Teyshi (00:19) Hello and welcome to episode of Kashmir exists today. We're joined by Anna. Anna (00:19) Hi. Teyshi (00:28) We're going to be talking about Kaeshir food today, a very exciting topic for everyone that loves food. Anna (00:31) Yeah, every Kashmiri is like, they have to be obsessed with our food because like it is worth it. Everyone who tries Kashmiri food, they all praise it because I think our cuisine is much more diverse and different than any other cuisine I've tried. Teyshi (00:54) You won't really find it anywhere else. Anna (00:54) Yeah, it's worth the podcast. Like I actually understand why we're talking about it because there's a lot to unfold when we talk about Kashmiri food. The things we eat and the ingredients, the people who make it, it's like a huge topic and really interesting. Yeah I'm honoured to be here. Yeah. Teyshi (01:11) Yeah, brilliant. we're lucky to have you here no, our pleasure, our pleasure. Teyshi (01:19) So, okay, let me start by talking about a really interesting kind of almost street food Mm-hmm. It's called masal cxot. Can you tell us a little bit about that? Anna (01:30) So masal cxot is it's kind of like a Kashmiri street food; you get it really fast and it fills you up and it's so delicious; everyone in Kashmir or maybe people outside from Kashmir who visit Kashmir are obsessed with it. Basically, it's just like you know.. We have lavaas, lavaas, it's like a flat bread, and then you have a few components in it. Like it's, it's like a roll. With it, first there's the masala. The masala is the chickpeas. It's like a paste thing. And then there's the chutney. The chutney is the spicy bit. You can also like, you know, customise it according to your spice tolerance. I really like spicy food. So I always ask the vendor to put more chutney and less masala. So it's just like a quick spicy street food that everyone really enjoys, especially like when you're when you come out of school or college, there's always that one masala sort guy and you just ask him and it's quite cheap and it fills you up. So for me, I think it's my favourite street food, my favourite Kashmiri street food. Teyshi (02:39) It sounds amazing. I've never had it in all the time. Yeah, exactly. Masal is literally masala.. Anna (02:42) yes it is you've never had it oh you should try it really nice yeah exactly.. no actually it's a bit confusing. Initially i thought masal is like masala it's the spicy part but actually masal for the masal cxot it's the chickpea bit which is not spicy at all But then there is the cxutin, which is like, you know, chutney, like Indians call it chutney or Pakistanis they call it chutney. We call it cxutin. Cxutin is the spicy bit. So all together, it's masala cxott. Here masala is the chickpea part. It's not the spicy part. Teyshi (03:27) Well, I've learned something new today. It's funny about the cxutin bit because it literally means chopping, doesn't it? When you, you're chopping, cut it, you're chopping it. Anna (03:39) it yeah so it's like set in it actually it's like chutney but it's set in actually you know you you're correct it's like chopping and it's like grinding and pasting and then it forms the paste so it's a mix of many spices and also i think radish i'm not sure but i think it also has radish in it so it's like a chutney it's like we call it caution. Teyshi (04:00) Yeah. Makes sense, makes sense. Anna (04:05) So that's the spicy bit in the Masala. So that is a street food. Yeah. It's our introduction. Yeah. But we also have other really well known dishes. yes. And we have a lot of other street food as well. Like and really different. We have like lotus stems, lotus roots as street food. That is so different. Like I've never seen that anywhere else. We have another Monji. Teyshi (04:09) So that is a street food and that's our introduction. But we also have other really well-known dishes like haakh. Yeah, nothing. Yes. Anna (04:35) Yes, I don't think I've ever heard anyone, you know saying that they have Nadru or Nadir as their street food or food as well like it's quite it's quite different. Yeah, we cook it in a way we cook it. Yeah, it's very unique. Yeah, true, true. Teyshi (04:48) I know that Chinese and Japanese people have it. Maybe some other people in East Asia do, but they cook it in their own way. But certainly the way we cook it, it's very unique to us. So yeah, we've talked about another jest, Anna (05:05) yeah one of my favourite and there's a there's another part of that lotus flower, pumbatch Teyshi (05:05) Yeah. Anna (05:13) i really like pumbatch i think it's the it's the seed part right yeah it's where the seeds you eat the seeds it's really it's really it's like a snack as well it's quite so i think this is really not heard of well in the west yeah talk to people about it here they don't know anything about it Teyshi (05:14) That's my favourite too. Yeah. So think this is really not heard of well in the West. When I talk to people about it here, they don't know anything about it. Anna (05:33) It