Hey everybody welcome back to the Justin and Heidi unfiltered podcast
This is Justin and I'm Heidi
Thanks for listening
So Heidi and I talked about some stuff over the holidays and we decided
After kind of inadvertently taking a little break because I
Didn't set these up to record them. It's on me. It's my fault
We're gonna come back and it's it's gonna be less about hairstylists for a while
Almost nothing about hair style for a while
Talk about our marriage
What we've what we've learned things that we've gone through
raising kids our membership in our church and
Other aspects kind of like how the reason why we took a hiatus from the podcast is because Justin got a job. Yeah
Justin
Yeah, Justin, but that also meant he kind of spiraled
So we're gonna do that just a little bit who knew we should talk about that at some point, too
Yeah, who knew that that would make me spiral? Yeah
The how is getting a job stressful not having a job for four months was stressful
Everything stressful, but you kind of lived your best life for four months. I really did and
Almost no video games were had
It's great, which is the first yeah in our marriage
Yeah
Can confirm we decided that the first topic we're gonna have or we're gonna talk about is
addiction
specifically
my long-term addiction to pornography and
I say other addictions
But they're kind of byproducts. They're still they're separate addictions
Over-eating. I mean my my highest weight
A year and a half ago was four hundred and thirty seven pounds
I'm a big dude
See, I definitely overeat and
spending money
that one
I mean, you never really over addictions
Especially the ones that become like chemical dependencies
So I'm not gonna say I'm over my addiction to spending money
But it is pretty well controlled
And that's good
Yeah
I mean we've set up some boundaries. You have a harder time to get around that with me. Yeah
Can't hide it as much no and I would definitely recommend those boundaries
And and part of me twitches when I hear in shows or in other tv shows or in conversations with people how
A guy will have a separate account that his wife doesn't know about he's like they shut her
Yeah, but you did that
Yeah
It's exactly what happened. Yeah would not recommend
Well enough you want a really actual happy marriage. Yeah
So we'll go back in the next several podcasts. We're gonna talk about
some
Key points. Yeah, I was gonna say milestones, but key points is probably the most important
Milestones, but key points is probably a better way to say it
Um key points in that journey and we're gonna start with the most recent one which was in august
2024
Where
It was a it was a that was a really I would say that was probably the hardest part of our marriage
There's a rock bottom, yeah, so if you've ever watched intervention, um
It's this uh
The show on there's a few seasons on netflix. I don't know what she did on a and e maybe I don't know
The the therapists that are on there or the the interventionists
That are on that they say one of the key points of
Um one of these being successful
is
The person has to hit rock bottom
and they take this drug addict or this alcoholic and they
They get them
When they're at their rock bottom like they're living their rock bottom. They've been there or they're really close
until the family members
You we've got to get them there. Sometimes they have to push them
You have to set boundaries and say
I'm not going to help you anymore. We're not going to communicate. You don't get to see my kids whatever
Um, I reached this rock bottom on my own
Um
In the last recording we did this is a re-recording I went through details and I don't I didn't like it
If you would like to share any specific details
You go ahead. I'm not ashamed
But I don't want to talk about it
Are you feeling shame you're not ashamed but you're kind of feeling shame
Yeah
It makes me feel like well, I I mean
What happened and it's probably true for most people is
Something stupid happened you got mad at me over something stupid. Yeah
And I was mad at you for something stupid, but mine was kind of more justified stupid
But they were both still stupid, which I mean we're married. We've gone through those many times in our married life
but the reaction that came afterwards was
Where I think you were
Mearing the end of your rope. I guess you could say yeah, he he did put hands on me and and it's one of those where you know
we
counseled with our
bishop our ecclesiastical
our ecclesiastical leader
Everyone was trying to make sure that I was okay
But I never felt unsafe
If anyone was really in danger with me
I truly believe that yeah
But you did put hands on me and I did not knee you in the nuts
But I told you I was going to yes you grazed them. Yeah
Yeah
Yeah, you you definitely were close to taking me down but I was gonna
You know, but that's where you really that's where you really
Turned inward on yourself and thought I don't want that to happen
Yeah, because then you did start sleeping in the other room and it was it was a low point. It wasn't great
For either of us, right?
