When I talk contemporary issues years ago, I always started the lesson all for what are
the values of our society and what do you value.
And the students would write things, a brief summary of that, what they thought our society
valued and what they value.
And then we'd look at all of the issues we talk about through that lens.
And the main thing I tried to point them toward is that what you think is the most important
thing to spend your time on or your money on is what you value.
And I've always valued being around my family and travel.
That's what we, with my kids, we went to dozens of national parks.
We toured all around the country.
Went to Europe.
I studied in Europe for a while.
You know, I get a chance, you know, me, I'm heading off somewhere to travel.
Hello and welcome back to Life's Next Lesson Plan podcast where I continue to pave my post
education path after three decades as an English teacher.
One thing I hear often from retired educators is that the loss of identity is difficult,
especially for those of us who've been teachers our entire adult lives.
This podcast is a way for me to explore a new adventure while also staying rooted in
my education background by putting some of what I taught as a journalism teacher to the
test.
At the same time, my goal is to connect with others looking to take their next steps in
life, whether that be personal or career related.
To bridge my transition out of education, you'll find that this podcast follows a similar
structure to the classroom.
Twice a month, I'll have solo episodes and twice a month, I'll have a guest with me
so we can learn together.
Each podcast will have a brief lecture or lesson followed by an activity to engage you
in the episode, along with some optional homework.
This will remind me of my school days where some students thought homework was an option.
It is my hope that by engaging in each lesson and completing the homework, you will learn
something new but also uncover ideas for your Life's Next Lesson Plan, however you
want that to look.
This podcast is not just for educators or midlifers though.
The ideas can apply at any stage of life for anyone searching to feel more fulfilled.
And with that said, let's get to today's guest.
So today we're fortunate enough to have someone who's been in education definitely longer
than me but maybe not by much.
I'll let him explain a little bit of his background and then we will get into our connection and
how we know each other.
So it is my pleasure to introduce to the podcast today Mr. Tony Engel.
So Mr. Engel, can you share your background with us?
Well, thanks for having me Rachel.
I really appreciate it.
Yeah, I started teaching in the early 1990s taught for nearly 30 years.
Most of the here at Homestead High School taught world history and criminal justice.
Start out teaching English like you did but got out of the department shortly before you
got here and use that as a stepping stone to as you know my passion to get into traveling
and one of my world history students to see the places we talked about.
So I began to play in trips with them, kind of got into that by working with my mentor
at the time and just became a passion for me.
That's so awesome.
Yeah, and a lot of, did you ever add up how many kids you took traveling?
Yeah, just close to 800.
I actually have close to 800 students.
And then you couple that with how many students you actually taught over 30 years.
It's a lot of names.
That's what I think.
I give myself a little bit of grace not remembering names as well as I used to.
I actually went back and put them all on a spreadsheet because that's how I found it.
You know what I have to do this sometimes.
I went back through all the old lists.
So I know personally myself, obviously we met at Homestead and then we traveled together
to six countries and I remember it was 42 students on that trip.
And I definitely remember one moment that stood out to me on that trip.
In my mind I imagine like a Spider-Man where we had a student trying to scale the outside
of a hotel.
Was it in Switzerland?
It was in Switzerland.
You and I were walking across to a beach.
We were going to check out a beach.
And we looked back and this is the lady stretching the outside of her balcony trying to get to
her friend's balcony.
That definitely stands out to me.
And the student in Paris who met up with a Macquan family and this is before WhatsApp
and all the fancy ways to communicate by phone.
And we'll just say she was on her own for a little bit with that family in Paris.
I had forgotten that on that trip.
Oh yeah, that's the one that I could not find her for hours.
And I think it was you who ended up sitting in the subway or something and showed up.
I've got to go back to the hotel and call her parent.
And so I took the subway back and when I got off the train there she was sitting on
the bench at our stop.
And she goes, I didn't know how to get to the hotel from here.
But I knew this was our stop.
And I can remember telling her, I don't know if I want to hug you right now or scream at
you.
But I was like, I'm just so glad to see you.
Yes, those are the two that stand out for me.
So that was memorable.
I'm sure you have a lot of other funny travel stories.
Do you have any funny classroom stories?
Not just being a teacher, it's always a million that you could have.
One of the funniest and I told when I retired was we used to have a home at class here at
Homestead.
And a young lady came back to me, her sophomore, junior, had her as a freshman for World History.
