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How's it going everybody? Welcome to the Justin and Heidi Unfiltered Podcast. We are your

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hosts Justin Metcalf and Heidi Metcalf. We have a combined 34 years of experience in

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the beauty industry and we go into the different topics that shake our industry and make us

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strong and weak at the same time and share our opinions about it. So we're glad you're

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here. So today we're going to talk about mindset and how mindset matters. So have you ever

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noticed how two stylists with similar skill levels, similar experience can have two completely

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different career trajectories? Today we're going to talk about our findings where and

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it's often the difference lies in their mindset. So let's get into it. Yeah, let's get into

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it. I am now getting to talk because Justin didn't let me introduce myself, but I'm Heidi.

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And it's funny because when you get two different learning styles together, you get someone

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who creates an outline with bullet points and then you get the other person who just

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wings it. I'm the one that wings it. Can you tell we're married? So what's the importance

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of the mindset, Justin? The importance of the mindset is that it's my first day, so

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back off. No, the importance of the mindset, I think first is to define it because we've

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got to understand where we're coming from. We need to define what a mindset is because

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we need to be realistic. There are people out there who don't know what it is or they

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just have never really thought about it. So it doesn't really occur to them. So a mindset

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refers to a set of beliefs or attitudes that shape how you see the world and yourself.

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It influences the way you think, the way you feel and behave in different situations. So

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like think about a filter that colors your perceptions and guides your actions and the

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beliefs that you have about yourself, your attitude towards challenges, your responses

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to setbacks and your interpretation to feedback. So I believe we're talking about two different

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sets of mindset here. That's right. So what would be the first set? Well, so I think we

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think you can break it down to just two, there's just two types of mindsets. You've either

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got a fixed mindset or a growth mindset. And I think some could argue that there's an in-between,

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but really we're going to just, instead of arguing whether or not that's the case, we're

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going to focus on the difference between having a fixed mindset and having a growth mindset.

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Yeah. Luckily, luckily for you, we do agree that there really is just two sets of minds

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out there. I feel like through the course of this podcast series, there's going to be

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a lot of moments like that. Maybe. Yeah. We'll see. But yeah. So when we're talking about

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a fixed mindset, what's that look like? Well, I feel like the reason you're asking me is

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because I'm the expert in this field, the field of fixed mindset. Yeah, maybe. I come

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from a lot of experience having a fixed mindset. Fortunately, I have definitely shifted my

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mindset over the 21 years that we've been married blissfully as of this recording in

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2024. So I do know how it feels though with a fixed mindset, like with the belief system,

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your belief is that your abilities are fixed. They can't be changed. Meaning. So like when

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you would say to me, go do this, let's get even sillier. Okay. Go do the dishes. And

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I would know you want it done a certain way. And I would just believe, well, I don't know

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how to do it that way. I don't know how to do the dishes the way that you would like

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them done, Heidi, because that's how my brain works. Yes. So what would happen then? Nothing

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good. And I do want to keep this relatively PG. So I don't think we can even share details

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of our argument that ensued afterwards. But can you think of another example of a belief

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where I have told you in the past, I can't do that? Yes. Well, there's one that I think

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of specifically when we talk about our home life, I guess you could say. When something

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electronic happens or something needs to be fixed. And I don't know why we always think

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the man should be the one that fixes those things, but it's a belief out there that the

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man should be the one that fixes those things. So our oven went out. It was the heating element.

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Instead of buying a brand new oven, I thought we can fix the heating element. That's easy.

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I ordered the part on Amazon, told Justin to do it, didn't get done, didn't get done.

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He kept saying he would do it, didn't get done. His belief was, I don't know how to

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do that, but I know she's going to get mad at me if I tell her I'm not going to do it.

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So I'm just going to- Or if I do it wrong.

