1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:08,640 Hey, welcome back everybody. This is the Justin and Heidi unfiltered podcast. I am Justin 2 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:16,240 and I'm Heidi. We are your hosts. Thanks so much for listening. Appreciate you tuning in. 3 00:00:16,240 --> 00:00:24,780 We started talking last week about something is off air quotes, why we ignore relationship 4 00:00:24,780 --> 00:00:32,680 red flags. We introduced betrayal blindness from Dr. Freyd and we talked about red flags 5 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:43,000 that you've noticed in our relationship and answered some heavy questions. And it was 6 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:49,300 great, a good episode and we're going to continue the discussion. So this is part two, part 7 00:00:49,300 --> 00:00:59,600 two of two maybe, but it could be three. Probably not three. Okay, so now we're going to talk 8 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:06,360 about some psychological reasons behind ignoring red flags. Kind of discuss why we choose to 9 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:14,920 ignore. So there's, I've listed five reasons and you feel free to jump in at any point 10 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:22,640 if any of these relate to you or speak to you. Betrayal blindness is the fifth one, 11 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:29,720 which I think is where most of it lies. But five reasons for the psychological reasons 12 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:37,640 behind ignoring red flags. Number one, fear of conflict or the unknown, desire to maintain 13 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:50,400 the status quo. Hope that things will improve on their own. I did that a lot. I didn't want 14 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:55,280 to face reality because I was, I guess the first one and the third one, I was afraid 15 00:01:55,280 --> 00:02:00,080 of what could happen. I would just hope that things would go back to normal on their own 16 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:10,840 and that things would be okay without really addressing them. And just laugh. I know now 17 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:21,440 that the only way to have true resolutions is just to talk about everything. Yeah, but 18 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:27,360 I mean, I didn't necessarily deal with the red flags either. I was maintaining the status 19 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:36,800 quo. Yeah. I mean, there's a part of me and I've said this our whole marriage, I knew 20 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:40,320 how I married when I married you. It's not like I was, so I don't know if I would say 21 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:49,480 it was a red flag. Okay. I just had a thought if, if it weren't for our religious beliefs 22 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:58,280 and in our connection to what we believe will happen after this life, like being married 23 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:04,240 for eternity, going through what we went through, how long would we have lasted without that 24 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:09,240 religious connection? Here's what's funny though, because of our religious connection 25 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:17,200 is why we view pornography in the way we view it. Go on. If we didn't have a religious connection 26 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:21,360 or if we didn't believe in God or if we didn't believe, why would we care that that's what 27 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:26,960 we wouldn't or not? If you wouldn't be per se, the issue in our marriage, you don't think 28 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:39,000 so. I don't think you would be under the influence of you needing to hide it like you did. Ooh, 29 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:46,760 that's a good point. Yeah. I mean, hypotheticals can be dangerous either way. So I was kind 30 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:55,500 of even joking, but, but that's a, that's a good point. It's a very good point. Okay. 31 00:03:55,500 --> 00:03:59,700 So the fourth psychological reason that I put down here was self doubt and minimizing 32 00:03:59,700 --> 00:04:09,200 concerns. Maybe, I don't, maybe this feeling isn't right. I should just trust them and 33 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:14,340 minimizing concerns. That's one. And then of course, betrayal blindness, the tendency 34 00:04:14,340 --> 00:04:19,600 to overlook betrayals to protect important relationships. And that was the way that I 35 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:25,680 understand it from the article that we read two weeks ago and the other article we read 36 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:31,960 tonight. I see it as it's almost subconscious. It doesn't mean that there's not a decision 37 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:39,400 that's made, but I still feel a lot of it is subconscious and it's a coping mechanism. 38 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:47,960 And she even connected it to, to the freeze response, like fight or flight or freeze. 39 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:55,200 When you're in, in the mode where you have, where a response is going to be triggered 40 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:59,480 and that she connects to the freeze, which I don't see from you very often. You're not 41 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:04,600 a freeze kind of person, but I do, I do see where she's coming from and why this is connected 42 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:15,080 to that because it's our ability to just say, I'm sure it's fine. Push it aside and not 43 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:21,560 have to face the reality of it. And in some cases, in my opinion, I think you were forced 44 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:29,280 to do that because you didn't have a willing partner who would be honest with you. Right. 