Teyshi (00:01)
Hello everyone and welcome to this week's episode of Kashmir Exists where I am joined by Ray and we'll be discussing the Greater Israel concept and comparing it to the Greater India concept which few people may know about. Now as usual I love being in these podcasts and it's always a treat when Ray is here. Hi Ray, how are you?

Ray (00:22)
Hi Teyshi I'm good thanks. Thanks for having me here today again. I'm so excited to be part of this adventure of Kashmir exists and I can't wait to start talking about our topic today.

Teyshi (00:37)
Fabulous. Now we do have some very specific sort of events happening around the world. Some may say exciting, some may say worrying, but the reason we decided that we wanted to talk about the subjects of greater Israel ambitions, comparing it with greater India is because we think that perhaps what's going on at the moment can help shed some light.

on both the behavior of Israel and India and how we can spot trends and really sort of, you know, make use of our activism. So how do you want to start, Ray?

Ray (01:12)
Well look, of course, as we all know, the top headlines nowadays, we've got one that is going on for one year already, especially about Israel and what is happening in Gaza. But for the last couple of weeks, of course, we have the top headlines as well about what's going on in Syria. And know, especially the news in Syria, are progressing rapidly and we can...

barely keep up with. So we might actually also shed some light on what is going on there and how does that reflect especially on the Greater Israel project. How about that?

Teyshi (01:46)
Absolutely, absolutely. And I think I have a little bit to say about the Greater India project too, which is definitely in the making. That particular dish is definitely on the back burner simmering. So let's start with the Israel's, Greater Israel, I should say.

ideology or concept? mean, what can you tell us about it?

Ray (02:09)
Of course, the concept of the Greater Israel, the whole idea of the Greater Israel, it refers to the territorial expansion of the State of Israel beyond its internationally recognized borders to include territories that are considered biblically or historically significant to the Jewish people. We're talking here such as about the

areas such as the West Bank Gaza Strip, the parts of Jordan and even broader territories in the Middle East which are spanning from the Nile to the Euphrates River. Now the ideology here is behind that is rooted and advocated by the religious nationalist groups. This concept is primarily driven by the belief in a divinely promised land for the Jewish people.

Teyshi (02:46)
Yeah.

Ray (03:02)
Though it is not explicitly a formal state policy, if you know what I mean, it combines a nationalistic aspiration to reclaim land with the religious belief that Jews are destined to inhabit the entire area, historically known as the land of Israel. It is often associated with the notion of the Jewish people returning to their ancestral homeland as outlined in their Torah.

We could actually see some examples during their current operations in Gaza, when they are even organizing some boat trips, like some civil organizations, are organizing boat trips to look at the operations as they progress and dreaming or actually planning, you know, how are they going to invest in that area that is getting now attacked.

Teyshi (03:49)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and I think that, you know, this is something that has been spoken about a lot. A lot of people called it a conspiracy theory, that those were some of the accusations whenever the

you know, the idea of Greater Israel was discussed, people were accused of scaremongering, being conspiracists, know, let's be honest, anti-Semitism. But you know, what's interesting to me is that India itself has these expansionist ambitions. They're formerly known as India's Akhand Bharat, which literally means undivided India. And so that's really, again, similar.

to the religious concept for greater Israel is rooted in Hindu nationalist ideology. And that really wants a unified Indian subcontinent as it existed before colonial rule. So what this really means is that the India that we know today is not the original India, which included modern day Pakistan and for example, Bangladesh and perhaps some other areas, right? So it kind of has, it kind of pines

for this return to greatness, this rhetoric that we see so much in today's politics, make whatever country great again. And Arkand Barret really is about envisioning this pre-colonial state that India had. And by the way, you mentioned some of the areas that are included in Greater Israel. And like you said, from the river to the sea almost, right? Was it from the Nile to the Euphrates?

