WEBVTT 00:00:04.110 --> 00:00:06.349 Hey, everybody. Rich here at Leaving MAGA at 00:00:06.349 --> 00:00:09.609 leavingmaga .org. As always, we thank you for 00:00:09.609 --> 00:00:12.470 all of your support. And we really appreciate 00:00:12.470 --> 00:00:15.150 all the engagement that you've shown us with 00:00:15.150 --> 00:00:18.370 our leader conversations where we speak with 00:00:18.370 --> 00:00:20.809 others who, like myself, were deep in MAGA and 00:00:20.809 --> 00:00:25.089 left. We are joined today by her nickname is 00:00:25.089 --> 00:00:28.949 the congenial Okie, Bailey Tyler from the great 00:00:28.949 --> 00:00:31.649 state of Oklahoma. Bailey, it is good to see 00:00:31.649 --> 00:00:34.259 you again. I really appreciate you being here. 00:00:34.880 --> 00:00:39.140 Yeah, thanks for having me. So let's get right 00:00:39.140 --> 00:00:42.380 into this here and talk about, if you'll take 00:00:42.380 --> 00:00:46.679 us through, what some of the attraction was for 00:00:46.679 --> 00:00:50.759 you to MAGA and why you originally found yourself 00:00:50.759 --> 00:00:55.039 being enticed by joining the MAGA community. 00:00:55.600 --> 00:01:00.399 So in 2016, when Donald Trump was running for 00:01:00.399 --> 00:01:04.040 the presidency, It was really, for me, the thing 00:01:04.040 --> 00:01:08.359 that enticed me was not only the community support 00:01:08.359 --> 00:01:12.099 or community, like everybody in my community 00:01:12.099 --> 00:01:16.219 was MAGA, right? And so all I was hearing was 00:01:16.219 --> 00:01:19.959 about how he's going to fix the economy. And 00:01:19.959 --> 00:01:22.319 it's been so long at this point, like that's 00:01:22.319 --> 00:01:24.680 really the only thing I can remember other than, 00:01:24.859 --> 00:01:28.760 because I was a very like deeply conservative 00:01:28.760 --> 00:01:33.290 Christian. I was anti -abortion and Donald Trump 00:01:33.290 --> 00:01:36.310 has changed his stance 20 times. But at that 00:01:36.310 --> 00:01:39.549 time, he was anti -abortion. So I was all for 00:01:39.549 --> 00:01:41.969 that. Right. But other than that, he was just 00:01:41.969 --> 00:01:46.049 going to make America great again. And to a simple 00:01:46.049 --> 00:01:48.689 minded person, and I was very simple minded, 00:01:48.930 --> 00:01:52.950 you don't have to think much deeper than that. 00:01:53.010 --> 00:01:56.069 Like just surface level, making America great 00:01:56.069 --> 00:02:02.400 was enticing, especially when. You hold racist 00:02:02.400 --> 00:02:05.439 beliefs and someone who is racist isn't going 00:02:05.439 --> 00:02:08.780 to admit that they're racist. So I'm trying to 00:02:08.780 --> 00:02:12.639 get ahead of the thoughts and questions people 00:02:12.639 --> 00:02:15.840 are going to have in the audience. Because I've 00:02:15.840 --> 00:02:17.900 been asked these questions a lot of times. So 00:02:17.900 --> 00:02:20.740 I'm trying to make sure I'm explaining myself 00:02:20.740 --> 00:02:23.680 clearly and covering the bases, but without going 00:02:23.680 --> 00:02:28.069 on a tangent. But what enticed me? was very surface 00:02:28.069 --> 00:02:33.310 level. Um, and there, there wasn't much thought 00:02:33.310 --> 00:02:36.770 to it. It was just, Hey, we're going to make 00:02:36.770 --> 00:02:40.069 America great. And, and then you're just, you're 00:02:40.069 --> 00:02:45.569 sold. Right. So were you a particularly political 00:02:45.569 --> 00:02:49.449 person? in 2015 because i'm curious about that 00:02:49.449 --> 00:02:52.169 also in terms of how apolitical you may have 00:02:52.169 --> 00:02:57.590 been no a comment i get asked a lot is how did 00:02:57.590 --> 00:03:00.830 you not know like everyone knows who donald trump 00:03:00.830 --> 00:03:06.599 is and 20 19 year old 20 year old me I had never 00:03:06.599 --> 00:03:08.520 even heard of The Apprentice. Mind you, I'm from 00:03:08.520 --> 00:03:12.780 small town Kansas, middle of nowhere. Growing 00:03:12.780 --> 00:03:16.639 up, my parents rarely watched the news. We weren't 00:03:16.639 --> 00:03:20.199 a big TV family. We didn't really watch things. 00:03:20.300 --> 00:03:24.080 If the TV was on, my dad was watching those garage 00:03:24.080 --> 00:03:30.560 shows. That's what he watched. So I wasn't politically 00:03:30.560 --> 00:03:32.879 involved. I think the most I was ever politically 00:03:32.879 --> 00:03:37.460 involved was in middle school when Obama and 00:03:37.460 --> 00:03:41.060 Mitt Romney were running and we have like a mock 00:03:41.060 --> 00:03:45.479 election. And yes, in middle school, I chose 00:03:45.479 --> 00:03:50.979 Mitt Romney. I'm not laughing because it's funny. 