sure many here listening would love it if you could be earning all the money and see all the growth that you required by just being in BCH.
But as you say, the market cap of BCH relative, you know, you said the market cap is 10 billion today.
The crypto market cap is three trillion, did you say?
And that changes quite a lot.
But it's very, very small as a percentage.
So, of course, there's a lot of money to go out there, money to catch out there.
So I think it's really cool.
But yeah, just thinking about like BCH today.
So you said it flatlined.
You've opened this up a year ago to multi coins.
You've seen a growth here and a lot of that growth is in the gaming, especially over the last few months.
And, you know, just thinking about like has the BCH growth stayed flatlined now over that time period?
Has it also grown over the last year?
Kuldeep, you want to take that?
Yeah, yes, yes.
Yeah, I've seen like a lot of growth in adoption of our wallet, especially because of the games.
I see because most of the transactions in the game, especially with the ZRP and, you know, if you can purchase the NFTs and also if you have to use some multiplier in the games, you get to burn the NFT.
So in order to use a multiplier in the game, you're burning that NFT and that goes as a non-chain transaction.
So the number of transactions has definitely increased.
The number of P2P orders has also increased, although I wouldn't say that the size of the order has gone up, but the small orders has definitely gone up.
So the wallet is being used by a lot more BCH people than they were before.
Okay, and looking into the future.
So we've got next year two upgrades. We've got the Big Int and Velma.
Yeah.
Are these things that you think, do they help you in your business? Will they impact what you're able to offer?
Well, to be honest, this opens up a lot of potential for what we can build on top of it.
For example, we have been working on a prototype for about a month, one and a half, to figure out a way to introduce a replica of DNS, just like ENS.
There will be a lot of things that will become much, much more easier with the upcoming upgrade for sure.
Okay, and what from your perspective, so from Zappitz, from Cordeep's, from Romet's perspective, what are the things that excite you most about, like what the BCH ecosystem could have or will have that's going to encourage more usage and see the explosion in adoption?
Which might even lead into the games question, right?
I think BCH already has, I mean, technically speaking, I think most of it is already there.
I think we do suffer from lack of usage.
Like, for example, we have built a really robust P2P smart contract, but then we don't see enough usage of it.
Just like that, I think there are a lot of smart contracts out there, although it is definitely gaining traction. But if you were to do comparisons, like side-by-side comparison with a few other chains, I think although BCH is gradually and steadily growing, I think it still kind of suffers compared to other chains.
Maybe because they have a larger marketing budget, they're all centrally funded through a foundation and things like that. Maybe those things do help them for sure.
But yeah, being in a decentralized space, it's a little bit harder to achieve that.
So I guess, yeah, maybe from the marketing and funding of projects point of view, I think there are a lot more people involved in funding new projects that could come up in terms of developers or businesses that are coming up.
That also kind of attracts. One of the reasons why a lot of projects get built on those platforms is because of the amount of grants that they're able to provide.
I think, yeah, things like that are quite attractive. Like if there are enough developers and businesses building on top, there are also enough users because then those businesses will then market it to other users.
That's how you end up getting users as well. It's very hard to just focus on users without having enough businesses. I think we just need to focus a little bit more.
I mean, when I say BCH needs to focus, I mean, the community needs to focus on trying to develop that need and trying to get more people interested within the space.
Yes, that's where I see there can be a massive growth.
Yeah, I mean, I would see from a from from blockchain perspective, BCH doesn't really have like a scaling issue.
But I would love to have a scaling issue at Zapit with the growth.
That's what I would say. Like when I will be tearing my head apart as to why things are feeling and I need to scale things up in our servers.
I would love to see that. I'd love to see, you know, live that life.
Yeah, definitely. I think we all would love to live that life. It's like when people are whinging about, you know, what happens if we get this amount of transactions? What then?
It's like this is a luxury problem to have, right? We want to see so many people using it.
They were like, shit, OK, what now? And then we start thinking even, you know, going deeper into the toolbox. How do we solve this?
Yeah, definitely. But I really like the the angle, Robert, that you have that, you know, so there's no marketing in BCH or very little relative to centralized products is obvious because centralized products, you know, they advertise their product.
