Austin (00:00)
Hi there and welcome again to KashmirExists, the podcast where we learn all about Kashmir Valley. And I'm joined again with my amazing sister Teyshi. Tishi, good afternoon, actually good night where you are.

Teyshi (00:15)
Yeah, it's a good evening where I am a little bit blustery weather in the UK, but Austin, thank you for that introduction and as always happy to be here.

Austin (00:24)
and happy to be co-hosting again. So let's see. Today's topic is on Chile, Calan, or as it's known in Kashmir, the 40 days or the 40 big. It says here, chila means 40 and calan means big or major.

Teyshi (00:28)
Absolutely.

Mm-hmm.

Austin (00:47)
So we've talked quite a bit in the last couple of episodes that I co-hosted about your upbringing, your time in Kashmir growing up. Do you remember the much about these 40 days of harsh winter period when you were in Kashmir?

Teyshi (01:06)
I don't remember it in the terms of it being 40 days. What I do remember is that it was mostly warm and sunny. But then when the winters did come in December, et cetera, in the normal time, then yeah, was a big deal. The fact that I remember being indoors and less outdoors.

the way that my family was, you know, they all had their parents on, they had a kanga and it was noticeably freezing and there was lots of snow outside. So I'm grabbing bits of memory from when I was about three and four there, but I don't think I would have been aware of these words, but I certainly understood that, you know, that we were in the grips of winter. Definitely. I understood that much.

Austin (01:52)
Yeah, and that's so amazing because like, you know, we talked a little bit about the natural weather patterns of Kashmir and kind of some of the environmental parts of daily life within Kashmir in our last podcast that I was on. But I'm glad that we are kind of zeroing in more on the winter months because as Kashmir

Teyshi (02:06)
you

Mm-hmm.

Austin (02:17)
Valley is located around the or like in the center area of the Himalayan Mountain Range. You know that that's many tall mountains, a lot of snow and snow activity from those mountains. So kind of explain a little bit more from your perspective. Did a lot of that snow and weather come from the mountain range?

Teyshi (02:24)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Austin (02:42)
Is that where a lot of that weather period would come in from?

Teyshi (02:47)
Yeah, so I think that because we happen to fall within that mountain range or at least the foothills of the Himalayas, we're definitely going to be subject to that type of weather that you're seeing there. I would say that the snow isn't coming really from the mountains onto us, like some sort of avalanche or snowdrift or whatever you might call it.

It's more the fact that because where we are geographically that makes us prone to snow in the winter. So we've got our own snow if you like, rather than secondhand snow I guess you could call it. But it's guaranteed that snow between December and January it arrives, it stays for a while.

So it's not like long lasting snow necessarily. You'll have a window of, you know, I don't know, it could be like a few weeks to a month-ish. It has his window and then it's gone. But certainly it's guaranteed snowfall. I don't, I can't think that there would have ever been a year where we didn't have snow.

Austin (03:45)
Yeah, and it's so interesting to kind of hear more about how it's just like such a common occurrence that every year you just expect it, even if it is sunny most of the year. And I know you mentioned the the Congre earlier and how that was such a normal part of like keeping warm in general. That was a normal part in Kashmir and is but

Teyshi (03:57)
Yeah.

Austin (04:10)
it would you say are the common things used or done during that period in the modern day as opposed to like the traditional period of Kashmir?

Teyshi (04:21)
okay.

So let's start with Chilaykalan. This is the harshest and the coldest period of winter in Kashmir. It lasts 40 days from December 21st to January 31st. you know, around December 21st, you usually see this term trending on Kashmiri social media because everyone's getting ready for it. Now, yes, you're right, you know,

historically and certainly when I was there you know growing up in that sort of wintry weather everyone was known to basically be indoors a bit more get their really warm woolly perrons on or ferron some people call it ferron I believe that it's even I've learned that ferron is the correct way of saying it although we grew up calling it perron

And the kangar, which again, I slip into calling it a kangri. That's, that is the Kashmiri word that's been orduized to stick an I on the end of it. Kangri is actually kangar. So even I fall into that sometimes because these are just colloquial terms that affected by outsiders. But nevertheless, know, the, the, if, if you're right, the pharaoh would have been worn, the kangar would have been lit, the kangar would go.

