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Alright, welcome to the Swim Intel Spotlight.

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I'm Jamie Bailey and today we've got an absolute legend in college swimming.

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Jon Howell, the head coach at Emory University is here.

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Coach Howell has been running the show at Emory since 1998 and has built a dynasty.

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Listen to this.

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15 NCAA D3 championships, 58 individual national titles, over 1300 all-American swims and

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nine-time national coach of the year.

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And coach Andrew Wilson, the first D3 swimmer to ever compete at the Olympics, who also

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won a gold medal in Tokyo.

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Coach Howe, thank you for coming on.

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Jamie, thank you for having me.

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So here's what blows my mind about what you've done.

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Emory is not just one of the top swimming schools.

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It's one of the top academic schools in the country.

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And that's not an easy combo, right?

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Usually you get one of the other fast swimmers or top academics, but you have both.

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Yet you guys crank out these high-level athletes while they're grinding through some tough

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academic programs.

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So what do you look for in a recruit to know they're not just going to survive, but thrive

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in your program and at Emory?

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Yeah, no, I appreciate that.

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And I think what we have always done really well at Emory is supported our students to

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balance swimming and academics at a really high level.

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And I think there's a lot of factors that go into that.

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But certainly one of them is finding the right people.

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And when we look at a recruit, or we look at our recruiting pool as a whole, I think

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the process is kind of a big funnel.

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And at the top, it's a wide entry point.

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We get a lot of interest.

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And I think where that funnel narrows the most is when we start looking at academic

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fit.

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So they have to get through the admissions process at Emory and be excited about what's

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available here academically.

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And so that narrows down quite a few recruits that are interested in the front end.

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The second area that really narrows that pool is just the athletic fit.

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So we are in a position where we can be selective.

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And so swimmers have to meet certain time standards and fit our profile.

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So that narrows the pool further.

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And then after that, it becomes a little bit more subjective.

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And we will end up with more swimmers that meet the academic requirement and the swimming

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requirement than we're going to take into the program.

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And so we start looking at other factors.

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And for us, a good fit is, number one, someone who wants to get better.

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And is really curious about what that process looks like, is really committed to that process

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of developing.

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And we've always been a developmental program.

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And so we're looking for swimmers that really want to move forward in the sport and pursue

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the opportunity to take it as far as they possibly can.

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We also look for people who are going to be good collaborators in that process.

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We look at this process as a collaborative process.

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It's not just the coaches telling the swimmers what to do.

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And so we want swimmers who are going to be actively engaged in that process, who are

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curious about what's going to lead them to reach their potential.

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So I think that's a big part of it.

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They have to be, they have to connect with our community and be good fits for our community.

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We attract really good people.

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And they represent us at a really high level, both on campus and off campus.

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And so we're looking for people who are going to take advantage of our community, but really

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benefit from it as well.

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So I think there's a lot of things that really have to line up for this to be the right place

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for someone.

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And when it lines up, I think it's a really exciting fit for them.

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Okay, I got to say, I feel like people sleep on D3 swimming.

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So many high school swimmers are locked in on D1.

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They think that's the only legit option.

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But then you look at Emory and it's like, wait a second, these guys are faster than

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a lot of D1 programs.

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Your recruiting numbers are insane, better than half of D1 teams.

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In your conference, UAA is faster than a lot of mid-major D1s.

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So what do you tell the kids or their parents who think D3 isn't quote unquote, big time

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enough?

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Yeah, again, I think it goes back to finding the right fit.

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And I think the reality is that if you look at the Division I world, there's a wide range

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of opportunities in the Division I world.

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Swimming at Texas is a totally different experience than swimming at a mid-major or an Ivy League

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school.

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And so I think that's true also of Division III and probably true of Division II as well.

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There's a lot of diversity in terms of environments out there and opportunities out there.

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I think what we offer at Emory is unique among Division III.

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I don't think there's anything quite like us out there.