Likewise, India has its own kind of ambitions. Let me just cover off what they are. So, you know, including modern day India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal, Bhutan, Afghanistan, Sri Lanka and Myanmar. That's like it's very similar to Israel because when you look at it, you know, where Israel sees that it that the long belong, it does have a large scope and you're almost hit with the wow. Like, do they really think this? Do they really believe this?

they really think this is achievable right? But certainly this is part of the Aakhand Bharat and it's promoted by groups like I think it's Rashtriya Swami Sayak Sangh, so that's RSS, very difficult to pronounce. I'm not a Hindu, these are very religious Hindu words, but it's promoted by those groups citing cultural and historical unity under Hindu civilization and it draws from the idea

of something called Bharat Yasha in ancient Indian texts which describes a culturally unified subcontinent and it emphasizes pre-Islamic and pre-colonial history often downplaying regional diversity and separate nationhood. And I would say just to finish off then, know, the goals really are, it's symbolic in trying to get a unified Hindu nation.

It's to promote the idea of India as a natural leader of the subcontinent, occasionally linked to hindrance for rhetoric about reclaiming perceived lost territories. It's perceived to be unrealistic at the moment, but we do know that India plays the long game. So yeah, that's just my little comparison to what you said. There are some similarities there, wouldn't you say?

Ray (06:58)
Absolutely, absolutely. We're talking about expanding on neighboring or throughout neighboring areas using pretty much the belief and the religious justification, if that makes sense. Yeah, so I can already relate when we start talking about it. So, you know...

Teyshi (07:09)
and 100%.

Ray (07:18)
When we talk about the concept itself, of course, they've got the justifications. So, justifications historical, it could be historical, could be religious. So, I'm going to touch on the historical basis, at least for now, at least for the greater Israel. The historical basis for greater Israel is derived from an ancient biblical and religious narratives.

and based on the Kingdom of David and Solomon from the Bible. The concept stems from Jewish religious texts that describe the land promised to the Israelites, which spans much of modern-day Israel, Palestine, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria. In fact, the modern political idea of Greater Israel had emerged in the 20th century.

Teyshi (07:47)
Okay.

Ray (08:02)
particularly after the establishment of the state of Israel in 1948 and gained political traction with the Zionist movement during the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza following the, you know, we all know the Six Day War in 1967. So how does that sound if we compare to the Indian project?

Teyshi (08:18)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, absolutely. I think this idea that it's, you know, rooted in a kind of, you know, historical aspirations, identity, but more significant, well, identity for both definitely, because we know this whole identity thing that exists with Israel and India is very much being spearheaded at the moment, but also religious, which is kind of

interesting to me because we don't generally see Israel as an overly religious country in the sense that if you look at lot of its citizens, how much of them actually are, you know, religiously Jewish as opposed to identifying as Jewish as an ethnicity. So it's interesting that they use religion and weaponize it for their own, you know, colonial sort of ambitions. And I would say with India, I would say people are religious in India, actually, but I think what this

I would say the average person is quite religious in terms of being a Hindu, but what this has done and what Hindutva and the idea of greater India and reclaiming back land that was taken, it really, it's of ramping up the religious fervour so that it's justifying a kind of extremist position and normalising it. But I mean, in this last year with, and I know you touched on it sort of before,

In this last year or so, the behavior of Israel towards its neighboring countries has been pretty overt, right? I mean, we've seen things with Lebanon, Syria. Can you talk to us a little bit more about, of course, it's early days yet in terms of Syria, but can you talk to us a little bit more about how Israel's behavior could be perceived to be seen through the lens of their greater Israel kind of concept?

Ray (10:09)
Yeah, look, we can start again from their original concept, you know, from the Nile to the Euphrates. So it seems like, you know, they are not hiding it, right? We've seen it on the news, we've seen it on some speeches that they've done before by their Prime Minister. So basically, you know, they're not hiding it and...

With the events that we are seeing currently, especially as you mentioned, you know, what's happening in Lebanon and you know, the news that we keep hearing starting from yesterday about Syria. Yes, they are covering it under like buffer zones and trying to keep their border secure. But honestly speaking, no, I would say, you know, the way that they mobilize nowadays, they mobilize their troops and they're mobilizing their forces. It seems like, you know, they are

Teyshi (10:44)
Okay.

Ray (11:01)
moving forward and looking forward into moving further with their project as the Greater Israel. It's not only a buffer zone as they claim. their primary political goal is the expansion of the control over territories that are seen as historically and religiously significant to the Jewish people.

Teyshi (11:11)
Yeah. Correct.

Ray (11:31)
You know, they're already working through the, you know, the settlement, the illegal settlements in the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and potentially, of course, other areas. Gaza itself, Gaza itself is in, you know, their narrative and the news is about fighting terrorism or fighting, you know, what they call it, quote unquote, it's resistance anyway.

