1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,800 You know when I talk about rural economic developments, from my perspective you look at things like 2 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:10,000 putting the culture back in agriculture, right, and part of that is local foods and local food 3 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:14,720 traditions that exist, and then it's also the other big piece of that, I mean it's arts, it's the arts 4 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:19,120 and music piece. It's the things that attract people to a community and make them want to stay 5 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:34,960 and make them want to put down roots. Welcome to the 347th installment of Ear to the Ground, 6 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:39,440 the Land Stewardship Project's podcast on family farming, regenerative agriculture, 7 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:45,200 community food systems, and local democracy. I'm Brian DeVore, editor of the Land Stewardship Letter. 8 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:50,160 Before you know where you're headed, you need to figure out where you're at. During the past few 9 00:00:50,160 --> 00:00:55,520 years, I've spent a fair amount of time staring at large sheets of paper taped to walls in western 10 00:00:55,520 --> 00:01:01,200 Minnesota community centers and other venues. These sheets of paper document what assets local 11 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:06,720 communities possess in order to develop food systems that feed local people while supporting 12 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:12,400 local farms and other business enterprises. The information populating these community food asset 13 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:18,160 maps has been provided by farmers, small business owners, and local government officials, among 14 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:23,920 others. These people were invited to supply that data by the Land Stewardship Project, which during 15 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:29,040 the past few years has been busy launching a community food systems initiative in the upper 16 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:34,320 Minnesota River Valley. When taken as a whole, what's striking about these asset maps is how many 17 00:01:34,320 --> 00:01:39,520 so-called community food resources are already present in the region. There are grain and meat 18 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:45,440 processing facilities, commercial kitchens, aggregation warehouses, and cold storage spaces, 19 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:51,600 as well as grocery stores, schools, and restaurants willing to provide locally produced meat, dairy 20 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:56,560 products, fruit, and vegetables to eaters. But all these dots on the map are a little like disparate 21 00:01:56,560 --> 00:02:01,280 community food islands floating in a sea of commodified corn and soybeans. What's become 22 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:06,480 clear to LSP and our allies in this work is that in order to create what food system analysts can 23 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:11,920 meter calls a community food web, connections need to be made between these isolated islands. 24 00:02:11,920 --> 00:02:17,200 For example, we need to figure out how to efficiently haul all that meat or produce from 25 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:21,600 all those local farms to the grocery stores, schools, restaurants, and individual eaters who 26 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:27,040 want that food. That's why LSP has been following up those asset mapping sessions with meetings where 27 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:31,760 farmers can connect with other links in the food chain. LSP organizers have also been working with 28 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:37,200 allied organizations, local businesses, and local governments to brainstorm ways to make the best 29 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:42,320 use of the food assets already present and to determine what can be done to fill in the missing 30 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:47,360 pieces. One of the people who's been doing this work is Scott Demuth, a food systems organizer for 31 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:54,080 LSP who lives in Granite Falls, a town of around 2,700 people that sits on the Minnesota River 32 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:58,560 in the western part of the state. On a recent summer evening, Scott and I got together to talk 33 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:03,680 about LSP's food systems work. While nighthawks circled overhead and trains hauling commodities 34 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:08,720 boomed through town, Scott talked about what the community asset mapping project revealed and some 35 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:15,040 of the ripple effects, economic as well as social, that can occur in a community when it focuses on 36 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:21,520 building a food system not based on exporting raw commodities. He also shared how, as a resident of 37 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:27,440 the area, building a thriving food and farm system hits him on a personal level. So Scott, 38 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:31,120 we were talking the other day and you were talking a little bit about some of the local, 39 00:03:31,920 --> 00:03:37,280 the food systems work that LSP is doing and it's something that we've kind of relaunched in the last 40 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:42,720 couple of years here in western Minnesota, kind of in the upper Minnesota River Valley. 