45 00:05:29,280 --> 00:05:33,680 But that's where I, that's where I questioned the betrayal blindness kind of thing. Yeah. 46 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:39,240 And that's, we talked about that last episode too. There's, I think, but that's, that's 47 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:44,720 the interesting thing about the psychology is that it's, it's not black or white. Right. 48 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:53,920 There's lots of gray area. Everybody's situation is different, but this idea of betrayal blindness 49 00:05:53,920 --> 00:06:03,240 was captivating. It was very intriguing. And we're of course sharing our experiences, but 50 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:09,720 what I've noticed, the next thing we're talking about is societal pressures and expectations 51 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:16,840 and how they can contribute to denial or betrayal blindness. I've seen this depicted in shows, 52 00:06:16,840 --> 00:06:23,940 TV shows and movies and in relationships of people that I've met. And I see it as it's 53 00:06:23,940 --> 00:06:29,960 almost a societal norm and getting more normal every day. Right. Like what we see on the 54 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:35,960 TV now that our kids watch would have never been on TV, even when we were their age. Right. 55 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:42,040 But there's always going to be examples of that convinced people of the opposite, like 56 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:47,680 things that you can get away with with the 70s, that show in the seventies that that 57 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:52,740 big guy that smoked a cigar and sat in a chair in his front, our Arty bunker, he would say 58 00:06:52,740 --> 00:07:01,280 things like the derogatory homosexual word, the F word. And people replay that and they 59 00:07:01,280 --> 00:07:10,360 say, no, we're a lot more strict now. No, a couple of specific things we've gone a different 60 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:18,760 way on, but in general media has become kind of filthy to a point where it's just normal 61 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:25,480 now to hear and see things that are just, that should be abhorrent or was a parent. 62 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:30,360 But why, I guess that's where I, that's where I question the societal norms and the things 63 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:40,480 that society tells us. But why is it important? Why should it be important? My first thought 64 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:46,600 goes back to your faith. I mean, like you said a minute ago, if it weren't for our faith, 65 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:52,600 if I, if I didn't have the faith system that I have, you know, maybe none of it would be 66 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:59,160 a parent to me. But you also wouldn't have been hiding it. Right. And I'm not saying 67 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:04,900 that, oh, just because we believe in the religion we believe in and they've very much made you 68 00:08:04,900 --> 00:08:11,240 feel bad for even touching your own body, which is a little important. Yeah, that's dumb. 69 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:18,080 And if we weren't in that and you didn't feel the need to have to hide that you, that you 70 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:27,120 see or view porn, don't get me wrong. I still think pornography is damaging to a relationship 71 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:35,580 no matter what, because it brings in this fantasy aspect, this, this unattainable sense 72 00:08:35,580 --> 00:08:40,280 of that's what sex is. That's what, that's what a true relationship is. Like I'm watching 73 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:44,880 the, these reality TV shows and you know, the guy's getting married at first sight or 74 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:49,000 whatever and he's saying, I've never been in love. Well, you've never been in the love 75 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:57,840 that you saw on TV that they depicted as love. Right. But that's not love. That's not true. 76 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:05,240 So that's where the society norms start to really irritate me because who, because 10 77 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:11,000 people agree that's now that's now what it is. But what if a hundred people disagree? 78 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:18,200 Yeah. But because 10 people agree and they were able to get it going, that's now like, 79 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:23,160 that's okay. That's the norm. Well, and we kind of beat the societal norm too with our 80 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:30,480 marriage and courtship because we, I mean, I know the stereotype of Mormons are one thing, 81 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:38,640 but we still, we got married pretty quick. I mean, we, we dated first date was Valentine's 82 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:45,840 day. I proposed on April Fool's day and we were married in August, four months later, 83 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:53,000 Labor Day weekend. Right. But then we like them holidays. We do like them holidays. But 84 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:59,320 we, I mean, we've been married 21 years and some could argue we've been through a lot 85 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:03,840 and maybe if we'd courted each other longer, it wouldn't happen. But I don't buy into that. 86 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:08,640 Yeah. I don't think it would have changed much. No, I think we made, we absolutely made 87 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:14,600 the right decision, but that's also been one of my motivations for continuing when I felt 88 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:23,100 like maybe it was, it had reached its end and it comes down to core beliefs. My core 89 00:10:23,100 --> 00:10:30,280 beliefs are family. Family's always been up there. I feel like core beliefs change here 90 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:39,720 and there, but family's always been important to me. And crap, where was I going to go? 91 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:48,280 Oh, things that I don't like on TV. One of the, one of my