Teyshi (11:36)
Yeah.

Ray (11:55)
But you know, actually what you see from the actions from their civil community or even from their officials, no, they are actually expanding. That's what they are after. So they are trying to ensure that they've got their control over these regions. This concept is originally supported by the religious Zionist groups.

You can see it by the actions of the settlers and even some of the right-wing political factions in there, which is somehow controversial and often denied by mainstream or Israeli governments. But you can see it through the actions.

Teyshi (12:34)
Yes. Absolutely. And I would say that it's from the average person, whether it's the lowest of the low, whether it's the average civilian, ITF soldier, right to the leader of Israel, they all are participating in this and everyone understands the drill, everyone understands

you know, the assignment in that respect. And if I was to compare that to India, for example, I would say similarly, you know, that everyone that is voting the BJP party, which is the Hindutva right-wing religious party that's in power now understands the assignment. Okay. And I think that what's interesting to me about the events subsequent to October the 7th, 2023 is that

They have these ambitions, but they're aware that in modern day, they have to sort of play the clever game and the long game in as much as, know, in times gone by, you could with absolute force and brutality come in and, you know, occupy land and cause, you know, wiping out people and doing all the normal things that used to come with occupations. And because we live in a sort of modern lens, they have to slightly change their tack.

So I feel like what we see is we see the same ambitions of colonization and expansionists sort of being an occupier, having these settlements, but they need a reason to do it because they can't be accused of being, know, unjustly going and doing a land grab. So they need to have an excuse. And I think what we see as well with India, similar to Israel, is that they demonize Muslims, Islam.

They also partake in a lot of Islamophobia on both sides, a lot of propaganda against Muslims, lot of, you know, perpetrating a lot of falsehoods. And so by demonizing Muslims as terrorists, be it in Palestine, you know, be in any area of the Middle East, whether it's in the West when certain events happen or whether it's in Kashmir or Pakistan, they're going to label and they do actively label Muslims as terrorists.

terrorists and then what they do is they wait for an incident, let's say it happens by itself or it's a false flag. mean, you know, a lot of people say October the 7th was a false flag, but then they need that justification. If we go back to October the 7th, 2023, we wouldn't have thought at any point, I don't think naturally on that day or in the days following, so they're going to try and go into, you know, Lebanon and do trying to take back some land or, you know, at least

do those actions and now they're for the first time since 1970, know, within 20 miles of Syria. think similarly in India, so I'm doing the comparison there, when 2019 happened and our semi-autonomy was revoked and our protection where outsiders of the valley couldn't just come in, especially from India, to buy up land, we never would have thought. We never...

I mean, that would have been the fear. That's kind of like the fear in the back of people's minds. But I think that when it happened, it was so shocking. I think a lot of people couldn't believe it. I think this is the time where we're seeing things where we never thought we'd really see the way that's happening being realized. And so with India starting its own settler project in Kashmir, moving in the soldiers, building settlements for them in vast quantities.

doing a land grab already, which is not spoken about in Kashmir Valley, which I believe is the size of Hong Kong, not spoken about. They've also recently created problems in Bangladesh where the leader of Bangladesh seems to be kind of a puppet of Modi or at least India. And there was a civil unrest in Bangladesh that it caused a lot of, you know,

fatalities and just a lot of, you know, when you see civil unrest, the sort of usual terrible things that happen with it, the then Bangladeshi leader fled to India and sought refuge there. But I think that's another indication that India very much is trying to create and construct a problem in Bangladesh to then justify taking it, right? And that's part of its expansions.

Similarly, when it gets to Kashmir Plan 2035, where it wants to realize its ambition of changing the demographic from majority Kashmiri Muslim to Indian Hindu, at that point where it's allowed enough Indians up there and built enough settlements, which we know that, broadly speaking, Kashmir Valley can be compared to the West Bank in Palestine because of the checkpoint and the various ways that people are treated.

whether it's forced disappearances, whether it's being detained without justification and those type of things that we're very well aware of. I think at the point where they do flood the valley, what this current situation and the behavior that we're viewing Israel of it really, I feel like it wasn't a shock to Israel what's happened in Syria, but let's just say that they're trying to be opportunist with what's going on.

I kind of feel that this is what we'll see.

