1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,800 We ask ourselves, is this enterprise the woman in the red dress? 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:05,840 Is it like the shiny object syndrome? 3 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:07,680 Yeah, direct marketing sounds great. 4 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:09,400 I'm selling beef. It's so much fun. 5 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:10,760 Customers are happy. 6 00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:12,360 But is it the woman in the red dress? 7 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:16,800 Are you making the money or could you be doing something else and it be really 8 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:21,680 growing that enterprise and really expanding on your quality of life and profitability? 9 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:37,680 Welcome to the 342nd installment of Ear to the Ground, the Land Stewardship Projects 10 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:42,000 podcast on family farming, regenerative agriculture, community food systems, 11 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:46,160 and local democracy. I'm Brian DeVore, editor of the Land Stewardship Letter. 12 00:00:46,160 --> 00:00:51,600 When I was growing up on a farm in southwestern Iowa, we used to hand milk cows while 13 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:57,560 balancing precariously on one-legged stools. It certainly made dairy chores an interesting, 14 00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:03,160 if somewhat tipsy, endeavor. I think a lot about how today's farmers keep things in balance 15 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:08,360 whenever I visit Wholesome Family Farms, a livestock enterprise run by Rochelle and 16 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:11,400 Jordan Meyer in the Driftless region of southeastern Minnesota. 17 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:15,440 It seems like whenever I travel to the owned and rented acres they farm, 18 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:20,800 the Myers have just added a new enterprise. Besides running a conventional dairy, 19 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:24,800 they have pasture-based enterprises that involve rotationally grazing goats, 20 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:30,200 beef cattle, hogs, and poultry. Besides direct marketing meat and raw milk to consumers, 21 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:35,720 the Myers lease out their goats to people hoping to rehabilitate worn-out land that's been taken 22 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:40,920 over by invasive plants. So earlier this summer, when I traveled to their farm to attend the Land 23 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:46,160 Stewardship Projects Driftless Grazing School that they were hosting, it wasn't surprising to learn 24 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:51,640 that the Meyer family had added yet another enterprise in the form of an 800 head flock 25 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:56,840 of sheep. Besides selling used, they're leasing out the sheep to help control vegetation beneath 26 00:01:56,840 --> 00:02:01,640 solar arrays in the region. But as they made clear during their grazing school presentation, 27 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:07,320 there's a method to the madness when it comes to deciding what enterprises to add as well as drop 28 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:13,480 on Wholesome Family Farms. The Myers are in their early 30s and have seven children. That means any 29 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:17,960 business decisions they make on the farm must be balanced against the needs of the family, first and 30 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:23,720 foremost. That became painfully clear in the spring of 2024 when they experienced the tragedy 31 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:29,640 of having one of their daughters, April, taken from them in a farm accident. Rochelle says they 32 00:02:29,640 --> 00:02:34,600 keep their balance utilizing the three-legged stool strategy. The farm family perches on top 33 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:41,960 of this metaphorical stool and each leg represents a key ingredient to overall success. Profitability, 34 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:49,000 soil health, and quality of life. If any of these legs are out of whack, the whole stool collapses. 35 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:53,400 Such a strategy has helped the Myers not only determine that adding an enterprise like sheep 36 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:58,440 worked for them, the land, and their family, but also led them to decide that the cow, calf, 37 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:04,280 and turkey businesses they formerly had were not good fits. Their message received a good response 38 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:09,480 from the dozens of farmers who attended the two-day LSB grazing school, which was led by 39 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:14,680 other grazers from the region and which featured hands-on tutorials in everything from fencing and 40 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:21,960 watering systems to monitoring soil health biology, managing finances, and developing grazing plans. 41 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:26,120 Bringing together farmers to discuss cutting-edge approaches to livestock production 42 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:32,120 generates a lot of excitement around the potential for adding enterprises to an operation. 