But it's not like we were throwing the divorce word around or anything like that
But it was uh, if we're gonna continue something has to change because it wasn't okay
Yeah, and I think that's why like everybody's rock bottom is different. You know for me sleeping in the next room
Was miles away from you and that was absolutely my rock bottom. I hated it. I was miserable
Well, and you chose to sleep there because I was the one that was sleeping on the couch the first night
Yeah, you did not want to share a bed
Nor a room and or a room. So the option was either I'm in our room on our bed
And you're on the couch
Or I'm in the other room. So yeah, so yeah you picked that one. Yeah
Very noble
Well, thanks
I mean the good decisions had to start somewhere
It's true. Um, and in that moment in that uh,
week
Yeah during that during that timeline about a week or so maybe a little more than 10 days
Um, I was still using pornography on a regular basis which I didn't know about right
Right because he had faced his pornography addiction and we did put
Safeties in place. Mm-hmm. And you know
Once an addict always an addict so lesson learned
Yeah
So there was uh, there was a lot there was a lot for us to go through and
My underlying
issue
Is the addiction to pornography because when you look back at my overeating
Overspending my overspending my anger lying lying. I mean these are
These really are more byproducts some more than others
But really the pornography addiction is the thing that has the highest
concentration of
of those neurotransmitters and
Those those hits of dopamine and and endorphins
That come from use that had been
I mean I had made those pathways in my brain
Nick they were
They were cleared pathways
You know, they might as well have been six lane highways
um
If I was stressed or angry or whatever
I mean, yeah, I would use but also I would use just because you know, it was time to use
So
um
But it was it was a chemical dependency
um, so what I what I realized also
Is well first of all, I I had to get help so
I started to see a counselor
I guess I made the appointment with the bishop first and then we talked about going to see a counselor
So that that took a couple of weeks
But I had decided I was done with pornography
And that was a really dangerous time. I'm finding out as I mean because right now i'm in a group therapy
It's like a 12 week course. We're like a week eight
Because a holiday set it back three weeks, but i'm also still seeing
The counselor on a regular basis and will continue to
But you're not you have for a month
right
Because a new job
But we figured out a way
That's another thing
I can't see the counselor that I have had because
She only works hours that i'm at work and i'm
I'm in riverton. I don't have the ability with this new job
At least for the few for the first six months to leave work long enough to get here to sandy have a session and go back
It's not possible
But you and I talk about things
often
Ideally on a daily basis
And we decided together
well
We discussed it. I knew it was my decision. I wanted to continue seeing a counselor. No, we both said that
You we did okay
So it was a joint decision
I wanted to continue my therapy because I see the value in it
Whereas the last time it was like okay, i'm good. I'm better now
It's just not
How that works anyway
so
So anyway, i'm in therapy. I'm in a
pornography recovery group and as of today's recording i'm 151 days
151 days
it's over
From that from viewing pornography from using it. Oh, I remember what I was going to say the
withdrawals
Withdrawals were a real thing
And it's I have to say that because it's so frustrating. There are a lot of people who justify and say
Pornography is not the same as a hardcore drug
But
In a lot of ways it really is
because the the effects that it has on your brain is almost identical and
The withdrawal symptoms are not as strong, but they are still brutal
And I went through withdrawals when I was in that other room and
And that was the first time that I had really ever
Ever contemplated ending my life
It was rough it was a dangerous two weeks and they don't recommend going through withdrawals
without a sponsor without a therapist without
Safety
Because it was I mean I looked up a way to do it
You know it was and i'm not going to go into any other details, it's just i'm
horrified that I got to that point but
But it was so strong the emotional
pain that I was in
Was was brutal and it was because my my brain was so
Used to having these these chemical releases and then I stopped
um
So anyway, yeah the withdrawals were
It was brutal
Um, let's let's let's talk about that
What went through your mind you said we weren't throwing the divorce word around but
What was going through your mind
at the time
Well, I just kept thinking
You have got to figure out
Your shit
Yeah, like honestly
Because in our entire marriage and this is this is something that we have talked about
Many different times I am not the type of wife that's like you better earn this much money
You better do this. You better get out there and you better
I've always been more
Live your life. What makes you happy? What brings you joy do that?