00:03:51.039 --> 00:03:53.259 I'm laughing because looking back on it, like 00:03:53.259 --> 00:04:00.539 nobody. in my public education, like nobody taught 00:04:00.539 --> 00:04:06.039 me political, uh, what's, what's the word I'm 00:04:06.039 --> 00:04:10.699 looking for? Like, I just wasn't like, I wasn't 00:04:10.699 --> 00:04:14.139 politically informed. Like nobody really taught 00:04:14.139 --> 00:04:16.779 me anything besides propaganda. I just remember 00:04:16.779 --> 00:04:23.480 like in, in school, um, my teacher, so this would, 00:04:24.079 --> 00:04:26.399 obama would have been president um so like my 00:04:26.399 --> 00:04:31.500 junior senior year like he was a republican so 00:04:31.500 --> 00:04:34.939 of course there was bias in how he taught us 00:04:34.939 --> 00:04:42.839 civics and history so um i was just kind of put 00:04:42.839 --> 00:04:49.180 there you know um my father was very um verbally 00:04:49.180 --> 00:04:54.439 abusive and like He metaphorically beat the empathy 00:04:54.439 --> 00:04:56.600 out of me. My church did not teach me empathy. 00:04:56.740 --> 00:04:59.040 And a lot of people say, well, what kind of church 00:04:59.040 --> 00:05:03.620 doesn't teach empathy? Mine was like hellfire 00:05:03.620 --> 00:05:05.920 and doom. It was a non -denominational church. 00:05:06.060 --> 00:05:10.199 So no empathy there. And then, you know, growing 00:05:10.199 --> 00:05:15.220 up, him being abusive, even just verbally, you 00:05:15.220 --> 00:05:18.319 know, he's a very controlling person. My mother 00:05:18.319 --> 00:05:21.360 didn't step in to like, teach me politics. That 00:05:21.360 --> 00:05:25.699 was the least of her concerns. So empathy, political 00:05:25.699 --> 00:05:33.220 knowledge, none of that was given to me. So circa 00:05:33.220 --> 00:05:39.160 2016, that time comes around and I'm influenced 00:05:39.160 --> 00:05:43.120 by my community and it all seems normal to me. 00:05:43.339 --> 00:05:47.540 It's just another day, right? And Democrats are 00:05:47.540 --> 00:05:51.089 bad. Mind you, I knew nothing about the Democrats, 00:05:51.329 --> 00:05:55.470 knew none of their policies. I just knew that 00:05:55.470 --> 00:05:59.610 I was anti -abortion and wanted to make America 00:05:59.610 --> 00:06:04.329 great again. You know, it shows the the gravitational 00:06:04.329 --> 00:06:09.089 pull of conformity when others are around us 00:06:09.089 --> 00:06:12.170 and essentially everyone is thinking the same. 00:06:12.589 --> 00:06:17.189 And it's so easy to. succumb to the identical 00:06:17.189 --> 00:06:20.750 way of thinking that everybody around you and 00:06:20.750 --> 00:06:23.509 is thinking in the beliefs that they're espousing 00:06:23.509 --> 00:06:27.889 you know for me i grew up in a quintessential 00:06:27.889 --> 00:06:31.189 middle -class family my parents worked a variety 00:06:31.189 --> 00:06:33.589 of public and private sector jobs and they were 00:06:33.589 --> 00:06:37.129 so politically indifferent that to my knowledge 00:06:37.129 --> 00:06:40.250 i don't think my parents ever even voted yeah 00:06:40.250 --> 00:06:45.079 uh According to my mom, my dad's never been a 00:06:45.079 --> 00:06:48.079 registered voter. I don't know if he's a registered 00:06:48.079 --> 00:06:52.240 voter, but he is very much MAGA. He loves Donald 00:06:52.240 --> 00:06:56.899 Trump. And me and him had a little scuffle, kind 00:06:56.899 --> 00:07:00.560 of a verbal scuffle last summer because that's 00:07:00.560 --> 00:07:03.579 usually the only time I see him. I go visit at 00:07:03.579 --> 00:07:07.850 the lake. And last summer when we bombed Iran, 00:07:08.329 --> 00:07:13.389 he was like ecstatic. Like he was so happy and 00:07:13.389 --> 00:07:18.189 excited. And he said, he showed me a video and 00:07:18.189 --> 00:07:23.949 it was an AI video, like newsreel. It was weird. 00:07:24.949 --> 00:07:27.709 Talking about bombing Iran. And I said, why are 00:07:27.709 --> 00:07:29.730 you happy about that? And he's like, well, they're 00:07:29.730 --> 00:07:31.990 going to learn to respect us. I said, dad, we 00:07:31.990 --> 00:07:34.170 have been bombing the Middle East for decades. 00:07:35.129 --> 00:07:38.189 and they still don't like us so i don't think 00:07:38.189 --> 00:07:42.029 another bomb is going to make things better and 00:07:42.029 --> 00:07:45.470 he didn't have a rebuttal like he he just was 00:07:45.470 --> 00:07:48.930 you know how they get like mega always just like 00:07:48.930 --> 00:07:50.610 when they when they can't argue back they get 00:07:50.610 --> 00:07:55.149 angry and so he cut off the conversation and 00:07:55.149 --> 00:08:00.310 um it's just i'm kind of going on a tangent here 00:08:00.310 --> 00:08:08.120 but like the way that And MAGA thinks that doing 00:08:08.120 --> 00:08:10.959 these horrible, awful things is okay, but then 00:08:10.959 --> 00:08:13.639 like still calling themselves Christian. Like, 00:08:13.660 --> 00:08:16.319 I want to talk about that. Like that is something 00:08:16.319 --> 00:08:20.800 that I have a hard time reckoning with because 00:08:20.800 --> 00:08:23.379 I was a conservative Christian and now I'm an 00:08:23.379 --> 00:08:25.939 atheist. And I'm just like, how can you call 00:08:25.939 --> 00:08:27.839 yourself a Christian when this is what you support? 