And great kid, she came back and she was in foods and she came back.
So Mr. Engel, we made cheesecake today in Home Act.
And I just wanted to bring you one.
It's so good.
And so she brought it to me and she walked over.
She was, do you like ovarian cheesecake?
I tried not to laugh and I said, you mean bavarian?
She was, oh yeah, then she got beet red and I laughed too.
It was pretty humorous.
Yes.
Those are the...
No sophomore girls or three girls on a date.
She probably hasn't forgotten this.
I'm sure she has it right.
Sure she gets shocked that she's such a thing.
Well for all of the high moments and positives in teaching, there always comes a time where
you contemplate like, am I ready to go, is it my time to leave education?
So do you remember going through that in your own mind?
I do.
And as you know, I still love to sub.
I still love to teach.
So I've never quite totally left education, but I knew it was time for me to quit teaching
full time in 2018.
My daughter took a job.
She was going, she was asked to manage a number of pharmacies on the West Coast.
And she has four children and as you know, I'm passionate about my grandchildren.
And so I knew that I wanted the time to be able to see them, whatever possible.
So at that point I realized it's time for me to look at it.
I reached that retirement age where I could get my step out of here with my pension and
be able to travel, had the ability to do so.
So I thought, okay, it's time to leave and I can see my grandkids whenever I want, but
yet I can still, that's the nice thing about a profession.
If we want to still teach, we can come back.
But we develop so many skills.
There's so many other things we can do.
I'm doing all kinds of other things as you and I have talked about over the years.
And government and voting and things like that.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, and you can always sub.
And I love to sub for you and the people in the building that come back and see the people
who I know, all you young people.
Right, right.
I think that is kind of a nice fallback that you know, the both the skills that you have
and there's always a demand for people who are comfortable in a classroom, right?
And comfortable with kids.
Definitely.
You have to communicate and connect with people.
Right, right, absolutely.
So when you do come back and sub compared to when you started teaching, what are some
of the changes that you see in today's classrooms?
Well, as you know, the big thing is the telephone.
We've seen it with some districts wanting to pass ordinances that limit the phones being
in the school.
I love something for a district nearby that has that.
But mainly it's just trying to keep the kids' attention span away from that phone.
Basically, most of the teachers are pretty good about having a great lesson plan or procedure
in place.
But there are some that's like, well, the kids want to have their phone out and I'm like,
no, I can't.
I can't do that.
So it's one of those things you have to balance.
That's the biggest thing.
I've seen.
Yeah, I'm definitely.
I think some of the initiatives even at Homestead in the last year or two have centered on reading
the anxious generation just about how it's affecting their brains and their intentions.
Because as you plan lessons, you have to keep that in mind too.
But I would agree that is a huge change.
Yeah, that's the biggest change.
Even when I started, phones were just coming out and they definitely weren't in classrooms
or in schools.
So yeah, huge, huge difference.
So when you were teaching, do you remember there being a person or group of people that
you looked up to in your profession?
Well, I was very fortunate.
I joined a department that had six or seven people who started about the same time I did.
But I was very fortunate because when I was, I did my, my education degree, Marquette University,
and I was placed with Brooke Brown.
And everyone knows Brooke Brown, whoever went to this building.
Brooke is a legend.
Everyone I think looked up to Brooke.
I mean, and still do with anyone who's still around and knows it.
And he was just the perfect mentor.
We had the same philosophy about life in general.
We have very similar personalities, the same interests.
We both looked history, of course.
Teaching history, we both love to travel.
As a matter of fact, he's the one who kind of started these trips with students here in
homes ten years, though decades ago.
He was on the trip that I was on.
Oh, that's right.
Yes.
So I kept inviting him back with me once he retired.
I was fortunate enough to do that.
You know how great a chaperone he is.
And despite the fact you'd been out here for eight or 10 years by the time you traveled
with him, you know, he still makes connections with students.
And we were both at the same way.
And what's kind of funny is after I'd been teaching here 10 or 15 years, I had a parent
teacher conference and I had some parents who came to the conference and they were talking
about, oh, you're the young Mr. Brown.
And I was like, what?
Fault in a compliment.
That's what I thought.
Exactly what I thought.
And they said, well, at our dinner table, we're the first Mr. Brown as the old Mr.
Engle and you as the young Mr. Brown.
Who are so much alike and he can talk about how they enjoy having both of you.
And all three of their kids ended up going on a trip with me.
