Austin (00:19)
Hi everybody, welcome back to the Kashmir Exists podcast. My name is Austin and with me today is my good friend Tishi. And we are here today to talk about the climate and weather within Kashmir Valley and how that relates to the tourism and to the everyday life of the Kashmiri people.

And to just get started here, I wanna give a welcome to Teyshi. Teyshi how are you doing today?

Teyshi (00:45)
Hi Austin, so great to be here with you. We did have, you and I had a podcast right at the beginning, but back in those early Bronze Age times when we were doing it, Austin, we did it on Discord and it didn't turn out too well. So here we are now with more updated technology and we finally got to do a podcast again and I'm really thrilled to be here with you. Thank you.

Austin (00:54)
You

No, thank you. I'm so thrilled to be able to guest host this again. So today, I know that we are going to be diving more into specific natural disasters such as flood and earthquakes. There is also a lot of cold temperatures and certain living conditions that the Kashmir people have to live through, especially being up in the Northern region.

Teyshi (01:19)
Mm hmm.

Austin (01:31)
around the Himalayan Valley, but not near it. And so hearing from you being Kashmiri and having at least grown up for a time in the valley, I would love to hear firsthand to start off what you remember about the weather conditions and how that affected your own experience growing up.

Teyshi (01:52)
Yeah, definitely. you know, the spring and the summers and the autumn in Kashmir Valley are, you know, beautiful, actually. My memories of it are being there till, you know, I came to the West when I was about five. And, you know, I would just describe them, you know, the weather is just being absolutely pleasant. literally...

Not for no reason is it called Paradise on Earth, you it's just, it's just beautiful. And the closest weather that I found to it is actually California. You know, when I've been to California, it's actually very, very similar to that. But of course, in the winter, with Kashmir Valley being at the foothill of the Himalayas, as you mentioned previously, we do experience that heavy snowfall, right? Which mountainous regions, that's what happens.

And although the temperatures themselves really are going to minus one, minus two, minus three, minus four, maybe, that isn't really that cold when you think about it. Because even when I'm in the UK, we can go up to minus 10 quite easily in the winter, right? But I think the difference here is the terrain, obviously, where that particular land is situated. And what that creates is this perfect conditions for heavy, soft snowfall.

Austin (02:53)
Right.

Teyshi (03:04)
So you literally will see over the winter months, the feet and feet and feet of heavy snowfall, which has become, you know, a feature of Kashmir Valley in the winters. There are regions like Bahelgaum, Sonomur, Gulmurg, which are the more sorts of beauty spots.

Because obviously the region is a vast region in the sense of where it lies between the mountains. And people are known to go there not only in the summer, but certainly ski enthusiasts will visit those regions in the winter because it has the perfect conditions for skiing. Beautiful, know, soft snow that it makes it ideal. But yeah, my experiences, you know, being a sort of a young child.

Let me put the scene for you it was mad snow outside. course, we didn't notice it because kids usually are oblivious. We just know it's fun, right? But it was cold. so what most households you would see is that the people would be wearing the wife mentioned before in previous podcasts, a parent, which is that very loose fitting, usually woolen, especially in the winter, woolen material tunic.

Austin (03:57)
Right.

Teyshi (04:15)
that is very, it's kind of like an A line. It has a loose fitting sleeves. it has sort of a bit like a V neck, a circular and then V neck neckline. And what people would usually do is they would huddle, with, you know, and crouching, especially before modern times, wearing the perron that keeps the heat in. And then they would have their gangur. Now I have to mention that the correct pronunciation of gangur.

Right. There is another way of saying it, which is Kangri, but this isn't strict Kashmiri. That is a little bit of a redo ization. I just wanted to correct that while I had the opportunity on this podcast. One of the things that was striving to do is to keep the Kaesher language free from the effects of, you know, colonizers. Right. So the Kangri is that object, which is that clay pot encased in a woven sort of, carrier.

just Google K-A-N-G-R. Most people know what the ganger looks like because I've talked about it. But within that earthen pot, we have hot coals. And if you were to take that and sit down with your perron, you could put that ganger underneath the perron while you're crouched down. Be very careful, of course. And this is how people were kept warm. Okay. and yeah.

