On today's episode of Life's Next Lesson Plan podcast, I'm joined by Kelly Allen,
a former student of mine who is a writer and editor based in New York City.
After graduating high school in 2015, Kelly pursued a professional journalism degree
at the University of Minnesota Twin Cities.
Now with six years of post-graduate experience in the media industry, including at House
Beautiful, Delish Magazine, and Cosmopolitan, she covers design, culture, and travel, and
is here to share her story as well as the hottest tips for networking your way to your
dream job.
Thank you for joining me for another episode.
The goal of my work with Life's Next Lesson Plan podcast, as well as my Live and Learn
Patreon, is to create a connection where we are all teachers.
We all have lessons and stories to share that can help others.
I am so fortunate to be able to extend the four walls of my previous classroom to an
unlimited audience, where we can all learn from each other.
And my guests are some of the most inspirational people with the best stories and lessons I
know, which is why I want to share them with you.
Their words are something everyone should hear.
It is my hope that you are able to take away something from each episode to apply to your
own life, whether that be a career search, a path to a more fulfilling life, or new ideas
on current topics.
Today's guest is a former journalism student of mine who has been to some of the coolest
places in pop culture, and she's here to share all her tips and tricks with us.
When I explain her job to people and show them her work, their response is always the
same.
That is the coolest job ever, and how did she get that job?
And I will be sure to have a link to her work in the show notes so you can see exactly why
that is.
With that, I will let Kelly introduce herself and explain all about her work today.
Hi, yes.
So we met in publications class at Homestead High School in Wisconsin.
Then after high school, I went on to the University of Minnesota Twin Cities to study journalism.
Then I moved to New York, and now I work as a writer in New York City.
Yeah, I'm personally, I told Kelly, obviously, I've been following her work and everything,
but there's like so much in between how you go from Macquan, Wisconsin to New York, and
so I'm so excited to have her explain that journey today.
But before we get into that, I'm going to have Kelly either share a funny memory from
our high school days or a memorable moment from high school because of course that's
where we met.
Yes, so I don't remember a whole lot from high school now.
My memory is so terrible these days, but I did work on the yearbook, so I remember enjoying
doing that.
We also went to like a national high school journalism convention in Washington, D.C.
in 2014, and I remember enjoying that.
I don't remember a lot about these things.
Yeah, that, I think that trip, because I mean I have done like eight or ten of them at this
point, but I think that was our biggest crew that we had.
It was like 13, it was like 12 girls and one boy.
And my sister met us in D.C. to help me out, to help me wrangle everybody.
So that was our biggest group, but also to me that was like one of our most meaningful
trips because I think our editor of the new, we had a newspaper at the time.
I think it was Katie Bandersky, and I think I, she and some other people really wanted
to change to a news magazine.
And I said, if we win a pacemaker with the newspaper, meaning the biggest award that
you can win at these journalism conventions, I'll let you switch to a magazine.
And on that trip, we won the pacemaker.
Haven't since, hadn't before.
But that was like a super exciting trip, I think.
I think also one or two people had to leave to go home because they weren't feeling well,
which had never happened on one of these trips before.
So, but it was definitely a memorable trip and just what a cool place to have a journalism
convention in Washington, D.C.
So yeah, I remember that trip as well.
So going back to your high school days, obviously a lot goes into where you want to go to school,
what you think you want to pursue.
So can you talk us through your decision making and kind of your path, high school, and then
beyond to college?
Yes, so I was lucky enough to head into college knowing that I wanted to be in journalism
and specifically to work for a magazine in New York one day.
It's funny looking back, I never even considered going to college in New York.
I was just like, I'll go to college, get the kind of like, I wanted that big 10 football
type experience because that's kind of what Homestead was like.
So I was like, I'll go to college and then I'll just go to New York after.
And I was like, I feel like it worked out.
So I was like, I don't know how common that is because again, I went to college and became
a teacher so I don't really know how easy that is to just say, I want to work in New
York and then have it happen.
So you're going to talk us through that a little bit today.
And then once you got to college, what are some things that you did there to make this
dream come true?
Well, I'll also note to one thing before going into that, that actually I applied to Minnesota
and then once I got in, I didn't apply anywhere else.
So I technically only applied there and then I was like, okay, I'm going.
Oh, wow.
Okay, brave.
I was pretty sure about it.
I liked that like city and like college feel.