41 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:50,160 And one of the things that I think is really interesting and really useful is the one of 42 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:56,080 the ways you kind of started out relaunching some of this work was you did something called 43 00:03:56,080 --> 00:04:01,520 community food asset mapping. I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about that and one of 44 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:05,840 the things that I think tied in really nicely with that was I think he worked with Ken Meader, 45 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:12,480 who's a food systems analyst and I've talked to him quite a bit. And he really, to kind of set the 46 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:17,600 stage, he, and you know, correct me if I'm wrong in this, but he kind of did an analysis of what 47 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:23,920 economic value would we be getting if, for example, we just bought a certain percentage of food 48 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:30,000 locally. It doesn't take 100% of the food to be local or whatever. It was like a pretty outsized 49 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:35,440 impact of just whatever. And I don't know if you can remember some of those statistics or some of 50 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:39,040 those numbers, but I was really struck by that and I was wondering if you could talk a little bit 51 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:43,680 about that. Yeah, so yeah, when we started this project, I mean we, I mean we actually started 52 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:49,920 right shortly after the pandemic, stuff, you know, started reopening. And so, you know, 53 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:55,360 we kind of started initially with, you know, interviewing members and doing some community 54 00:04:55,360 --> 00:05:01,440 listening sessions. And a lot of that was really just to, you know, hear from members and folks in 55 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:06,960 the community about what they wanted to see. And so, yeah, I think the thing that, you know, with 56 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:13,120 that Ken Meader really brings to the table with this too is around community food webs and this 57 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:20,240 idea of not just the economic value, but also just the social values that also go along with 58 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:26,720 local foods. You know, the analogy I like to kind of point out a lot locally at least is, you know, 59 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:32,880 I first moved rurally from Minneapolis, you know, I was getting, I think getting my oil changed and 60 00:05:33,840 --> 00:05:39,200 I was getting it done locally. It was probably, geez, probably 15 bucks more than if I just like 61 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:45,200 went to one of the near towns, Marshall or Wilmer. And so it's like, why don't I just go there? But 62 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:50,400 kind of just like dig into this idea of like why, you know, why do people pay more for the local 63 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:55,760 service and talking with people about it. And a lot of it's, you know, people are paying what they 64 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:59,120 want to see around here. I mean, one, they're supporting their neighbors. I mean, that's a big 65 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:03,520 part of it. But it's also something that they want to have. They want the convenience of having it 66 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:10,400 here in town versus having to drive 30, 45 minutes to go get your oil changed and to get other car 67 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:14,880 services. So it's not just about the oil change. It's also having, you know, someone who can repair 68 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:19,760 your car, having all these other services here in town. And yeah, you pay a little bit more for it, 69 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:23,840 but that's also someone who's your neighbor. Their kids, you know, are going to the same school as 70 00:06:23,840 --> 00:06:31,120 your kids. Just fascinating to me that that same idea hasn't quite translated over to food yet. 71 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:36,800 Yeah. After the pandemic, I think that's when people have started to think about that a little 72 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:41,760 bit more. It's just a little bit more immediate. I mean, I think it was the first time many Americans 73 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:48,720 experienced things like going to the store and not having particular items available, not just 74 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:54,480 because they weren't in stock, but because it might not be in stock again, right? With, you know, some 75 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:59,600 of the shutdowns that happened and supply chain issues, people started, I think, just taking it 76 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:03,840 a little more seriously about where their food is coming from. And that's kind of where that stuff 77 00:07:03,840 --> 00:07:08,240 started from was for us, at least when it comes to local foods, I think there's a lot of pieces 78 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:13,920 that are just part of our LSP values, you know, soil health, having and supporting more farmers 79 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:18,560 on the land. But I think there's this other big piece of our mission that's also about building 80 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:25,680 strong rural communities and local foods are such a big part of that. And yeah, the Ken Meader 81 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:29,840 piece too, that goes along with that is, I mean, he did, I don't know the exact numbers, I might get 82 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:35,680 this wrong, but he did some math and looked at just our population out here. And if every person 83 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:41,120 was spending $5 a week on local foods, I think the impact was somewhere around, I want to say, 84 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:50,720 $50 million just by that alone, which that's a huge economic impact for a region, just with a pretty 85 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:57,680 small lifestyle change. And we're also in an interesting time where you have food prices are 86 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:03,920 rising for everyone. And I don't know if it's