Teyshi (00:18)
Hello everyone and welcome to this week's episode of Kashmir Exists! Now today, episode is a very important episode. It's about the Kashmir attack, which most people who are interested in current affairs will have heard of. And to help me discuss it and pull apart the facts and also get a unique perspective, a Kashmiri perspective, I have with me sister Sanaz, who is a fellow Kashmiri. Salaam-alaikum Sanaz.

It's so, we're all trying to get our heads around what's going on, but you know what? It's so great to have you here. You're the second Kashmiri I've had on this podcast.

Sanaz (00:56)
Thank you so much for having me.

Teyshi (00:58)
it is really great to have you here because I feel like this is probably one of the most important episodes simply because these podcasts talk a lot about the occupation of Kashmir. But this is the first time that we've got the opportunity to look at

how Kashmir suffers in real time. what I thought I would do is preface the conversation we're about to have as two Kashmiris especially in the diaspora, getting our head around what's going on, is I thought I would read an excerpt of what the news is saying about it. So if you're ready, I'll carry on.

So to summarize the attack, the Washington Post, for example, says on April 22nd, 2025, four armed militants launched a brutal attack on tourists at Baisaran Meadow near Pahalgam in Anantnag, district of Jammu and Kashmir. The assailants emerged from nearby forests and opened fire at close range, resulting in the deaths of 26 individuals.

Sanaz (01:39)
Okay.

Teyshi (02:02)
25 Indian nationals and one Nepalese tourist and

injuring over 20 others. Witnesses reported that the attackers specifically targeted male tourists, sparing women and left behind chilling messages intended for Indian leadership. Okay, so before we talk about anything else, that didn't seem correct because it even talked about the Kashmiri.

Sanaz (02:11)
.

Teyshi (02:26)
casualty so what do you make of that?

Sanaz (02:30)
First thing I'd like to say is that like I'm really honoured to be here I'd like to pick up a few things that when when this had happened when I heard the news I had a call from my cousin sister her and her brother were in Pahalgam

they said they were at a cafe. There was a cafe nearby. They were there minding their own business, having a bit of lunch. And saw these militants, about three, four of them. And they thought because the elections are coming up and

you there's always something going on here and for us it's normal, it's very normal for this type of stuff to happen. they thought that, maybe something like that's gonna happen. it gets really busy out here. And so then about five minutes later, they heard gunshots.

everyone was panicking there were loads of people that were running out they didn't know what to do they could hear them screaming and shouting their gunshots yeah

or what did I make of that? I was like, okay, "So are you lot safe there?" And they're like, they called the Indian army. They were military everywhere. about 20 minutes later, they come up And she said, "Yes, we did see lot of like blood there." the story was changing. First it was...

six people, then it came to 20, and now the Godi Media is changing these numbers.

so since Tuesday, Wednesday, something comes up throughout the whole week, they've just been going on and on about it, OK, they're calling them Pakistani. They've identified them and they're calling them Pakistani. So.

If the military, is literally there. Your military is pretty much everywhere, right? They're always there. And how can that be possible for your intelligence, to come out and say, and when you ask them, what about the intelligence? what did your intelligence do wrong?

they were working on something but they don't they don't tell us and this is what the people say if you've got some security there surely you've got security there you know who comes and who goes so you talk about how good your army is you talk about how well equipped you are but then

how can you let a Pakistani just enter like that? How can you let these people enter like that? And they have no words for that. how on earth did they not see that coming? Because it was planned, it was pre-planned. This is what they like to do. Just like the is not real'ies, they like to, right, put the blame on Muslims as usual. Okay, when had it not happened in Kashmir?

Teyshi (05:03)
Okay.

Sanaz (05:06)
that they haven't blamed anything on the Muslims and that. There isn't a day where, you know, I've never heard anyone say

so for example, if a Hindu did the same, it would never be on the news because they accused someone, accused a Muslim, especially, and a Pakistani. now yesterday, They said that they blasted a suspect house. Wow.

a suspect's house so make it make sense first you say the suspects that did it were Pakistanis now you've blasted their house and how is it that you're trying to say that they're Pakistanis how they would have a house here how they'd be living here that's what I don't understand right how to be living here that does not make some sense

Teyshi (05:47)
Yeah.

