Here we go. Welcome back. You are listening to the Justin and Heidi Unfiltered Podcast.
I got it that time. First try. Nailed it. They don't have to know this is our fifth take.
Thanks very much for being here. We have been married for 21 years.
We have a bunch of years in the hair industry. We talked about this last episode.
I don't think we need to keep bringing it up. Maybe bring up that we have been married a long time.
21 years is a long time. Especially when one person has a growth mindset and the other one has a fixed mindset.
You know, growing slowly. Thank you. Thank you.
Yeah. Anyway, so we are still on just mindset.
I mean, we are going to get into other stuff in future episodes. But mindset is so huge.
That it is going to take up a whole series of its own. But it is still also the perfect place to start.
So we have talked about the fixed mindset. We have talked about a growth mindset and specifics of how they each work.
Their belief systems. Now we are going to talk about the impact on success.
So as the expert on growth mindset, I would like you to tell our listeners what having that mindset does.
What impact that has on your success.
I would say, and don't get me wrong, I never claim to be a perfect person.
So these things that we are going to talk about in this episode, they still will hit a growth mindset person.
We are not immune to them, I guess you could say.
Sure.
But for me personally, it is turning it around or making it work for me. So imposter syndrome.
Like if you get on social media and you start looking at all the stylists out there that do gorgeous hair,
you are pretty soon just going to stop doing hair because there is no way you can compete with.
There are some talented stylists out there.
And I will admit there have been times where I do someone's hair and I go, damn, that looks good.
And then there are other times where it is like, I would say most of the time we kind of pick our own work apart
and we see every flaw instead of the beautiful picture at the end, I guess you could say.
But someone who has a growth mindset, again, they are going to look at that
and they are going to think, how can I improve on that? Not that's like I should stop.
Right. Yeah. And I think this is where my expertise comes into play as the resident fixed mindset expert recovering.
Recovering.
Recovering fixed mindset expert. The impact on success is the exact opposite. It is very hindering.
My success in many ways hit a roadblock and then I just was fine with mediocrity.
So when I would see your situation and how you would persevere through things, I was envious,
but I was also kind of jealous and like it sucks that it comes so easy to you.
But it's different from like, you know, those dirty rat bastards who can just eat whatever the hell they want
and they are just muscular and thin. Hey, I hate them. I hate them so much.
They, it's different. That's metabolism. Right. OK. And that's and it'll catch up with them hopefully one day.
No, sorry. This is different. A mindset is different.
So when I would look at you in that same way and think, man, I just how does she do that?
It was it was within my reach. Right. But I didn't understand that.
And I had to do painstaking research, lots of trial and error, lots of error before finally it sinks in.
And I realized I can have this mindset. Right.
And it helped that all along you were saying the whole time, well, it's it's in your head.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But you also didn't believe me. Right.
Because you you viewed mindset as a lot like a metabolism kind of a thing out of your control.
You were born with that one and I was born with this one is what it is. I can't do what you do.
I can't change that. Right. But in reality, everything, well, even the metabolism can be changed from what I'm told.
Yeah. Well, who knows? Still working on it.
But that's kind of how I looked at it. I mean, that's so that's the impact on success.
And I think that mindset, your impact is that it's in most ways, it's skyrocketed through success in whatever way you want it to.
Right. There's still I don't want to take away from the fact that it still takes effort and time.
And so like when you say you looked at what I was doing and you were envious because it was so easy.
But in my mind, that was hard work. That wasn't easy.
But with that growth mindset, there are still things that you still have to do. Discipline is one of them.
No, I did not want to work 20 minutes every day on that thing that I was learning.
Right. But the discipline behind it is what made me do it.
Right. But it was because I could see what I wanted. Yes.
I had that goal in mind of and this will get me 20 minutes further.
It's that same story of the all of the starfish on the on the beach and the guy throwing them into the ocean.
Right. And the other guy's going, why are you doing that? You won't even make a difference.
There's too many. And he throws another one in and says, made a difference to that one. Right.
It's that same mindset. It's the focus on the journey.
OK. In some ways, the focus on the journey is the same. You were looking at the future and saying, this is what I can accomplish.
I was looking at the future and thinking, how am I going to get there?
Even if our future vision was the exact same, mine was a hindrance because I.