They're all this child who went on a trip with Brooke.
And so, you know, it's kind of funny.
So he was my mentor that I've always got along with.
Matter of fact, he will be coming over Thursday for Thanksgiving dinner.
Oh, no, that's perfect.
It is why I'm coming Thanksgiving dinner with him.
He's still eating that close bone.
I'd love to have him on the show too in the future.
He would be a great, yes.
Yeah, he would because as you said, a lot of people know him.
I'll write it by on the...
Okay, thank you.
Yeah, he's the ultimate when you say his name, especially in this area, right?
Yes.
Like everybody knows him.
He was the legend.
So when you kind of knew, obviously, because you wanted more flexibility to be with your
grandkids and see your own kids, obviously, what were some of the goals maybe that went
along with that when you were envisioning your time after retirement?
Well, you know, I was thinking about this, how I've kind of plotted what I was going
to do.
I always started to bring up two different issues years ago.
I always started the lesson of what are the values of our society and what you value.
And the students would write things, a brief summary of that, what they thought our society
value and what they value.
And then we'd look at all of the issues we talked about through that lens.
And the main thing I tried to point them toward is that what you think is the most
important things to spend your time on or your money on is what you value.
Yeah.
And I've always valued being around my family and travel.
That's what we, with my kids, we went to dozens
of national parks, we toured all around the country.
Went to Europe, my son did a study in Europe for a while.
You know, first I get a chance, you know, me,
I'm heading off somewhere to travel.
I ended every one of my classes with the phrase,
have lots of great adventures.
As students walked out the door, you heard me say that
before to the kids.
And, you know, just trying something new.
And so I thought I want to take this opportunity to travel
and whatever possible, travel with my grandkids and my kids.
So that was my focus.
Where do I want to go?
What things are worth my time?
And who do I want to do it with?
This is almost exactly what I talked about
in the first episode of the podcast.
Yeah, that's just what you value.
I've heard it yet.
No, no, it's okay, it just came out today.
So you're excused.
Okay.
But yeah, that's just kind of like when you envision,
when you have time and life slows down a little bit
and you can pick and choose what you want to do.
That's the exact word I used was your value.
Yeah.
You know, you value your time, right?
And then how you spend that time.
So, okay, that resonates with me.
I'm right on track.
So kind of along with that,
if you could give listeners of any age,
a piece of life advice about kind of creating their life
on their own terms, would it go along with kind of
what you just said or along those lines
or something different?
Yeah, I mean, I've always said,
I wrote an every year book the kid gave me,
you know, have lots of great adventures.
I know, adventure doesn't have to be a long thought out trip.
It doesn't have to be something that's going to make,
you know, some newsworthy event.
Adventure is just something new.
Try something new.
Just, you know, I would tell my students,
I usually get that spilled in my freshman,
the very first day.
Said, you were on a new journey now.
And you may not have tried out for a play before.
You may not have gone to sporting events before.
You may not have done any of these clubs before.
Explore those, try them, see which ones you like,
which ones you don't.
And, you know, I tried to raise my kids that way.
I tried to expose them to as many things as possible,
you know, and a lot of them didn't take.
My son was not a sports guy.
He did not want to do sports, but he loved,
he became very passionate about kayaking.
And so he kayaks all over the world, you know,
he knows about his kayaking journeys and that finally took.
I finally took in kayaking his sophomore year here.
And he loved it and became passionate about it.
And I think that's what I tried to teach the students,
is just keep trying something.
You can find something you like.
And the more adventures you have.
And I said, and it makes you a more interesting person.
I said, the more experiences you have,
the more exposure, various backgrounds,
the more interesting you are.
You make connections with people through that.
Yeah, definitely.
It's interesting as I've been trying to watch my budget,
knowing my decision, and then also knowing
my daughter's going to college after this year.
We've been doing a lot of just local trips,
like longer weekend trips.
And that has been actually, first of all, so eye opening,
that there are so many things to do, so close to home.
Yes.
And just thinking like, I don't have to spend all this money
or even get on a plane to experience, like you said,
new things and meet new people and be like,
I want to come back here, like Dubuque, Iowa.
Who knew?
Dubuques and Great City, I want to know, yes.
I never would have thought, and we were coming back
on the way home from Galena, you know?
And I need to go back there.
And I would have not have explored that
had I not done all these recent nearby trips.