I I love what I do. I've always loved what I do
And if I don't love what I do, I change it so that I do love what I do
so I feel like
If you're doing what you love in life
You will you will create the life that's meant for you whether that means monetary or
Just joy in the simple simple life, whatever it is. It's
So when you lost your job
I know that was hard for you because in your head and this is where this is the societal influences really start to
Take over. Yeah, because I'm the man
I have to earn the money. Yeah, I can't I can't I have to provide for my family
Even though you've been the breadwinner for years decades. Yeah years
So I know that that's
and that's where
I've never agreed with that societal influence. There's a lot that I don't agree with on society and how they make
dictate human lives drives me crazy actually
So I know your thought I know what your thought process was during that time for you
And it was a hard time for you. But for me, it's like
We're fine. If it means we buy less clothes for everyone. We still have clothes. We're not destitute
If it means we buy less
entertainment less fun things
But we're fine. We're fine
If we buy less entertainment less fun things, but we still have food like we will have food
We have a house that we live in that we can afford
And still have groceries like food and shelter. That's what you need in life
That's that's what you need. All the other stuff is fun and we like it and it makes life enjoyable
But that's not what you you don't need it. That's not something that has to be there. Um
So so for me during that time period I was just kind of like
I was just I was following your lead more than anything like you you got no notice that you were going to be
Your job was letting you go that you could apply for your job again
Yeah, we had that discussion where you're like they're gonna hunger games us. Yeah, we had the hunger games for a job
And and you were so mad at your company because you're like
How dare they do it this way? This is stupid. This isn't how it should be and you know, i'm always devil's advocate advocate
But i'm like, oh you added advocate
I think you meant to just say
To the devil. No, sorry going
Yeah, I remember this vividly
Yeah, because i'm like, well, how else do you think they're gonna do it? Like if they piss how else would they do if they pick?
Their top six but three of them decide no and give them the finger then they just pissed off
Others that could have been great
Potential so i'm like how else are they supposed to do that made me so mad
Because you didn't like the the fact that I looked at the brighter side or the other side of the coin or
Which I do often in our marriage. So I don't know. I guess surprised at that but always
But you just knew that that wasn't for you and you needed to go a different direction and honestly we both were feeling like
I'm i'm a very i'm a very god-driven
God knows us. He will if we're listening he will set us on the right path. Yeah, and
And I did not have this was not a high point in my spirituality at this point
But I still had what I have
I did have a tenuous grip
With my relationship with with god and I still had some communication and I did feel
That the best choice for me at the time was to part ways
and to take this the severance
and
and leave
and funny story
Two other people ended up doing that also and I was adamant. I'm not gonna I was the newest one there at five years
Everyone else had been there
way longer the next
Least senior was nine years on the job before I got there. I was not going to try to hunger games against
These amazing people well two of them
Decided to leave and then there was another they ended up adding another position
So there was a job open
and I absolutely
Would have would have gotten could have gone then I guess we shouldn't say would have but
I mean it was in my area. It was my expertise. I don't know could have
That's the funny part though
We'll get to the good parts soon, but the good parts over the last four months
When I'm when I was living my best life and the real details behind that
I
Wouldn't have had
Right
I wouldn't be on this journey to recovery
Because I wouldn't have hit my rock bottom
I wouldn't be
working
Where I am now, let's not say names of places
just in case
Yeah, I mean and it's a it's a much better job in terms of
A lot of things
and
And I wouldn't have
