Welcome to Art Unframed. I'm Vulcan, and together
with My Cohost Kafani, we dive into the raw side
of creativity. This podcast is about art without
limits, art that questions, art that pushes back,
art that shows us who we are. Every episode,
we sit with artists from around the world to
talk about their journey, their struggles, and
the stories behind their work. It's not just
about galleries and pretty pictures. It's about
freedom, vulnerability, and the power of creating.
Welcome back to Art Unframed. This is season
two. We are going to be opening today with a
powerful conversation. And today we are joined
by two amazing artists, Aida Studio and Maria
Mindal. Together, we will be diving into a topic
that is bold, honest, and maybe sometimes controversial.
We'll be talking about art nudity and censorship.
And we'll be talking about how rules and restrictions
shape creativity and what freedom really means
when your canvas is your skin. So first of all,
I'm going to kind of like keep this. lights by
starting with your journey as an artist. I would
like the both of you to kind of like tell us
about yourself. First of all, I would like to
start with Aida. Okay. I hope I don't take too
much time because there are too many details
within my journey. I will start with the end,
actually. I mean, the present. Therefore, I'm
just a photographer in Web3 right now. I even
ended all the contracts I had with various companies
or agencies or events within Web3, like Artscrash
Gallery and NFT Bucharest and MetaVentis, with
which I was writing newsletters and organizing
NFT Bucharest and so on. And I think I will not
take any other commission next, but I will just
stick to my photography because I have even bigger
plans with it. Yeah, and except what I mentioned,
you know, I launched a photography album since
I'm here. many collections one of them was quite
big 100 one -to -ones which sold out in three
weeks um and yeah this keeps going and before
being in web 3 i have been doing photography
for about 10 years plus and since 2015 i'm working
mostly with people I have been working also with
a therapist within my work because my aim through
my photography, even if it's nude or not, is
to restore people's self -image. So we are basically
reminding the people we are working with their
worth, however they are, and that they are on
a journey. You know, it's not the end. Right
now, even if you don't really appreciate yourself
in this moment, in this specific moment, and
even so, working with us, they are realizing
that, hmm, okay, is this me? Can I look like
this? Wow, I've never been a model, so how come
that, you know, I look like this in your work?
So I think that's the inspiration and that's
also my mission. My photography album is called
I Never Saw Myself This Way for the same specific
reason. It's basically a translation of their
reaction when they see the results that we are
having after the photo session. And I think it's
very important also to mention that the people
I work with, they are not professional models
like that happens. rarely and even so the models
are either retired or they were going through
some specific sad or challenging situations so
yeah i think uh it's enriching starting with
myself and with them and then i believe even
if it's about nudity it's still education tool
for me the art you know it's soul education is
social context education is self -worth education
because we live in a society which pretends to
be free and pretends to give us the absolute
freedom and democracy and all that bullshit in
the end but we know our reality is way better
than the mass media is portraying them And we
do know that we are feeling stressed and repressed
and, you know, negative about how our skin looks
like and how maternity looks like. And I don't
know how our hair or gray hair should look like
and all these things, you know, like all these
limits and all the push on the market for, you
know, makeup commercials or... Yeah, it's a lot.
So, okay. Let's say that's my journey, like the
actual journey within my art, because I, yeah,
I want to stop here because the rest is even
longer than this. But yeah, I did study many
things and had lots of jobs around the globe,
living in many countries. But now I'm just a
photographer in Web3 and thank you so much for
listening. And I promise next answer will be
way shorter. Yeah, it's okay, Aida. Thank you.
You've got, like, a very interesting journey
when you're kind of, like, sharing, especially
from when you were a curator in Bucharest. I
remember being, like, one of the artists that
was kind of, like, curated there. That was last
year. And then your book that you kind of, like,
published recently. the i never saw myself this
way um which is very interesting i'm going to
be talking about that as well um it's just like
very interesting johnny especially um your your
work which is really amazing um um how's your
experience as well maria um can you tell us a
bit about your journey uh hi again yep so um
i've always called myself an artist with many
faces just because for many years i used my ipad
for illustration and i drew in different styles
like very different styles and now i think i've
stopped on photography I started like a self
-portrait photographer and when when I got pregnant
I decided to try something else like to move
a little bit and I started to work with models
like photographers and I really enjoy enjoy it
and I hope I soon I will come back to self -portraits
too so a little bit shorter than Aida but yeah
this is my way in this space I'm here for years
almost five years I think yeah thank you Maria
I really love your those self -portraits and
Your work in Tosa is really lovely, especially,
like, there was one I kind of, like, saw as one
of your spotlights in Instagram, the one you
kind of, like, did while you were kind of, like,
holding your child. It was kind of, like, very
powerful. Like, it spoke in different ways. It
was kind of, like, your headline. I think you
kind of, like, posted it, like, recently as well.
Your self -portraits, your work in total, your
body of work is really interesting. And going
further into the journey of the both of you,
I want to first start with you, Aida. Your book,
I Never Saw Myself This Way, is a very powerful
title. Yeah, what made you come up with that
title? Just tell me, what was your thought process?
Thanks for the question. Yeah, I think I included
it in my first answer. It's basically a more
artistic translation of people's reaction. As
for many of them, it's the first time they are
being models. They really don't know what we
expect or they are not confident in the fact
that we'll have at least reasonable results.
And I do believe we do have amazing results.
