1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:08,320 You know, I'm somebody who works in ed tech circles and journalism, obviously, but I think 2 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:12,880 we've done sort of a poor job of making the case for students about why what we teach 3 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:13,880 matters. 4 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:19,560 And we're starting to see that with, you know, chronic absenteeism and a willingness to 5 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:25,400 cheat, not just the how, because kids have always cheated, always, maybe some of you 6 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:31,720 have cheated, but, you know, thinking about disincentivizing that reason for cheating. 7 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:38,640 And at the same time, this isn't about policing kids or making tricks, you know, tying ourselves 8 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:45,040 in knots to find these, you know, really strange ways to prevent kids from cheating. 9 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:52,720 It's like, how can we work together to actually enjoy ourselves and do something meaningful? 10 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:56,120 Thank you for joining me for another episode of Life Snacks Lesson Plan. 11 00:00:56,120 --> 00:01:01,760 I'm Rachel and I started this podcast during my 29th and last year as a high school teacher. 12 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:07,120 The goal of my work with Life Snacks Lesson Plan, as well as my live and learn Patreon, 13 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:09,600 is to create a connection where we are all teachers. 14 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:13,840 We all have lessons and stories to share that can help others. 15 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:18,680 I'm so fortunate to be able to extend the four walls of my previous classroom to an 16 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:23,000 unlimited audience where we can all learn from each other. 17 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:27,920 And my guests are some of the most inspirational people with the best stories and lessons I 18 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:31,600 know, which is why I want to share them with you. 19 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:33,760 Their words are something everyone should hear. 20 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:38,640 It is my hope that you are able to take away something from each episode to apply to your 21 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:44,960 own life, whether that be a career search, path to a more fulfilling life, or new ideas 22 00:01:44,960 --> 00:01:53,640 on current topics. 23 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:57,840 It is my honor today to introduce Michael Hernandez to you. 24 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:01,720 I was saying to Michael, we've known each other for quite a while, so I had to look 25 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:05,160 up exactly when we met. 26 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:10,520 And we met in Ithaca, New York in 2013. 27 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:17,840 We had both one, with a handful of people, had won a journalistic-related award, and 28 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:24,640 they flew us out to Ithaca, New York, where I've never experienced before an airport where 29 00:02:24,640 --> 00:02:30,360 they will cook you a breakfast in front of you, like a home-cooked meal. 30 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:33,080 That was my first experience with that. 31 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:38,680 But we got to tour Ithaca College and have a nice dinner and meet with other journalism 32 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:40,080 professionals. 33 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:45,720 And so that's going back to 2013, which seems like a blur. 34 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:52,760 And we are taping this now at the end of January 2025. 35 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:59,280 Michael lives in California, so I wanted him to just talk a little bit, because it's been 36 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:06,440 in the news before we get into his background, what's been going on with the fires in LA, 37 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:09,760 because I know that he is near that. 38 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:13,200 And these are topics that he's talking about in his classroom. 39 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:17,360 So if you don't mind, feel free to say your bio first, and then we can talk about the 40 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:21,360 fires or we can talk about the fires first, and then hear your background. 41 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:22,360 Up to you. 42 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:23,360 Yeah. 43 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:25,000 Thanks so much for having me. 44 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:29,200 And it's great to have that sort of flashback to how I remember years ago, 2013, and I might 45 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:30,200 do the math right. 46 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:34,240 But yeah, so I'm a high school teacher in the Los Angeles area. 47 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:39,320 I've been teaching now, this is my 26th year, and I teach media arts, which includes broadcast 48 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:47,480 journalism, film production, photography, graphic design, and thinking back, what a 49 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:52,040 long journey that's been and how technology and the world has changed in that time. 50 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:54,640 It's a lot of changes that have impacted education. 51 00:03:54,640 --> 00:04:00,760 But yeah, being in Los Angeles, just after the fires have just been sort of contained, 52 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:04,600 luckily, my house and my school are far from the fires. 53 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:06,720 So we weren't directly impacted by it. 54 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:11,520 But we did have bad air quality for a few days, and now we're receiving a lot of students 55 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:14,120 who have been displaced by the fires. 56 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:20,160 And so you think over 180,000 people have been displaced, like lost their homes or cannot 57 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:21,160 return. 58 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:25,640 And so a lot of students are scattered across the city. 59 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:31,400 And Los Angeles is a very large city and conglomerate of other associated nearby cities. 60 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:38,360 And so thinking about how that impacts community, not just like your routine of having a longer 61 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:42,720 commute, but think about in school, you have your friends, you have your routines, you 62 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:44,040 have your teachers, it's comfortable. 63 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:49,480 And suddenly you're jostled when you have to make new friends and new teachers and a 64 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:51,600 new way of school culture. 65 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:53,440 And it just kind of throws everything off. 66 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:57,680 And so it's just sort of fascinating to kind of see how that has impacted culture. 67 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:02,800 And the other thing too, sort of a learning moment, as teachers like to say, is like this 68 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:06,840 is just listening to their news this morning. 69 00:05:06,840 --> 00:05:11,680 Global scientists have determined that the fires were caused by climate change. 70 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:18,280 So there's a number of factors, but the global consensus of experts is that these were caused 71 00:05:18,280 --> 00:05:19,280 by climate change. 72 00:05:19,280 --> 00:05:22,280 And so this idea that you can't escape reality. 73 00:05:22,280 --> 00:05:23,440 There is no bubble. 74 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:25,640 There's no place that you are safe from climate change. 75 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:29,000 And I think I made a post about it, you know, when this happened, I had sort of an emotional 76 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:30,360 sort of reaction all this. 77 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:34,680 And it's like one of the things is like any of us can be refugees at any moment. 78 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:36,280 It's just a matter of luck. 79 00:05:36,280 --> 00:05:40,120 And so when we're thinking about the political climate that we're living in the United States 80 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:45,560 of not wanting to take immigrants from other countries, no matter what the circumstances 81 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:47,960 is like, well, someday you're going to ask for that. 82 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:49,760 And will people return the favor to you? 83 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:55,320 And so it really sort of highlights not only the technical things in the classroom about, 84 00:05:55,320 --> 00:06:02,040 you know, science and facts and doing research and how we need to rely on expertise, but 85 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:03,840 what does it mean to be a good citizen? 86 00:06:03,840 --> 00:06:07,360 What does it mean to be a good neighbor and friend? 87 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:10,600 And all of these cross-cut and interact with each other. 88 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:11,840 There's no silos. 89 00:06:11,840 --> 00:06:13,920 Everything is interdisciplinary. 