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In some ways, we look more like a Division I program.

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In other ways, we're totally not a Division I program.

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So for us, we try to find people who see the value in who we are and what we do and are

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really going to come in and take advantage of that.

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And often, I would say most of our recruits start off looking at the Division I world

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and maybe they get frustrated and they have to give up something academically to go down

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that road or they don't quite find that perfect fit or balance.

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We offer something that is really unique among the Division III world and something that

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is I think just uniquely Emory.

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And so when we find someone that's excited about what we have to offer and they fit the

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profile, I think it works out on its own.

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Yeah, yeah, completely agree.

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I think a lot of people refer to Emory as athletically more D1 than a lot of D1s.

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Here's another wild thing.

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You guys don't just crush it in D3.

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You're out here scheduling dual meets with top D1 programs.

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I mean, this season alone, you went against Georgia Tech.

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You tied Queens or your women did and you're going to wrap up with Georgia.

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That's crazy.

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How do you even approach a season like that?

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Is this just a way to test your team against the best or is there more to the strategy?

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And honestly, do you ever sense some D1 coaches are like, yeah, I don't know that we want

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to swim, Emory.

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Yeah, I mean, the country, at least the Southeast, is full of teams that we have scheduled in

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the past that won't swim us again because we have won some meets against Division I

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schools.

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But really what we're looking for again is development and opportunities to test ourselves

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in a number of different competitive environments.

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So I try to schedule meets against some really good head-to-head competition.

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Queens is a good example of that.

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Our women tied, but our men won a majority of individual events.

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They got us on some relays.

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We were early in our season, hadn't done a lot of relay starts, and Jeff's group did

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a great job there.

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So we schedule the meets like that.

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We'll schedule some meets against some other D3 teams that are regional that we're probably

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going to win a majority of our meets, but it gives us a chance to maybe move some people

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in some different events or swim in a little different environment.

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And then we schedule meets against some of the best swimmers in the country, some of

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the best swimmers in the world.

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And I think as an athlete and as a competitor, if you can be at your best in a number of

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different environments and a wide range of environments, it just makes you a better overall

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competitor.

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So we try to test ourselves in different environments and in different situations.

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And I think part of it is also strategic on our part.

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We really want to keep our swimmers in class.

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And so if we schedule things regionally, we can leave after class on Friday or leave Saturday

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morning and still keep them in class and get a competitive opportunity in.

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So most of what is available in the Southeast is either the haves or the have-nots.

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You're either swimming against big SEC or ACC teams or you're swimming against teams

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that are below us.

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So part of it is also just where we are geographically.

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But I think it benefits our swimmers to have to step up and compete in a wide range of

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environments.

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OK.

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So the raging debate right now in college swimming, suiting up at meets, we're in a

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tech suit at dual meets.

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Where do you stand on suiting up at dual meets?

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Well, I think we haven't done it yet, to be honest.

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I think that I have kind of mixed feelings about the hype right now surrounding dual

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meets.

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And I get it to some degree.

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But my thought is there's only so many times you can ask your swimmers to get up and be

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at their best and to emotionally really give to a meet.

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And so if we're going to do that, we want it to be a really good opportunity for them.

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And I think dual meets, unfortunately, are pretty limited in terms of the events they

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can swim and the range of events they can swim.

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And so I would rather save those opportunities for a prelim final meet or a multi-day meet

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where we really can get up and test ourselves and learn a little bit more.

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So I think there's pros and cons.

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I get it.

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I think right now there's a real push to try to boost the fan experience and maybe get

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more people to meets.

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I think that that's exciting for swimming in some regards, but I think it has some limitations

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in other areas.

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And I think the reality of swimming, at least from what I've seen, is the crowd makeup is

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typically parents, friends of swimmers, and maybe a couple swimming fans mixed into it.

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It's hard to really, I think, expand our base beyond that pool.