And they would even walk around with it in the winter. They would walk around with their kanga. So yeah, this is my memory of being in the cold weather in Kashmir. have seen family and I was a young child running around at that point, seeing family members, wearing the parent, crouching down, having the kangas to keep them warm. And one of the favorite things at the time that my dad used to do is

He would take chicken giblets, such as the liver and the heart and stuff like that, the little giblets that are in chickens, and he would toast them over the fire, the fireplace, and we would eat them. And we were really delighted by this because it was very exciting. Our dad was doing something very, what seemed to us as an amazing thing.

And that was also considered a treat, especially in the winters. It's a good source of, as you must know, a sustenance to eat the giblets. We just thought that it was absolutely amazing. And again, was that that activity is very much tied to the winter. The actual word for it, I think, either buzzin' or buzzwin'. I can't remember, because obviously I haven't referred to that in many decades, but the activity of

Austin (06:28)
Yeah.

Teyshi (06:46)
Toasting the giblets over the fire is either called buzzin or buzz one some some kershid person will correct me on that but buzz buzz one literally means to Burn right to toast over the fire and that's what the the when you eat the giblets toaster of fires called or the activity of doing it Buzz one So there's my little memory for you. I bet you weren't expecting that

Austin (07:07)
thank you so much. love learning like all these little things about like firsthand experience because I think that that brings I mean, we said this in the first episode we ever did, but it brings so much more clarity to the overall the overall story and message that we're we're ultimately trying to show here, which is that Kashmir Valley exists, that it has been veiled for far too long from the world. And it's it's

time that we show the world the beauty of Kashmir.

Teyshi (07:36)
Absolutely Austin. It often gets overshadowed by not only India, but the other identity of Pakistani Kashmiris. And Pakistani Kashmiris have a very different background to ethnic Kashmiris from the valley. So the things that I'm describing there, for example, wearing the peran, using the kangar, toasting the giblets, which is called buswan, these are only happening in the valley.

And it's important, like you said, to establish the identity of Gershaw people from the valley because that identity is the key to our survival and it will help, you know, stop the ensuing ethnic cleansing, which obviously the Indian government are in the midst of carrying out.

Austin (08:20)
Yeah, for sure. you know, to keep on this idea of, you know, I remember in the first episode, we talked about the tourism aspect of Kashmir and how for so long, Kashmir was seen as this destination to be visited. The valley being so beautiful with snowy mountains all around, as you've already described. If you recall, can you kind of remember

Like how those winter months where there was the heavier snow, where there was like it says here, Chopin was at negative 5.5 degrees Celsius. Like if you remember, how were those conditions either beneficial to tourists or maybe kept tourists away during those months?

Teyshi (08:53)
Mm-hmm.

Well, yeah, there's a fine line between enjoying the snow and it being dangerous. We all know this. So my experience of snowfall, luckily for me, any time that I've been to Kashmir, have fallen within the normal range. However, it was in certain years. it is yearly, it's annually fatal, by the way, the snow. It does kill a number of people because the sheer volume.

Austin (09:10)
Right.

Teyshi (09:32)
of the snow, like I said, it will literally go into feet and feet and feet. And so the ones that have been, you know, in my memory stick out that were reported, whether it's the news, whether it's social media is houses that perhaps weren't that well constructed, let's say with weak infrastructure, with tin roofs, for example, succumbing to the great snowfalls where the snow would build up and it would like go to so many feet before.

the collective weight of that drift on the roof would then collapse the roof. And you would see whole roofs and even some houses collapsing under the sheer weight of the snow. So I think when you talk about area like Chopin, indeed it was minus 5.5, which like I say, in the UK, we can go colder than that. However, you're talking about that unique situation where you have that.