90 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:16,880 And so I know we're going to talk about this a little later, but that's kind of one of 91 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:20,400 the reasons I wrote my book and published it this year was, you know, this idea that 92 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:22,560 we need to make connections that haven't been made yet. 93 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:27,920 And how can we help the students process these difficult issues? 94 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:30,160 They're not just, you know, facts on a test. 95 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:35,600 They're people's lives and emotions and families and their future. 96 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:36,600 And they want to do something. 97 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:37,880 They need to do something about it. 98 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:43,440 And so, you know, this is just another example of why what we teach matters and how we teach 99 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:48,800 matters because, you know, we don't teach just for the sake of taking tests. 100 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:50,640 We teach to raise good citizens. 101 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:51,960 That's the point in school. 102 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:56,680 And it's just another example of why school matters and why good school matters. 103 00:06:56,680 --> 00:07:03,000 Yeah, really, especially having it be so close to you and then the implication of seeing 104 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:10,200 people who are directly affected, you know, entering the classrooms, it just really re-emphasizes, 105 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:16,280 like you said, the importance of looking at the big picture and how one domino affects 106 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:18,880 the next domino, right? 107 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:26,520 So yeah, Michael mentioned briefly in his bio that he is an author and he is a speaker 108 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:31,160 and he has a very long list of accomplishments. 109 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:34,520 So do you want to talk a little bit about your book? 110 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:37,760 And I know you're going to teach others how to write a book. 111 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:40,240 You have a webinar coming up, correct? 112 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:41,400 Yeah, yeah. 113 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:46,400 So the book that I published is called Storytelling with Purpose, Digital Projects to Ignite Student 114 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:51,680 Curiosity, it's published by ISTI, it's dismerged with ASCD. 115 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:56,480 And it's sort of a labor of love, sort of basically everything that I teach over the 116 00:07:56,480 --> 00:08:00,240 last 25 years sort of culminated into one condensed form. 117 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:06,800 It's basically a guide and roadmap for educators of every grade level and subject area about 118 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:14,560 how to use project-based learning to energize their classrooms and solve the challenges 119 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:19,320 around cheating and low-student engagement and artificial intelligence. 120 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:23,480 So it's the idea that instead of teaching to a test, you teach to a project and you 121 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:27,560 have students find something that they're passionate about and how to leverage their 122 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:34,400 curiosity and their passion and providing a purpose for the assignments to really energize 123 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:39,160 and help the students make connections between our curriculum and their lives to see why 124 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:42,360 it matters and why it's so important. 125 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:47,600 You know, I'm somebody who works in ed tech circles and journalism obviously, but I think 126 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:52,120 we've done sort of a poor job of making the case for students about why what we teach 127 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:53,480 matters. 128 00:08:53,480 --> 00:09:00,160 And we're starting to see that with chronic absenteeism and a willingness to cheat, not 129 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:07,280 just the how, because kids have always cheated, always, maybe some of you have cheated, but 130 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:10,960 thinking about disincentivizing that reason for cheating. 131 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:17,880 And at the same time, this isn't about policing kids or making tricks, you know, tying ourselves 132 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:24,280 in knots to find these, you know, really strange ways to like prevent kids from cheating. 133 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:28,320 It's like, how can we work together to actually enjoy ourselves and do something meaningful? 134 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:34,320 And if we're going to ask our kids to stress out and over in their blood, sweat, and tears 135 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:37,360 into the work of our classrooms, why not put it to good use? 136 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:43,000 You don't have to wait until you're, you know, got a PhD and in 30 years old or 40 years 137 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:46,520 old to make a difference in the world, even a kindergartner can make a difference. 138 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:53,200 And so in a nutshell, that's kind of what the book is about, helping folks find joy and 139 00:09:53,200 --> 00:10:00,480 purpose in learning and do it in a way that is rigorous and hits all the standards and 140 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:02,080 doesn't like kids get away with it. 141 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:06,880 And I think, you know, I wrestled with the title quite a bit because people have a preconceived 142 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:08,760 idea of what the word storytelling means. 143 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:12,120 But I also use the term multimedia research projects. 144 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:14,240 And that sounds a lot more academic and serious. 145 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:15,240 And that's actually what it is. 146 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:17,920 It's like nonfiction stories. 147 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:24,120 So things like a podcast or a digital book, which, you know, can curate a bunch of different 148 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:30,560 sources, infographics to explain your thinking, data visualization, like how do you like on 149 00:10:30,560 --> 00:10:35,400 the book, painting by numbers, data visualization, how do I take data from math or science and 150 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:42,160 make it understandable to an audience using visuals all the way through, you know, explainer 151 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:43,720 videos and documentaries. 152 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:48,800 So it's a whole host of different kinds of ways that we can help kids relate to the content 153 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:52,080 and also to express themselves. 154 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:55,920 And if I can just kind of go in for a little bit about the assessment piece is like, you 155 00:10:55,920 --> 00:11:00,640 know, if I think about going back to your own schooling and your own memory of school, 156 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:01,800 what stood out to you? 157 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:06,880 What are those moments that really resonate, that stick with you as something that a learning 158 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:12,320 moment that was enjoyable, or maybe you had success at, or that kind of sparked an idea 159 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:14,120 or a love for learning? 160 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:15,720 And it probably wasn't a test. 161 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:17,800 And it probably was not an essay. 162 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:19,560 And it was definitely not a worksheet. 163 00:11:19,560 --> 00:11:22,920 It was probably a project, you know, or a team project. 164 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:25,680 We get to collaborate with someone. 165 00:11:25,680 --> 00:11:31,880 And something where you had agency and the teacher trusted you to take it and wrestle 166 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:37,040 with it on your own and sort of have your own sort of personal stamp on things. 167 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:39,800 And I think we need to bring that back. 168 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:42,680 How can we borrow that momentum in our homeless? 169 00:11:42,680 --> 00:11:47,920 And that's going on trying to do with the book and share that widely. 170 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:50,320 And I actually took one of the chapters is on assessment. 171 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:53,480 How do we use story projects as a form of assessment? 172 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:57,200 And I turned that into an online course now so you can kind of go in and self-paced online 173 00:11:57,200 --> 00:11:59,600 course around uncheatable assessments. 174 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:04,680 So yeah, there's a lot of ways that folks can use it and I'm really excited about it. 175 00:12:04,680 --> 00:12:08,840 So we're coming up on the first anniversary of the book being published next month. 176 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:09,840 That's so awesome. 177 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:12,480 Yeah, I definitely have a copy on my shelf. 178 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:17,560 My prerequisite journalism class is called Nonfiction and Visual Storytelling. 