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And I think people look at the Olympics every year and look at the viewership for swimming.

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They think, oh, maybe we can tap into that at the collegiate level.

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To this point, nobody's been able to do that.

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It's kind of a unique experience watching the Olympics on TV.

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And so I worry about spending money and effort and also giving up opportunities to race in

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suits to try to add a few more people to your stands.

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OK, so if you could just completely rewrite the format of the season, just throw out the

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rules throughout the traditions, how would you make the in-season experience of college

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swimming more exciting, draw in more people than just those parents and friends and family?

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Yeah, again, I kind of go back to do we really need to?

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And maybe we do.

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I'm not saying I have all the answers.

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But I look at dual meets as an opportunity for us to get up and race and learn from races

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and apply what we've done during the week and see if we can apply it to a competitive

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setting and learn from that and use it to move on and get better.

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I don't know, you know, it's fun to have people in the stands.

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We certainly draw a pretty good crowd at Emory because we have a lot of alums in the area.

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Our parents are really supportive, our community is supportive, you know, Emory is supportive

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of what we do.

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I think we get more fans than probably most E3 schools.

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But I don't feel like we need to fill our stadium every time we compete in a dual meet.

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So again, I have mixed feelings about it.

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I think the ways in which you make it more exciting, you either add fan experiences,

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lights or effects or food or whatever, which costs money.

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And I think we're at a point in collegiate athletics where things costing more is not

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necessarily a good thing for the sport.

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Or you end up changing the format in a way that maybe there's you race the sprinters

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more and you do semifinals and swim offs and things like that.

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I don't know, again, there'd have to be for me be an advantage from a training standpoint

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and a racing standpoint to do that.

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I think you downplay the distance events sometimes when you do that.

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So I think there's pros and cons to everything.

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And I think maybe focusing on one meet that you really try to build something unique and

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special and make it a big deal and try to get people to come could be a really fun exercise.

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But I don't know if I necessarily need that every single dual meet.

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Oh, yeah, I agree.

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I think that would be really cool to focus on one just really exciting meet, try to draw

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people in.

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I had the opportunity to be at a meet where I believe it was Allison Greenway that set

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a team record at a dual meet.

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It wasn't even a taper meet.

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And the crowd got loud for that.

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That was actually a really cool experience.

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So yeah, yeah.

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And that's an unusual meet because it's usually four teams and we do it over two days.

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So there's a lot of racing.

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So we had a lot of parents in the stands.

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We had a lot of alumni in the stands and the other teams because again, we have more teams

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there.

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They also bring their fan base.

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So yeah, that had more people in the stands than a typical dual meet.

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And it also was a meet where we had more opportunities to get up and race.

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And so we were taking advantage of that.

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Yeah, that was fun.

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OK, let's get into the business side for a second.

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College sports, they're changing fast.

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You've got the greenhouse settlement, NIL deals, budget shifts.

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It's a whole new world that's forming.

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How do you think all these changes are going to impact D3 programs like yours, especially

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a school like Emory where academics are such a huge focus?

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I think that the honest answer is I'm not sure yet.

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It is changing and it is changing quickly.

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We certainly have had a lot of interest from student athletes that have either been cut

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from programs at the Division I level or they've been cut, they've committed to a school and

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then schools have come back and changed that commitment.

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And so no longer offering them spots.

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We've had a lot of that this year.

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So I fear that with these changes, there's going to be fewer opportunities for high school

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swimmers that want to swim in college across the board.

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That's certainly going to be the case at Division I because I think you're not only seeing roster

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limits at the highest level, but we're starting to see it even at the major level and other

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levels.

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So I think we're going to end up with more interest and maybe more interest from students

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that assume they go D1, but maybe there's not the opportunity that they thought there

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was.

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But the reality is we're still a fit.

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And so the group that we need to find has to fit so many different criteria that just

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because they're the right swimmer and they can compete for us at this level and add to

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what we're doing as a team doesn't mean that they're right fit for Emory and our team.