00:08:29.639 --> 00:08:32.700 Did you go through as part of leaving and we'll 00:08:32.700 --> 00:08:35.779 get to the reasons for leaving MAGA for you in 00:08:35.779 --> 00:08:39.980 a moment. But talk about maybe the religious 00:08:39.980 --> 00:08:44.340 deconstruction also that you went through. Yeah, 00:08:44.360 --> 00:08:52.639 I have always had questions. But the fear of 00:08:52.639 --> 00:08:57.620 hell is what kept me a Christian for over two 00:08:57.620 --> 00:09:04.299 decades. I remember the pieces starting to come 00:09:04.299 --> 00:09:08.500 undone and unraveled when I was getting married 00:09:08.500 --> 00:09:12.240 in 2020, which is when I left MAGA was like around 00:09:12.240 --> 00:09:18.100 summer, May of 2020. But like the religious deconstruction 00:09:18.100 --> 00:09:22.080 really took off for me because I asked my uncle 00:09:22.080 --> 00:09:25.779 who is an elder in the church or was at the time. 00:09:28.190 --> 00:09:31.470 will my husband who's an atheist, will he go 00:09:31.470 --> 00:09:36.070 to heaven with me? Um, and cause I'm in like 00:09:36.070 --> 00:09:39.549 the depths of MAGA at this point in 2020. And 00:09:39.549 --> 00:09:44.490 he had told me like, no, like your husband's 00:09:44.490 --> 00:09:47.210 going to burn in hell. Like I hated the answer 00:09:47.210 --> 00:09:50.389 that I got. Like it just, it didn't seem right. 00:09:50.529 --> 00:09:53.690 And even if it was the right answer, like what 00:09:53.690 --> 00:09:58.990 kind of God does that? Like it just, didn't resonate 00:09:58.990 --> 00:10:04.929 with me anymore. And so 2020, I was halfway through 00:10:04.929 --> 00:10:07.809 my bachelor's degree for industrial engineering. 00:10:07.870 --> 00:10:11.909 And I was really into researching and critical 00:10:11.909 --> 00:10:14.769 thinking and verifying sources, all the stuff 00:10:14.769 --> 00:10:17.990 you have to do for college in general, but, you 00:10:17.990 --> 00:10:20.309 know, especially, you know, a science degree. 00:10:22.299 --> 00:10:24.960 And I was just questioning everything. So questioning 00:10:24.960 --> 00:10:27.820 my religion, questioning my politics, questioning 00:10:27.820 --> 00:10:30.720 the people I was listening to and, you know, 00:10:30.720 --> 00:10:33.779 people in my own, you know, circle. Like I just 00:10:33.779 --> 00:10:37.759 had questions and nobody could give me good answers. 00:10:38.200 --> 00:10:43.120 A lot of times I found myself getting into political 00:10:43.120 --> 00:10:46.519 arguments and then going through the thought 00:10:46.519 --> 00:10:49.179 process and then getting mad and like circling 00:10:49.179 --> 00:10:52.779 back around and like, having a different answer 00:10:52.779 --> 00:10:57.820 because my thought process was changing. And 00:10:57.820 --> 00:11:01.519 so I just remember being very angry at one point 00:11:01.519 --> 00:11:04.759 because everything I had ever known and thought 00:11:04.759 --> 00:11:13.039 wasn't making sense anymore. I think that there 00:11:13.039 --> 00:11:20.860 is definitely a certain appeal to the black and 00:11:20.860 --> 00:11:24.399 white part of MAGA where there are these very 00:11:24.399 --> 00:11:28.440 simple answers for these very complex problems. 00:11:28.960 --> 00:11:34.259 And I feel like as someone who was a political 00:11:34.259 --> 00:11:39.120 independent in 2016, but was generally pretty 00:11:39.120 --> 00:11:42.419 ignorant and not well -read, I think looking 00:11:42.419 --> 00:11:46.480 back on it, I was ready -made for MAGA. I didn't 00:11:46.480 --> 00:11:50.610 have... There wasn't much of a religious aspect 00:11:50.610 --> 00:11:54.549 about MAGA for me. So there wasn't a religious 00:11:54.549 --> 00:11:57.389 deconstruction I went through. But there were 00:11:57.389 --> 00:12:03.110 times that I was around evangelicals. And it's 00:12:03.110 --> 00:12:07.990 why I believe that there had been a they who 00:12:07.990 --> 00:12:12.350 were trying to persecute Christians and erode 00:12:12.350 --> 00:12:15.090 Christianity out of our culture and out of our 00:12:15.090 --> 00:12:18.019 country. So I was around others. who believe 00:12:18.019 --> 00:12:19.759 that even though I wasn't the most religious 00:12:19.759 --> 00:12:25.440 Catholic. So take us through a little bit about 00:12:25.440 --> 00:12:29.379 life in MAGA for you and then some of the reasons 00:12:29.379 --> 00:12:34.559 that led you to eventually leave. Yeah. So when 00:12:34.559 --> 00:12:37.659 I was getting deep into MAGA, it would have been 00:12:37.659 --> 00:12:43.559 2018, 2019. It's all really blurry at this point. 00:12:44.759 --> 00:12:47.340 for multiple reasons, a I'm just so far detached 00:12:47.340 --> 00:12:50.600 from the thought process and thinking that I 00:12:50.600 --> 00:12:54.840 had back then. Um, but I also have, uh, PTSD 00:12:54.840 --> 00:12:58.620 and stuff from various events in my life. So, 00:12:58.620 --> 00:13:04.440 uh, remembering the best that I can, uh, that 00:13:04.440 --> 00:13:09.059 time of my life, I was listening to podcasts. 