They're the biggest holders, they're the bag holders, and they can get huge returns on that. That makes sense.
But BCH isn't it had, you know, the fairest delivery of the distribution of the coins of all the coins out there, you know, like BTC. And so it's actually the products and services that are responsible for marketing.
So so it's actually, you know, if you want to see more users, more marketing for BCH, then you need to have more products and those businesses actually marketing.
And then because and then they're doing that to generate revenue because that is not not a really a better better motivator, I think, you know, and more trustworthy motivator that people getting rich, right?
That are making a profit. That's right. And I guess even in terms of, you know, businesses and products that we kind of put out there, if you actually see, you know, the majority of the products that use BCH, right?
Yeah, so one of the reasons why we did focus on gaming is because we kind of did some introspection as to okay, what do we actually offer in terms of services?
What are the requirements from user point of view? And one thing that we definitely saw was where it's on ramp off ramp, whether it's coins or whether it's P2P exchange, most of these things require people to actually have at least a significant amount of money.
You know, they need to have that in their wallet in order to use the service, right? So we thought, okay, what service can we actually think of where users don't necessarily need to come with money and gaming kind of gave way for that?
How do we introduce more people into, you know, BCH without needing them to come with BCH? But then, you know, they can learn about BCH, maybe get it later on or at least get it in a different way or at least get introduced to it.
Gaming seemed like an actual path because you can play games essentially for free. But then you're interacting with the blockchain, you see the benefits that, you know, if you play with the token, you're getting a higher score multiplier, you see that you're actually getting some valuable token.
If you're able to score higher points, I think that's a lot more attractive. Now you're incentivized to actually get some, you know, CRP and BCH to be able to interact with the game.
So, yeah, we kind of maybe reduce the barrier to entering into the BCH space by introducing the gaming ecosystem.
Yeah, cool. I think I myself, I'm sure many users here would like to know more about that. So if the gaming that you're offering on Zap is, this is something that's relatively new.
So, yeah, explain that. Like for someone that's coming onto your platform, what games or games you offer and how are you attracting those new users? Where are you dipping into to get access to them?
Because you said it's not just BCH, it's other pools. And what marketing efforts are you doing to get into them? And how does that look like? What, you know, how do they discover you? What games can they play? And then how do they earn when playing?
Sure. So, you know, this is a concept, I think relatively new in the entire gaming ecosystem, which is the play to earn gaming.
We are all aware that, you know, we kind of play games, we own these virtual coins within the game. They're kind of used within the game, but nowhere else really. So they're essentially useless or anything else other than just within the game.
And yeah, I think introducing crypto tokens as those virtual coins kind of makes sense because you can actually bring those tokens out of the game and then use it for a lot more things.
So, yeah, what we are introducing is weekly tournaments within the gaming ecosystem. So users can actually play game and score as much as they can within a week.
And at the end of the week, whoever has the highest scores, I think we reward like for the top 25% of the players, they get from a pool of 100,000 ZRP tokens.
So that was the essentially the idea behind it. And the game that we introduced was a copy of Flappy Bird, if anybody has played that. We call it Zappy Bird.
It was basically to test the waters as to, okay, will gaming within space work or not? It was a huge plan that we took. And since it worked out really well, we decided to go all in into it.
And yeah, so it's just a simple game where, you know, you have a, when we launched it, it was just one bird. It's like a free bird you get.
And you can actually go through some obstacles and for every obstacle that you're passing through, you're getting like a point and your points tend to add up. Every time you play, your points add up.
And every, you know, at the end of the week, as I said, whoever has the highest points get the reward from the token pool.
Later on what we... special abilities, right? So there are different kind of characters and each of these characters are all NFTs.
So if you want to be able to use the other characters, which has enhanced abilities, which will actually allow you to, you know, score points even more easily, then you will have to purchase the NFT.
So again, you know, if you actually play any game, you can buy skins and characters and things like that within the gaming ecosystem, right?
So since that already exists, crypto space in the BCH space, and you can actually buy those characters instead of using like a traditional, you know, Fiat payment system, you're just able to buy it with BCH and a few other currencies as well.
So that was the base idea behind that.
We are working on our second game already.
You know, we will punch about that here because it's still in its early stage.