That's what you mentioned,
because I always, whenever I travel,
I love to get up, as you know, super early
and go out for a run or walk around the areas I'm in
and just explore them.
I mean, I do research like crazy before I get there.
But I also like to see what the city's like
or the community's like in the morning.
And we were just talking to an English teacher
before he came down.
And I had done that in Indianapolis,
so he'd been in the city.
And I'd found three or four really great spots in the city.
And he was commenting, but who knew
someone could make Indianapolis so exciting?
Exactly, yeah.
I mean, it's just gonna be a little situation.
You just explore, go out there
and try to find something new to do.
And, and, yeah, there's a lot of hidden gems
that are nearby.
Absolutely.
It's been fun.
Wherever you go.
Yeah, exactly.
So that kind of brings us very easily actually
into your lesson that you're going to teach today,
which involves travel.
And you're gonna offer some travel hacks, some tips.
I'm gonna throw.
Okay, awesome.
So let's hear what you have for us for your lesson today.
Just before we get into our lesson today,
I have a few teacher discounts to offer
that relate to today's episode.
Mr. Engel and all of his travel wisdom
may send you to the library
or to a half price books to pick up some travel material
and some of his favorite books
that he'll mention in his lesson today.
Teachers can save on travel books at half price books.
Their discount program saves teachers 10% year round.
If you're looking for some travel devices
to take along on your next adventure,
take advantage of big savings from Apple
with their education pricing on certain devices.
Also, educators can get 10% off their purchases at LL Bean.
If you're looking for new boots for hiking
or new rain gear or just some warm socks
for the temperatures dipping in the upcoming months.
Don't forget to take advantage of those teacher discounts.
Well, you're gonna have a link.
So share with the podcast, right?
And it's basically have a Google map
to get yourself ready to travel.
I do this every time I travel.
People know I'm kind of ridiculous with it.
But I've done it for five or six sets of parents
who's kids traveled with me in the past.
I even prepared for my Europe trips
when I would take students.
I've done it for a couple of our former colleagues
who have traveled.
One went over to France for the Women's World Cup
a few years ago with his wife.
And I prepared Google maps for them
for the city's really gonna watch matches
and things that they shouldn't see and do
where they should stay, where they should eat.
And so it's basically trying to give yourself
the chance to have a handy reference guide
instead of carrying around an atlas with you.
So that way you can just look on your phone
or your iPad or whatever you carry around.
And find a way around the city.
That's awesome.
Yeah, I will definitely have a link to his
step-by-step guide that will be in the show notes.
And then in there, you have linked some slides.
Yes.
Right, okay.
And the slides will help them with what aspect?
Well, once they're ready to prepare the map,
it will give them, it will show them exactly
what they need to click on in order to add sites, restaurants,
anything of interest to them that they want to put on there.
And that's what I help people,
I help people prepare these maps as well.
When I sat down with them and said,
you know, you decide what you want to put in.
And that's kind of where I wanted to start with this,
is the first thing is, what's your objective?
Either where do you want to go?
Who do you want to travel with?
Budget's very important as well.
You know, keep that in mind as well.
And then the last thing is, decide what type of traveler you are.
Are you someone who's out for vacation,
who wants to just kick back and maybe my Google slides
aren't quite like that for those type of people,
because I don't travel like that very often.
I balance it because my wife is.
So we balance when I try to find spots where we can vacation.
But I'm more the explorer.
I like to actually have that adventure and travel.
So if someone picks a city or a state,
and then they know a couple maybe landmarks that they want to go to,
it will help them sort of navigate paths or doesn't work.
Absolutely.
Yes.
But that's the second thing you will notice if you go through my slide.
The second one is research.
And the research is, if you decide what to travel with groups,
you know, the Rick Steves type thing or the Rhodes scholar,
I love Rhodes scholar.
It can be Globus, it can be National Geographic,
Expeditions, there are lots of great different companies out there
that leak great trips.
If that's where you travel, you know, look through all those options
and see what's interest you.
Once you've chosen one, you know, look at the costs,
see if it's feasible.
And then don't just stick with what they have down as their itinerary.
Research those places.
And then step two, I have, you know, it's under independent travel,
is read a variety of guidebooks.
I love the DKI witness books.
I think they do a wonderful job because I'm a history teacher.
They start with the history of every little.
So that's always, you know, the selling point for me.
Oh, history there.
But then, you know, the photos and all the others that are out there,
the Rick Steves guys books, all those other things.
