Hey everybody, welcome back. This is the Justin and Heidi unfiltered podcast. I'm Justin and I'm Heidi and that's bear
Sleeping on my lap actually been quiet
None of his antics are on the recorded one we deleted that recording. Mm-hmm
What a punk I
Mean he'll go hours and hours and hours just walking around and blah blah blah and we start recording and he's like
I'm gonna get my really loud toy. I'll be right back
Anyway
So thanks for her. Thanks for joining us. Thanks for listening. We are talking about
mainly addiction but also just
things that we've gone through in our in our marriage and in our lives and
Right now we're talking about
The event that happened a few months ago
I lost my job. Hi. Hi, Edi other dog
We had our big blow up and
The last thing we were talking about on our podcast was communication
so
I think there was a spike when you picked him up
I'm just upset that they always just go to you. I'm over here like
Unless I have a bribe
Rude so anyway
Communication. Yeah. Well, so like we kind of ended off with I
Don't know where we ended up I think we're talking about level of communication before
Like we'd have moments where we were good. Mm-hmm, but I
Don't know what I thought when you were saying that is
Now it's better like the good better best kind of thing. Well, I think now I'm just more in tune and like
When I'm feeling off
I've just gotten better not trusting you and just going back
Something's off. We're gonna talk about it now
Whereas do we but but as before I'd be like no nothing thought I mean I feel off but
He's telling me and he's showing me and so it just must be I must be wrong
My intuition must be off. Well, guess what ladies every intuitions never off
So no, don't ever don't ever misjudge that but we got to that because of half-truths
I would I would
Answer your questions and I give you half-truths because it worked. It was the bare minimum
One of the main things that we talk about in our group therapy is a half-truth is a full lie
I have truth as a whole lie
So now when something's off and you confront me and we talk I know the very best course of action is to talk
Yeah, so but we we definitely wouldn't have gotten to that point had you not been in therapy
Right, and had you not done and you'd done therapy before because this was not the first time in our marriage that we've gone through
rock bottom
No, this is the second time and there's just so much to say for it because
There are a lot of therapeutic things that we can do as humans, but when I say therapy
I mean, I started seeing a licensed
professional counselor and I
Mean they're trained
to do this
you know and they
Yeah, well, and I think the funny thing the funny thing we humans do is
We think we're so unique and we are we're unique people
But for everything you do, there's another thousand people that do the same thing
It's so funny the the cognitive distortion or the thinking barrier that we talked about
In I don't remember if I told you this even you didn't for week eight for this last group therapy
The the thinking barriers uniqueness
That's what we discussed and
Sort of riddle think we're unique. We're going through all the things of
When you're when you're addicted and you struggle with this uniqueness
She's rattling off
all the signs
You're like, that's me. How did you know that?
I have I don't have to oh, I do have that. Yep. That's me. That's me. That's how'd you know that?
I'm but I'm unique. Nobody knows this but me right? Yeah, cuz there's a fine line
I mean, there's nothing wrong with saying you're special
You know you you can do great things that can be very empowering
But it can't just be a blind piece of wisdom
That's just taken for everything
Because you're not unique in this way. I
was not
Alone in my addiction. I was not the only person who'd ever gone through this. I was not the only one
I was not the only one who felt like I could never return to a god
And ask for his forgiveness I I can't be honest with my wife after what I've done
So stupid
Because then those those bring with it so many other things that are only I mean there's there's narcissism that comes with it because
I'm I'm unique. Don't you know who I am?
Fortunately, I know that was not something I ran into very often
But the thing about being more
More more honest being your true self
Is how much easier it is to see it?
You know the people mm-hmm and there's another fine line because you don't want to be judgmental right?
But what I'm learning is that when I'm picking up on those vides
And I'm thinking this person like
Really do she vibes
Instead of thinking oh well he's addicted to pornography and he's going no my thought is this isn't an individual that I want to
Interact with right you know that's the vibe I'm getting and it's okay to leave it at that right
But then I turn it on myself and just remind myself I
Gave those vibes to somebody
Yeah
Mm-hmm. Yeah sure yeah probably
Because I was doing very similar things mm-hmm, and I just want to be I
Just want to be authentic
And that's another nice thing about this new job is that I've got I can start fresh right all new people new relationships
I don't have to be someone. I'm not hoping that they'll like me
You know
But that was that was the funny part in so we go through this rock bottom. You're sleeping in the other room
Start counseling start therapy. We're talking we're communicating more. We're getting to a better place
And I would say the last because you were out of work for about six months four months the one job
I don't really count
Same
August to the end of December well end of July so five months you're right so I was adding almost six months
Yeah
so
But the last I would say the last
three four months of that was like
You were living your best life
Yeah, but you were being honest. We were communicating you were being very productive
You had set goals you were I mean still looking for a job
So it's not like you were doing you you were very you were more productive in those times that period than I would say in
Our whole marriage honestly yeah
And for me it was one of those where I'm like I just knew whatever it is you found
The next thing would be what is right for us and what needs to happen and where you need to go
But then when you got the job
It was so
It was weird to watch
Yeah, and and will I?