Okay, but yes, once I was in college, I like knowing what I wanted to do, I basically,
so I was specifically obsessed with Cosmo, so I started following some of their editors
on Instagram and this was kind of like the heyday, I feel like, of the magazine industry
where like being an editor in New York was very much the vibe.
I don't know from my perspective.
So they're very, you know, active and they still are too.
I mean, I guess I am too, active on Instagram.
I feel like it was just like a little bit different.
So sort of following them, keeping up with their work, I was collecting like any advice
that I could about how to get into the industry, whether it was like directly from people or
just kind of like aggregating any little pieces of information that I could find from books
or like things I've said that I've seen online.
And then in college, I majored in professional journalism, I ended up doing three magazine
internships in college and I was the president of the university's magazine club.
So all of that sort of helped me toward my goal of working for a magazine one day and
I also attended a few networking events throughout college.
Like when I studied abroad in London, I went to a networking event that was hosted by Cosmo
UK and that was really interesting to go to.
A wild experience because I just like showed up alone.
I got on a ticket and I was like there, but it was great.
Oh my gosh.
So are these things at Minnesota?
Because if you said you did magazine internships and I got to hear about like the London, like
how does the college set that up for you?
So well for the magazine internships, those were all in Minnesota.
Those I basically went off and applied to my own, I believe.
I don't really think I had assistance with that necessarily.
So those were just in the city, like downtown Minneapolis.
I did those during the summer.
One of them was six months long.
So I did like the summer and then fall semester.
And then for the London part, studying abroad was through my school, but the internship
that I did there was not like an editorial internship.
It was like a social media internship for a fashion label.
So when you were over there, was this part of this Cosmo networking event for the social
media internship or was it you just saw it and you went?
It was literally just something I saw it out on my own and I was like, I want to go to
this.
So I went.
Oh, that's okay.
So there's a lesson in just like if you see something and you think it will benefit you,
just go.
Even if you have to go alone.
Yeah.
I didn't even know.
I probably, I took notes while I was there.
So I'm sure there's some advice where I learned from being there, but I don't know if I could
necessarily pinpoint anything I got out of it.
I just thought it was an amazing experience and I don't know, got me out of my comfort
zone, I guess.
And did you have the right outfit picked and packed to go to this event?
I know you're very aesthetic.
I think so.
I mean, I went to, at the time, there was like a London Fashion Week festival that I went
to where I got like some pants.
So I wore those pants.
I'm pretty sure.
I love it.
I'm like, I know she like perfectly curated an outfit for this event that she didn't even
know she was going to when she went there.
Okay.
So then after your internships, you're getting ready for graduation.
So walk us through that part.
Yes.
So during like my last semester, I graduated a semester early.
So this is like in the fall.
I was applying to fellowships and editorial assistants jobs and I was, I came in like
pretty close getting one fellowship that would have been perfect, but then they ended
up like not even going through with having that position in the first place.
They're like, we'd give it to you if it was still existed, but it doesn't anymore.
Like, okay, cool.
Oh no.
So that kind of, and then for two months after graduation, I was getting a bunch of
interviews, making it to like the third round.
So this was pre COVID.
So Zoom interviews weren't really a thing.
So I was basically like all my resume, I used using my friend who lives in New Jersey's
address pretending that I had already lived here because people at the time, I wanted
to hire people who are already in New York.
It's just easier to like hire people who are already here, I guess.
I don't know if I was really fooling anyone, but I was flying in and got to a point where
I was just like, I need to move here and to finish this out.
It seems promising.
I just need to like get there and like get something.
So actually the day I moved here, I had, I literally had an inter, like a final round
interview that morning, the morning that I flew here.
I like dropped my stuff off at my apartment in Brooklyn and came into the city and I didn't
get that job, but it was still like an interview process, I think.
So I think all the experience that you can get is great, right?
And so how long after you moved to New York, did it take to land you your first job in
New York?
It took two months, which felt like the longest two months of my life.
They were like very hard because I also didn't know anyone in New York.
So I literally moved here just not knowing anyone.
So not having any friends, not having a job, it was all kind of piling up and just like
getting stressful.
Yeah, it took two months and I didn't even get a job in editorial.
So I got my foot in the door at Hearst.
So I got a job in Cosmos fashion closet and that's where I wanted to be anyway, just not
in the exact position.
And eventually I did that, end up like writing for Cosmo and staying at Hearst.