always going to stay this way. But we're in this kind of 87 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:11,920 interesting moment where local foods, at times are pretty competitive price wise with other products 88 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:17,440 that are out there. I know for local milk right now, it's pretty comparable gallon to gallon 89 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:22,080 compared to buying it off the shelves. And that's not true for everywhere. I mean, it's, you know, 90 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:26,400 there's a lot of things baked into that. But just, yeah, it's an interesting moment to be in 91 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:33,360 the local food scene and to have this program be starting up at that time. So yeah, that's that 92 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:40,240 whole outsized impact of like you said, just $5 a week could produce this incredible kind of ripple 93 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:48,640 effect in the economy. I find that really striking in that like, so instead of chasing big CAFOs 94 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:53,920 and methane digesters, this is really what we should be chasing is some of these kind of changes 95 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:59,440 in the local food system. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, the, you know, I think it's the dollar 96 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:04,400 impact of that. It's also just the community impact. You look at the amount of money and tax 97 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:09,520 breaks that go into some of these projects and, you know, the jobs that you're creating, you know, 98 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:14,160 it's not that significant when you look at the number of people that are actually being employed 99 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:17,440 versus when we're talking about local foods, right? We're talking about this idea of even 100 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:23,760 just more farmers on the land. And, you know, the impact of that isn't just purchasing food from a 101 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:28,080 local farmer. I mean, there's a lot that's baked into that. And the multiplier of that, you know, 102 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:34,480 those dollars that you spend with a local producer circulate in your community. You know, so many more 103 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:39,440 times that the economic impact is like for every dollar is spent, it has the economic impact of 104 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:45,120 another dollar and 60 cents versus, you know, you go spend that dollar at, let's say a Walmart, maybe 105 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:52,240 50 cents is being returned back to the community because the rest is going to suppliers and 106 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:56,800 transportation and stuff and shareholders. I mean, you look at Wall Street's investment 107 00:09:56,800 --> 00:10:00,720 and most of that money is going to shareholders. Yeah. You know, it's in, then when we talk about 108 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:06,000 those producers on the land too, it's not just that it's also oftentimes we have people who are 109 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:10,960 starting families. We have their children and those children are then going into schools. 110 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:16,400 So then you have more need for teachers in our communities, which is creating more jobs. You have 111 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:21,200 those people then going and buying supplies locally and spending their money locally. 112 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:26,480 So it's not, I wouldn't say a magic bullet, but it's interesting the way in which 113 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:33,600 investing in local food has this trickle effect that solves a lot of the issues or addresses a 114 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:38,080 lot of the issues that rural communities are facing in terms of economic development, 115 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:42,960 you know, with the quote unquote brain drain or the flight of young people from rural communities. 116 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:47,600 Yeah. It seems to address a number of those, even if it doesn't solve all of it. 117 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:52,800 Yeah. Well, and it's, it's a little bit the commodity system, the corn, soybean system, 118 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:59,120 the row crop commodity system that dominates, and even the large scale livestock system that dominates. 119 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:03,200 There's a lot of sound and fury there. It's really impressive to look at the figures 120 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:08,960 and say, look, this is how, look at this economic impact it's having. But when you look at the 121 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:13,600 community, that wealth is not being retained locally. So it's, it's going somewhere else. 122 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:17,680 It's going out on the, in the train cars and in the, in the semi trucks and all that. 123 00:11:17,680 --> 00:11:22,000 Yeah. And you look at, you know, even just the amount of inputs that go into those, 124 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:26,400 those commodities and where those inputs are coming from. And they're coming from oftentimes 125 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:32,560 large multinational corporations. So those dollars that you're spending on fertilizer, 126 00:11:32,560 --> 00:11:35,520 nitrogen, et cetera. Yeah. Some of those dollars are being retained in the community, 127 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:39,760 but the rest of it, they're going elsewhere and they're going to these, you know, investors 128 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:44,480 in giant companies that aren't in the local community. And then, yeah, you're dumping tons 129 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:50,480 of nitrogen