How? Why am I not there yet? Well, because you've got to put in all the work.
Well, and to your point, what we've said in previous podcasts is.
Like I'm sitting there going, OK, well, that's 20 minutes closer, that's 20 minutes closer.
Right. Breaking it down in chunks, whereas you were thinking, how am I going to accomplish this?
That's hours and hours of work and I'll never get that done. Yeah.
And I've learned through through reading and through therapy and through.
Again, painstaking trial and error that the best thing for anxiety, depression and.
Just changing your mindset is to break things down because we are we're simple creatures.
And when we look at a big task and then break it down so that it's more manageable, then we're accomplishing a portion of the task.
When we do it, didn't take as much effort as we thought.
We took care of something, so we get the market off the list and we're closer to our end goal.
So we've accomplished something. Right. Whereas with a different mindset, you do the same amount of work.
But at the end of it, you think I've barely made a dent. Right.
And you start to doubt yourself and you do start to look over at your neighbors grass and go, well, why is their grass greener?
Yeah. And I wish I was over there. Yeah. But it's greener where you water it.
You gotta you gotta break. You gotta break these things down.
So anyone with a growth mindset, I would say. Correct me if I'm wrong, whoever is out there.
But to really accomplish things in life, you've got to break it down into chunks you can handle.
You do. And that's one of the things that's kind of universal.
It can be tied to any industry, it can be tied to any aspect of your life, especially ones that give you anxiety.
And yeah, that's the key. Just break it down. So you talked about imposter syndrome.
This is a pretty common challenge in a lot of industries, but ours in particular, that feeling of inadequacy because.
Hairstylists experience it when they're even if they're skilled and successful, they can feel the effects of imposter syndrome and feel inadequate.
What do you think? In your opinion, how does mindset change that? Well, first of all, you have to remember this is a service industry.
We are always working on someone else. So I feel like when we start to feel imposter syndrome, it's because of something someone said.
Yeah. Or how someone treated you or what you read in your socials, because we are so social.
We do need to post and do all the things. Right. You start to get that imposter syndrome, not necessarily because you decided you're an imposter,
but because of something that made you feel imposter. Now, the difference.
And again, even with a gross mindset, you're still going to get those feelings. Those are still going to come about.
But I feel like the person with the with the growth mindset, again, breaking things down, taking it in bite size chunks, you're going to look at that and go.
Well, then how do I improve? Right. Well, I love the way that you put that, because when it comes down to.
The events that bring this up, this feeling of inadequacy, I think it's a great example.
A lot of times it's something that somebody says. So let's take, for example, like a review online. I went to see Starla.
And why the hell would I pick Starla? Anyway, can't associate it with anyone.
Yeah, exactly. So I went to see Starla and she screwed up my hair. She did such a bad job.
And I've heard the story a bunch of times. And a lot of times it's like even during the appointment,
you're getting no feedback from them that makes you think that they don't like what they did.
But because they they have a fear of confrontation.
They're one of those people that's just very easily going to go and bash you behind your back or on a phone because it's easier.
And it gives them the ick to say, I don't like what you're doing.
Now, there are there are lots of different reactions, but I think for the sake of this argument,
we could probably pin them into girls versus fixed mindset, because when you see that review,
somebody with with their walls that go up and they get really defensive and they're like that.
Ho didn't even I asked her, do you like this, your hair? And she said yes.
And they're focusing on that and they're focusing on the things that are outside of their control.
Right. That's the fixed mindset. Yep. And it becomes excuses. Right.
Whereas somebody with a growth mindset, I think their response can almost always be boiled down to that sucks.
You're acknowledging it. It happened. Well, and like for me, because of course I've had bad reviews.
Of course, I've gone through this in my own career. Right. You don't do hair for two years and not have a bad review.
You're learning. Right. But for me, having that hat, having had that happen, it just makes me learn again.
Learn what could I have done differently or how could I have done that differently?
What do I do in the future? Right. How do I change what I'm doing so that in the future that doesn't happen?
Now, I can only control what's in my sphere of control. So I can't necessarily go and change their mind per se.
But how do I, how do, what do I, what can I control? Well, I'm going to make sure that when I'm talking to them, I'm talking to them face to face.
