How's it going everybody? Welcome to the Justin and Heidi Unfiltered Podcast. We are your
hosts Justin Metcalf and Heidi Metcalf. We have a combined 34 years of experience in
the beauty industry and we go into the different topics that shake our industry and make us
strong and weak at the same time and share our opinions about it. So we're glad you're
here. So today we're going to talk about mindset and how mindset matters. So have you ever
noticed how two stylists with similar skill levels, similar experience can have two completely
different career trajectories? Today we're going to talk about our findings where and
it's often the difference lies in their mindset. So let's get into it. Yeah, let's get into
it. I am now getting to talk because Justin didn't let me introduce myself, but I'm Heidi.
And it's funny because when you get two different learning styles together, you get someone
who creates an outline with bullet points and then you get the other person who just
wings it. I'm the one that wings it. Can you tell we're married? So what's the importance
of the mindset, Justin? The importance of the mindset is that it's my first day, so
back off. No, the importance of the mindset, I think first is to define it because we've
got to understand where we're coming from. We need to define what a mindset is because
we need to be realistic. There are people out there who don't know what it is or they
just have never really thought about it. So it doesn't really occur to them. So a mindset
refers to a set of beliefs or attitudes that shape how you see the world and yourself.
It influences the way you think, the way you feel and behave in different situations. So
like think about a filter that colors your perceptions and guides your actions and the
beliefs that you have about yourself, your attitude towards challenges, your responses
to setbacks and your interpretation to feedback. So I believe we're talking about two different
sets of mindset here. That's right. So what would be the first set? Well, so I think we
think you can break it down to just two, there's just two types of mindsets. You've either
got a fixed mindset or a growth mindset. And I think some could argue that there's an in-between,
but really we're going to just, instead of arguing whether or not that's the case, we're
going to focus on the difference between having a fixed mindset and having a growth mindset.
Yeah. Luckily, luckily for you, we do agree that there really is just two sets of minds
out there. I feel like through the course of this podcast series, there's going to be
a lot of moments like that. Maybe. Yeah. We'll see. But yeah. So when we're talking about
a fixed mindset, what's that look like? Well, I feel like the reason you're asking me is
because I'm the expert in this field, the field of fixed mindset. Yeah, maybe. I come
from a lot of experience having a fixed mindset. Fortunately, I have definitely shifted my
mindset over the 21 years that we've been married blissfully as of this recording in
2024. So I do know how it feels though with a fixed mindset, like with the belief system,
your belief is that your abilities are fixed. They can't be changed. Meaning. So like when
you would say to me, go do this, let's get even sillier. Okay. Go do the dishes. And
I would know you want it done a certain way. And I would just believe, well, I don't know
how to do it that way. I don't know how to do the dishes the way that you would like
them done, Heidi, because that's how my brain works. Yes. So what would happen then? Nothing
good. And I do want to keep this relatively PG. So I don't think we can even share details
of our argument that ensued afterwards. But can you think of another example of a belief
where I have told you in the past, I can't do that? Yes. Well, there's one that I think
of specifically when we talk about our home life, I guess you could say. When something
electronic happens or something needs to be fixed. And I don't know why we always think
the man should be the one that fixes those things, but it's a belief out there that the
man should be the one that fixes those things. So our oven went out. It was the heating element.
Instead of buying a brand new oven, I thought we can fix the heating element. That's easy.
I ordered the part on Amazon, told Justin to do it, didn't get done, didn't get done.
He kept saying he would do it, didn't get done. His belief was, I don't know how to
do that, but I know she's going to get mad at me if I tell her I'm not going to do it.
So I'm just going to- Or if I do it wrong.
