All right. Welcome to the SwimIntel Spotlight. I am Jamie Bailey and today coach Brian Parisi,
head coach at the University of Akron is here. Coach Peresie has won 10 MAC championships
in 11 years. He snagged Akron's first ever MAC title right out of the gate in year one
and picked up nine MAC Coach of the Year awards. He's also coached six NCAA All-American Swimmers
coach. Thank you for being here. Hey, Jamie, thanks for having me. I'm excited to talk
and you know, just love the website and you know, looking forward to sharing whatever
it is you'd like to know. Awesome. Thank you. Okay, so let's start with the Mid-American
Conference, the Mac. It's actually the second fastest mid-major conference in college. You
know, right behind the Ivies, which by the way, the Ivies are faster than the Big 12.
So how did this happen? Like, what do you think turned the Mac into such a fast conference?
It's a great question. I mean, I think it starts at the top with great coaches and we've
got a lot of great coaches in the conference right now and we have had a lot of great coaches
that are no longer in the conference from when I first started to be a part of it. So
I think it's something that, you know, it's just kind of progressed over time is some
swimmers have gotten faster than other teams and other swimmers. They see, wow, okay, so,
you know, it's going to take a, you know, 53 and then a 52 or whatever it is in the
butterfly or backstroke or 51 to win. Okay, they're seeing those things start to happen
and then people start to believe that they're capable of doing that as well. So, you know,
there's been an evolution of, you know, a lot faster swimming, you know, over the past
10 years for sure. But I think that, you know, coaches play a big part of that. I think seeing
fast swimming plays a part of that. I think we've got great facilities. So we're, you
know, we rotate the facilities within the conference. So there's six teams that can
host and they're all great venues for fast swimming. So I think that that helps as well.
And then I think we're also we're not cutthroat with each other. You know, we try to help
each other out. We try to create a great atmosphere for student athletes, great atmosphere at
the championships. And I think our commitment to that has also helped bring about better
performances. So there's a lot of little things I think that goes into it, but how the coaches
all work together, I think is a big part of it as well.
Yeah, it seems like it just keeps getting faster too. Do you find that when you're talking
to athletes and recruits that they're surprised when they see what it takes to make an a final
at conference championships?
Yeah, I do. I think they are surprised sometimes. So that's why we like to pass that out and,
you know, ask them, you know, do you know, one, did you know that it was going to be
this fast? And two, you know, how do you feel about that? But a lot of times that's met
with excitement, like, okay, yeah, no, that gets me excited. That's what I want to be
a part of. So, you know, it's there's so many conferences as well. I think it's hard for
anyone as they're looking at, you know, trying to find a college one to remember what college
conference what conference eats colleges in, but then also, you know, what it takes to
score or, you know, a lot of the numbers that go with it. There's just a lot of data and
a lot of information that they kind of have to figure out. So, you know, surprise, yes,
but I think it's also just part of the education process that we have to do as as college coaches.
So here's what's crazy to me. So you've got a smaller team than a lot of these these big
programs, especially, you know, the power for programs. You're working with what about
I think about 23 active swimmers this year, and you're gonna have about 17 of those, they're
going to go on and they're going to be on your conference championship team. So that
that doesn't really leave you a lot of room for error. So, you know, when you're talking
to recruits, what do they need to show you before you give them an offer for, you know,
one of those precious few roster spots that you have available?
I mean, there's a lot of things that we look at. You know, one of them is, you know, there
is a certain level of ability, you know, times do they are important and where someone's
at, you know, and we're generally looking for someone that can score in the conference
right out of the gate. And that's because of the level of our program. But, you know,
that's one that, you know, is just numbers based, you know, once you kind of fit in that
criteria, we're looking for good people. relationships are real important part of our program. And
I think it's a really important part of our success and something that we've really cultivated
within the team and how we interact with each other, how we relate as you know, coaches
to student athletes, as student athletes to each other within their class, their housemates
with our divers, all of it, because when you have good relationships, then you can have
great things happen in the pool, you don't have as many distractions, everybody's working,
you know, towards the same goal and everybody, they genuinely like each other and they want
to see, you know, others succeed. It becomes, you know, not so much about me, me, me, but
it becomes just as much about, you know, those that you're you're training with on a daily
basis and nobody wants to go and, you know, get up on the podium and win and have none
of their cheer, you know, their teammates cheering for them. So, you know, that's something
that, you know, we try to get out throughout the recruiting process is just if you know,
how they're going to fit with with the coaches and how they're going to fit with the team.
And that's something that's really important and something that we really focus on. Another
thing is, you know, they have to be committed to the sport. You know, they've got to want
to be able to, you know, you know, work really, really hard. I think it's hard to know exactly
what you're getting yourself into when you you step foot on a college campus, because
we can talk and talk and talk once a week for however long talk on, you know, on a recruiting
visit, we're only going to be able to convey so much about what it's actually going to
be like. We really try to do our best. But in the end, there's always going to be some
things that, you know, well, oh, I didn't quite catch that or this or that. And it might
be harder. It might be, you know, better in some way. But you never know. So, you know,
having the good relationships and being able to trust the coaches, being able to trust
whoever it is coming in that, you know what, no matter what challenge we face, we're going
to be able to work through it. I think that that's something that is also really important
and a year round commitment, because that's just that's what our sport is. And that's
what, you know, was for, you know, club and high school, you know, everybody, for the
most part, is going to be swimming year round. Maybe they've got some other sports that they're
doing, you know, with their with their high school, which is totally fine. We've had
athletes that come in where they've been playing other sports as well. But being willing to
be able to take that step and commit year round is something that's really important,
because that's where we make a lot of games, really in the spring and in the summer.