I wouldn't have a clean brain. I just wouldn't I I would still be addicted
I didn't change my life
Sorry continue
No, I mean
That's that's the funny thing is
All of those things and the way that they happened and how it happened. I it was meant to be
Yeah, that's just that's how it had to happen for you and for our marriage and for us
That's where we both you get to this point
We'll see how far that
Nice
Well, that's why we both felt right about that decision
Apart ways
I like I said, I was just trying to get to the good parts
I like I said, I was just going more off of
I was going more off of my spirituality my prayers and what I was receiving which was just
Trust the process. Yeah
But it's also one of those where I just know
We're put down here to make choices. So there's no way i'm gonna take choices away from somebody else. Not my place
So I had to trust that you did know what you were doing
knowing that I
Will always have my choices and
Do what I know I can do I can only control what I can control
Yeah, and that's when you
When this all happened and I was in the other room and we were having conversations our dialogue was a lot of
You kept saying
I'm done
But the way you were saying it it still wasn't like
We're through
I mean in my moment of going through the withdrawals and sheer panic. I was terrified that that's what it meant
but looking back and realize it's
You were saying it was an ultimatum really
Um, it was it was an ultimatum. Yeah, you you were being mistreated because I
Was just my attitude was unchecked
My anger was unchecked
I didn't
admit that I have
anger emotional issues
And I've still had some flare-ups since then. I don't know if that's ever gonna go away
I'm gonna have attitude
I mean I live with
Never mind, I love you very much
You're a little antagonistic sometimes but anyway
It's gonna it's gonna continue to happen but I knew
Eventually
I just I had to make changes
If we wanted to stay as a married couple, yeah, you had to make some changes because I was done
I was done pulling the weight. I was done repeating over and over
Like pull your head out basically
Or you would say
That you're tired of not being equals
And my my limited brain power and I'm not blaming the drug use of the pornography use
But I did have limited brain power
Well, and but I would see it as
Your limiting beliefs were societal beliefs. Yeah, you're limiting beliefs where that's how you were raised
That's what you believed to be you didn't
Again, it comes down to that mindset and we've talked about that in our previous podcast. Yeah
That it's it's like you don't understand how I just am able to do these things. Yeah, because you just can't
And I hate that word can't so when you yeah, I do too now you do. So when you yeah when you said
We're not equals. I was like, but I I put you on a pedestal. I talk about you in the most amazing ways
I don't put you down and I
Didn't realize
That's not what it's about
There was so much more to it, but I just was so limited
from my
From my beliefs my mindset was in the wrong place
I mean
I mean, that's why that's why we got in the fight that day that you threw a garbage can at my car
Because in your mind
When I had asked you to do something
I
Was the nagging nitpicking wife who didn't understand you had things?
and
That was just another one of those times where it was like what in the world for me I was like
It was the mindset thing
and
As you said go do this thing go put the go put the sticker
Go put the sticker
On the car the registration sticker would come in the mail and we had decided because he was driving a company car before so
Lost his job doesn't have a car. So it was like well, i'm just at work eight hours a day
If you need the car, we'll just you'll drop me off and then you'll have the car. Yeah, I I don't need it
And uh, so that's kind of what we had discussed and this was literally the first day you were about to do that
Was to take me to work and drop me off and keep the car. Yeah, and the registration sticker had come in the mail
And so I was still I mean he was literally going to be walking out the door with me to take me to work
So I was still getting my lunch ready and I just handed him the sticker and said can you go put this on the car?
like thinking i'll be right behind you because i'm coming
And you put the sticker in your pocket walked past me and went to your office and I was like
What what what are you right?