that then just gets flushed down the river. So, and the thing I like to point out too, 130 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:54,560 because the thing that, you know, when we talk about these economic pieces too is, you know, 131 00:11:54,560 --> 00:12:02,960 local foods right now, outside of farm to school, isn't subsidized really versus many of these 132 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:08,160 commodity crops. You have subsidies going into insurance programs and into, you know, 133 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:11,440 you just have a lot of these subsidies going into these programs, right? So that, 134 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:17,120 and that doesn't exist for local foods at the moment outside of farm to school. And so, 135 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:22,320 you know, even to talk about these, we really are kind of talking apples to oranges when it comes to 136 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:28,320 two, really just two different types of food systems. So tell me a little bit about community 137 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:33,760 food asset mapping. What does that consist of and what is it that you've, what are you looking for 138 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:40,080 and what have you discovered in this area here? So when we started that out here, part of what 139 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:44,080 we were trying to identify was, I mean, mostly, you know, like I mentioned, we had done these 140 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:50,240 interviews and a lot of what we had been hearing from folks was, you know, there isn't a local 141 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:54,800 foods movement. There used to be a really robust one and now there isn't one. There isn't a local 142 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:58,720 foods network. And we kept hearing all these little pieces of like things that used to exist 143 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:04,160 or that might be here. This person might have some equipment or this person might have a mill, 144 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:10,160 but that was just me doing interviews with people. And so meanwhile, I'm in this very privileged 145 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:15,840 position to be able to hear from 30 plus people about all the exciting things that they individually 146 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:21,440 are doing around local foods. And I'm hearing all these different opportunities individually. 147 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:27,520 And so a lot of the asset mapping really, I mean, the asset map itself was like the end product, 148 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:33,600 but like what really came out of it was bringing people together in these different communities 149 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:39,600 and in different towns, having them come together and have some of those conversations together. So 150 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:44,400 what, what are the cool things that people are doing in terms of local foods? What are the farms 151 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:49,040 that they're buying food from? Where, you know, what, what equipment do they know about? Where are 152 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:53,920 the buildings that are empty and not being utilized in the communities? And what are the ideas that 153 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:58,720 people have for those? It was really just hosting some of these sessions that, yeah, we were trying 154 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:03,760 to literally just create a map. We, you know, we draw a map on the wall and people are putting 155 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:08,880 post-its on it to kind of identify these assets. So that's what we're creating. But through that, 156 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:13,440 we're also just, we're trying to create and facilitate connections between people and trying 157 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:17,520 to get some ideas going. It's like two shifts passing in the night. There's all these great 158 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:21,680 things going on, but they're not communicating. I remember going to a couple of those meetings 159 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:26,080 where the postal notes have been put on the walls. I'm like, wow, when you look at that, 160 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:31,120 you know, you see the, I guess the trees for the forest or whatever. It's like pretty impressive. 161 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:35,520 Yeah. I mean, you, you see where the opportunity is. I mean, for us, you know, the, the nice thing 162 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:41,120 about it too, is we, you know, we had some folks in, in, in the sessions too, where we 163 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:46,320 got to hear about some history and about things that used to be there. And, you know, we also had 164 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:50,080 a couple of sessions where, you know, we had producers there with people who were looking 165 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:54,800 to buy local food and they were able to connect. I mean, they even just really, you know, it wasn't 166 00:14:54,800 --> 00:15:00,560 anything grand in terms of infrastructure, but just those kind of connections of building community. 