Teyshi (17:51)
where we will see India when it's in the valley and how it's going to behave, let's say, to Pakistan. Because obviously if it was Pakistan as being greater India, there are parts of China called Aksai Chin. I think it will definitely, you know, I really think it will try and get that back as part of the, you know, greater Kashmir region as well.

that that's part of the Greater Kashmir region. I do see it doing that. And I think that the fact that we're watching Israel doing what it's doing now it's something that India emulates. think Israel's also telling us this can happen. We can do this. I feel like it sends a new signal. That was a really long explanation, but that was my way of comparing how I see India's behavior unfolding in the wake of what we're seeing Israel. So I almost feel like Israel

is about a decade or so ahead of India in terms of behaviour. I mean, what do think of that sort of comparison analysis?

Ray (18:48)
Absolutely, I totally agree with you and I honestly agree with what you've said in terms of Israel is being a decade ahead because you know we can tell from their actions over so many years but especially since October 7th, 2023 it seems like they're you know taking actions and they are doing what they're doing and they are showing everyone that yes we are doing this because we can.

So I don't think this is something that India had reached to yet, that hey, you know, we're doing, we're expanding, are acting in some certain way because we can, but Israel is doing it. And it seems like they've got the full international support, at least from the major powers. So that's why it seems like they feel that no one is gonna stop us, simple as that.

Teyshi (19:32)
Yes.

Absolutely and I... yeah go on Ray.

I was going to say that I think that one of the features that we've seen, you know, in the last year or so is that there are very kind of placid and passive countries surrounding these conflicts that historically we would have seen them taking a stand, but they're pretty much passive, which it really is making it easier for countries like Israel and India who have these ambitions. So I believe the concept is that you

before you go in, like we were saying before, like in the old days, you would just go in and take over a country. Now they have to play this really sort of cunning game. And one of the things that they do is that they weaken the countries first so that by the time it's prepped and primed, they can just go in and topple it quite easily. So, you know, if we think about it that way.

There are things that Israel has done to weaken those regions that we were talking about, especially the regions that it's got its eyes on. And one of those, by the way, is having the complicity. Now we know that there are agreements or whatever the situation is with the countries surrounding the Levant that make them kind of complicit in silence and not doing anything. I think similarly, if we look at Pakistan at the moment, they had a leader called Imran Khan.

well still technically the leader, very popular guy, he was thrown into jail. Before that they had a very corrupt leader as well who I think was tried for something, know, whether it was, you know, fraud of money in some way. He had some sort of problematic issue and then people were sick of him and they voted Imran Khan in. But then, you know, not long after he's in office, he's thrown into jail. This is another similar tactic where

if there is somebody that is trying to do the right thing and essentially stand in their way, we often find that there's people on kind of false premises or spurious charges are thrown into jail and then they're having to really fight to get out. And I think in terms of Imran Khan, if you look at the amount of time he spent in jail, it is absolutely ridiculous, him and his wife. you know, it's not, the charges certainly seem spurious. Now, why do I bring that all up?

Because the leader they've got at the moment that's installed there is quite clearly a puppet leader from the West. And what will that mean? If we imagine that in 2035 and beyond, by the time they have these very institutionalized puppet leaders that we also see, unfortunately, in the Middle East these days, is that by the time they flooded the Kashmir Valley, Pakistan won't.

object to it, right? Because historically Pakistan view India's sort of actions and moving into the valley as a threat and responded. I think what we're seeing now is Pakistan has a very more paired back approach and doesn't want to fight for the valley or really, you know, stick up for the valley in that way. And that's a change that we've definitely seen in recent years. I think by the time

you know, India wants to fully flood the valley, Pakistan's not going to do anything about it. It will probably weigh up the pros and cons of getting involved and its various agreements with the Western world and by default then Zionists essentially. And I think that by the time it starts knocking on Pakistan's door, it's going to be complicated because Pakistan has its own supporters. But I do think that this will create the conditions

where India will not be challenged in a similar way that we're really seeing Israel not being challenged at the moment. So these are not incidental, don't think Ray, these are planned and this is what I mean by weakening. Do you agree with that, you know, assessment?

Ray (23:31)
yeah, I totally agree with you. And in fact, I'm thinking about taking back something I said before and just adding more to it. So taking back saying that Israel is a decade ahead of India. I think Israel is a bit more than a decade, like three decades ahead of India.