I am doing a thorough consultation, which you all know in the beauty industry, they don't teach you that in school.
They try. We're going to do probably multiple episodes about consultations. They try, but it is something, and for a lot of people, a lot of it is you just got to do it to learn it.
Right. Like even if they do try and teach it in school, you have a different demographic that goes to schools than you do paying clients that go to not schools.
Right. So, I mean, you're still going to, you're still going to have a trial and error learning no matter what. You're always going to have that.
But are you taking it as a, well, that stupid hoe, she doesn't know what she's talking about. She shouldn't have just told me.
Right. Or are you learning, but could I have done differently? And that's the mindset shift. That's the change.
And it's okay to be, to be hurt. It's okay to have those feelings, to have those emotions. We're not saying to just bury them.
No, and I'm not saying that I was perfect and didn't think that stupid hoe, but at the end of the day, I can let that hinder me and be like, well, I know I did good and not change anything I'm doing and do it the same way.
Or I can think that stupid hoe, she doesn't know what she's talking about, but what could I have done differently still?
Yeah.
And that's the difference. It's not, and you have to remember again, service oriented. It doesn't matter what I think in the end of the day.
It matters what the person I'm working on thinks. Right. It's all about the guests, all about them.
And if your focus is on the guest experience and you get a negative review, it would behoove you, it is in your best interest to accept that feedback in a positive way.
In the most positive way you can.
Yeah.
Keeping in mind that-
Perfection's not there.
Right.
Yeah.
And keeping in mind that not everyone that sits in your chair is going to be a fit for you.
That's true too. There are those situations where, you know, they're just, a guest doesn't really know what they want and they're not articulating it.
Yeah. And you're not on the same level.
Yeah.
That's fine.
I, 100% that's fine.
Yeah.
And that's why I say, even though I've had a lot of guests sit in my chair and not all of them return, it's, I don't take that personally.
Yeah.
And even if they sit in my chair, go somewhere else and then come back, I don't take it personally.
Yeah.
Because at the end of the day, really it is still about joy. I want to be happy doing hair that I'm doing.
And I want the person sitting in my chair to be happy about the hair they're getting.
Yeah. Well, and I think again, one of those universal principles, people that are successful in any industry would probably agree.
The more you focus on the things that are within your control, the better off you'll be.
I know that's something that successful people know about because it's in-
Every butt.
Yeah.
And actually, probably most famously, the seven habits of highly successful people, it's a very prominent principle that is taught.
And that's just a gap in will or just learning between somebody with a fixed mindset and a growth mindset.
Believing that things that are being able to distinguish, first of all, what's within your control and without your control can be hard when you're not ready to admit it.
But again, that's, I think, where we just need to go back to.
There's the 20%, the top 20 who are, they've got amazing mindsets and they're killing it.
They're doing great. And then there's the bottom 20, never going to change.
What we're hoping is that that in between is the person who's listening to this.
And you know, either you're in a really bad situation, got a bad mindset right now, you're having the attitude issues and you want to improve, or you're doing pretty well, but you know you can do-
Better.
Weller, better.
Yeah.
In a moment, it sounded like that was a better way to say it. I know it's not a word.
Yeah, just being able to do a little better. And again, having that understanding of not focusing on things that are out of your control, it's not taught anywhere.
It's not taught in high school, beauty school.
I mean, a lot of us didn't learn it at home. Sorry, mom and dad, no offense.
I didn't ever learn that principle until much later on.
Much later, well into our marriage.
Yeah.
You dropped the ball on that one.
No, you would not listen to me.
Agree to disagree.
Didn't we already discuss that?
There's no evidence, unless they already listened to the first two episodes.
Yeah.
So, honestly, I feel like we could talk and talk and talk about within control and outside of control, but I think we've covered it.
Yeah.
Right, wouldn't you agree?
Yeah.
So let's talk about some other mindset challenges like perfectionism.
That's a hard one too.
How so?
Everyone, especially when you've been doing something so well for so long, that learning stage is hard to get through.
Yeah.
Because you've been so perfect for so long, you've done everything.
And you've built yourself up in your own head to where you think, I can't do this on my guests.
They're going to know and they're going to be mad and they'll never see them again.
Let's break it down though.
Again, bite-sized chunks, right?
Yeah, you might not see that guest again.