So my gosh, you say it so calmly.
I think I would.
Yeah.
Wow.
It's just so I want to do this and then you keep plugging away and eventually, you know,
little steps at a time, you kind of get there.
And so is that where you've been?
No, you have, you've changed jobs since then.
So yes, I've had a few roles at Hearst, but my entire professional career in New York
has been at Hearst so far.
Okay, awesome.
So what are some highlights either from your college days or probably more recently your
career?
Like obviously this is what you wanted to do and you're living an amazing life or at
least that's what it looks like from your portfolio and your Instagram, which I will
share down below.
So tell us some of the highlights for you.
There are so many highlights honestly, as far as just like the life, so I don't know
what things that I get to do.
I would say right now I really love interviewing production designers and set decorators who
have worked on like big movies and TV shows and seeing so many screenings of these productions
before they come out.
I'm also good to be a part of the writer's guild of America East because I'm part of
the Hearst Union.
So like even if I wasn't covering those topics, I would still get access to screeners through
that and I do like being part of that like community because it's also made up of, I
mean mainly made up of like screenwriters and all that.
So that's been really cool.
Another highlight is definitely traveling.
I've stayed in some absolutely insane hotels that I would like never stay in otherwise
and I've been to something really cool events.
I spent Cicero de Mayo once at Marvis Stewards Bedford estate where I got picked up in a
car from my apartment in Driven, went to her house and it was wild.
Oh my gosh.
Dogs.
Did you meet her?
At the backyard.
Yes, yeah.
She's very lovely.
I've actually interviewed her a few times too now.
You know you're the second person and I have only your like you're my first handful of
guests that I've interviewed are the second person who's met Martha Stewart now.
Oh my gosh.
My first guest, Mr. Engel, who you probably remember from high school.
Oh my gosh.
He was, I want to say he was in Italy and the tour guide asked him like we have three Americans,
could they join your group?
Is that okay?
And he's like sure, sure.
And he turns around and says Martha Stewart.
So what the heck?
Why is everybody meeting Martha Stewart?
Was this recently?
Like over Thanksgiving?
I know she was like no, this was, I don't think it was that recent.
But it's just so funny how coincidental that you got both of them at her.
Yeah, I guess so.
I know some of my favorites are at least my daughter.
When I show her these headlines that you get to do or the students in high school, I know
a favorite of theirs is you got to tour the summer I turned pretty house, correct?
I never have toured it, but I did write about it.
You wrote about it?
Okay.
A house and the sets that were created for that.
So how does that work when you do, I know you wrote something about Euphoria, that's
a big favorite of theirs too.
So when you are going to these hotels or you're actually going to the site that you're writing
about that they just fly you there for so many days and you take notes and pictures,
how does that work?
Yeah, with hotels specifically, usually the hotel is like hosting a press trip and they'll
cover like the flights, the stay obviously and everything.
And then there's usually no expense for hospital or like whatever magazine you're working for.
Even if you're a freelancer, they'll usually cover everything and then you'll just pitch
your stories out to however.
Wow.
So these assignments that you get, I have so many questions.
I know how it works in the pubs room, but these assignments that you get, are you pitching
them or are they coming to you?
Do you know where you're going to be going?
How does that work?
I would say it's like a very good mix of it all.
Sometimes I'm pitching them, sometimes I'm asked to go on them.
When I went to Italy, that was like a really special case where it was like we sort of
worked with a luxury travel PR based in Italy to design our own press trip with House Beautiful
and Delish.
So it was very small.
It was just two people from House Beautiful, two people from Delish and we kind of chose
the locations that you wanted to go to and then they set up, set us up to the hotels and
everything.
So that was like a special case.
Usually I'll just get like invites in my email all day and like, hey, we're hosting a press
trip, like would you be interested in going, I'm covering and then I'll pitch it and then
I'll get approved or not.
Wow.
And I noticed on some of your articles you're using like stock images, but on others it is
your byline under the photo.
So have they trained you for that in your job, the types of images they want you to collect?
There's definitely no training.
I mean, I love photography, so I feel like I do a pretty decent job.
But when I mix like imagery from a hotel and like my own imagery, it's because usually
they get shots that I wouldn't be able to get by myself.
Like I would need a drone or something to get like an entire image of like the property.
So some of them are just better than like what I could do, but we do prefer like original
imagery these days because I think, I think it helps with Google.