Yeah, you know, with with with a small team, you talked about relationships and making
sure that that everybody, you know, is going to fit together well as a team. Do you do
you look at official visits to really gauge how a recruit is going to fit in with the
team? Or how do you how do you try to figure out is this person going to be a good fit
for us or toxic on the team? I feel like I'm a pretty good judge of character, pretty much
right out the gate. I like to FaceTime as well. So we get to meet each other, you know,
from the get go. I think that that's something that's also important. So I don't know how
to describe that feel. But, you know, just through conversations and how questions are
answered, you know, kind of get a feel of, you know, the how they're going to fit with
with our team and with our staff. So that's really kind of the way I don't know that there's
a real quantitative way to, you know, give an answer for that. It's just more more of
a feel. And, you know, I feel like our culture also is is really good where, you know, when
someone comes into it, you know, there's, you know, you can go either direction, depending
on who you're surrounded with. But I also have a lot of faith in our team in terms of
who they are as people. And I know that when we have new people come into our program,
they're going to assimilate a certain way. And that's really important. I think once
you have that, it's really important to maintain that because it's something that can keep
your program being really successful for a long period of time.
Do you do you need to see a swimmer actually swim either in person or on video before you
pull the trigger on that offer? I always like to see them swim usually on a
video in person. It not so much. I don't really get too concerned about that. We haven't done
a lot of that. You know, we see people maybe when we're out in the summer and stuff like
that coaching our squad. But I do like to have an idea just of kind of what their strokes
look like and how they swim. I don't know that it, you know, I don't know that it makes
or breaks anything other than, you know, I know that, you know, we're really good at
starts and turns. I know that we can, you know, help someone extend underwater dolphin
kick if someone's got a great first 15 meters. I like to be able to see that, you know, and
I'll have my stopwatch out and I'll time that on a video or in person. And, you know, if
there's a lot of speed there, I know we can develop that on the back half as well. So
there's some things that you can see that I think are important. And, you know, those
can that can impact scholarship offers slightly one way or another. I like to be very objective
with our scholarship offers in terms of, you know, kind of where you fit in in the conference
needs of the team. You know, those are all really, really important things. And obviously,
you know, the faster you are, or perhaps the more points that you could score a conference
meet or qualify for NCAA is going to equate to a larger scholarship offer.
So you mentioned scholarships and, you know, of course we have let's let's talk about pre
Grant House settlement and all these changes. You know, we have our we have our scholarship
limits set to us in swimming, right? The bigger teams, obviously, that gets sprouted spread
out even further. So would you want a bigger team or do you think keeping it tight, you
know, like, you know, 20, 25 swimmers is where you thrive. You know, what's your what's your
sweet spot for team size as a coach?
I think that would be it 20 to 25. I like having a little bit smaller group so I'm able
to work with everybody. I think one of the keys to having success over a long period
of time is having consistent staff members or consistent coaches. The reality at Akron
is I'm the consistent piece. And my assistants are always going to get taken away by larger
programs. And in part, that's because of how good our team does. I you know, I remember
Meg, she was here for for five years. She was my assistant the first when I first took
over. She was an alum, and she would would have stayed forever. But, you know, things
with her family ended up having a second child. And her husband is also a coach. Oh, you
know, now it's like, I see our, you know, assistant coaches, you know, there's other
programs that can offer a lot more money. So then a lot of times they get taken by them.
So the consistency has been made. So I like having a smaller group because I do work with
everybody and I do coach everybody where if you're part of a bigger program, especially
say, a men's and women's team, and you've got say 60 swimmers on that team or 50 swimmers,
you know, there's gonna there definitely has to be a different setup in terms of, you know,
how the coaching staff is spread out. And you're more than likely going to see different
coaches that, you know, oversee one group verse what we're able to do here where I'm
able to really oversee everything. And then I have our coaches kind of, you know, bounce
around to different places. But I do I coach, I coach everybody. So I have my hands in every
aspect of the program.
So what's your what's your take on the transfer portal? Are you are you leaving spots open
for those potential superstars that are leaving the power for to jump in? Or do you do you
really prefer to build up your swimmers, you know, right out of high school, you know,
and have them for those full four years of college?
I mean, I'd prefer to have the you know, build them up right out of right out of high school.
That would be my preference. But it doesn't always work out that way. It's been, you know,
as far as you know, our history with transfers, it wasn't until probably last year that we
really had a number of transfers that came in, because we actually had three that joined
our program. One was post grad. So she was here for one year. And then the other two
were they, you know, coming in as a sophomore and then coming in as a junior. And it really
just depends on what spots we had. See, again, I'll go back to you know, it's hard for me
to keep assisting coaches, just because of the level of the program. And then, you know,
being able to make more money elsewhere. Sometimes there ends up being a lull in recruiting.