Or if you do it wrong. Yeah. And then so then I finally get sick of it and fix the oven
myself by watching a YouTube video. Right. So I guess my part of the fixed mindset that
frustrates me is Google that shit. Like there is, I didn't know how to fix an oven. I had
never done that before in my life. No, we're almost never the first people to run into
the problem that we're facing. Almost never. Right. But at the same time, like if someone's
got to have done it somewhere and now with all the technology that we have in the world
today, especially that we have it this time of recording, and that's just now, there is
like no reason we couldn't find the answer to that. Right. I mean, AI will write your
freaking book for you. Right. So why not? Why not? Well, and it's funny now in retrospect,
I think back of that time that I do remember vividly, I don't know how, where I'm at right
now anyway, I don't know how I could have been in that moment where I didn't think of
the sequence of events. Looking back now, I'm like, well, make up your mind, do something.
How did I not realize that at some point my decision to both not do it and say that I
do it would end poorly? Would not end poorly. How did that not cross your mind? Yeah. I
don't know. I don't know. But that's the beauty of hindsight, which I think is the, basically
the motivation for us doing this podcast and starting with mindset matters because we do
have 34 years experience combined in the hair world, but we also have been married 21 years.
We're in our forties. We've got a lot of experience with the world. So then again, seriously,
in all seriousness, I have more experience with a fixed mindset because it's just how
I've been most of my life. And you have a lot more experience with an open mind and
a growth mindset. So I think we're perfect for this. So let's talk about like what the
focus is for fixed mindset versus a growth mindset. The focus is proving your intelligence
rather than learning and growing. So there's still that moment of commitment like, well,
I could do that. I don't need to learn more about, I don't need to look up a YouTube video.
I don't, or in the hair world, I went to school. I don't have to take more classes. Continue
my education. Right. What's the point? Right. I'm licensed. Yeah. I already got that. Right.
But in today's world, I mean, look at our phones alone. Those are changing every six
months. There's a new phone out there with something new added. So to tell yourself that
you don't need something or that that, how is that valuable? Where is that going to place
you? Already you're at a fixed mindset. Right. Because, and here's the other thing that I
run into on a daily basis is nobody wants to look like a learner when they've already
been licensed for something. But again, with technology changing all the time, we're constantly
learning. Right. So wouldn't you say then it's that much easier to fall behind? Oh,
I see it daily. Yeah. I mean, if you're, if you walk into any salon, it's, it's the 80
20 rule. There's always 20% of the stylists in every salon that are at the bottom. Yeah.
And why are they at the bottom? Because of their mindset. Yeah. It's mindset. It always
starts with mindset because if they were in the top 20, then they would be continuing
their education. And a lot of times the way I look at continuing my education isn't because
I don't know something, but it's to keep me on track. Right. But I also learn something
every time I do it. Even if I go to the same class over and over and over again, I always
learn something new because just the viewpoint of somebody else in that class might change
how I thought I saw something. Well, yeah, there are a lot of aspects to that. Yeah.
I mean, other people sharing at the moment, it's the same course material, but you're
right. If somebody else in the class has a different point of view, but also your frame
of mind, it could be different. It most definitely would be different because we're ever evolving
and ever changing people six months apart from the, from the two classes, you're going
to be different frame of mind. So you're going to retain different information. You're going
to hear different information. It's still the same stuff being told, but what you retain
is different. Yeah. And the thing that I think I run into that can be the hardest is those
fixed mindsets. A lot of times it's the 34 years of combined experience or whatever that
makes you more fixed because I have this much experience, somebody who's been in the industry,
one, two, three, four, five years, there's no way they can know this above me. Right.
I've seen that be detrimental to from a seasoned stylist who has fallen behind the times they
don't have, they don't have Instagram and they don't have a way to attract today's newest
generation of spenders, people with money. And they don't want to hear from a millennial
or a Gen Z about how they're making money. And it's, I understand it. There's definitely
that pride element, but it still comes down to that's just a fixed mindset and you're
not allowing yourself to grow, which gets us into the next portion, which is responding
to challenges. So specifically a stylist who has reached the point where they're, they're
not doing anything to attract new guests. So what they have is their current portfolio
of guests and they're losing them because you're going to lose them by attrition. People
move away, people die, people stop wanting to come and see you. They want something new
and you're not willing to change. Right. So there's always going to be some attrition.