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Or if you do it wrong. Yeah. And then so then I finally get sick of it and fix the oven

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myself by watching a YouTube video. Right. So I guess my part of the fixed mindset that

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frustrates me is Google that shit. Like there is, I didn't know how to fix an oven. I had

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never done that before in my life. No, we're almost never the first people to run into

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the problem that we're facing. Almost never. Right. But at the same time, like if someone's

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got to have done it somewhere and now with all the technology that we have in the world

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today, especially that we have it this time of recording, and that's just now, there is

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like no reason we couldn't find the answer to that. Right. I mean, AI will write your

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freaking book for you. Right. So why not? Why not? Well, and it's funny now in retrospect,

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I think back of that time that I do remember vividly, I don't know how, where I'm at right

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now anyway, I don't know how I could have been in that moment where I didn't think of

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the sequence of events. Looking back now, I'm like, well, make up your mind, do something.

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How did I not realize that at some point my decision to both not do it and say that I

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do it would end poorly? Would not end poorly. How did that not cross your mind? Yeah. I

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don't know. I don't know. But that's the beauty of hindsight, which I think is the, basically

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the motivation for us doing this podcast and starting with mindset matters because we do

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have 34 years experience combined in the hair world, but we also have been married 21 years.

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We're in our forties. We've got a lot of experience with the world. So then again, seriously,

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in all seriousness, I have more experience with a fixed mindset because it's just how

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I've been most of my life. And you have a lot more experience with an open mind and

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a growth mindset. So I think we're perfect for this. So let's talk about like what the

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focus is for fixed mindset versus a growth mindset. The focus is proving your intelligence

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rather than learning and growing. So there's still that moment of commitment like, well,

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I could do that. I don't need to learn more about, I don't need to look up a YouTube video.

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I don't, or in the hair world, I went to school. I don't have to take more classes. Continue

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my education. Right. What's the point? Right. I'm licensed. Yeah. I already got that. Right.

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But in today's world, I mean, look at our phones alone. Those are changing every six

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months. There's a new phone out there with something new added. So to tell yourself that

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you don't need something or that that, how is that valuable? Where is that going to place

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you? Already you're at a fixed mindset. Right. Because, and here's the other thing that I

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run into on a daily basis is nobody wants to look like a learner when they've already

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been licensed for something. But again, with technology changing all the time, we're constantly

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learning. Right. So wouldn't you say then it's that much easier to fall behind? Oh,

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I see it daily. Yeah. I mean, if you're, if you walk into any salon, it's, it's the 80

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20 rule. There's always 20% of the stylists in every salon that are at the bottom. Yeah.

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And why are they at the bottom? Because of their mindset. Yeah. It's mindset. It always

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starts with mindset because if they were in the top 20, then they would be continuing

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their education. And a lot of times the way I look at continuing my education isn't because

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I don't know something, but it's to keep me on track. Right. But I also learn something

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every time I do it. Even if I go to the same class over and over and over again, I always

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learn something new because just the viewpoint of somebody else in that class might change

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how I thought I saw something. Well, yeah, there are a lot of aspects to that. Yeah.

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I mean, other people sharing at the moment, it's the same course material, but you're

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right. If somebody else in the class has a different point of view, but also your frame

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of mind, it could be different. It most definitely would be different because we're ever evolving

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and ever changing people six months apart from the, from the two classes, you're going

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to be different frame of mind. So you're going to retain different information. You're going

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to hear different information. It's still the same stuff being told, but what you retain

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is different. Yeah. And the thing that I think I run into that can be the hardest is those

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fixed mindsets. A lot of times it's the 34 years of combined experience or whatever that

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makes you more fixed because I have this much experience, somebody who's been in the industry,

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one, two, three, four, five years, there's no way they can know this above me. Right.

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I've seen that be detrimental to from a seasoned stylist who has fallen behind the times they

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don't have, they don't have Instagram and they don't have a way to attract today's newest

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generation of spenders, people with money. And they don't want to hear from a millennial

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or a Gen Z about how they're making money. And it's, I understand it. There's definitely

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that pride element, but it still comes down to that's just a fixed mindset and you're

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not allowing yourself to grow, which gets us into the next portion, which is responding

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to challenges. So specifically a stylist who has reached the point where they're, they're

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not doing anything to attract new guests. So what they have is their current portfolio

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of guests and they're losing them because you're going to lose them by attrition. People

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move away, people die, people stop wanting to come and see you. They want something new

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and you're not willing to change. Right. So there's always going to be some attrition.