Do your research and then compile a list.
And if you're through, think about, like I said, what are you value?
I'm a history guy.
I love museums.
You know, me, I love the art museum, the history museums.
And I, so I always make sure those are on there.
You know, something that I love to go to the, where I can get a view over the town.
So I love to climb and get a, a vista.
I want to look out over the city and see the rooftops.
We're sitting here at that Eiffel Tower.
You know, I just took the grandkids up there two years ago, you know,
they loved going up there and looking out over Paris.
And then I took them up to Montmartre, probably one of them.
And as the sunset, looking out over the city, as the lights come on at night.
You know, I love to look for those.
I put vistas.
Restaurants that I've been to the past or that I've read about or I've seen reviews on
phone.
We're trying that one out this night.
So I have that as kind of a list I compile as I go through.
And so you get all that done.
Oh, and then online sites as well.
There's all kind of, you know, sometimes you go to a TripAdvisor, but sometimes there'll
be social media stuff.
I found a wonderful called Secret London and they have really great just out of the way
places in London was really unique spins that you would never think of going to.
And so, and I found those secret cities, different sites on social media that I really enjoy
and finding different places that go to these different towns and things.
So I do that as my home.
You know, as a teacher, you never really have to have that background knowledge.
You have to be prepared for anything.
So, so I started there.
And then I guess, you know, we talked about having a homework assignment for people as
you can see on people go to the link.
They'll see that then prepare a Google map.
I show you how to put these onto a map.
And what's great is that they're all their fingertips.
And you can see is this within reach?
Is this possible?
Is it too far from me to get to?
It's going to be too time consuming.
It's a total way and you can kind of decide that as you go through.
And maybe it's something you say for a later trip.
Or a different day.
Yeah, okay.
But you can schedule a trip that way.
But then, you know, I break it down and I tell them how to create the map as if they
go through this on your website on their link.
And then you can layer it.
And like I'm going on a cruise down the Rhone River in April.
And we're going to start it having on in France.
And so I've broken it on my sickness from the cruise.
We can city stop.
But I put a link in the bottom of this of Amsterdam.
If you look at the Amsterdam app, I've got sites.
You know, Dan Frank House and a couple of churches and other places I love in Amsterdam.
But then I've got, you know, yellow for restaurants that I love in Amsterdam.
I've got, I think I have a list of hotels there.
And I also put a list of walks.
There's a, I put walks on mine that I enjoy.
There's this one region, you know, walking along the canals of Amsterdam.
It's hard to beat.
So a couple of my favorite little streets that I've five or six or seven streets walk.
I think it's, you know.
As long as you're watching out bikers.
Yeah.
I remember that.
I remember that as well.
Yeah.
Since they're ugly.
Head on a swivel.
The streets that would cluelessly walk out.
They were still a little tired when we got to.
Yeah.
That's true.
Yeah.
So that's what I, that's kind of what I have down here.
And I'm like, I told you before, what's nice is that then we're over there and you're like,
okay, you come up out of a subway like, okay, how do, where is the Anne Frank's house from
here?
Pull up your phone.
Boom.
There's your, okay, it's this way.
And you know, you can get there right away.
By just pulling up the map.
And so it's very handy tool to have once you're there as well.
Did you teach this to yourself?
I did.
Oh, look at you.
That's awesome.
I know I love maps.
I'm kind of a thing, an industry teacher and stuff.
But.
Yeah.
I really like that.
And now that, now that you say you kind of have your top priorities of what you want
to do when you're on a trip and mine always involves water.
Yeah.
So like just last weekend we were driving up to Western Michigan to see my Goddaughter
perform in a play.
And of course it was like, okay, if we hug the coastline, you know, or where are the places
that we can stop where there's water and walk in the sand.
And yeah.
So that's like one of the things.
So I guess I never thought about that that is kind of how I prioritize stops and places
that you go.
And that's what's nice about the map.
You can actually, I will have some of my maps will have read for the, for the sites that
are like my top five or 10 and then there'll be other sites secondary.
And then there's a text box you can create an edit box and you, you can hit the little
edit button.
I show you how to do that on there as well.
But then you can type in what you want to see there.
For example, when we were in Amsterdam, I think we went to the Rijksmuseum and I could
put the top 10 things I want to see in the Rijksmuseum.
Make sure I see this as well.
Even break it down in a certain place.
Right.