major things that I find, some 92 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:53,800 people would call it offensive. I just think I don't like watching it is depictions of 93 00:10:53,800 --> 00:11:04,520 cheating. Stories that show characters cheating and it's written. It's a scripted thing. And 94 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:11,460 the worst is when it's, it's told in jest and like it's funny. I hate that. I've never 95 00:11:11,460 --> 00:11:24,060 liked it. And another thing is when, when shows depict Jesus or God and it's a joke, 96 00:11:24,060 --> 00:11:30,120 you know, like for whatever reason, these later seasons of the Simpsons, you know, I 97 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:36,080 love the Simpsons. It's just more and more episodes where they're bringing in their character 98 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:42,840 of Jesus and he's dancing around and being funny and doing stupid stuff. I mean, that's 99 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:50,760 just, it's sacred to me. So I don't like it. What's my reaction? I clicked next episode 100 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:56,040 and I don't see what's in that episode because it's not the end of the world. Well, my point 101 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:59,680 is that that kind of stuff has always been important to me. I don't like watching it. 102 00:11:59,680 --> 00:12:12,760 But you'll be born. Isn't that funny? Yeah, it's very right. Right. So there's, there's 103 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:20,280 still a connection to core values, but there's something that still drives that decision 104 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:28,240 to use pornography. There's still that decision for, for good, well-meaning people to decide 105 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:36,280 to go and drink. And it's not just social drinking, but like drink way too much. There's 106 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:43,560 still decision for people who take drugs, do meth, do coke. Like it doesn't mean that 107 00:12:43,560 --> 00:12:48,920 the person doesn't have core beliefs, but there's different, there's a separation. Right. 108 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:55,040 No, I, that, I think that's the interesting thing is, this has just been my own personal 109 00:12:55,040 --> 00:13:03,760 experience. I do believe everyone has a core belief, but there is a part of them that knows 110 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:10,000 they're not living one of their cores to the fullest. Yeah. That then they do something 111 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:21,280 else. Yeah. That's a parent. That's also not right. And in, in it's so funny because two 112 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:28,000 wrongs don't make a right, but in some weird way, it's just, it's Satan. That's the tools 113 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:34,320 that he uses. Well, you've already done this. You're already not doing this far. You might 114 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:39,560 as well. Let's push that button. Is that, is it drinking? Is it drugs? Is it porn? Is 115 00:13:39,560 --> 00:13:47,320 it what else can I do that is of my world? Yeah. That's why you're, when you said that 116 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:52,560 a second ago, you know, I'm talking about my core beliefs and how I don't like seeing 117 00:13:52,560 --> 00:13:57,960 certain things on TV and your comment was, Oh, but you'll view porn. I understand your 118 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:04,400 comment. I get it. It's just not that simple. Right. But that's where I find it interesting 119 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:10,800 because in our years of marriage, and I can only go off of our interactions, but I would 120 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:16,440 imagine like you learned in group therapy, none of us are unique. We might not all do 121 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:22,480 the exact same A through C, but we all, there is somebody out there that has done the same 122 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:26,800 things. You're not special. Yeah. Yeah. You're, you're not unique. You're not special. There's 123 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:31,280 somebody else who there are a thousand other people who've done that same exact thing. 124 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:42,480 Right. I find it the most interesting that you would judge others so heavily and so readily 125 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:49,640 more so than like I would. Yeah. Being judgmental was a big thing for me. Huge. And it's tied 126 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:54,760 to one of those. It might, I think it's uniqueness. Just being overly judgmental. It might be 127 00:14:54,760 --> 00:15:00,720 narcissism. I can't remember which one, but go on. But I do find that very interesting 128 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:08,560 that like you at your core know you aren't living your full values, the things that really 129 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:12,480 make you who you are. And you know, you're making the wrong choices. You know, you're 130 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:20,880 not doing the right things per se. Yeah. According to what you believe is right. And then you'll 131 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:27,280 skip an episode on the Simpsons because they're taking one of those other core beliefs and 132 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:32,160 making fun of it. You'll yell at the driver in front of you because he cut you off when 133 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:42,160 you did it to the driver three or three cars back. Hey, now. Hey, hey. I find that fascinating. 