179 00:12:17,560 --> 00:12:21,920 And so when I saw your title, I was like, oh yeah. 180 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:23,240 And I am like, I know him. 181 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:24,880 He's going to have good stuff. 182 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:32,920 So I definitely have used a lot of the projects in my nonfiction journalism class. 183 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:38,800 So I will put a link to where you can find Michael's book in the show notes and then 184 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:47,840 any other links related to your course or your author kind of help series that you have 185 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:48,840 coming up. 186 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:52,760 I'll put links to where you can find Michael and all of those things in the show notes 187 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:56,720 for you guys because he just has a wealth of knowledge. 188 00:12:56,720 --> 00:13:02,200 And like I said, this is probably one of the biggest topics now in education. 189 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:07,480 We just had a conversation about it at lunch today as English teachers. 190 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:12,040 And it was interesting because the teacher who was speaking at lunch today said, you 191 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:14,560 know, I had five kids that I needed to speak to. 192 00:13:14,560 --> 00:13:16,600 I basically said, I know what you did. 193 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:18,040 I can prove what you did. 194 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:20,040 Here's what you did. 195 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:23,920 If you don't want this to go any further, we're going to leave it here. 196 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:25,240 And they were all like, yes, I did it. 197 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:27,240 I'm sorry. 198 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:31,880 And that's an AP writing class. 199 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:33,480 It's hard. 200 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:38,400 But it's something again that 26, 29 years ago we were not facing. 201 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:44,920 And so to try to find creative ways to do meaningful work with kids where this doesn't 202 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:46,960 become a factor is so important. 203 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:51,000 So I appreciate that work so much. 204 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:57,000 So getting into kind of what we talk about here at Life's Next Lesson Plan, we talk a 205 00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:59,600 lot about school. 206 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:07,080 And do you have for us today, I know you have so many amazing experiences as an educator, 207 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:12,200 but sort of a highlighter story that stands out to you that you can share with us from 208 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:13,680 your 26 years? 209 00:14:13,680 --> 00:14:14,680 Oh man. 210 00:14:14,680 --> 00:14:17,120 There's like a thousand stories. 211 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:19,760 I don't know how to narrow it down. 212 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:21,560 You know, there's so many. 213 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:27,600 I remember one time, this is a few years ago now, I was at the gym working out and I heard 214 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:28,600 Ms. Hernandez. 215 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:29,600 And I'm like, what? 216 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:34,400 I look around and this guy comes up to me and he's like, hey, it's me, Nick. 217 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:37,680 And I'm like, you, Nick. 218 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:38,680 And I remember it. 219 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:41,200 It took me back to the very first year I was teaching. 220 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:44,640 And there was this punk kid in my class that was always going to be coming with a scouting 221 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:45,640 ball on his face. 222 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:49,360 And he would like, now that the Irmistad had this big media art slap, so there's like 223 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:53,480 all these spaces kids can get into trouble and if they want to. 224 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:57,840 And I'm like, this kid that was just, you know, and I was like still getting my bearings 225 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:01,360 as a teacher, I was struggling to have classroom management and figure out what my curriculum 226 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:04,120 was and manage all the kids and equipment and stuff. 227 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:07,600 And here was this kid who would always come in and cause trouble. 228 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:12,880 And I don't know what ever happened to this kid, but here he is now in the gym. 229 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:15,640 And he's like the manager of this gym. 230 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:19,900 And he's like, hey, you know, I guess I was a real jerk, you know, when I was in your 231 00:15:19,900 --> 00:15:23,840 class, I'm really sorry about that, but I really enjoyed your class. 232 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:24,960 And that was it. 233 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:30,480 And it was like, wow, was that moment that like, you know, here are these kids that 234 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:34,320 are hormonal or who knows what's happening in their lives. 235 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:39,280 And they're, you know, we all react in ways that we don't anticipate or understand because 236 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:40,720 of what's happening in our lives. 237 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:46,080 And it was a great reminder that, you know, in the moment, it's not something that's 238 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:49,880 personal and that the kids will grow and change and evolve. 239 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:57,920 And we're just one of those steps in their life as they grow and mature and process the 240 00:15:57,920 --> 00:15:58,920 world. 241 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:02,920 And, you know, that was sort of a funny and sort of poignant moment for me too. 242 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:05,520 But that's just a little one. 243 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:10,960 But yeah, I mean, I have so many different moments of, you know, working with kids like 244 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:14,680 day to day or big projects we did when we traveled abroad to make documentaries in places 245 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:19,440 like Cuba and Vietnam and stuff that was great. 246 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:24,200 And maybe one of the most interesting is having my own daughter as my student. 247 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:29,560 So I don't know if I can, if I can tell you the origin story if you. 248 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:30,560 Sure. 249 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:31,560 Sure. 250 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:37,200 So I got divorced when my daughter was about to start eighth grade, which of course, if 251 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:42,080 you're a girl, you probably know this a very difficult time in life. 252 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:47,400 And you know, if you've been divorced, you know all of the issues around kids and what 253 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:49,760 they think of you and all of these emotions. 254 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:51,800 And, you know, it's a really difficult time. 255 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:59,600 And so I was invited to speak at the Journalism Education Association Conference in Seattle. 256 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:01,720 And it was the spring conference. 257 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:03,040 It was the beginning of our spring break. 258 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:04,880 And I'm like, Maya, why don't you come with me? 259 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:06,120 We'll go together. 260 00:17:06,120 --> 00:17:08,320 Father, daughter, we'll come to the conference. 261 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:13,080 You can go to some of the sessions and then we'll have, you know, a long vacation in Seattle 262 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:15,000 and enjoy that. 263 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:19,000 So she came with me to the JEA conference where I've spoken before. 264 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,600 And she sat through a couple of my sessions and the room was packed. 265 00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:25,000 Kids were leaning in about what I had to say. 266 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:26,880 I don't even remember what I was talking about. 267 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:29,560 I'm related to video journalism or something like that. 268 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:33,800 And, you know, if the kids come up and say stuff and they leave the room, clears out. 269 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:36,400 Maya comes up to me and she says, dad, that was really good. 270 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:37,400 You're a really good speaker. 271 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:41,040 She's like, I think I want to take your journals and class next year. 272 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:43,160 And it was just my heart just swelled. 273 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:44,400 You know, it was one of those moments. 