you'd then crouch down on the low seating, you'd have the kangas there warming you up and the parent would form a sort of a heat trap. That was for the adults, the children wouldn't really be, while they can wear a pair, they wouldn't really be having their own kanga just for safety reasons. So that would have been traditionally, I would have set up until fairly, I don't know, I feel like the 80s at least, I don't know when exactly.

it was more common for houses to get heating. you can see houses in Kashmir now for a couple of decades now really I guess that not only have air conditioning but it's a two way to hot and cold system. in the I summer right okay but it turned into a heater for the winter. So that's a more modern

kind of a twist on things and that's just for convenience because you know I guess with a Ganger if you wanted to be more modern and if you wanted things to be more convenient with a Ganger you have to have coal and then you're stoking it then you're putting more coal in it you're obviously carrying it around there is a minimal risk of burns because we're used to dealing with Ganger and

Nevertheless, if you've got some kind of AC unit that doubles up as a heater in the winter, then you might prefer that. That's some of the more common things that I've seen. We don't have, and I guess you wouldn't have it, but in the UK we have something like called radiators because we're cold most of the time. And this is hot water that goes around these kind of radiator things that go on your wall.

that goes around these radiators through the house and wombs. The house that we don't quite have that in Kashmir yet as far as I'm aware. So I think what they do have is they will have their fireplace, they will have a ganger and now I know they do have the sort of electric heaters which are, I think they sort of blow warm air into the house. So I think that's about as modernized as it's got so far.

Austin (07:29)
that's so incredible to hear that so much of the tradition remains, but there is changes that have occurred, just as technology changes, as daily life can change. I see here, too, that

the roads get so blocked due to the heavy snowfall that people have to store their supplies. So is it kind of, since it's such a common occurrence every single year, do people keep supplies stored for like years at a time or is it?

Teyshi (07:57)
No.

I

don't. Yeah, I mean, they might do if they wanted to. I would say that if you know that there's going to be heavy snowfall and we have talked before in our previous podcast where you can expect very deep snow and so for the convenience, again, the convenience element, you would probably stockpile things. There will be movement. It's just going to be minimal. Probably every day in normal sort of springs.

Austin (08:20)
Mm-hmm.

Teyshi (08:32)
summer or autumn or fall you know you you might have gone to the market you might or the local shops and you may have bought you know your regular sort of fresh groceries people are known to buy you know chickens from i guess it's the butcher i'm not really sure who sells it but there's like a chicken guy and you buy the chickens and then you bring them back and you prepare them i suppose in the

in the winter that's going to be a little less frequent. People of course do have modern technology there so they do have things like fridge and freezer so they can freeze things if they need to. Let's just say they buy a chicken and they decide to freeze that but you're going to see less movement. think in reality in the winter people cook differently as well which we see that in a lot of places so there is something called harissa.

which is different to the, I think it's the Moroccan or something. There's another harissa that is from a different cuisine. So the harissa that I'm talking about, which is from Kashmir Valley, is kind of like a stewed lamb. It's very difficult to describe actually, but it's almost been made into a mush, not quite a mush. It's kind of like a porridge consistency, but it's made out of lamb. And that might sound really...

weird and I get that that would sound weird but you know how when you take food and you sort of pulverize it for a baby almost it's it's lamb but it's had almost had that effect on it so it gets into this sort of porridge consistency it's actually really tasty my mum used to make it a lot I really liked it so in the winter you know they like to make food like that I think maybe you know they might get the

Austin (09:58)
Yeah.

Teyshi (10:18)
particular meat that they need, know, in traditionally they would have got it, let's just say they got, I don't know, a whole sheep and made use of the cuts from there, made batches and made it last a long time. I'll presume now with everyone having, you know, regular fridge freezers that they get the meat and freeze them, I guess, like I suppose they would do that just like us. But you know, eating that sort of food,

The harissa which is made out of lamb is very specific to the winter time. And thinking about it, know, chilaquila, it actually means 40 like you said, which means it's 40 days long. So yeah, people really are sort of hunkering down in the warmth and eating foods that give them sustenance and really keep them going through the winter.

Austin (11:07)
Yeah, that's really cool to hear that is such a common thing in Kashmir Valley, because here in the States, I live in a state that gets a lot of snow. And so it's very common in the winter months to make warm dishes like stews, casseroles, those kind of things. So I think it's really amazing that that is such a commonality, not just

Teyshi (11:18)
Hmm.

Hmm. Yeah.

Mmm.