But since it's working out really well, we want to focus at the moment on smaller, easy to play like arcade kind of games.
If it starts working out really well, we'll probably look into making bigger games in the future.
If Kulip wants to add something to that. Wish you lots of luck with that. I want to see picking games.
I just saw the numbers over half a million games.
Kulip, do you want to add anything to that?
I'm not sure if I can't watch anything there.
Hello, can you guys hear me?
Yeah, we can hear you.
Yeah, I guess it's a Romitz internet.
So I saw the numbers right now.
Over half a million games have been played so far.
I'm zapping.
Ramu, we can hear you.
I think you can't hear Kulip.
So Kulip speaking.
Oh, okay. Yeah, no, I cannot hear it.
Yeah. So what I would advise is, leave the space and join back in.
I'll put you back as co-host and then we'll let Kulip talk a bit now.
Okay, sure.
So Kulip, you're on.
I don't have much to add, to be honest. I just had that stat.
Yeah, okay.
But maybe then it would be good to update your website at the moment.
It's showing 100,000 plus games played, which of course is correct.
But I think it would look even more correct if it was 500,000 plus.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
So we'll get it updated.
I'll just rum it back on the stage.
But I think this is really interesting.
So, okay, so the guys going on here, they can play Nappy Bird for free.
They get the ZRP tokens.
They earn that by playing, which they can use for multipliers.
And then you also said there's an NFT that people can use, if I understood that correctly, to unlock the special birds.
And is the NFT, that's also a cash tokens NFT?
Is that something that can be bought within the wallet then?
Yes, that's right.
Okay. Yeah, cool.
This is all the stuff that I'm missing out on using the Apple version, unfortunately.
Yeah.
The reduced fat version.
Yeah, you can buy using any of the cryptocurrencies that are available in the wallet.
So you can even buy with Ethereum, Tone, Polygon, BCH.
You can also buy with ZRP itself.
So if you have been playing game for quite some time, you can just use that ZRP that you earned.
So that's basically, you're getting it for free.
Also ZRP has a 25% discount.
So if you want to get that, I mean.
Okay, so can you hear now, Kordi?
Yes, yes, I can hear you.
Okay, fantastic.
So just thinking about like with Zapit, so when someone's coming on, they're playing your game, they're earning for free.
So if I understood correctly, the revenue that you're making them right now from that particular strategy, that's from adverts.
Is that correct?
No, I said that we got censored from ads.
So we don't have any revenue coming from ads anymore.
So the revenue that we make is from NFT sales and ZRP based games.
So you can actually play for free and you get like a 1x score multiplier, which means you score 10 points.
You know, your score shows up as 10 or you can actually play with ZRP.
And then you get a 3x score multiplier, which means whatever score that you get, it gets multiplied by 3.
So every time a user plays with that, we kind of generate some revenue from that.
Yeah, I don't really, I'm not following that.
So when the user gets the tokens, but how is your revenue generated?
I'm not sure.
We decided that that's our trade secret.
But just know that we make revenue from that.
Fine, all right. Sorry, probing too deep.
I get the hint. So as long as you're making money, it's all good.
So for anyone out there, if you want to play some Zappy Bird and ZRP and support some BCH wallet developers,
then go and download Zapit from zapit.io.
Available on Android, available on Apple.
But if you have access to either one, it sounds like Android is the best way to go right now for the Zappy wallet, right?
No, we actually did launch our web app.
That's what I was trying to say.
Anybody who has iOS, you can actually go to app.zapit.io and access the entire app on your browser with all the services.
Wow. Okay.
Now that is great.
It's something that we launched today.
Look at that. I guess you tied in for Finnish and French.
Just for us.
We actually did make it live yesterday, but we did not launch it until today because we were anyway doing this.
Exclusive treatment. Thank you.
Great. That's working.
So app.zapit.io.
So it's the same thing. It replicates the same design, the same functionalities.
Although I think that we have turned off the gaming for now because we are having a little bit of UI issues because it's built on a single code base,
so it's a little hard to manage multiple platforms with a single code base.
That's one advantage that we have as a team as well.
The technology that we are using is kind of deployable on almost all platforms.
It's available on Android, iOS. It's already available as an extension.
