1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:14,480 All right. Welcome to the SwimIntel Spotlight. I am Jamie Bailey and today coach Brian Parisi, 2 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:21,000 head coach at the University of Akron is here. Coach Peresie has won 10 MAC championships 3 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:27,880 in 11 years. He snagged Akron's first ever MAC title right out of the gate in year one 4 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:35,280 and picked up nine MAC Coach of the Year awards. He's also coached six NCAA All-American Swimmers 5 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:40,160 coach. Thank you for being here. Hey, Jamie, thanks for having me. I'm excited to talk 6 00:00:40,160 --> 00:00:46,000 and you know, just love the website and you know, looking forward to sharing whatever 7 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:50,440 it is you'd like to know. Awesome. Thank you. Okay, so let's start with the Mid-American 8 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:56,480 Conference, the Mac. It's actually the second fastest mid-major conference in college. You 9 00:00:56,480 --> 00:01:02,480 know, right behind the Ivies, which by the way, the Ivies are faster than the Big 12. 10 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:08,160 So how did this happen? Like, what do you think turned the Mac into such a fast conference? 11 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:13,900 It's a great question. I mean, I think it starts at the top with great coaches and we've 12 00:01:13,900 --> 00:01:18,380 got a lot of great coaches in the conference right now and we have had a lot of great coaches 13 00:01:18,380 --> 00:01:22,560 that are no longer in the conference from when I first started to be a part of it. So 14 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:28,120 I think it's something that, you know, it's just kind of progressed over time is some 15 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:33,040 swimmers have gotten faster than other teams and other swimmers. They see, wow, okay, so, 16 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:36,520 you know, it's going to take a, you know, 53 and then a 52 or whatever it is in the 17 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:42,280 butterfly or backstroke or 51 to win. Okay, they're seeing those things start to happen 18 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:47,080 and then people start to believe that they're capable of doing that as well. So, you know, 19 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:51,640 there's been an evolution of, you know, a lot faster swimming, you know, over the past 20 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:57,280 10 years for sure. But I think that, you know, coaches play a big part of that. I think seeing 21 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:01,440 fast swimming plays a part of that. I think we've got great facilities. So we're, you 22 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:07,280 know, we rotate the facilities within the conference. So there's six teams that can 23 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:13,160 host and they're all great venues for fast swimming. So I think that that helps as well. 24 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:18,520 And then I think we're also we're not cutthroat with each other. You know, we try to help 25 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:23,640 each other out. We try to create a great atmosphere for student athletes, great atmosphere at 26 00:02:23,640 --> 00:02:28,800 the championships. And I think our commitment to that has also helped bring about better 27 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:33,520 performances. So there's a lot of little things I think that goes into it, but how the coaches 28 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:36,440 all work together, I think is a big part of it as well. 29 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:42,280 Yeah, it seems like it just keeps getting faster too. Do you find that when you're talking 30 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:47,780 to athletes and recruits that they're surprised when they see what it takes to make an a final 31 00:02:47,780 --> 00:02:49,120 at conference championships? 32 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:54,280 Yeah, I do. I think they are surprised sometimes. So that's why we like to pass that out and, 33 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:57,680 you know, ask them, you know, do you know, one, did you know that it was going to be 34 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:01,800 this fast? And two, you know, how do you feel about that? But a lot of times that's met 35 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:05,200 with excitement, like, okay, yeah, no, that gets me excited. That's what I want to be 36 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:11,600 a part of. So, you know, it's there's so many conferences as well. I think it's hard for 37 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:17,380 anyone as they're looking at, you know, trying to find a college one to remember what college 38 00:03:17,380 --> 00:03:21,160 conference what conference eats colleges in, but then also, you know, what it takes to 39 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:25,560 score or, you know, a lot of the numbers that go with it. There's just a lot of data and 40 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:29,440 a lot of information that they kind of have to figure out. So, you know, surprise, yes, 41 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:35,520 but I think it's also just part of the education process that we have to do as as college coaches. 42 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:40,680 So here's what's crazy to me. So you've got a smaller team than a lot of these these big 43 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:43,880 programs, especially, you know, the power for programs. You're working with what about 44 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:48,800 I think about 23 active swimmers this year, and you're gonna have about 17 of those, they're 45 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:52,160 going to go on and they're going to be on your conference championship team. So that 46 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:56,360 that doesn't really leave you a lot of room for error. So, you know, when you're talking 47 00:03:56,360 --> 00:04:01,640 to recruits, what do they need to show you before you give them an offer for, you know, 48 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:04,680 one of those precious few roster spots that you have available? 49 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:10,440 I mean, there's a lot of things that we look at. You know, one of them is, you know, there 50 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:15,880 is a certain level of ability, you know, times do they are important and where someone's 51 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:20,320 at, you know, and we're generally looking for someone that can score in the conference 52 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:24,560 right out of the gate. And that's because of the level of our program. But, you know, 53 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:28,960 that's one that, you know, is just numbers based, you know, once you kind of fit in that 54 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:33,360 criteria, we're looking for good people. relationships are real important part of our program. And 55 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:38,360 I think it's a really important part of our success and something that we've really cultivated 56 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:44,680 within the team and how we interact with each other, how we relate as you know, coaches 57 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:50,600 to student athletes, as student athletes to each other within their class, their housemates 58 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:56,320 with our divers, all of it, because when you have good relationships, then you can have 59 00:04:56,320 --> 00:05:00,400 great things happen in the pool, you don't have as many distractions, everybody's working, 60 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:04,160 you know, towards the same goal and everybody, they genuinely like each other and they want 61 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:10,640 to see, you know, others succeed. It becomes, you know, not so much about me, me, me, but 62 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:14,200 it becomes just as much about, you know, those that you're you're training with on a daily 63 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:18,920 basis and nobody wants to go and, you know, get up on the podium and win and have none 64 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:22,840 of their cheer, you know, their teammates cheering for them. So, you know, that's something 65 00:05:22,840 --> 00:05:26,720 that, you know, we try to get out throughout the recruiting process is just if you know, 66 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:30,240 how they're going to fit with with the coaches and how they're going to fit with the team. 67 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:35,160 And that's something that's really important and something that we really focus on. Another 68 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:39,080 thing is, you know, they have to be committed to the sport. You know, they've got to want 69 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:45,120 to be able to, you know, you know, work really, really hard. I think it's hard to know exactly 70 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:50,680 what you're getting yourself into when you you step foot on a college campus, because 71 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:56,880 we can talk and talk and talk once a week for however long talk on, you know, on a recruiting 72 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:00,080 visit, we're only going to be able to convey so much about what it's actually going to 73 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:04,120 be like. We really try to do our best. But in the end, there's always going to be some 74 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:09,360 things that, you know, well, oh, I didn't quite catch that or this or that. And it might 75 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:14,320 be harder. It might be, you know, better in some way. But you never know. So, you know, 76 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:18,520 having the good relationships and being able to trust the coaches, being able to trust 77 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:22,120 whoever it is coming in that, you know what, no matter what challenge we face, we're going 78 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:26,320 to be able to work through it. I think that that's something that is also really important 79 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:30,680 and a year round commitment, because that's just that's what our sport is. And that's 80 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:36,560 what, you know, was for, you know, club and high school, you know, everybody, for the 81 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:39,840 most part, is going to be swimming year round. Maybe they've got some other sports that they're 82 00:06:39,840 --> 00:06:44,840 doing, you know, with their with their high school, which is totally fine. We've had 83 00:06:44,840 --> 00:06:49,680 athletes that come in where they've been playing other sports as well. But being willing to 84 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:54,840 be able to take that step and commit year round is something that's really important, 85 00:06:54,840 --> 00:06:59,520 because that's where we make a lot of games, really in the spring and in the summer. 