I want to go back before we start talking about that
I want to go back to the live in your best life thing because there's so much there mm-hmm because
We were connecting on levels
We've never been before well that was the other thing that I found interesting because I was still driving down to st. George
for two of those months and
When I would call you on my drives to st. George I'm driving the st. George is a three and a half hour drive yeah it is
It's a beautiful drive, but it's boring yeah, and I for me to stay awake while I'm driving
I just listen to music and I have to listen to music that I want to sing to you
I I put on a full-on show in my car guys you just missing out. It's fine
but
For the past two years if I ever called you on that drive just
to just talk like that's like the perfect time to talk because
No distractions right if I called you before though
You couldn't get off the phone fast enough you hated talking on the phone
And I felt I always thought that was so interesting because I'm like
Well, maybe I mean clearly you were busy because I mean I was the one not busy
So I did understand but at the same time like still why couldn't we talk?
Yeah, but
When you finally were starting to be honest with me, and we were communicating more we talked almost every drive
I took mm-hmm and almost the whole drive to
Almost two hours at least the whole time well coming out to the point where I just
It's kind of lovesick no I
Was just thinking about you all the time
and not like just
Sexually type of thinking just like you were just constantly on my mind
You know my my heart was in the right place my my mindset was was better, and I just
Genuinely wanted to talk to you. Yeah, but I'm telling you that was like the first time in our marriage 21 years
so I was going to therapy and
Yeah, I was still looking for a job like you said, but I discovered writing
I
have I have a DD
Diagnosed years ago. It could have been ADHD. I you know I only ever saw one doctor in
1999 so who knows
And I was like I'm not sure I'm not sure I'm not sure I'm not sure I'm not sure I'm not sure I'm not sure
Or even so what I found out
Was not a side note
It was pretty close
Like with
Hypothesis
Wanted to learn to write
Once I went through the detox of
And it withdrawals from pornography I
Keep saying this and if you don't know what I mean, you should really look it up, but my brain was clean
It wasn't muddled
There is such a vast difference from even
occasionally using pornography, but having the effects on your brain to
Not having any any of it at all
There's just a vast huge difference. So I was able to sit and actually put my ideas down and
There's still a gap. I don't have training. I'm not educated and
Fortunately, there's some AI software that really helps me
Build the rest of the story
so I found a way to put my creativity down and
make something and
It made me so happy and so
Yeah, our marriage
communication my
creativity
Everything was great except I wasn't bringing in income
Mm-hmm, but I was finally to place where I understood that was okay. We were still
Living and it was it was alright. Mm-hmm
But because I was looking for a job still
Eventually, I was gonna find one
And I did so now we're there. Yeah, but that's where it was funny because
You applied for the job you interviewed well for the job and then you got the job and then you went back
To square one
you
Turned off
So I didn't I didn't start using again, but I wasn't productive I had just started playing video it would have been a matter of time
If we hadn't set up the lines of communication that we had and if I had stopped going to
counseling or this group therapy, I
agree, mm-hmm, but because
We have set a new standard for our communication
and
You neither of us to an extent, but mainly you no longer
allow
My intuition to be unchecked yeah
When something's off, we're gonna figure it out
Yeah
Like when you called me on your last trip and you said something is off
and I feel like it since you got the job and and this and that and and
Initially I had a lot of shame
Because I was like why?
Why why did I lose motivation? Why I mean I got to a milestone and I'm just I'm not happy
Why am I not happy?
and
so much of it was just oh
Cuz then I was second-guessing everything. I'm like
Did I pick?