00:13:09.200 --> 00:13:12.960 So like Ben Shapiro, Matt Walsh, Megan Kelly, 00:13:14.150 --> 00:13:16.690 I'm trying to remember all the names, like all 00:13:16.690 --> 00:13:22.289 the right wing grifters as we know them. And 00:13:22.289 --> 00:13:24.330 people are going to argue with me over this one, 00:13:24.409 --> 00:13:28.289 but I was listening to Joe Rogan. Joe Rogan was 00:13:28.289 --> 00:13:34.549 a huge reason as to why. I voted for Donald Trump 00:13:34.549 --> 00:13:37.669 and ultimately got into conspiracy theories, 00:13:37.789 --> 00:13:40.769 which I feel like break down your frontal lobe 00:13:40.769 --> 00:13:43.529 even further. Like if you can buy into conspiracy 00:13:43.529 --> 00:13:46.850 theories, it like just deteriorates your brain 00:13:46.850 --> 00:13:51.169 and your critical thinking capability. Like it's 00:13:51.169 --> 00:13:55.549 a disease in my opinion. But I was just listening 00:13:55.549 --> 00:14:01.370 to these people and Ben Shapiro really started 00:14:01.370 --> 00:14:06.889 off. um, what, I mean, I would consider him now 00:14:06.889 --> 00:14:11.750 a moderate, but like at the time to me, he was 00:14:11.750 --> 00:14:16.149 very moderate. And then he just kind of went 00:14:16.149 --> 00:14:19.129 off the deep end and his support for Trump, um, 00:14:19.470 --> 00:14:24.789 really went to bat for him. And I thought Ben 00:14:24.789 --> 00:14:30.159 Shapiro was really smart. I'm sorry. Like, I 00:14:30.159 --> 00:14:32.679 just thought he had really good points and I'm 00:14:32.679 --> 00:14:35.419 only laughing because it's just, it's crazy. 00:14:35.659 --> 00:14:40.360 Like when you think back to the nonsense, um, 00:14:40.720 --> 00:14:43.639 like I don't remember a lot of Ben Shapiro's 00:14:43.639 --> 00:14:47.480 talking points, but, um, they made sense to me. 00:14:47.559 --> 00:14:53.120 And I was working in factories, um, long hours, 00:14:53.259 --> 00:14:57.919 um, sometimes at night. And, um, you know, when 00:14:57.919 --> 00:15:01.200 you're, just trying to get through your shift 00:15:01.200 --> 00:15:04.700 and you have your earbuds in and you're listening 00:15:04.700 --> 00:15:08.559 to these people for a 10 hour shift, that that's 00:15:08.559 --> 00:15:10.299 all you're consuming. So for me, it wasn't Fox 00:15:10.299 --> 00:15:14.679 news necessarily. I did, um, like late 2019, 00:15:14.820 --> 00:15:18.419 start watching like Fox and friends, um, kind 00:15:18.419 --> 00:15:22.820 of got into a little bit of Newsmax. Um, but 00:15:22.820 --> 00:15:27.350 it was mostly podcasts and. I found myself agreeing 00:15:27.350 --> 00:15:31.509 with these people. And then I would get in arguments 00:15:31.509 --> 00:15:35.110 with the people I loved that weren't MAGA, you 00:15:35.110 --> 00:15:39.370 know. I was a really angry person because I had 00:15:39.370 --> 00:15:42.870 hateful beliefs. I think I was mostly angry because 00:15:42.870 --> 00:15:44.870 I couldn't argue my point very good, probably. 00:15:47.549 --> 00:15:52.909 Well, I was somebody who was addicted to fear 00:15:52.909 --> 00:15:58.259 and rage when I was in MAGA. And the media that 00:15:58.259 --> 00:16:03.419 I consumed, you know, the Tucker Carlson's, the 00:16:03.419 --> 00:16:06.100 Breitbart's, this type of media, there was media 00:16:06.100 --> 00:16:08.840 that I wrote for. You know, I had bylines in 00:16:08.840 --> 00:16:12.059 places like Fox and The Federalist. I wrote for 00:16:12.059 --> 00:16:15.659 a site called World Net Daily, which popularized 00:16:15.659 --> 00:16:19.840 the Obama birther conspiracy theory. And I was 00:16:19.840 --> 00:16:23.340 producing. one freelance story after another 00:16:23.340 --> 00:16:26.039 for which I was never paid, nor did I ever ask 00:16:26.039 --> 00:16:28.679 any money for it. And the turning point for me, 00:16:28.779 --> 00:16:37.899 one of them was in the summer of 2021, I started 00:16:37.899 --> 00:16:40.480 to diversify my news and information sources. 00:16:41.299 --> 00:16:44.519 Yes. So talk about that a little bit and how 00:16:44.519 --> 00:16:47.399 that eventually led you on the pathway to leaving. 00:16:47.779 --> 00:16:53.419 Yeah. So Back to it would have been late 2019, 00:16:53.720 --> 00:16:59.679 early 2020. And again, questioning my religion, 00:16:59.799 --> 00:17:04.099 questioning my politics. I remember being on 00:17:04.099 --> 00:17:08.319 my lunch break and watching Fox and Friends, 00:17:08.440 --> 00:17:13.160 I guess. It was Kaylee McEnany. And she was talking 00:17:13.160 --> 00:17:18.119 about like the names for children's private parts. 00:17:19.150 --> 00:17:23.230 And she said that children should not know the 00:17:23.230 --> 00:17:27.130 anatomical names for their privates. And when 00:17:27.130 --> 00:17:31.269 she said that, like alarm bells started going 00:17:31.269 --> 00:17:34.750 off and I was like, whoa, like that, that's weird. 