274 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:50,960 Not only that, she was into what I was into subject-wise, but that she finally as a child 275 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:53,560 understood what her dad was doing. 276 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:58,120 You know, when he traveled to go speak or when I came home with these issues that I 277 00:17:58,120 --> 00:18:00,080 was wrestling with at school. 278 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:03,960 And so that was a really great bond to have with my daughter and have that connection. 279 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:08,880 And for the next four years, she was in my journalism class and sort of found her passion 280 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:11,840 of, and this is somebody who's not good at school. 281 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:13,200 Like Maya Stroudelblad was school. 282 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:16,160 Turns out later, we found out she has ADHD. 283 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:18,200 We didn't know it. 284 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:22,240 And so she had trouble, you know, focusing and studying and all of these things. 285 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:25,000 But this was something that she could be good at. 286 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:27,960 She could express herself with. 287 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:31,840 And she found success where she couldn't find it in traditional ways of doing that. 288 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:35,440 And I feel like that was an aha moment for me, even though I'd been teaching for like 289 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:38,280 15, 20 years at that point. 290 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:42,320 But, you know, everybody comes in with their thing. 291 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:44,400 What they're good at, what they struggle with. 292 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:47,800 And school does a really good job at saying you're good or you're not good or you're 293 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:53,880 smarter or not smart and dividing people instead of helping them find their strengths and leverage 294 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:56,000 their strengths to express themselves. 295 00:18:56,000 --> 00:19:02,160 And it was also great for me as an educator too, because I could see the other side of 296 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:05,200 things when I was giving assignments and deadlines. 297 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:09,200 What that looked like from the student perspective, because I would see her at our house at a 298 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:12,280 kitchen table doing her homework and like, oh, you're struggling with that? 299 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:13,480 I guess I wasn't clear on that. 300 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:16,600 Or maybe I should think about my deadlines a little bit differently or something like 301 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:17,600 that. 302 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:23,960 That was a really great series of moments, I guess, in my education career. 303 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:25,480 Yeah, I can 100% relate. 304 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:28,760 I have a daughter who's a senior right now. 305 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:33,920 And all the years going through, you know, the college prep experience and everything 306 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:38,400 and you're like, wow, this is different when I see it at home in my own house. 307 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:40,720 I see this happening. 308 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:45,520 But your point about your daughter and just what we've been talking about with your book 309 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:51,920 is like, not everybody is good at taking a test or writing an essay or taking notes. 310 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:57,320 And that's what's so awesome about what we do because I think any kid, again, if you 311 00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:02,760 give them agency and choice, they can find something that they're passionate about. 312 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:07,280 And that just makes a huge difference for motivating them. 313 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:09,920 And it's a different way of learning. 314 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:11,440 So it's so great though. 315 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:18,440 I know I definitely, as my daughter went through each grade of high school, I was like, okay, 316 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:22,600 so maybe that wasn't as important as I thought it was, you know, watching some of the things 317 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:23,600 at home. 318 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:29,440 So, and I also got divorced when she was going into eighth grade, so I can during a pandemic 319 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:33,080 so that I can totally relate to that as well. 320 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:37,960 So you mentioned, and I'm so glad you did because I wanted you to talk just a little 321 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:43,320 bit about the traveling that you do with students making documentaries. 322 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:45,040 That is so amazing. 323 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:51,640 Yeah, you know, I teach at a school that is a pretty privileged neighborhood. 324 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:53,120 It's a suburb of Los Angeles. 325 00:20:53,120 --> 00:20:58,480 It's not a unified and so it's mostly white, pretty wealthy, and people tend to stay in 326 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:02,000 the bubble, both creatively and intellectually. 327 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:07,240 And when people travel, they go to resorts, walled off and gated and you might as well 328 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:09,440 be in the United States, right? 329 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:15,440 And you know, I was noticing with my students an inability to empathize or see other perspectives. 330 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:18,200 And so I tried to figure out like, how can I do this? 331 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:21,320 Like we teach journalism, but still you're kind of limited with like your neighborhood 332 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:22,760 and how far the kids can go. 333 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:29,040 And so a friend was doing these kinds of projects at another school and I connected with the 334 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:33,680 travel agent who organized these trips and I just decided, you know what, this is a great 335 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:39,080 opportunity to get kids literally out of their bubble and to help them see and witness and 336 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:45,120 experience and smell and taste another culture, how other people live in different parts of 337 00:21:45,120 --> 00:21:46,120 the world. 338 00:21:46,120 --> 00:21:52,800 And it particularly chose an agency that traveled to areas of the world where the US has troubled 339 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:54,680 history of foreign policy. 340 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:56,200 I mean, it's pretty much every country, right? 341 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,840 They clearly throw a rock and you did 17 of them. 342 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:06,160 So Latin America, you know, where we meddled in, supported coups in Latin America, went 343 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:07,720 to Guatemala. 344 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:08,720 We went to Cambodia. 345 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:14,640 That was our first trip and that was actually the first trip I ever left the country for. 346 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:20,160 I had never had a passport before I took 16 kids to Cambodia by myself. 347 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:24,200 I met the chaperones in country. 348 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:30,720 We traveled to Cuba, which is incredible and Vietnam and yeah, I mean, it's just sort 349 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:34,400 of, you know, everybody convincing the parents to let the kids go. 350 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:38,760 Like everybody was worried about safety and this is a safe place and I'm like, dude, it's 351 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:39,760 Vietnam. 352 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:40,760 It's a communist country. 353 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:43,880 It's safer than like if we're dying all the time in the United States from gun deaths. 354 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:47,680 Like, really, are we on the same, you know, we were paying attention here, what's going 355 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:48,680 on? 356 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:53,640 And it turns out like we've all these preconceived ideas of what safety is, you know? 357 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:55,480 And, you know, not to fault the parents. 358 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:58,760 I mean, I would be concerned too going to another country. 359 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:02,720 It's further than the other set of towns and a sleepover. 360 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:07,560 But you know, I think that was also part of the education is like extending out to the 361 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:10,560 families that this is possible. 