86 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:04,480 Yeah, you know, with with with a small team, you talked about relationships and making 87 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:10,440 sure that that everybody, you know, is going to fit together well as a team. Do you do 88 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:17,040 you look at official visits to really gauge how a recruit is going to fit in with the 89 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:21,520 team? Or how do you how do you try to figure out is this person going to be a good fit 90 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:28,080 for us or toxic on the team? I feel like I'm a pretty good judge of character, pretty much 91 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:33,800 right out the gate. I like to FaceTime as well. So we get to meet each other, you know, 92 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:38,820 from the get go. I think that that's something that's also important. So I don't know how 93 00:07:38,820 --> 00:07:44,240 to describe that feel. But, you know, just through conversations and how questions are 94 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:49,560 answered, you know, kind of get a feel of, you know, the how they're going to fit with 95 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:53,200 with our team and with our staff. So that's really kind of the way I don't know that there's 96 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:59,880 a real quantitative way to, you know, give an answer for that. It's just more more of 97 00:07:59,880 --> 00:08:05,440 a feel. And, you know, I feel like our culture also is is really good where, you know, when 98 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:09,880 someone comes into it, you know, there's, you know, you can go either direction, depending 99 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:14,440 on who you're surrounded with. But I also have a lot of faith in our team in terms of 100 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:19,160 who they are as people. And I know that when we have new people come into our program, 101 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:22,480 they're going to assimilate a certain way. And that's really important. I think once 102 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:26,720 you have that, it's really important to maintain that because it's something that can keep 103 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:30,760 your program being really successful for a long period of time. 104 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:38,120 Do you do you need to see a swimmer actually swim either in person or on video before you 105 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:43,080 pull the trigger on that offer? I always like to see them swim usually on a 106 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:51,560 video in person. It not so much. I don't really get too concerned about that. We haven't done 107 00:08:51,560 --> 00:08:55,840 a lot of that. You know, we see people maybe when we're out in the summer and stuff like 108 00:08:55,840 --> 00:09:00,840 that coaching our squad. But I do like to have an idea just of kind of what their strokes 109 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:05,920 look like and how they swim. I don't know that it, you know, I don't know that it makes 110 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:10,520 or breaks anything other than, you know, I know that, you know, we're really good at 111 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:15,800 starts and turns. I know that we can, you know, help someone extend underwater dolphin 112 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:20,520 kick if someone's got a great first 15 meters. I like to be able to see that, you know, and 113 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:25,920 I'll have my stopwatch out and I'll time that on a video or in person. And, you know, if 114 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:30,000 there's a lot of speed there, I know we can develop that on the back half as well. So 115 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:34,400 there's some things that you can see that I think are important. And, you know, those 116 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:40,120 can that can impact scholarship offers slightly one way or another. I like to be very objective 117 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:44,360 with our scholarship offers in terms of, you know, kind of where you fit in in the conference 118 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:49,800 needs of the team. You know, those are all really, really important things. And obviously, 119 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:54,220 you know, the faster you are, or perhaps the more points that you could score a conference 120 00:09:54,220 --> 00:10:00,440 meet or qualify for NCAA is going to equate to a larger scholarship offer. 121 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:06,820 So you mentioned scholarships and, you know, of course we have let's let's talk about pre 122 00:10:06,820 --> 00:10:10,260 Grant House settlement and all these changes. You know, we have our we have our scholarship 123 00:10:10,260 --> 00:10:15,580 limits set to us in swimming, right? The bigger teams, obviously, that gets sprouted spread 124 00:10:15,580 --> 00:10:20,840 out even further. So would you want a bigger team or do you think keeping it tight, you 125 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:25,560 know, like, you know, 20, 25 swimmers is where you thrive. You know, what's your what's your 126 00:10:25,560 --> 00:10:28,200 sweet spot for team size as a coach? 127 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:33,560 I think that would be it 20 to 25. I like having a little bit smaller group so I'm able 128 00:10:33,560 --> 00:10:39,040 to work with everybody. I think one of the keys to having success over a long period 129 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:48,120 of time is having consistent staff members or consistent coaches. The reality at Akron 130 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:55,120 is I'm the consistent piece. And my assistants are always going to get taken away by larger 131 00:10:55,120 --> 00:11:01,200 programs. And in part, that's because of how good our team does. I you know, I remember 132 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:05,600 Meg, she was here for for five years. She was my assistant the first when I first took 133 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:11,640 over. She was an alum, and she would would have stayed forever. But, you know, things 134 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:18,760 with her family ended up having a second child. And her husband is also a coach. Oh, you 135 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:24,520 know, now it's like, I see our, you know, assistant coaches, you know, there's other 136 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:30,660 programs that can offer a lot more money. So then a lot of times they get taken by them. 137 00:11:30,660 --> 00:11:34,680 So the consistency has been made. So I like having a smaller group because I do work with 138 00:11:34,680 --> 00:11:38,680 everybody and I do coach everybody where if you're part of a bigger program, especially 139 00:11:38,680 --> 00:11:44,320 say, a men's and women's team, and you've got say 60 swimmers on that team or 50 swimmers, 140 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:49,600 you know, there's gonna there definitely has to be a different setup in terms of, you know, 141 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:54,440 how the coaching staff is spread out. And you're more than likely going to see different 142 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:59,640 coaches that, you know, oversee one group verse what we're able to do here where I'm 143 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:03,720 able to really oversee everything. And then I have our coaches kind of, you know, bounce 144 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:09,760 around to different places. But I do I coach, I coach everybody. So I have my hands in every 145 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:12,160 aspect of the program. 146 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:17,520 So what's your what's your take on the transfer portal? Are you are you leaving spots open 147 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:23,960 for those potential superstars that are leaving the power for to jump in? Or do you do you 148 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:28,680 really prefer to build up your swimmers, you know, right out of high school, you know, 149 00:12:28,680 --> 00:12:31,720 and have them for those full four years of college? 150 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:39,240 I mean, I'd prefer to have the you know, build them up right out of right out of high school. 151 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:44,000 That would be my preference. But it doesn't always work out that way. It's been, you know, 152 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:49,960 as far as you know, our history with transfers, it wasn't until probably last year that we 153 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:55,120 really had a number of transfers that came in, because we actually had three that joined 154 00:12:55,120 --> 00:13:00,160 our program. One was post grad. So she was here for one year. And then the other two 155 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:06,080 were they, you know, coming in as a sophomore and then coming in as a junior. And it really 156 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:11,440 just depends on what spots we had. See, again, I'll go back to you know, it's hard for me 157 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:16,760 to keep assisting coaches, just because of the level of the program. And then, you know, 158 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:21,040 being able to make more money elsewhere. Sometimes there ends up being a lull in recruiting. 