and so then I
Have my lunch together and I called out to you
You've taken me to work
And you came back out and I was like
Don't just stick that sticker in your pocket and then forget all about it. Go put it on the car. Yeah
And you were so mad at me
For telling you what to do
And then because I was gonna do it
Because you were gonna do it and in your head you weren't gonna forget but you know 21 years of being married to you
I was like, yeah. No, it's not that's not how that usually works in my experience
It was a really funny joke that that men share at least the ones who admit that we've got issues
Is that yeah, you don't have to keep asking us to do what you asked us to do like
Every six months. We'll we'll do it
Yeah
Yeah, exactly. Yeah
So I was yeah, I was visibly I was not happy that you had literally walked past me and
Because in my mind i'm thinking
Whatever you got whatever damn email you got that you think is that important that you had to go see it in?
The threes you can't even do what you needed to do with that email in the three seconds you had
But you could have put the sticker on the car
Because you're gonna have to come home and deal with that email. Anyway, you don't have time. You're taking me to work
That's another thing is prioritization
Yeah, you sucked at it could not prioritize properly
Because I couldn't look at things rationally, right and determine what
What realistically has to go first, right? Because it would give me anxiety. So I was like no, I can't do that. Yeah
So, yeah, I didn't even like I was thinking in my head
I was thinking you gotta grab a bottle of
Spray and and a paper towel so you can clean the license plate off to put the sticker on that was like that was the extent
Like it might take you a minute longer
I had not even realized you had just driven through the car wash moments before
Yeah
So literally all you had to do was take the sticker on the stupid license plate, right?
and
It didn't happen and then
It didn't happen and then things blew up
Well, you went out there and did it
But it was one of those where I when I was getting in the car I was like why did why was that a fight?
Why did that happen?
but
Afterwards over the next couple of weeks
And we started to hash things out
We revisited that argument
Multiple times
and
It doesn't I mean there are times I can't even remember what it was about
Until just a minute ago when you started talking about it. I had forgotten that it was about the stupid registration sticker
because it was
It wasn't the thing it was the reaction. It was the emotional blow up
And it was
It was just such poor stress management
You know because I had I I started working for this other company
I was making
Nothing stupid money just
Nothing paperboy kind of money. It was bad
So I was stressed. Yeah, and you were still telling me
It's not about that, right? And I was like, okay. I know that and that's great
But still in my head, I'm like I have to make this work. I made 400 bucks this week
Yeah
But that's that's the thing with addiction is what happens and I knew
I always knew when things were off. We always you always know when things are off
Yeah, but you think that you're communicating you figure to communicating about the right things
And you I mean you simply do you you don't know what you don't know
What you don't know, but there was a time when I would just I would do the bare minimum I would communicate
Enough enough so that it felt okay, and then we were good again
And we were and it was enough
Yeah, because that's the other thing is
you come home from your therapies with your
therapists or in the group therapies and you'll be like
You really are just amazing. You're still with me. So many other guys have this other problem and
Honestly in my head. I'm thinking
I'm not a saint
I'm not perfect
You deal with me
antagonistic and all
So who am I to start casting?
stones
I mean
I'm not the pot. I'm not gonna call the kettle black like I'm not perfect
I'm not perfect
But we all want to
Villify I don't know
Well, we'll think about that
Yeah, because I'm really sorry
But we've reached the end of this episode
Um, can I give a shout out?
Is that all right have your permission okay, um shout out to my my dear friend Danny
We were mission companions together
He is
One of the most delightful people on the earth absolute saint of a man
amazing father
Reached out and said you guys are killing it with your podcast and he's
He listens
Every time I'm on the air
He listens every week. He loves it
Um, thanks for listening friend. We really appreciate it. We love you one
That's all it takes
He's the only reason i'm doing this. Okay
No, this is like therapy this that's the reason i'm doing this so we will be back
For us, it's going to be five seconds, but for you, it's a week. So ha ha
Um, but thank you for listening and we'll see you next week
Bye