So then they lean into that also and they're
surprised and, you know, they're shocked. amusement
and being pleased and you know feeling happy
about it um inspired me to to give that uh that
name to the album um yeah i i actually really
really love your work and i like how you said
your book connects to like real life people real
life people seeing themselves and like being
amazed at um how they could like look like and
how they look like basically after you photograph
them and I love that aspect of photography because
we kind of as photographers we kind of bring
out the beauty to people and i feel like i've
always wanted to like take some nude portrait
of myself like i've always wanted to do that
like i don't think i've like had confidence to
do that yet just yet um so i wanted to ask you
guys here what drew you guys to like nude photography
because it's not really the conventional photography
um that people tend to lean into so like what
um What drew you guys into that? If you can just,
like, anybody can, like, answer first. So, like,
I just want to know, like, what caught your eye,
what took your interest into doing nude photography?
Maya, do you want to answer, please? Sorry, I
just spoke. Okay, no problem. Actually... in
this space like in nft uh i found a very very
talented artist who inspired me and when i saw
her walk i was shocked that nude art could be
so so so different like not vulgar or obscene
or something like erotic maybe and That's when
I decided to experiment with my body, to start
trying to do something very, very gentle, very
tender. And I think, thanks for this space, I
decided to try nude photography. I don't know
why nude, because I think it always brings something
inside me. like love to body to take picture
and just and now it's nude photography here and
I'm really happy about it I will complete Maria
with her tenderness idea And in my case, I think
I also wanted to prove a point to the people
I'm working with again, because of those restrictions
that we're mentioning. And usually people feel
more confident if their speech and their... body
is covered right like if even ourselves we are
censoring ourselves because that's how we were
educated under the family religion society school
kind of protocol right like don't be too loud
you know don't be too naked don't put too much
makeup but put some makeup you know don't go
outside like that don't speak back to me it was
everything with all these don'ts So then I was
thinking, you know, physically, emotionally,
mentally and so on. It would be nice to to take
away all these layers. And I believe once you
are standing nude and naked in front of someone,
you are also emotionally represented like that
because you are in your most vulnerable. physical
form you can find yourself in front of someone
right and except that i like our shapes men and
women i work with men too so um but yeah this
is an interesting point because men are less
open to it even if we are all kind of pointing
fingers at them you know and i have realized
that they are even less confident than us when
it comes to to the self -image because maybe
uh women we are sort of empowering each other
when we come together within this kind of relationships
But when a man has to stay nude and naked in
front of me, it's like, oh, but, you know, I
never did this. It's even more awkward for them.
But, yeah, they still do it under the same amazement.
Yes, please. Yeah, I wanted to say that. I was
even going to ask you as a question, yeah, how
you said the human body is beautiful and you
want to capture the beauty of it. my buddy because
like it's hard like i don't think i really see
photographs of men nude photographs of men like
it's really hard to like see so i want to ask
like is there like when um when you see or when
you want to photograph those men in this intimate
nude mode um nude when you want to take them
nude photographs basically um is there like a
way you make them um uh make them is he make
them feel that it's okay to be vulnerable it's
okay for you to take their picture like it's
all right for them to be vulnerable in this moment
as you're taking their picture because most men
i've met are not really um realizing all rights
um with being vulnerable especially in front
of a woman that is holding a camera so like is
there a way you make them feel um that it's okay
for them to be vulnerable when you want to take
pictures of them basically um i have the same
process with everyone It doesn't matter if they're
women or men, because I believe our vulnerability
comes from the same place, right? I believe it's
influenced by the same factors. It's how you
are raised. If you are raised with self -confidence
or not, it depends on the society you grew up
in. And in the end, you know, you are still a
person. Of course, I didn't study this in depth
when it comes to social groups or nationalities
or religious aspects. I think then we would see
a difference, but that would be more like a social
study. I would need way more time to be able
to answer this. But yeah, I have the same process.
I'm just explaining them what's my aim, why I'm
doing this and how the things will happen. We
usually even meet before the shooting, right?
We go for a coffee or tea or something and I
show them my work so they know what we expect.
So they will understand that it's nothing, you
know, unpolite or outrageous or like too sexualized.
So then I think they're relaxing and once they
understand my motivation, they are. even willing
and looking forward to to collaborate oh okay
i i honestly i would not have looked at it as
just us being that vulnerability comes from the
same place for both genders and i often i would
say i'm of the opinion that um women are more
vulnerable than men uh but like now that you've
like opened my eyes to see that actually vulnerability
come from the same place i actually now have
a different view of it and um i wanted to ask
here what do you feel like um your art is about
except from the obvious that it's nude art like
when we look at it the first glance is nude is
people standing naked you taking pictures of
people like what do you what's your art to you
like what would you describe your art as if i
should actually owe like what's the deeper meaning
of your artwork um either you can go first i
guess okay um yeah as as even my logo says i'm
at least trying to restore people's self image
oh i have to move away from the window just a
second because i'm cold are only 10 degrees here
um okay so restoring people's self -image proving
a point that nudity is not really something to
be scared of or run away from because in the
end that means you are just running away from
yourself i'm not saying that everyone should
be my model you know that's not the case but
at least take some time in the mirror and just
like look at yourself you know like you live
in this body or the body represents you here
you know and i think it's basically about being
awakened into self -love even again No matter
in what society you live and no matter by what
rules you want to live, even, you know, social
ones or religious ones, just love yourself. You
know, like I think if people are happy with themselves,
then we would see even less conflict outside,
like conflict within us. You know, like if we
are calm, we don't really look. through a negative
filter towards the others, but we look with understanding.