159 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:24,880 And I know I've missed out on a few people during coaching changes, because I just can't 160 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:30,000 do everything. And maybe that sounds like I'm making excuses to people listening out 161 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:35,400 there. But regardless, that's just that's just how it works. So but then the transfer 162 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:39,040 portal actually is something where we were able to, you know, find a few people that 163 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:44,520 have been great fits for our program and actually have done really, really well. So I think 164 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:49,300 that, you know, the transfer portal is it's just another aspect of being able to build 165 00:13:49,300 --> 00:13:55,880 your program. But I don't know that it's would be smart to just rely on the transfer portal. 166 00:13:55,880 --> 00:14:00,720 And with all the changes that are happening right now, you know, it'll be interesting, 167 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:05,640 I think, on the guy's side, just with the rumors, in terms of what, you know, one conference 168 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:08,680 might be doing with their roster limit, I mean, if they're reducing as much as they 169 00:14:08,680 --> 00:14:13,160 say they are, there's definitely going to be a big trickle down effect. Because I think 170 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:18,440 a lot of those gentlemen are going to be looking for new homes, but some might not. Who knows? 171 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:22,680 It's kind of hard to say. But right now, you know, it's just, you know, recruiting and 172 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:27,600 looking for people that fit our program really well, and they fill needs then and they're 173 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:30,680 available now. And you know, that's what we go with. 174 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:37,840 Yeah, the the rumors about the conference roster limits. We had coach Dorn caught on 175 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:43,800 and he talked about the big 10 being 30 for the for the men. The SEC, I don't think the 176 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:50,360 SEC is officially given their their number. They were floating 22. And I know some coaches 177 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:56,480 have mentioned that. It seems like you're going to be at a pretty big disadvantage. 178 00:14:56,480 --> 00:15:03,120 You know, 22 men versus 30. I guess if you have 22, you know, full scholarships to give 179 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:08,680 out, you can offset that a little bit. But do you do you think the the teams that have 180 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:14,120 the larger roster sizes are going to have have an advantage? You've been at that 23, 181 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:21,440 24, 25 mark for a while, thriving. What's your take on what's going to happen in those 182 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:26,080 Power Four conferences? In the Power Four conferences, it's probably 183 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:31,880 going to be a little bit different. And I think that you're going to see, you know, 184 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:38,440 the NIL money. Is that right? NIL, NIL, I always mix up the acronym there. And I think 185 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:43,080 that's going to play a bigger impact into where a lot of the talent goes. You know, 186 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:46,600 I think relays are going to be really important, especially if you're a smaller roster team. 187 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:52,320 But if you're able to, you know, have those hammers and be able to, you know, put out 188 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:57,000 great relays, because you're able to attract that talent. I mean, in the end, it's going 189 00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:01,960 to be who can attract the best talent. And if you have the best talent and you make that 190 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:08,760 talent better and you improve, then you know, you're going to do great. So, you know, maybe 191 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:14,240 having a higher roster number would help. But at the same time, how many teams, you 192 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:19,280 know, on the on the men's side are fielding a full roster at the NCAA championships? Right. 193 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:25,920 I mean, I don't think that there's very many, you know, just a couple, maybe one, you know, 194 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:31,760 I'm not 100% sure. So, you know, you're still just talking about 17 guys or 17 women. That 195 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:37,560 would be filling out those rosters. So I don't know that it's going to be the necessarily 196 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:40,240 the deaf things, but I think it's going to be really difficult for those coaches to make 197 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:47,000 decisions because, you know, you're really going to have to keep your numbers down. 198 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:52,960 There's a lot of fear, uncertainty and doubt with some of the athletes, you know, and the 199 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:57,760 parents and the families, you know, regarding these changes, you know, you hear in this 200 00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:02,440 anecdotal and I have to counter it. You know, they're like, oh, well, you know, mid majors 201 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:05,400 are they're just going to have they're going to they're just going to work the transfer 202 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:11,000 portal. You know, they're just not offering the scholarship that they were. And I mean, 203 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:15,720 I think we've seen maybe a little bit of that, but I don't see that as a trend from what 204 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:20,400 I'm seeing. Do you think that's a thing or mid majors going to start holding back for 205 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:23,920 transfers or do you think it's just more business as usual? 206 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:28,640 I think it's just business as usual, but I think that there's going to be some teams 207 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:35,240 that they have spots available for one reason or another. But I don't know that, you know, 208 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:40,640 that's a that's a strategy, certainly something that that we considered here. But, you know, 209 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:45,560 it's not anything that we've gone all in on. It's just more well. OK, so, you know, obviously, 210 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:51,120 when it comes to recruiting the the women we recruit, they're talking with other colleges 211 00:17:51,120 --> 00:17:55,200 and we're talking with other recruits. So we're going to hear no more than we hear yes. 212 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:59,680 But so you hear no, it's like, well, you know, well, there's always the transfer portal, 213 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:03,080 you know, and how things are going to play out. I really feel like that's more of the 214 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:08,960 mindset right now than anything else, because it's it's very uncertain and it's very unknown. 215 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:13,040 And you know, I think we would all prefer to to know what our team is going to look 216 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:17,800 like if we're able to do that. But, you know, in the end, if there's some opportunities 217 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:21,680 later and there's those roster spots, then, you know, I think that obviously teams are 218 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:28,280 going to take advantage of those. So about about half of your roster is actually international 219 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:33,600 swimmers. Is that part of the game plan or does it just kind of happen for you? And, 220 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:41,320 you know, and what what's the trickiest part about recruiting internationally? So I think 221 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:44,840 we're about a third. Well, maybe I mean, maybe we are half you. 222 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:49,560 Probably 40 percent. If we're going to get exactly 40. I know I've looked at it before 223 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:54,640 with like a third international, a third in state and a third out of state. And, you know, 224 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:58,480 it just kind of depends. And then also, if you include our divers in that that number 225 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:04,040 as well. But the you know, in terms of, you know, international, we're just looking for 226 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:09,680 great swimmers that want to come here and compete. So they could be from Ohio. They 227 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:19,760 could be from Hawaii. They could be from really wherever Spain, Europe, Chile. You know, we 228 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:24,920 it doesn't really matter to us where somebody is from. We're just looking for great swimmers 229 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:28,880 that that want to be here. And, you know, they want to be a part of what we're doing 230 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:36,280 and work with the coaches and work with the team. So I think it is neat for our domestic 231 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:41,840 swimmers, if you will, and divers that, you know, when they graduate, I see my social 232 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:45,960 media sometimes where they've gone on trips to visit their, you know, their friends from 233 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:51,360 Spain or from Poland or wherever. So, you know, there's a lot of cool places that a 234 00:19:51,360 --> 00:19:57,300 lot of our alumni have been able to visit because of who they got to know in our program. 