43 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:39,240 Jordan and Rochelle's advice to maintain a balanced approach via a solid three-legged stool was a good 44 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:44,760 practical reminder that even the most innovative management practice means little if it's not 45 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:50,680 sustainable on multiple levels. In between sessions at the grazing school, Rochelle talked to me about 46 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:57,000 how the three-legged stool concept drives their decision making. For one thing, she says, it helps 47 00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:02,360 greatly in not being sidetracked by something that can distract a farm from doing what it does well, 48 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:08,360 the proverbial woman in the red dress. One of the things I've been to your farm several times 49 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:13,080 into land that you've rented and that you're kind of reclaiming using goats, which is a really 50 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:18,280 impressive system you've got going there on some some rented land that's pretty marginal, pretty 51 00:04:18,280 --> 00:04:25,000 rough ground. I know one of the things that's a real focus for you folks is soil health, but one 52 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:30,600 of the things you were talking about today was that's part of a three-legged stool for you, and 53 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:35,480 I think that's a really important piece. Could you talk a little bit about that, what are what parts 54 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:40,040 of that three-legged stool there are and kind of maybe a couple examples of how you've had to 55 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:43,560 refer to that a little bit when you're doing your your management, your day-to-day management, 56 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:48,680 and your long-term management? Yeah, so basically the concept of the three-legged stool is you're 57 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:53,000 on top of the stool, and then the first leg represents your profitability, and then the 58 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:57,800 second leg would be your soil health, and then your third leg would be your quality of life. 59 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:01,960 It's talked a lot about holistic management. I think the legs are maybe different, and we kind 60 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:07,320 of catered it towards what our like our family specifically values. We really value the quality 61 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:11,960 of life, you know, we have seven kids, and then we really value that soil health and that profitability, 62 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:16,360 you know, we got to make money to make all this work. So they're all really really important to us, 63 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:22,280 and the way the concept kind of works is if you're really focusing on like your profitability side, 64 00:05:22,280 --> 00:05:26,760 maybe you're running way more animal units than you should be, your soil health is going to lack, 65 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:30,920 or your quality of, you know, quality of life might might be lacking, or if you're really focusing on 66 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:35,480 that quality of life piece, and you're adding in a bunch of interior fencing, and you're not doing 67 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:39,800 daily moves like you should be, or you're overgrazing paddocks, you're going to sacrifice 68 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:45,720 on the soil health side. So any decisions we make on our farm, any enterprises we choose to bring in, 69 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:51,560 any fencing we add, any basically anything runs through that three-legged stool process to make 70 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:56,280 sure that we stay balanced. Of course it's not going to be a perfect balance all the time, but we 71 00:05:56,280 --> 00:05:59,640 want to stay on top, and we don't want one of those legs too short or we're going to fall over. 72 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:04,760 I'm actually really glad to hear that, and don't take this personally, but I always am concerned 73 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:08,040 about how many enterprises you guys are involved with, and you kind of have a little bit of a 74 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:13,560 reputation of taking on a lot of enterprises. I know sheep you've recently added, but it sounds 75 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:18,520 like you there's a method to the madness. You really don't just jump into everything. You think 76 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:23,800 about that that three-legged stool a lot. Yeah, we really do, and most people that know us know we 77 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:29,320 lost our daughter, you know, April, a couple months back, and that really was like, okay, is everything 78 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:33,800 we're doing really making sense? Are we focusing on that quality of life? Because you get your family 79 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:38,200 once, and that's it. You know, you get one life, so you better be making sure that you really do 80 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:43,400 in everything in your heart that you should be doing, and that's kind of why we focus our farm 81 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:47,720 on that. We truly believe that God has put us here to take care of the land and to do all this, 82 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:51,320 and so we want to make sure that we're prioritizing him and what he wants us to do, 83 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:56,840 and so yeah, we run tons of enterprises, but we make sure that it goes through that stool first, 84 00:06:56,840 --> 00:07:02,520 because otherwise you're not going to be here for the long