is quite different for them. If we want to talk about a really well known Kashmiri dish called Haak. Teyshi (05:34) But yeah, let's move on. If we want to talk about a really well-known Kashmiri dish called haakh. Anna (05:42) Haakh. It has a special place in every Kashmiris heart. When you say haakh it reminds me of home, because it's something that we eat almost like every other day there's haakh. See for haakh you either love it or you're just tired of it. Teyshi (05:56) Yeah. Anna (06:02) Like people they just they get annoyed when it's hot again, but for me, it's like a huge thing I love I love I love it. Like I actually crave it when I'm not at home and I'm like overseas Yeah, we can make it like we make cxat haakh we put more spices in it so it's like more spicy so yeah Teyshi (06:03) No, you can't be tired of hawk. 100% and it's another one that you can make really spicy as well. Anna (06:31) Hark is just home. Teyshi (06:33) Yeah, and I think in English they call it collard greens. So it's very hard to find. Anna (06:40) it is, I found it in Malaysia once, the Chinese people eat it, but they eat it, They don't cook it. They kind of just eat it like a salad Which I found weird Teyshi (06:44) Nice. Wow. Yeah, that is weird..because we pressurise haakh. Anna (06:57) Yes we put it in a pressure cooker we like hardcore cook it when i told them we cook it like this they were like that's weird..exactly it's so it's not it's not a salad leaf in my opinion it's not something that it's not lettuce so yeah that was quite interesting Teyshi (07:06) How do they not get a stomach ache? No, exactly. And then we have haakh ti maaz. Anna (07:22) Yes, haakh, ti maaz. You can cook haakh. I've seen people cook haakh with chicken as well. So it's quite, you can customise it according to your own, like your preferred meat. So yeah, haakh is quite diverse. But yeah, the, you know, the, the, sort of idea of haakh, ti maaz. Yes, we do. Yeah, we do. With gogge. Teyshi (07:28) Yeah, absolutely. But yeah, you know, the sort of idea of haakh ti maaz. We also have rasma, but we like to put it with like turnips, don't we? Anna (07:52) Gogji ti rasma. We eat it with... Yeah. You know, in fact, I just cooked gogji today with my mum. Nice! I haven't cooked Gokji for ages. But Gokji is very sweet when you cook it. Yeah, it is. But like when you pair it with rasma, I think it like balances and it like, you know... And that's what makes it uniquely Kashmiri. Because a lot of South Asians eat rasma dal, but not... You don't really see them with don't put it gogji. Yes. Yeah. Teyshi (07:54) Yeah. Nice! I haven't cooked gogji for ages, but gogji is very sweet when you cook it. And that's what makes it uniquely Kashmiri because a lot of South Asians eat rasma dal, but you don't really see them eating with gogji anywhere else. Anna (08:20) That's what exactly, but it's a very, it's a really good combination actually. It might sound weird to them, but it's actually.. Teyshi (08:20) Exactly. it's a very... Yeah. No, no. Well, yes, it might do actually, but it's very hearty. It's great in the winter. So it's a fabulous dish. Anna (08:37) And we've not even covered half of it. Teyshi (08:37) Well, we've talked about masal cxot, nadr; we've talked about haakh, we've talked about... Which dish would you like to talk about next? Anna (08:45) So I think before we talk about the dish, we should also acknowledge the people who make the dish. Cause I think that plays a big role in our cuisine. Cause I think our food, it's made out of love. Cause usually at our homes, whenever like when you're not at home and you think of Kashmiri food, you think of your mom's hands, how she cooks it with love. And for wazwan, the waza. The waza also cooks it with passion because you need to be skilled enough to cook Kashmiri food. think, you know, not everyone can cook wazwan. People who are Kashmiri, even they don't, you know, they don't have the skill to cook wazwan like the wazas do. So I think Kashmiri food needs skill set to be made perfectly, which also makes it unique. Teyshi (09:17) Yeah, it's a very expert level of cooking. Anna (09:44) Yes. But we can go on to explain what is wazwan? wazwan is basically I think something that we cook on events. You don't eat it every day because it's really expensive as well and it's I think it's too heavy for us to eat every day because we love meat. Kashmiris we love. We love our mutton and lamb and beef and everything. Teyshi (09:48) but we can go on to explain what is wazwan. Yeah, it's very rich. Anna (10:14) We are meat lovers, Kashmiri people, so wazwan is just like a set of many dishes. You know, I don't know quite sure because it actually depends on the family as well few people skip many dishes if you add more and It depends on your family and like the event as well. I think yeah. Teyshi (10:19) How many dishes exactly? Yeah, I did read it was about 35 courses. Anna (10:40) Yeah I know I've never had the 35 course ones because it's quite rare to cook that many but I think I