235 00:19:57,300 --> 00:20:01,600 So I think that that level of diversity is really cool. And I think that it helps make 236 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:06,160 everybody better as well, which is I'm always trying to learn. So it doesn't matter really 237 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:11,800 what program somebody is coming from. I'm asking, you know, do you have an idea of what, 238 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:16,480 you know, why you've been as successful as you've been? You know, what is it that you 239 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:20,720 did in your program? What are your coaches do back home that, you know, you think is 240 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:25,120 really valuable? And sometimes I get some good answers, sometimes maybe not. But, you 241 00:20:25,120 --> 00:20:28,900 know, I want to try to pull that out of them because they've all reached a certain level 242 00:20:28,900 --> 00:20:33,760 for a reason. And, you know, if there's something that we can do differently, that's a little 243 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:38,440 bit better. I think that that's great. And the more diverse group of students you get 244 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:42,720 to work with, I think the more information you get. 245 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:49,040 So I've never made it a secret that I have a hate-hate relationship with LCM to SUI conversion. 246 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:53,920 I think it's just difficult and those calculators are all over the place. So when you're recruiting 247 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:59,840 internationally and you're looking at a swimmer who has predominantly been focused on long 248 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:04,560 course meters, do you, how do you evaluate how they'll do in a short course environment? 249 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:10,560 How do you, you know, are you trying to, you know, evaluate their walls and their long 250 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:14,560 course walls? Like, how do you make that judgment that what they've done on that in that long 251 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:18,760 course pool is going to translate to, you know, Mac championships? 252 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:23,920 Well, you know, it's funny, I've got a good example of that with someone who's on our 253 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:28,920 team right now because she was a really good long course swimmer. And I'd say her short 254 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:33,240 course yard times in quite a quake. And really it's just her, she was the fastest breast 255 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:37,440 stroker in the pool. And even the summer, you know, before she came here, I'm watching 256 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:41,960 her swim at sectionals and race against some of our team members. She dives in, she's like 257 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:47,680 a body length behind everybody after the pullout, but she just motors up past everybody. And 258 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:51,320 then on the turn, she's another body length behind everybody. But then, you know, and 259 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:56,200 I'm just, and I made the mistake actually a few years ago of watching a breaststroker 260 00:21:56,200 --> 00:22:01,720 at the Ohio high school state championships, who was the fastest breaststroker, but was 261 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:07,600 not good at pullouts and was not good at her walls. And boy, did I make a mistake because 262 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:14,840 she's a NCAA qualifier in the 102 and a breaststroke at, at a different university. And, you know, 263 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:18,720 we also had a lot of breaststrokers at the time. And if she's listening, she knows who 264 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:24,900 she is because I love the family. But, you know, she, we had a lot of breaststrokers 265 00:22:24,900 --> 00:22:28,840 and it was just really hard. But anyway, so there's a lot of factors that go into it, 266 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:33,720 but again, I like to be able to see, see how they, they compete. Some countries, they don't 267 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:38,640 really, they focus more on long course and have very limited short course meters. So 268 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,640 that, you know, that might be the only thing that you're, you're able to kind of, kind 269 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:47,220 of look at. But I think that just kind of being able to see how they swim can help. 270 00:22:47,220 --> 00:22:52,840 But also I know we, you know, we do a great job of developing swimmers and all the strokes. 271 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:58,520 So I have a feeling that we're going to be able to help them be faster. It sometimes 272 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:02,320 just might take a year for them to adjust to the training or, or something along those 273 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:05,920 lines. And then other times they, you know, they, they start crushing it right out of 274 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:10,960 the gates, but, but back to, oh, back to the swimmer that I saw this summer. So she's here 275 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:16,880 now and she just lit it up. I mean, we, we started, we've been working on her turns and 276 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:22,680 her pullouts and her pullouts can still get better. I think we finally, finally got the, 277 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:27,400 the turn, the one aspect of her turn to be better. And you know, she's going to keep 278 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:31,680 getting faster from that, but she had tremendous drop short course already. And we're only 279 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:32,680 halfway through the season. 280 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:37,200 Yeah. I say it all the time to the, to the athletes, you know, you know, when you're 281 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:42,000 going through the recruiting process, coaches are looking for potential, not perfection. 282 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:46,600 And, and I'm sure when you saw her turns weren't great, it wasn't disappointing at all. You're 283 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:51,160 probably looking at that as a massive opportunity for, you know, huge progression. 284 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:56,080 Yeah, absolutely. Because I think we've cracked the code in terms of like figuring out how 285 00:23:56,080 --> 00:24:00,320 to, you know, correct some of those things on terms, which a lot of times is a push off 286 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:07,240 is a big part or how you set it up. So, and, and the team knows those things. So they're 287 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:11,600 extensions of the coaching staff and you know, they're underwater and they see everybody 288 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:15,360 and they, they're able to help each other. And we've got a lot of little, little coaches 289 00:24:15,360 --> 00:24:17,760 on the team as well that, that help people get better too. 290 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:21,720 So, you know, you're, you're going through and you're looking at all these recruits and, 291 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:25,680 and I know you have tons that want to swim for you. Does it drive you nuts when you see 292 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:29,880 somebody you passed on thrive? Do you, do you, do you have to have a short memory? Do 293 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:33,160 you not pay attention? Like how do you, you mentioned, you know, you mentioned the one 294 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:39,640 that's NCAA qualifier. How do you, how do you process that when you miss on a recruit? 295 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:45,600 It haunts me the rest of my career. I, there's a list of names going through my head right 296 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:49,840 now. Some that I've gone to other schools in the conference as well, where, you know, 297 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:55,960 I had this, this feeling and, and, and I want to know like, you know, so it, you know, if 298 00:24:55,960 --> 00:25:00,720 we weren't able to make something work, you know, I want to follow. So I do because I'm 299 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:07,640 learning from that. So when I do see something similar in the future, you know, I'm more 300 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:14,800 apt to trust my instinct, but then also some of the data too, because I haven't dug into 301 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:20,360 your website too much because we're just getting started. But, you know, I, I know that some 302 00:25:20,360 --> 00:25:27,520 of the clubs where some of these recruits came from, they got a lot faster. I will have 303 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:31,800 better information moving forward because of that. And that's something that's going 304 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:35,600 to be helpful, but I have a list in the back of my head where it's like, okay, if somebody's 305 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:41,820 coming out of this, this X, Y, Z club, I know that more than likely there's a good chance 306 00:25:41,820 --> 00:25:47,040 that they are going to have some pretty significant drops and then just getting some other information 307 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:55,360 from them as well. You know, could also back that up. Yeah. You know, we, we, we talk about 308 00:25:55,360 --> 00:26:01,440 these, these powerhouse programs that are mid-majors and, and we, Akron always is at 309 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:05,040 the top of that list. We talk about Akron, we talk about Oakland, we talk about San Diego 310 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:11,160 state, we talk about some powerhouse D threes and D twos, like, you know, Emory and McKendree. 311 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:16,840 Do you think as you've gone through these, I think you're on your 12th season, right? 312 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:23,560 Is it getting easier? Is the word getting out that, you know, Akron produces so much 313 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:31,280 success, or is it, is it the same challenge every year getting those top end recruits? 