type of snow and that volume of snow which you know is very it's not a common thing even in the UK when we've had a lot of snow it's been a very rare occurrence within the valley this is absolutely common to find so yeah so in those in terms of like tourism when you have this lovely soft snow like I said before it's perfect for the skiing

However, it can turn dangerous because at the point where it hardens and impacts, it can turn into concrete. I think you've got the obvious risks of being stuck, immobile, electricity outages, which do happen quite frequently because this is a feature of what India does to Kashmir.

there will be a point, a tipping point then where it becomes a threat to life. So tourists would be well advised to go in the months where they will have the direction where it's perfect for skiing. But there are certainly going to be times within the Kashmir Valley region where, like most Kashmiris, we just stay indoors. You we don't frolic in the snow, right? That's not something we do. We stay indoors, we keep safe.

Austin (11:24)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Teyshi (11:37)
Going outside is very limited and in certain situations it may only be the man in the house that goes outside. I do remember one year around 2012 where my grandmother had passed away and the family obviously, you know, attended the burial and this was in feet and feet of snow. This was done because, you know, this was something that needed to be done.

And so going out of the normative actions of not going in the snow, I remember that, you know, they were ploughing through the snow to get to the cemetery to pay last respects and to give her the send off. that's what you'd call an exception. Otherwise you will not find the average Gershir.

civilian, you know, average Kershaw person doing that. We do not go out in the snow when it's that crazy unless we absolutely have to.

Austin (12:33)
Yeah, I totally understand that. And it really shows like such a cultural difference because here in, so I'm, I'm in America and here in America, in the United States, it's very common for like kids, especially to like run out when there's a first snow. And even if there's a blizzard, people will be outside playing. it's just, it's, it's interesting because it, I love learning.

like the different ways that how we're brought up, we interact with the natural world around us. It's so cool. And I think it's interesting too. You mentioned earlier that sometimes when there's really heavy snow that some of the homes will cave in like the roofs. And I know I've heard that the homes in Kashmir can be less insulated often.

Teyshi (12:58)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Austin (13:25)
Is that like, can that cause issue during the winter time, especially since electricity and the way that the occupation has kept electricity, you know, they've gotten more control over those utilities in, especially in recent years. Basically, how, from the best of your memory, do you remember

Teyshi (13:31)
Mm-hmm.

Austin (13:48)
that possibly being an issue growing up.

Teyshi (13:51)
It's funny that you are writing what you say. the houses are bricks and mortar usually, that's what you normally find. They're not insulated, you're entirely correct on that. I think with the roofs, that is something that is...

how wealthy you are, whether you have a roof that can withstand weathers. Some people may not be able to afford it and so some people in Kashmir might have tin roofs. Maybe some people don't want to spend the money. Maybe they can, but they just didn't want to spend the money and cut corners to make a tin roof. Not every house in Kashmir has a tin roof. It's either going to be due to lack of funds or because people were trying to cut corners. But those people, and I've seen three story houses.

with tin roofs, I've seen houses, you know, that if you think that they afford to make a three story house, but then decided to skimp on the roof, they then coming and stuck in the heavy snowfall and the whole roof, not the, certainly the third and the second floor caving in. So they had to learn it the hard way, right? So in some ways it is a matter of privilege. If you can afford a well-constructed house, then you can withstand.

the heavy winters, but I would say that I can't think of any house that I personally know that is insulated. It's not. I think, you know, if we're being real, Kashmiris are hardened to it. You know, they are very kind of tough people, right? We're tough people. I mean, I didn't spend many winters there, but we just get on with it. Like we put a big woolly perin on, a kanga, and off we go, you know? That's really how...

Austin (15:14)
.

you

Teyshi (15:27)
we sort of get on with it, we're quite tough. In the UK there are Northerners who say the same thing, know, we're Northern, when there's a crazy cold weather outside we don't turn the heating on in the UK, because we have heating in the UK, we just put a big jumper on, it's a similar mentality. So how does it affect us? I would say that the average person, we just get on with it.

when it's not a big deal, we just, it's cold, that's fine. I mean, me as a young child, I just ran around the house. There will have been young children that in the first bits of snow would have gone out and enjoyed it, but at the point where it starts to really stack up, everyone is kept indoors for safety. So yeah, that that's really how the winters go over there. is understood that there is gonna be a period of at least a month.

where there's not gonna be much mobility and we're indoors and that's how it goes.