believe it's it also depends on the event like on weddings you have many more and even on weddings like for the first event you'd have less and the second day you have more and the third day you suddenly have like a lot more dishes coming up. Teyshi (10:43) They do, but just in case anyone's thinking about waste, we do have a tradition there of packing up food and giving it to the neighbours. Anna (11:07) There's no waste. Which I also like. Yeah. dichwur, that's what we call it. It's called dichwur. It's like a big... Teyshi (11:15) But like you said, wazas cook it outside, usually, and they cook in big, great big pots and vats. Dichwur? Okay. Anna (11:35) It's you've seen it. a It's like a huge pot sort of which they put where they cook it on wood. It's cooked outside. Even the process is quite slow and the meat is so tender. It has all the you know, my mouth is watering talking about it because they slow cook it and it's made with patience and love. That is like the most important part of our food. Teyshi (11:43) Yeah. Bless. Teyshi (12:01) But I remember open course of wazwan is like the sheep's stomach lining. Masalcxot (12:09) yes, I've seen that in few places. Like that's called dimin. Dimin. like the thraam which has the covering on it? No, I think the first thing they already have stuff on the thraam. It's the mehti, the mehti maaz. Yeah and then we have. Teyshi (12:23) So we've got the thraam, you've got the, you know, sort of baate on it. And then they come along with the first course and it's usually that sheep's stomach lining. Okay. It is mehti yeah. Anna (12:47) Tabak maaz and maybe like few pieces of chicken and what else do they have? They have kebab as well on already there. Yeah, and few people also like to keep Shami kebab the round ones. wow. Yeah, it's really actually you can curate it to your own liking So yeah, they already have. you say it was called dimmin? Dimmin is like the sheep stomach actually. Teyshi (12:52) Mm-hmm. Yeah? Wow. Did you say it was called dimming? Yeah, that's what I mean. And for me, that was always like the first course when they come around with that and that was my favourite. And I think as a child when I had it, I never knew what it was. I don't know. I don't know the name of it, funnily enough. Anna (13:26) It's like the different organs and stuff. Are you talking about that? It's like liver and...yes, that's dimming. That's dimming. It's chewy and it's quite nice. like it. Yeah, to be honest with you, the best way to describe it with people is are the same consistency as pasta. yes, yes, actually. It's chewy. Teyshi (13:33) No, just the stomach lining. Because I used to think, yeah, to be honest with you, the best way to describe it with people is are the same consistency as pasta. Anna (13:53) And it has all the soup soaked into it and it's really nice. Tabak maaz I love. Teyshi (13:53) Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. You just mentioned another one of my favourites there, the tabak maaz. I mean, how do you go about cooking it? Anna (14:04) I they deep fry it in oil. It's like deep fried, the tabak maaz. It's really oily but when you eat it, it doesn't seem that oily. I think they dry it up real well. Like you don't feel like it's too oily. It has its own fat in it which is actually really delicious as well, the fat lining on top. Teyshi (14:12) okay. Yeah, it can be. Yeah. Yeah, it is. Yeah, and of course we mentioned that you can have a lot of courses in it. You can get restaurants that do as one, but it's never quite the same. I mean, it's still delicious. And even the way they make, you know, tchaman, which is paneer, is different than the average paneer. Anna (14:33) And we also talked about haakh the haak that the waza cooks is actually quite different as well it's more I think he makes it in a different way which is more tasty and same with restaurant I think if this has something to do with the way they cook it like on wood that because it's slow cooked Teyshi (15:09) Yes. Anna (15:11) In restaurants Teyshi (15:11) Yeah. Anna (15:12) They cook it on gas and I think that also changes the way it tastes. No, no, that's fine. Teyshi (15:14) Yeah, absolutely. I've got a little bit of feedback in this recording. So sometimes I'm hearing my own voice when I'm talking and I may not hear Anna. So apologies, Anna, if I'm slightly over talking you. But apart from talking about wazwan, is a great tradition of sitting around the thraam and eating. That in itself is very Kashmiri tradition. Anna (15:35) That's really Kashmiri of us to eat together. We eat with four people in one Tram and we share the food, which I also find quite nice because we share the kebab. They only gave us two kebabs, so we cut it together and eat it together. And we've also seen like when you're in a thraam, the youngest person there, the older people, they give more stuff to them and they put them in their bags and you go take it home. So I find it really nice in our community how we share and how we eat in the same plate. Like