So that's why it's all this, like, restoring
people's self -images, not only the physical
image, but about everything, right? Like, if
you respect yourself, it's way easier to understand
the others and respect their point of view, respect
their... situation they are going through or
respect their decisions and all this would lead
to a more healthy society so i think that's what
my work is about actually and even many of my
shots are can't even be considered nude photography
i mean is you know it's just a collarbone or
the back or you know it's something that You
would see even in a summer dress, let's say.
But yeah, it's about confronting yourself with
all these aspects of life, of living. Okay, I
feel like I understand what you're saying because
personally, I'm a big advocate of self -love.
I feel like the first step to respect generally
and kindness comes from a place of self -love
if you love yourself you're enough to um enough
if you love yourself enough it's enough for you
to extend your hand to love other people and
treat them with kindness so like i totally go
with the fact that you're trying to restore people's
self -image of themselves because i feel like
um people these days lack um confidence self
-confidence they lack self -love and it's wonderful
to like see what you're trying to do and i feel
like even with listening to how you express and
talk about the human body. I feel like it might
be time for me to actually love myself enough
to get that nude photograph of myself done. Maria,
could you like tell us what you think about your
art and what you try to express with your art
outside of it being like nude photograph and
not just seen as nude photograph? What do you
like express? As we all know that art is a...
um form of self -expression so like i would like
you to like tell us what your art is talking
about uh first of all aida so sorry that you
needed to talk a lot just because leo is cry
great and i need to calm down him and now i'm
here i'm back um for me nudity is the language
of nature and it's like we come in this world
naked that's how nature created us and that's
why i feel such a strong connection with this
in my work with nature it's both both vulnerability
and strength at the same time for me most often
when someone comes to a nudity photoshoot they
are like fighting an inner battle with their
own insecurities and afterwards they feel incredibly
empowered because they overcome it and I really
love witnessing those emotions it's like something
Wow, when people open something new for themselves.
Thank you, Maria. I really think that the both
of you have a very interesting viewpoint on how
you kind of like express your work and what you
feel people should, what people should feel when
they look at your work. You really kind of like
answered. that question well um especially um
either when kind of like talked about like restoring
restoring the image of someone uh i i really
felt that point and then maria when kind of like
talked about the like nudity being a form of
expression like it's it's uh yeah i really felt
the both of your viewpoints about just that question
so thank you um going further into this i wanted
to say like um how do you think like censorship
affects your your craft and how do you kind of
like manage it anyone can yeah i will answer
maria maria go ahead if uh if leo is calm now
just please go first I think censorship is just
another sign that people are still used to seeing
nudity as something probably like purely erotic,
maybe. I don't know how to find right to vote
for this. And unfortunately... we can't like
apply a filter like show only certain kinds of
nudity art of course there is a different new
dart here um so i've gotten used to blurring
some of my photos and living inside the subtle
bands here it's fine uh that means i have to
fight harder for attention to my work to be louder
brighter and be like everywhere um so it's both
like and plus and minus for us i think thank
you maria um i wanted to kind of like also kind
of like ask like when you're kind of like submitting
your works for galleries and things like that
um how do you kind of like put it in a way that
would get it accepted by those galleries that
have this particular type of censorship rules
um i just um remember it one um one gallery in
probably in France and when people should came
to gallery like naked to see naked art nude art
and I think this is like awesome idea to fight
with censorship And now I'm trying to find a
gallery who will be ready to show new art. And
I don't know, maybe I will rent some room and
do some exhibitions with my works. But yes, trying
to show our works to the public. it's hard do
you also kind of like face that type of challenge
as well either um actually i have a different
answer than maria um because the the censorship
on this platform i think is done with the purpose
there are Few more things behind this, not purely
about nudity, as we have heavily worn accounts,
you know, like which are thriving here. So I
don't think it's really about that. And as the
algorithm is kind of like AI trained, I have
no idea what they train it on, that the beautiful
fine art, nude art is censored and the rest not.
I really didn't find an answer here. So maybe
it's not related to the content, even if we are
feeling like they are targeting us. But on the
other hand, I did have a couple of times two
works which went viral and I had like two million
views on them. So and they were nude. So I think
that. My answer is still unclear regarding the
platform. And overall, I think the censorship,
again, is not on art. Like the nude art. Yes,
there will be places which will accept it and
places which will not accept it. But this happens
with all the genres. If you go even with, you
know, like cartoons, some... galleries will accept
it and some galleries will not accept it so therefore
I think we need to find our relatable galleries
and representatives and so on um and I know that
the nft events at least are trying to host some
nude art also like at every event we see some
curators which are are booking, reserving a special
gallery for this. Sometimes it can be bigger
and sometimes it can be smaller. But I'm trying
to look at it from a more positive kind of place
because until now we really had way less. possibilities
to share any kind of art and especially nude
art. And I think the censorship is mostly on
something else. Again, it comes from the religious
and social point of views. So I think the censorship
is actually on the way we are living our life.