run. If it's not sustainable for you, 85 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:06,120 it's not sustainable for the land. Well, and then Jordan being, you know, a fourth-generation dairy 86 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:11,160 farmer, we hope to continue that legacy, and if we still want to be here, we have to love farming, 87 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:15,000 and if we love farming, our kids are going to love farming, but in order to do that, it all has to 88 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:21,560 be balanced or somewhat balanced. Yeah, one of the things you talked about was the you don't get too 89 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:27,000 much invested in infrastructure. I mean, you need some basic infrastructure, but it sounds like you're 90 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:33,720 trying to strike a balance of not getting so much into maybe a one-use infrastructure that if that 91 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:38,120 enterprise doesn't work out and you have to drop it, and all of a sudden you've got this cost of 92 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:44,360 this big structure that you've put in, a big barn or whatever, that you're trying to focus more on 93 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:51,960 infrastructure that, for one thing, is as affordable as possible, but is not like this kind of big 94 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:57,720 bricks and mortar kind of solid thing that you can't adapt to something else or whatever, but 95 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:01,880 it sounds like that's a really important piece to you. Yeah, infrastructure makes sense, but it makes 96 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:08,760 sense, and we have found 99% of the time we've grown so much that that infrastructure isn't 97 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:12,920 relevant anymore, and that's the trouble. When you're trying to make money on your farm, you're 98 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:17,800 going to be continually growing, expanding, changing ideas, so you don't want to be too committed. 99 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:21,960 And now infrastructure, you know, we're not committed on any enterprise either. We had a cow-calf 100 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:27,160 operation here, and we ran numbers, and it didn't make sense anymore. The cow price went way up, 101 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:33,400 feed costs went up, and it makes sense to just get rid of them. And so just being able to be adaptive, 102 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:37,960 that's what we call it. And perimeter fencing, yeah sure, that makes sense, but not even being 103 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:41,800 too committed on that. Like you want to be able to utilize your woodland, you want to be able to 104 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:47,400 utilize all of your acreage, and so that's where that quality of life piece comes into place, 105 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:52,600 making enough infrastructure to make sure your quality of life stays intact. Yeah, and that you 106 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,880 talked about fencing, and I thought this was a strike, I've heard you talk about this before. 107 00:08:56,760 --> 00:09:02,440 You suggested when people kind of jump into this, into say adaptive grazing, that type of thing, 108 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:07,480 to not maybe put in perimeter fencing right away. Talk about that a little bit. I think some people 109 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:11,800 were a little bit surprised at that. Yeah, so when we first started farming a lot of our farms, we 110 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:18,200 didn't have existing fence, and you don't know how your land is going to act until you've actually 111 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:23,480 ran it for quite a few years. You know, we've seen our land change. It's like this, so last year was 112 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:28,680 a, you know, one of the worst droughts we've ever seen, and our farm carried 50 more animal units 113 00:09:28,680 --> 00:09:33,720 than we ever have in the past on a drought year. Now this year, we could probably add in another 50 114 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:39,560 plus more animal units. So it's like, you don't want to add in all this perimeter fencing and be 115 00:09:39,560 --> 00:09:44,920 like, okay, now I'm stuck. Now I can't graze this correctly because it's too small or too big or 116 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:51,720 whatever that might be. So we really believe that running a farm for a few years and just using some 117 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:56,040 temporary polywire or whatever that is, makes the most sense that you're not dumping a lot of money 118 00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:59,960 into something that might not make sense in a couple years. I would think maybe the direct 119 00:09:59,960 --> 00:10:05,320 marketing, because you're very much involved with the direct marketing now, that that must add a 120 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:10,760 real, another wrinkle to that whole three-legged stool, because that can be time spent off the farm, 121 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:16,440 time spent doing maybe the stuff that's not so fun, you know, trying to figure out customers, 122 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:21,240 what the customers want, and process, dealing with processing that type of thing. Yeah, so that 123 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:26,360 actually, that was one thing we really evaluated when we lost April, and we added the sheep. So we 124 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:31,480 actually added the