00:17:34.910 --> 00:17:38.109 That is weird. That's not okay. And I actually 00:17:38.109 --> 00:17:42.309 stopped watching like completely. Like I, it 00:17:42.309 --> 00:17:44.529 was, that was enough. I was like, I'm not listening 00:17:44.529 --> 00:17:48.329 to anybody that says some. stuff like that. Like, 00:17:48.349 --> 00:17:55.410 no, thank you. Um, and so I don't think I purposely 00:17:55.410 --> 00:18:04.170 sought out different media. Um, I 2020 with, 00:18:04.250 --> 00:18:09.190 with COVID TikTok got popular and I never got 00:18:09.190 --> 00:18:14.390 onto the red pill side. Like I immediately got 00:18:14.390 --> 00:18:22.170 into left wing spaces. So I was hearing things 00:18:22.170 --> 00:18:26.549 for the first time and agreeing with them, like 00:18:26.549 --> 00:18:30.160 hearing these different perspectives. And it 00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:33.619 just, I just launched from there. So, you know, 00:18:33.640 --> 00:18:37.000 I don't know the exact day that I left MAGA. 00:18:37.039 --> 00:18:40.000 I do know that around the time that George Floyd 00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:43.240 was killed and all the BLM stuff was happening 00:18:43.240 --> 00:18:46.720 in the height of COVID -19, I had realized like, 00:18:46.859 --> 00:18:48.900 hey, I'm done with this because I was listening 00:18:48.900 --> 00:18:51.579 to Donald Trump talk for the first time. I know 00:18:51.579 --> 00:18:53.500 that's going to sound crazy to the people watching, 00:18:53.880 --> 00:18:56.859 but that was the first time that I had like actually 00:18:57.740 --> 00:19:00.259 listened to this man. Like I didn't go to rallies. 00:19:00.339 --> 00:19:04.279 I didn't watch the news really, but I was watching 00:19:04.279 --> 00:19:07.700 him every day on, on press briefings. Um, and 00:19:07.700 --> 00:19:12.779 I was like, this guy's a moron. Like he's, this 00:19:12.779 --> 00:19:15.160 is not okay. Like this, I can't believe I ever 00:19:15.160 --> 00:19:20.539 supported this guy. Um, and so TikTok hearing 00:19:20.539 --> 00:19:24.819 information that I hadn't heard before also introduced 00:19:24.819 --> 00:19:29.039 me, um, because the AP, Associated Press is on 00:19:29.039 --> 00:19:32.160 TikTok. I started getting a lot of information 00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:37.900 from them. And ultimately, I stopped watching 00:19:37.900 --> 00:19:42.480 the daily press briefings for COVID -19. And 00:19:42.480 --> 00:19:49.039 really just dove into democratic socialism. So 00:19:49.039 --> 00:19:51.440 I thought I was a libertarian for a little while. 00:19:53.680 --> 00:19:58.700 And I was even while I was a libertarian, I labeled 00:19:58.700 --> 00:20:04.019 myself that I was still consuming like leftist 00:20:04.019 --> 00:20:08.319 voices. So so intrigued by it. Like I was a whole 00:20:08.319 --> 00:20:13.859 new world to me. And it made sense. And mind 00:20:13.859 --> 00:20:18.720 you, I was in college. I was diversifying my 00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:25.329 my circle experiencing. uh a diverse group of 00:20:25.329 --> 00:20:30.329 people and i really started to gain back the 00:20:30.329 --> 00:20:33.190 empathy that i you know like i said had been 00:20:33.190 --> 00:20:40.210 beat out of me um and i like i said i catapulted 00:20:40.210 --> 00:20:43.750 from being a libertarian to a democratic socialist 00:20:43.750 --> 00:20:48.829 and and have been since so well i i say when 00:20:48.829 --> 00:20:54.359 when we leave maga We reclaim our individuality, 00:20:54.359 --> 00:20:57.720 our agency, and our empathy. And we become what 00:20:57.720 --> 00:21:01.799 I call a born -again human being. And for me, 00:21:01.819 --> 00:21:05.799 leaving MAGA was good for my soul, my psyche, 00:21:05.859 --> 00:21:12.619 and my mental health. It was a way for when I 00:21:12.619 --> 00:21:16.839 left, it was terrifying for me at first because 00:21:16.839 --> 00:21:19.130 I was going to... I knew I was going to be walking 00:21:19.130 --> 00:21:22.289 away from a second family. And I also had to 00:21:22.289 --> 00:21:24.809 acknowledge that I had allowed myself to be lied 00:21:24.809 --> 00:21:27.390 to. And I had believed those lies and had crafted 00:21:27.390 --> 00:21:31.130 an entire persona, identity, and worldview based 00:21:31.130 --> 00:21:34.210 on lies, falsehoods, and conspiracy theories. 00:21:34.809 --> 00:21:38.630 So it's what made it so scary. But it got to 00:21:38.630 --> 00:21:40.769 a point where there was one lie, one betrayal, 00:21:40.869 --> 00:21:44.589 too many. And in the summer of 2022, I just... 00:21:44.839 --> 00:21:46.819 I could not look the other way anymore. I had 00:21:46.819 --> 00:21:49.460 reached my red line. And when I reached this 00:21:49.460 --> 00:21:51.880 line of demarcation, I didn't cross it. I said, 00:21:51.880 --> 00:21:55.000 you know what, I can't stay in this movement 00:21:55.000 --> 00:21:57.460 anymore. It does not comport with my values. 