there's no discrimination among us. It's all together. We all eat together. Teyshi (16:27) Anyone who gets the opportunity to have wazwan should absolutely do it one day. We have one restaurant somewhere in London or Greater London that does it. But really apart from that, we don't have anything like that in the UK. Anna (16:27) Anyone who has a chance to try they should like at least once in their life eat in a throne with other people especially try it with people you don't even know and see how welcoming we are. I've that a few times. How welcoming we are and how we share food and they ask you do you want this one or do you want that one it's quite nice you know chit chatting with the aunties in the tent and then they ask you about everything while we eat together yeah absolutely Teyshi (16:51) Yeah. yeah, I've done that. I've done that a few times. Absolutely. So you know, wazwan is a massive part of Kashmiri celebratory culture. It's very unique. I mean, why do you think it's important for us to have these unique dishes sets us apart from other areas? And what do you think that means about our own culture and our strive for not being confused as Indian or Pakistani? Anna (17:18) Yeah. I think Kashmiri traditional food and our culture as a whole is quite different from other South Asian countries. To me, believe we're more Central Asian than South Asian because even the way we eat our food, the things we eat and even our bread, the morning bread we get, lavaas or gerd or the tchoche you eat or tchochwor or kulche, all of them are quite similar to the Persian. the Persian cuisine. For us, for me, I believe that our food plays like a great role in distinguishing us from South Asians and Kashmiri food is very different than Indian or Pakistani food. We do have few similarities, but it's also because of the colonisation, I believe, because it also impacts you. But as a whole, our culture and our cuisine is quite diverse and Teyshi (18:15) Yeah. Anna (18:43) Different than India or Pakistan. Yeah, even the very fact that we eat, you know, rice every day, every meal. And this is very unusual in India and Pakistan. Yeah. like to have chapati, roti. They believe it's weird as well. They feel like how do you eat rice every day? Exactly. They do. They're like, yeah, eat it every day. But they eat chapati every day. Teyshi (18:46) Yeah, even the very fact that we eat, you know, rice every day, every meal, and this is very unusual India, they like to have chapati, roti, and when you tell them you eat rice, Yeah, exactly. Yeah, they do. They're like, yeah, eat rice every day. And they'll say to me, no, I prefer roti. Anna (19:12) Yes, I can't imagine eating roti every day to be honest. Like I might have it once or twice a month. But no, I need my I need my bath. I need my rice. It's in Kashmiri we say baate boche. So there's like this thing. For example, you go out with your friends for lunch, you eat burgers, you eat pizza, and then you come home and then you tell your mom. Teyshi (19:18) No, not at the me. Yeah. Yeah. Baate boche. Mm-hmm. Anna (19:38) Oh, I didn't have lunch today. You didn't see you didn't have lunch because you didn't eat but you didn't eat rice. So that's Kashmiri. Yeah, it's like missing. You didn't eat lunch because you didn't have rice. So that's about the botch. We mentioned the word butter. It can mean Simultaneously, rice and food. Yeah. Did you eat your dinner? Did you eat your butter? Because this is how much important. Teyshi (19:46) You don't feel right. And that's true. Absolutely, but we mentioned the word baate. It can simultaneously rice and food. Did you eat your dinner? Did you eat your baate? Because this is how much important rice is, that we've got the word baate for rice and for your dinner. But the word for rice in Kaeshir is tomul. Anna (20:05) Yes, it's tomul. But we say like the food you eat, the rice that you eat, tomul is like the grain, you know. So yes, cooked rice. So but we put importance into it. We just categorise baate as like your meal. So you had baate, you had meal. Teyshi (20:14) And the tomul, cooked rice here. Now I was just going to tell a quick story. I don't know if you're too young for this story, but there's a famous clip of like an uncle saying to one of the other, I don't know whether it's one of the guys or a kid, Bata khaya. Anna (20:34) Because it's the way they say it. You know, people butcher it even more nowadays. It's like bata khaya. Teyshi (20:53) Why is this funny to us? Anna (21:02) or some people say bappu khaya so like it's been it's the same way like when you talk to kids you kind of ruin the words like knowingly how would you say in pure kyrshir if you were gonna say have you eaten? bata kyota so it's like bata yes but like for kids it's the same i think everyone does it like everyone does it with kids when you talk to a kid you you know on purpose make your voice Teyshi (21:13) How would you say in pure koshur if you were gonna say have you eaten how would you say it in pure yeah exactly