It's not strictly on the art itself. The censorship
is above this if you ask me right i mean all
the laws all the like rules from whatever holy
books and so on which were not even valid until
the church took over right so the censorship
is on something else it's the censorship is on
expression in the end because even if you express
a different political point of view if you express
a different religious point of view yours you
will still be banned right we if you express
any idea about your body's safety you know there
are so many girls within the world in so many
countries which you know, are being abused even
now, and nobody is speaking about that. That's,
again, censorship. It's about health. It's about
boundaries. So I think the topic is actually
vast, and we are just a tiny part of it. But
I think it got better in here, at least. Yes,
we'll not see, you know, the enthusiasm will
maybe not be absolutely public. displayed on
super big screens in the center of the city.
But that's because of the same factors that we
mentioned earlier. It's not that people wouldn't
enjoy it or would disapprove of it. It's still
the governments and the rest of the powers which
are censoring whatever they don't agree with.
So, yeah, that would be my take on this aspect.
Thank you. I think it was so, so deep thought.
I think I even didn't think about it in this
way. It was like, okay, wow. I need to think
about it like deeper. Thank you, Maria. Thank
you. yeah and apparently you know spaces still
have their role you guys keep going and let us
know when when you organize next spaces okay
thank you so much aida and um actually like your
um two of you like marianne that's different
point of view because um although we say that
censorship censorship doesn't really like apply
on x anymore basically people are just ensuring
what they don't like and stuff like that i feel
like instagram still like i don't know about
now presently but like i used to think that instagram
like outrightly censored or like remove nude
ads from instagram i don't know if that does
that still happen i don't know um maybe one of
you will be able to tell us and do you think
that um instagram um limits you like what you
can post limit what you can post or limit how
far you'd have grown right now if they did not
limit you previously um if you can just help
us um yeah i think they are removing whatever
they sense as being nudity but I mean, these
platforms, again, I don't think they should be
our unit measure, even if in a way they are,
because they are like public platforms and we
cannot share this. But. Yeah, I really don't
know what to say about this, because I'm just
trying to work with what I have without. Making
a fuzz about things I cannot control yet. But
I also don't have really, so to speak, like nude,
nude kind of shots. So my art is mostly passing
on Instagram. But I have heard that many accounts,
even if they didn't have sensitive shots, they
were without any, you know, warning or. Yeah,
anything like that. They were shut down, both
Facebook and Instagram. But as there are no humans
actually doing this manually, I think here, again,
we are starting a different talk, right? Because
who is analyzing this data is not us anymore.
So it's a bit awkward, but yeah. Yeah, I feel
like this time the data is really kind of being
judged by... ai or something and sometimes it
can see some content and it's not really about
nudity or anything but someone can just kind
of like post something but it can just flag you
and put you in put the person on another form
of limitation yeah it's really crazy and just
like what you said about some you're kind of
like having some works having that type of traction
about 2 million insights and everything that's
to do it's really crazy and it depends on different
factors so I wanted to kind of like ask how do
you draw the line between nudity as art and nudity
as objectification yeah I would first like to
kind of like start with... Anyone can answer
the question. Maria? Yep, sure. For me, the line,
the difference is intention. When I... photograph
nudity i don't see just a body i see a person
their story and for me it's about showing good
honesty and soul and objectification another
hand takes away the dips and turns the body into
something purely physical and My goal is always
to create work where people can feel the human
being behind the skin. So, like, easy lines for
me. Thank you, Maria. Yeah, it's really interesting
and that does a very important take on it. Aida,
would you like to go? uh yes and before answering
um this would be almost my last kind of question
answer intervention i will have to leave soon
if that's okay um feel free to continue the space
of course and maybe some other people want to
come up um this is a difficult question because
again we are facing The limitations we were educated
by. But I have realized that these limits, they
can shift. I mean, for example, I'm coming from
a very intellectual environment in my family,
like from grand grandparents, they are doctors
and teachers. So imagine the shock that everyone
had, you know. Because I'm a teacher of basics,
too. So it was funny, I would say. It was not
difficult because, OK, within an intellectual
context, it's easier to understand some things.
But when I saw my parents looking at my work,
I could see that they are theoretically accepting
it. But within themselves, there was a battle,
you know, it's like. this is not okay but on
the other hand they were like but you know it's
nice i think slowly they kind of open to it and
then you run into the next limit which is where
should we stop where is art and where it starts
to be just sexual material right um and it's
very hard to to draw limits within some cases
because of what you learned. Because even if
you see a shoulder or a leg in some societies,
that's already porn. But within myself, I think
it really depends on the light you are portraying
that topic. subject and object itself it's about
the gaze it's about how you present it because
it can even be you know there are entire books
of breasts and penises and you know this kind
of things but i don't think that's actually sexual
right it's about diversity it's about the human
body it's about something else so i think depends
what's your aim and how you do it. Because it
can be even the organ itself, right? Like, this
is the reality. And it can be poetical, it can
be mysterious, it can be beautiful even. And
in the same time, it can be very unpolite and
vulgar and not okay because you are encouraging
the public to look at that person as a sexual
object that you can own and abuse and destroy
and have fun with, right? So I think it's our
responsibility as artists and we have to be very
careful how we deliver this message because we
are educating everyone through our work. No matter
if you are aware of that or not, whatever you
put out there, even if it's generative art, even
if it's your, I don't know, cup of coffee or
nudity or a cat or whatever, your message will
be seen by all the people that will see it and
interact with. So you are unconsciously delivering
something. you are encouraging people into that
thing like it's okay to drink coffee it's okay
to take off your clothes so i think it has to
be done lots of education around the topic it's
about it's the same with you know drinking alcohol
like a social thing just you know enjoying some
wine and so on or getting wasted so i think it's
the same with with the nudity And this being
said, thank you, everyone, for being here. I
really, really appreciate the efforts. And I'm
happy to see also my collectors within the space.