Austin (11:31)
Here or even in England, but also in cashmere and in so many other parts that get like cold or chilly so

Teyshi (11:35)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, so harissa

harissa is a big favorite for Kashmiris in the winter.

Austin (11:44)
Yeah, that's incredible. And kind of continuing on that, I know that there are the 40 days, but there's also the small, what's called the small Chile, which is it lasts for 20 days. And that's from February 1st to the 20th. And then there's also the baby Chile.

Teyshi (11:51)
Mmm.

Pardon.

Austin (12:06)
And that lasts for about 10 days. And that is February 21 to March 2. So it's really interesting because it seems like it's almost coincides with winter, like the season of winter, just with a few weeks off.

Teyshi (12:06)
It was.

Yeah. Yeah, that is that is Kashmiri winter. That is

Kashmiri winter. So yeah, you're right. What you said, the small chila is chilaekhurd and the baby chila is chilae bacha. Bacha literally means child, baby. Yep, absolutely. And it's interesting those words are Persian in origin. Well, at least the chilae bit is.

Austin (12:39)
nice.

Teyshi (12:47)
because that shows the kind of influence over the longest period of the Persian culture into Kashmir.

Austin (12:58)
What and I also see here too that Central Asia played a part in that that cultural like clat like the the coming together of the cultures to create even that word and that that phrasing. So and that can be for like another podcast too. But I think this would be a really.

Teyshi (13:14)
Yeah, absolutely.

Mm.

Austin (13:22)
amazing time to just kind of dive a little bit more into just briefly like kind of the Persian influence in Kashmir and also the Central Asian influence because there are there seem to be a lot of a lot of influences in Kashmir that are from Persia and from Central Asia.

Teyshi (13:43)
So basically I think it's just the route, know, the trade route. There were also religious missionaries and different people like that. But I think with Kashmir, because that valley is very kind of, you know, almost set apart from the rest of the Indian landmass.

And so when you had people going from Central Asia and maybe even West Asia, this was quite, you know, the Silk Route, et cetera, they were quite well-known routes for people that wanted to do trade, especially they want to do trade in Kashmir, in India in general. what tended to happen is, you know, some of the cultures kind of rubbed off, some of the people settled, but not predominantly.

but not predominantly so. So in other words, in the valley, the average kind of split is that the majority of the people of that valley actually shown to have South Asian DNA, including myself. Then the second place, it's Central Asia. Then we have a sort of a little bit of East Asia and West Asia.

So you're right, even though we are talking about Persia and it had an influence, it was quite a long time ago. So if you think about it this way, my mum has about 1 % Persian DNA. You're talking about almost 800 to 1,000 years ago. That's how long ago it would have been. My dad has a lot of Central Asian DNA, but that's more closer in time.

because of the amount of it there as well. But yeah, most of the people in the valley are a mixture of all of those. And it's that unique mixture of the surrounding areas. Because if you look at Kashmir, and I've said it in previous podcasts, it's literally South Asia next to Central Asia, then you've got East Asia, and then you've got West Asia. So it stands to reason that the peoples that gathered there since just before 3000 BCE,

We're going to be a mix of all those people. And yeah, but majority, you know, DNA wise at least, are majority South Asian. So we're definitely not outsiders for it that way. like any region and especially in India and Northern India, Northwest India, there is a lot of influence from Persia and places like that. That's not just in Kashmir.

that is in even places like Punjab and you'll see there'll be Pakistanis that have influence from Afghanistan just like Kashmir Valley does but also Persia itself. think it's just more the reason that it's more kind of noticeable with Kashmiris is because we've retained our language, we've retained our culture whereas I would argue that if you look at the surrounding

kind of areas to Kashmir, they kind of adapted a little bit more to the different waves of occupation, whereas we really were cut off. I think that's the whole point. When you are living near the mountains, like we have done for so long, you are a little bit more cut off. And what you'll find is that people might naturally go there to trade, they might even settle there, but invaders are a little less.

it's a little less easy for them. That's how we've managed to keep our culture and our language intact. But yeah, that was a really long answer.

Austin (17:15)
No, no, all good. love learning. And I love hearing about the history of Kashmir Valley and like how all of these cultural things came to be through the different influences. And it's so amazing because you're right. mean, the trade routes were right along the valley and right in that region. So it was just natural for some

like all the different sections of Asia to be represented there. And to continue on with how the harshness of the Chile winter affects Kashmir Valley, how does it affect from your memory the agriculture?