yeah Anna (21:31) babyish or you talk in gibberish so i think that is why we find it funny because it's not the word..and that too yeah to take over yes that is also like a big problem we can have another podcast on it because it's like a major issue in Kashmir as well mixing two languages and which also kind of you know Teyshi (21:32) Yeah. But I think also he mixed Korshur with Urdu. And this is a really big thing in the valley, isn't it? How Urdu tried to take over. Definitely. Absolutely. Anna (22:00) put shade upon our own language and there are kids who don't even know the real word they only know the Urdu word even me sometimes I'll be honest even me yeah I sometimes forget words in Kashmiri I know them in Urdu or English but then I feel like what have I done to myself I don't even know the word in my own mother tongue so that's kind of shame upon I have to really think that's Urdu Teyshi (22:07) Yeah, that's true. And sometimes with me, yeah, same. Yeah. Sometimes I have to really think, no that's Urdu and Teyshi (22:30) it's not Kashmiri. And then I realize how much it's in our minds to speak Urdu all the time. Anna (22:35) an influence it has been on our whole I think my generation and generations before me like Urdu has been a major part in our lives, which is we should put more emphasis on Kashmiri to be honest. Teyshi (22:43) Yeah. Yeah. We should indeed. the key differences, instead of like the... We were talking about masala, although we know there's not actual masala. Teyshi (22:59) in masal cxot. It is interesting how we chop off the vowel. So we do say masala instead of masala. Yeah, we will chop a lot of the vowels off. And you mentioned before, nadru. That's an Urduisation as well. Anna (23:16) well. Exactly. It should be nadr. We just don't have any fancy words. Yeah. We just..we're just plain and simple. We're quite Kashmiri is really simple. And I think Teyshi (23:16) because it should be nether, it should just don't have any fancy words. Anna (23:27) It's a nice way to talk. When I talk to my friends in Kashmiri, I feel like I understand them more and they understand me more. Because, you know, your mother tongue touches you more than any other language. And especially because you know, the language is really important. Teyshi (23:29) It is. It's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. And especially because we're talking about food, you know, the language is really important, but moving on quickly, and I think this will be our last point. We did talk about butter. We did talk about tomul, but even the tomul is different in Kashmir. How would you describe the tomul? Anna (23:56) I think Kaeshir tomul is quite heavier see like majority people eat two types of rice two types of tumult it's like Kaeshir or Panjaeb doesn't specifically means it's from Punjab..Panjaeb tomul just means it's from anywhere else other than Kashmir so that's also a thing with yeah Teyshi (24:11) Mm-hmm. Yeah, it kind of means exotic. Anna (24:21) So Kaeshir tomull, I think it's quite heavier and it's more dense than Punjab tomul. Me too, I eat Jasmine rice. But it's nowhere close to actually Kaeshir Tomul. Teyshi (24:25) Yeah, yeah, it's also short great, very short great. I'm very hard. I mean, my mother will normally eat like jasmine rice as a substitute, like Thai fragrant rice. Yeah, because it's softer as well. Anna (24:51) Yeah, a lot of rice fields. Yeah, paddy and rice fields. We have farmers. full of Hark? Yeah, even my own house, have like a kitchen garden area. You'll only see Hark. You'll only see Hark there. Maybe a cucumber in the corner. That's it. Hark is like we grow at home. Yeah, that's I mean, it's fantastic. Teyshi (24:53) of course we have a lot of rice fields there as well that's the big deal yeah and and fields full of haakh. Yeah. So yeah, that's fantastic. I think what we'll try and do at some point is get the corresponding pictures or videos for this. That will be really amazing as well. But I want to thank you, Anna, for coming on this podcast. Anna (25:18) Of course, of course. Yes. That will be really amazing as well. I want to thank you, No, thank you so much for having me. I enjoyed talking to you about this. There's so much more to unfold. Absolutely. We again didn't even cover half of it because our food is so diverse. Teyshi (25:36) But we have the honour and the privilege of having you on even as our first Kaeshir. So it's absolutely, it's a big deal for us. Anna (25:48) Your first Kaeshir? Oh I'm honoured then. It is a big deal for me too yes. Of course, definitely. can talk about some other aspects of Kaeshir culture. Yes. I'd love to have myself back here again. Teyshi (25:59) Bless you. But listen, let's talk again. Maybe we can talk about some other aspects of Kaeshir culture and we'd be delighted to have you back on. All right, well, Insha'Allah soon, everyone. Anna (26:16) Wa'alaikum as-salam. Teyshi (26:17) And stay tuned for our next episodes. And thank you once again to Anna. Salam alaikum. Bye-bye, everyone.