238
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So I see it being a bit more vetting, a bit more work.

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Going back to that funnel analogy, I think maybe that incoming stream going into the

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00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:03,640
funnel is just going to become greater now than it was two years ago because there are

241
00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:09,640
people that would have found a fit somewhere else and are reevaluating the process.

242
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Are you seeing the top of your funnel getting bigger?

243
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Are you seeing more interest right now?

244
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Yeah.

245
00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:19,400
And I think that's been kind of a trend over the last several years.

246
00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:21,560
We are no longer an up and coming program.

247
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We're well established and people know who we are.

248
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So I think there's a lot of interest there.

249
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I think Emory is a very appealing place.

250
00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:30,560
And so that has also built interest.

251
00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:36,800
And yes, we are definitely seeing more students that started this process thinking they were

252
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going to go to Division 1 that are realizing now that that's not an opportunity.

253
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And so they're reevaluating things.

254
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Yeah.

255
00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:50,100
We've seen the aftermath of some of these roster cuts.

256
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Also with the recruits as well, days before signing day, we've had athletes that have

257
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come in to swim and tell that we're cut from that recruiting class.

258
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And it's been really hard to watch that pain that the 2025s, I think, really got put in

259
00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:10,480
a bad position with all of these changes.

260
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So my heart goes out to them.

261
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I think it's going to get, unfortunately, worse before it gets better.

262
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And talking to friends in the Division 1 world, some of them have a clear sense of what next

263
00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:24,080
year is going to look like.

264
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It's very unclear still.

265
00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:30,880
But I think the reality is most schools are going to land and most conferences are going

266
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to land somewhere between 22 and 30 is a roster limit.

267
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And that's just going to put a lot of kids that are at current schools looking for transfer

268
00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:42,080
opportunities.

269
00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:45,800
And it's also going to limit opportunities for those that are coming in the front door.

270
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And yeah, it's going to be a difficult situation.

271
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And I don't think we've seen the worst of it yet, unfortunately.

272
00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:55,840
Yeah.

273
00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:57,120
So you've got what?

274
00:17:57,120 --> 00:18:00,840
Around 40 guys and 40 girls, just swimmers on your team.

275
00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:05,800
Do you think Emory's roster size will stay around where you have historically been?

276
00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:09,240
Or are you foreseeing some changes coming to your team?

277
00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:10,360
Yeah.

278
00:18:10,360 --> 00:18:16,800
I think we have, over the last two years, actively worked to reduce our roster size

279
00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:20,160
by being more selective on the recruiting side.

280
00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:23,960
We got a little bit big as a result of COVID.

281
00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:29,080
We recruited one class who wasn't able to visit campus, so we never met them in person.

282
00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:33,160
So we offered more spots there than we would have with a normal class and more took us

283
00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:36,160
up on the offer than we expected.

284
00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:40,840
We also had swimmers that did gap years or fifth years because of COVID.

285
00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:44,040
So we ended up bigger for a couple of years than we really wanted to be.

286
00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:49,520
And through that process, I really decided that I'd rather be smaller rather than bigger.

287
00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:53,920
And so we have actively worked to reduce our roster.

288
00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:59,880
And our goal in two years is to be between 25 and 30 men, 25 and 30 women on the swimming

289
00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:06,280
and the things, and then let our diving coach do what he thinks is right for that program.

290
00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:14,040
So we will definitely be smaller, but that's more by design on our part than it is by some

291
00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:19,080
kind of a restriction from the conference or even the university.

292
00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:24,720
I do think you'll see, the D3 world is again, very different.

293
00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:32,240
There are some schools where they really need to keep numbers up because of enrollment pressures.

294
00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:37,280
And student athlete enrollment is a big part of the financial structure of the school.

295
00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:41,080
So they're under pressure to carry as many student athletes as they can.