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It's always been the case, but. And you'll have your bread and butter clients is what

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we call them. The ones that they love what they're getting. They love the way you're

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doing it and they don't want to change that. I mean, humans don't like change very much

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either. Yeah. Which is ironic because what's one thing we constantly do. Change. Yeah.

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Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah. It is ironic, right? It is. It's, it's, yeah. Very ironic, but

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it's true. We're constantly changing. Everything is changing. Our industry changes constantly.

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So when you, when you close yourself off and that becomes your response to challenges with

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the fixed mindset, you again, in another way inhibit your growth, which is why you get

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into the point where I don't know how to get new clients. And then unfortunately some people

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further way further on in their career, maybe in their fifties or sixties, they feel like

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they're past the point of no return. They don't have the option now. Well, now it's

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too late. You know, an arguments could be made that maybe it's not too late, but the

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reality is that our focus should just be on trying to help people avoid getting to that

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point. Yeah. Definitely trying to help avoid getting to that point because honestly, once

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you get to that point, if you're in that fixed mindset, we can't change that for you anyway.

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It's hard. Yeah. But I mean, my friend, one of the stylists that I worked with, gosh,

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it's probably been six years now, but before COVID she looked at me and said, do you really

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expect to be working behind the chair the rest of your life? Well, yeah, at the time

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I, well, and I still say the same thing. Yes, I do. I do expect to work behind the chair.

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Do I expect to be doing the exact same work that I was even six years ago? Well, no, I

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hope that it changes. I hope that I grow. I hope that I do something different maybe,

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but at the same time, I still like doing hair. Like I don't see that as a problem and hairdressers

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know it's not easy on the body. I mean, there is a point in which like, if you haven't been

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taking care of yourself properly, it's not going to be something that you can do well

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into your seventies and eighties. I don't know. But I would hope by the time I get to

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that point, I've gained enough knowledge and have an open enough mindset that the next

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generation still wants to hear from me, that I can still be a valuable asset and not somebody

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who has just done it the same way for 50 years and nobody wants to learn that because that

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was 50 years ago. Nobody's doing that. Like again, it all comes down to mindset. Yeah.

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Well, which is why this topic is so vast. I mean, we're probably going to do three podcasts

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just to start off our series and it's all going to be on mindset, but we could easily

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come back to this with more insight and more thoughts because it's just, there's so much

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to dive into here. And one of the things you were talking about, like, I mean, it kind

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of leads into our next section view, how people view setbacks. So people with a fixed mindset,

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how do, how do we view setbacks as failures, failures, and you almost won't even like come

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back from that. You won't even touch it again. You won't even try that because it didn't

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work. Yeah. Or even some cases it was traumatizing, traumatizing. So like education, for instance,

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when COVID shut us all down, so many stylists had to do virtual education. There was no

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hands on, there was no way of doing anything continued. So many had such a fixed mindset

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on I tried that. I just can't do, I have to have someone in person. Right. I can, with

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the technology we have to be saying that you just have to do it in person. Now don't get

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me wrong. There is value in, in person too. But to think that you can only do it one way,

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all you're doing is limiting yourself. Why limit yourself? Right. Why make that? I can

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only learn this if I do a, now how you tell me if someone does a one day course in eight

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hours, first of all, brain fry. Okay. Oh yeah. I mean, talk to any hairdresser who's worked

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eight hours, an eight hour straight shift. Right. They don't even, they don't go home.

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They sit in their car for 20 minutes with the radio turned off and drive mindlessly

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home. Right. Come on, stylist. You all know what I'm talking about. Right. And yet you're

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telling me you want to go to an eight hour class and you're going to go back and do that.

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Whatever you learned perfectly with the first client behind your chair. I did those classes.

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First client that sat behind my chair. I went, how do I start? Who do I call? Right. Right.