Austin (16:18)
That's it. Yeah, that's incredible. And what I'm very thankful that you like opened up about that, because I think that's an issue that does lead into the occupation because as they gain more control over things like utility,

like the going in and out of resources, winters and such harsher conditions as this are only going to get worse. And so it's so imperative that we bring this up, especially when talking about things like natural disasters. And I've also heard that there was a great flood in 2014, and that was like the last huge flood to affect the valley.

Teyshi (16:40)
Absolutely.

Mm-hmm.

Austin (16:58)
Would you like to talk about that a little bit more?

Teyshi (17:01)
Yeah, I can tell you from my own point of view, I wasn't in the valley during that period. So I was in the UK and it hit obviously all the headlines. It was in social media. It was quite terrifying. I'm going to go on record to say that, know, because Chimera Valley itself doesn't, this type of flooding that we're talking about 2014 isn't commonplace. While there might be, you know, drainage issues, which may lead to certain banks.

know, flooding or being compromised. This level of flooding we saw. Now I did mention before that, you know, it's quite normal in Kashmir to see three story tall buildings, right? This is quite normal because people had large families. Three story houses are perfectly commonplace in the valley, but what we were seeing, and I remember it was shown on the news and on social media that the flood

Austin (17:37)
Yeah.

Teyshi (17:51)
levels reach such crazy proportions that they were flooding right up and beyond the third story. That is the extent to the flooding in 2014. So it was certainly, you know, unusual. It was record breaking, certainly. We were just like, what the heck? Because I'd never seen the valley like this. It was actually...

I think there were massive questions around how has this been allowed to happen? You know, how did this even happen? I think the overall sorts of accepted reasons are that because there is more industrialization, more buildings, the natural drainage of the land was compromised. And so where the buildup of water with the heavy rainfall and the

the banks of a river flooding would have normally been soaked up by the soil and by land because of the over kind of building and whether it was, you know, you think of it as businesses building more, you could think of it as tourism, whatever the reason, the natural amount of land that would have soaked up that excessive rainfall and water wasn't there.

anymore because of the industrialization. And so when you don't have that amount of natural drainage, you are then going to get flood conditions that we saw.

Austin (19:13)
That's so interesting and I would love to unpack that more whether in this episode or in another episode because I think that's such a common thing that has happened, especially in recent history where rapid industrialization of certain places that used to be very natural wonders, natural beauty, a lot more as you said agricultural.

and you know, not so, smoggy industrialized, like so much of, of the bigger cities in the world have become. it's, it's such a fascinating thing to talk about because, and such a devastating thing because we're seeing all over the world, whether it is in cashmere Valley or, just all over the world, we're seeing these uptick in natural disasters. And so much of it.

Teyshi (19:43)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah.

100%, 100%, yes.

Austin (20:01)
Right. And so much of it has to do with this industrialization and this rapid industrialization.

Teyshi (20:09)
Yeah. And I have to say as well, Austin, that was talking about the summers that I grew up in and went to visit back and forth. Those summers have changed now. You know, if we're sort of, if we're hinting at things like climate change, then the summers have definitely gone more humid, hotter, unbearable. That is, that is a change that I have seen in my own lifetime. that is something that's new to the valley in the last couple of decades that wasn't a regular feature. So yes.

Austin (20:18)
Yeah.

Teyshi (20:36)
we are seeing those changes that you speak of.