314 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:38,600 You know, I don't, I don't think it ever gets easy. But I do think that, you know, our street 315 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:45,040 cred is a lot better now than it was 12 years ago. And I think that that's something that's 316 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:49,000 important. I think that, you know, in terms of getting easier, I think, yeah, I think 317 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:53,400 there's a lot of coaches out there that, you know, they, they like how we, the results 318 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:58,720 that they see our swimmers get. And I think that they're, it would be excited if, you 319 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:03,480 know, one of their swimmers came to our program and, you know, those are conversations that 320 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:11,440 we have on the road. I think the biggest challenge that's always there is, you know, the, you 321 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:16,240 know, the swimmer that, you know, is, is talking with mom and dad and, you know, maybe their 322 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:22,240 aunt and uncle, and, you know, they're, they're looking at, you know, Akron and maybe, you 323 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:28,840 know, Ohio State or, you know, Purdue or, you know, and then, you know, they, I asked 324 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:33,040 them the question, I say, so well, let's say you decided to come to Akron and you tell 325 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:37,440 your, your parents and, you know, your aunt and uncle that you're going to Akron, are 326 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:43,760 you worried that they might be like, oh, wow, that's great. I thought you might go to Ohio 327 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:51,440 State or, or, you know, Purdue or wherever, you know, and, and it's interesting the reaction 328 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:57,800 I get sometimes because, you know, sometimes I get, I get, yeah, I am worried about that. 329 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:03,400 And it's because the, you know, the, the, the brand of some universities that is just 330 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:08,120 so strong from, you know, Saturday morning, Saturday afternoon, college football games 331 00:28:08,120 --> 00:28:13,700 or basketball or, or whatever, you know, the, the situation is that that tends to be more 332 00:28:13,700 --> 00:28:19,040 the biggest challenge. And it's, you know, it's something that can be, I think I feel 333 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:23,480 for, you know, the, I feel for those recruits, especially if they want to go to, you know, 334 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:28,480 whatever school it is that isn't one of those powerhouse football or, you know, basketball 335 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:33,800 programs or whatever the case is, you know, they, they, I think feel a little bit of, 336 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:38,440 you know, insecurity about it just because of the mainstreamness of some of those programs. 337 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:46,080 Yeah. You know, I agree a million percent. And, and I think one of the, one of the positives 338 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:50,760 that can come out of some of these, these changes where these roster sizes are getting 339 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:55,520 smaller at the power four level is we have so many athletes that they're just so tunnel 340 00:28:55,520 --> 00:29:00,960 visioned to a power four team. They want to go to that team that they watch on Saturdays 341 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:07,040 on football. And, and even when we show them your path to making the travel team, your 342 00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:15,560 path to making the conference team is so much of a stretch. I think you will be happier 343 00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:20,320 here another place. And it's so hard to get them off of that. You know, it really think 344 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:23,760 it's about where, where are you going to be happy? Where are you going to thrive? And 345 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:26,580 a lot of times if you're going to, if you're going to slog your way through all the yardage 346 00:29:26,580 --> 00:29:33,240 through college, being able to go to conference, uh, when wear a ring, that's huge. And, and 347 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:38,240 I don't, I don't think people, a lot of the athletes really understand, you know, will 348 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:44,440 they be happy sitting on the bench, just cheering for four years? Sure. And it's not that maybe, 349 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:48,200 maybe they won't be, you know, maybe they work their, their selves up. Maybe they find 350 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:52,400 themselves in a position where they are contributing, you know, there's just, there's a lot of different 351 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:56,640 factors that go into a decision. But, you know, in terms of like, you know, the initial 352 00:29:56,640 --> 00:30:01,000 question, I think that's just one of the challenges that sometimes, you know, we have here, but 353 00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:06,640 uh, in the end, I think any college coach listening to this podcast, they can recognize 354 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:10,320 that you're going to hear no more than you hear. Yes. And, or you're not doing your job 355 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:16,160 right. So that's, that's how it works. But, uh, uh, but yeah, I think that, um, there's 356 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:22,920 a lot of value, um, to, you know, being able to be a contributor in a program. Um, I think 357 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:27,800 that that's where, you know, we, you know, I think that everybody in our program, they 358 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:32,620 contribute in one way or another, but I've had a few swimmers that I've coached that, 359 00:30:32,620 --> 00:30:37,440 you know, from the athletic side, you know, they had the skillset, they had the speed 360 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:41,920 on the underwater kicks. And I'm thinking of them right now, but they never believed 361 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:47,640 that they could crack their way in to be in a contributor in our butterfly group. And 362 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:52,280 I was, I remember having the conversations, just trying to build their confidence up because 363 00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:57,960 it's a daily grind of, you know, pushing yourself really hard to be able to, you know, break 364 00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:02,360 through. And I think that that's something that, um, you know, can be a challenge if 365 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:06,400 you find yourself where it's like, Oh, does it really matter? Like I'm not, you know, 366 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:11,000 I'm in the bee heat at a dual meter or, you know, whatever it is, like, you know, you 367 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:15,880 have to be, I think a really strong person to be able to, um, you know, keep pushing 368 00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:21,720 yourself really hard to be able to break through and earn that spot in the heat or on the conference 369 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:27,000 team. But absolutely. You know, I look back at, you know, when I made my college decision 370 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,040 and you know, I was one of the swimmers, I was like, I wanted to be at the bottom. I 371 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:34,560 wanted to work my way up. And, you know, I look back and I think, man, I wonder if things 372 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,360 would have been different if I would have thought about this a little bit differently, 373 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:42,240 um, because I do, I think they would not that I have any regret. I don't think anybody necessarily 374 00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:48,760 has any regret about, you know, the decision that they make. Um, we're all successful people. 375 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:53,240 You can be successful anywhere. Uh, but you know, I do wonder, you know, I didn't have 376 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:57,920 that approach. I just wanted, I was, I wanted to grind me. That's why I coached swimming 377 00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:03,080 now because it's a grind. It was just ingrained in who I was. But, uh, but yeah, I think that 378 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:08,920 there's, um, definitely value in finding a program where you're going to be able to contribute 379 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:13,000 at the conference level because that's what we focus on so much in our sport. 380 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:18,800 Yeah. You bring up a good point about, about grinding your way up. You know, a lot of people 381 00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:24,280 know this, but for those that don't, for a lot of post-graduate opportunities, medical 382 00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:31,200 school, dental school, pharmacy school, uh, being an NCAA athlete is, is huge. I mean, 383 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:37,520 it is absolutely huge because if you have the drive and determination to leave home, 384 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:43,040 go to a college where you're going to have, you know, rigorous academics, uh, deal with 385 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:50,880 a new social life and get up for two a days, you know, be the one up at 6 AM going to practice, 386 00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:56,560 swim that yardage and contribute at a high level. That looks so good on a resume, whether 387 00:32:56,560 --> 00:33:01,960 it's, it's graduate school or a job. And I've had so many resumes come across my desk from 388 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:07,800 NCAA athletes and I've loved them. And I remember interviewing one who told me he led the big 389 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:13,240 10. He was a, um, he was a lacrosse player and he said he led the big 10 in penalty minutes. 