296
00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:46,360
I think at places like Emory, what we're finding is that the cost of supporting students in

297
00:19:46,360 --> 00:19:52,880
this day and age is more than it was several years ago.

298
00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:59,000
And so a lot more resources are being allocated towards mental health and different support

299
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:01,000
systems within the university.

300
00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:03,760
And that means that there's less probably trickling down to athletics.

301
00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:10,240
And so I do think you'll see some roster limitations even out there at the division three level.

302
00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:14,080
But I think it's going to be again, school by school versus maybe a conference driven

303
00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:18,760
type of a situation that you're seeing right now in D1.

304
00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:23,520
So here's something that's crazy to me, your retention rates.

305
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:29,860
So you have almost like every swimmer that is a freshman on your team coming back swimming

306
00:20:29,860 --> 00:20:31,720
their sophomore year.

307
00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:37,820
And to have almost 100% retention, especially that freshman sophomore year, that's really

308
00:20:37,820 --> 00:20:40,900
unheard of in most college programs.

309
00:20:40,900 --> 00:20:42,640
The team is a pretty big team right now.

310
00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:45,720
I know you said you're going to by design take it down a little bit.

311
00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:49,360
But how do you keep everybody motivated and bought in?

312
00:20:49,360 --> 00:20:53,640
And you've done this for years too, even when only about half the team is going to be able

313
00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:56,200
to compete at UAAs or NCAAs.

314
00:20:56,200 --> 00:21:03,240
Yeah, again, I think it goes back to finding the right people and really committing to

315
00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:05,000
the development of each individual.

316
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:12,600
And we have so many examples on our team of swimmers who came in freshman year.

317
00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,880
And didn't make travel squads.

318
00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:19,840
We're outside the competitive threshold to make nationals.

319
00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:25,160
But they develop and they really learn from the people that are in that situation.

320
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:30,200
They develop, they get better and they end up being an All-American for us as an upperclassman.

321
00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:33,960
Last year on both the men's and the women's side, we had upperclassmen that made nationals

322
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:36,720
for the first time that were contributors at the national level.

323
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:43,440
We had one senior bullfighter, his first travel of his four years really was conference his

324
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:46,280
senior year and then he was an All-American for us.

325
00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:51,680
So I think when we get swimmers that really see the value in our process and who really

326
00:21:51,680 --> 00:22:01,280
want to get better and commit to that, they realize that it is going to be a process.

327
00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:05,060
Everybody looks at Andrew Wilson and the success that Andrew had.

328
00:22:05,060 --> 00:22:10,640
He never made a travel roster in his first semester with us as a freshman.

329
00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:16,640
And so it took him time to get his feet underneath them and to adapt to what we're doing and

330
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,760
to move forward and get better.

331
00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:25,720
And so even the best swimmers we've ever had, there's been a process of developing them.

332
00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:29,080
And I think that's one of the things that's really stood out as unique to our program

333
00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:33,320
is especially among peer schools that are academically driven.

334
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:37,160
Our swimmers not only get better from freshman year to sophomore year, but they continue

335
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:38,600
to get better all four years.

336
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:41,800
And our best swimmers are always our juniors and our seniors.

337
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:47,040
And so it's a different path for different swimmers and different process for different

338
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:48,040
swimmers.

339
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:51,680
But I think if they're committed to that process of really exploring what's possible for them

340
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:57,680
as individuals, then not making a travel squad one year is just part of that process and

341
00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:01,880
sets them up to do something better down the road.

342
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:06,040
What I thought was one of the best recruiting pitches I've heard from any coach was, I heard

343
00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:12,640
you say one time, I need a 53 second 100 backstroke or female to win nationals, but I can't recruit

344
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:18,480
one because a 53 second 100 backstroke is going to go power four, power five.

345
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:24,040
So we recruit a 56, 57 and we make them into a 53.

346
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:29,440
And that is a really powerful recruiting pitch both for the athlete as well as the parents.