Sanaz (05:51)
it was all pre-planned, You all know that it was pre-planned. nothing but Hindutva extremism. And as you know, as you must be familiar there's a lot of Indian Muslims of course There have been similar attacks like

this on people when they want to close Islamic centers up they want to ban the hijab or the burka and they've been after the Muslims for a very very long time us Muslims are finally open our eyes that look now the Kashmiri matter it may have not

had a global effect, but now it has. Now there are people that are talking about it. And, I've always said that do not make this about, politics, It's just pure hatred for our Kashmiri identity, for us being Muslims. This is

what you see on the media, especially Godi's media, there are people in Kashmir, their cameras have literally been turned off just because they said, we are not, terrorists, if you're coming for the terrorists, you should be coming for those people who done that attack because they do not represent Islam. And we, condemn that attack, but

not once have you ever covered the young guy Adil, the brother, he saved many lives. he was a horse rider, he used to help people on the horses in Pahalgam I've been there like during my childhood. it's a tourist attraction, a very special one because

the mountains there you've got parks there, people can have picnics, but that's what people were doing. they've had their fake stories coming up, there was a couple that posted their reals on the media that couple came out, and said we're safe and sound, okay, why are you making lies about us?

And then those people that were attacked, why did they not broadcast? The people that took them to the hotel didn't take no money off them, And for their taxi welfare, they've paid them off. we'll pay for everything, will send you safely back. What about the coaches? So they're not going to talk about that. And they were like, anyone, you you're more than welcome here.

And even those Indian tourists, said, look, they helped us, they didn't cover that because they did not want to cover that. They pick and choose what they want to cover. So what they did was they had reports out that

those people were paid to lie that there was a Muslim militant. "He came up to me, and he said to me, are you Muslim or are you Hindu? And I said, I'm Hindu". then they said, we're going to go for your man.

So I'm sure you've seen that video where the woman is getting threatened by the Hindutva extremists. And now what they're doing outside London, they took it all the way here and you can actually see the true faces of them and what they're doing carrying Is Not Really' flag. But they don't even have one single Is Not Really with them. That's funny.

And Then you got the Pakistani uncles and aunties that they're entertaining them and what I would want to do is like peacefully protest whole protests that are peaceful do not get in people that are just there to make a plan of themselves

Pakistan is laughing on them. for us, for our people that lost their lives is not funny to us. they're literally laughing at that, know, I can understand. the thing is, why it hurts deep down really hurts me.

because we've got family living there, right, we don't have an army, we don't have an army to protect ourselves. I've come across a lot of like, Azad Kashmir people, there are people that are very kind, they will always support us. But then again, you know, we need to understand that Pakistan is also a corrupted country.

the people are not happy. They're not too happy with their governments. But the people do stand in solidarity. I've had many people, send me messages about how, everyone is out there, the conditions of how, people will get on with their lives eventually, as it has always happened. But this labelling, labelling Kashmir Muslims, calling them Indians,

accepting something that was never part of us. we've got culture that's 5,000 years old and we have our own language We're not Indian. that's something that people must accept. The sooner, the better. But then again, we still breathe for resistance.

And we're going to carry on doing that. inshallah one day we will be free. now when people have finally opened their eyes, back then we didn't have that much social media. when I was growing up there was no covering or nothing. Now with the help of social media.

We can go out there, we can open people's eyes, we can raise more awareness about the whole situation and not to make it all about Pakistan and India because the people they've always been suffering, okay? It's not about, ⁓ Pakistan's gonna have a war with India. most beneficial for us is for them to stop labeling us, for them to stop.

targeting our land so that they get more militarized so that with the help of Is Not Real in America they will get more equipped, they will get more armed of course they have been ethnically cleansing people, they have been people out of course, that has been happening now they're just going for people's houses in Kashmir calling anyone any suspect.

destroying their house so now they're coming for the houses and that's what's upsetting it just upsets me really you know um that now they're coming for people's houses just to blame them for being suspects which they're not so I was on the phone

with my cousins and I said to them

Teyshi (11:35)
So.

Sanaz (11:37)
that when you're protesting, the Godi media is there, still there, not leaving us alone. And we're going there to ask questions like, what is there? Why are you guys always been labeling us for years and years and years, since our childhood, from generation to generation, you have been labeling us, you're blaming Pakistan

They will still go on about it. They will say Pakistan is something to blame it. Now I know, yes, there have been groups in the past. Of course, Pakistan has had groups in the past.

Do you not think that USA and other countries like Russia, Russia and China have Pakistan's intelligence? Do you not think that the intelligence, because when something happens, it's always so and so has happened, this has happened, that has happened. America will always spy regardless. So do you not think...

that every country's president or prime minister, the people they condemn this attack. They didn't say nothing about Pakistan. you've not seen them say that, Pakistan is responsible because

no western country have claimed that it's Pakistan's fault that they are behind this attack no country has come forward it is only India that's doing this it's India honestly

They think that they can fool people, they they're trying to act like they're smart, but they're not. OK, so you you're trying to say that you would allow Pakistanis in an, armed area where the security highlight everywhere. that's what I want to bring forward, that every time I call my cousins

we're out there protesting. These people are still not accepting anything, you know? And there are good people, like in the UK, we have good Indian and Pakistani people and People that are being born and raised in the UK are totally different to the people that are there.

because the people that were protesting were maybe Uber drivers or work at the local shop or factory workers. Recent immigrants and students work permits and student visas.