390 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:21,040 I love that. That's just such a good bullet point on a resume. So, no, that's, that's 391 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:24,920 what you're saying is very, very valuable. And, you know, I'm thinking of the students 392 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:29,440 that I've helped with their resumes and, um, you know, a lot of times you're sacrificing, 393 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:33,880 you know, maybe, maybe an internship, you know, maybe you're, you're sacrificing some 394 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:39,560 experience that other students might be able to get, but I've seen that that hasn't hurt 395 00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:43,640 the students that we've worked with, be able to go on. Now I've also seen some where they're 396 00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:47,840 able to work those things in, in terms of their internships or, um, you know, maybe 397 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:52,220 it's a job or something like that in the summer, but, um, I always encourage them to put the 398 00:33:52,220 --> 00:33:56,920 student athlete at the top of the resume, uh, and put the program and put their accomplishments, 399 00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:01,480 but also put the accomplishments of the program too, because it shows that you've been a part 400 00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:06,360 of a successful organization. And everyone that I've talked with on our team that's had 401 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:11,640 an interview, you know, they tell me, they ask a lot of questions about their experience 402 00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:16,320 on our swimming team and what that was like and what they've learned and they want to 403 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:20,480 know. So it's a really good talking point, but it also shows you that it shows them that 404 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:25,040 you've been a part of something that's been very, very successful. So, uh, absolutely. 405 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:29,880 Um, that's, that's important. Yep. All right. So I want to talk about your development. 406 00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:36,400 So, so even though you have won the Mac 10 out of the last 11 years, you consistently 407 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:43,800 come in second or third in terms of recruiting class rank across, you know, Mac teams. So 408 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:49,080 you win the Mac because your development has actually been one of the best of any team 409 00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:56,120 in the nation. So last year, your uppercat, your upperclassmen averaged a 3.2% time drop 410 00:34:56,120 --> 00:35:04,020 in their best events. And that's actually more than double the average drop for D1 females. 411 00:35:04,020 --> 00:35:09,720 What are you doing differently at Akron that other programs aren't figuring out? 412 00:35:09,720 --> 00:35:14,600 Well, I don't know what other programs aren't figuring out, but I can tell you what we've 413 00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:20,160 been doing at Akron. Um, you know, one, like I said, the relationship or the relationship 414 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:25,320 piece is really important, um, because then there's less distractions. Um, people work 415 00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:29,040 harder for each other. You're going towards a common goal and you actually care about 416 00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:33,200 the person that's next to you. I think that that's the foundation and something that can 417 00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:37,920 be overlooked or talked about real fast and moved on from, but it's actually like probably 418 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:42,200 the most important piece, a hundred percent, um, because that's going to drive everything 419 00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:45,400 else. It's going to drive your culture. It's going to drive the efforts people put in. 420 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:49,760 It's going to drive how, you know, people respond when they're, you know, at a low point 421 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:53,680 or when they're experiencing a lot of challenges, um, because they're going to have people that 422 00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:58,440 lift them up. They're going to respond differently than if, um, you don't have good relationships 423 00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:03,640 within that team. So that's, that's really, really important. Um, other things we've got, 424 00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:08,020 you know, we've got a lot of really cool toys. I think the way my mind works, um, you know, 425 00:36:08,020 --> 00:36:13,820 I want to try to find a way for things to, um, for, for people to get better that maybe 426 00:36:13,820 --> 00:36:18,280 they haven't heard before. Um, you know, if you're trying to have a high elbow, um, you 427 00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:22,120 know, this may be a good example of how my mind works. Um, you know, their coaches have 428 00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:25,880 been telling me to keep a high elbow their whole career. And so I, what am I going to 429 00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:28,560 do differently? Well, I'm going to have to talk about it differently. I'm going to have 430 00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:35,760 to show them, or, um, maybe it was 10 years ago in my garage, I made my own paddles that 431 00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:39,400 actually force your elbow to be higher. And they're, they're a little bit awkward. They're 432 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:43,600 not on the market. I don't have a patent for them. Um, I don't think I'd make much money, 433 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:48,040 but everyone on my team, they have a pair of them and they use them in their meat warm 434 00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:51,800 up for the most part. So I know that there's something that's good about it. And I think 435 00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:56,640 it activates things in the right way. Um, but I'm always trying to find ways to explain 436 00:36:56,640 --> 00:37:01,440 things a little bit differently. Um, something that's really going to help us moving forward, 437 00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:06,440 uh, is we finally got things figured out with our underwater camera system. Um, so we've 438 00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:12,360 got six underwater cameras and then two above water cameras that, um, that we recorded our, 439 00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:16,360 our invitation or we recorded every race we had. And that was from six different angles 440 00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:22,400 and instantly went to, um, the iPads that we had on the pool deck. And so when they 441 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:26,360 come back from a race, they could pick up one of the iPads and be able to watch underwater, 442 00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:29,680 be able to see, you know, Oh, I felt like I was a little long on that turn. And they're 443 00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:34,720 able to see that right away. And the speed of being able to see that and be able to make 444 00:37:34,720 --> 00:37:38,480 adjustments. I think that that is something that is huge. And it's something that then 445 00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:44,280 we're able to incorporate even better into our practices because, you know, we have all 446 00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:51,040 of that, that visual information, um, right away. And it's, and it's really high quality. 447 00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:55,460 And I joke, it's like, you know, the NFL players that you see on the sidelines with the surface 448 00:37:55,460 --> 00:37:59,420 tablets, when they come off the field, like that's, that's what we're doing right now. 449 00:37:59,420 --> 00:38:03,680 And that's really, really exciting. Um, but you know, other things too, that I think make 450 00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:09,000 a difference. We don't do a lot of dual meets. Um, you know, we actually will suit up, uh, 451 00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:13,720 once in October, once in November, once in December, once in January, and then, uh, February 452 00:38:13,720 --> 00:38:18,520 for the conference championships. And then in March for, uh, NCAAs and, um, the national 453 00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:23,760 invitational championship, uh, a while back, um, you know, I just kept thinking about the, 454 00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:27,720 whatever they were called the pro series meets the, whatever, whatever that those series 455 00:38:27,720 --> 00:38:32,280 are called now, um, and how the professional athletes, they would suit up once a month 456 00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:35,720 because they're going to these competitions. I'm like, well, why aren't we doing that? 457 00:38:35,720 --> 00:38:41,200 Um, and so like in October, we have a three session time final meet that we host, uh, 458 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:46,200 which is, we also do, uh, in January, we go to Notre Dame every year for their three session 459 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:51,800 time final meet. But, um, when you suit up like that, I prefer to do it in competition 460 00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:55,720 and not really in dual meets because dual meets, you're doing three or four events in 461 00:38:55,720 --> 00:39:02,040 a, you know, two, three hour time period. I don't think you get a lot of real relevant 462 00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:07,800 data from it. There's not really much to pull from it, but these, you know, invites, right? 463 00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:14,520 So you have a day and a half where we're able to like work together for a longer period 464 00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:19,120 of time than we are during a dual meet. And then when we have a prelim final in November 465 00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:24,960 and a prelim final in December, like we're actually working on racing and how we can 466 00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:31,320 be better for a longer period of time than if we just had dual meets or, you know, you 467 00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:38,000 know, data competition here, data competition there. I like suiting up because, um, it removes 468 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:43,160 the variables. Now I don't give them a new suit every time, which would be any, a different, 469 00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:47,800 you know, whole other variable, right? But in terms of, you know, they can wear old suits. 