362 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:15,880 And yeah, so what we would do is we would take the kids and we would study about the 363 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:20,040 country, learn about the history, which they aren't taught in social studies, by the way, 364 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:24,200 because, you know, they start teaching history at the beginning of time, which for us is 365 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:27,720 in middle ages, Europe, right? 366 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,160 And then you run out of time before you even get to the Vietnam War. 367 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:31,800 So I had kids that took to Vietnam. 368 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:35,240 There were juniors in high school, which is American history, and they hadn't learned 369 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:37,400 about the Vietnam War because they ran outside. 370 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:39,000 Like, are you kidding me? 371 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:40,000 Right? 372 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,520 So I think I put in the book that we teach history backwards. 373 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:45,360 We should be starting with current events. 374 00:23:45,360 --> 00:23:46,840 And then like, what's happening right now? 375 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,200 What am I witnessing, experiencing, thinking about? 376 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,440 What are people talking about? 377 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:52,720 And then do a deep dive. 378 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:53,720 How do we get here? 379 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:57,920 And then that's the reason for going back and exploring and making the connection of 380 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:02,160 why we should pay attention to the past because it affects us now. 381 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,160 So anyway, we did these amazing trips. 382 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:06,720 The kids would shoot footage, interview people. 383 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:08,920 We had a translator who could speak the language. 384 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:10,680 And it was just incredible. 385 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:14,920 And I feel like anybody who's done a field trip knows that experiential learning is really 386 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:15,920 the only way to teach. 387 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:19,520 I mean, you don't really understand something until you've experienced it. 388 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:25,040 And it's talking to people, sharing a meal with them, the smell, the sound, the taste 389 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:26,040 of a place. 390 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:28,560 You know, you've got to walk into space. 391 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,720 You know, Asia is very different than Europe. 392 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:33,320 And that was huge. 393 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:37,280 Going to Cuba was huge, you know. 394 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:39,000 And it was just transformative. 395 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:44,160 And honestly, some of the best projects ever to come out of my class came from those trips. 396 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:45,160 Yeah. 397 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:46,160 I can imagine. 398 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,160 Yeah, I can imagine. 399 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:49,880 Are those viewable? 400 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:54,400 Is there a link that if I put that, people can see some of the work that your students 401 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:55,400 did? 402 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:56,400 Yeah, absolutely. 403 00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:57,400 Okay. 404 00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:58,400 We'll share that as well. 405 00:24:58,400 --> 00:24:59,400 Yeah, that. 406 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:03,200 I mean, again, these are all ideal experiences, right? 407 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:09,000 That you can create smaller versions of if, you know, not everybody can take students 408 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:10,680 to these places. 409 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:15,760 That's what your book kind of does too, is show how you can infuse aspects of what you 410 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:17,920 did there. 411 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:22,440 That's so amazing. 412 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:27,080 To those of you who have followed me for a while, you know that I value mental and physical 413 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:28,080 wellness. 414 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:33,520 Personally, I've worked with a few different coaches over the years and even been one myself. 415 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:37,880 If you are looking for education and support in your own wellness journey, I would love 416 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:42,400 to invite you to the wellness community I am currently in that keeps me accountable daily 417 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,400 with my nutrition and movement. 418 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:51,040 If you are a Facebook user, you can search for our free group called TeamMG. 419 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:55,720 This group is led by my coach, Megan Grimord, who is a certified trainer and nutrition 420 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:56,920 coach. 421 00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:01,200 She offers lots of education and support for your wellness journey. 422 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:05,720 If you want to get to know coach Megan more, you can follow her on Instagram at all lower 423 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:15,720 case Megan M E G A N underscore Grimord G R I M O R D or even listen to her on episode 424 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,200 10 of the podcast. 425 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:21,280 She has also created a discount code for my listeners. 426 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:31,560 Just go to her website www.team-mg.com and enter code less than plan 10 to get $10 off 427 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:35,680 any of her premium coaching packages for the first month. 428 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:41,160 Coach Megan is a busy mom like me who works full time, so I appreciate her practicality 429 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:51,080 mixed with some tough love to keep me going. 430 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:56,560 Obviously in the last few years especially, but I mean if I just think about even since 431 00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:02,840 I've met you, the things that you have been doing seems like like what goals are left, 432 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:09,160 I'm sure knowing you, you have other things that you aspire to be doing or maybe just 433 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:12,200 fine tuning things that you have done in the past. 434 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:16,960 So what kinds of things are on the Michael Hernandez goal list? 435 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:21,320 Oh my God, you challenged me with a really hard question. 436 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,080 You know, it's funny, like I've done a lot of things. 437 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:29,560 I've been very fortunate to have met some really great people and have gone, you know, 438 00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:33,680 and joining some organizations that inspired my practice. 439 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:38,640 I met some of my best friends through these work organizations. 440 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:44,200 I feel like I kind of maybe suggest my personality, but I feel like I wander through life. 441 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:48,320 I don't like set up a plan and go like in five years I'm going to do this and in 10 442 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:53,760 years I'm going to do that because you know the world changes so rapidly and I don't know. 443 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:58,080 I'm still actually trying to figure out what I want to do when I grow up, honestly. 444 00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:03,080 And maybe it's, I don't know if that's good or bad, but I kind of operate a lot on intuition. 445 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:08,400 And you know, I know that, you know, I got started teaching because I enjoyed it and 446 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:12,360 it's kind of in my blood because my family, all of my family are educators, both my parents, 447 00:28:12,360 --> 00:28:15,880 two aunts and an uncle or teachers, but I really enjoy it. 448 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:19,480 And then I started doing this and then I was curious about something so I traded and I 449 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:21,880 did that and then I'm like, oh, these people are doing this. 450 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:23,080 I'm going to go talk to them. 451 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:29,080 So like I go work, J-E-A, I went to my very first J-E-A conference and I met a conference 452 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:33,760 buddy at the Newbies meeting and she was an Apple, the Singlish Educator and taught me 453 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:34,760 about that. 454 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:38,800 And so then I joined A-D-E and became, met all these folks that work at Apple and it 455 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:40,480 just led from one thing to the next. 456 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:47,040 And I feel like maybe it's good to have some set of goals as far as maybe what kind of 457 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:52,200 life you want to live, what kind of relationships you want to have. 458 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,400 For me at work, I don't know. 459 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,640 I just feel like I'm just curious about a lot of different things. 