And I know I've missed out on a few people during coaching changes, because I just can't
do everything. And maybe that sounds like I'm making excuses to people listening out
there. But regardless, that's just that's just how it works. So but then the transfer
portal actually is something where we were able to, you know, find a few people that
have been great fits for our program and actually have done really, really well. So I think
that, you know, the transfer portal is it's just another aspect of being able to build
your program. But I don't know that it's would be smart to just rely on the transfer portal.
And with all the changes that are happening right now, you know, it'll be interesting,
I think, on the guy's side, just with the rumors, in terms of what, you know, one conference
might be doing with their roster limit, I mean, if they're reducing as much as they
say they are, there's definitely going to be a big trickle down effect. Because I think
a lot of those gentlemen are going to be looking for new homes, but some might not. Who knows?
It's kind of hard to say. But right now, you know, it's just, you know, recruiting and
looking for people that fit our program really well, and they fill needs then and they're
available now. And you know, that's what we go with.
Yeah, the the rumors about the conference roster limits. We had coach Dorn caught on
and he talked about the big 10 being 30 for the for the men. The SEC, I don't think the
SEC is officially given their their number. They were floating 22. And I know some coaches
have mentioned that. It seems like you're going to be at a pretty big disadvantage.
You know, 22 men versus 30. I guess if you have 22, you know, full scholarships to give
out, you can offset that a little bit. But do you do you think the the teams that have
the larger roster sizes are going to have have an advantage? You've been at that 23,
24, 25 mark for a while, thriving. What's your take on what's going to happen in those
Power Four conferences? In the Power Four conferences, it's probably
going to be a little bit different. And I think that you're going to see, you know,
the NIL money. Is that right? NIL, NIL, I always mix up the acronym there. And I think
that's going to play a bigger impact into where a lot of the talent goes. You know,
I think relays are going to be really important, especially if you're a smaller roster team.
But if you're able to, you know, have those hammers and be able to, you know, put out
great relays, because you're able to attract that talent. I mean, in the end, it's going
to be who can attract the best talent. And if you have the best talent and you make that
talent better and you improve, then you know, you're going to do great. So, you know, maybe
having a higher roster number would help. But at the same time, how many teams, you
know, on the on the men's side are fielding a full roster at the NCAA championships? Right.
I mean, I don't think that there's very many, you know, just a couple, maybe one, you know,
I'm not 100% sure. So, you know, you're still just talking about 17 guys or 17 women. That
would be filling out those rosters. So I don't know that it's going to be the necessarily
the deaf things, but I think it's going to be really difficult for those coaches to make
decisions because, you know, you're really going to have to keep your numbers down.
There's a lot of fear, uncertainty and doubt with some of the athletes, you know, and the
parents and the families, you know, regarding these changes, you know, you hear in this
anecdotal and I have to counter it. You know, they're like, oh, well, you know, mid majors
are they're just going to have they're going to they're just going to work the transfer
portal. You know, they're just not offering the scholarship that they were. And I mean,
I think we've seen maybe a little bit of that, but I don't see that as a trend from what
I'm seeing. Do you think that's a thing or mid majors going to start holding back for
transfers or do you think it's just more business as usual?
I think it's just business as usual, but I think that there's going to be some teams
that they have spots available for one reason or another. But I don't know that, you know,
that's a that's a strategy, certainly something that that we considered here. But, you know,
it's not anything that we've gone all in on. It's just more well. OK, so, you know, obviously,
when it comes to recruiting the the women we recruit, they're talking with other colleges
and we're talking with other recruits. So we're going to hear no more than we hear yes.
But so you hear no, it's like, well, you know, well, there's always the transfer portal,
you know, and how things are going to play out. I really feel like that's more of the
mindset right now than anything else, because it's it's very uncertain and it's very unknown.
And you know, I think we would all prefer to to know what our team is going to look
like if we're able to do that. But, you know, in the end, if there's some opportunities
later and there's those roster spots, then, you know, I think that obviously teams are
going to take advantage of those. So about about half of your roster is actually international
swimmers. Is that part of the game plan or does it just kind of happen for you? And,
you know, and what what's the trickiest part about recruiting internationally? So I think
we're about a third. Well, maybe I mean, maybe we are half you.
Probably 40 percent. If we're going to get exactly 40. I know I've looked at it before
with like a third international, a third in state and a third out of state. And, you know,
it just kind of depends. And then also, if you include our divers in that that number
as well. But the you know, in terms of, you know, international, we're just looking for
great swimmers that want to come here and compete. So they could be from Ohio. They
could be from Hawaii. They could be from really wherever Spain, Europe, Chile. You know, we
it doesn't really matter to us where somebody is from. We're just looking for great swimmers
that that want to be here. And, you know, they want to be a part of what we're doing
and work with the coaches and work with the team. So I think it is neat for our domestic
swimmers, if you will, and divers that, you know, when they graduate, I see my social
media sometimes where they've gone on trips to visit their, you know, their friends from
Spain or from Poland or wherever. So, you know, there's a lot of cool places that a
lot of our alumni have been able to visit because of who they got to know in our program.
So I think that that level of diversity is really cool. And I think that it helps make
everybody better as well, which is I'm always trying to learn. So it doesn't matter really
what program somebody is coming from. I'm asking, you know, do you have an idea of what,
you know, why you've been as successful as you've been? You know, what is it that you
did in your program? What are your coaches do back home that, you know, you think is
really valuable? And sometimes I get some good answers, sometimes maybe not. But, you
know, I want to try to pull that out of them because they've all reached a certain level
for a reason. And, you know, if there's something that we can do differently, that's a little
bit better. I think that that's great. And the more diverse group of students you get
to work with, I think the more information you get.