Should I not have done this, you know, and like I was praying my heavenly father
Should I have not taken this job? Was this a bad choice and
I'd realized that it was it's it's the attitude and it's because there's there's a change in my life and
That's going to bring anxiety, but I still hadn't
fully managed
transitioning through anxiety
And in the past when I was anxious I would just use and then that's how I'd get through it
But now I don't have that
So I was kind of spinning my wheels
There were a few things that I had learned but I wasn't I
Still wasn't in the right frame of mind to say, okay
well now I need to look at some cognitive therapy and and really think this through and
No, I was like, I'm just not happy. I'm gonna go play video games
So
It sucked but it was short-lived fortunately and I
Just I changed my attitude. This is a great opportunity this new job that I have
I'm gonna be able to
Continue my career. I'm back to banking
But they were still something missing and it was goals
I wasn't setting goals at work and I wasn't continuing my writing
Yeah, you had not
Continued with your goals at home. Yeah my
and
you
again pointed out
Almost to the it sounded like you were saying like if you've got to just quit this job and go back to
Where we were then so be it
So I I thought about it and
I realized that if I just if I prioritize the right way I
Can find joy in my job?
Because there are a lot of things a lot of skills that I have that I learned through banking and through
The last five years working for a tremendous man a great mentor
That I want to use
in
In banking I can be amazing, but I've got to have a better attitude
More importantly, I'm gonna get back to writing. Mm-hmm because it brought me so much joy
so
So now I just I schedule it
Right, you know and I set a goal
Stephen King writes six pages a day
That's his that's his goal every day he writes six pages and he says sometimes it takes an entire day
Sometimes he finishes before lunch and that's what he does and he's incredibly successful
But I thought I can do that
So I I write three pages a day
Try to and
I'm happy
Yeah, so that's so we discovered that but then when you started your job
It went backwards. Yeah, I can't we kind of yeah the brick wall because then it was real
Mm-hmm, cuz then you were at work. You were gone every day. Yeah
And I know that first week was rough because I was like, what what are you even eating?
Yeah, and you're like I have a protein bar and uh
And uh, what was a green drink?
Yeah, the bloom from Costco. I
Mean, it's the only reason I'm alive is because I had the nutrients of that and supplements
But I was like starving myself because I also wanted to continue to lose weight and I kind of plateaued but I was dumb
Yeah, that's not how you lose weight
So
Yeah, I just started getting these these feelings when I was at work and
They were icky
You know and the reality was that I just it was a new thing and it was scary and that's okay
Mm-hmm. That's allowed. Yeah
But now fast forward
I just finished my third week. Yeah
So I'm in I'm in training
I keep every day. I'm finding new things and some are fun and some are not but
I'm not unhappy
And I work with some pretty cool people so
Yeah, but that's where
So just following my intuition and just making sure that we're communicating stills is where we're at
We'll see how that continues. We'll keep you posted. Yeah
Oh and add to to all of this other crap that we went through we were also
Finally closing on another house
We had started this process
We wanted to buy a condo down in st. George investment property. Yeah
a rental property
a year ago
year and a
Yeah
It took for it it was a
It was a
It took for it. It was so long ago people
This is so dumb when we went to close on our home. There was like a
$38,000 discrepancy in our paperwork
Where they were saying?
No, you you you don't need to come in with this much money. Yeah, you already paid this
We're like, no, we didn't
We didn't remember we put 10% down
a year and a half ago
so stupid
so
Dumb but anyway took forever. We're finally done
And every time it got stressful. I remember when we started this thing we we got into a huge fight
When we were starting to look into properties
And we went to the temple and we were praying and I remember it was one of the most vivid answers
I'd ever gotten to prayer
My answer was that I need to defer to your wisdom
when it came to this and I think it's just because my vision of
Of buying another home for investment was just not not the same not the same
So I have deferred to your wisdom I followed that prompting and it's been good but
Anyway, we'll see
We finally got to closing and then of course we're closing on the home. So there's all new stresses
and it was
It sucked
Yeah, so is that on top of a new job on top of now?
We've got to furnish this place and get it all ready, but you are starting work and have no time off
Yeah, and so that was a fun discussion to you when you're like, I'll have to go down there on on
Friday nights and do all that I can on Saturday and I was like
So
You're that's not helpful no pay attention to details. That's not your thing
Yeah
Just lots of things
But I mean coming back to the to the addiction to the pornography
I mean, this is something that you struggled with your entire life. Yeah, and
So I mean the first time I remember really talking about pornography and your addiction was
2009
And I honestly when when we first started
Really trying to get into what is going on in our marriage because that was a bad time, too
Yeah, for me, it was just the spending
It was all the money. Yeah. Yeah, so that was the that was the next milestone back
Was that's a milestone. What did you call it?