460 00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:05,520 And so I let that curiosity carry me into places that I might not have expected or known exist. 461 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:06,720 And the same thing with skills. 462 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:12,920 Like I do things that seem random, like hiking and backpacking or running or taking poetry 463 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:13,920 workshops. 464 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:17,880 I'm not a good poet, but the skills that I learned helped me be a better writer in my 465 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:19,040 other work. 466 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:24,880 And so I feel like there's always something that you can explore and embrace that's enjoyable, 467 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:29,200 fun and not directly related to work, but does help you become who you are. 468 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:30,200 I don't know. 469 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,760 I'm not trying to avoid your question. 470 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:34,280 No, I like that. 471 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:39,960 That is such for a type A person like me who is like, I need to know what I'm going to 472 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:43,440 be doing 10 years from now and here's my plan to get there. 473 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:49,400 It's such a good reminder that like you said, it could all change tomorrow. 474 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:53,120 And so what good is that plan anyway? 475 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:58,880 Now if you know, like here are some of the experiences I would like to have or like you 476 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:03,840 said, you meet someone unexpectedly, you couldn't have planned for that to happen anyway. 477 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:09,920 So it's so good for someone like me who likes to think 10 years ahead and have a plan to 478 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:14,800 hear that that some of the best things happen that they're not even planned, right? 479 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:15,800 Mm-hmm, right. 480 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:17,800 Yeah, so no, that's actually perfect. 481 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:22,120 Yeah, and you know, like the pandemic happened and that's where everybody off for a few 482 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:23,720 years, nobody planned that. 483 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:30,960 But if you have, you know, a resilient, flexible mindset, then you're able to handle those 484 00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:31,960 kinds of things. 485 00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:37,480 And I feel like that's the skill in the mindset that the only skill in mindset that I need 486 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:38,480 to teach my students. 487 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:39,480 Yeah. 488 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:40,480 It's really flexible. 489 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:41,880 It's such a good point. 490 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:47,120 Look at what has changed in our world since the pandemic that we couldn't have predicted. 491 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:51,560 Artificial intelligence, who knew like two years ago, this would be a thing, you know, 492 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:52,560 and here we are. 493 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:56,000 I mean, somebody probably did because they need to be a patron of those things. 494 00:30:56,000 --> 00:31:01,040 But I think being flexible, but as far as what's next for me, I don't know, I'm doing 495 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:05,480 some consulting work, working with schools to help them, you know, think about authentic 496 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:10,160 learning and uncheatable assessments, helping them integrate technology to use it in ways 497 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:15,400 that are productive and make sense for their students and make teaching and learning enjoyable 498 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:18,520 and meaningful and efficient. 499 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:19,880 Is there another book on the horizon? 500 00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:20,880 I don't know. 501 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:24,600 I have an idea for a non-education related idea. 502 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:26,880 Maybe that's an essay or something else. 503 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:27,880 I don't know. 504 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:32,560 But yeah, and just helping folks like you mentioned at the top of the story, like, I'm 505 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:35,480 going to have a workshop on how to become an author. 506 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:39,520 So a lot of people are asking me, how did you write your book and what was that like? 507 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:42,680 And so I'm going to do some workshops around that. 508 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:46,960 And again, this is something like, because I had the experience writing the book, now 509 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:52,080 I feel I have something I can contribute to the conversation around the topic and just 510 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:54,280 going to let me go that direction. 511 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:58,840 So I guess I'm still connected to education because I love learning and I'm curious about 512 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:00,600 the world. 513 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:05,720 And I feel like it should be fun and enjoyable and maybe I can contribute and help people 514 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:06,720 out in some way. 515 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:07,720 Yeah. 516 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:11,440 No, that's perfect message that I needed to hear today. 517 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:13,280 So thank you for that. 518 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:14,280 Okay. 519 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:19,160 So I know you have so many things to teach, but we have to boil it down to one lesson. 520 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:25,000 So I'm so excited for what you have brought for the listeners today. 521 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:29,080 So let's just jump right in to what you're going to teach us in your lesson today. 522 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:30,080 Sure. 523 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:34,280 So today is a lesson that comes from my book that I use myself all the time. 524 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:39,240 In fact, I was just using it today with my photography students introducing the photojournalism 525 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:40,480 unit. 526 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:43,680 And this project is called the empathy interview. 527 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:50,160 And an empathy interview is used by scientists, social scientists, marketing experts, business 528 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:53,200 people, as well as journalists and everything. 529 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:58,540 And basically it's using the inquiry mindset to do qualitative research. 530 00:32:58,540 --> 00:33:02,440 So this idea of you don't know what you don't know. 531 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:07,160 And when we ask students or if you're a scientist doing research or you're starting up a business 532 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:11,720 and you're trying to find market or how to like market your products to the people, you 533 00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:14,400 need to find out how they feel about it and what's on their mind. 534 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:15,400 What are they worried about? 535 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:16,400 What are they thinking about? 536 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:20,640 What are their hopes, dreams, goals, fears? 537 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:25,480 And that helps guide your research as you go forward doing more primary source research. 538 00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:28,360 And it helps you make a better end product. 539 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:32,680 So this is especially useful if we're doing authentic projects, whether that's a podcast 540 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:34,040 like this one. 541 00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:37,480 We definitely talked before this conversation happened. 542 00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:41,040 So that's an empathy interview. 543 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,760 Scientists need to know what aspect of a topic they're going to like spend their energy 544 00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:47,560 on researching and so forth. 545 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:52,760 And so the empathy interview is an easy way that any grade level, any subject area can 546 00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:53,760 do this. 547 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:59,640 The empathy interview is finding a stakeholder, somebody who has something to do with this 548 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:05,720 topic or has been affected by this topic or is responsible for this topic. 