They keep sharing these videos of this Indian guy who's acting bad. And he's like, you're gonna do this to you, you're gonna do that to you. There's a Pakistani police officer. He was like, could you please stay quiet? Could you please stay calm? He started attacking him, pushing him and sparing him. And they're forgetting that this is not India where,

Hindus are going to do what they want to do. No, no, no, nothing's above the law that. And next thing you know, you got arrested.

I've seen it with my own eyes out of humanity, I feel bad for people that are always racially targeted I feel bad for these people, but

extremist Hindutva they have no humanity towards anyone, I wouldn't even entertain these people because these people are just ignorant clowns and they're just out there for their own circus.

There's loads of video circulating. There's loads of memes being made. My focus is not on that. My focus is on our people there at the moment. And the truth hurts. The truth is bitter. The truth hurts. These people will deny the truth. They're just out there for a bit of fun. they're out there because it's their chance to,

blame Pakistan, so they're just on it. for that reason. But when you look at it from a Kashmiri perspective, well, the Kashmiri people took them in, embraced them.

they share their pain with them and they stood by them, they stood by them. When Hindutva groups were threatening to take the lives of the Kashmiri students or even anyone that works there, if you are also working there, news has come that if you're even working there they catch you, you're finished.

So it's not just about the Kashmir students, it's also about the people that are working there, that have businesses there. so many videos circulating where they're saying, we're going to go out there and we're going to close their shops. when we're going to find out who's behind the shops and we will put their names up then we're going to, like, we're going to treat them

And so threatening, straight out of net of threatening and that, ⁓

Teyshi (15:48)
Yeah, Thanks for that Sanaz, that was great. First of all, I'm going to quickly summarize for everyone. First of all, the media is not correctly relating what happened. Nobody talks about the Kashmiri that was unalived, Adil, as you mentioned. Nobody's talking about him. Nobody's talking about the kindness of strangers, of the Kashmiris there that, have been helping people, the outpouring, the heartbreak.

Nobody's talking about that. And actually, let's talk about historic Kashmiris being, killed, over a hundred thousand being killed. We've got 10,000 men that have been forcefully disappeared. Women and girls raped, Gang raped and two villages. Nobody is interested in that. Nobody's interested in the pellet gun attacks, which left 800 people with permanent...

life-changing injuries such as blindness and over a thousand of those were hurt in other ways. you know, everyone loves Kashmir, nobody loves Kashmiri. So to summarize, the information coming out of India, which the rest of the world seems to be feeding on, isn't accurate. That's number one. Number two, you're very right in what you said. And by the way, you have a relative out there, you have a eye witness. So that is amazing that we've actually captured that.

on this podcast that your cousin is out there, he saw gunmen appearing, they saw casualty, but something doesn't add up. And let's be very clear about this. India has form when it comes to false flag attacks, which is what largely people of the region, lot of us in the diaspora, should say, Pakistanis and other commentators around the world

Sanaz (17:04)
Yeah.

Teyshi (17:24)
think that this was false flag because India has done this before. Like you said, there might be elections coming up. There might be reasons for them to further their occupation in that land. And you are right. It is the most militarized area in the world and they spend literally more than millions. It could even be billions on intelligence. So just like October the 7th, if we want to compare it to that, how is it that these two countries such as Israel and India boast the most amazing, intelligence and sophisticated high tech?

state of the art intelligence and yet they didn't know that this attack was going to happen. We know as Kashmiris that we can't go to any tourist spots without going through checkpoints. your car is stopped, you're asked to come out the car, men line up one, women line up in another and you go to a checkpoint. And then when they deem you to be okay, they let you go. You're telling us that, what is it? Five Pakistanis came through the forest and shot down.

Sanaz (18:11)
.

Teyshi (18:21)
tourists. Okay, that sounds legit, doesn't it? Considering as a Kashmiri, you can't even go to tourist spots without being frisked. So there's a lot of inconsistencies. I think some of the newer developments as well is that now we hear that India, has American and Israeli military landed in Jaipur. What's the need there? Why after this attack?

that has taken the lives of 26 innocent people, does America and Israel need to be on Indian soil? As well as that, we know that they have cancelled visas for Pakistani people that wanted to come to India. We know that they have told all Pakistanis to pack up and leave within 48 hours, and that was a few days ago, the Pakistani consulate.