There are plenty of fish in the sea.
Yeah.
Right?
Lots and lots of people.
Someone who's a perfectionist, which I would say I am, but I'm not, I don't need to go to an anonymous perfectionist group.
Let's say that.
But at the same time, because I guess I'm always learning.
Yeah.
So my guests, I guess the people that sit in my chair, they enjoy the fact that they know I'm always learning something.
Yeah.
Their hair, I'm never, very rarely am I doing their hair the exact same every time.
Right.
The people who expect that, they don't sit in my chair.
There are people who want that.
They're not the ones that sit in my chair.
The ones who sit in my chair, they know I'm always learning.
I'm always doing something new and I'm trying to keep up on the industry and do things that are new.
They're still getting the same result, if not tweaked a little better.
Right.
And if there's anything that ever goes wrong, they know I'll fix it because everything can be fixed.
But that-
Again, she says with her mindset.
With that mindset.
Because that's true.
A lot of people are afraid to try something new because you think, now I've ruined it.
Right.
One of the biggest things that I think a lot of stylists, when they're learning something new, is they get so fixated on that perfect part.
Yeah.
That they're afraid to go through the learning process.
They don't want somebody to- it can't be perfect and they can't do it on someone.
Well, then do five models.
What's it going to take for you to be perfect?
So there's a really naughty word in there, though, that there's a gap that's stopping a lot of people there.
And this naughty word, it's naughty because people don't want to admit that-
They're learning.
That they're doing this because then they'll have to change.
Right.
But it's procrastination.
Right.
What is the role of procrastination in this issue with mindset?
It's seeing that task of what you need to learn to be able to get to the next stage of your career as a huge meteor.
And seeing you've got to jump this massive hurdle or you've got to accomplish this huge task and not breaking it down.
Because then it would be easier.
So they procrastinate.
Right.
I'll get to it.
Or I can't do this.
Right.
I can't do this because I didn't learn it this way.
I can't do this because I didn't- it's not perfect.
I don't know how to get it to be perfect.
I can't do this on my guests.
So I'm going to keep doing the method I'm doing.
I'm going to keep doing it the way I've been doing it.
When all you're doing is just staying stagnant, it's going to work for a time.
It always works for a time.
For a time.
Right.
But there is an end date.
But eventually you have to grow.
You just- you have to.
You have to.
But I don't see why we feel so much trepidation on learning.
Why is it bad to say- like my guests will be- because I've taken pictures and I'm always- I'm not always taking pictures,
but I'll take pictures especially when I'm trying something new or wanting to find out more, learn more.
And so I start taking pictures because how better can you document this day and age than to take a picture of before and after and in between.
And from this starting point to this end point, what was the results?
I mean, this is scientific evidence.
That's how we do it.
And so people are afraid to take pictures because their clients aren't used to them taking pictures.
Why are you taking a picture?
They don't want to tell them they're learning something new because heaven forbid you don't know everything.
But at the same time, we already know you don't know everything.
Right.
It's impossible to know everything.
So just have a conversation.
Have a conversation and let them in on it.
Why is this so- why is that so scary?
Because we've told ourself what the results-
I'm not charged this much, but I am this person, but I am an expert.
No, you're not because there are new things all the time.
Right.
So unless you're going to let them in on it, you're just creating that narrative in your own head.
That's what I was about to say.
Word for word, we are perfect for each other.
But you're right.
And we both have a narrative.
So the narrative in my head for a lot of my life was I can't do that little miss perfect because I don't work that way.
And your narrative is, yeah, you can just change your attitude.
Right. Change your mindset.
Change your mindset.
That's the other thing about growth mindset is that you understand that everybody can do it.
And when you have a fixed mindset, you just think those people are pompous jerks.
Who tell you don't do anything right.
So there are a lot of other things that come as a result of these issues like fear or failure, imposter syndrome, comparison and perfectionism.
So you've got stuff like it's like procrastination already brought up, but you also tend to miss deadlines.
Oh, yeah.
They come and go.
Yep.
I was supposed to sign up for this class or I was supposed to I was supposed to do this.
I have this turned in.
Yeah, I was going to.
But that fixed mindset again, instead of breaking it down, they see this huge project.
Right. And they don't know where to start.