sheep in February, we lost April in April, and it was like, okay, something's got to 125 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:35,080 give because we can only, we have to take care of our family, we have to take care of our animals 126 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:39,480 still, so like what makes sense. So we are still doing the direct marketing, however, we did step 127 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:44,120 back from farmers markets, you know, they take up your entire Saturday, every single week for the 128 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:48,440 entire summer. It just made sense for our farm and where we're at. We kind of actually use another 129 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:53,080 analogy, it's called the women in the red dress. So if you were in a crowd of a bunch of people 130 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:57,960 just wearing normal colored clothes, and a woman walked down the center of the road with this bright 131 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:04,040 red beautiful dress, everybody's eyes would turn to her. So we ask ourselves, is this enterprise 132 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:09,320 the woman in the red dress? Is it like the shiny object syndrome? Yeah, direct marketing sounds 133 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:14,360 great, I'm selling beef, it's so much fun, customers are happy, but is it the woman in the red dress? 134 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:19,320 Are you making the money, or could you be doing something else, and it be really growing that 135 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:24,680 enterprise, and really expanding on your quality of life and profitability. And that's where the 136 00:11:24,680 --> 00:11:29,640 direct marketing this year was like, hmm, she might be the woman in the red dress, you know, our sheep. 137 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:35,400 We have 800 ewes out there, and it's like that enterprise is a fully, you know, we have two hired 138 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:40,680 help people that help with them, and we sublease those sheep, so they go out to solar grazing. 139 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:45,880 And it's like, okay, that enterprise is very profitable, it's sustaining itself, we can hire 140 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:51,880 out help, that makes sense. Where the farmers markets, and our drop sites, and stuff like that, 141 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:57,560 I was having to do all that. So I cannot delegate those tasks quite yet. So we see that, yep, that 142 00:11:57,560 --> 00:12:01,640 enterprise is the woman in the red dress, maybe it's time to get rid of that one. I was, so that's a 143 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:05,560 really good point, because I was wondering about the sheep, because I knew that was, I was, it was 144 00:12:05,560 --> 00:12:09,960 interesting to hear the kind of the decision making that went behind that, that that sounds like it was 145 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:16,600 something that you had to, it had to fit, but it's also new, but you want to make sure it's not that 146 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:22,440 woman in the red dress. Yeah, so we saw the sheep posted on a Facebook page, it was 800 and, I don't 147 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:27,480 know, 50 ewes or something, and we ran numbers, and we were like, okay, a week later, we got the sheep. 148 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:32,680 And the reason being is, Jordan and I do not believe in adding another enterprise to our farm, 149 00:12:32,680 --> 00:12:38,840 unless it is 100% sustaining itself, and it can be hired out. It just does not make sense for us 150 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:45,080 anymore to be expanding on a few things here or a few things there. It has to be fully profitable, 151 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:50,440 paying for that farm, paying for help, you know, because to expand, you need more labor force. 152 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:54,920 And so those sheep, we went with 800 of the ewes, we kind of called off 50 of them before we bought 153 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:59,800 them, so we went with 800 of them, and they just fit that farm like a glove. Now this year, it's like, 154 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:04,520 we've had so much rain, we could probably add cows in with those sheep, because we just have grass 155 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:10,520 coming out of our ears, but it fit the farm they're on, it can sustain itself, so we don't have to do 156 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:15,000 all of the labor ourselves, and so it just made sense. And that's a good point. We have had a 157 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:20,440 complete turnaround in the weather. We came off of at least three years of drought. Now we are 158 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:26,600 getting record-breaking rains. So that must be important, and I guess that's why it's so 159 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:31,960 important that you don't get invested in a lot of big-time infrastructure. Things can change, 160 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:37,880 you know, nature bats last, it has the last word, and so it could make sense to have all these sheep 161 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:43,400 or to add another enterprise in a year like this, but maybe next year, but and if you were invested 162 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:48,280 in an infrastructure where you had to push a certain number of animals through that, but this 163 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:53,240 way you can kind of flex a little bit from year to year, depending on what is the growing situation. 