So I've never made it a secret that I have a hate-hate relationship with LCM to SUI conversion.
I think it's just difficult and those calculators are all over the place. So when you're recruiting
internationally and you're looking at a swimmer who has predominantly been focused on long
course meters, do you, how do you evaluate how they'll do in a short course environment?
How do you, you know, are you trying to, you know, evaluate their walls and their long
course walls? Like, how do you make that judgment that what they've done on that in that long
course pool is going to translate to, you know, Mac championships?
Well, you know, it's funny, I've got a good example of that with someone who's on our
team right now because she was a really good long course swimmer. And I'd say her short
course yard times in quite a quake. And really it's just her, she was the fastest breast
stroker in the pool. And even the summer, you know, before she came here, I'm watching
her swim at sectionals and race against some of our team members. She dives in, she's like
a body length behind everybody after the pullout, but she just motors up past everybody. And
then on the turn, she's another body length behind everybody. But then, you know, and
I'm just, and I made the mistake actually a few years ago of watching a breaststroker
at the Ohio high school state championships, who was the fastest breaststroker, but was
not good at pullouts and was not good at her walls. And boy, did I make a mistake because
she's a NCAA qualifier in the 102 and a breaststroke at, at a different university. And, you know,
we also had a lot of breaststrokers at the time. And if she's listening, she knows who
she is because I love the family. But, you know, she, we had a lot of breaststrokers
and it was just really hard. But anyway, so there's a lot of factors that go into it,
but again, I like to be able to see, see how they, they compete. Some countries, they don't
really, they focus more on long course and have very limited short course meters. So
that, you know, that might be the only thing that you're, you're able to kind of, kind
of look at. But I think that just kind of being able to see how they swim can help.
But also I know we, you know, we do a great job of developing swimmers and all the strokes.
So I have a feeling that we're going to be able to help them be faster. It sometimes
just might take a year for them to adjust to the training or, or something along those
lines. And then other times they, you know, they, they start crushing it right out of
the gates, but, but back to, oh, back to the swimmer that I saw this summer. So she's here
now and she just lit it up. I mean, we, we started, we've been working on her turns and
her pullouts and her pullouts can still get better. I think we finally, finally got the,
the turn, the one aspect of her turn to be better. And you know, she's going to keep
getting faster from that, but she had tremendous drop short course already. And we're only
halfway through the season.
Yeah. I say it all the time to the, to the athletes, you know, you know, when you're
going through the recruiting process, coaches are looking for potential, not perfection.
And, and I'm sure when you saw her turns weren't great, it wasn't disappointing at all. You're
probably looking at that as a massive opportunity for, you know, huge progression.
Yeah, absolutely. Because I think we've cracked the code in terms of like figuring out how
to, you know, correct some of those things on terms, which a lot of times is a push off
is a big part or how you set it up. So, and, and the team knows those things. So they're
extensions of the coaching staff and you know, they're underwater and they see everybody
and they, they're able to help each other. And we've got a lot of little, little coaches
on the team as well that, that help people get better too.
So, you know, you're, you're going through and you're looking at all these recruits and,
and I know you have tons that want to swim for you. Does it drive you nuts when you see
somebody you passed on thrive? Do you, do you, do you have to have a short memory? Do
you not pay attention? Like how do you, you mentioned, you know, you mentioned the one
that's NCAA qualifier. How do you, how do you process that when you miss on a recruit?
It haunts me the rest of my career. I, there's a list of names going through my head right
now. Some that I've gone to other schools in the conference as well, where, you know,
I had this, this feeling and, and, and I want to know like, you know, so it, you know, if
we weren't able to make something work, you know, I want to follow. So I do because I'm
learning from that. So when I do see something similar in the future, you know, I'm more
apt to trust my instinct, but then also some of the data too, because I haven't dug into
your website too much because we're just getting started. But, you know, I, I know that some
of the clubs where some of these recruits came from, they got a lot faster. I will have
better information moving forward because of that. And that's something that's going
to be helpful, but I have a list in the back of my head where it's like, okay, if somebody's
coming out of this, this X, Y, Z club, I know that more than likely there's a good chance
that they are going to have some pretty significant drops and then just getting some other information
from them as well. You know, could also back that up. Yeah. You know, we, we, we talk about
these, these powerhouse programs that are mid-majors and, and we, Akron always is at
the top of that list. We talk about Akron, we talk about Oakland, we talk about San Diego
state, we talk about some powerhouse D threes and D twos, like, you know, Emory and McKendree.
Do you think as you've gone through these, I think you're on your 12th season, right?
Is it getting easier? Is the word getting out that, you know, Akron produces so much
success, or is it, is it the same challenge every year getting those top end recruits?