It's always been the case, but. And you'll have your bread and butter clients is what
we call them. The ones that they love what they're getting. They love the way you're
doing it and they don't want to change that. I mean, humans don't like change very much
either. Yeah. Which is ironic because what's one thing we constantly do. Change. Yeah.
Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah. It is ironic, right? It is. It's, it's, yeah. Very ironic, but
it's true. We're constantly changing. Everything is changing. Our industry changes constantly.
So when you, when you close yourself off and that becomes your response to challenges with
the fixed mindset, you again, in another way inhibit your growth, which is why you get
into the point where I don't know how to get new clients. And then unfortunately some people
further way further on in their career, maybe in their fifties or sixties, they feel like
they're past the point of no return. They don't have the option now. Well, now it's
too late. You know, an arguments could be made that maybe it's not too late, but the
reality is that our focus should just be on trying to help people avoid getting to that
point. Yeah. Definitely trying to help avoid getting to that point because honestly, once
you get to that point, if you're in that fixed mindset, we can't change that for you anyway.
It's hard. Yeah. But I mean, my friend, one of the stylists that I worked with, gosh,
it's probably been six years now, but before COVID she looked at me and said, do you really
expect to be working behind the chair the rest of your life? Well, yeah, at the time
I, well, and I still say the same thing. Yes, I do. I do expect to work behind the chair.
Do I expect to be doing the exact same work that I was even six years ago? Well, no, I
hope that it changes. I hope that I grow. I hope that I do something different maybe,
but at the same time, I still like doing hair. Like I don't see that as a problem and hairdressers
know it's not easy on the body. I mean, there is a point in which like, if you haven't been
taking care of yourself properly, it's not going to be something that you can do well
into your seventies and eighties. I don't know. But I would hope by the time I get to
that point, I've gained enough knowledge and have an open enough mindset that the next
generation still wants to hear from me, that I can still be a valuable asset and not somebody
who has just done it the same way for 50 years and nobody wants to learn that because that
was 50 years ago. Nobody's doing that. Like again, it all comes down to mindset. Yeah.
Well, which is why this topic is so vast. I mean, we're probably going to do three podcasts
just to start off our series and it's all going to be on mindset, but we could easily
come back to this with more insight and more thoughts because it's just, there's so much
to dive into here. And one of the things you were talking about, like, I mean, it kind
of leads into our next section view, how people view setbacks. So people with a fixed mindset,
how do, how do we view setbacks as failures, failures, and you almost won't even like come
back from that. You won't even touch it again. You won't even try that because it didn't
work. Yeah. Or even some cases it was traumatizing, traumatizing. So like education, for instance,
when COVID shut us all down, so many stylists had to do virtual education. There was no
hands on, there was no way of doing anything continued. So many had such a fixed mindset
on I tried that. I just can't do, I have to have someone in person. Right. I can, with
the technology we have to be saying that you just have to do it in person. Now don't get
me wrong. There is value in, in person too. But to think that you can only do it one way,
all you're doing is limiting yourself. Why limit yourself? Right. Why make that? I can
only learn this if I do a, now how you tell me if someone does a one day course in eight
hours, first of all, brain fry. Okay. Oh yeah. I mean, talk to any hairdresser who's worked
eight hours, an eight hour straight shift. Right. They don't even, they don't go home.
They sit in their car for 20 minutes with the radio turned off and drive mindlessly
home. Right. Come on, stylist. You all know what I'm talking about. Right. And yet you're
telling me you want to go to an eight hour class and you're going to go back and do that.
Whatever you learned perfectly with the first client behind your chair. I did those classes.
First client that sat behind my chair. I went, how do I start? Who do I call? Right. Right.
