Hey, everybody. Rich here at Leaving MAGA at
leavingmaga .org. As always, we thank you for
all of your support. And we really appreciate
all the engagement that you've shown us with
our leader conversations where we speak with
others who, like myself, were deep in MAGA and
left. We are joined today by her nickname is
the congenial Okie, Bailey Tyler from the great
state of Oklahoma. Bailey, it is good to see
you again. I really appreciate you being here.
Yeah, thanks for having me. So let's get right
into this here and talk about, if you'll take
us through, what some of the attraction was for
you to MAGA and why you originally found yourself
being enticed by joining the MAGA community.
So in 2016, when Donald Trump was running for
the presidency, It was really, for me, the thing
that enticed me was not only the community support
or community, like everybody in my community
was MAGA, right? And so all I was hearing was
about how he's going to fix the economy. And
it's been so long at this point, like that's
really the only thing I can remember other than,
because I was a very like deeply conservative
Christian. I was anti -abortion and Donald Trump
has changed his stance 20 times. But at that
time, he was anti -abortion. So I was all for
that. Right. But other than that, he was just
going to make America great again. And to a simple
minded person, and I was very simple minded,
you don't have to think much deeper than that.
Like just surface level, making America great
was enticing, especially when. You hold racist
beliefs and someone who is racist isn't going
to admit that they're racist. So I'm trying to
get ahead of the thoughts and questions people
are going to have in the audience. Because I've
been asked these questions a lot of times. So
I'm trying to make sure I'm explaining myself
clearly and covering the bases, but without going
on a tangent. But what enticed me? was very surface
level. Um, and there, there wasn't much thought
to it. It was just, Hey, we're going to make
America great. And, and then you're just, you're
sold. Right. So were you a particularly political
person? in 2015 because i'm curious about that
also in terms of how apolitical you may have
been no a comment i get asked a lot is how did
you not know like everyone knows who donald trump
is and 20 19 year old 20 year old me I had never
even heard of The Apprentice. Mind you, I'm from
small town Kansas, middle of nowhere. Growing
up, my parents rarely watched the news. We weren't
a big TV family. We didn't really watch things.
If the TV was on, my dad was watching those garage
shows. That's what he watched. So I wasn't politically
involved. I think the most I was ever politically
involved was in middle school when Obama and
Mitt Romney were running and we have like a mock
election. And yes, in middle school, I chose
Mitt Romney. I'm not laughing because it's funny.
I'm laughing because looking back on it, like
nobody. in my public education, like nobody taught
me political, uh, what's, what's the word I'm
looking for? Like, I just wasn't like, I wasn't
politically informed. Like nobody really taught
me anything besides propaganda. I just remember
like in, in school, um, my teacher, so this would,
obama would have been president um so like my
junior senior year like he was a republican so
of course there was bias in how he taught us
civics and history so um i was just kind of put
there you know um my father was very um verbally
abusive and like He metaphorically beat the empathy
out of me. My church did not teach me empathy.
And a lot of people say, well, what kind of church
doesn't teach empathy? Mine was like hellfire
and doom. It was a non -denominational church.
So no empathy there. And then, you know, growing
up, him being abusive, even just verbally, you
know, he's a very controlling person. My mother
didn't step in to like, teach me politics. That
was the least of her concerns. So empathy, political
knowledge, none of that was given to me. So circa
2016, that time comes around and I'm influenced
by my community and it all seems normal to me.
It's just another day, right? And Democrats are
bad. Mind you, I knew nothing about the Democrats,
knew none of their policies. I just knew that
I was anti -abortion and wanted to make America
great again. You know, it shows the the gravitational
pull of conformity when others are around us
and essentially everyone is thinking the same.
And it's so easy to. succumb to the identical
way of thinking that everybody around you and
is thinking in the beliefs that they're espousing
you know for me i grew up in a quintessential
middle -class family my parents worked a variety
of public and private sector jobs and they were
so politically indifferent that to my knowledge
i don't think my parents ever even voted yeah
uh According to my mom, my dad's never been a
registered voter. I don't know if he's a registered
voter, but he is very much MAGA. He loves Donald
Trump. And me and him had a little scuffle, kind
of a verbal scuffle last summer because that's
usually the only time I see him. I go visit at
the lake. And last summer when we bombed Iran,
he was like ecstatic. Like he was so happy and
excited. And he said, he showed me a video and
it was an AI video, like newsreel. It was weird.