You know, I don't, I don't think it ever gets easy. But I do think that, you know, our street
cred is a lot better now than it was 12 years ago. And I think that that's something that's
important. I think that, you know, in terms of getting easier, I think, yeah, I think
there's a lot of coaches out there that, you know, they, they like how we, the results
that they see our swimmers get. And I think that they're, it would be excited if, you
know, one of their swimmers came to our program and, you know, those are conversations that
we have on the road. I think the biggest challenge that's always there is, you know, the, you
know, the swimmer that, you know, is, is talking with mom and dad and, you know, maybe their
aunt and uncle, and, you know, they're, they're looking at, you know, Akron and maybe, you
know, Ohio State or, you know, Purdue or, you know, and then, you know, they, I asked
them the question, I say, so well, let's say you decided to come to Akron and you tell
your, your parents and, you know, your aunt and uncle that you're going to Akron, are
you worried that they might be like, oh, wow, that's great. I thought you might go to Ohio
State or, or, you know, Purdue or wherever, you know, and, and it's interesting the reaction
I get sometimes because, you know, sometimes I get, I get, yeah, I am worried about that.
And it's because the, you know, the, the, the brand of some universities that is just
so strong from, you know, Saturday morning, Saturday afternoon, college football games
or basketball or, or whatever, you know, the, the situation is that that tends to be more
the biggest challenge. And it's, you know, it's something that can be, I think I feel
for, you know, the, I feel for those recruits, especially if they want to go to, you know,
whatever school it is that isn't one of those powerhouse football or, you know, basketball
programs or whatever the case is, you know, they, they, I think feel a little bit of,
you know, insecurity about it just because of the mainstreamness of some of those programs.
Yeah. You know, I agree a million percent. And, and I think one of the, one of the positives
that can come out of some of these, these changes where these roster sizes are getting
smaller at the power four level is we have so many athletes that they're just so tunnel
visioned to a power four team. They want to go to that team that they watch on Saturdays
on football. And, and even when we show them your path to making the travel team, your
path to making the conference team is so much of a stretch. I think you will be happier
here another place. And it's so hard to get them off of that. You know, it really think
it's about where, where are you going to be happy? Where are you going to thrive? And
a lot of times if you're going to, if you're going to slog your way through all the yardage
through college, being able to go to conference, uh, when wear a ring, that's huge. And, and
I don't, I don't think people, a lot of the athletes really understand, you know, will
they be happy sitting on the bench, just cheering for four years? Sure. And it's not that maybe,
maybe they won't be, you know, maybe they work their, their selves up. Maybe they find
themselves in a position where they are contributing, you know, there's just, there's a lot of different
factors that go into a decision. But, you know, in terms of like, you know, the initial
question, I think that's just one of the challenges that sometimes, you know, we have here, but
uh, in the end, I think any college coach listening to this podcast, they can recognize
that you're going to hear no more than you hear. Yes. And, or you're not doing your job
right. So that's, that's how it works. But, uh, uh, but yeah, I think that, um, there's
a lot of value, um, to, you know, being able to be a contributor in a program. Um, I think
that that's where, you know, we, you know, I think that everybody in our program, they
contribute in one way or another, but I've had a few swimmers that I've coached that,
you know, from the athletic side, you know, they had the skillset, they had the speed
on the underwater kicks. And I'm thinking of them right now, but they never believed
that they could crack their way in to be in a contributor in our butterfly group. And
I was, I remember having the conversations, just trying to build their confidence up because
it's a daily grind of, you know, pushing yourself really hard to be able to, you know, break
through. And I think that that's something that, um, you know, can be a challenge if
you find yourself where it's like, Oh, does it really matter? Like I'm not, you know,
I'm in the bee heat at a dual meter or, you know, whatever it is, like, you know, you
have to be, I think a really strong person to be able to, um, you know, keep pushing
yourself really hard to be able to break through and earn that spot in the heat or on the conference
team. But absolutely. You know, I look back at, you know, when I made my college decision
and you know, I was one of the swimmers, I was like, I wanted to be at the bottom. I
wanted to work my way up. And, you know, I look back and I think, man, I wonder if things
would have been different if I would have thought about this a little bit differently,
um, because I do, I think they would not that I have any regret. I don't think anybody necessarily
has any regret about, you know, the decision that they make. Um, we're all successful people.
You can be successful anywhere. Uh, but you know, I do wonder, you know, I didn't have
that approach. I just wanted, I was, I wanted to grind me. That's why I coached swimming
now because it's a grind. It was just ingrained in who I was. But, uh, but yeah, I think that
there's, um, definitely value in finding a program where you're going to be able to contribute
at the conference level because that's what we focus on so much in our sport.
Yeah. You bring up a good point about, about grinding your way up. You know, a lot of people
know this, but for those that don't, for a lot of post-graduate opportunities, medical
school, dental school, pharmacy school, uh, being an NCAA athlete is, is huge. I mean,
it is absolutely huge because if you have the drive and determination to leave home,
go to a college where you're going to have, you know, rigorous academics, uh, deal with
a new social life and get up for two a days, you know, be the one up at 6 AM going to practice,
swim that yardage and contribute at a high level. That looks so good on a resume, whether
it's, it's graduate school or a job. And I've had so many resumes come across my desk from
NCAA athletes and I've loved them. And I remember interviewing one who told me he led the big
10. He was a, um, he was a lacrosse player and he said he led the big 10 in penalty minutes.
I love that. That's just such a good bullet point on a resume. So, no, that's, that's
what you're saying is very, very valuable. And, you know, I'm thinking of the students
that I've helped with their resumes and, um, you know, a lot of times you're sacrificing,
you know, maybe, maybe an internship, you know, maybe you're, you're sacrificing some
experience that other students might be able to get, but I've seen that that hasn't hurt
the students that we've worked with, be able to go on. Now I've also seen some where they're
able to work those things in, in terms of their internships or, um, you know, maybe
it's a job or something like that in the summer, but, um, I always encourage them to put the
student athlete at the top of the resume, uh, and put the program and put their accomplishments,
but also put the accomplishments of the program too, because it shows that you've been a part
of a successful organization. And everyone that I've talked with on our team that's had
an interview, you know, they tell me, they ask a lot of questions about their experience
on our swimming team and what that was like and what they've learned and they want to
know. So it's a really good talking point, but it also shows you that it shows them that
you've been a part of something that's been very, very successful. So, uh, absolutely.