What do I do? Yeah. Let me look at my notes. Oh yeah. I'm a hairdresser. I suck at taking
notes. Let me look at the pictures. Well, it was a blurry picture. I didn't notice at
the time, but I can't see. Whereas, or you can, you can learn in a different way where
there's a manual, there's a mentor, there's a virtual training, there's videos, at least
something to go back to. Right. Plus somebody that you can reach out to who is hands on
with you. Now you tell me which one's more valuable, but because of a fixed mindset,
there are so many stylists, so many people out there. I'm sure there are training courses
for other industries that are the same. Yeah. That they're just like, Nope, can't do it.
Okay. Well, that's kind of what one thing that we talked about before actually recording
is that a lot of this stuff we're going to talk about, it's, it's pretty universal. Like
this could easily be tied into banking or homemaking or, you know, lots of different
industries and important jobs. But as we talk about specifically stylists, because that's
where a field has been primarily. Um, but these, these setbacks that stop people in
their tracks are, are damning in a lot of ways. And that's what hinders, there's almost
a lot of times where people who have reached that point in their career where there's just
nowhere to go. It was maybe one big setback that they could pinpoint. You know, if this
moment hadn't happened, but then with this mindset of, you know, the fixed mindset, that
becomes the excuse. And it's a crutch because then you could just say, well, if it weren't
for this, you know, I'd be in better shape. You know, if COVID has it. So we, we lost
our salon that we own together. We bought it in 2016. We, we grew it more than triple
the sales revenue and we're doing pretty well. And then when we get back from COVID, we just
couldn't survive. We had mass walkouts. We chose not to survive. Well, I will say this,
I, I did not want to continue doing it. I was not, my passion wasn't in the salon owning
business and I could tell your passion was also not there. Right. If, cause I don't have,
now you might view that differently because you do have more of a fixed mindset than I
do. I think you're right. Yeah. I do that kind of differently, but still when we tell
the story and I noticed our story of how that happened is different when we tell people
what happened. Yeah. You don't listen to my story because I don't tell it, but that's
okay because it's, it is one of those where I don't correct your story because it's fine
that you believe that. But for me, we easily could have turned that around. We could have
turned that around. We could have made it an even bigger salon had we had the passion
for that business. I was not passionate about being a salon owner. I got to a point. I hate
babysitting. I'm not a babysitter. I've never wanted to be a babysitter and I'll be honest.
I never wanted to own a salon. There are a lot of hairdressers that are the opposite
of me on that trajectory. Right. But everyone's got a wheelhouse. Everyone's got a wheelhouse.
Everyone's got a niche. I love working with clients. I love working behind the chair and
I love educating. Like those are the things that I love. Yeah. Being a salon owner, I'll
be honest. You're a babysitter and it's not necessarily a bad thing. It can be so rewarding
and it can be so great. Right. But you gotta, there is so much more you salon owners are
rock stars, honestly, because there is so much more to leading a team and being a good
leader to have a successful salon. Yeah. Then just being a hairdresser and working behind
the chair. I think that I agree. And I think that can be said for both commissioned salons
and booth rental salons. For sure. And blended. Oh, for sure. Ours was blended. And there's
so many things that I think, oh, if I did it again, I'd do that completely different.
And there are, there are so many things that if I did do it again, I would do it completely
different. Yeah. But it is true. I don't care. Anyone who owns a salon, whether it be suites
even, but a blended salon, a commissioned salon, a booth rent salon, to make that salon
successful, you gotta do so much more than just what you're doing behind the chair. It
takes, yeah. The skill kit, the skillset for running a salon definitely is broader than
just the skillset of, of a stylist or a banker, which was my original background. So I agree.
And I think that one other thing we can agree on in terms of telling our story of how we
closed our doors is that we don't blame COVID. COVID was an opportunity for us to see when
we came back and things happened the way that they happened, it gave us an opportunity to
see, yes, we could turn this around. You say easily. I didn't see it quite that well. But
again, I was definitely more of a fixed mindset, especially at that point. I didn't think,
I mean, I totally agree. We didn't have the passion to put in the work that it would have
taken. And we're both very happy with the roads that we have taken as a result. Correct.