Talking about bombing Iran. And I said, why are
you happy about that? And he's like, well, they're
going to learn to respect us. I said, dad, we
have been bombing the Middle East for decades.
and they still don't like us so i don't think
another bomb is going to make things better and
he didn't have a rebuttal like he he just was
you know how they get like mega always just like
when they when they can't argue back they get
angry and so he cut off the conversation and
um it's just i'm kind of going on a tangent here
but like the way that And MAGA thinks that doing
these horrible, awful things is okay, but then
like still calling themselves Christian. Like,
I want to talk about that. Like that is something
that I have a hard time reckoning with because
I was a conservative Christian and now I'm an
atheist. And I'm just like, how can you call
yourself a Christian when this is what you support?
Did you go through as part of leaving and we'll
get to the reasons for leaving MAGA for you in
a moment. But talk about maybe the religious
deconstruction also that you went through. Yeah,
I have always had questions. But the fear of
hell is what kept me a Christian for over two
decades. I remember the pieces starting to come
undone and unraveled when I was getting married
in 2020, which is when I left MAGA was like around
summer, May of 2020. But like the religious deconstruction
really took off for me because I asked my uncle
who is an elder in the church or was at the time.
will my husband who's an atheist, will he go
to heaven with me? Um, and cause I'm in like
the depths of MAGA at this point in 2020. And
he had told me like, no, like your husband's
going to burn in hell. Like I hated the answer
that I got. Like it just, it didn't seem right.
And even if it was the right answer, like what
kind of God does that? Like it just, didn't resonate
with me anymore. And so 2020, I was halfway through
my bachelor's degree for industrial engineering.
And I was really into researching and critical
thinking and verifying sources, all the stuff
you have to do for college in general, but, you
know, especially, you know, a science degree.
And I was just questioning everything. So questioning
my religion, questioning my politics, questioning
the people I was listening to and, you know,
people in my own, you know, circle. Like I just
had questions and nobody could give me good answers.
A lot of times I found myself getting into political
arguments and then going through the thought
process and then getting mad and like circling
back around and like, having a different answer
because my thought process was changing. And
so I just remember being very angry at one point
because everything I had ever known and thought
wasn't making sense anymore. I think that there
is definitely a certain appeal to the black and
white part of MAGA where there are these very
simple answers for these very complex problems.
And I feel like as someone who was a political
independent in 2016, but was generally pretty
ignorant and not well -read, I think looking
back on it, I was ready -made for MAGA. I didn't
have... There wasn't much of a religious aspect
about MAGA for me. So there wasn't a religious
deconstruction I went through. But there were
times that I was around evangelicals. And it's
why I believe that there had been a they who
were trying to persecute Christians and erode
Christianity out of our culture and out of our
country. So I was around others. who believe
that even though I wasn't the most religious
Catholic. So take us through a little bit about
life in MAGA for you and then some of the reasons
that led you to eventually leave. Yeah. So when
I was getting deep into MAGA, it would have been
2018, 2019. It's all really blurry at this point.
for multiple reasons, a I'm just so far detached
from the thought process and thinking that I
had back then. Um, but I also have, uh, PTSD
and stuff from various events in my life. So,
uh, remembering the best that I can, uh, that
time of my life, I was listening to podcasts.
So like Ben Shapiro, Matt Walsh, Megan Kelly,
I'm trying to remember all the names, like all
the right wing grifters as we know them. And
people are going to argue with me over this one,
but I was listening to Joe Rogan. Joe Rogan was
a huge reason as to why. I voted for Donald Trump
and ultimately got into conspiracy theories,
which I feel like break down your frontal lobe
even further. Like if you can buy into conspiracy
theories, it like just deteriorates your brain
and your critical thinking capability. Like it's
a disease in my opinion. But I was just listening
to these people and Ben Shapiro really started
off. um, what, I mean, I would consider him now
a moderate, but like at the time to me, he was
very moderate. And then he just kind of went
off the deep end and his support for Trump, um,
really went to bat for him. And I thought Ben
Shapiro was really smart. I'm sorry. Like, I
just thought he had really good points and I'm
only laughing because it's just, it's crazy.
Like when you think back to the nonsense, um,
like I don't remember a lot of Ben Shapiro's
talking points, but, um, they made sense to me.
And I was working in factories, um, long hours,
um, sometimes at night. And, um, you know, when
you're, just trying to get through your shift
and you have your earbuds in and you're listening
to these people for a 10 hour shift, that that's
all you're consuming. So for me, it wasn't Fox
news necessarily. I did, um, like late 2019,
start watching like Fox and friends, um, kind
of got into a little bit of Newsmax. Um, but
it was mostly podcasts and. I found myself agreeing
with these people. And then I would get in arguments
with the people I loved that weren't MAGA, you
know. I was a really angry person because I had
hateful beliefs. I think I was mostly angry because
I couldn't argue my point very good, probably.
Well, I was somebody who was addicted to fear
and rage when I was in MAGA. And the media that
I consumed, you know, the Tucker Carlson's, the
Breitbart's, this type of media, there was media
that I wrote for. You know, I had bylines in
places like Fox and The Federalist. I wrote for
a site called World Net Daily, which popularized
the Obama birther conspiracy theory. And I was
producing. one freelance story after another
for which I was never paid, nor did I ever ask
any money for it. And the turning point for me,
one of them was in the summer of 2021, I started
to diversify my news and information sources.
Yes. So talk about that a little bit and how
that eventually led you on the pathway to leaving.
Yeah. So Back to it would have been late 2019,
early 2020. And again, questioning my religion,
questioning my politics. I remember being on
my lunch break and watching Fox and Friends,
I guess. It was Kaylee McEnany. And she was talking
about like the names for children's private parts.
And she said that children should not know the
anatomical names for their privates. And when
she said that, like alarm bells started going
off and I was like, whoa, like that, that's weird.
That is weird. That's not okay. And I actually
stopped watching like completely. Like I, it
was, that was enough. I was like, I'm not listening
to anybody that says some. stuff like that. Like,
no, thank you. Um, and so I don't think I purposely
sought out different media. Um, I 2020 with,
with COVID TikTok got popular and I never got
onto the red pill side. Like I immediately got
into left wing spaces. So I was hearing things
for the first time and agreeing with them, like
hearing these different perspectives. And it
just, I just launched from there. So, you know,
I don't know the exact day that I left MAGA.
I do know that around the time that George Floyd
was killed and all the BLM stuff was happening
in the height of COVID -19, I had realized like,
hey, I'm done with this because I was listening
to Donald Trump talk for the first time. I know
that's going to sound crazy to the people watching,
but that was the first time that I had like actually
listened to this man. Like I didn't go to rallies.
I didn't watch the news really, but I was watching
him every day on, on press briefings. Um, and
I was like, this guy's a moron. Like he's, this
is not okay. Like this, I can't believe I ever
supported this guy. Um, and so TikTok hearing
information that I hadn't heard before also introduced
me, um, because the AP, Associated Press is on
TikTok. I started getting a lot of information
from them. And ultimately, I stopped watching
the daily press briefings for COVID -19. And
really just dove into democratic socialism. So
I thought I was a libertarian for a little while.
And I was even while I was a libertarian, I labeled
myself that I was still consuming like leftist
voices. So so intrigued by it. Like I was a whole
new world to me. And it made sense. And mind
you, I was in college. I was diversifying my
my circle experiencing. uh a diverse group of
people and i really started to gain back the
empathy that i you know like i said had been
beat out of me um and i like i said i catapulted
from being a libertarian to a democratic socialist
and and have been since so well i i say when
when we leave maga We reclaim our individuality,
our agency, and our empathy. And we become what
I call a born -again human being. And for me,
leaving MAGA was good for my soul, my psyche,
and my mental health. It was a way for when I
left, it was terrifying for me at first because
I was going to... I knew I was going to be walking
away from a second family. And I also had to
acknowledge that I had allowed myself to be lied
to. And I had believed those lies and had crafted
an entire persona, identity, and worldview based
on lies, falsehoods, and conspiracy theories.
So it's what made it so scary. But it got to
a point where there was one lie, one betrayal,
too many. And in the summer of 2022, I just...
I could not look the other way anymore. I had
reached my red line. And when I reached this
line of demarcation, I didn't cross it. I said,
you know what, I can't stay in this movement
anymore. It does not comport with my values.
And, you know, it seems like that is a similar
experience for you, that you came to where you
just, you reach a point where you cannot support
the president anymore. You cannot be an advocate
anymore for MAGA policies. And that was how it
was for me. And I'm coming up to what I call
my leaving MAGAversary because I left on August
30th, 2022. So it's going to be four years for
me in August. And I look back on it. And the
fact is, Bailey, there's not a singular second
that I've ever thought that I made the wrong
decision. No regrets for me. Yeah, I'm very similar
to you. As you know, you reached that line and
you were just like, I can't do it anymore. But
for me, the time between me leaving, like when
I knew I had left and I was done with it, to
the time that I became like, I realized I was
a democratic socialist. I had deconstructed alone.
Leaving MAGA is the first step of the deconstruction.
Now, maybe some deconstruction was happening
before that that led us to leave, but there's
a lot of deprogramming that has to happen. Unfortunately,
I voted for Donald Trump in 2020. Now, I don't
make excuses for that, but people ask me why.
my thought process at that time although i had
left maga i hated donald trump i i did not want
to vote for him but democrats were still bad
because i was a libertarian at the time um and
this is still a thing today a lot of libertarians
don't like people on the left um i don't want
to speak for all libertarians but that is in
my experience something that i've heard and so
especially at that time you know democrats bad
um But I knew I had to vote. And so how I justified
it at that time was I was voting for the lesser
of two evils. That's that's flackable. Like what
was evil about Joe Biden? Nothing, literally
nothing. As far as if you're comparing, you know,
to Donald Trump, we can go into. leftist politics
but i don't want to dive into that uh if we're
gonna i don't want to criticize joe biden um
as part of this story but if i'm gonna vote and
and and pick out of the two options i have i
really pardon my french but fucked up and i chose
donald trump and i had regret over that even
though donald trump didn't get elected um i think
that the fact that he even had uh the opportunity
to to run again that he wasn't ran out of town
after the first time you know like i feel guilty
like i was a part of that you know like i i i
left maga why did you you know why bailey did
you do that and so um something i wanted to get
into when you asked me to to do this interview
um is The phenomenon that's happening now on
social media, specifically TikTok, you guys started
the leaving MAGA trend. And I've shared my story
with the leaving MAGA hashtag. But in the year
2026, there's a lot of prominent MAGA folk who
have laughed, have publicly stated that they're
no longer MAGA. And a lot of people who have,
you know, never voted for Donald Trump, always
been leftists of some sort are expecting these
people to change overnight. And the reason why,
you know, you and I are even having this discussion
is to showcase that deconstruction, true deconstruction
doesn't happen overnight. This has been years
long. journey for us. Um, now with the help of
the internet, uh, I have seen, uh, specific creators.
I'm going to call her out. She's a mutual mind
Carter. Um, she has like rocket speed deconstructed.
She has openly taken feedback and learned and,
and done the, her due diligence, um, to deconstruct
not only her religion, but her politics. Um,
But I don't want people to think that that is
the standard when it comes to leaving MAGA. Leaving
MAGA to me is the first step in deconstruction.
It's saying I'm done. I realized that I was duped.
I realized that I was wrong because you have
to go through that accountability and accept
some things that are going to be really hard
truths. And then you can work on deconstruction
and it doesn't always have to be religious deconstruction,
although I think that plays a big part for a
lot of people. But just even taking it day by
day and reading books, listening to voices that
you don't normally listen to, like that's what
I do with my platform is try to have genuine
conversation with people about deconstruction.
And that it looks different for everybody. No,
it is a process. For me, it took me an entire
year to make the decision to leave. And I think
that, so there's really two steps that I always
say about what it takes to leave MAGA and what
that actually means. The first is that it is
not enough to just distance oneself from the
president. Someone has to, in order to leave,
renounce the lies, falsehoods and conspiracy
theories of mega politics. And the second part
is to build up rather than tear down democracy.
And the way that we define that is by making
the continued case. that we as a people agree
more than we disagree. And I feel like both of
those have to happen and they need to be, and
they need to consistently occur in order for
one to leave MAGA and stay out of MAGA. Because
we don't, as an organization, we don't require
anyone to have to apologize, but we do encourage
it though. Because there's something really cathartic
about making a public apology and people see
that there's a genuine attempt to make amends.
Yeah. Because something, Bailey, that you and
I and all of our leaders in leaving MAGA, what
we embody and what we confirm is that it is possible
for someone to change their mind. And as we wrap
up here, something I want to ask you. To conclude
is, why do you feel the need to speak up? Why
is that important for you to keep making the
videos that you do, keep being the public advocate
that you are for leaving MAGA? How am I going
to get emotional on this one? Because I understand
the magnitude, the effect, the harm. that my
vote caused. And the least, the very least thing
that I can do is speak out and try to reach others.
Now, I have done other activism and advocacy
since I have left MAGA. I was a public education
advocate. until I got my cancer diagnosis and
then I stepped away. I've led a statewide group
here in Oklahoma advocating for public education,
advocated against Ryan Walters, if you know who
that guy is. Yes, superintendent of schools.
Yeah, he's, yeah. But... And again, Kyle, like
you said, I do it to show people that it's possible
and that it is happening. Like I had been on
TikTok for a little while before I started sharing
my story, but I was talking politics mostly.
And then I realized like I was good at it. I
was good at. you know, sharing stories and telling
my truth. And so I just decided one day to be
very vulnerable because it is a vulnerable thing.
People are really mean and rightfully so, rightfully
so, like I deserve all the mean comments I get.
And I just think that people, whether MAGA or
not, need to hear it because A, it gives hope.
B, it creates a space for those who are on the
fence. I have, I mean, it's not a lot, but I've
had several people come to me and tell me that
I helped them leave MAGA. And I didn't even talk
to them directly. They just watched my videos.
I mean, we need to meet those people. You need
to introduce them to us. Well, one was actually
somebody I know from high school and I didn't
even know they were MAGA. Like we didn't go to
the same school, but she actually commented on
my video the other day and said, you helped me
leave MAGA. Thank you for your videos. And I
was like, you know, and I don't do any of it
for clout. Like most of my videos don't go anywhere,
but. I'm still reaching people. And you know
what? That's the least I can do. So. Well, you
are making an incredibly positive impact. You
know, I want to thank you for everything that
you've done for being a proponent for leaving
MAGA. It does not go unnoticed. You are an invaluable
member of our community. You've shown great intrepidity
and courage in speaking out the way that you
do. So as we close here, tell us where everyone
can find you and follow you. I am on TikTok as
at Congenial Okie. I do have two profiles. One
is like 2 .0. I don't use that one very much.
That's my backup. But at Congenial Okie, my name
is Congenial Okie on there with a blue heart.
I'm not on Instagram or anything like that. So
just come find me on TikTok. Okay, well, I'm
sure people are going to come to you. And as
those who are having their doubts, what I want
to say on behalf of Bailey and myself is that
if you're seeing this and you're in MAG and you're
having doubts, we want you to know that you are
not alone, that we have been where you are, and
that we, as a leaving MAGA community, can provide
you the support needed in order to go through
the odyssey of making that decision to finally
walk away and leave MAGA. Bailey, it was really
great to see you. You know, you're always so
articulate in the way that you express your upbringing
and why you left and why you're doing what you're
doing. I just want to again give my thanks to
you on behalf of everyone at Leaving MAGA. We
were with Bailey Tyler from... State of Oklahoma,
Bailey, thank you again. It was good to see you.
Hey, everybody. If you like this video, make
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on my memoir, One Betrayal, Too Many, Why I Left
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