Now it's available as a web app.
I think in a week or two's time it should be available as a Mac, Windows, Linux app as well.
That's really good.
We covered everything there.
I'm really looking forward to it.
So when you can get the gaming on the web app too, then let me know because I want to earn some zapit tokens by playing zappy bird.
Definitely.
So I understand. So there's some trade secrets there, but exactly the revenue generated.
But it seems very much that the cash tokens upgrade in 23 is really critical actually now to the business model that you've got.
Is that fair?
Well, our token system was critical for us from the time of SLP.
Everything that we built kind of relied on tokens because even then the token itself, the ZRP,
it was supposed to be like a discount token or like a coupon code kind of a token.
It can be used to get like discounts and things like that when you actually pay with BCH.
So since we were focusing on payments, you could actually walk into any store.
It was supposed to be tied to the UPI payments as well.
When you actually purchase any product with BCH, you could kind of attach your ZRP as well that you earn.
And then you would get discount for it.
If you're trying to pay some for like coffee of $10, let's say, and then you have $1 worth of ZRP that you have earned,
you can actually attach that and you'd only be paying like $9 for the coffee.
And the $1 is basically just earned.
And then since that will be tied to like a DEX like Holdron, it would be market-driven discounts.
It wouldn't be a company-driven discount.
It wouldn't come from our marketing budget anymore.
The discounts will be driven directly by the market, essentially making it like the first decentralized discount system.
Since the payment part doesn't work anymore,
it was a little hard to complete that entire loop, although it's still in our pipeline.
We want to try and finish that up soon as well.
Yeah, OK, cool. I'm just putting out a link now.
So ZapIt Web Wallet launched today.
So that's in the comments for everyone that's listening.
You can go and check that out for all you iOS users.
You get to experience closer to the full fat version.
So tokens, it's really good that we can see.
Token SLP, of course, was available on Bitcoin Cash before Cash Tokens,
but we sort of had massive issues with scalability and with CoinFlex, with the CoinFlex USD coin,
that actually really broke that system.
And so Cash Tokens was sort of born from the ashes of that,
something that was actually really, you know, it wasn't just an accidental consequence of something.
It was a really well thought out token system where we can also utilize the smart contracts
to really expand the capabilities of BCH.
It's great to see that that's being utilized by your business
and that you're able to leverage that to generate revenue activities in your mysterious and mercurial ways.
So hopefully one day you'll be so big and then you'll have so many different revenue streams,
you'll be able to share that and help other people.
And we hope that day comes soon.
I've got the third and final fiendish shout out today.
So love P2P Cash and building.
BCH Bliss 2025 is for you.
100,000 emerald well spent there, Jay-Z. Thank you.
So Ramit, I know if I remember correctly, you wanted to attend BCH Bliss earlier this year,
but we weren't able to make it.
So what do you think? Is there any chance we'll be seeing Zapit represented for BCH Bliss 2025?
I'll try my best.
But, you know, the main issue is the visa requirements and stuff.
Yeah, the Schengen visa requirements are pretty strict.
And a person who's essentially living off of BCH is very hard to apply for a visa for a country.
So listen, I guess I mean, this is the case.
So if anyone's there who's listening, who has a business that can basically that can help Ramit
or anyone from Zapit to be able to come over to BCH Bliss, maybe reach out to Ramit.
Or if you know anyone that may be able to help do this, because, you know, I've experienced this.
Getting people from India into the European Union is very challenging.
Switzerland, as far as I understand, is the easiest route.
They really have the least public, but you still need a sponsor.
So someone basically is normally a business is inviting someone over.
But if anyone can help Ramit, because it would be great.
You know, I think the more that the communities, you know, East and West and wherever,
they come together for these sort of occasions, especially when it's so many builders and developers,
the better it is for BCH, better is for the entrepreneurs, the more good things that come out of that.
And more revenue generating activities.
So I'd love to see you there. I'd love to see you both there.
You know, it's been a while now. The last time we saw each other in person was at a conference back in way back in 2022.
So, yeah, it's about time that we get to see each other.
So, yeah, if anyone can help, please reach out to Ramit and yeah, Ramit, I hope and Kordi.