549 00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,240 And you talked about it. 550 00:34:08,240 --> 00:34:10,880 And so you would first of all do a little bit of background research. 551 00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:12,560 Who is this person? 552 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:15,280 How do I know this person is a stakeholder and in what way? 553 00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:20,120 And then you go to them and you have sort of a semi-structured conversation asking them 554 00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:22,480 about the relation to this topic. 555 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:23,920 Tell me stories about this. 556 00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:24,920 Tell me what you're thinking. 557 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:26,440 Tell me why you made these decisions. 558 00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:28,280 What are you wondering about? 559 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:29,280 Things like that. 560 00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:30,720 In the book we talk about how to write good questions. 561 00:34:30,720 --> 00:34:33,800 As a journalist in the U.S. you know he's been a lot of time. 562 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,840 How do we craft good questions? 563 00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,400 And that can make all the difference when you're doing polls. 564 00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:42,800 People are asking you what you want to buy. 565 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:43,800 Your doctor is asking you. 566 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:48,520 They're going to ask the right questions to get the data out of you. 567 00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:52,080 And so once the kids have these conversations, which is the whole lesson in itself. 568 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:56,520 How do I talk to humans that's not texting on a screen? 569 00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:58,120 This is unusual for kids. 570 00:34:58,120 --> 00:34:59,520 How do I compose an email? 571 00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:04,840 This is the first time students have ever been asked to write an email outside of the 572 00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:06,920 school district if it's an expert. 573 00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:14,880 You know, sports, an athlete or somebody who's on the city council in your town. 574 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:17,080 An author of a book. 575 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:19,000 An artist. 576 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,320 Anybody like that. 577 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:24,760 And so that's all these skills that are going around this. 578 00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:28,120 They have that interview whether that's on Zoom or whether that's in person. 579 00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:29,120 It's important to do that. 580 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:31,800 Not just to texting or email exchange. 581 00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,760 And then they get all these responses back and maybe they've recorded it. 582 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:38,840 And we ask them to sift through all of these responses and call out things that surprise 583 00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:41,640 them or that they didn't know about before. 584 00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:43,240 Or what are they wondering about now? 585 00:35:43,240 --> 00:35:45,200 Do you have other questions for this person? 586 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:48,200 Follow-up questions that you might want to ask them again. 587 00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:54,320 And then how that can help guide their research for the rest of the story and rest of the project. 588 00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:55,640 This is a really great project. 589 00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:56,640 And that's it, right? 590 00:35:56,640 --> 00:36:01,960 So it's basically how do I know where to send my research and what I should focus on. 591 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:03,760 And it does several things. 592 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:08,800 It helps kids get out of their head and that we need to talk to other people because they 593 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:10,880 have valuable perspectives. 594 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:18,000 It builds interpersonal skills, scheduling and technical skills. 595 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:23,960 It just helps them have empathy for other people and ideas and help guide their research. 596 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:29,560 And because I think so much in school is about you as a lone, isolated person having to 597 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:31,960 come up with the right answer. 598 00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:32,960 Like that. 599 00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:33,960 Like instantly. 600 00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:35,960 And if you don't, you're not intelligent. 601 00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:37,240 But that's not how the world works. 602 00:36:37,240 --> 00:36:42,320 And so we really want to really facilitate these primary source research skills. 603 00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:45,640 That's what this is, primary source research. 604 00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:47,760 And that's the foundation for bigger projects. 605 00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:51,280 So you know, as a journalism teacher, that's the starting point. 606 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:53,160 Like, do we even have a story? 607 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:54,880 Or which direction should we take the story? 608 00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:58,240 We can, you know, story the fires, for example, in Los Angeles. 609 00:36:58,240 --> 00:37:03,080 We could have a million different stories about climate change or all the chemicals that 610 00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:04,240 were in houses that burned up. 611 00:37:04,240 --> 00:37:06,200 And is there a toxic issue here? 612 00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:07,680 What about the housing problem? 613 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:10,760 Because now 200,000 people need housing. 614 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:12,520 We already had a housing crisis. 615 00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:15,480 You know, so it can go in a bunch of different directions, but the kids don't know because 616 00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:16,680 they don't have that experience. 617 00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:20,360 And so talking to people unlocks those possibilities. 618 00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:21,360 So it's really great. 619 00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:24,880 And so even like kindergartners can ask questions, they're the most curious at all, right? 620 00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:29,640 They haven't been taught that they shouldn't ask questions. 621 00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:36,080 And so, you know, again, it helps facilitate and encourage this idea of inquiry is important 622 00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:39,800 and the foundation of how we make a decision in our lives. 623 00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:41,400 So anyway, that's my project. 624 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:42,400 That's my assignment. 625 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,080 Yeah, I love that. 626 00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:50,400 Just what you were saying about this law, well, first of all, them emailing a professional 627 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,520 is such an important life skill. 628 00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:59,360 And to capitalize letters when you're emailing someone, it's not a text, right? 629 00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:06,160 And the idea of this, you know, someone that they don't know and so how you conduct yourself 630 00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:11,840 and again, not just hiding behind a screen and learning about someone's story and bringing 631 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:12,840 that to life. 632 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:15,280 Yeah, that's so awesome. 633 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:22,160 Have you, when you were speaking, it reminded me of one of my favorite books, Have You Read 634 00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:24,240 the Book, A Curious Mind? 635 00:38:24,240 --> 00:38:31,080 It's actually co-written by Brian Grazer, who's a film producer and a journalist, I 636 00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:34,280 think wrote it for him, Charles Fishman. 637 00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:38,200 But it's this idea of Brian Grazer as a film producer. 638 00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:45,320 He had a list of names of people that he wanted to have what he calls a curiosity conversation 639 00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:46,560 with. 640 00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:52,480 And he would either call them into his office in California or he would, you know, do a 641 00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:54,720 Zoom or a phone call. 642 00:38:54,720 --> 00:39:00,960 And I mean, we're talking about Michael Jackson, Steve Jobs, Oprah. 643 00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:07,520 But a lot of his movies, like A Beautiful Mind and Apollo 13, came from ideas that were 644 00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:10,600 filtered through these curiosity conversations. 