Thank you all for being here and my friends.
And, yeah, I'm looking forward. Maybe, you know,
in time we can continue this and go more in depth
and, yeah, taking questions. Wishing everyone
a lovely day or evening. Thank you. Thank you
for allowing me to interview you for this episode.
I really appreciate it. And I really enjoyed
your take on this topic. It's been a really interesting
topic. And just before you go, I just wanted
to kind of just ask like one question. and it's
really kind of like important because i just
wanted to know like how how it's going to be
if there wasn't any type of like censorship essentially
did not exist at all like what kind of art would
you create that you can't right now as i said
earlier i don't really feel like i'm living under
any kind of censorship um Because we live within
bubbles somehow. I would like to... I would just
like to see more kindness. Kindness within the
world. I think there is some censorship regarding
this like the normal beautiful interaction. But
when it's about creating, I... I mean, everyone
can really create whatever they want. You don't
really need to show it. And when we show it,
I'm sure that if you really want to show it,
you will find ways to put it out there, right?
So I do already create as if there is no censorship,
as I don't really feel it myself. I mean, I live
in Prague and I have the support of people around
me. Czech culture is quite open to these things.
So what you see is what you get. But of course,
I'm looking forward to exploring more sides of
my brain, soul, you know, interactions with people.
And that I cannot answer. We'll just have to
witness it together. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you,
Aida. Thank you, Aida, for joining this space.
And it has actually been wonderful learning from
you, learning about your experience. And I hope
each and every one of us have been inspired to
restore our self -images and show our self -love
and treat people with kindness, basically. And
it was wonderful learning from you once again,
Ida. And I love the fact that you create as though
there is no censorship, because I feel like the
bubbles we create are like what's basically limiting
us. And it would be wonderful if people get to
go outside their own self -created bubbles, societal
restriction, and just create what... they want
to create. So it's wonderful seeing that you're
doing that while also restoring people's images.
And we hate to see you go, but we've just loved
having you here. And we hope to see you next
time. And Maria, if you have anything to add
to if censorship did not exist, we'd love to
hear that as well. I think I agree with Aida's
words and I'm not sure it would really change
what I create. I like to believe that my people
will find me even with censorship. So short answer
for me. Yeah, I really love that. Your people
will find you. regardless of what you create
um yeah thank you maria really appreciate your
take on that as well i feel like either and maria
are like two superpowered women because like
what are all these quotes you guys are just dropping
for us like um either wants to change image um
why maria said her people find her i hope everybody
in the audience is taking notes because i feel
like Basically, that's the quote I'm going to
live by from today on. Because my people would
find me as a very overpowered quote. And I really
loved that we had this space with you guys. Because
when me and Volkan were talking, he wanted to
bring two amazing women on this space to talk
about nudity and censorship. When I saw... that
he wanted to bring you guys on i was so so excited
to hear what you guys had to share with us because
um ida i i've not really like um met maria in
the space um but i've had like um run -ins with
ida so I've actually really looked up to how
it works. And I told Volkan that, Volkan, do
you know this nude photographer, Ida, that was
like, and we were on the same wavelength. So
I'm just really glad that this happened. And
I don't know if anyone in the audience have like
questions or like have something to input about
nude photography. Please only nude photography.
And we'll just be taking the questions. So you
can feel free to request. And Ida, I hope we
don't take so much of your time. um thank you
very much for coming mariatsu it was lovely having
you here so we'll be taking questions now if
there are any i might see finance requested so
i'm just going to accept now um okay find out
you can like introduce yourself and then um input
Hello, everybody. This is Fine Art Crypto. And
I just have been following this conversation
since for many years. I've been a fine art nude
photographer since forever. uh we're talking
years and years uh and discussing i have a actual
presentation about the arts the nude in the fine
arts uh which is you know kind of a recollection
of information about all this going on in the
in the arts and the news and censorship now even
with ai all the social media being ai controlled
in some way is just adding uh more uh limitations
uh to the Some of you who are in Europe, like
those Czech countries, etc., that have way much
more freedom and nudity is more natural, more,
you know, akin to human people. They don't have
the many problems that are happening here in
the U .S. where the religious groups going to
extremes are, you know, making, you know. a lot
of pressure into policies, political information
and influence to block every kind, basically
to assign the obscenity, pornography tax to almost
everything that is being photographed, I think.
the the in some way the social media i mean the
the web 2 and web 3 elements probably twitter
x in this case has been a little more open to
nudity than other channels uh even though you
can get you know completely you know blocked
instantaneously with no explanation apparently
you know twitter is more lenient in that regard
than all the social media channels, Instagram,
etc. But I think the religious influence is,
like Aida or Maria were saying, it's a social
situation. It's more of a cultural problem because
I think everything is like a massive lack of
a healthy sex life. If you are living your life
with a natural sexual life, you know, this and
that, healthy with your couples, with your friends,
whatever you do. You don't suffer from this sexual
anorexia. You know, it's interesting. I have
a phrase in my presentation that says that sexual
anorexia is the same as sexual food. You are
desperate for the things you are trying to block.
Anorexics for food, food anorexics, they are
all the time thinking about food. It's dramatic.