347
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:33,720
Yeah, and it's a fun process for us to be honest.

348
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:38,120
And I always feel like this sport is a lot more fun when you're moving forward and you're

349
00:23:38,120 --> 00:23:40,240
working towards something.

350
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:44,200
And as a coach, it's a lot more fun to coach people who want to get better.

351
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:48,840
And we're really fortunate to have swimmers that are actively part of that process with

352
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,360
us and they become really good partners.

353
00:23:51,360 --> 00:23:55,440
And as upperclassmen, they're adding a lot to their own development and a lot to what

354
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:56,880
they're doing training wise.

355
00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:01,520
Okay, so let's talk about some of these time drops that you're seeing.

356
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:07,040
So I was looking at some of your swimmers like Ryan Soh, he dropped from a 49.6 out of

357
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:14,480
high school to a 47.2 in the 100 fly or Jake Meyer going from a 55 to a 52 in the 100 breast.

358
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:16,740
These are huge time drops.

359
00:24:16,740 --> 00:24:18,720
So what's your approach to training?

360
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:23,760
Have you found some kind of magic formula over the years that you just repeat or has

361
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,440
it been a lot of trial and errors over the years?

362
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:32,320
Yeah, one thing I love about swimming is there's nothing magic about it.

363
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:38,600
And as soon as you kind of feel like you figured it out, it has a way to keep you pretty humble.

364
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:45,720
But for us, first of all, I don't just repeat what we do every year.

365
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:47,160
I get bored very easily.

366
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:48,680
So I like trying new things.

367
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,040
I like learning from new experiences.

368
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:55,080
I believe that you learn a lot from failure, sometimes even more from failure than your

369
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:56,340
successes.

370
00:24:56,340 --> 00:25:02,360
And so we're always trying new things and pushing the envelope in different areas.

371
00:25:02,360 --> 00:25:08,340
So I think from a training perspective, what we have found works for us is to really look

372
00:25:08,340 --> 00:25:13,680
at the individual and kind of meet swimmers where they are as opposed to just labeling

373
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:18,000
them a sprinter or breaststroker or backstroker and training everybody the same way.

374
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:22,020
So every one of my team has a training plan that's designed for them.

375
00:25:22,020 --> 00:25:26,200
It's a process that they have input into and they're part of in terms of developing it.

376
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:33,680
And so we have however number of swimmers we have, everybody has their own unique training

377
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:34,680
plan.

378
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:37,320
And it's something that they understand.

379
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,520
And we both know what the purpose is and what they're trying to accomplish.

380
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:43,400
And we're always reevaluating it and tweaking it.

381
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,800
It's very common for a senior to be doing something very different than what they started

382
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:47,800
with freshman year.

383
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:52,200
And both Ryan So and Jake Myers are great examples of that.

384
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:56,160
Where we started freshman year and where we ended training-wise senior year, it was a

385
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:59,000
process of development.

386
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:05,120
And so I think by looking at them as individuals and really looking at things in a very purpose-driven

387
00:26:05,120 --> 00:26:10,520
way, I think we're able to help them explore what's possible.

388
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,520
And that's always been at the heart of what we do.

389
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:17,520
And we're actively supporting the academic piece along the line as well.

390
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:23,880
And sometimes a change in the water is dictated by a really difficult semester academically

391
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:29,960
or really hard semester academically or a really easy semester academically might dictate

392
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:30,960
a change as well.

393
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:35,760
So we look at the whole picture and really try to support them as people as well as well

394
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:38,560
as as athletes and students.

395
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:45,000
So when you're recruiting an athlete out of high school, do you find that you need to

396
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:49,960
find athletes that are more compatible with your training style?

397
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:55,160
Do you look more towards certain clubs that you have a familiarity with, with how those

398
00:26:55,160 --> 00:27:00,240
coaches have coached those kids through their high school years?

399
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:05,960
Or is that just not really a big part of recruiting yet?