Teyshi (23:48)
Possibly. But I do think India's catching up quite quickly, I'll be honest. We're gone.

Ray (23:53)
Well, you know, I think they've received the textbook and now they are just running through it and applying what's in there. Absolutely. Because, you know, if you look at what's happening now in the area, in the Middle East, right? Now, you know, when we saw what Israel is doing since October the 7th, and even before that, but let's talk about October the 7th because it's the most atrocious so far, right? What they are doing now. As you said,

From these surrounding countries, the neighboring countries, the neighboring governments, no one is doing anything. They're just watching and maybe they are just doing some speeches and that's all. So if we think about it this way and of course see what is going on now, especially now in Syria, if we look at it this way that even the Syrian government basically, they didn't really do much.

as a government, as a neighboring country who would care about Palestinians or who would stand up for them at least. They didn't really do much. So again, the frustration of seeing the complete silence and how complicit these powers or these neighbors are, you would think that, you know what, it's a good idea to start for the people in those countries to start moving and...

looking for a change and guess what okay the change happened now in Syria but again this change came for with a price you know there's this there's a political and there's there's even a military void that is that is created already now right so which made Israel take the move and progress and start starting trying to to progress through the Syrian borders

Teyshi (25:31)
.

Ray (25:31)
under again under the excuse of having a buffer zone but basically they are just moving and again I hope not but I can still see that they are going to try to move further which brought us to the other dilemma or the catch-22 if you like to call it like okay if the complicit government stayed and nothing is happening and the Palestinians were really under all of these atrocities right if the complicit government

is gone, fallen, or the regime has fallen, right? So there is a political and there is a military void that needs to be, it's not going to be covered anytime soon, right? So that's opening the door for Israel to progress and feel like, you know what, there's not so much they can do to stop them, if that makes sense.

Teyshi (26:25)
Yeah, absolutely does make sense. I do think that this is a very interesting scenario, know, that there's a lot of dialogue about this at the moment. In terms of these kind of modern day occupier tactics, do you feel, we know that we've talked about, you know, how they operate, how they're unchecked, but can they really be fully unchecked? I mean, in a situation, if you were to

considered the nth degree, could you really imagine, let's just talk about Israel, Israel seizing the land. Let's just say, for example, you did mention Iraq. I don't know if there's some parts of Iran where in there, and we know that Iran is, you know, in a particular situation as well. And there's a lot of dialogue about, you know, different kind of motivations about things, but is it, can we feasibly see Israel doing that and doing those land grabs?

Do we think that that's going to be easy, realistic, difficult challenges?

Ray (27:25)
Look, it's not gonna be easy. It's not gonna be easy because, for one simple reason, so far for the last 76 years, know, Israel has been operating on a small, small span, let's say, limited number of population, Limited, of course, limited area. But now when they are going to expand, okay, then they are going to need...

Well, I'm not going to help them here, but they are not going to, of course they are going to need the resources to cover the land that they are grabbing, if that makes sense. Right? Plus, you know, they're entering an area, again, when we are talking about Syria now, because it is happening, so we can read, at least we can read through what is happening now. When they're entering that area, you know, they entered an area which had been going through

Teyshi (27:54)
Yeah.

Ray (28:14)
some war for the last 13 years. know, it eased a little bit in the last couple of years, but it was still in war. Which means, you know, people are still, the people there and the area itself is still prepared for some more events, some more military events if we're gonna call it this way.

So that would make, you know, it's not like, you know, they are going into an empty land. They're not going into a land where people, you know, they have never seen a war before, or they are not even getting ready to, for that war. You know, people are still within this war. So if they are getting in, this is not going to be an easy task for them. Okay, again, so we're talking about the area, we're talking about, you know, higher population, we're talking about people who are,

still, I don't know if it's the right way to say it, they're still in the mood. It's not the right way to express it, but they're still in the setting of the war. They're still in the setting of, they're not really like, you know, living peacefully for a while, and now all of a sudden, we've got some sort of war, some sort of offensive happening. No, they have been going through that. So you would expect resistance?

Teyshi (29:33)
.

Ray (29:36)
Yes, would you expect difficulties that they are going to face? Of course they are going to face difficulties. Especially if we are going to progress in the land itself. How experienced they are in the geography of the land. I'm sure they are not as experienced as the people who live in that land. And Syria, by the way, they have got... Of course that's before the war. The population of Syria was 25 million people.