134 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:48,160 I find it fascinating watching how people interact. And that's the thing with the societal 135 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:53,280 norms. And that's where I start to really start to dig in and just go, this is fascinating 136 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:58,840 to me because I don't think anything is wrong per se. We're all down here to learn. We're 137 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:05,000 all down here to make choices. We're all down here to see what fits our life best. But at 138 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:14,280 the end of the day, what are we doing it for? Yeah. Why are we? Why do we care about our 139 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:18,680 religion going to the church we go to and the, and believing in the things we do? Yeah. 140 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:24,480 I know why I do. Right. And that will keep me going that way. That that's a strong connection 141 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:28,480 to your core beliefs, strong connection to my core beliefs. And that is when it's like, 142 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:32,880 when I'm faced with a choice, it's really easy for me to make that choice. Do I make 143 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:38,080 the right one every time? No, no, I don't. But I almost always immediately know when 144 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:46,440 I haven't made the right one. And I try to remedy it, what to make it better. What you're 145 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:53,520 describing is a healthy person, I think a healthy response to things, to choices. And 146 00:16:53,520 --> 00:17:02,000 so to answer your fascination, I had two thoughts. One is that it's symptomatic. My responses 147 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:08,680 to things and why I can view one thing one way and be but yet live this other way, right 148 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:16,800 and live another it's symptomatic because I have chosen to act out as a response to 149 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:24,640 stressors in my life. And the symptoms or the what do you get from medication side effect 150 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:31,280 of that one of the side effects of that is an inability to function properly with your 151 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:38,320 brain, especially with certain drugs and with pornography because drugs and pornography 152 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:45,440 affect your brain the same way at different heights. I understand cocaine does more, but 153 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:51,000 the neurotransmitters that are creating pathways in your brain with pornography can be the 154 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:56,360 same way. Right. Just not saying it's the same thing. Make sure we so anyway, so a lot 155 00:17:56,360 --> 00:18:03,760 of those they're symptomatic for the thing that I'm doing to myself. But also now that 156 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:14,200 I'm 170 days sober now, and I have do you know, can you not call me out on that right 157 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:20,520 now? Because no, I don't. And I hope she's not listening. She called me out. No, it's 158 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:26,600 around 170 days. And I can be better at that. I know. But here's the thing about having 159 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:43,720 a clean brain for almost six months. 180 Yeah, almost six months. My brain is is clean from 160 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:49,240 the effects of pornography. And if you don't understand really why that's important, you 161 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:55,040 need to do a little bit of research that the stuff that listen to our last four episodes 162 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:59,720 ago. Oh my gosh, we could do 10 more episodes on on how the neurotransmitters affect your 163 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:07,560 brain when you look at pornography like your brain is not clean. But with a clean brain, 164 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:13,440 I can look back and now when I'm getting mad at the person in front of me who cut me off, 165 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:21,400 okay, hear me out. The irony is not lost on me that I just did it to the person behind 166 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:33,560 me. In my mind. That's a big step. Okay. I still am doing the thing. But the pathway 167 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:46,240 is clear in my brain and I'm seeing Oh, I did that. The difference is profound tunnel 168 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:53,240 vision. I can't see that thing that I did behind me. This is more important. What's 169 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:59,040 happening to me right now is more important. That's all I can focus on. But that's that's 170 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:03,960 the interesting thing about when you are addicted to something and I think this is true for 171 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:13,800 anyone who's addicted to something. It's about me. Yes. It's about what's happening to me. 172 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:25,920 And that's why I use what I use. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's a very I mean, addictions and habits 173 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:34,280 are very selfish in nature, I think meant to be. So yeah, you're not you're not wrong. 174 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:38,680 But the problem is that it's a cycle. And the more you get into it, the stronger that 175 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:42,240 is so the stronger your selfishness. So these little things that I would miss around the 176 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:49,400 house, how can I forget something like that? Well, duh, because it wasn't about you. Right. 177 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:54,160 Whereas same with our arguments when I would get after you for something like that. And 178 00:20:54,160 --> 00:21:03,440 be like, Whoa, you don't get to treat me like this. I'm not going to take this abuse. Idiot. 179 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:12,200 But you did see yourself. You were being attacked. Right. And not being treated as an equal. 