470 00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:52,560 So, you know, it is different than racing in practice suit or a dual meet suit. And 471 00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:59,700 so you're able to get more relevant feedback at the end of the season. If we didn't go 472 00:39:59,700 --> 00:40:07,280 faster than we did in October, November, December, well, then you can actually ask the questions. 473 00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:12,540 Well, what, what, what went wrong? What do we do different? Which could be training. 474 00:40:12,540 --> 00:40:18,440 It could be the pressure of the moment. It could be what's going on outside the pool. 475 00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:24,920 It could be nutrition. There's a lot of variables that go into it, but because we do it so often, 476 00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:30,360 um, we're able to, you know, get rid of the, the variable of regular suit and trying to 477 00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:36,460 figure out what that actually means for performance. Um, and you know, I know, you know, some folks, 478 00:40:36,460 --> 00:40:40,040 they might get a little worried about, you know, well, what if somebody swims really fast 479 00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:44,360 and then, you know, they, they, they're worried they can't swim that fast again or this or 480 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:50,360 that. Well, those are all teaching opportunities. That's what they are. So, you know, you're, 481 00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:53,720 you're looking at things differently than we did 20 years ago, where you just wait until 482 00:40:53,720 --> 00:40:58,320 people go fast at the end of the year. Now it's an educational opportunity. Okay. Well, 483 00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:03,240 we know the suits make a difference, but then also the moment makes a difference, you know, 484 00:41:03,240 --> 00:41:09,560 where we have someone on our team, uh, Grace Newford, who is Paralympian and she, she swam 485 00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:15,440 in Paris this summer, got a silver medal, right? So, you know, I think that there is 486 00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:20,800 that post Olympic lull that happens. And I just talking to her after one of her races 487 00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:23,680 in December, she's like, I don't know, you know, why wasn't a little bit faster? I'm 488 00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:27,840 like, well, I go, did you go to bed last night and wake up this morning the same way you 489 00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:34,040 did when you were in Paris? And she's like, no, you're right. And I'm like, so I go, I 490 00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:39,440 go that. So that also plays into it as well. So you, you know, it just gives the opportunity 491 00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:43,280 to be able to figure out that, okay, Hey, yeah, there is other things that go into it 492 00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:49,440 besides the suit. That doesn't change, but you have to be able to know if that's something 493 00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:51,760 you need to talk about. And one of the ways you should be able to do that is if you have 494 00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:56,360 better data and you, you know, you, you suit up more often. So, um, I think that that's 495 00:41:56,360 --> 00:42:01,400 something that really helps us. Um, and you know, when you swim fast early in season, 496 00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:05,520 that's great. Yeah. You might not get as big of a drop at the end of the year, but you 497 00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:10,480 know, you're, you know, that's managing, you know, expectations, the faster you get to, 498 00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:13,600 it's also going to be a lot harder to have big drops. So, you know, there's, there's 499 00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:19,240 just a lot that goes into it. So, so yeah. Um, and I would rather them swim fast early 500 00:42:19,240 --> 00:42:22,960 and then, Oh, maybe it doesn't go as well. And then we figure out why. So that doesn't 501 00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:27,080 happen again. And maybe that's on me. Maybe that's on them. I, you know, I don't know 502 00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:30,920 that there's a lot of things that go into it. So, um, I think that that's something 503 00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:34,600 that helps our improvement as well. Cause we're always curious and we're always trying 504 00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:39,880 to find ways and just how the team interacts with each other. And you know, somebody might 505 00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:43,840 come up to me and ask for help on a starter underwater kicks. And I'm like, go talk to 506 00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:48,720 Abby because she's going to help you better than I am. And then I'll ask Abby what she 507 00:42:48,720 --> 00:42:52,320 did. I'm like, yeah, that makes sense. You know, or they remember something I told them 508 00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:55,480 three years ago that helps someone else that I'd totally forgotten about. I'm like, yeah, 509 00:42:55,480 --> 00:43:01,880 that's great. Let's do it. So there's a little bit. So I really think that is a smart approach. 510 00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:09,680 I like the fact that you suit up often. I, I would not want to just be surprised at the 511 00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:14,640 end of the year about how somebody's going to swim to see them suit up and swim once 512 00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:20,200 a month. It seems like that, that is a good way to evaluate your in season progress and 513 00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:24,680 sort of dampen down those surprises at the end of the year. And the other thing, and 514 00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:29,040 I agree with you completely, you know, there's so much discussion around making dual meets 515 00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:34,480 more exciting, but your championship meets at the end of the season where it really counts, 516 00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:39,920 they're not in that same format. And so to swim more meets in that format, but also suited 517 00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:44,960 up, you probably don't, you probably have a really, really good idea how you're going 518 00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:52,400 to do at, at Mac championships before you ever arrive. And I think that's really smart. 519 00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:57,480 Thanks. Appreciate it. Yeah, you do. And then with what you see in practice also. So, you 520 00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:01,000 know, that, that can play into it as well. But yeah, I know that there's been a lot of 521 00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:04,600 talk about making dual meets more exciting and stuff. And, you know, maybe they just 522 00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:10,360 need to be more important or the format needs to be more important or more relevant, or, 523 00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:16,720 you know, like I, with the, the three session time final event, you know, we have five teams 524 00:44:16,720 --> 00:44:20,800 that are here, you know, men's and women's. So there's more people there by default because 525 00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:24,960 it's a little bit bigger of a competition. Not everybody suits up at that October meet, 526 00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:31,440 but still there's, you know, there's a really good turnout spectator wise. So, you know, 527 00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:35,840 when you, when you have this really good progression in your upperclassmen, one of the things that 528 00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:43,560 you've done is you've kept them motivated for years. Right. And I wonder, I wonder how 529 00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:49,920 you structure your season, how that contributes, because I've definitely seen the stress on 530 00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:57,000 athletes of having no taper meets, no suiting up until the end, getting the flu, having 531 00:44:57,000 --> 00:45:02,920 a bad taper. Like you said, just, just having an off cycle schedule, didn't get enough sleep 532 00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:06,800 and they do bad. And then they got to wait a whole nother year to figure it out. You've 533 00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:11,640 got a lot of checkpoints through the season to know, Hey, I'm what I'm the work I'm putting 534 00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:15,920 in it. It's, it's given me results. And I wonder how much that contributes to the fact 535 00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:20,800 that you've kept your athletes motivated through their whole career. 536 00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:26,600 Maybe, I don't know, but it, but it's, it's, it's good data to go back and look at, see 537 00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:32,560 where you were the year before, because everybody does it. I mean, even we, you know, swim awesome 538 00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:36,880 in February and March, and then we come to that October meet. And then I have a couple 539 00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:41,880 people that come in like, why am I swimming so slow? And I pull up what they, they did 540 00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:47,600 it last year in October and they're like, Oh, I was really slow then. I'm like, exactly. 