167 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:04,160 Because I think out here, particularly one of the things that we've been hearing from folks 168 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:09,680 is when folks move out here, it's, you know, where do I go? Where do I go to find local foods? And, 169 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:15,600 and we don't really, at this moment, we, we, we haven't had a, a resource guide. We haven't had, 170 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:19,920 you know, some of the things that used to exist in terms of pride of the prairie and the local 171 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:24,400 food guides. We haven't really had those outside of, I think the only thing that would be the 172 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:29,360 equivalent to that would be the Minnesota grown directory would probably be the, the closest thing 173 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:34,640 that someone could find to, to identify in local foods. So yeah, just trying to create, yeah, just 174 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:41,200 something that was really locally specific to this region of food infrastructure. It was all 175 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:46,240 those other things beyond just farms, but also what, what, you know, where do people buy food from? 176 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:51,120 Where, you know, what are the equipment pieces that they know about, or even just some of these 177 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:56,160 empty buildings? Yeah, that there's just interesting conversations that people have had about what could 178 00:15:56,160 --> 00:16:01,360 potentially be there and, you know, what could they see being in those spaces? Yeah. So it's like, 179 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:05,840 there's all these dots out there, but there isn't the lines connecting the dots. Right. And I guess 180 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:11,680 that's the role that organization like LSP and some of these other groups can play is just literally 181 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:16,800 just simply bringing people together into the same room and they go, oh, you're doing that. Oh, and I 182 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:20,960 actually need this processed and you have the processing or you have the transportation kind 183 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:25,360 of thing. Is that something you kind of saw? Oh yeah. I mean, we, we heard that pretty early on too, 184 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:30,640 from a lot of folks was when we asked kind of what, what role shall LSP play in the food system out 185 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:36,000 here, it was bringing people together. I mean, that was, I think we heard that from producers, 186 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:40,160 economic development organizations. I mean, we just heard that was the biggest thing. I mean, 187 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:46,480 the biggest need. And it's something I think at LSP we do fairly well, is bringing people together. 188 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:51,520 So, but yeah, I think that's the one piece that, you know, when I've had conversations with folks 189 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:55,520 from other parts of the state or just in other towns that are interested in this is, I mean, 190 00:16:55,520 --> 00:17:00,400 I think that's the part that's the most replicable of this is it doesn't really take much in terms 191 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:06,080 of experts to, to host something like this. What you really need though, are the people and, 192 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:11,440 and getting the people to the table. And I think, you know, we have the members in this region and 193 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:17,840 some history that we can reach out to people and know that there's going to be 15, 20 people that 194 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:21,840 are going to show up. And I think that's going to be the hardest part for folks if you're starting 195 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:27,840 from scratch or in a community where nothing like this exists right now. So. Is part of this too, 196 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:31,840 educating the general public, the eaters out there, the people that have to buy this food, 197 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:37,920 that they're like, oh, this is being raised in, in my community because it's been so long since 198 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:41,920 the community had to be self-sufficient that maybe they aren't, they aren't aware of what can be 199 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:49,600 raised and what is available. Yeah. We haven't really gone full blown on kind of general public 200 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:53,920 narrative or messaging at this point. I mean, we've done the food forum, which is like open to anyone 201 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:59,280 in the community to come to. And we've, that's the big event that we really do flyer a lot for and 202 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:05,280 get people to come out for. But a lot of our work right now is primarily with producers. And then 203 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:10,160 we've been actually focusing on institutions in our region. Again, I mentioned farm to school. I 204 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:14,640 think that's like, it's one of the things we've heard from a lot of producers about where we 205 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:19,360 should be focusing our energy right now is trying to, to build those relationships with those 206 00:18:19,360 --> 00:18:24,880 institutions. And also with, you know, out here, it's there's hospitals and then also food shelves. 207 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:29,600 And so I think those are kind of three sort of institutions that we've really been focusing on 208 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:35,440 kind of the thought process. I think for us a little bit too, is by going for some of these 209 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:42,720 bigger wholesale markets as we have to create some infrastructure and coordination among producers 210 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:47,920 and in terms of aggregation and distribution to be able to, to, to meet the needs of those markets. 