164 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:58,840 Yeah, and that's like the sheep too. We could have added more high-tensile wires to our existing 165 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:04,040 perimeter fence. Right now we have a three-wire perimeter fence, and it was like, do you do that, 166 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:09,560 or do you just buy some netting and run these sheep with netting and learn how the sheep graze? And 167 00:14:09,560 --> 00:14:14,280 so we decided to get the netting. Yeah, we're running, you know, 40 plus nets for the sheep, 168 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:19,320 but it makes sense because you're learning how they graze. We learned that sheep have a really, 169 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:24,040 really hard time right now going through our woods. It's just so thick and dense where goats are 170 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:29,240 really agile. They can jump on those logs, they can go through all that, and so we kind of use 171 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:33,720 the woods as a natural barrier for our sheep. A lot of times we really don't need a ton of fencing, 172 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:37,560 so it's like if we would have invested in that perimeter fencing, it probably wouldn't have made 173 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:42,280 sense, and not only that, but we'd eventually are hoping that the goats really clean up that 174 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:47,480 woodland so we can grow more grass and the sheep can go down there then. So being flexible that 175 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:52,360 way, it just, it really makes sense. So you mentioned the cow-calf operation didn't work out. 176 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:57,240 Tell me a little bit more about what decision-making went into that where you figured out this isn't 177 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:04,040 really fitting for us. Yeah, more so just running numbers. You know, your costs to keep them animals 178 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:08,680 over winter is just so high. Cows eat a lot of feed. You know, where sheep and goats, you can 179 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:15,480 utilize a lot of the woods and you can just handle more animals per acre than cows. Cows eat a lot. 180 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:20,840 They take a lot of care, and if you're just selling, so specifically we are a grass operation, 181 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:25,560 so we are calving on pasture, so we don't like to calve till end of April, beginning of May. Well, 182 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:30,040 then if you want to go sell them calves come fall, nobody wants them calves. They're too small. They 183 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:35,400 want big calves. So we're not even playing in the market anymore, and so you're not making the money 184 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:39,880 you should be off them calves because they're so much smaller than everybody else's, and so when 185 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:43,960 you're trying to play in that conventional market, you have to play the conventional market game. You 186 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:49,560 can't play the grass game. So that's where it made sense. We ran numbers and what we were making off 187 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:55,880 them calves, it didn't make sense. We made way more money off of sheep. Well, that's really impressive 188 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:59,480 because right now it is tempting to get into the cow-calf market because it's pretty good, 189 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:06,680 but if it's not working for you, it doesn't matter how good the prices are. It's not working for your 190 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:11,640 particular setup. I truly believe even though the cow prices are so high, I mean we just took a 191 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:16,120 Holstein. She was a milk cow. She was a call cow. We got a dollar forty-four a hundred weight. That 192 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:21,480 is a lot, but she's playing in the conventional market. She's a conventional cow. When you're 193 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:26,120 talking grass cows, they're smaller animals, smaller framed because you want to be able to 194 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:30,440 have them utilize that grass. You want to be able to push them through the winter and not have to 195 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:34,760 use hay. You're not competing on the conventional market. You're competing on a whole different 196 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:39,880 market. So unless you can direct market those calves somewhere else, that's when it makes sense, 197 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:44,600 and we just found that we couldn't play in the conventional market here. One thing I was wondering, 198 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:54,280 so you own this farm. How many acres is here? The dairy is probably about 400. 400. But you rent 199 00:16:54,280 --> 00:17:00,600 a fair amount. How many acres are you renting now? It's probably, so just what we're grazing right now 200 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:07,000 is about 700 acres. It's worked out nice for you as far as getting access to land because 201 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:13,640 it's pretty rugged acres. It's not prime corn, soybean ground, and so it's good for grazing and 202 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:18,120 good, particularly with using the goats to kind of bring back some of this land that's pretty 203 00:17:18,120 --> 00:17:23,320 marginal, that type of thing. That must really play into this three-legged stool in that you're 204 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:27,800 renting some of these acres because you're renting it and you aren't owning all of it. 205 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:32,440 That must give you a little bit of flexibility as far as you can pencil the numbers your year and go, 206 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:35,640 well, you know, I don't know if you're thinking about this, but maybe we need to let go of some 207 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:40,760 of these acres or maybe we rent a different something that's lower price, that kind of thing. 