Exactly.
So I have the point of interest, but then I can remind myself, oh yeah, make sure you
go see this while you're in there.
So definitely love about it.
Right.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Wow.
You could have definitely had another career or still could as a travel agent.
Right.
Like, I can do that quite a bit on it.
Freelancing.
Yes.
Okay.
Well, I will definitely post all of that for people who want to create their own and
dabble around and that that's great.
I'm going to be practicing with that myself.
As well.
So last before we have you leave, where are your next upcoming trips that you're most
excited about?
I'm going to get, I just thought of something as you're, you talked about memories.
Yeah.
So I have to tell you one memory for my trips that always stand out.
Yeah.
You talked about earlier.
So back in 2006, I had a group of 45, 47 students, so rather large group.
We went to Versailles.
Okay.
Versailles and they're like, sir, your group is too big.
We need to break you into two groups.
And I said, okay, that's fine.
So the first group went out and they said, sir, we have three Americans who want the
English tour, which can they join your group?
And I said, sure, no problem.
I don't mind.
And so they bring in the group and I look around, do a double take and it's Martha Stewart
and two trades.
So I toured Versailles with Martha Stewart.
What?
That is a great tour.
Oh, at first I thought you were going to say that they mistook you for the tour guide.
Oh, no.
And then they were like waiting for you to give them all a spiel.
Yes.
Oh, wow, did you speak with her?
She was great.
I didn't talk to her.
I talked to her and just said, hi, you know, and told her who we were in our group.
And that was it.
But the students would end up in the desk about having pictures stateful with her.
And she was fantastic.
She was like, yeah, but let's do it when we're off somewhere where people don't see it happening
because people don't know who I am.
So she was really gracious.
Oh, wow.
Fantastic.
So yeah, that was pretty wild.
Oh my gosh, that is wild.
Too bad Snoop Dogg, her new sidekick, all of a sudden.
That made him really ready.
Okay, so what's coming up?
Well, I just got back from a trip to just last Monday, from a trip to Arizona, Nevada,
playing golf down there with one of our fellow retirees.
And we have a trip to Reno, Nevada coming up in December.
That's where my daughter now is.
And so, you know, we're going out, spending time at the bank.
And then I've got a Google map of the Reno area of things that we have to do.
And by the way, there's a great auto museum there.
Oh.
Or just, you know, owners donated to the city, which is fantastic.
So I recommend that.
Okay, okay.
They toss a short drive.
That is on my list.
I really want to go to like.
And also the Donner party, but through Donner Pass, you get Donner Pass to go up there.
But it is really cool because Donner Lake, there are docks out there that you can just
go out and just get there early and stick to claim to it.
And you get your own private dock for the day.
You can dive off, you can pick your paddleboards off.
So I highly recommend that.
Okay, good.
Yeah.
Those are things I found in the
Good.
Search about there.
So, good time.
Yeah, we are thanking the Rome River crews.
I've always wanted to see the city of known where the popes were in exile in the Babylonian
captivity.
And then we'll go up to Leon and the great restaurants and history there as well.
We're going to visit my son in London as part of that trip as well.
We are looking at an Alaska cruise for next summer.
And then of course, I've got trips playing.
I've been, you know me, I love to ride my motorcycle around as well.
So my wife has been like, go because I told her, oh, I want to ride my motorcycle on these
different Western states.
I want to take the motorcycle, load it in the back of the truck and go off-roading out
in Colorado, in Wyoming, in Nevada, and a few other states out there.
So there's a foreseeable future that we're playing right now.
So other than that, I'm sure we'll hop up.
I think next fall we're talking about doing Maine.
I never could do Maine because I was the Bay coach for all those years.
And so it is with, you know, friendships and debate and stuff.
It eats up the weekends during the fall.
And so I'm looking forward to seeing New England in the fall next year, I think.
Finally going to get there.
You might actually be busier in retirement than you were in teaching.
Yes.
I am doing some other things as well.
Exactly.
I hear that's kind of the secret though, is to just keep moving, right?
You know how it is.
You find things to do.
Protect projects.
And go for it, enjoy it.
Right?
And you find time for it.
Yes, exactly.
Well, I thank you so, so much for being my first guest.
I know that there are so many people who will be excited to hear your stories, and I'm
excited to share this with them.
So I thank you again.
Well, thanks Rachel.
It was really fun.
Yeah.
Thank you so much for joining us today.
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