Austin (20:38)
Yeah, exactly. mean, even even where I live in the Midwest and in America, I grew up seeing like all these different variety of butterflies, beautiful creatures, like like so much wildlife. And now like there's barely any insects in the summer. There's like it's so quiet and it's so it's it's sad. And, you know, to continue on to that, I

Teyshi (20:58)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Austin (21:03)
You know, I've heard too that earthquakes have become increasingly more common in the Valley and in that region. And that the largest recent earthquake was in 2005 and it was a 7.6, which is really high up there. If I remember correctly, you were not in the Valley then either, but do you remember for any family you still have there or anything that you've like

Teyshi (21:26)
Yeah, yeah, there has been, yeah, there's always, you're right, because here's the thing, that part of, you know, South Asia, those tectonic plates, if I think that's correct terminology, they are basically, it's where that landmass crashed into, we say crashed, it happened very slowly, into the Europe's plate, right? And so you, because where you have those plates,

Austin (21:28)
Yeah.

Yeah

Teyshi (21:54)
that junction you will regularly have things like whether it's earthquakes, tremors, have you, aftershocks and all the rest of it. I wasn't in Kashmir in 2005 exactly and but this is very much something that is regular. However I was in Kashmir one summer where there was an earthquake and the Kashmiris themselves are very used to it.

So I was sitting in the lounge. I was sitting on a big armchair and it was next to window and the armchair started swaying. Literally swaying, swinging right to left as if I was being rocked. Now immediately I started shouting and my uncle, who was a bit of a prankster, stopped messing about. So I thought he was outside the window, reached his arms in and lifted the chair up and had started.

Austin (22:30)
wow.

Teyshi (22:48)
know, swinging the chair. So I went to immediately kind of my uncle off, he was always playing tricks on me. And when I turned around, there was nobody there. And when I happened to look in the room, the whole room was swing and it just dawned on me, my God, the earth's moving. And this turned out to be some kind of aftershock or tremor from some, you know, the center point of the actual earthquake, which was some other place, which I don't know where it was.

Austin (22:49)
Right?

Teyshi (23:15)
We do know that the Pakistan side have a lot of earthquakes and floods, by the way, we should also mention that they routinely have more floods than Kashmir Valley and floods that have been known in Pakistan to kill 80,000 people, right? They have them immensely. So there are times that even in Kashmir Valley, we're going to have our own earthquakes. There are going to be times where we're feeling tremors and aftershocks from things that happening in neighboring places. But that, in that situation, that wasn't a full on earthquake. That was literally an aftershock.

Austin (23:28)
Right.

Teyshi (23:44)
But I can tell you that I was swaying from right to left as a pendulum and it was significant. So if we take that as some kind of reference point, you can imagine when a full on earthquake is going on, as of course there's earthquakes happening all over the world, that, you know, we see a lot of damage happening. We see a loss of life injury. But yeah, Kashmir being where it is situationally in the junction.

between the land above that tectonic plate of Eurasia or whatever the exact words are. And of course the South Asian plate, things like earthquakes are very, very common there. And people are used to it because when I was at home, people were like, yeah, it's just an aft shock. While I was being completely stressed out by it, my family were completely oblivious. they were like, yeah, this is just normal.

Austin (24:36)
wow. that's so interesting because I know, and I've known for a long time about the earthquake activity in a lot of Eurasia, in a lot of even the Indian subcontinent. I know that like Japan has a whole bunch of earthquakes around it. So really all of Asia is just like earthquake central in so many ways.

Teyshi (24:53)
Mm-hmm.

We can expect it to get worse, right, as we were mentioning, along with the weather, along with floods. We can expect these to get worse as well.

Austin (25:00)
Right.

Exactly. And, you know, the, would say the natural disasters in my area are like tornadoes and high wind and, you know, things like that. But we really only have a few tectonic plates like the San Andreas fall and those besides that there's like not, that's not something that's super common here in America. So, again, it's super fascinating to learn.

Teyshi (25:16)
Yeah.

you

Mm-hmm.

Austin (25:35)
about the sort of disasters and things that other places are always on high alert of. And, you know, kind of on that same, you know, subject and topic, what are some, like, you already explained a few, but what are some, what would you say are some of your top experiences involving, like, weather or, like, the natural beauty of Kashmir Valley and what are...

Teyshi (25:42)
Yeah.