208 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:46,760 Yeah, so in our area it's challenging to get cheaper land value for rent. The farm we're renting, 209 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:53,080 it is a little undervalued because it is, you know, it's 300 acres of woods and so it's, it runs a 210 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:58,840 mile north and west and a mile or a mile north and south, a mile east and west, and it is covered 211 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:03,560 in woods. It's very thick brush and then a lot of the pastures are overgrown too. That's challenging 212 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:09,400 and I will say having different land access just makes sense. You know, I wouldn't say it's kind of 213 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:12,760 the same thing we talked about, like that's permanent infrastructure. You don't necessarily 214 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:17,320 have to go buy a farm. However, I do think in today's market it is going to get even more 215 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:22,680 challenging to buy land. I think these next couple years the way land prices have been continuing to 216 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:28,280 climb, I hate to say it, but I think when my kids are trying to buy land it might be like it, it 217 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:33,080 might be hard to pay for a farm. Yeah, yeah, so that is, it does get, that's part of that flexibility 218 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:38,920 and not being invested in this solid, sunk in the ground kind of infrastructure where you're like, 219 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:44,280 oh we just paid this amount of money for this land, we're going to have to get, we better raise 220 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:50,600 corn on that and get that assured, you know, system through that. That's one thing that we really run 221 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:56,360 numbers hard, hard, hard, hard. You have to if you want to be able to either buy farms or know what 222 00:18:56,360 --> 00:19:00,360 enterprises to add, know what infrastructure to add, because if you're not running true numbers, 223 00:19:00,360 --> 00:19:05,080 and true numbers, I'm saying like you need to pay yourself for working, you know, you need to make 224 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:09,000 sure you have insurance figured in there, even death loss, you know, you have to figure a 30% 225 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:12,760 death loss, because if you don't figure those numbers in there, you won't come out in the end. 226 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:17,480 So that's one thing that we found is very important, is running your numbers ahead of time. 227 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:22,680 What's your market for your sheep? Right now we're selling you lambs, and then, so we're actually 228 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:26,920 making extra income off of them because we're doing some solar grazing jobs. So we're subleasing 229 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:31,160 these sheep, people are coming in subleasing the sheep, going and doing some solar grazing jobs, 230 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:36,840 so we're making some income off of that. And then I'm assuming we'll sell quite a few you lambs, 231 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:42,280 quite a few ram lambs, and then we'll keep some obviously back for replacements. And then any ram 232 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:47,880 lambs that we don't sell, we'll just go to either one of the local markets. We haven't quite ran 233 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:52,760 numbers if it makes sense to, because we have so many we could maybe ship a semi-load, if that makes 234 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:57,960 sense. So we'll see where we're kind of at and what makes most sense. The sales barn here, I don't 235 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:01,240 know that they could handle that many lambs at a time. We'd have to bring them in smaller groups. 236 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:06,760 You know, just going back a little bit to the renting some of this land that maybe is marginal, 237 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:11,160 all that. One of the things that I've always been impressed with, because you focus, you folks focus 238 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:15,800 so much on soil health, and you're using things like goats. Like I know one thing Jordan talked to 239 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:21,640 me about once was the goats kind of transport biology from the woods into the grazing paddocks, 240 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:27,240 into the more open land. So you're adding value to that land. That's really critical to think 241 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:35,560 about the adding value to land that is not maybe top crop ground to look at, but is you're improving 242 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:41,400 it. And it is part of that, it's maybe a lower investment in that infrastructure at the beginning, 243 