00:21:57.700 --> 00:22:01.880 And, you know, it seems like that is a similar 00:22:01.880 --> 00:22:04.539 experience for you, that you came to where you 00:22:04.539 --> 00:22:09.099 just, you reach a point where you cannot support 00:22:09.099 --> 00:22:13.059 the president anymore. You cannot be an advocate 00:22:13.059 --> 00:22:16.660 anymore for MAGA policies. And that was how it 00:22:16.660 --> 00:22:20.900 was for me. And I'm coming up to what I call 00:22:20.900 --> 00:22:24.299 my leaving MAGAversary because I left on August 00:22:24.299 --> 00:22:27.599 30th, 2022. So it's going to be four years for 00:22:27.599 --> 00:22:32.119 me in August. And I look back on it. And the 00:22:32.119 --> 00:22:34.400 fact is, Bailey, there's not a singular second 00:22:34.400 --> 00:22:36.740 that I've ever thought that I made the wrong 00:22:36.740 --> 00:22:41.549 decision. No regrets for me. Yeah, I'm very similar 00:22:41.549 --> 00:22:46.589 to you. As you know, you reached that line and 00:22:46.589 --> 00:22:51.109 you were just like, I can't do it anymore. But 00:22:51.109 --> 00:22:57.910 for me, the time between me leaving, like when 00:22:57.910 --> 00:23:01.289 I knew I had left and I was done with it, to 00:23:01.289 --> 00:23:04.230 the time that I became like, I realized I was 00:23:04.230 --> 00:23:08.410 a democratic socialist. I had deconstructed alone. 00:23:09.190 --> 00:23:14.250 Leaving MAGA is the first step of the deconstruction. 00:23:14.250 --> 00:23:16.450 Now, maybe some deconstruction was happening 00:23:16.450 --> 00:23:20.069 before that that led us to leave, but there's 00:23:20.069 --> 00:23:24.849 a lot of deprogramming that has to happen. Unfortunately, 00:23:25.509 --> 00:23:29.589 I voted for Donald Trump in 2020. Now, I don't 00:23:29.589 --> 00:23:32.609 make excuses for that, but people ask me why. 00:23:34.519 --> 00:23:37.420 my thought process at that time although i had 00:23:37.420 --> 00:23:41.759 left maga i hated donald trump i i did not want 00:23:41.759 --> 00:23:44.680 to vote for him but democrats were still bad 00:23:44.680 --> 00:23:48.339 because i was a libertarian at the time um and 00:23:48.339 --> 00:23:50.460 this is still a thing today a lot of libertarians 00:23:50.460 --> 00:23:53.460 don't like people on the left um i don't want 00:23:53.460 --> 00:23:55.359 to speak for all libertarians but that is in 00:23:55.359 --> 00:23:58.980 my experience something that i've heard and so 00:23:58.980 --> 00:24:01.720 especially at that time you know democrats bad 00:24:01.720 --> 00:24:07.230 um But I knew I had to vote. And so how I justified 00:24:07.230 --> 00:24:11.150 it at that time was I was voting for the lesser 00:24:11.150 --> 00:24:15.230 of two evils. That's that's flackable. Like what 00:24:15.230 --> 00:24:18.369 was evil about Joe Biden? Nothing, literally 00:24:18.369 --> 00:24:22.529 nothing. As far as if you're comparing, you know, 00:24:22.529 --> 00:24:29.119 to Donald Trump, we can go into. leftist politics 00:24:29.119 --> 00:24:31.640 but i don't want to dive into that uh if we're 00:24:31.640 --> 00:24:33.980 gonna i don't want to criticize joe biden um 00:24:33.980 --> 00:24:39.539 as part of this story but if i'm gonna vote and 00:24:39.539 --> 00:24:43.299 and and pick out of the two options i have i 00:24:43.299 --> 00:24:46.779 really pardon my french but fucked up and i chose 00:24:46.779 --> 00:24:49.759 donald trump and i had regret over that even 00:24:49.759 --> 00:24:54.299 though donald trump didn't get elected um i think 00:24:54.970 --> 00:24:59.970 that the fact that he even had uh the opportunity 00:24:59.970 --> 00:25:03.269 to to run again that he wasn't ran out of town 00:25:03.269 --> 00:25:06.470 after the first time you know like i feel guilty 00:25:06.470 --> 00:25:09.450 like i was a part of that you know like i i i 00:25:09.450 --> 00:25:13.069 left maga why did you you know why bailey did 00:25:13.069 --> 00:25:17.269 you do that and so um something i wanted to get 00:25:17.269 --> 00:25:20.069 into when you asked me to to do this interview 00:25:20.069 --> 00:25:27.509 um is The phenomenon that's happening now on 00:25:27.509 --> 00:25:30.309 social media, specifically TikTok, you guys started 00:25:30.309 --> 00:25:35.210 the leaving MAGA trend. And I've shared my story 00:25:35.210 --> 00:25:40.549 with the leaving MAGA hashtag. But in the year 00:25:40.549 --> 00:25:45.430 2026, there's a lot of prominent MAGA folk who 00:25:45.430 --> 00:25:50.529 have laughed, have publicly stated that they're 00:25:50.529 --> 00:25:54.240 no longer MAGA. And a lot of people who have, 00:25:54.660 --> 00:25:57.299 you know, never voted for Donald Trump, always 00:25:57.299 --> 00:26:03.579 been leftists of some sort are expecting these 00:26:03.579 --> 00:26:08.640 people to change overnight. And the reason why, 00:26:08.700 --> 00:26:10.960 you know, you and I are even having this discussion 00:26:10.960 --> 00:26:15.180 is to showcase that deconstruction, true deconstruction 00:26:15.180 --> 00:26:18.740 doesn't happen overnight. This has been years 00:26:18.740 --> 00:26:25.289 long. journey for us. Um, now with the help of 00:26:25.289 --> 00:26:29.769 the internet, uh, I have seen, uh, specific creators. 00:26:29.869 --> 00:26:31.490 I'm going to call her out. She's a mutual mind 00:26:31.490 --> 00:26:38.430 Carter. Um, she has like rocket speed deconstructed. 