Teyshi (17:43)
Absolutely.

Austin (18:01)
So like the agriculture, the produce, how things can be grown in the valley.

Teyshi (18:04)
Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. You're right about that because, when you look at Kashmir Valley, it's so different from the rest of India and even parts of Pakistan that their landscape is completely different. They're a little bit more arid. They've always been very humid. Whereas because we're near the glaciers, we've got a little bit more of that kind of, I don't know, I want to say negative ions coming through, right? And so...

The snowfall during Chilacaland provides essential water for the region's agriculture in spring and summer. And that melting snow, it actually irrigates fields and maintains river levels, quite hard to say. And that's kind of like a byproduct of that heavy snow. So that snow, although it's very harsh, it's absolutely necessary to the valley and how it sort of, know...

in the spring, etc. how it's kind of whole industry that way thrives. yeah, it's quite, I don't think a lot of people, unless they're involved in agriculture, really think about that sort of thing. Like a lot of us don't think about it's, it snows a lot, it's raining a lot when we realize that that's actually good. our earth needs that, it needs the water, it needs the snow.

Austin (19:08)
Right.

Teyshi (19:19)
because that's how you get things to grow. yeah, that's another interesting point about Chile-Colón.

Austin (19:25)
Yeah, and that's so interesting because so the state I live in is an agriculture state here in America. so I know quite a bit about, you know, when there's arid seasons, when there's not arid seasons, like even living in the city, like I still know that. And so to hear that the snowfall actually helps with irrigation and with water, that is

really really amazing because what it shows is that the natural ecosystem that the valley is surrounded by helps the Kashmiri people be able to grow and and to prosper in that land for all these thousands of years because of

Teyshi (19:59)
Mm-hmm.

name.

Yeah, mm-hmm, absolutely.

Austin (20:13)
And to continue on with this other interesting thing that hits really close to home for me, how would this long winter of extreme harshness, how would it affect the culture and especially the poetry and the writing that comes out of Kashmir Valley?

Teyshi (20:37)
Well we spoke about in our last podcast about some folk folk tales and a number of them seem to be centered around snow there's Shinnebrer which is you know snow cat or you know a cat from the snow Shinnebrer, cat of the snow it could be literally translated to which is about a giant cat that goes around

Austin (20:42)
Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Teyshi (21:00)
with a big ganger full of hot coals. But if he hears a crying child, he will locate that child and empty the whole cauldron of coals all over him. So it definitely inspired imagination, or fairy tales. I think there are songs, poems,

Austin (21:15)
Yeah.

Teyshi (21:26)
about Jaleik-e-Kalan, about the harsh winters and what it's like, and just how, know, Kashmiri sort of, there's like a code of practice in the winter where, like I mentioned before, you you know to stay home rather than go out, especially in these more harsh, faulty days. But yeah, it does affect,

I have, you you will be able to poetry and songs, references to the very harsh winters because like all, you know, artistic things, whether, you know, it could be writing, it could be singing, it could be poetry, they reflect life itself. So yeah, it definitely does inspire it.

Austin (22:16)
Yeah, and that's, I had totally not even thought about the story about the snow cat. I think that's so cool that there are stories that are, that take so much of the cultural elements, put them together imaginatively, and that's a way for the culture to stay alive for all these thousands of years and to be remembered as it is, and as it was even back then.

Teyshi (22:39)
Yeah.

Austin (22:42)
And we talked a little bit earlier about the survival practices, but if you wanted to go into just a little bit more detail here in our last question here, what would be some of the specific survival practices that you can remember people doing in the time leading up to the Chile Cullan?

Teyshi (22:42)
Absolutely.

you

Yeah, so people would kind of stockpile things like wood. So you'd have a room in the house where you would keep your stores. It could be wood, could be coals, it could be grains, know, anything that you're going to stockpile that you some most houses will have a room for that type of thing. I remember having that in our house. I remember there was one house that had these items in it. And in fact, there was a

there was a whole kind of mountain of, I don't know whether it was some kind of grain, I remember sitting on it. So you do, it is quite normal, you know, to, on an average house to have a kind of like a store room for these, you know, stockpiling things to go in. And so of course, if you're have a wood fire, you'd have that, you would have coal for your kangri and other things that you need to get you through the winter months. And that of course would include

Food but food is going to be in the form of you know Usually dry food like pulse. So we love to eat kidney beans in the valley We call it rasma, which is more like a word that they use throughout South Asia Rasmadal is it's the way of saying kidney beans and So we eat a lot of those so you probably have sacks of those probably have sacks of other type of lentils or pulse

I think when you, you now that we've got, like I mentioned, freezers, you probably have people being able to store other things like Hark, which I mentioned before, which is collard greens, because you can freeze them. So, yeah, there will be a lot of stockpiling going on, that's for sure. Any essentials that we might need to get us through, anything that means that we don't have to go out in the snow much, right? There will be trips, necessary trips, but they will be minimal.