That's the biggest hurdle that I found is where do I even start?
And in your mindset, even with this, even with this podcast, I was going through.
I've got this outline. I've had it for two weeks.
I'm ready to go.
And I'm like, what do we do about this, Heidi?
What do we call it?
Are we going to be able to call it that in 10 years, Heidi?
Is this name going to I'm serious.
We have this discussion about what we were going to name this freaking podcast.
And I still don't know what it's called.
I have to practice it every time.
But you said we're going to we're not going to know until we just start doing it.
Yes, start. And now we're in our third episode and we're experts.
We don't know yet. We haven't even posted one.
We haven't. But we're doing it.
So it feels so much more manageable.
And then I get this feel is this I hit my microphone. Sorry.
There's this dopamine release in my brain that tells me you're doing it.
You're accomplishing this task that you set out for.
But again, even still, because it's just how I've been wired my whole life.
I saw this as I want to watch this podcast.
And this is huge undertaking.
You know what? Just do a little bit at a time that you needed to go by mics for.
And you needed to go and get a soundboard and you need to go and get a new computer.
Because how can we by any means launch a mod cast without doing all these stupid things beforehand?
Yeah. But so I mean, but that is the difference between somebody with a fixed mindset
and a growth mindset. Just start doing it. Right. Stop putting all of these.
But it has to be perfect in place first because there is no perfect time for anything.
Right. But you perfect as you go.
So even starting our first episode, he's walking through the outline with me.
And I'm like, can we just start recording? Because I knew the first thing I was going to say was make fun of his outline.
Because I don't work that way. I do like having bull. I actually really enjoy that you did write an outline down
because it will help us stay on topic. But I am much more of a let's just see where this leads.
Right. Well, in the reality is once we get into it. So am I. Right. This flow is much better.
But it's also it relates to what we're talking about with the hair world, too. Totally.
You know, like the longer you put off learning that new technique or even better,
you have paid to look for it for a new technique or like a new extensions method or you paid for a new color line.
Yeah. But you you haven't started it yet.
You've learned it, but there's something stopping you from trying it on your first guest.
There's lots of different reasons to be afraid of it. Yeah. Just start. Just start.
And coming from someone who has switched color lines at least six times in my career.
You know, there will be imperfections. There will be times where it is screwed up.
Yeah. What's the worst thing that has to happen is that I'm doing their hair again, of course, on my dime and for free.
But it was see in my experience for me, that's not a failure. That's a learning moment.
Yeah. See, that's the thing you see it as education. Right. I learned what not to do. Right.
And then I learned how to fix it. Right. And I will say at the end of the day,
I mean, the absolute worst thing you can do is cut off too much hair or ruin their hair.
And that absolutely sucks. Like I will try everything within my power to not do that. Let's just say that. Right.
But if it means I'm paying for their extensions, then I'm paying for their extensions.
I mean, it's it's still never a fun experience.
And you don't do hair for as many years as I have and not screw up something. Sure. It's going to happen.
But you acknowledge ahead of time, too. I'm going to make mistakes. Yeah.
But you just you have to learn from those. You can't let them derail you. Yeah.
Well, so there are other things that these lead to. I mean, there's a lot.
But I wanted to bring up a couple more specifically that these actions will lead to this.
The ones that I'm thinking of are increased stress and anxiety.
We already have stress and anxieties that are placed on us from external sources. You agree? Oh, yeah.
I think regardless of the industry and there's very levels of that.
There are some industries that are less anxiety inducing and some that are more anxiety inducing.
But for us in our industry, why are we putting more stress and anxiety with things that are within our control? Right.
Like having a shift in our mindset.
Going back to this this idea of I've paid to learn this new this new color line or this new method of of doing hair.
But I'm not putting it in there because I don't I just don't know. I'm just I'm too afraid.
It'd be easier if that person if I could have one more class and but yada yada yada yada.
That's all within your control is taking that first step.
But the longer you put it off, the more anxiety you build up in yourself.
Yeah. Which often turns into low self-esteem.
Yeah. That's when you start to get imposter syndrome.
I feel I agree. I'm wrong. No, you're right.
Because you're you're convincing yourself that there's just something wrong and you're the problem.
I mean, in reality, I guess technically, yes.