211 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:52,720 And by doing that, we're also creating a lot of the same infrastructure that would also allow 212 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:58,000 producers to sell to kind of more retail outlets, like grocery stores. And so it, it just rather 213 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:03,360 than having to find a hundred customers in a community to kind of meet that need, you have 214 00:19:03,360 --> 00:19:09,120 one customer, which is the school district. And so that's kind of been our approach at the moment 215 00:19:09,120 --> 00:19:15,600 is, is going for those and then, you know, really with the farm to school piece too, working with, 216 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:19,520 you know, ship coordinators and working with the schools. There's also a lot of messaging that can 217 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:24,560 go through that way too, in terms of food and where food comes from. So that's kind of been our 218 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:29,680 approach. Yeah. Yeah. So a lot of this is just facilities, like is there a commercial kitchen? 219 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:35,440 Is there a way to process the food? Transportation issue, the aggregation seems like another big, 220 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:39,840 I mean, those are some of the big challenges that people are facing. Yeah. I mean, you know, 221 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:45,440 when you look at costs, I think distribution is a big one for, for folks and, and having the volume 222 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:51,760 of sale needed to really make those costs or make the transportation costs worth it. And so part of 223 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:56,320 the asset mapping was identifying a lot of the things like commercial kitchens in our region, 224 00:19:56,320 --> 00:20:03,840 as well as refrigeration space. And, you know, we don't have a lot of open, usable refrigeration 225 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:08,880 space. We have a lot of communications. We have a lot of commercial kitchens that people could be 226 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:16,000 using, but the, yeah, the biggest one has been refrigeration outside of on-farm storage that 227 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:20,720 some folks have. And so that's been one area that we've been looking at projects like the Madison 228 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:26,240 Mercantile, for example, is taking this old Mercantile building, just huge square footage 229 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:31,680 and creating, you know, multiple incubation spaces in it, but also looking at converting part of that 230 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:37,840 into cold storage that producers could use. And that could be a potential spot for, for both storage, 231 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:42,720 but also for transportation as part of like this transportation network as well. So I guess this 232 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:49,760 could be a particular challenge, but maybe it's a asset too, in that you don't have the luxury here 233 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:54,560 of being close to say the Twin Cities or another metropolitan area where that can be your market. 234 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:58,560 And you can say, well, we'll just produce for that urban or suburban market. You're a good two and 235 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:04,880 a half hours, at least away here, at least in this area right here from the Twin Cities. So that's 236 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:09,520 not super viable. There are some people who transport all the way there, but they would have 237 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:14,400 to have quite a bit of quantity to do that. So yeah, I was wondering, is that a little, 238 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:19,840 I would figure that that's a challenge, but also maybe it's an incentive to become a little bit more 239 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:25,040 self-sufficient in the area. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think that's, you know, we're kind of in a 240 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:30,560 really interesting sweet spot, I guess, in some ways where if folks, you know, there are multiple 241 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:35,200 producers that are selling into the cities and it is two and a half hours. So you can definitely 242 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:40,400 have that as part of your sales strategy, but we're also far enough away where it's not the 243 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:47,440 sole focus for producers. And we also have a lot of producers and folks just generally in the area 244 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:53,840 that have a pretty strong commitment to just this region in general. I think that's the other kind 245 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:57,440 of advantage that we have. Things like, you know, the Upper Minnesota Valley Regional Development 246 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:04,480 Commission, it's kind of a five county economic development agency and they've actually invested 247 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:10,960 a ton in this region and around just trying to attract people to moving to this area and to 248 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:16,640 putting out roots out here by promoting jobs and recreation that are out here. But also they've 249 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:21,680 been one of the folks behind the Meander Art Crawl. So investing in culture and arts in the region. 250 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:25,360 I mean, we're here right now in Granite Falls. I mean, Granite Falls is another really good 251 00:22:25,360 --> 00:22:30,400 example of a community that has invested a ton in local arts. And what you've seen as a result of 252 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:36,400 that is a pretty vibrant downtown compared to a lot of other communities of this size. I mean, 253 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:42,800 this is a population of 2000 people and you have a brew pub, you have two different art buildings, 254 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:49,920 you have, we have a local barber shop and we have a really, really awesome bakery owned by a local 255 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:56,480 farm family, