WEBVTT 00:00:03.239 --> 00:00:06.059 Hey everybody, Rich here at Leaving MAGA, leavingmaga 00:00:06.059 --> 00:00:08.880 .org. Just want to thank all of you for your 00:00:08.880 --> 00:00:12.619 support as always, and also for all of your engagement 00:00:12.619 --> 00:00:15.679 in watching our leader videos, conversations 00:00:15.679 --> 00:00:19.359 we have with people who are in our Leaving MAGA 00:00:19.359 --> 00:00:23.140 community. We are joined today by Brian Batts 00:00:23.140 --> 00:00:26.559 from the state of New Mexico. Brian, how you 00:00:26.559 --> 00:00:28.899 doing? It's good to see you. Good to see you 00:00:28.899 --> 00:00:30.940 as well. Good to talk to you again. Brian is 00:00:30.940 --> 00:00:33.619 one of our leaders here in our Leaving MAGA community. 00:00:33.859 --> 00:00:36.799 So let's just, Brian, get right into everything 00:00:36.799 --> 00:00:41.799 here. What was it about the MAGA movement and 00:00:41.799 --> 00:00:45.259 the Trump campaign that you found attractive 00:00:45.259 --> 00:00:49.539 in the very beginning? Yeah, I think at the very 00:00:49.539 --> 00:00:54.359 beginning, what was attracting... You know, I 00:00:54.359 --> 00:00:58.859 was coming off the heels of the financial crisis 00:00:58.859 --> 00:01:03.719 and it felt to me as if a lot of people that 00:01:03.719 --> 00:01:06.019 had caused the problems around the financial 00:01:06.019 --> 00:01:10.200 crisis were not facing any consequences. And 00:01:10.200 --> 00:01:15.120 that made me upset and angry and pretty cynical, 00:01:15.260 --> 00:01:18.219 if I'm honest, that, you know, I'm watching a 00:01:18.219 --> 00:01:21.299 system that feels like, you know, the people 00:01:21.299 --> 00:01:25.670 that are responsible. are not having to face 00:01:25.670 --> 00:01:29.310 any of the consequences of their decisions. And 00:01:29.310 --> 00:01:31.769 it felt like maybe, you know, kind of a bull 00:01:31.769 --> 00:01:35.549 in a china shop might be what was needed. And 00:01:35.549 --> 00:01:39.430 I think too, I guess actually that's probably 00:01:39.430 --> 00:01:43.290 the main thrust of it, is just what felt to me 00:01:43.290 --> 00:01:46.810 like unfairness. And this felt like a way to 00:01:46.810 --> 00:01:51.510 kind of address that, to try to get some action 00:01:51.510 --> 00:01:54.849 taken. And the conversation was, how did we go 00:01:54.849 --> 00:01:58.810 from Obama to Trump? And I wrote a comment saying 00:01:58.810 --> 00:02:03.670 that I think one of the explanations for how 00:02:03.670 --> 00:02:08.430 we went from Obama to Trump was post -2008 financial 00:02:08.430 --> 00:02:13.569 crisis fallout. And I feel like there are other 00:02:13.569 --> 00:02:18.530 reasons as well. But for me... I was, just like 00:02:18.530 --> 00:02:20.930 you, I was attracted to the outsider status. 00:02:21.169 --> 00:02:25.169 I felt like Trump was somebody who had no, because 00:02:25.169 --> 00:02:27.849 he had no military government or political experience, 00:02:28.229 --> 00:02:30.710 that he was the right person for the job. And 00:02:30.710 --> 00:02:32.770 I thought the two parties were the same. And 00:02:32.770 --> 00:02:37.189 I felt like, let's just burn the whole system 00:02:37.189 --> 00:02:40.110 down and then start anew. And this guy who came 00:02:40.110 --> 00:02:43.080 on the scene. seemed like he was willing and 00:02:43.080 --> 00:02:46.879 able to do that and and so i i am very much relating 00:02:46.879 --> 00:02:50.900 to what you're saying because it was a lot of 00:02:50.900 --> 00:02:54.960 what informed my decision to support him work 00:02:54.960 --> 00:02:56.900 on the campaign and then just get deeper and 00:02:56.900 --> 00:03:00.060 deeper into the community yeah and i think if 00:03:00.060 --> 00:03:04.219 i can comment on that i think um i i've come 00:03:04.219 --> 00:03:07.639 to realize a couple of things um in hindsight 00:03:07.639 --> 00:03:15.719 uh that The idea of kind of burning the system 00:03:15.719 --> 00:03:20.719 down and starting afresh truly just ignores the 00:03:20.719 --> 00:03:23.479 massive amount of suffering that occurs if you 00:03:23.479 --> 00:03:25.900 were to do something like that. And that was 00:03:25.900 --> 00:03:27.860 one of the things that became more and more convicting 00:03:27.860 --> 00:03:31.460 to me is that I started to see, I'm like, oh, 00:03:31.620 --> 00:03:36.219 there's so many people that are impacted by him 00:03:36.219 --> 00:03:38.360 and the decisions that he's making and the steps 00:03:38.360 --> 00:03:42.280 that he's taking. Not in a good way. And while 00:03:42.280 --> 00:03:47.379 people want to cheer about America first, the 00:03:47.379 --> 00:03:51.520 problem is that it just completely ignores the 00:03:51.520 --> 00:03:55.460 plight of a lot of our fellow citizens. So we 00:03:55.460 --> 00:03:57.759 are in a commonwealth. We live in a commonwealth. 00:03:57.840 --> 00:04:00.120 And so the decisions that we make can either 00:04:00.120 --> 00:04:03.900 lead more towards the common good, the commonwealth, 00:04:04.120 --> 00:04:07.090 or they can detract from that. And the more I 00:04:07.090 --> 00:04:09.650 got in, the more I started to read and learn 00:04:09.650 --> 00:04:12.729 and talk and listen. And the more I realized 00:04:12.729 --> 00:04:17.569 that MAGA was the antithesis of that. It was, 00:04:17.629 --> 00:04:20.029 it's incredibly, it's an incredibly selfish movement. 00:04:21.389 --> 00:04:25.569 It's very focused on like underneath a lot of 00:04:25.569 --> 00:04:28.490 it. It's like, it's a, it's a bit of, you know, 00:04:28.509 --> 00:04:30.350 there's a lot of like revenge in there. There's 00:04:30.350 --> 00:04:36.189 a lot of misplaced insecurity. uh because there 00:04:36.189 --> 00:04:39.110 are now all these you know people and things 00:04:39.110 --> 00:04:40.769 that are being propped up and say well that's 00:04:40.769 --> 00:04:42.129 what you should be insecure about that's what 00:04:42.129 --> 00:04:44.250 you should be scared about when that's not actually 00:04:44.250 --> 00:04:47.529 the case at all and so it felt really misguided 00:04:47.529 --> 00:04:50.990 and a lot of people were getting trampled in 00:04:50.990 --> 00:04:52.589 the process are getting trampled in the process 00:04:52.589 --> 00:04:57.769 so what what was life for you brian like trump 00:04:57.769 --> 00:05:01.589 wins in 2016 You know, we're vindicated, we're 00:05:01.589 --> 00:05:04.889 validated, we have taken on the world, we were 00:05:04.889 --> 00:05:06.910 successful and victorious against the world. 00:05:07.009 --> 00:05:12.269 What was being in MAGA like for you in your life 00:05:12.269 --> 00:05:14.829 at the time? Yeah, I mean, at the time I was 00:05:14.829 --> 00:05:19.250 up north. And so I was called like a red dot 00:05:19.250 --> 00:05:24.290 in a blue ocean. So it was a little bit isolating. 00:05:24.370 --> 00:05:26.629 But, you know, I think when you're in that mindset, 00:05:26.790 --> 00:05:28.550 you're like, well, I'm standing up for what's 00:05:28.550 --> 00:05:32.350 right. If people are against me, that's actually 00:05:32.350 --> 00:05:33.949 a sign that I'm going in the right direction. 