Yeah, I have a lot. Yeah, I'm so excited. I'm interrupting you because I actually do have a lot. So basic. Thank you. So let's just go back. I did mention that a lot of people lose lives in Pakistan. In fact, in the 2005 earthquake that you were talking about in Kashmir Valley,

Austin (26:02)
some of your, like, bad. Yeah. No, you're okay. You're okay.

Teyshi (26:21)
So there were 1,360 people killed by the earthquake. There were 6,266 injured. That happened in the valley. What I would say is that, you know, it doesn't in any way match up to the Pakistan figure. So they certainly suffer from it more. Nevertheless, it was a big deal, you know, for the Kashmir Valley. Now for me, in terms of weather, I love this question because one of the things that I noticed about

hotter climate is how their insects are bigger, how their thunder and lightning is more audacious, right? And everything from the grass is bigger, everything is just bigger because of the sun and the heat and what have you. So yeah, I've been in Kashmir where, you know, we've had, again, these crazy kind of freak thunder and lightning situations. The lightning was so intense, if I compare it to how we see in the UK, for example.

And I don't know how other, you know, hotter areas in the world can also relate. But in the UK, have regular, I would say, thunder and lightning. It's loud. It's in the sky. It's far away. You can look out the window. It's quite entertaining. And I love it personally. But when I've been in Kashmir and, you know, the thunder and lightning's been going off, it literally is coming into your living room, it feels like. It's very...

close to you. The lightning is thick rods of lightning, not the skinny veins in the sky that we see in the UK. The lightning is quite wide looking. It comes down in that very sort of depiction we have of a lightning rod. It fully touches, whether it's houses, trees and the ground, you feel like you're actually close up and personal to a lightning bolt. And when, and again, the difference is,

When the lightning does strike, it is so bright, it illuminates everything. So for example, if we're in the nighttime, you will literally feel like it's the day. That's how bright the lightning is. It lights up the entire outside in those few seconds that you feel is daytime. That is how bright the lightning strike is. And again, it's kind of whimsical and funny to me because I...

In one occasion, my parents were talking outside in the garden. I'm looking as the lightning's going off. The lightning's striking around them and they're just standing there talking, completely unmoved and unimpressed. Whereas I'm like freaking out, like, my God, did you see that? Again, my parents are completely used to it, you know, and they don't bat an eyelid, they don't flinch. This is totally normal to them.

You know, the fact that the lightning could have reached them, it's as if, you know, they're almost blasé about it. You know, when I tell you that the lightning bolts were that close, that they were, it felt like they were coming into the house almost, that's what they're like. But I did also mention about the insects being bigger. The spiders are huge compared, I'm comparing it to my experience of being in Europe. You know, each insect is massive, whether you're talking about an ant.

You know, you could be talking about any kind of insects, but I do remember one occasion where when my sister was in Kashmir, she chanced upon a scorpion in the bedroom and she let out a blood-curdling scream because, she'd probably never come face-to-face with a scorpion, so she was absolutely petrified. My mother ran in, my gosh, what's going on?

And my sister had covered the scorpion with a bowl and she said, and she told my mother that there's a scorpion under the bowl. My mother thought she was being terrorized by some great monster because of how, you know, how shrill my sister's reaction had been. Anyway, she lifted the bowl open and my mother just looked at the scorpion and she went, that, that's nothing. And she duly kind of swatted it with her slipper and left. And my sister was just left watching her again.

You have to understand about people in these sort of climates and I can certainly speak about, you know, the people in Kashmir. They're very blasé, they're very, you know, yes, the floods, the flood, by the way, would have 100 % shaken them. This was something that was completely, you know, unknown to us. The heavy levels of snow, again, it's just something we take in our stride. The insects, we don't get freaked out by insects. The lightning will stand there while lightning is striking all around us. Not me personally, but, you know, I'm talking collectively.