So do you have any, I mean, I know the way back in high school what, you know, the photo
composition techniques that I teach there, but how have you learned, did you learn that
in college how to take good images or you just have an eye for it?
You were always a good designer.
I mean, I did take a photography class in college.
My minor was, it was called an interdisciplinary design minor, which is basically I designed
my own design minor, so I took classes in photography, fashion, and graphic design.
So I think that that certainly helped me, but I've always been interested in photography
from like, even when I was young, my dad used to take like a lot of photos, had a professional
camera and everything made home movies and stuff.
So I feel like that's kind of where it started and that's like a path.
Yeah, that's so cool.
So on this journey of yours, obviously you're a huge self-starter and you know how to take
advantage of opportunities.
Has there been anybody impactful who has helped you along the way as well?
Yes, I would say I've been lucky enough to work with a few great editors.
I've learned a lot about the design industry and editorial from Hasbeetha Fulls former
digital director, Hadley Keller.
She now works, she only leads editorial at the design leadership network.
So that's like a network of interior designers.
So she's more entrenched in that space.
She started a quarterly there and they go on a lot of like trips that a bunch of interior
designers go on to and I think it's amazing.
She's always traveling.
Okay, yeah.
Say someone, even follow in her footsteps and kind of does she have a great social
media to follow as well?
Oh, absolutely yes.
She's, she always posting and she posts like interiors all the time of the places that
she goes and it's incredible.
So it's Hadley Keller, that's her name.
Do you know her handle by chance?
I think it might just be Hadley Keller.
Okay.
Because now I want to follow it and I'm sure some people listening who are into design
and stuff.
It's just Hadley Keller.
Okay.
Director Corial.
Awesome.
Okay.
Yeah.
It's always fun to see like what other people who have mentored you, like what their work
looks like and things like that.
Awesome.
Okay.
We're going to take a little break before we launch into your lesson and so we will
be right back.
To those of you who have followed me for a while, you know that I value mental and physical
wellness.
Personally, I've worked with a few different coaches over the years and even been one myself.
If you are looking for education and support in your own wellness journey, I would love
to invite you to the wellness community I am currently in that keeps me accountable daily
with my nutrition and movement.
If you are a Facebook user, you can search for our free group called team MG.
This group is led by my coach, Megan Grimord, who is a certified trainer and nutrition coach.
She offers lots of education and support for your wellness journey.
If you want to get to know coach Megan more, you can follow her on Instagram at all lower
case Megan M E G A N underscore Grimord G R I M O R D or even listen to her on episode
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Coach Megan is a busy mom like me who works full time, so I appreciate her practicality
mixed with some tough love to keep me going.
So we are ready for the lesson part of today's podcast and I'm super excited to hear what
Kelly has in store for us because again, like all my former students have way cooler jobs
than I do and the job market has changed so much since I was in it over 30 years ago
and I think all of their advice is so fascinating in today's world.
So Kelly, we are ready for your lesson.
I've learned that networking might not always get your foot in the door, but it will help
repel your career once you're inside.
So when I'm first moved to New York, I was networking.
I was meeting with a few editors at different media companies.
But the job that I eventually got, I don't want to call it luck, but I don't think networking
like networking didn't help me get my foot in the door.
But once I did get my foot in the door, it did.
So when I was working as an assistant in Cosmos fashion closet, that was a temporary gig.
So it was a six month contract position and I was on a photo shoot one day that had Cosmo
editors in the photo shoot.
So I was assisting on that and I took that as an opportunity to reach out to one of them
afterward and be like, hey, would you want to grab coffee?
I'd love to like chat about your job, learn more about what you do.
So I had coffee with one of those girls and she really kind of took a chance on me.
Like a piece of advice that she gave to me was to just reach out to people and see if
they need help on your team or kind of neighboring teams.
And I used that advice directly on her and I emailed her afterward and I was like, hey,
like if you need any help with anything, let me know.
And that's how I got started freelancing for Cosmos Entertainment team, writing SEO stories.
So I honestly don't even know if she had read any of my work prior to like being like, yes,
we can write this story, but I'm very grateful that she allowed me to do that.
And I was able to start writing for them and then I think that helped me get my next job
at Hearst.
So when you started, did you start in contract or short term positions or did you start in
a permanent position right away?
So it's called a permanent answer.
It's technically a contract position, but it's full time.
So like 40 hours a week, every day, whatever.