180 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:22,400 Yeah, dumb. But that's how that's how far you can get convinced of yourself when you 181 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:28,280 when you allow these behavioral things to become so much a part of you. And when you 182 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:37,000 let your thought distortions become truth. That's what the world looks like. And it's 183 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:46,560 not worth it. This is hard. Honesty. Honesty is hard. Yeah, when you try it out for the 184 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:52,800 first time in 44 years. See another one of those, you know, like first of all, was I 185 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:59,080 lying in the womb? Like, bro, why don't you calm down? But also, that's not gonna offend 186 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:13,320 me. Were you kind of a jerk for saying it? Yeah, objectively. Let's talk about the consequences 187 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:21,360 of ignoring red flags. Unless you had something else. Okay. So I wrote down a couple of consequences 188 00:22:21,360 --> 00:22:29,680 like an escalation of problems. I think we saw that in the last several years as my as 189 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:37,120 my use became more regular. My anxiety was more heightened. And then we added other things 190 00:22:37,120 --> 00:22:43,280 like losing the job. And then just the scales were tipped. And I wasn't even before you 191 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:48,240 lost your job. It was changing jobs, right? Changing jobs and then working from home and 192 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:55,760 then COVID COVID and then kids being at home. Yeah, school home, right. And then I mean, 193 00:22:55,760 --> 00:23:02,200 all those things. I was not mentally equipped to handle it. But those are also things where 194 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:10,560 that's why it went as long as it did. Yes, I agree. So an escalation of problems, very 195 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:19,480 common potential consequence of ignoring red flags, erosion of trust and intimacy. If you're 196 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:24,160 comfortable talking about this, the intimacy part, so the erosion of trust, we've I think 197 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:32,240 we've covered that the erosion of intimacy, I think is two prongs. One, intimacy to me 198 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:39,000 was only sex. And that that's what intimacy was. And now I'm learning it's so much more 199 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:50,040 than that. And it's also so much better. And the frequency of sex is different now. But 200 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:57,160 it's our overall intimacy is is so much greater. I've never been happier with our intimacy. 201 00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:09,640 It's only been six months. But there was also many times when sex was just off. It wasn't 202 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:15,760 as satisfying. And I can tell you, I there were some times that I wasn't sure why. But 203 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:23,520 for the most part, I knew why there was something off between us. And I was not doing what I 204 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:29,040 should. I wasn't trying to face it. I wasn't being honest about it. I was ignoring it. 205 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:36,200 No, because sex without intimacy, intimacy is just sex. It is just sex. And what's the 206 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:43,280 difference between sex and just masturbation? Not much. I've come to realize that the emotional 207 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:51,400 connection makes such a difference. And you can't have that in a dishonest relationship. 208 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:55,320 They can't they can't coincide our bodies are I mean, take the religious aspect out 209 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:59,040 of it. I can tell you why I think that is, is God created us to be able to connect with 210 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:04,760 one another, be honest, take the religious aspect out of it. Fine. That's not how our 211 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:12,020 minds work. Our minds are incredible thing. Our brains are incredible. We can learn to 212 00:25:12,020 --> 00:25:17,920 connect with another human being. And our brain is inside us. And it can somehow connect 213 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:27,520 with the brain of another person. It's meant to do that. And when you add in dishonesty, 214 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:33,980 there's not an emotional connection. There's a wall. There is a wall. And that that leads 215 00:25:33,980 --> 00:25:40,320 to the next one as well, prolonged emotional distress. And my so like when I said my inability 216 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:45,780 to cope or handle mentally the issues that I was going through, I'd never addressed how 217 00:25:45,780 --> 00:25:52,480 to handle my anxieties. Because I'd never gone to therapy, I'd never talked through 218 00:25:52,480 --> 00:26:02,260 my issues, I just bottled it up, or I was dishonest, or I said just enough to get by. 219 00:26:02,260 --> 00:26:08,360 And that was it. And then the last thing I put down was missed opportunities for growth 220 00:26:08,360 --> 00:26:18,800 and change. And I'm not I'm, I don't think that we should spend time in shame. But I 221 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:26,420 still struggle with that. I am really ashamed of my choices. But this one hurts the missed 222 00:26:26,420 --> 00:26:30,440 opportunities for growth and change. Because if I'm sitting here, and I don't think to 223 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:37,360 flip my rubber band, I will think about 20 years, how many times I've wasted an opportunity 224 00:26:37,360 --> 00:26:44,440 to grow and change. That hurts. It sucks. 225 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:52,040 Yeah, I mean, that's, that is, it's always gonna hurt. It's always gonna suck. But that's, 226 00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:53,360 how is that productive? 227 00:26:53,360 --> 00:26:56,160 Right, sitting in shame? 