This is the stamp of the Kashmiri. We're used to these hot summers and these very, you know, heavy snowfall winters and we just take it in our stride. And again, that leads to your point of why on the house it's insulated because we just, you know, we just take it, right? We're just very, it's cool. It's snowing, that's fine. We just get on with it. This is the kind of attitude that I'm trying to convey that exists within the Kershaw.

minds and this is how they are and it's quite impressive I quite like it. I've yet to get there because I spent a large portion of my adulthood in the West and I think that's been bred out of me almost but I personally find that quite impressive I quite like that about Kashmir people were quite resilient really.

Austin (31:20)
That's incredible. love that's what I love so much about the people of Kashmir and so many other people that, you know, have been under an oppressive system of colonialism, oppression, that so many of them find resilience and you find the most resilient and the most kindhearted people among them. It shows so much

beauty of humanity that yeah I I don't I don't know how else to describe it than that so

Teyshi (31:51)
Yeah, it is fascinating and for anybody that wants to visit Kashmir it is you know a great place for tourists. Of course if you visit in the summer months you will just see the balmy scenes of Dal Lake, you can go up and go to other various. There's the Lalit Palace which now has a different name but it's always been known as Lalit Palace.

There are various different places that you can visit that will give you... There's Nishat Bagh, there's a lot of very famous, Bari Mahal, my favourite, the Hari Parbat, which is the fort I always looked out of my window as a child and I was obsessed with it being a castle and there was a princess in there and I was absolutely obsessed by these. You know, if you imagine that you grow up looking out the window and seeing a castle and in your mind there's a fairy princess in there, these are very...

magical ways to kind of grow up. you know, certainly as people who want to visit there as tourists, you can get a slice of that feeling. That's what you'll have in the summer. More in the autumn months, you'll see the cooler seasons, but then there's the beauty of fall weather, the orange leaves, the chinar tree. When you see Kashmiris with the orange leaf emoji, which normally for at least Americans is associated with Canada, we have that in Kashmir as symbolism.

It's the Chinara tree, is very famous and indigenous to Kashmir in that way. You will see a lot of the orange and yellows of autumn. It's beautiful. And of course, in the winter for tourists, great one for enthusiasts of skiing and all kinds of snow sports. It's a great place to visit. You know, I'll be honest, if I could live there full time, I would. That's how I strongly feel about it. I would encourage anyone, everyone to visit Kashmir, not only for the reasons that we've mentioned.

you know, geopolitically, the crisis, it's going through the occupation to support it and support the locals to support their, you know, economy. But also because you have to remember something about Kashmir Valley. It's world famous. You know, it's been it's been given the title of Paradise on Earth. It was visited. My own family's gardens that were open to tourists was visited by the likes of the Beatles in the 70s.

by the likes of the Rolling Stones. Mick Jagger has been to our family's gardens and purchased scents from there. This is a world famous area and it's because of the occupation, it's gone into a bit of not exactly decline, but obviously the tourism has decreased that affects the locals playing into the hands of the Indians. So I would encourage anyone to visit there. Tourists are treated so well. Kashmiris are very welcoming to everybody.

very hospitable. Definitely take a ride on Dull Lake in a shikara and stay in a houseboat, you will love it. You will enjoy the weather, the scenes of the mountains, the lakes, whether you go in spring, summer, autumn and if you want to enjoy Sonomurg, Gulmurg, Bahelgaum, these are the places where people go to vacation all year round but especially enjoy skiing in. This will be a great treat and it's

And it's off the beaten track, right? It's not, you know, the usual. It's somewhere different. And I think it's important for people to see Kashmir themselves and experience the weather and the climate. You know, hopefully you don't go in earthquake season. Or when the floods are hitting. Like I say, it's very unusual for the floods, but yeah, from my point of view, I would encourage people to visit Kashmir. It's an experience like nothing else.

Austin (35:25)
And each episode that I listen to, each episode I get to guest host, I look forward to visiting more and more. So thank you so much for everything that you shared today. And it's been a pleasure.

Teyshi (35:36)
Absolutely, thank you so much Austin, it's been great and I look forward to speak soon. Bye bye.

Austin (35:41)
Bye!