Um, that's, that's important. Yep. All right. So I want to talk about your development.
So, so even though you have won the Mac 10 out of the last 11 years, you consistently
come in second or third in terms of recruiting class rank across, you know, Mac teams. So
you win the Mac because your development has actually been one of the best of any team
in the nation. So last year, your uppercat, your upperclassmen averaged a 3.2% time drop
in their best events. And that's actually more than double the average drop for D1 females.
What are you doing differently at Akron that other programs aren't figuring out?
Well, I don't know what other programs aren't figuring out, but I can tell you what we've
been doing at Akron. Um, you know, one, like I said, the relationship or the relationship
piece is really important, um, because then there's less distractions. Um, people work
harder for each other. You're going towards a common goal and you actually care about
the person that's next to you. I think that that's the foundation and something that can
be overlooked or talked about real fast and moved on from, but it's actually like probably
the most important piece, a hundred percent, um, because that's going to drive everything
else. It's going to drive your culture. It's going to drive the efforts people put in.
It's going to drive how, you know, people respond when they're, you know, at a low point
or when they're experiencing a lot of challenges, um, because they're going to have people that
lift them up. They're going to respond differently than if, um, you don't have good relationships
within that team. So that's, that's really, really important. Um, other things we've got,
you know, we've got a lot of really cool toys. I think the way my mind works, um, you know,
I want to try to find a way for things to, um, for, for people to get better that maybe
they haven't heard before. Um, you know, if you're trying to have a high elbow, um, you
know, this may be a good example of how my mind works. Um, you know, their coaches have
been telling me to keep a high elbow their whole career. And so I, what am I going to
do differently? Well, I'm going to have to talk about it differently. I'm going to have
to show them, or, um, maybe it was 10 years ago in my garage, I made my own paddles that
actually force your elbow to be higher. And they're, they're a little bit awkward. They're
not on the market. I don't have a patent for them. Um, I don't think I'd make much money,
but everyone on my team, they have a pair of them and they use them in their meat warm
up for the most part. So I know that there's something that's good about it. And I think
it activates things in the right way. Um, but I'm always trying to find ways to explain
things a little bit differently. Um, something that's really going to help us moving forward,
uh, is we finally got things figured out with our underwater camera system. Um, so we've
got six underwater cameras and then two above water cameras that, um, that we recorded our,
our invitation or we recorded every race we had. And that was from six different angles
and instantly went to, um, the iPads that we had on the pool deck. And so when they
come back from a race, they could pick up one of the iPads and be able to watch underwater,
be able to see, you know, Oh, I felt like I was a little long on that turn. And they're
able to see that right away. And the speed of being able to see that and be able to make
adjustments. I think that that is something that is huge. And it's something that then
we're able to incorporate even better into our practices because, you know, we have all
of that, that visual information, um, right away. And it's, and it's really high quality.
And I joke, it's like, you know, the NFL players that you see on the sidelines with the surface
tablets, when they come off the field, like that's, that's what we're doing right now.
And that's really, really exciting. Um, but you know, other things too, that I think make
a difference. We don't do a lot of dual meets. Um, you know, we actually will suit up, uh,
once in October, once in November, once in December, once in January, and then, uh, February
for the conference championships. And then in March for, uh, NCAAs and, um, the national
invitational championship, uh, a while back, um, you know, I just kept thinking about the,
whatever they were called the pro series meets the, whatever, whatever that those series
are called now, um, and how the professional athletes, they would suit up once a month
because they're going to these competitions. I'm like, well, why aren't we doing that?
Um, and so like in October, we have a three session time final meet that we host, uh,
which is, we also do, uh, in January, we go to Notre Dame every year for their three session
time final meet. But, um, when you suit up like that, I prefer to do it in competition
and not really in dual meets because dual meets, you're doing three or four events in
a, you know, two, three hour time period. I don't think you get a lot of real relevant
data from it. There's not really much to pull from it, but these, you know, invites, right?
So you have a day and a half where we're able to like work together for a longer period
of time than we are during a dual meet. And then when we have a prelim final in November
and a prelim final in December, like we're actually working on racing and how we can
be better for a longer period of time than if we just had dual meets or, you know, you
know, data competition here, data competition there. I like suiting up because, um, it removes
the variables. Now I don't give them a new suit every time, which would be any, a different,
you know, whole other variable, right? But in terms of, you know, they can wear old suits.
So, you know, it is different than racing in practice suit or a dual meet suit. And
so you're able to get more relevant feedback at the end of the season. If we didn't go
faster than we did in October, November, December, well, then you can actually ask the questions.