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What do I do? Yeah. Let me look at my notes. Oh yeah. I'm a hairdresser. I suck at taking

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notes. Let me look at the pictures. Well, it was a blurry picture. I didn't notice at

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the time, but I can't see. Whereas, or you can, you can learn in a different way where

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there's a manual, there's a mentor, there's a virtual training, there's videos, at least

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something to go back to. Right. Plus somebody that you can reach out to who is hands on

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with you. Now you tell me which one's more valuable, but because of a fixed mindset,

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there are so many stylists, so many people out there. I'm sure there are training courses

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for other industries that are the same. Yeah. That they're just like, Nope, can't do it.

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Okay. Well, that's kind of what one thing that we talked about before actually recording

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is that a lot of this stuff we're going to talk about, it's, it's pretty universal. Like

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this could easily be tied into banking or homemaking or, you know, lots of different

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industries and important jobs. But as we talk about specifically stylists, because that's

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where a field has been primarily. Um, but these, these setbacks that stop people in

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their tracks are, are damning in a lot of ways. And that's what hinders, there's almost

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a lot of times where people who have reached that point in their career where there's just

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nowhere to go. It was maybe one big setback that they could pinpoint. You know, if this

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moment hadn't happened, but then with this mindset of, you know, the fixed mindset, that

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becomes the excuse. And it's a crutch because then you could just say, well, if it weren't

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for this, you know, I'd be in better shape. You know, if COVID has it. So we, we lost

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our salon that we own together. We bought it in 2016. We, we grew it more than triple

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the sales revenue and we're doing pretty well. And then when we get back from COVID, we just

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couldn't survive. We had mass walkouts. We chose not to survive. Well, I will say this,

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I, I did not want to continue doing it. I was not, my passion wasn't in the salon owning

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business and I could tell your passion was also not there. Right. If, cause I don't have,

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now you might view that differently because you do have more of a fixed mindset than I

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do. I think you're right. Yeah. I do that kind of differently, but still when we tell

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the story and I noticed our story of how that happened is different when we tell people

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what happened. Yeah. You don't listen to my story because I don't tell it, but that's

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okay because it's, it is one of those where I don't correct your story because it's fine

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that you believe that. But for me, we easily could have turned that around. We could have

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turned that around. We could have made it an even bigger salon had we had the passion

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for that business. I was not passionate about being a salon owner. I got to a point. I hate

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babysitting. I'm not a babysitter. I've never wanted to be a babysitter and I'll be honest.

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I never wanted to own a salon. There are a lot of hairdressers that are the opposite

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of me on that trajectory. Right. But everyone's got a wheelhouse. Everyone's got a wheelhouse.

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Everyone's got a niche. I love working with clients. I love working behind the chair and

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I love educating. Like those are the things that I love. Yeah. Being a salon owner, I'll

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be honest. You're a babysitter and it's not necessarily a bad thing. It can be so rewarding

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and it can be so great. Right. But you gotta, there is so much more you salon owners are

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rock stars, honestly, because there is so much more to leading a team and being a good

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leader to have a successful salon. Yeah. Then just being a hairdresser and working behind

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the chair. I think that I agree. And I think that can be said for both commissioned salons

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and booth rental salons. For sure. And blended. Oh, for sure. Ours was blended. And there's

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so many things that I think, oh, if I did it again, I'd do that completely different.

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And there are, there are so many things that if I did do it again, I would do it completely

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different. Yeah. But it is true. I don't care. Anyone who owns a salon, whether it be suites

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even, but a blended salon, a commissioned salon, a booth rent salon, to make that salon

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successful, you gotta do so much more than just what you're doing behind the chair. It

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takes, yeah. The skill kit, the skillset for running a salon definitely is broader than

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just the skillset of, of a stylist or a banker, which was my original background. So I agree.

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And I think that one other thing we can agree on in terms of telling our story of how we

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closed our doors is that we don't blame COVID. COVID was an opportunity for us to see when

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we came back and things happened the way that they happened, it gave us an opportunity to

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see, yes, we could turn this around. You say easily. I didn't see it quite that well. But

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again, I was definitely more of a fixed mindset, especially at that point. I didn't think,

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I mean, I totally agree. We didn't have the passion to put in the work that it would have

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taken. And we're both very happy with the roads that we have taken as a result. Correct.