228 00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:59,120 How does that how does that change? I mean, how does that change anything? 229 00:26:59,120 --> 00:27:00,120 Right. 230 00:27:00,120 --> 00:27:04,800 It doesn't change anything. It actually puts you more back into a vulnerable state to go 231 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:09,760 right back to doing what you were doing. That's why when you aren't living those core values, 232 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:14,200 that's why it's so easy for you to do something that you would find a poor and otherwise. 233 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:22,200 Yeah. Now I see the connection again back to our faith system and the gospel. Just my 234 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:28,560 view of this, when you're in the throes of deceit, Satan wants you to continue to do 235 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:37,360 that. He he thrives when you are doing the opposite of thriving, when you're miserable. 236 00:27:37,360 --> 00:27:44,780 He never stops though. So when you face reality, and you come clean, and you then are thinking 237 00:27:44,780 --> 00:27:50,600 about all the things you've done wrong, he's right back. Which I think is where a lot of 238 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:55,000 people lose their way. Because they've just done this really hard thing and they're doing 239 00:27:55,000 --> 00:28:03,480 great. But now I have to face the reality of my actions. Now I have shame and the cycle 240 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:13,600 repeats and it sucks. Which is why I think you've got to develop a healthy understanding 241 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:29,000 of the difference between shame and regret. Or shame and being sorry and get better. We 242 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:39,400 say in therapy, let go and let God. The past and one of our apostles, I believe it was 243 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:48,280 Boyd K Packers, well known for saying, the past is to be learned from not lived in. And 244 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:55,200 addicts and people who struggle with emotional distress have a hard time differentiating 245 00:28:55,200 --> 00:29:04,440 that because the past is painful. And if I'm thinking about it, then it hurts. And I think 246 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:10,200 you have to have a healthy brain to be able to look at the past and say, yeah, it sucks 247 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:19,200 that I did that. But look where I am now. Good still may have come from it. I think 248 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:23,960 honestly good always comes from it. Because if nothing else, you've learned something. 249 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:31,400 That's fair. I would agree with that. I have a great job. We have a place in our marriage 250 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:37,720 where we have learned how to communicate with each other. We have three terrific kids. Well, 251 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:47,440 two and another one. We have like I can't go so long without telling a joke. I can't 252 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:55,200 stop myself. Okay. Anyway, great kids. Got a great home. A lot of great things have come 253 00:29:55,200 --> 00:30:03,040 from our lives in the last 20 years. Yeah. So even if there was deception in there, even 254 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:07,920 if there was more that you could have done, even if there was a different way of living 255 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:18,600 that life, it doesn't matter because you didn't. But what matters is what do we do from here? 256 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:28,760 Right. What do we do from here? I think that's an absolutely beautiful and poignant way to 257 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:40,920 end the episode and this topic. Get to a point where you can just accept what has happened 258 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:48,760 and make the decision where are we going to go from here? What's next instead of what 259 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:53,360 have you done? Right. Because if you look back on what have you done and so nobody can 260 00:30:53,360 --> 00:31:01,640 love you, nobody can like you, nobody, whatever it is. What purpose does that serve? You said 261 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:09,360 it a few minutes ago. Yeah. What does that do? Right. And this is where we bring it back. 262 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:13,360 We have all, none of us are unique. We have all been there. We've all made bad choices. 263 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:25,360 We've all done dumb things. You got to move on. Yeah. You got to let go and let go. I 264 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:30,720 agree. I've been looking at the analytics of our show. I know people are listening. 265 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:37,320 We get a couple of downloads every day and it's great. Thank you all so much for listening. 266 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:42,640 Wherever you are listening, whatever platform you're choosing, would you do us a favor? 267 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:48,480 Could you just rate us? If your platform allows you, like Apple Music gives you the option 268 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:56,640 to rate, we would sure love to get a little more exposure and that comes from rating. 269 00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:02,560 So you have taken the time to listen to us. I can't tell you how grateful we are for that. 270 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:07,560 We're going to continue to share our life experiences because this is really healthy 271 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:19,960 for us. And excuse me, it's really healthy for me. And we might be able to help somebody 272 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:28,200 else make a different choice. You know? So anyway, that was unscripted. Sorry. Thanks 273 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:32,560 so much for listening and we'll see you next week. Goodbye.