But we really hope to, you know, to be good to see you there.
But I can appreciate if you can't make it happen.
I guess the European Union aren't really looking at your BCH and thinking, oh, yes, that's great.
That's what we want to see when looking at the amount of money in your account.
Yeah, you have to show your taxes that you've filed, how much fun you have, what you're earning, all of those things.
And yeah, they only accept, I guess, official documents that governments accept as well with the tax return.
So, yeah, it's a little hard because of that. I realized that once I started running BCH.
Okay, we have a lot more problems of just using BCHs apart from the regular stuff that we probably have to solve.
But, you know, these things are like secondary. I think we have to focus on the primary stuff first.
Maybe later on we can solve that as well.
I will solve that as soon as Bitcoin Cash is being used worldwide by every business, right?
So, you know, in just a couple more years and you'll be able to move around wherever you want.
Perfect.
Hey, do you guys have a closing statement you'd like to leave for the audience?
Oh, not really. I guess that's about it.
I think that's about it. I guess, you know, I don't really want to tell anything else about BCH because I think everyone here already knows all the benefits and stuff.
But, yeah, check out Zapit. That's the website. You can follow us on Zapit on Twitter as well.
And yeah, please give us suggestions, feedbacks. Any kind of conversation is welcome.
Yeah, we would love to see you all, you know, be more active in our telegram channel as well.
It gives us a lot of feedback and a lot of opportunity to improve the product.
Yeah, OK, great. So, guys, if everyone that's listening, if you haven't already, go and check out Zapit wallet for your BCH needs.
It also supports cash tokens. And go on to Telegram, go into the Zapit group and give them your feedback.
And if you're already using Zapit and, you know, let's face it, no wallet is perfect. None of them. Not even in BCH, which I think has the best wallets of any of the crypto ecosystem.
Give feedback. How could the UX be better? How could the UI be better? What's working? If there's any bugs, just reach out and give those guys that feedback.
Let people know, let them know and the team know that you're using that wallet.
Of course, you know, we all know the more feedback, the better. I can't implement everything, but we can only sort of make rational and good decisions with that feedback.
So thank you so much for joining. I see we're over time, but we started a bit later, so hopefully that's OK for everyone.
But the hour is definitely coming to the close for Finnish and friends. So thank you so much, Robert and Kuldeep for coming and joining today.
And, you know, for everyone that's listening, please be awesome. Go and follow them this instant if you aren't already on Twitter.
The handles are radicalrommit and cypherpunk underscore BCH. That's for Rommit and Kuldeep respectively.
And yeah, for both of you, if you drop your cash token address as a comment or DM, a Finnish token will be sent to each of you as a small token of our gratitude for taking the time to be on the show today.
I'm not sure if you're aware of the Finnish token. So the Finnish token is a new coin on the cash tokens ecosystem, but it's actually has some utility there.
So you can use one Finnish token for a minute of Finnish utility, Finnish services, consultation and expertise.
So, yeah, for all you listeners, if you enjoyed the show and want to show your appreciation, please feel free to drop some BCH or Finnish token into our wallet. The cash tokens address is in the description of our Twitter profile.
There's also a QR code in the comments and we'll be taking a break now as we come into the Christmas holidays.
So we're going to be drinking some mulled wine and eating some mince pies from now on actually until the second. So I'm coming back into the new year a little bit fatter and probably happier.
And I'm actually kicking off the year to get some excitement for next year. The very first episode when we come back will be with the entire team of General Protocols, which is currently by Total Value Locked Bitcoin Cache's number one product builder.
And that's pretty exciting. Just make sure to put a Finnish token into the jukebox and hit play to convert tokenized Finnish time into an entire 60 minutes or maybe even more of the greatest Bitcoin cash news and updates with the most important players.
I see Cheepy here. Yeah, okay. The second best at the very, at the very worst. One of the best. How about that? Do we agree with that one?
Okay, so if you need Finnish token, check out Holdren Swap. Links are in the comments. This was Finnish from Friends and Regardless of Your Religion Creed or Calendar. We wish you all a very Merry Christmas, a Happy New Year and a wonderful start to 2025.
See all you wonderful P2P cash monsters there. Good morning, good afternoon, good night.