But I think the point here is that a lot of people I know could very easily just say,
oh, you know what COVID, you know, COVID ruined our salon. And every time I've even been tempted
to say that, because, hey, I don't have to tell people that our salon failed. I don't
have to tell people that COVID did it. It just didn't feel right. Because COVID didn't
cause our salon to fail. We chose to not build it back up when we hit a massive roadblock.
And it was the right choice for us. Right. I don't regret that choice ever. But it's also
definitely a testament to business owners who are in business together and people that are
married to each other, which we were, can have, and still are, we are still married.
It's good we point that out. You can work things out when one has a fixed mindset and the other
has a growth mindset. Because at the end of the day, we still had different things that we brought
to the table. Right. Yeah. But I will say this, from somebody who worked with someone with a fixed
mindset, the owning a business together was not easy. No, it was not. And the next thing we're
going to talk about is feedback. And that was one of the biggest issues that we've ever run into
in our salon ownership together. We'll have to get Shelby on the podcast one day. Oh my gosh,
we should. Especially the snowblower. That's what I was thinking about. Yes. I'm sending, as soon as we
launch this, I'm sending this to Shelby. We're going to shout her out. We had an amazing business
coach from Summit Salons. Her name is Shelby Geist, and she was an absolute rock star.
She is definitely part of the reason that we were able to grow from, I mean, when we walked into the
salon, it was just over six figures. In our last year, we were over 300,000. Like it was great,
but boy, it took a lot of work. But anyway, so feedback. When I would get feedback from you,
Heidi, would you say, be gentle? I promise nothing.
How would you describe my receipt of that feedback? You know, I would say,
kind of like the rest of our marriage, you would say the right things, but the doing, the action
behind it was never followed through. So if I told you something, you would listen, you would give
the right nods at the right time, say the right words at the right time. But as far as actually
following through, doing the action items, taking and implementing the feedback I'm giving you,
that didn't happen. It just didn't. I don't like this feedback. I'm not liking this.
Yeah. But no, I, okay. Yeah. It's a mindset. Not surprised.
From my point of view, and I think I've shared this many times, when you would get into the mode
of, okay, you're going to start sharing feedback, my walls went up. Oh, completely. Because you
came at me with a tone that I didn't like. Which can I just reiterate here, no matter what tone I
had, he was not going to like it. No, I think you're, you're not wrong. And I think I did say
that properly. Yeah. I didn't like the tone. An excuse would have definitely been, you came at me
full bitch mode. And that's, that's not it. That's not what happened. No, I interpreted your tone
as hostile. Yeah. So my walls would go up and we were not talking about nothing. And I'd get so
defensive because you were attacking me. You were, you were launching cows on catapults over the
walls of my castle. So Monty Python. I think every episode is probably going to have a good reference.
And I did not take, so that's, that's the thing with a fixed mindset feedback becomes something
that you see as criticism and personal attacks or a reflection of, of their inadequacies. Now,
could you have said it differently and been like super nice and sweet about it? Yeah. And I was,
and I did, you did, but even then, but it doesn't matter. No, cause the feedback, just the fact that
you were getting feedback on a performance that you thought you had done 100% at your best. There
was nothing you could have done differently to get a better outcome, which goes back to the focus
and the belief of, I believe this is all I could do. Right. Yeah. It doesn't matter what I would
have said to you, right. You in that moment, believe that you could have done something different.
Right. You in that moment believed no, because even it, because that's all you could have done.
You couldn't have done anything different or better, but you were kind enough because you
have a growth mindset and you were open-minded when I would say to you at the end of these long
drawn out fights that lasted till two in the morning, how are we going to end this? Well,
maybe I don't know why I picture myself whimpering as we talk about this part, but maybe if you just
try to have a different voice, I don't know how you got through those conversations, but you,
you would, you'd come back, you'd try to have a different tone. You'd try to change the setting.