645 00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:12,120 Have you heard of that book? 646 00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:13,120 Yeah, I have. 647 00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:15,000 I've read it, but I know. 648 00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:16,000 Okay. 649 00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:19,920 I actually did my last solo episode on it. 650 00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:25,240 And the episode was about inquiry and some training that I had had as a teacher through 651 00:39:25,240 --> 00:39:29,400 the college board on inquiry-based learning. 652 00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:37,200 So I'm going to send you a copy of that book as a thank you for being on here today because 653 00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:41,640 it would be great for students too, just to talk about like what you were even saying 654 00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:46,320 before, look what came out of this conversation that I could have never predicted because 655 00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:50,360 I hadn't had the conversation and I hadn't heard this person's story. 656 00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:53,400 And as a result, I just got an idea for a movie, right? 657 00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:54,400 Right. 658 00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:55,640 So cool. 659 00:39:55,640 --> 00:40:03,040 So before we let you leave today, do you have any kind of action steps that the listeners 660 00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:09,600 could take if they want to maybe dabble more in authentic assessment or, you know, not 661 00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:17,080 demonizing AI or phones because I know you're really good at making optimistic statements 662 00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:18,080 about that. 663 00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:19,080 Yeah. 664 00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:23,080 I mean, that's a whole other set of series of podcasts episodes. 665 00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:28,480 But yeah, I mean, I feel like, you know, there's some research that keeps coming out 666 00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:35,240 around the, you know, the moral panic around cell phones and social media and it's baseless. 667 00:40:35,240 --> 00:40:38,920 The research is really flimsy and there's no support for that. 668 00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:44,240 But I'm thinking about the world around us and instead of looking for easy answers to 669 00:40:44,240 --> 00:40:48,600 solve our issues where we don't have to put any work or effort into it or any investment 670 00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:54,080 of time and money, it's easy for us to want to like just find scapegoats. 671 00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:59,200 That's been historically, you know, in education and outside of education the case because people 672 00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:03,080 are just overwhelmed, you know, we have a lot on our plates and it's hard to have to 673 00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:09,720 do ask difficult questions and put in the effort to do it right. 674 00:41:09,720 --> 00:41:14,000 And so, you know, we've had this conversation on edtech since Google came out and kids could 675 00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:19,320 Google and find answers on the internet, you know, and it's nothing new. 676 00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:23,360 Calculators came out and math teachers were freaking out that kids would not learn math 677 00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:24,600 because there was a calculator. 678 00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:28,840 Well, no, you can calculate our formulas or built into the textbook and you can use it 679 00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:31,040 when you take the SAT. 680 00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:36,360 What happened turns out that we learned how to use the tool productively to accelerate 681 00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:41,640 the learning process and not, you know, just demonize it, you know. 682 00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:47,840 And I think the mindset behind all of this in the book too is like this sort of myth 683 00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:54,120 that we have around education that learning has to be painful and unenjoyable. 684 00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:59,400 And I think that's wrong, you know, just because something is joyful and has purpose 685 00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:02,520 doesn't mean it lacks academic rigor. 686 00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:08,040 And you and I know as journalism teachers, the hardest class you could take is journalism, 687 00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:11,240 not physics and not AP chemistry. 688 00:42:11,240 --> 00:42:12,760 Journalism is the hardest. 689 00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:17,600 And but it's also the most rewarding and joyful because there's a point to it and you can 690 00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:19,360 help other people. 691 00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:23,680 And so I think all of us need to kind of move past this mindset. 692 00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:27,640 And I had it too when I started for the first several years as a teacher that in order to 693 00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:33,040 be serious as an educator or as a student, you have to look like grit, you've got to 694 00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:37,160 grind, you've got to like do something that's painful just because and and I'm not saying 695 00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:40,280 by any means that we should make excuses for kids. 696 00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:43,160 And I think we have another conversation around on that. 697 00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:45,160 We don't want to make things easy. 698 00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:50,280 But think about when you play a sport in a high level or learn to play an instrument, 699 00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:55,280 for example, it takes a lot of work, a lot of practice, literal blood, sweat and tears, 700 00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:56,280 right? 701 00:42:56,280 --> 00:43:00,320 You've got analysis on your fingers from the fretboard and you're like sitting at that 702 00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:05,920 keyboard or that place for a long time, you're in the gym lifting weights and doing conditioning. 703 00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:07,320 Why? 704 00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:08,480 Because you love it. 705 00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:10,960 It brings you joy and satisfaction. 706 00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:12,800 And that's what the book is about. 707 00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:18,480 And that's how we can solve the challenge of low student engagement and chronic absenteeism 708 00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:25,600 is can we, yes, still expect kids to have rigorous experiences and hold them accountable. 709 00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:29,000 But at the same time create experiences that are joyful and have purpose. 710 00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:30,000 The answer is yes. 711 00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:32,120 But we just got to figure out how to do that. 712 00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:33,520 And that's the multiple because how? 713 00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:35,000 Yeah, that's so awesome. 714 00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:39,640 Well, I mean, like you said, we could have 18 different conversations stemming from some 715 00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:42,320 of the topics that you mentioned today. 716 00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:44,040 And I just so appreciate your time. 717 00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:45,680 I know how busy you are. 718 00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:50,520 And I just know that this message, all the messages that you shared today are so important 719 00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:53,120 to educators and just to society in general. 720 00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:56,800 So I want to thank you again for taking the time to join us today. 721 00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:59,000 Wow, thank you, I really appreciate it. 722 00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:00,000 It was fun. 723 00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:10,320 I'm so glad I could introduce you to Michael today and his innovative and open-minded perspectives. 724 00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:15,520 He definitely stays on the cutting edge in education and I admire his ability to tap 725 00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:19,680 into authentic and meaningful experiences for students. 726 00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:22,640 I just don't know when he sleeps. 727 00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:27,420 Please check out all his amazing work and opportunities for your own learning in the 728 00:44:27,420 --> 00:44:30,040 show notes. 729 00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:34,280 Until next time, please be sure to follow us at Life's Next Lesson Plan on Instagram, 730 00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:38,560 Facebook and YouTube, as well as on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. 731 00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:42,960 If you know someone you think might be a great guest for the pod or you have a topic you'd 732 00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:50,640 like to know more about, you can share your ideas with us on our website at life'snextlessonplan.com. 733 00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:57,560 While you're there, be sure to peruse all of the free resources from past episodes. 734 00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:23,920 We'll see you next time.