Well, what, what, what went wrong? What do we do different? Which could be training.
It could be the pressure of the moment. It could be what's going on outside the pool.
It could be nutrition. There's a lot of variables that go into it, but because we do it so often,
um, we're able to, you know, get rid of the, the variable of regular suit and trying to
figure out what that actually means for performance. Um, and you know, I know, you know, some folks,
they might get a little worried about, you know, well, what if somebody swims really fast
and then, you know, they, they, they're worried they can't swim that fast again or this or
that. Well, those are all teaching opportunities. That's what they are. So, you know, you're,
you're looking at things differently than we did 20 years ago, where you just wait until
people go fast at the end of the year. Now it's an educational opportunity. Okay. Well,
we know the suits make a difference, but then also the moment makes a difference, you know,
where we have someone on our team, uh, Grace Newford, who is Paralympian and she, she swam
in Paris this summer, got a silver medal, right? So, you know, I think that there is
that post Olympic lull that happens. And I just talking to her after one of her races
in December, she's like, I don't know, you know, why wasn't a little bit faster? I'm
like, well, I go, did you go to bed last night and wake up this morning the same way you
did when you were in Paris? And she's like, no, you're right. And I'm like, so I go, I
go that. So that also plays into it as well. So you, you know, it just gives the opportunity
to be able to figure out that, okay, Hey, yeah, there is other things that go into it
besides the suit. That doesn't change, but you have to be able to know if that's something
you need to talk about. And one of the ways you should be able to do that is if you have
better data and you, you know, you, you suit up more often. So, um, I think that that's
something that really helps us. Um, and you know, when you swim fast early in season,
that's great. Yeah. You might not get as big of a drop at the end of the year, but you
know, you're, you know, that's managing, you know, expectations, the faster you get to,
it's also going to be a lot harder to have big drops. So, you know, there's, there's
just a lot that goes into it. So, so yeah. Um, and I would rather them swim fast early
and then, Oh, maybe it doesn't go as well. And then we figure out why. So that doesn't
happen again. And maybe that's on me. Maybe that's on them. I, you know, I don't know
that there's a lot of things that go into it. So, um, I think that that's something
that helps our improvement as well. Cause we're always curious and we're always trying
to find ways and just how the team interacts with each other. And you know, somebody might
come up to me and ask for help on a starter underwater kicks. And I'm like, go talk to
Abby because she's going to help you better than I am. And then I'll ask Abby what she
did. I'm like, yeah, that makes sense. You know, or they remember something I told them
three years ago that helps someone else that I'd totally forgotten about. I'm like, yeah,
that's great. Let's do it. So there's a little bit. So I really think that is a smart approach.
I like the fact that you suit up often. I, I would not want to just be surprised at the
end of the year about how somebody's going to swim to see them suit up and swim once
a month. It seems like that, that is a good way to evaluate your in season progress and
sort of dampen down those surprises at the end of the year. And the other thing, and
I agree with you completely, you know, there's so much discussion around making dual meets
more exciting, but your championship meets at the end of the season where it really counts,
they're not in that same format. And so to swim more meets in that format, but also suited
up, you probably don't, you probably have a really, really good idea how you're going
to do at, at Mac championships before you ever arrive. And I think that's really smart.
Thanks. Appreciate it. Yeah, you do. And then with what you see in practice also. So, you
know, that, that can play into it as well. But yeah, I know that there's been a lot of
talk about making dual meets more exciting and stuff. And, you know, maybe they just
need to be more important or the format needs to be more important or more relevant, or,
you know, like I, with the, the three session time final event, you know, we have five teams
that are here, you know, men's and women's. So there's more people there by default because
it's a little bit bigger of a competition. Not everybody suits up at that October meet,
but still there's, you know, there's a really good turnout spectator wise. So, you know,
when you, when you have this really good progression in your upperclassmen, one of the things that
you've done is you've kept them motivated for years. Right. And I wonder, I wonder how
you structure your season, how that contributes, because I've definitely seen the stress on
athletes of having no taper meets, no suiting up until the end, getting the flu, having
a bad taper. Like you said, just, just having an off cycle schedule, didn't get enough sleep
and they do bad. And then they got to wait a whole nother year to figure it out. You've
got a lot of checkpoints through the season to know, Hey, I'm what I'm the work I'm putting
in it. It's, it's given me results. And I wonder how much that contributes to the fact
that you've kept your athletes motivated through their whole career.
Maybe, I don't know, but it, but it's, it's, it's good data to go back and look at, see
where you were the year before, because everybody does it. I mean, even we, you know, swim awesome
in February and March, and then we come to that October meet. And then I have a couple
people that come in like, why am I swimming so slow? And I pull up what they, they did
it last year in October and they're like, Oh, I was really slow then. I'm like, exactly.
I'm like, so just relax. Like it's totally fine. You know, sure. Maybe they are, maybe
they are faster or whatever, but I'm just saying like there's, there's, there is something
to be said about that consistency. But then even if they swim different events and that
changes the conversation too. Cause I've had some people that swim different events at
our invite in December and you know, so then that changes the data a little bit, but then
that also keeps it exciting for them. Cause there's somebody that actually swims, you
know, a lot of different events. So they have some options, uh, in what they're going to
compete at the end of the year. So, yeah.