00:05:35.149 --> 00:05:40.350 But I was in New York City for almost this whole 00:05:40.350 --> 00:05:46.029 time. And it was trying to make sense of things 00:05:46.029 --> 00:05:51.589 like how upset New Yorkers were at him. I just 00:05:51.589 --> 00:05:54.790 didn't have any knowledge of his history. And 00:05:54.790 --> 00:05:57.250 now that I know better, because I didn't grow 00:05:57.250 --> 00:06:01.819 up in New York. I now understand why New Yorkers 00:06:01.819 --> 00:06:04.220 just don't like him, generally speaking. And 00:06:04.220 --> 00:06:08.040 so, you know, in my mind, I was doing a lot of 00:06:08.040 --> 00:06:13.139 rationalization and trying to make sense of things 00:06:13.139 --> 00:06:18.899 to have it fit with my own narrative. And it's 00:06:18.899 --> 00:06:22.180 very easy, you know, at the time, my media sources 00:06:22.180 --> 00:06:27.860 were at best really skewed and not... didn't 00:06:27.860 --> 00:06:29.339 really have a whole lot of journalistic integrity 00:06:29.339 --> 00:06:33.779 i'll put it that way um so i was neat i was well 00:06:33.779 --> 00:06:36.000 not even knee deep neck deep in a lot of that 00:06:36.000 --> 00:06:38.220 and it and honestly it just i was walking around 00:06:38.220 --> 00:06:40.060 with a lot of cognitive dissonance where i was 00:06:40.060 --> 00:06:44.980 like holding two completely additional views 00:06:44.980 --> 00:06:50.660 at the exact same time and kind of didn't know 00:06:50.660 --> 00:06:53.959 how to think critically to resolve those and 00:06:53.959 --> 00:06:57.199 somehow felt okay to just not resolve them And 00:06:57.199 --> 00:07:03.500 just go on that way. Yeah. So I was, let's see, 00:07:03.519 --> 00:07:09.279 there's probably, probably three big ones. I 00:07:09.279 --> 00:07:12.680 wasn't really a big, I wasn't a much of a Fox 00:07:12.680 --> 00:07:18.259 news consumer, but getting into independent media. 00:07:20.240 --> 00:07:21.839 With the idea of being that it's kind of like 00:07:21.839 --> 00:07:24.079 outside the establishment, like that they're 00:07:24.079 --> 00:07:25.920 going to have the truth, like they're going to 00:07:25.920 --> 00:07:29.980 speak truthfully. It can be really, you know, 00:07:29.980 --> 00:07:33.699 it can it can be it can create a silo. But the 00:07:33.699 --> 00:07:37.100 probably the three that come to mind, the Daily 00:07:37.100 --> 00:07:44.279 Wire, a site called Zero Hedge and and then Breitbart, 00:07:44.339 --> 00:07:48.040 probably in that order. You know, Zero Hedge 00:07:48.040 --> 00:07:55.589 actually started off. with a decent view into 00:07:55.589 --> 00:08:01.930 the insides of Wall Street. And it was somewhat 00:08:01.930 --> 00:08:04.050 legitimate. And then somewhere along the way, 00:08:04.110 --> 00:08:07.389 I couldn't pinpoint what it was, it really turned. 00:08:07.810 --> 00:08:13.670 And it was a bit of a propaganda machine. It 00:08:13.670 --> 00:08:17.050 was instilling... a lot of cynicism and fear. 00:08:17.430 --> 00:08:19.589 And then you, you know, you go, I went through 00:08:19.589 --> 00:08:22.290 that long enough and I was like, you know, a 00:08:22.290 --> 00:08:23.750 lot of the things that I'm reading here, like 00:08:23.750 --> 00:08:26.829 they're just not, whatever they're kind of saying 00:08:26.829 --> 00:08:29.730 is going to happen is not happening. And that 00:08:29.730 --> 00:08:32.009 started to create a bit of a gap where I could 00:08:32.009 --> 00:08:35.909 say, should I, is, is this, is this, is this 00:08:35.909 --> 00:08:38.889 it? Is this right? Is this, are they actually 00:08:38.889 --> 00:08:41.750 giving me the information that I would need to 00:08:41.750 --> 00:08:44.309 be able to make a solid assessment of something? 00:08:45.399 --> 00:08:50.220 And it was something that created drama and created 00:08:50.220 --> 00:08:56.120 a sense of, I don't know, like, yes, there's 00:08:56.120 --> 00:09:01.320 a cabal that's running things. And nothing came 00:09:01.320 --> 00:09:03.100 of it. And I think it's because most of it was 00:09:03.100 --> 00:09:05.480 just a bunch of garbage. And there were some 00:09:05.480 --> 00:09:10.309 others. And I felt at the time that... I was 00:09:10.309 --> 00:09:13.450 on the right side of history in that all the 00:09:13.450 --> 00:09:17.409 media that I consumed was media that was telling 00:09:17.409 --> 00:09:21.110 the truth. Any media that was not MAGA media, 00:09:21.269 --> 00:09:24.389 we considered to be democratic propaganda. And 00:09:24.389 --> 00:09:29.690 I remember distinctly saying in my podcast and 00:09:29.690 --> 00:09:34.269 in my writings that any media that was not pro 00:09:34.269 --> 00:09:37.610 -Trump and pro -MAGA was, to use a Steve Bannon 00:09:37.610 --> 00:09:41.889 term, the enemy media. Yeah. And it's one of 00:09:41.889 --> 00:09:45.690 the most damaging things about that is when you 00:09:45.690 --> 00:09:52.110 pit an alternative or the quote unquote other 00:09:52.110 --> 00:09:56.649 side as the enemy, it's a natural, I mean, not 00:09:56.649 --> 00:09:59.970 natural, but it is kind of like it's controlling. 00:10:00.149 --> 00:10:03.090 It's like, don't read them because they're wrong. 00:10:03.269 --> 00:10:06.710 And so it's like a high authoritarian, right? 00:10:06.750 --> 00:10:09.740 High control environment. Because it's like, 00:10:09.799 --> 00:10:11.440 well, I can't read that because like they're 00:10:11.440 --> 00:10:14.419 quote unquote on the wrong side, which creates 00:10:14.419 --> 00:10:18.220 this like very black and white polarized view 00:10:18.220 --> 00:10:21.179 of the world. And now that I'm a little older, 00:10:21.340 --> 00:10:25.159 that's not really how the world works. There 00:10:25.159 --> 00:10:28.720 is, you know, I think you can get to the truth 00:10:28.720 --> 00:10:31.539 of something, but there's a lot of gray along 00:10:31.539 --> 00:10:34.899 the way before you get there. Well, the black 00:10:34.899 --> 00:10:37.929 and white. is exactly what happens in maga right 00:10:37.929 --> 00:10:41.330 it's you know it's it's either pro -mega media 00:10:41.330 --> 00:10:44.090 or it's enemy media you know someone is either 00:10:44.090 --> 00:10:48.049 with us or they're against us um very little 00:10:48.049 --> 00:10:50.929 idea around you know because i think there's 00:10:50.929 --> 00:10:54.210 a there's a i don't know i don't know what to 00:10:54.210 --> 00:10:56.889 call it in terms of like who falls into this 00:10:56.889 --> 00:11:01.629 but there's a there's definitely a craving for 00:11:01.629 --> 00:11:06.919 surety If I can boil the world down into black 00:11:06.919 --> 00:11:11.940 and white, then I can feel more comfortable in 00:11:11.940 --> 00:11:18.179 a world that feels uncomfortable. And so it's 00:11:18.179 --> 00:11:23.220 very easy to cling to that and then want to be 00:11:23.220 --> 00:11:28.000 able to throw everything through a very straightforward 00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:30.799 lens and be like... good guys and bad guys cops 00:11:30.799 --> 00:11:33.360 and robbers and like honestly that that's like 00:11:33.360 --> 00:11:37.100 that's two -year -old thinking right that's that's 00:11:37.100 --> 00:11:39.259 we played cops and robbers when we were growing 00:11:39.259 --> 00:11:45.299 up right um and there's adult thinking that um 00:11:45.299 --> 00:11:48.100 is you know sometimes it makes you feel uncomfortable 00:11:48.100 --> 00:11:49.960 because you end up having to face truths about 00:11:49.960 --> 00:11:52.159 yourself that you're like kind of wish that wasn't 00:11:52.159 --> 00:11:55.360 there um i kind of wish i didn't have to share 00:11:55.360 --> 00:11:58.470 that down but um if i don't i'm just going to 00:11:58.470 --> 00:12:02.610 wind up with like more blinders um and you know 00:12:02.610 --> 00:12:06.389 more inability to see clearly that's a that's 00:12:06.389 --> 00:12:08.990 a perfect segue action to what i wanted to ask 00:12:08.990 --> 00:12:13.330 you next which is to take us through when some 00:12:13.330 --> 00:12:16.190 of the cracks form for you when some of the the 00:12:16.190 --> 00:12:19.070 doubts and the confusion commence take us take 00:12:19.070 --> 00:12:22.740 us into your life at the time you know what were 00:12:22.740 --> 00:12:24.779 you feeling what were some of the reasons that 00:12:24.779 --> 00:12:26.960 were making that were starting to make you second 00:12:26.960 --> 00:12:34.259 guess your support for maca um i think um part 00:12:34.259 --> 00:12:40.379 of it was the the what i mentioned earlier about 00:12:40.379 --> 00:12:44.899 the um the podesta emails that was that was a 00:12:44.899 --> 00:12:48.080 big one because that that that i think if i remember 00:12:48.080 --> 00:12:50.830 right like those came out just before the election 00:12:50.830 --> 00:12:59.070 in 2016. And then to see that nothing came of 00:12:59.070 --> 00:13:05.009 it, I felt kind of duped and I felt dumb for 00:13:05.009 --> 00:13:07.370 having fallen for it. So there was a degree of 00:13:07.370 --> 00:13:14.649 shame that went with that. I think I also have 00:13:14.649 --> 00:13:20.279 had a number of... bad uh bad church experiences 00:13:20.279 --> 00:13:28.460 where the church was being led by um kind of 00:13:28.460 --> 00:13:32.200 like high control authoritarian type person like 00:13:32.200 --> 00:13:34.559 almost like cult of personality and i was like 00:13:34.559 --> 00:13:36.679 this is starting to feel very very familiar to 00:13:36.679 --> 00:13:40.440 me that was a big um a big impact and then the 00:13:40.440 --> 00:13:42.379 other one was just like you know i've mentioned 00:13:42.379 --> 00:13:49.929 my friend um you know we He spent hours and hours 00:13:49.929 --> 00:13:54.629 with me, just frankly, in a way, kind of helping 00:13:54.629 --> 00:13:58.309 reparent me, helping me understand things that 00:13:58.309 --> 00:14:02.309 I didn't understand. And then I slowly started 00:14:02.309 --> 00:14:06.690 to kind of, like, I'll give you an example. I 00:14:06.690 --> 00:14:10.710 had, to whatever degree, race played into the 00:14:10.710 --> 00:14:13.529 birther movement, which I think is a lot, or 00:14:13.529 --> 00:14:18.830 any of the... um, antipathy towards Obama. Um, 00:14:19.110 --> 00:14:22.730 I didn't really understand that and that hold 00:14:22.730 --> 00:14:27.750 the dynamic and coming to learn that and understand 00:14:27.750 --> 00:14:32.549 it, um, you know, was very humbling. And, and 00:14:32.549 --> 00:14:34.269 as we started to talk through that, I started 00:14:34.269 --> 00:14:37.450 to understand race much better, um, in our country 00:14:37.450 --> 00:14:40.409 and its history and the impact that it has today. 