400
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:13,160
I think there are clubs out there I know well and coaches I know well.

401
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:17,000
And I try to get out every summer and visit some clubs so I have a better sense of where

402
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,200
our students are coming from.

403
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:23,440
Because if I have a better idea of what they've done in the past that helps me to advise them

404
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:27,360
on where we start freshman year and where we kind of go with things.

405
00:27:27,360 --> 00:27:34,280
But we've had success with a wide range of clubs and it's amazing when you get out and

406
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:36,920
visit clubs.

407
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,800
There's a wide range of what people are doing.

408
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:44,520
And so that's one of the reasons why I really believe we should look at this as an individual

409
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:50,080
process because if you're getting a swimmer that's doing 100,000 meter weeks and has been

410
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:55,800
lifting and really specializing versus a swimmer that's never done a double in their life,

411
00:27:55,800 --> 00:28:00,680
never been in a weight room, those are two different challenges.

412
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:05,160
And those swimmers may have the same times coming in, swim the same events, but to look

413
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:10,840
at them as the same people just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

414
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:15,720
So we really don't gravitate towards one club or another.

415
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:20,720
I tend to gravitate towards coaches who I have a good relationship with and who are

416
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:24,000
honest with me in the process.

417
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:30,720
If I try to reach out to coaches when we're recruiting swimmers to get their perspective

418
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:35,760
and kind of learn from them, understand the swimmer better from their perspective, when

419
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:43,280
people don't respond to me or don't return the call, that's less helpful to me than when

420
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:47,240
I have a coach who I know well and I know that they're going to give me the honest good

421
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:51,660
and bad and ugly about this person just so I know what I'm getting into.

422
00:28:51,660 --> 00:28:57,920
So we tend to gravitate towards those clubs that do support us and coaches that are really

423
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:01,680
interested in their students' development beyond just high school.

424
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:05,000
And that tends to be a benefit for us overall.

425
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:09,200
But we get swimmers from all over the country, all over the world and from a wide range of

426
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:12,840
backgrounds and it's part of what makes this process fun for us.

427
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:18,240
Yeah, you have several swimmers on your team that are from the West Coast and I don't think

428
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:23,640
it's always practical to be able to visit all those recruits.

429
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:30,440
So where do you stand on being able to see a swimmer swim before you give them that offer?

430
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:31,440
Are videos important?

431
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,680
Do you need to attend a meet?

432
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:39,960
I really like to attend meets and see them race if I can.

433
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:44,360
Just because I think you learn a lot about how they race and how they approach competition

434
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:49,720
and so you can see strokes.

435
00:29:49,720 --> 00:30:01,000
So we try if possible to see people race and I'm actually going to go to Junior's up in

436
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:06,240
Greensboro in a couple of weeks but I'm really excited to see some of our incoming class

437
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:07,240
swim.

438
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:11,400
Because some of them I haven't seen race yet or I saw them a year ago and it's kind of

439
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:16,800
fun to see that development from one year to the next and to be able to kind of see

440
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:18,960
how they're changing and which direction they're going.

441
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:27,520
So I do find that helpful but it's not always practical to see everybody in the water.

442
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:31,840
And if I can get to a club and see some of our swimmers train too and talk to the coach

443
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:36,360
a little bit more that again gives me another layer of knowledge that we can use when we're

444
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:40,120
setting up a training program so they come in as freshmen.

445
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:45,040
We often tell the athletes that we work with if you're going to give a video to a coach

446
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:50,800
remember they're not recruiting perfection they're recruiting potential.

447
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:56,800
So you don't have to show them the absolute perfect race.

448
00:30:56,800 --> 00:31:00,920
I think that's something you know especially the kids in high school today they really

449
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:05,680
struggle getting over with having to show you that perfect race and that pressure that

450
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:09,960
they put on themselves when they're going to you know show you something you're going

451
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:17,040
to watch and they worry about how that's going to affect the recruiting process for them.