And sexual anorexics are all the time thinking
about sex. And the only reason for that is the
lack of a... decent healthy natural sex life
that would you know sort out so many of their
issues in regards to nudity. But then this calamity
grows to levels, you know, that we're seeing
the powerful influence of these people, the Christian
radicals and all these groups into politics and
policy for life, and the arts are being affected
massively. I guess my take, my work has been
more accepted for galleries on IRL in real life
than actual online venues. And the little few
deals have been done online for me compared to
what I do on actual galleries and keeping the
thing real with people who love the beauty of
the body. There is no pornographic approach in
the things we're trying to do. We're trying to
show the beauty of human body, the way women
have advanced in society, have done so many amazing
changes in their own freedoms. And it all manifested
through the body in one way or the other. So
it's a constant fight. I have become like an
activist because of the same situation with censorship,
just like Aida or Maria and many others here.
So I invite everybody, you know, to keep pushing
it because we cannot let those people win, period.
We cannot let the art be blocked only because
they have sex problems in their personal lives.
thank you um thank you so much i'm fine at um
i feel like um i as i'm i'm not a nude photographer
here but like i used to think that um nude photographs
are actually more accepted in Web3 and on the
internet more than in real life. But it's really
nice to hear your opinion and hear that it's
actually accepted where you are from in galleries,
in real life, more than the Web3 space. online
um so i don't know much about this um it's maria
maria do you have anything to like input um to
what finance they said because um we are always
open to learning more about nude photography
and ways that it can always get better so um
i don't know if anyone has anything to put um
on what finance said but i also i also feel like
everyone should join in the facts in the fights
to compare and combat censorship because um Not
everybody understands how people are expressing
themselves with nude photographs people often
And I will not say generally people, just people
that are narrow minded or people that don't understand.
They often see it as an expression of pornography.
And I find it kind of funny. I will not say funny
in an offensive way. I just I actually do not
view it as a lack of sex activity or sexual activity.
So that's actually another interesting perspective.
So, Maria, if you have anything to say about
this, I would love to hear your opinion or any
other person. I think that everything is in our
like minds the boundaries and I think I'm agree
about if I'm sorry I can't repeat like if everything
is okay in sexuality and blah blah blah and I
totally agree with that because many people many
people think that it's like something no i can
it's something like wrong you're doing wrong
you are i don't know bad thing and everything
is because of society and in our minds and we
need to push new dart as much as possible just
to show people that it can be different and and
that everyone can try to be a model to like try
to open to yourself something new that just body
it's your body it's natural body there's nothing
wrong with that to take a picture to be a model
Like, I think I'm a little bit lost, lost line
of question. Okay, I wanted to ask another question
to Fine Art. Fine Art, so are you saying that
nudity is accepted more in real life, like nudity
art, than in the web, or like online, online?
Just for clarity. Yes, well, listen, at least
the NFT platforms are open to receiving the images,
the NFTs, and have them available for sale, etc.
And that part opens up a little extra space for
nude artists to show their work, no doubt. But
when you want to promote or talk about your pieces,
your work in the social media channels, then
that's when you get the limitations. Instagram
has become like a guillotine, you know, for these
kind of things. Sometimes some images pass and
go through with no problem. Some other artists
are being blocked with no explanation. And it
ends up being like a roulette. You don't know
if what you're publishing is going to happen.
have this negative impact on your channel. And
if you've been building a community, a group,
then it's risky just to throw all that away to
challenge the system. posting those images. That
kind of risk level is annoying. It's almost childish.
And at the end with AI basically being the eventual
judges at this point, the ones that are reviewing
the work, it becomes very dehumanized. So, you
know, when you go IRL and you meet with people,
you talk to people in person, you know, the discussions,
I mean, if they have no interest. they wouldn't
let you arrive to the point of a meeting, for
example. If you meet and you talk, I mean, there
is already a level of acceptance in the type
of work or the type of conversation you're going
to have about art, which is different, you know,
from what's happening unilaterally in social
media, in a moment in which they can block you
just because, with no explanation. They can even
reinstate you back with no explanation, no apologies,
no nothing. They just decide. to put you back
online. And these kind of situations, I think,
is the lack of human presence, the lack of human
interaction, what brings the problem. Listen,
the religious mix with the sexual thing is so
dramatic that there is a dramatic statistic from
Pornhub. I don't know if you know it. Pornhub
is one of the largest pornography sites in the
U .S. their servers the the numbers that they
have already registered indicate that the the
largest consumers of online porn live in what
is called the Bible Belt here in the US. The
Bible Belt being some of the states, you know,
from North Florida and some states in the center
area of the United States, which are supposed
to be the most religious ones, the most radically
religious people. And those are the states where
the largest amount of online porn is being consumed.
So that's the irony about these people. That's
the reason I allocate. so much weight to the
sex life part, the aspect of the sex life that
makes them so completely fanatic against nudity.