00:26:38.450 --> 00:26:42.369 She has openly taken feedback and learned and, 00:26:42.390 --> 00:26:46.069 and done the, her due diligence, um, to deconstruct 00:26:46.069 --> 00:26:49.430 not only her religion, but her politics. Um, 00:26:49.950 --> 00:26:52.910 But I don't want people to think that that is 00:26:52.910 --> 00:26:56.589 the standard when it comes to leaving MAGA. Leaving 00:26:56.589 --> 00:27:00.650 MAGA to me is the first step in deconstruction. 00:27:00.829 --> 00:27:05.430 It's saying I'm done. I realized that I was duped. 00:27:05.829 --> 00:27:09.849 I realized that I was wrong because you have 00:27:09.849 --> 00:27:13.470 to go through that accountability and accept 00:27:13.470 --> 00:27:16.450 some things that are going to be really hard 00:27:16.450 --> 00:27:20.680 truths. And then you can work on deconstruction 00:27:20.680 --> 00:27:23.319 and it doesn't always have to be religious deconstruction, 00:27:23.339 --> 00:27:26.160 although I think that plays a big part for a 00:27:26.160 --> 00:27:30.619 lot of people. But just even taking it day by 00:27:30.619 --> 00:27:34.519 day and reading books, listening to voices that 00:27:34.519 --> 00:27:37.099 you don't normally listen to, like that's what 00:27:37.099 --> 00:27:40.779 I do with my platform is try to have genuine 00:27:40.779 --> 00:27:44.720 conversation with people about deconstruction. 00:27:46.569 --> 00:27:50.190 And that it looks different for everybody. No, 00:27:50.289 --> 00:27:54.130 it is a process. For me, it took me an entire 00:27:54.130 --> 00:28:00.589 year to make the decision to leave. And I think 00:28:00.589 --> 00:28:05.109 that, so there's really two steps that I always 00:28:05.109 --> 00:28:08.670 say about what it takes to leave MAGA and what 00:28:08.670 --> 00:28:12.839 that actually means. The first is that it is 00:28:12.839 --> 00:28:15.660 not enough to just distance oneself from the 00:28:15.660 --> 00:28:18.839 president. Someone has to, in order to leave, 00:28:18.960 --> 00:28:22.380 renounce the lies, falsehoods and conspiracy 00:28:22.380 --> 00:28:26.079 theories of mega politics. And the second part 00:28:26.079 --> 00:28:32.420 is to build up rather than tear down democracy. 00:28:32.500 --> 00:28:35.920 And the way that we define that is by making 00:28:35.920 --> 00:28:39.599 the continued case. that we as a people agree 00:28:39.599 --> 00:28:44.359 more than we disagree. And I feel like both of 00:28:44.359 --> 00:28:48.740 those have to happen and they need to be, and 00:28:48.740 --> 00:28:51.779 they need to consistently occur in order for 00:28:51.779 --> 00:28:55.720 one to leave MAGA and stay out of MAGA. Because 00:28:55.720 --> 00:29:01.380 we don't, as an organization, we don't require 00:29:01.380 --> 00:29:05.359 anyone to have to apologize, but we do encourage 00:29:05.359 --> 00:29:08.880 it though. Because there's something really cathartic 00:29:08.880 --> 00:29:12.259 about making a public apology and people see 00:29:12.259 --> 00:29:17.480 that there's a genuine attempt to make amends. 00:29:17.559 --> 00:29:20.420 Yeah. Because something, Bailey, that you and 00:29:20.420 --> 00:29:23.160 I and all of our leaders in leaving MAGA, what 00:29:23.160 --> 00:29:27.160 we embody and what we confirm is that it is possible 00:29:27.160 --> 00:29:32.779 for someone to change their mind. And as we wrap 00:29:32.779 --> 00:29:36.160 up here, something I want to ask you. To conclude 00:29:36.160 --> 00:29:41.680 is, why do you feel the need to speak up? Why 00:29:41.680 --> 00:29:44.299 is that important for you to keep making the 00:29:44.299 --> 00:29:47.539 videos that you do, keep being the public advocate 00:29:47.539 --> 00:29:51.859 that you are for leaving MAGA? How am I going 00:29:51.859 --> 00:29:56.859 to get emotional on this one? Because I understand 00:29:56.859 --> 00:30:04.799 the magnitude, the effect, the harm. that my 00:30:04.799 --> 00:30:10.640 vote caused. And the least, the very least thing 00:30:10.640 --> 00:30:15.819 that I can do is speak out and try to reach others. 00:30:15.880 --> 00:30:19.900 Now, I have done other activism and advocacy 00:30:19.900 --> 00:30:24.700 since I have left MAGA. I was a public education 00:30:24.700 --> 00:30:28.920 advocate. until I got my cancer diagnosis and 00:30:28.920 --> 00:30:32.960 then I stepped away. I've led a statewide group 00:30:32.960 --> 00:30:36.299 here in Oklahoma advocating for public education, 00:30:36.599 --> 00:30:41.880 advocated against Ryan Walters, if you know who 00:30:41.880 --> 00:30:44.660 that guy is. Yes, superintendent of schools. 00:30:45.140 --> 00:30:52.069 Yeah, he's, yeah. But... And again, Kyle, like 00:30:52.069 --> 00:30:55.230 you said, I do it to show people that it's possible 00:30:55.230 --> 00:31:00.349 and that it is happening. Like I had been on 00:31:00.349 --> 00:31:04.190 TikTok for a little while before I started sharing 00:31:04.190 --> 00:31:09.730 my story, but I was talking politics mostly. 00:31:09.829 --> 00:31:16.670 And then I realized like I was good at it. I 00:31:16.670 --> 00:31:20.789 was good at. you know, sharing stories and telling 00:31:20.789 --> 00:31:25.670 my truth. And so I just decided one day to be 00:31:25.670 --> 00:31:27.789 very vulnerable because it is a vulnerable thing. 