00:14:40.909 --> 00:14:42.809 Yeah. Those are the, probably the, those are 00:14:42.809 --> 00:14:46.039 the top ones that kind of come to mind. And I 00:14:46.039 --> 00:14:48.840 think also, like, I just had to ask myself, well, 00:14:48.940 --> 00:14:52.360 I was asked by my friend, you know, like, more 00:14:52.360 --> 00:15:00.519 or less, like, do you want to focus on just yourself 00:15:00.519 --> 00:15:03.919 and your wife and your kids and your family and 00:15:03.919 --> 00:15:07.960 like your little bubble? Or are you part of like 00:15:07.960 --> 00:15:10.679 a country that we're kind of all in this together? 00:15:11.399 --> 00:15:14.679 um and um where where i would think about the 00:15:14.679 --> 00:15:20.120 impact of say like tax reform right like should 00:15:20.120 --> 00:15:22.620 i only look out for my own best interests when 00:15:22.620 --> 00:15:24.700 it comes to taxes or should i be thinking holistically 00:15:24.700 --> 00:15:27.700 it's like well you know if we do tax cuts for 00:15:27.700 --> 00:15:31.840 for the rich um that's not really gonna that's 00:15:31.840 --> 00:15:34.899 not gonna help people lower down um so being 00:15:34.899 --> 00:15:36.899 able to start to get some visibility and some 00:15:36.899 --> 00:15:38.740 distance to be like is that really who i want 00:15:38.740 --> 00:15:43.240 to be um started to change things as well and 00:15:43.240 --> 00:15:45.379 it sounds like you and i don't want to assume 00:15:45.379 --> 00:15:47.159 this but i want to ask you about this it sounds 00:15:47.159 --> 00:15:49.440 like you may have gone through a little bit of 00:15:49.440 --> 00:15:52.659 a religious deconstruction also yeah yeah for 00:15:52.659 --> 00:15:56.360 sure for sure and that's been a long uh it's 00:15:56.360 --> 00:15:58.639 been a good four -year journey at least for me 00:15:58.639 --> 00:16:01.659 as well and and i'm not saying that for those 00:16:01.659 --> 00:16:04.059 who are seeing this as it's not meant to be an 00:16:04.059 --> 00:16:07.490 anti -religion or anti -christian comment just 00:16:07.490 --> 00:16:09.649 like i know that's not what what you're saying 00:16:09.649 --> 00:16:14.090 but there is there does seem to be this oftentimes 00:16:14.090 --> 00:16:18.309 there's this inextricable link between religious 00:16:18.309 --> 00:16:22.149 radicalization and support for maga that you 00:16:22.149 --> 00:16:24.470 know that that it's present that it's there and 00:16:24.470 --> 00:16:27.389 it's it sounds like it was the case for you yeah 00:16:27.389 --> 00:16:30.070 for sure for sure and and there's a lot like 00:16:30.070 --> 00:16:32.830 to your point like there's a lot of different 00:16:32.830 --> 00:16:35.940 um aspects to that when you start to dig into 00:16:35.940 --> 00:16:40.539 it. I think one of the things that has become 00:16:40.539 --> 00:16:50.460 really helpful for me is to understand that I 00:16:50.460 --> 00:16:55.639 live, we all live in a particular culture at 00:16:55.639 --> 00:17:01.639 a particular time that informs everything. that 00:17:01.639 --> 00:17:05.240 informs the way that you you would say like christianity 00:17:05.240 --> 00:17:10.839 plays itself out in the us um once i started 00:17:10.839 --> 00:17:15.500 to call it like get get a little bit of above 00:17:15.500 --> 00:17:19.500 it all in a sense and be able to look down um 00:17:19.500 --> 00:17:24.940 i could see where my my beliefs had been formed 00:17:24.940 --> 00:17:32.099 um you know on this collection of things that 00:17:32.099 --> 00:17:38.900 were very american right um and and very um a 00:17:38.900 --> 00:17:43.400 particular i don't know vein of of american and 00:17:43.400 --> 00:17:45.599 christianity and how the two had gotten fused 00:17:45.599 --> 00:17:48.980 together um and i don't