541 00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:52,760 I'm like, so just relax. Like it's totally fine. You know, sure. Maybe they are, maybe 542 00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:57,520 they are faster or whatever, but I'm just saying like there's, there's, there is something 543 00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:02,200 to be said about that consistency. But then even if they swim different events and that 544 00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:06,680 changes the conversation too. Cause I've had some people that swim different events at 545 00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:10,680 our invite in December and you know, so then that changes the data a little bit, but then 546 00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:13,880 that also keeps it exciting for them. Cause there's somebody that actually swims, you 547 00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:17,960 know, a lot of different events. So they have some options, uh, in what they're going to 548 00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:21,560 compete at the end of the year. So, yeah. 549 00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:26,120 Let's talk, uh, tuition for a second because Akron's in a, in a really interesting position. 550 00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:29,920 So you know, the cost of college, it keeps going up. It's a lot of scary numbers when 551 00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:34,680 you see that cost of attendance, but Akron's actually one of the most affordable schools 552 00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:39,920 to attend in all of division one swimming in state or out of state. Do you, do you see 553 00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:44,000 that as an advantage? Do you use that as an advantage when you're recruiting? 554 00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:50,520 Um, I mean, I guess it's an advantage. Um, I don't know that I would, I use it in that 555 00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:57,920 regard, um, when it comes to recruiting. Cause I think in the end, um, you know, with anybody 556 00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:03,680 that's being recruited, I think it should, if finance finances are important because 557 00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:09,960 that's if it's not important for everybody. Um, some people, they can go wherever they 558 00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:15,040 want to go and pay whatever, because, um, that's their life situation. And that's great. 559 00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:19,280 Others that it can be different, but in the end, I think that, you know, it just matters 560 00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:25,760 what the, the bottom line is and what you're going to have to pay, um, at whatever school 561 00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:30,480 you're going to be at. And you know, it, I think it does help that, that we're affordable, 562 00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:35,280 but at the same time, you know, we have the same percentage of scholarships that every 563 00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:39,760 other school does. Uh, although I guess some of that's going to change here with the, the 564 00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:45,440 NCAA settlement and all that stuff that's coming, coming down the pipeline. But, um, 565 00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:50,040 but no, I think we are very fortunate and can make it very affordable, um, for those 566 00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:56,320 that decide to attend Akron, um, because, you know, it is very inexpensive to come to 567 00:47:56,320 --> 00:48:01,440 school here and provide a great education. And we also have great academic scholarships 568 00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:07,920 as well. Um, so we become, uh, very affordable, very affordable. Are you guys, uh, fully funded 569 00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:15,440 as a athletic program, at least the definition of fully funded? Yes. Yeah. We have 14, uh, 570 00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:21,120 full scholarships that we can offer. Um, so we are fully funded with the, that definition. 571 00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:26,480 Um, we will not have 30 full scholarships moving forward. At least I don't think so. Maybe my 572 00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:31,440 administration will surprise me. I have no idea, but you know, right now until all that gets 573 00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:37,280 settled, uh, you know, I don't put a whole lot of thought into worrying about, you know, what's 574 00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:41,360 going to happen. Um, I think that, you know, things are going to work out the way that, 575 00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:46,560 that they're supposed to work out. Um, and then we'll, we'll handle those situations when, 576 00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:51,360 when we get there. Okay. So, you know, we've talked about NIL, name, image, likeness. We, we mentioned 577 00:48:51,360 --> 00:49:00,000 the grand house, uh, versus NCAA settlement. Um, there's, there's so much fear around those changes 578 00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:04,720 and how they're going to affect college swimming at a specific college all the way to the macro 579 00:49:04,720 --> 00:49:09,520 level of the sport. Uh, how do you think this is going to shake out for, for your program? Do 580 00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:14,880 you think it's a good thing, bad thing, not really a much of a change? I don't think there's going to 581 00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:21,040 be too much of a change for, for Akron. Um, you know, I think power four, I think that that, 582 00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:28,160 that's going to be a significant change, uh, or has the greater, um, opportunity for that to change. 583 00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:34,560 But, uh, I think in the end, uh, they're just going to be, uh, it, you know, the, the same 584 00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:40,880 relatively speaking, uh, levels of talent that end up coming to Akron, uh, or other schools that are 585 00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:46,480 like us. And then our job is to help them improve. Um, you know, I don't think that we're going to 586 00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:53,920 have these massive NIL deals. Um, I couldn't even tell you if we have any right now, to be honest, 587 00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:58,480 I think I know our athletic department helps in some ways, but you know, it's not anything that 588 00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:03,600 I've really, uh, thought about. Uh, and I don't think that it's going to, uh, it's not, it's not 589 00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:08,000 going to change very much on our level. And that could be wrong. And if it does, then we'll have 590 00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:13,760 to adapt. But, uh, I think the, the trickle down is going to be about the same. And I think that, 591 00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:19,040 um, you know, those that want to compete are going to be able to, you know, compete and find places 592 00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:25,840 that they want to go to. And it's going to be about the same. So that's my thought too. I get 593 00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:31,600 asked this question a lot and, and I know so many of the headlines revolve around the very top end 594 00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:35,680 of swimming, you know, the power force and what they're doing and, and they're, they, they are 595 00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:41,440 greatly affected because of the, just the budgetary constraints that they have and roster size, uh, 596 00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:46,320 limitations that are trickling down. But my belief is that the bulk of swimming, this is the mid 597 00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:51,120 majors, this is the D twos and the D threes, you know, I don't think what happens at the top end 598 00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:56,720 is necessarily a reflection of what's going to happen across the board. I could be wrong. We've 599 00:50:56,720 --> 00:51:02,000 got to wait and see how it goes, but I don't, I don't have that same sort of like gloom and doom 600 00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:09,760 that so many people have with, uh, with these changes. Yeah, I don't either. And, and hopefully 601 00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:15,360 we're right, you know, until everything comes out, we won't really know. But I think that that's, 602 00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:20,240 you know, that that's also how I approach life. I'm, I don't really worry about things until I need 603 00:51:20,240 --> 00:51:26,720 to worry about them. I today has enough, enough challenges in it for me, uh, to be working on. So, 604 00:51:26,720 --> 00:51:31,520 you know, we'll, we'll tackle this one once they, they figured out in the courtroom and, um, and 605 00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:37,360 we'll go from there. Yep. Okay. Last question. So when you're not coaching swimming, what is the 606 00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:44,720 most fun sporting event to check out at Akron and Akron? Yes. I mean, our men's soccer program, 607 00:51:44,720 --> 00:51:50,000 they are awesome. So, you know, they, they actually just went into the big East because 608 00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:57,200 the Mac doesn't have soccer anymore, but, uh, we won a national championship in 2010 and Jared 609 00:51:57,200 --> 00:52:05,280 Embach, our coach, he's been to three final fours since I've been here. Um, so that's pretty 610 00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:10,640 exciting, you know, when you have a team of that level, a lot of their guys, they end up going on 611 00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:15,760 and playing professional soccer, uh, or you'll see them in the world cup. Uh, but there, there's a 612 00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:21,520 lot of really good athletes there and those, those matches are really exciting. Um, so I would say 613 00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:28,640 that, uh, men's soccer would be the most exciting at Akron. Nice. Well, coach, thank you so much for 614 00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:34,400 being on, uh, that, that was really fun. Uh, I cannot wait to see how you progress through the 615 00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:40,000 season. You've already started off huge, so it's going to be fun to see if you get, uh, what your 616 00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:45,520 11th Mac title. Uh, so keep that streak going. So thank you so much for being on. I really appreciate 617 00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:54,400 it. Thanks, Jamie. I appreciate being here too. Happy holidays. All right. You too. Thank you.