Austin (24:49)
Right.

Teyshi (24:52)
And it's usually the man of the house, know, traditionally and historically that would have done that. I do remember being in Kashmir once when I was around seven and it was snowing outside and of course the snow was really heavy and there was a knock on the door. It wasn't Shinnebred, don't worry people. It was just a regular man. He was giving out food. Now there's this tradition in there where if, you know, every now and again, they do charity where they will, you know,

sacrifice, I don't know, like a sheep or a lamb and then that gets the butcher then obviously cuts that into portion or they will make some kind of food. Either way they will then send it out to the neighbors in that region and share the food out. So that's like a religious thing that goes on for Muslims where we, you know, and it's also very much practiced in Kashmir where

people share the food, it's a form of charity as well. So I remember that happening in winter. Yeah, I remember that happening in the winter. I remember it really clearly because I'd never, obviously this is one of my trips back. And so I opened the door and this guy spoke perfect English. And he was just like, tell your mum and dad that, you know, this is...

Austin (25:48)
Well, that's incredible.

Teyshi (26:06)
you know such a thing from such a body I didn't know what the hell was going on but you know it was explained to me later that you know this is something that happens in the valley quite a lot and it's just part of the tradition of sharing so when you have good fortune you share it out you celebrate by sharing things out but also you look after the needy as well and people that need to be fed or clothed or you know

giving to the poor etc. So it all falls in that and that was actually in deep winter so if you think about it there must have been a particular reason why it was happening then and that person had been sent out to brave the snow to give out this form of zakat which is kind of the charity. Whether it was giving money, whether you are just you know doing their own version of it where they share the food out but yeah that was you know.

good way of people sharing food out in these harsh winters knowing that it eases the burden on people going out and having to get supplies in. But just quickly though we did mention that you know we wear a lot of warm clothes we happen to have you know the pashmina. We also have you know the the goats that are resident in Ladakh.

but when you get the wool from them, it's processed in Kashmir. That's why, you know, things like the traditional wool from those goats is used, not just in Kashmir now, but to, for example, you could use it to make a perron. And it's a form of being, stylish, but also warm as well. So, you know, that's the kind of...

survival practice. So believe it or not wearing a furring is a survival practice.

Austin (27:53)
no, I totally get that. Because I mean, it really is a way to stay warm. Like it's just like here where we put on warm clothes all the time. well thank you so much for sharing so much about the Chile Ceylon. And I really hope that we answered so many questions about this really interesting topic because it's so cool to zoom into.

Teyshi (28:02)
Yeah.

Austin (28:19)
a specific part of the weather and environment struggles and just part of life that can happen in Kashmir Valley. And I hope that we can cover something like that in the future.

Teyshi (28:28)
Yeah.

Absolutely, I really enjoyed this topic just because I've only really come to know about it in the last decade because it started surfacing on social media because I didn't spend a lot of winters. I probably spent about five winters in Cushmere altogether thinking about it, five or six. And so at those ages I was so young that I don't think it really...

you know, sunk into my brain about it. Certainly my parents wouldn't have been sitting at home talking about Jaleik-i-Lan. However, what I did notice in the last 10 years is that it really trends on social media for Kashmiris. It's like a big deal, like they're really getting ready for it, you know, they're bracing themselves for these harsh 40 days. But yeah, it was great to sort of explore that and learn more with you as well. Thanks, Austin.

Austin (29:19)
Yeah, it's

always great. It's always great getting to learn more about Casimir Valley and it makes me want to visit and excited for the day I'll be able to all the more.

Teyshi (29:31)
Well, you know what, you definitely should go and we'd love to hear your thoughts and experiences when you do go.

Austin (29:37)
Yes, I will be sure to do that, inshallah.

Teyshi (29:41)
Inshallah indeed.