Thank you. Thank you, Fainat. That's a very important
take. It goes down to the question of what I
kind of asked Maria about. uh this in and out
as objectification which she answered so yeah
i really appreciate your take on that um yeah
i find that it was really really nice to see
like an interesting perspective and perspective
of nudity and like um vulcan said also nudity
as object objectification like we asked maria
and well i feel like um it just boils down to
the fact that everybody is doing what they can
to make sure make sure that um nudity as an art
is more acceptable in the society that we are
in, because it's a long, I would call it a long
fight. And I don't think humanity has gotten
there yet, but I feel like one day we'll eventually
get there. And Kamsi, do you have anything to
share with us? If you have anything to share,
you can share now. Hi. Good day, everybody. It's
quite an interesting topic that is going on here,
which is the topic of nudity. And I think for
the longest since the world got so much into
religion, nudity has always been existent in
art. I mean, if we all agree. i'm a spiritual
person so if we all agree if if you're a spiritual
person and then or if you're religious person
rather and you agree that there is a divine being
that created the world you know that the first
thing the first way we were created was without
guilt and my own way of seeing it is that's like
the way we were born and we were definitely going
to leave this earth and from time immemorial
artists have always had to work with nudity.
I mean, when you go to art classes and you're
being taught to sketch, one of the things you
want to learn first in your art classes is how
to sketch the human body in its natural form
before learning to add clothes to it. So the
whole, I think the whole idea to nudity being
something that should be censored or something
that should be frowned upon did not always exist
until we started having people that became too
religious and also for me personally I like to
say that if you if we can make art with the intention
to get somebody angry or to provoke someone,
right? To do something. Or we make art with the
intention to make someone cry or make someone
feel something, right? Why is it bad when someone
makes something to arouse somebody else or to
arouse the viewer? I mean, if it is okay for
us to make art that will make us feel... sad,
depressed, and the rest of that. Why is it not
okay for us to make works that would also arouse
us? I mean, loss is also a feeling. So why are
we shying away from it? And that's one of the
things too I tend to examine when I talk about
nude art. And I tell my friends that for me,
nude art is not just about exploring forms and
shapes and the rest like that. it's also about
exploring the erotic part of life too which is
not which is not even bad i don't know since
when i don't know what started making us think
that when there is a mention of the word eroticism
it's that automatically but and then a friend
of mine asked me this question he said do you
think that in this age and time if um michelangelo
sculpted on someone's ass and kept it in a gallery
do you think it's going to sell for so much amount
and after so much dedication on it we found that
truly it's going to actually it's going to actually
like be called the masterpiece and at the end
of the day you just see that it is the emerging
creators or the emerging artists in the new field
that gets to like bear most of this role ah no
it is not something we should see it is something
that shouldn't be talked about but yeah aside
from seeing new art apps the exploration of forms
state and also the way we came to this world
right i also tend to see nude art too i've also
had the exploration of the erotic side of humanity
right and i there was a question that was true
which is the difference between how was the line
between objectification and using the body as
a muse for the art and for me personally it was
the way the question was answered is actually
brilliant I think at the end of the day it's
more of the treatment of the subject how the
intention I think Maria said is more of the intention
And I agree with her too. It's the intention
behind it and also the treatment of subject.
One of the most controversial paintings in the
world is a painting called Madame X by John Singer
Sargent. Was it John Singer Sargent? Yeah, I
think that's his name. The painting was so controversial
that people had... the subject rather had to
be um what was this thing called when you kiss
people away from the society ex ex i think it's
exiled yes exactly had to be exiled from the
society because people felt that the work was
too erotic and trust me when you see it's actually
an erotic work by the way but when you see the
work that you're looking at The woman was actually
clothed from top to bottom. The only thing that
was off about it is the fact that one of the
straps of her gown was brought down. And that
was the most horrific thing. It caused so much
loss that they had to exile that woman from society.
so at the end of it and then you can there's
also a work i can't remember who painted it and
the title of the work is lost love love locked
out there was a new painting of um um wasn't
of this baby that represents love cupid yes cupid
was banging at the door and he was crying you
could literally see um the vases and this of
flower broken and when you read the story of
how the work was painted you would get you would
shed tears and so when you look at these two
things and i compare them side by side one is
a nude um walk in in the time that the cupid
was actually naked there and then the other one
is a crooked woman right well based on the treatment
of the subject one is considered the one with
clothes is considered to be erotic while the
other one without without clothes is actually
considered to be um a sad a melancholic art right
and this just goes on to prove the point that
at the end of the day it's more about the intention
and the story behind what you're making than
how much clothes does the person have fun yeah
so that's that's my point and my take on nudity
and nudity per se thank you so much kamzi and
once again i love that each and every one of
the nude photographers here have different opinions
and um them not i will not say different um although
it's different opinions i will not say they are
very they vary from each other and it's just
like it's basically i'll call it an eye -opener
for each and every one of us here especially
us um we that are not like into nude photographing
um it's us just learning more about um the world
of nudity and i also love the point that um as
he said on um it just being like how i i like
the part that he said that oh the person was
exiled for just um the gown plant is he part
of the groundbreaking or something like that
and i just basically in my own opinion or what
i've learned basically that um nudity just sums
up to how we see it and people have different
opinion of um what nudity is basically and um
i feel like it's just um sometimes people feel
like just showing a bit of skin is considered
nude and i feel like um the different artists
here uses as a mood of um self -expression it
grows beyond being nudity and just being art
and just being them giving nudity meaning that
is so rightly deserved and I I lucky wish that
we don't have as much constraints placed on nudity
because it's wonderful and I feel like as tamzy
um rightly said that if michael angelo like painted
an ass rock or like molded um a butt it would
sell for uh much and i feel like okay after he
said that he got me thinking that is it that
um the person that makes the art um is it that
um we view art differently based on who makes
the art or like um will nudity be more acceptable
right now if it was all those famous artists
of the past like if they were really into nudity
do you think that nudity would be like really
really acceptable now can anyone answer like
it's like a conversation like if famous artists
of the past come back today now and they are
really super into nudity do we think that nudity
should be like accepted more than it is accepted
right now Kamsi you can like feel free to like
answer like okay so personally i do think i don't
think it's about um uh i think it's about also
who's painting by the way and it's not as regards
to the artist it's more like we human beings
have these double standards for like a lot of
things so the the thing that we would share the
thing that most people are going to like shy
away from saying or the thing that they are going
to cause art if it is someone that is growing
doing it when someone when you're able to like
break through that barrier and now i'm speaking
from i'm speaking from my understanding as a
nude artist in lagos and do that right i maybe
it's quite different when i mean either ada spoke
about how um it's quite different in prague um
being a nude artist but Being in Africa and deciding
that what you want to do is to work with the
human body. That's like another whole war under
the sun. And yeah, I do feel that people would
actually accept it if it was a big artist. Let's
not even go so far as to start talking about
Michelangelo. Let's talk about, say, Sloane.