But we don't need to say it like that. Well, no, because again, we're all learning.
Yeah. Like even that person that does this blonding technique better or new or this up and comer.
In my mind, I always kind of look at that and go.
Honestly, I feel like I could be there, too, if that was where I wanted to go with my career.
But that's just not I don't want to do that. That's not where and that's what and why can't that be fine?
I think for if someone isn't learning a new color technique or they like doing hair the way they're doing hair,
there is not a reason why they have to change that if they're still enjoying what they're doing.
Yeah. They just need to make sure they're getting that target market in their chair,
because I guarantee you, you will find people who like that also.
Yeah, I mean, if you're making the money that you want to make, if you're happy
and you're seeing the kind of guests that you want to see, don't change anything.
Yeah, you don't need to change. You don't need to be an educator. You don't have to be an influencer.
You don't have to post a thousand times a day and make sure you've got a million followers.
And you don't even have to have social media.
But that's your target market, your where you're directing your mindset is going to be different from where I'm directing mine.
Right. But again, plenty of fish in the sea. There are. And they're not all bass.
And there's a good one. One last one that I want to talk about before we end this episode.
And it's again, if that like I'm going to call them side effects of like imposter syndrome
and in comparing yourself and fear of failure and perfectionism.
And it's the reduced creativity. You tend to lose your creativity because so much of your mind,
which is where your creativity comes from, is is connected.
It's engaged elsewhere because, yeah, you're connected to the stress of.
I hate that I spent eight hundred dollars to learn this thing and I'm not even using it.
I hate that. I wish that they had taught that class better.
This the I mean, there's so many different things that could be stopping you.
It all leads to these really awful side effects.
And I think maybe arguably the worst one is a reduction in your creativity.
You're hindering your ability to do what makes you who you are, your creativity.
We have a lot of creative, creative people in this industry.
I mean, this industry like it's a magnet for creative people.
Oh, it totally is. In all different facets, like creative in very different ways.
Yeah, I will say that again, this comes down to the mindset, though.
I have spent money on education that I'll never use it ever because at the end of the day, I didn't like it.
Right. I can look at that as I can't believe I wasted all that money or I can look at it as well.
I learned something. I don't like that.
See, that blows my mind sometimes, even in the moment, because you would go and you'd spend money
and you learned this thing and then what you learned was this isn't for me.
Yeah, it didn't. It didn't compute the way I in my mind, it didn't compute the way I wanted it to.
Right. I love. But that's why I say you learn something in everything you do.
Yeah. And you have to have.
But if I were to be like, but I paid this much money, I have to do it.
That would take that would hinder my creativity. That would hinder me who I am.
And at the end of the day, I care about me and who I am.
It's fear of control. Right. I can't control what other people like.
And if you like them doing that method, then do that. Do it. Go there. That's not me.
Gosh, what? Like six years ago, everyone was doing the vivid colors.
And yes, I even got into that. I hate doing them. Those are not my.
You want rainbows in your hair? More power to you. I hate that.
It's not your thing. It's not my thing. Yeah. And so.
And that's fine. Totally. Yeah.
You know, you want to go and get that smoothing keratin treatment.
You want to go and get that. Like, it's just not my thing. I don't.
I don't personally see the need for it. Yeah.
I think a lot of people have been hoodwinked by it, but there are people who swear by it.
Right. The smoothie treatments. Yeah.
And there are some that are good and some that aren't.
Totally. And again, maybe they're better at it because they care more. Yeah.
But it's just I would rather refer them to that person. Yeah.
Who likes it and wants to learn more about it. And that's within their mindset. Right.
Then keep someone for that.
Well, and I think I want to do a shout out for a future episode where we will come back
and talk about building your brand because you're in a place where you can do that.
You don't have to take every one of the people that would come to you.
There will be future episodes about that for sure because I also, even straight out of beauty school, would do it different.
Not necessarily different than the way I did do it, but I would do it different depending on the stylist.
Again, I think there is a growth or an open mindset around how you do things straight out of school.
Yeah, I agree. Listen, thanks for tuning in today.
So happy that you're with us for this mindset series.
We're pretty excited to get to get through this. There's still more to come in the mindset series.
Probably one, maybe two more episodes just on mindset. So stay tuned and thanks again for listening.
Bye.