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But I think the point here is that a lot of people I know could very easily just say,

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oh, you know what COVID, you know, COVID ruined our salon. And every time I've even been tempted

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to say that, because, hey, I don't have to tell people that our salon failed. I don't

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have to tell people that COVID did it. It just didn't feel right. Because COVID didn't

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cause our salon to fail. We chose to not build it back up when we hit a massive roadblock.

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And it was the right choice for us. Right. I don't regret that choice ever. But it's also

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definitely a testament to business owners who are in business together and people that are

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married to each other, which we were, can have, and still are, we are still married.

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It's good we point that out. You can work things out when one has a fixed mindset and the other

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has a growth mindset. Because at the end of the day, we still had different things that we brought

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to the table. Right. Yeah. But I will say this, from somebody who worked with someone with a fixed

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mindset, the owning a business together was not easy. No, it was not. And the next thing we're

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going to talk about is feedback. And that was one of the biggest issues that we've ever run into

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in our salon ownership together. We'll have to get Shelby on the podcast one day. Oh my gosh,

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we should. Especially the snowblower. That's what I was thinking about. Yes. I'm sending, as soon as we

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launch this, I'm sending this to Shelby. We're going to shout her out. We had an amazing business

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coach from Summit Salons. Her name is Shelby Geist, and she was an absolute rock star.

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She is definitely part of the reason that we were able to grow from, I mean, when we walked into the

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salon, it was just over six figures. In our last year, we were over 300,000. Like it was great,

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but boy, it took a lot of work. But anyway, so feedback. When I would get feedback from you,

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Heidi, would you say, be gentle? I promise nothing.

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How would you describe my receipt of that feedback? You know, I would say,

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kind of like the rest of our marriage, you would say the right things, but the doing, the action

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behind it was never followed through. So if I told you something, you would listen, you would give

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the right nods at the right time, say the right words at the right time. But as far as actually

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following through, doing the action items, taking and implementing the feedback I'm giving you,

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that didn't happen. It just didn't. I don't like this feedback. I'm not liking this.

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Yeah. But no, I, okay. Yeah. It's a mindset. Not surprised.

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From my point of view, and I think I've shared this many times, when you would get into the mode

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of, okay, you're going to start sharing feedback, my walls went up. Oh, completely. Because you

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came at me with a tone that I didn't like. Which can I just reiterate here, no matter what tone I

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had, he was not going to like it. No, I think you're, you're not wrong. And I think I did say

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that properly. Yeah. I didn't like the tone. An excuse would have definitely been, you came at me

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full bitch mode. And that's, that's not it. That's not what happened. No, I interpreted your tone

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as hostile. Yeah. So my walls would go up and we were not talking about nothing. And I'd get so

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defensive because you were attacking me. You were, you were launching cows on catapults over the

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walls of my castle. So Monty Python. I think every episode is probably going to have a good reference.

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And I did not take, so that's, that's the thing with a fixed mindset feedback becomes something

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that you see as criticism and personal attacks or a reflection of, of their inadequacies. Now,

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could you have said it differently and been like super nice and sweet about it? Yeah. And I was,

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and I did, you did, but even then, but it doesn't matter. No, cause the feedback, just the fact that

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you were getting feedback on a performance that you thought you had done 100% at your best. There

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was nothing you could have done differently to get a better outcome, which goes back to the focus

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and the belief of, I believe this is all I could do. Right. Yeah. It doesn't matter what I would

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have said to you, right. You in that moment, believe that you could have done something different.

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Right. You in that moment believed no, because even it, because that's all you could have done.

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You couldn't have done anything different or better, but you were kind enough because you

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have a growth mindset and you were open-minded when I would say to you at the end of these long

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drawn out fights that lasted till two in the morning, how are we going to end this? Well,

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maybe I don't know why I picture myself whimpering as we talk about this part, but maybe if you just

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try to have a different voice, I don't know how you got through those conversations, but you,

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you would, you'd come back, you'd try to have a different tone. You'd try to change the setting.