And, and you're right. It's still, we didn't get anywhere. No, not until I realized much,
much later, the issue lies with my mindset, my, how I'm seeing things. And, and then of course,
there's, there's how people see learning. And I guess we kind of already covered this, but
like learning on a fixed mindset is seen as threatening to your self-esteem.
So again, with the same example, you're, you chuckle, but yeah, it was, okay, Justin, I want you to,
I want you to learn how to do this the right way. My mind, that's you are an idiot. You're dumb,
you're fat, you're bald. It's funny because it reminds me of the time where, okay, you know,
I'm married to my husband and currently he's bald, but I did cut his hair before he got bald.
Remember it wasn't when we were first married. It was, it was a little while into, but you know,
showed me for your haircut, like three times in a row, in a row. And I was like, Oh, you don't
understand. Like most people get a one, okay, one, I can understand, you know, let's not do that
again. Two times no show. Like you just don't get scheduled again. You can text me. I'll tell you
if I've got time that day or not. Three times you just, I just, I'll fit you in where I fit you in.
That's what you get. And I remember asking you why you kept missing. And in your head, you thought,
well, because I should just remember, I shouldn't have to have a reminder.
And I thought you, that is the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. No, I, I do remember thinking that
was, that was my reality at the moment was I should not have to have a reminder to come and
get my haircut. And see now for me, nobody's going to be on my side now that you've told that story,
by the way, no licensed cosmetologist in any state is going to listen to episode two or beyond and
think Justin's good guy. That's what he's talking about. Cause you know, showed his wife three times
and it was, it was one of those where I, I scheduled him during the day at a prime time kind of spot
guys, right? Like we all know what the prime time spot is for each of us because he promised he
promised he'd be there. And so it was, but yeah, after, well, after the second time I was like
divorce, this is, this is grounds. Yeah. But it was worse. You almost cut me off from haircuts
forever. Oh, I did. Yeah. We've got another story for that. I'm sure that'll come up in another
podcast. But for me, my mindset at that point was I have an alarm that goes off on my phone for
literally everything. Yeah. Because there's no way I can remember how to do or to pick up
my kids. Okay. My youngest daughter is 13. She's an eighth grade. I've been picking up kids for
20 years, 19 years. Yeah. And, uh, drop them off when they were two weeks old, but well, I did
at daycare. That's right. Yeah. No, like literally, like they were like a month old. So no, I like 20
years I've been picking up and dropping off kids somewhere. Right. I mean, 365. Okay. No, I don't
work 365 days a year, but still five days a week for every year, 19 years, I still have an alarm
that goes off on my phone to pick up my kids. And I think I can count on one hand the times that maybe
you forgot. Right. Cause it still happens though. Well, and it's not even that I forgot is that the
alarm goes off and I am still in the middle of a haircut. Like something happened to the day.
Yeah. Whereas my situation, if I just didn't put it in my calendar and I'm like, well, I'll remember
because it's important. And then you just don't even blow it off because you just, how dare you
forget this important haircut. You should just remember. And I'm thinking that's the dumbest
thing I've ever heard of. Well, and it was the dumbest thing you ever heard of. Still is. So,
well, listen for now, we have, we, we want to keep these to like 30 to 35 minutes.
So we're going to end this podcast, this episode. So we're getting into, uh, what is not a fixed
mindset next time. We're going to get into growth mindset on the next episode. And, um, I really
am super proud of myself for being able to sit through this bash session. I'm in such a good
frame of mind in my, my mental health now is to the point where yes, we can sit here and we can
talk. I did not know that you were going to bring up that particular story.
And I think part of it, that's why you have an outline and I don't, I'm not sure I'm going to do
outlines anymore. I mean, I spent hours on this thing and what's the point. We still hit the bullet
points. I know, but at what cost. So anyway, thank you for listening to this episode. Please join us
for our next episode where we talk about the good part of the mindset, the growth mindset.
Thank you so much for listening. Thanks.