So it was a contractor, but full time.
I did that for like the first two years I worked at Hearst.
So I was getting paid minimum wage.
I've never heard that term.
I just learned something, permanent answer.
It is very common, especially at my company.
Okay.
Interesting.
I've heard that.
A trap, but it's fine.
Okay.
And then that kind of led you to different position.
Yes.
Okay.
Awesome.
And also the story you just told, I don't know, hopefully this doesn't embarrass you
and we can cut it out if it does.
But in high school, you were quieter, right?
Yeah.
Would you agree?
Okay.
I'm trying to imagine Kelly Allen from high school.
Like I think you're more outgoing when you're comfortable.
Maybe that's what it is or you're so driven.
Obviously, you had like a very specific goal.
I'm trying to imagine you asking this lady out for coffee.
Like was that, were you nervous?
Is that something that you've gotten better at just because you were so driven?
Well, that specifically I emailed her.
Oh, okay.
Okay.
I thought you went up to her like at the shoot.
I am definitely way less shy than I used to be in high school.
I'm still like more reserved, I would say.
I mean, but I'm interviewing people all the time.
So I'm like, I definitely come a decent way.
I suppose, yeah, because even when I say to students on the first day of beginning journalism,
I'm like, this isn't the kind of class where you read a novel and you write an essay for
your teacher.
You have to, in order to even get your assignment done, you have to talk to other people in
the building who you might not know on a deadline.
And if that is not for you, this year I had one girl literally stand up and walk out.
I was like, okay, I'm just saying like this, this is that type of class.
And even when we're a month in, I'll get students who are like, oh, I don't want to talk, I
don't want to talk to somebody.
And I'm like, okay, but this is what the class is.
So it's just funny remembering.
And I think I'm trying to remember what year you started journalism, wasn't it later?
I have some who start freshman year, sophomore year, I want to say for you, it was junior
year.
Oh, oh, was it?
Or maybe it was sophomore year.
I'm definitely not freshman because I think my like English teacher at the time told me
to join you.
Okay.
I don't, I feel like it was sophomore maybe, but.
And you worked your way up to an editor position.
So you were in it for a while.
You were one of those kind of quiet, it's, it's funny.
Like you have the more outgoing leader, right?
Who makes themselves known.
And then you have someone who quietly produces amazing work.
And then I will normally reach out to that type of student because they're quieter.
And that was definitely you.
Yeah, I guess I had some louder editors.
Who will probably show up on this podcast.
I'll say it's possible to get out of it.
Like if you really like the work and just keep doing it.
I mean, I still get nervous before interviews, especially with like production designers.
I recently interviewed like the creator of a TV series on Netflix, which was my first
time interviewing a creator.
So that was like nerve wracking.
I learned from that experience.
Sometimes I can be awkward, but it's like whatever life goes on, but it's for the story.
So the story will be great.
Yeah.
I think in just looking at your work, it's like, it's so cool that you like push through
any nerves and like you just put yourself out there.
So you've shared obviously successful examples of networking that you've had.
Have you had any, I mean, I think everybody has situations where they're like, okay,
that didn't go so well.
Here's what I would do differently.
Not necessarily.
I think the networking that I did before I had a job in New York, they were good meetings.
But like nothing came of them and I think it was really on them to like, I don't know,
get me this random person a job.
But like, so I was like slightly unsuccessful, but not in the sense that like nothing went
wrong.
It was just like nothing came of it.
Okay.
That makes sense.
Sure.
Yeah.
For sure.
Okay.
So for our action steps today or our homework, if people want to apply this to their own
lives, we've created a little kind of step by step sheet depending on where people are
in their journey.
If they want to do like hit the ground running, doing some networking, they're not quite in
a position yet.
We have some steps that they could apply.
And then if they are already in a position and they kind of want to network their way
to a different position, I think you have a lot of great advice for that.
But if they wanted to just tomorrow maybe apply some action steps to their life, what
are some easy kind of next day tips that we could let them leave this episode with?
Well, obvious one would be just like creating or updating your LinkedIn profile.
I think an easy way like signing up for like a networking industry event is an easy way
to get in the space without doing a one-on-one conversation and hoping that someone, like
some people won't respond to you.
And I get that.
I've been on both sides of it.
I think sometimes it's hard to tell to who's serious when they're reaching out.
And sometimes people reach out and it doesn't make any sense.
Like why are you asking me?