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And, and you're right. It's still, we didn't get anywhere. No, not until I realized much,

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much later, the issue lies with my mindset, my, how I'm seeing things. And, and then of course,

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there's, there's how people see learning. And I guess we kind of already covered this, but

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like learning on a fixed mindset is seen as threatening to your self-esteem.

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So again, with the same example, you're, you chuckle, but yeah, it was, okay, Justin, I want you to,

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I want you to learn how to do this the right way. My mind, that's you are an idiot. You're dumb,

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you're fat, you're bald. It's funny because it reminds me of the time where, okay, you know,

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I'm married to my husband and currently he's bald, but I did cut his hair before he got bald.

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Remember it wasn't when we were first married. It was, it was a little while into, but you know,

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showed me for your haircut, like three times in a row, in a row. And I was like, Oh, you don't

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understand. Like most people get a one, okay, one, I can understand, you know, let's not do that

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again. Two times no show. Like you just don't get scheduled again. You can text me. I'll tell you

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if I've got time that day or not. Three times you just, I just, I'll fit you in where I fit you in.

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That's what you get. And I remember asking you why you kept missing. And in your head, you thought,

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well, because I should just remember, I shouldn't have to have a reminder.

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And I thought you, that is the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. No, I, I do remember thinking that

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was, that was my reality at the moment was I should not have to have a reminder to come and

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get my haircut. And see now for me, nobody's going to be on my side now that you've told that story,

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by the way, no licensed cosmetologist in any state is going to listen to episode two or beyond and

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think Justin's good guy. That's what he's talking about. Cause you know, showed his wife three times

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and it was, it was one of those where I, I scheduled him during the day at a prime time kind of spot

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guys, right? Like we all know what the prime time spot is for each of us because he promised he

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promised he'd be there. And so it was, but yeah, after, well, after the second time I was like

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divorce, this is, this is grounds. Yeah. But it was worse. You almost cut me off from haircuts

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forever. Oh, I did. Yeah. We've got another story for that. I'm sure that'll come up in another

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podcast. But for me, my mindset at that point was I have an alarm that goes off on my phone for

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literally everything. Yeah. Because there's no way I can remember how to do or to pick up

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my kids. Okay. My youngest daughter is 13. She's an eighth grade. I've been picking up kids for

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20 years, 19 years. Yeah. And, uh, drop them off when they were two weeks old, but well, I did

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at daycare. That's right. Yeah. No, like literally, like they were like a month old. So no, I like 20

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years I've been picking up and dropping off kids somewhere. Right. I mean, 365. Okay. No, I don't

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work 365 days a year, but still five days a week for every year, 19 years, I still have an alarm

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that goes off on my phone to pick up my kids. And I think I can count on one hand the times that maybe

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you forgot. Right. Cause it still happens though. Well, and it's not even that I forgot is that the

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alarm goes off and I am still in the middle of a haircut. Like something happened to the day.

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Yeah. Whereas my situation, if I just didn't put it in my calendar and I'm like, well, I'll remember

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because it's important. And then you just don't even blow it off because you just, how dare you

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forget this important haircut. You should just remember. And I'm thinking that's the dumbest

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thing I've ever heard of. Well, and it was the dumbest thing you ever heard of. Still is. So,

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well, listen for now, we have, we, we want to keep these to like 30 to 35 minutes.

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So we're going to end this podcast, this episode. So we're getting into, uh, what is not a fixed

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mindset next time. We're going to get into growth mindset on the next episode. And, um, I really

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am super proud of myself for being able to sit through this bash session. I'm in such a good

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frame of mind in my, my mental health now is to the point where yes, we can sit here and we can

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talk. I did not know that you were going to bring up that particular story.

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And I think part of it, that's why you have an outline and I don't, I'm not sure I'm going to do

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outlines anymore. I mean, I spent hours on this thing and what's the point. We still hit the bullet

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points. I know, but at what cost. So anyway, thank you for listening to this episode. Please join us

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for our next episode where we talk about the good part of the mindset, the growth mindset.

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Thank you so much for listening. Thanks.