452
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,640
Now I agree and we don't do a lot with video to be honest.

453
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:25,040
You know I think seeing them live is in some ways is more helpful because you really can

454
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:29,760
watch not just the race when they're in the water but how you know how they look outside

455
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:34,320
the water how they're interacting with their teammates with their coaches you know.

456
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:38,480
When I go to a meetup you know I'm looking at more than just you know what they're doing

457
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:40,560
from wall to wall.

458
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:43,560
Yeah you know and you bring up a good point you know how you interact with your teammates

459
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:48,000
how you interact with your coaches how you react to a bad race how you react to a good

460
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:52,120
race because I think some of those things kind of go into the culture of the team you're

461
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:57,840
trying to build and you know everything that I've seen about Emory's culture is it's fantastic.

462
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:02,960
There's a lot of team support amongst the swimmers you know from the day you move in

463
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:06,080
through you know the meet season itself.

464
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:10,640
Yeah and I think for us you know finding people who have a healthy relationship with this

465
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:16,040
sport who are really excited about the opportunities that they have in front of them you know that

466
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,960
that makes all the difference in the world you know and you know you can you can always

467
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:25,080
work with someone who wants to get better and is really motivated to do that and is

468
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:30,760
approaching it from a really positive and proactive way and you know and again there's

469
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:34,840
going to be there's going to be successes and failures along the way and how we deal

470
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:41,040
with failure as well as how we respond to you know things that work out well you know

471
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:44,600
those are important aspects of you reaching your potential.

472
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:48,840
We only have a four-year window which I think when freshmen come in they look at it they

473
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:54,440
think it's it's such a long endless amount of time but you know from my perspective again

474
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:59,240
I've been here 26 years you know the four years go so fast and so we really have to

475
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:02,160
take advantage of each opportunity we have because there's just not enough of them in

476
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:03,160
four years.

477
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:05,560
Yeah totally agree totally agree.

478
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:11,360
Okay last one just for fun outside of dual meets what is the most exciting sporting event

479
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:16,800
to check out at Emory like if I'm on campus what is the can't miss thing?

480
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:21,520
Well I'll tell you from our team's perspective it's volleyball so you know that our team

481
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:26,920
always has a good relationship with volleyball they love going and supporting volleyball

482
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:30,800
so I you know I think that's probably more about the the connection with their team and

483
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:35,120
their community but I think it's a fun game to watch as well.

484
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:40,720
Our team is it's always been very supportive of other teams on campus and we are often

485
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:46,360
called as you mentioned our culture is it's a very close group they're very excited about

486
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:53,040
what they're doing they're very connected it's not uncommon for a team to ask us to

487
00:33:53,040 --> 00:34:00,120
come in and do a cheer for a big game they have or you know to come in and support you

488
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:05,520
know a match that they have on campus so you know we are often called in for that purpose

489
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:11,000
and our team absolutely loves it and they've done you know they've done cheers in the middle

490
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:16,080
of the basketball arena in a big game and you know outside in soccer you know coming

491
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:20,440
from practice and banging on the rails with kickboards and cheering for soccer so they're

492
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:24,800
always happy to get together and do something fun and so you know really anything they can

493
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:30,040
do to to be to be together is usually is usually a win from their perspective but volleyball

494
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:32,960
is probably right now the favorite sport so.

495
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:34,240
Nice nice.

496
00:34:34,240 --> 00:34:38,840
Coach Howell thank you so much for taking the time to answer these questions I know the

497
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:44,240
parents and the athletes love hearing from coaches understanding you know what you look

498
00:34:44,240 --> 00:34:49,240
for in recruits and what it's like to swim there again thank you so much.

499
00:34:49,240 --> 00:34:51,120
Happy to do it and I appreciate you thinking of me.

500
00:34:51,120 --> 00:35:18,120
All right thank you coach out.