Sanaz (18:52)
.

Teyshi (19:11)
they were told to pack up within a week. So India being very aggressive towards Pakistan and yes, you're right on the one hand saying it's Pakistani, but on the other hand, blaming Kashmiris. When you suspect somebody, and by the way, you are suspicious, but you don't have proof, what do we do when someone's guilty of a crime? Do we blow their house up? Is that the normal cause of action? What if it wasn't them that did it? What if there was children?

and women, innocent people that had nothing to do with each other. What are you now going to do? Blow up Kashmiri's houses whenever you feel like it. What was blowing the house going to do anyway? What did you hope to achieve from that? What wouldn't the right thing be, as you're claiming now, to hunt down the perpetrators and bring them to book? Now we've entered a new phase where we suspect somebody of something and we blow up their house. What the hell is going on?

Sanaz (20:02)
Yeah because I think this is pre-planned okay now they're coming for now there's a bigger fish that fish they have to fry now what they're going to be focused on is well now they're going to go and bombarding like pretty much like half of Kashmir imagine imagine god forbid they do that and what they're going to get out of it it's a military operation we've got suspects here and there they're here

there like is not really army ⁓ you know the butchers that's exactly what they do they come for the houses and fire gunshots at them same exact thing this is what they're looking for and they're getting it because guess what now's a perfect chance for them to destroy the houses

to destroy and bring Kashmir into turmoil once again. Now they know that tourism, is the only source of income that our Kashmiri people have That is what's giving them their income because they've stolen all the other natural resources off them, right? So what more is left? What they have, okay?

the income that they're having, what you want their livelihoods to be banned. You want them to end up on the streets that's what they want to do. That's their plan.

Teyshi (21:25)
Absolutely. I think what we'll do Sanaz with your permission is there's gonna be more news and information unfolding. I think we yet to see what the impact of the American and Israeli military being

on Indian soil means, but clearly it is there to support India. It's clearly there to learn from America and Israel of how they deal with so-called terrorism, right? We don't know. I'll be honest, I'm selfish. As a Kashmiri, of somebody that has been born and grown up in, to be honest, a large part of my life from childhood, it was pretty carefree. It all kicked off in the late eighties. And as someone who's been through that,

Sanaz (21:56)
Okay.

Teyshi (22:09)
before and after, I am very vigilant about what's happening in the sense that what's gonna happen next, because clearly this isn't the end of it. Clearly, Kashmir is gonna pay for a long time for what happened. So I think what we'll do, Sunaz, is when we get more information, if you would be so gracious to come back on the podcast and we can then have a look at the unfolding events and look at what they mean for Kashmir, let's be clear, or we...

Sanaz (22:26)
Yeah.

Teyshi (22:38)
regret and mourn any innocent civilian, loss of life but as Kashmiris we understand that our people have been suffering for decades and decades, this is absolutely unbelievable and it's unimaginable that Kashmir can ever be normal again and enjoy peaceful living now.

We're being demonized because as you rightly said, you know, when they blame Pakistan, they also blame us. You know, they need to make their minds up, but let's pick this up again. I really appreciate you appearing on the podcast. You've given some fantastic insight and raised some really great points,

Sanaz (23:17)
Been.

Teyshi (23:19)
including the fact that, there's been demonstrations in the UK and we've seen some of this right wing Hindutva in our streets where,

Sanaz (23:24)
Yep.

Teyshi (23:29)
Who knew that could happen? But obviously we're seeing all this now. So I wanted to thank everyone for tuning in. We'll be keeping close eye on the events as they unfold. Very, very important episode for Kashmir Exists! We've been talking about this for a long time. You know, and we do, this is the reason we have these podcasts, because we need to remind people Kashmir

and that's Kashmir Valley. That's Kashir. That's the proper name for it. It does exist. And please.

The world needs to see who we are and not conflate us with Azad Kashmir, with Pakistan, with India. As Sanaz said, our heritage goes back 5,000 years, even nearly 6,000 years. Our Kashmiri

Sanaz (23:58)
Yeah.

Teyshi (24:12)
language is 5,000 years old. The word Kashmir, which is actually Kashir, came from us. It came from our people. When you think of Cashmere wool, that's where it comes from.

Sanaz (24:18)
Yeah.

Teyshi (24:24)
And if there are now territories outside of Kashmir Valley calling themselves Kashmir, this was only since 1846, in fact, the 15th of October. But the original Kashmiris are the ones that are suffering at the hand of India and the occupation. But I want to thank you, Sanaz, for appearing today and thanks everyone for listening. We'll catch up with you again next week where hopefully we'll have some more updates

and more hidden histories. Bye bye.

Sanaz (24:49)
You