Keystone key key points points. So yeah, the next key point back in our marriage was it was 2009
So, yeah, we have a couple minutes we'll talk about this initially and then the rest will be next week, but I
Had just thought it was overspending wasn't that when it was it was it more than $60,000
It was it was it more than $60,000 in it. No is
the total was was
35,000
And I think that over the years maybe you have changed the five and the three I think we've had this discussion and you
You've said you thought it was 53 and you know what? Maybe it was and I changed the numbers in my head to 35
But why don't we just for now for the sake of argument we'll call it 50,000
I had racked up $50,000 of debt
Some of it was from gambling some of it was most of it was just buying stupid crap
Just over years
And the funny part about that whole thing is that in November
of 2009 we started budgeting
That's when that whole thing happened. We went and saw the bishop because we were this was a problem and we cut out
everything
Like we trimmed our budget down and we still do that same budget
We do but but I was so
mad
Because there was so much money gone and there was nothing to show for it nothing
So we just had to pay off debt because I I was so mad that there was debt because I had never been in debt
Yeah
But we did we paid it off. Yeah, and I have said I've told people this
If we I don't think an IRS auditor could have told us where that money came from
I'll never ever lose my faith and testimony in that that part of it because
We had been talking to the bishop and we were maybe gonna have to get food from the bishop storehouse
we were gonna get help because
We were in a lot of debt and we had to put all of our money towards
Paying it so that's the funny. That's the funny thing about your memory and my memory and your
Fighter flight my fighter flight. Yeah, we were never getting food from the fish Bishop's storehouse
But in my mind, but in your head we were like we're never gonna be able to serve food
Yeah, and we paid it off in 13 months. Yeah
because because it was one of those words like we both make good money and
If you have shelter and food, there is not much more you need to have
but I think in your mind you were thinking we we have to have this much money a month to even live and it's like a
Third of that, right
We didn't go out and buy anything. We didn't go out and buy anything. We didn't go out and buy anything
We didn't go out to eat. We didn't go see movies. We didn't there was no entertainment. There was no
extra food at home. Yep, and
And
We paid it off. Mm-hmm and anybody can do that. Yeah
But that's when I that's when I found out he had a pornography addiction. I didn't know before that. Yeah
Well, that was the underlying issue that I found that out through
counseling
So that but that brought up its own issues, I mean, yeah, that's the underlying issue and I was facing it
I was confronting it
But I didn't put enough
Changes in my life for long-term success
Seeing I don't know because I thought you did
But somehow
Well, then maybe I'd so I did you found a workaround them, right?
So they started to collapse because I found other ways, you know, like we found ways that I couldn't download
stuff on my phone and there yeah, I found ways around it eventually
Yep, so so yeah the the the barriers that I had established for myself eventually started to
erode
And I think that's one of the big things now with counting the days is that I'm more
I'm more accountable to it. It's the same thing with I mean, that's why you want to set up goals. Yeah
Because yeah, I'm like this group therapy is gonna end and I'll continue to see a therapist but it's different
It'll be different and I don't know. Maybe I won't like him. I just found out
They referred me to a guy. I'm gonna meet him hopefully next week
Maybe I'll like him
But does that mean I'm not I mean, I'm gonna find another one or maybe it is gonna work
But in six months, am I still gonna go see him like a lot of things could happen
but you and I
Have to continue to have this conversation. I have to continue to come to you
and we've set new boundaries like
If I if I'm having a feeling that you know, I'm I'm struggling and I'm really
close to acting out we've put
things in place so that I
Know what to do in that situation. I call you and a lot of therapists I think in cognitive therapy
CGT something see I'm not licensed but they bring up the rubber band thing
and I've still got it on my wrist and you you snap the rubber band and
It's the point is to give you a jolt back to reality and to resetting your thoughts
So there's there's lots of things that I've put in place but
It's got to be long term
You've done the rubber band thing before mm-hmm
Eventually it breaks and then I don't put a new one on and then
Like we had two guys that were
Previous members of the group they came with this last week one had been clean with 790 days
I'm still wearing it. So uses it daily
He had his folder
So uses that daily still uses the dailies daily like
Success can happen
but it I
Can't stop right? Otherwise, you're never addiction free
No
So
I think I'd like to close just this one by saying
There's so many of us out there that are addicted to pornography and there's so many reasons
To not do anything about it. I get that there are a lot of reasons
But there are in my opinion far better reasons to
Break the cycle and to do something different and live a better life
because because you can so
That's what I'm hoping people get from this
But also it's very
This is very cathartic. I
Mean, I always feel better talking through my issues, especially this one
So I feel like I'm getting better at this
I always feel better talking through my issues, especially this one. So I feel great even if Danny's the only one that listens
I'm still gonna be I'm so happy
Thank you for listening everybody Danny
We're grateful and see you next week. Yep. Bye