think we do i think it 00:17:48.980 --> 00:17:55.059 just became wrapped up in a lot of um a lot of 00:17:55.059 --> 00:17:59.329 kind of just gross um merging together of particular 00:17:59.329 --> 00:18:02.490 beliefs with you know like personal beliefs with 00:18:02.490 --> 00:18:08.069 politics and you know i just i give you so much 00:18:08.069 --> 00:18:13.130 credit for being able to take such a a long view 00:18:13.130 --> 00:18:16.869 and assess your beliefs and make that decision 00:18:16.869 --> 00:18:19.390 to leave what i wanted to ask you in closing 00:18:19.390 --> 00:18:26.059 is Why do you now, Brian, feel the need to speak 00:18:26.059 --> 00:18:30.480 out? What do you hope would be accomplished from 00:18:30.480 --> 00:18:33.019 speaking out the way that you're doing? The one 00:18:33.019 --> 00:18:37.619 that I hope to experience is that someone hears 00:18:37.619 --> 00:18:45.259 me that is still in MAGA and that it's just maybe 00:18:45.259 --> 00:18:46.779 the first, you know, it doesn't even have to 00:18:46.779 --> 00:18:48.240 be the first thing. It could be like a piece 00:18:48.240 --> 00:18:51.789 along the way that results in them. having the 00:18:51.789 --> 00:18:55.890 same type of you know realization and then deciding 00:18:55.890 --> 00:18:59.450 to go through this process right of kind of deconstructing 00:18:59.450 --> 00:19:01.109 a lot of things not just on the religious side 00:19:01.109 --> 00:19:03.190 but you know just the way that they view the 00:19:03.190 --> 00:19:05.990 world and and when i enter this is the one where 00:19:05.990 --> 00:19:08.190 i've had first -hand opportunity to speak to 00:19:08.190 --> 00:19:10.289 someone who's like they're you know they're separated 00:19:10.289 --> 00:19:12.970 from their their dad or their mom or their uncle 00:19:12.970 --> 00:19:18.009 or their brother um that they get a little bit 00:19:18.009 --> 00:19:21.039 of hope from it and they're like okay I didn't 00:19:21.039 --> 00:19:25.500 know that I hadn't met someone that had changed 00:19:25.500 --> 00:19:28.319 their mind. And now that I see that someone can, 00:19:28.440 --> 00:19:34.059 it gives me hope. All is not lost. And so that's 00:19:34.059 --> 00:19:36.319 been always really encouraging to me. And, you 00:19:36.319 --> 00:19:38.940 know, like I'm starting to kind of tear up sharing 00:19:38.940 --> 00:19:42.000 it now because it's a pretty powerful experience 00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:48.099 to be given the opportunity to play that role 00:19:48.099 --> 00:19:51.230 for somebody. Hey, everybody. If you like this 00:19:51.230 --> 00:19:53.410 video, make sure you drop a comment. Make sure 00:19:53.410 --> 00:19:56.089 you subscribe. And also be sure to visit us at 00:19:56.089 --> 00:19:59.170 leavingmaga .org. You can read more of our testimonials. 00:19:59.170 --> 00:20:01.329 You can contact us. You can subscribe to our 00:20:01.329 --> 00:20:04.109 newsletter. You can get information on our support 00:20:04.109 --> 00:20:06.269 groups that we hold every week for friends and 00:20:06.269 --> 00:20:09.210 relatives of those in MAGA. And you can get information 00:20:09.210 --> 00:20:12.029 on my memoir, One Betrayal, Too Many, Why I Left 00:20:12.029 --> 00:20:14.650 MAGA. And any questions that you have, you can 00:20:14.650 --> 00:20:17.430 feel free to bring them to our weekly live stream. 00:20:18.079 --> 00:20:20.420 which is at Wednesday, one o 'clock Eastern across 00:20:20.420 --> 00:20:22.900 all of our socials. As always, we appreciate 00:20:22.900 --> 00:20:24.779 you watching. Thanks for your support.