Teyshi (30:06)
Yeah.

Ray (30:02)
that in on a comparably small area like the population of Australia is 26 million people and we talking about the continent here right so yes there are there are millions who have been displaced there are millions who fled but still we're talking about millions who are still there and millions who are willing to come back you know if you see the news now you know people want to come back so again it is not

Teyshi (30:26)
Yeah.

Ray (30:29)
it is not an easy trip for them. It will never be an easy trip for them. So they are going to face difficulties, they are going to face constraints, and I'm sure that even domestically, there will be some debates about the feasibility and the potential of them progressing. I don't know if you agree with me.

Teyshi (30:50)
Absolutely, I think this is quite an interesting one because I have heard a lot of this and it does really flesh out the subject a lot more because I think there is probably a tendency

from, let's say for me, as an outsider to what's happening in Syria at the moment, there might be a tendency to oversimplify things, to really kind of make things a bit more black and white than they are. You're completely right, they will face resistance, they will have challenges of how well do they actually know the land compared to the people that live there? And then there's the matter of resources, which does get brought up quite a lot. The respective countries that might wade into these

Because we know that when one country gets involved, its allies get involved. And then there's been conversations that, you know, these people simply don't have the resources. You know, whether you're talking about, I don't know, arms or the intelligence in those areas, whether you're even just talking about the cannon fodder of the basics, the number of soldiers they need, which is why in the West, they've been heavily talking about conscription for the first time in probably, I don't know, I feel like it's a...

to a century if not that, certainly in Britain, talking about conscription because there's this idea that at some point we will be plunged into a wider conflict but we simply do not have the resources. I do hear that being spoken about. I feel like though for me they are there with such intent and with such boldness and for me

had executed this series of events so proactively and so potently in the way that they have, I feel like they would have the resources or some kind of backup. mean, for example, we know that there's a lot of people in India, over a billion. We know that they send the Indians over to go in the ITF. For example, if we just look at Israel. And so there's an idea that, you know,

we've got the manpower covered. I'm wondering whether they have these backups and understandings of where they can cover the shortfalls because to my mind to wage such overt and aggression to these you know areas and yet not have the backup plan for it I feel like there's something that we don't know or that or

I mean, look, what are we talking about? If you try and get into this endeavor, but you simply cannot back it up, you're obviously going to have a massive, disastrous failure on your hands. So that would be the one, you know, a kind of outcome. But the way that Israel operates and especially the way that India is really kind of closely following its lead is that

I think whether it's between themselves and between other allies that they may not have in common, there are things being put into place. This is my feeling, whether that ultimately, how much that boosts them and covers these shortfalls that we're talking about, whether, you know, let's just say, for example, there are people that are on the ground in Syria, for example, who do know the land. And for example, let's just say they want to get people on side in Syria.

then at the point that if there was an affiliation with one of these, you know, outside players and bad actors, then they would fulfill that shortfall. It is just kind of like a discussion point. But to me, I don't feel like Israel would be so bold as it's being without some backup. That's my feeling. But, you know, we have seen, we have seen, we have seen attempted...

Takeovers and we have seen them fail. So I think it remains to be seen. But again, I sort of bow to your sort of greater knowledge on that I'm very interested with India. I feel like with India it has the manpower I think it's hundred percent Stockpiling whether it's you know arms weapons Resources getting things in plane. I feel like India is being super super clever. My personal opinion is that it

like you said, took the Israeli Zionist textbook, I think it actually is doing it better in my opinion. I think that it is carrying out its own brand of comparative Zionism, but it's actually doing it better. That's what I feel. But you know, it all remains to be seen, right? We don't... This is all speculation, but it's all interesting because it kind of fits in with these ideas of greater Israel, you know.

People said for a long time it was conspiracy. So right now what's happening is really, really interesting.

Ray (35:25)
Absolutely, absolutely. And look, just touching on the concept of the manpower and all the, let's say, the equipment that they need in order to keep progressing, right? And even having a backup plan. Look, of course, in case you haven't really seen the news, especially yesterday and today, what they are doing now is that they are doing airstrikes on military bases.