00:31:27.910 --> 00:31:31.990 People are really mean and rightfully so, rightfully 00:31:31.990 --> 00:31:34.809 so, like I deserve all the mean comments I get. 00:31:35.250 --> 00:31:41.970 And I just think that people, whether MAGA or 00:31:41.970 --> 00:31:47.210 not, need to hear it because A, it gives hope. 00:31:48.869 --> 00:31:53.369 B, it creates a space for those who are on the 00:31:53.369 --> 00:31:57.210 fence. I have, I mean, it's not a lot, but I've 00:31:57.210 --> 00:32:01.630 had several people come to me and tell me that 00:32:01.630 --> 00:32:03.950 I helped them leave MAGA. And I didn't even talk 00:32:03.950 --> 00:32:06.130 to them directly. They just watched my videos. 00:32:08.329 --> 00:32:11.269 I mean, we need to meet those people. You need 00:32:11.269 --> 00:32:13.950 to introduce them to us. Well, one was actually 00:32:13.950 --> 00:32:17.049 somebody I know from high school and I didn't 00:32:17.049 --> 00:32:19.289 even know they were MAGA. Like we didn't go to 00:32:19.289 --> 00:32:21.569 the same school, but she actually commented on 00:32:21.569 --> 00:32:24.789 my video the other day and said, you helped me 00:32:24.789 --> 00:32:26.930 leave MAGA. Thank you for your videos. And I 00:32:26.930 --> 00:32:31.130 was like, you know, and I don't do any of it 00:32:31.130 --> 00:32:34.309 for clout. Like most of my videos don't go anywhere, 00:32:34.390 --> 00:32:38.759 but. I'm still reaching people. And you know 00:32:38.759 --> 00:32:44.019 what? That's the least I can do. So. Well, you 00:32:44.019 --> 00:32:48.420 are making an incredibly positive impact. You 00:32:48.420 --> 00:32:50.720 know, I want to thank you for everything that 00:32:50.720 --> 00:32:52.880 you've done for being a proponent for leaving 00:32:52.880 --> 00:32:55.519 MAGA. It does not go unnoticed. You are an invaluable 00:32:55.519 --> 00:33:00.720 member of our community. You've shown great intrepidity 00:33:00.720 --> 00:33:03.740 and courage in speaking out the way that you 00:33:03.740 --> 00:33:07.970 do. So as we close here, tell us where everyone 00:33:07.970 --> 00:33:12.730 can find you and follow you. I am on TikTok as 00:33:12.730 --> 00:33:18.910 at Congenial Okie. I do have two profiles. One 00:33:18.910 --> 00:33:21.890 is like 2 .0. I don't use that one very much. 00:33:21.930 --> 00:33:25.250 That's my backup. But at Congenial Okie, my name 00:33:25.250 --> 00:33:27.490 is Congenial Okie on there with a blue heart. 00:33:27.789 --> 00:33:31.710 I'm not on Instagram or anything like that. So 00:33:31.710 --> 00:33:35.359 just come find me on TikTok. Okay, well, I'm 00:33:35.359 --> 00:33:37.920 sure people are going to come to you. And as 00:33:37.920 --> 00:33:43.200 those who are having their doubts, what I want 00:33:43.200 --> 00:33:45.740 to say on behalf of Bailey and myself is that 00:33:45.740 --> 00:33:49.880 if you're seeing this and you're in MAG and you're 00:33:49.880 --> 00:33:51.859 having doubts, we want you to know that you are 00:33:51.859 --> 00:33:55.319 not alone, that we have been where you are, and 00:33:55.319 --> 00:33:59.539 that we, as a leaving MAGA community, can provide 00:33:59.539 --> 00:34:03.339 you the support needed in order to go through 00:34:03.339 --> 00:34:06.539 the odyssey of making that decision to finally 00:34:06.539 --> 00:34:10.619 walk away and leave MAGA. Bailey, it was really 00:34:10.619 --> 00:34:13.980 great to see you. You know, you're always so 00:34:13.980 --> 00:34:17.679 articulate in the way that you express your upbringing 00:34:17.679 --> 00:34:21.300 and why you left and why you're doing what you're 00:34:21.300 --> 00:34:24.780 doing. I just want to again give my thanks to 00:34:24.780 --> 00:34:27.119 you on behalf of everyone at Leaving MAGA. We 00:34:27.119 --> 00:34:30.039 were with Bailey Tyler from... State of Oklahoma, 00:34:30.280 --> 00:34:32.099 Bailey, thank you again. It was good to see you. 00:34:33.460 --> 00:34:35.380 Hey, everybody. If you like this video, make 00:34:35.380 --> 00:34:37.500 sure you drop a comment. Make sure you subscribe. 00:34:37.780 --> 00:34:40.739 And also be sure to visit us at leavingmaga .org. 00:34:40.860 --> 00:34:43.079 You can read more of our testimonials. You can 00:34:43.079 --> 00:34:45.239 contact us. You can subscribe to our newsletter. 00:34:45.760 --> 00:34:48.079 You can get information on our support groups 00:34:48.079 --> 00:34:50.159 that we hold every week for friends and relatives 00:34:50.159 --> 00:34:52.719 of those in MAGA. And you can get information 00:34:52.719 --> 00:34:55.599 on my memoir, One Betrayal, Too Many, Why I Left 00:34:55.599 --> 00:34:58.170 MAGA. And any questions that you have, you can 00:34:58.170 --> 00:35:01.010 feel free to bring them to our weekly live stream, 00:35:01.210 --> 00:35:03.949 which is at Wednesday, one o 'clock Eastern across 00:35:03.949 --> 00:35:06.469 all of our socials. As always, we appreciate 00:35:06.469 --> 00:35:08.349 you watching. Thanks for your support.