Let's talk, uh, tuition for a second because Akron's in a, in a really interesting position.
So you know, the cost of college, it keeps going up. It's a lot of scary numbers when
you see that cost of attendance, but Akron's actually one of the most affordable schools
to attend in all of division one swimming in state or out of state. Do you, do you see
that as an advantage? Do you use that as an advantage when you're recruiting?
Um, I mean, I guess it's an advantage. Um, I don't know that I would, I use it in that
regard, um, when it comes to recruiting. Cause I think in the end, um, you know, with anybody
that's being recruited, I think it should, if finance finances are important because
that's if it's not important for everybody. Um, some people, they can go wherever they
want to go and pay whatever, because, um, that's their life situation. And that's great.
Others that it can be different, but in the end, I think that, you know, it just matters
what the, the bottom line is and what you're going to have to pay, um, at whatever school
you're going to be at. And you know, it, I think it does help that, that we're affordable,
but at the same time, you know, we have the same percentage of scholarships that every
other school does. Uh, although I guess some of that's going to change here with the, the
NCAA settlement and all that stuff that's coming, coming down the pipeline. But, um,
but no, I think we are very fortunate and can make it very affordable, um, for those
that decide to attend Akron, um, because, you know, it is very inexpensive to come to
school here and provide a great education. And we also have great academic scholarships
as well. Um, so we become, uh, very affordable, very affordable. Are you guys, uh, fully funded
as a athletic program, at least the definition of fully funded? Yes. Yeah. We have 14, uh,
full scholarships that we can offer. Um, so we are fully funded with the, that definition.
Um, we will not have 30 full scholarships moving forward. At least I don't think so. Maybe my
administration will surprise me. I have no idea, but you know, right now until all that gets
settled, uh, you know, I don't put a whole lot of thought into worrying about, you know, what's
going to happen. Um, I think that, you know, things are going to work out the way that,
that they're supposed to work out. Um, and then we'll, we'll handle those situations when,
when we get there. Okay. So, you know, we've talked about NIL, name, image, likeness. We, we mentioned
the grand house, uh, versus NCAA settlement. Um, there's, there's so much fear around those changes
and how they're going to affect college swimming at a specific college all the way to the macro
level of the sport. Uh, how do you think this is going to shake out for, for your program? Do
you think it's a good thing, bad thing, not really a much of a change? I don't think there's going to
be too much of a change for, for Akron. Um, you know, I think power four, I think that that,
that's going to be a significant change, uh, or has the greater, um, opportunity for that to change.
But, uh, I think in the end, uh, they're just going to be, uh, it, you know, the, the same
relatively speaking, uh, levels of talent that end up coming to Akron, uh, or other schools that are
like us. And then our job is to help them improve. Um, you know, I don't think that we're going to
have these massive NIL deals. Um, I couldn't even tell you if we have any right now, to be honest,
I think I know our athletic department helps in some ways, but you know, it's not anything that
I've really, uh, thought about. Uh, and I don't think that it's going to, uh, it's not, it's not
going to change very much on our level. And that could be wrong. And if it does, then we'll have
to adapt. But, uh, I think the, the trickle down is going to be about the same. And I think that,
um, you know, those that want to compete are going to be able to, you know, compete and find places
that they want to go to. And it's going to be about the same. So that's my thought too. I get
asked this question a lot and, and I know so many of the headlines revolve around the very top end
of swimming, you know, the power force and what they're doing and, and they're, they, they are
greatly affected because of the, just the budgetary constraints that they have and roster size, uh,
limitations that are trickling down. But my belief is that the bulk of swimming, this is the mid
majors, this is the D twos and the D threes, you know, I don't think what happens at the top end
is necessarily a reflection of what's going to happen across the board. I could be wrong. We've
got to wait and see how it goes, but I don't, I don't have that same sort of like gloom and doom
that so many people have with, uh, with these changes. Yeah, I don't either. And, and hopefully
we're right, you know, until everything comes out, we won't really know. But I think that that's,
you know, that that's also how I approach life. I'm, I don't really worry about things until I need
to worry about them. I today has enough, enough challenges in it for me, uh, to be working on. So,
you know, we'll, we'll tackle this one once they, they figured out in the courtroom and, um, and
we'll go from there. Yep. Okay. Last question. So when you're not coaching swimming, what is the
most fun sporting event to check out at Akron and Akron? Yes. I mean, our men's soccer program,
they are awesome. So, you know, they, they actually just went into the big East because
the Mac doesn't have soccer anymore, but, uh, we won a national championship in 2010 and Jared
Embach, our coach, he's been to three final fours since I've been here. Um, so that's pretty
exciting, you know, when you have a team of that level, a lot of their guys, they end up going on
and playing professional soccer, uh, or you'll see them in the world cup. Uh, but there, there's a
lot of really good athletes there and those, those matches are really exciting. Um, so I would say
that, uh, men's soccer would be the most exciting at Akron. Nice. Well, coach, thank you so much for
being on, uh, that, that was really fun. Uh, I cannot wait to see how you progress through the
season. You've already started off huge, so it's going to be fun to see if you get, uh, what your
11th Mac title. Uh, so keep that streak going. So thank you so much for being on. I really appreciate
it. Thanks, Jamie. I appreciate being here too. Happy holidays. All right. You too. Thank you.