Abandoned military bases in Syria right after the the the regime army left them right? What are they doing now? They are trying to paralyze any potential military power that can be used Against them when they progress especially knowing that you know in Syria. There is the the concept of the compulsory military service as Soon as the person turns 18 or finish college. They would go for two years

for compulsory military service. They would be categorized, they would be sent to different, you know, each person or each individual. They would be sent to different specialty or different area or units in the military. It could be engineering, it could be air force, it could be ground forces. the people there are actually trained. The people in Syria, most of them are actually trained. So.

If they have the equipment, they can use them. So what Israel is doing now is actually doing airstrikes against the military bases just to make sure that that part is paralyzed, cannot really be used. So that, when you mention the backup plan, that's what they are doing now. Right? But again, you know, we know already from what we can see in Gaza, okay, despite the destruction that they are causing,

Teyshi (36:54)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Ray (37:09)
but they're also getting drained there. They're getting drained in terms of the costs of the losses of equipment and of course manpower. Probably the manpower not because, you know, not that much or not as much as we would actually would want to see. But there is loss of the equipment because, you know, they are still progressing on a limited scale there. So if they wanna...

progress or if you want to expand, then just like, you know, think about it this way, you've got one tap of water that is open versus three or four taps of water. How long it's going to take or how soon it's going to take it to empty the reservoir, you know what I mean? Or to drain it. So that's what I, that's at least me, that's what I'm hoping to see that, you know, it's going to drain quickly. That's what it is.

Teyshi (38:02)
Mm-hmm.

Ray (38:04)
even with the external support from other powers and other entities.

Teyshi (38:10)
Yeah, so maybe that's why they're probably playing the long game actually, yeah. And that would make sense in that context. think, you know, certainly with India, some of the challenges it's faced is it's dealing with the sort of Himalayan regions, which, you know, India, when you look at the territory of most of India, it has no comparison to that. So I feel like there's been a long

learning curve for the soldiers that are in the valley. know that there are ITF soldiers in Kashmir Valley now sort of imparting their kind of, you know, wisdom of being brute oppressors so that the Indian soldiers can carry out the same tactics on Kashmiri civilians. But I think that there is some sort of long kind of learning curve and these challenges, whether they're terrain, whether they're resources, whether it's, you know,

kind of facing, you know, the world's opposition and outcry, there is incredibly complicated. So would 100 % agree with you there. I think all we can do as we have been, Ray, is keep speaking about these issues. Our role as activists is, you know, to keep talking about it and help people.

kind of realise and wake up because as you and I both know, a lot of these behaviours are done in secrecy, right?

Ray (39:33)
Absolutely, absolutely.

Teyshi (39:36)
Well, Ray, I think we've come to the end of it. So, you know, I think we've had a really great discussion. I've learned a lot from you, especially in terms of what Israel's doing. It definitely has given me food for thought about India. What kind of conclusions do you, if any, do feel that you might have drawn from our conversation?

Ray (39:54)
Well, look, I think the conclusion came during our conversation, which is, you know, it seems like India is using the textbook that was used by Israel, right? Now, they've got those expansion ideas, if we call them, you know, they're based on the nationalist visions or the religious visions. Again, we're seeing some similarities here.

Teyshi (40:07)
Mm-hmm.

Ray (40:19)
in both cases. They might differ a little bit in terms of the religious foundations or geographical scope or maybe practical constraints they might face. But still, again, we can see similarities. We can see one is learning from the other. And just following the steps.

Teyshi (40:22)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And it remains to be seen who does it best, I guess. But listen, thank you so much for joining me today. It's been brilliant. Did you want to say a few more words to lead us out?

Ray (40:50)
Well, thank you very much for having me here. I really look forward to our next episode. I hope I'm gonna be part of it. If I'm not, I would really enjoy listening to it.

Teyshi (41:01)
Well, it's always a pleasure, Anytime we get an excuse to get you on a podcast, we're absolutely going to do it. And to that end, I will say that we've got podcasts coming up looking at Hinduism and Zionism. So I think you could absolutely take a part in that. I'll personally be looking at podcasts to do with Indian folklore and urban legends and myths. So that should be a fun one. But yeah, thank you so much, Ray. Appreciate you.

Ray (41:24)
Thank very much. Have a great day.

Teyshi (41:26)
Join us next time everyone. Bye bye.

Ray (41:29)
Bye.