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:46,440 but you're over time adding value to it. Yeah, so like that rented farm, you know, like I said, 244 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:52,360 we carried 50 more animal units on a drought year. And so now this year, it's like, man, we could 245 00:20:52,360 --> 00:20:57,960 probably raise that 50 plus more animal units from that number. You know, so it's like, just being 246 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:02,680 able to have more grass, house more animals, you're making more money, you have a better return on 247 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:07,400 investment. That's what makes sense. Just keep an eye out for that woman with the red dress. That's 248 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:15,400 all I say. Yes, exactly. Exactly. Any just general advice for someone who is looking at getting into 249 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:22,200 grazing and yeah, in any of this kind of regenerative grazing, adaptive grazing, and maybe 250 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:28,600 they're interested in adding direct marketing, whatever, you know, but just those first steps so 251 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:33,320 you don't get in over your head before you even get launched out of the launch pad. Okay, 252 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:37,960 it'll be two things. One, you just got to start. You can watch all the YouTube videos. You can talk 253 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:42,120 to all the farmers you want. You can look at this way and that way. You just got to do it because 254 00:21:42,120 --> 00:21:46,440 your farm is different. You just got to start. You just got to try something and do it. Second thing, 255 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:53,800 you got to find a mentor or a friend, someone else that is at your next level, right? What you want 256 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:57,480 to be doing in five, 10 years, because that's the person you're going to look up to and that's the 257 00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:01,160 person you're going to push and strive for. They say, I don't know what the statistic is, but you're 258 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:06,200 like the top five people you hang out with, that's who you are. So we always try to be connecting 259 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:11,240 with other farmers who are doing more, you know, that push us to our limits because then we try 260 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:15,560 new things. So if you can have a good connection of people, buddies that you call up or whatever, 261 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:20,280 friends, that is how you really grow. It's good to see there is a method to the madness that you 262 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:25,960 are thinking about this. Oh, a hundred percent. If there wasn't, you could run yourself to the 263 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:31,560 ground. You could. And we've learned over time as farmers, like you think you just need to work more 264 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:35,960 hours, like, you know, and that's just the mentality that a lot of farmers have. That's, 265 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:40,520 you kind of got to overcome that. Otherwise, like I said, you have one life. You don't have to 266 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:45,080 work yourself to death. You don't have to work hard. You have to work smarter. You really do. 267 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:49,640 And if you want to be here and you want your farm to be here for your kids or the next generation, 268 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:54,600 you got to start thinking outside the box. So there is a little bit of method to our madness. 269 00:22:54,600 --> 00:23:00,600 And, you know, we make mistakes too. We've learned, like I said, we are dropping enterprises, 270 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:04,360 you know, we don't do turkeys anymore. We used to do turkeys, you know, like we used to do laying 271 00:23:04,360 --> 00:23:07,960 hands. We used to have 350 laying hands. We don't have laying hands anymore because they just don't 272 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:12,760 make sense. You got to run the enterprises that you can grow profitably and sustainably. 273 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:27,240 For more on building soil health profitably and sustainable business planning, 274 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:33,240 see the podcast page for Ear to the Ground episode 342 at landstrewitshipproject.org. 275 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:39,400 If you have comments or suggestions about this podcast, contact Brian DeVore at bdevor 276 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:48,200 at landstrewitshipproject.org or you can call 612-816-9342. By the way, it helps us greatly 277 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:52,200 if you can give Ear to the Ground a rating on whatever podcast platform you utilize. 278 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:57,080 And word of mouth is the best way to spread the news about our podcast. 279 00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:01,400 If you like what you hear, tell at least one person about LSP's Ear to the Ground. 280 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:05,960 Thanks to Laura Borgendahl, a Western Minnesota musician, for Ear to the Ground's theme music. 281 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:11,320 And a special thank you to all of Land Stewardship Project's members who make initiatives such as 282 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:17,080 this podcast possible. If you're not a member, visit landstrewitshipproject.org to learn how 283 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:31,960 you can support LSP. Thanks for listening!