Like just because I work at this company doesn't mean what you applied to has anything to do.
Like I wouldn't know anything about it.
So yeah, I think like an industry event or networking event would be an easy way.
Like grab a friend if you don't want to go alone and reach out to people in your existing
network too.
That can help.
I know you mentioned earlier in the episode that because you knew you wanted to work at
Cosmo, you started following some of the editors.
Do you think that that helped at all?
I like to think so because I mean when I got my job at Delish and how it's beautiful as
an assistant, one of the editors who I'd followed for a really long time was like the hiring
for that role.
She was like the first round interview person.
And I like to think that maybe she's recognized me in her comments or wherever.
Maybe she didn't.
But I don't know, I think it just helped even just watching and learning subconsciously
from what they were doing.
Right.
It doesn't hurt.
But by osmosis, as you're saying, you never know how it seeped into your subconscious
and helped you out grow as well.
Yeah.
Okay.
Any other advice?
Following up to something that I recently met with an editor at Cosmo.
And a piece of advice that she gave me was to follow up like every six months to just
check in and be like, hey, I saw what you're working on.
This looks exciting.
Here's what I'm working on.
Help you well.
And have it be something that they don't have to take an action for.
And they can just be like respond and be like, thank you.
Like hope you're great or whatever.
Because so many people get so many emails.
So it's nice.
Just kind of have an email that's not like they don't have to do anything.
Yeah.
And I think it puts your name kind of back on their radar too.
Yeah.
In fact, I'm going to give this advice.
I had some younger journalists where I had someone reach out to me who was a former student,
not even of mine.
She I knew her when I lived in Macquan.
She actually married one of the neighbor boys in my neighborhood, but she was in journalism.
Got with the teacher previous to me and is actually a freelance journalist now.
And she is starting a nonprofit.
I'll have her on in a future episode.
But she reached out because she was creating an event at our school and she wanted to know
if I had any journalists who would be interested in covering the event in different ways.
And three girls were interested in doing that.
And this was an event at the end of December.
And they each had a different role and worked with her who's, you know, she's a professional
journalist and I'll recommend what you're saying to them.
Like they did complete work for her and they followed up, but, you know, down the road
because she's going to be looking for volunteers and beginning journalists.
And I'll remind them to maybe put in their calendars to reach out to her again because
you just never know, right?
Like what they did with her at this event is part of their portfolio and it's resume
building as they told them it's great experience.
I know they really enjoyed it, but like you have said in this episode, you just never know
down the road how that might come into play.
Well I appreciate all of your awesome helpful tips today.
Kelly and I know there are people out there who are going to find this really helpful.
And if nothing else fascinating like I always do, so I appreciate your time today.
Is there any exciting trips you have coming up or projects that you're working on?
Yes, I am going to Mexico in two weeks for a press trip in the Ramiya.
So I'm very excited about that to escape the New York cold because it's freezing here.
Can you share with us what you'll be doing there?
What is that tap secret?
I think I can share.
I mean I'm going to stay at the Rosewood Maya Coba and visiting for, they're actually having
like an arts and culture, like they have an annual arts and culture celebration there.
So that's what the press trip is for.
What I'm going to check it out because we're working on a best hotels package.
So we're considering it as for that.
Very cool.
So what is your process?
I didn't ask you this previously but I know you'll have an answer.
What's your process for like packing?
How will you pick outfits or is it not necessarily about that?
It's just about gathering good content.
Well, it's definitely not about that but I do enjoy that and I have nice and cute my
floor right now actually.
I do like have a packing list already.
Okay.
In my mind everything I am like prepared.
I knew you would because you're just organized like that.
So you are living out your dream that you set for yourself early on before any of this
came to fruition and how is your reality living up to your dream?
You're in New York, you're doing the thing.
How is it living up to everything you had set out in your mind?
It has been incredible.
I still fully like I can't fully comprehend the life that I'm living.
It's been pretty much like a six year long pinch me moment.
Yeah, that is awesome.
Well I'm going to put your Instagram obviously and your portfolio in the show notes and so
I'll apologize right away if you get any sort of groupies or maybe there is someone who
liked your advice and maybe just would like to connect with you a little bit more outside
of this episode but I appreciate you being on and sharing all your wisdom and your fascinating
life with us today.
Of course, happy to do so.
Thank you for joining us for this week's episode of Life's Next Lesson Plan.
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