or Irinzi or all of these like top painters in
Nigeria if they are the ones that were like painting
UDT like yeah sure sure sure and as far as they're
able to like as far as they see that oh my god
after that are like accepting it and that's the
thing about that and that thing about this the
art in in this particular culture that I find
myself um again i'm speaking from like a personal
perspective right um there is always this need
for the big guys to accept these things first
before then the people are the other the people
on the bottom be like okay if the big guys can
accept it which are like the galleries if you
guys can accept it okay fine that means you can
go on with it and that's where the whole double
standards coming so because these artists are
already like big if they are painting it it's
quite like okay they are big artists so do you
really know what art is Maybe this one is just
as serious with his life. This particular one
that does grow is just as serious with his life.
And that's how I view it. And that's what I most
think is definitely going to happen is grandmasters
come back and then they start painting just nude
works. And again, they actually did paint mostly
nude works too back then. But yeah, that's my
own take. I don't know if I not have something
else. Fine, do you have anything to add? Well,
I think I may agree with many of the things he
said. And the point is... The subjectivity is
the real clue here. The point that everybody,
the reading that you make of any image is linked
to your knowledge, to your culture, to your beliefs,
to your fears, to everything that makes you.
And then the interpretation of the work is going
to change from one person to the other, to the
other a million times. So the artist... uh as
artists as creators cannot be thinking about
this i mean the i have to work with the things
that i love to do and and i only do it because
i love you know the the what i'm what i'm achieving
uh and then people come and and you can hear
So many different interpretations. Some people
think some images are creepy or mysterious or
haunting. I did a work on flowers and another
photographer friend of mine told me that those
images are the most erotic ones I have done.
And there was no remote intention of being erotic.
while photographing flowers so it's his for me
it is his interpretation of the work and and
i you know i have no control over that uh so
you know if probably you ask when you're asking
about famous people doing doing nudity they have
i mean well -known artists just involve nudity
as the natural part of their work and and then
uh you know it is being accepted as normal uh
and even at that listen here i think the problem
is the the the way people capture the image how
process the image because uh here uh in a school
here in the us in the state of florida One mother
made a formal protest that she was complaining
that one teacher was showing the David, the Michelangelo
statue, the David, in the school, and the teacher
was expelled from the school only for showing
the art of Michelangelo, the statue of David.
So, you know, you have to have a very twisted
mind to feel that that statue is pornographic.
But, you know, that's the way she took it. And
then she issued a complaint. And the professor
who was showing that in classroom was expelled
from his work. So there's no way you can control
how people see the work that you're doing. regardless
of your intention. I mean, of course, if you're
being explicit in showcasing the body, well,
there is an obvious intention of trying to be
aroused or to arouse people towards an erotic
feeling or something. But most of us are being
very careful not to be explicit precisely because
that's, let's say, a simple way, a relatively
simple way of separating what would be an homage
to the body. than compared to just showcasing
a gynecological view of the body. So there's
a very big difference between one approach and
the other. And then the intention of the creator
obviously has an impact on the viewer. But if
you're not trying to be gynecological... then
there is a secondary levels of readings, the
different layers in the image that a lot of people
just don't see it or don't believe in that or
don't accept them. And the creator cannot control
that. It's a matter of you doing whatever you
love and showcasing it to the world and see how
people react. You don't have no control whatsoever
on how people see your work. Thank you. Thank
you so much, Fine Art and Kamzi. Your insight
to this was well received. We really love learning
from you guys. You guys give different insights
to nudity and to how it is received, basically,
and how people receive it based on who created
it, basically. And I thank you guys for inputting
to the space and joining the space. Yeah, thank
you so much for joining the space and contributing
to it. And yeah, we've come to the end of Art
on Frames, season two, episode one, that talks
about art, nudity, and censorship. And I hope
each and every one of you learned a lot from
the different artists that spoke and had to contribute.
And I hope we can all learn to love ourselves
and take nude photographs of ourselves. Yeah,
just keep expressing yourself. And I hope we
see you next episode. Thank you so much, Faina.
Thank you, Kamzi. Thank you, Aida. And thank
you, Maria, for joining us. I'm still your co
-host, Kafani. And the host is Vulcan. Over to
you, Vulcan. Thank you guys so much. Thank you,
everyone. And also, you can tune in the podcast
on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or anywhere you listen
to your podcast. Thank you, guys. Thank you very
much for the space.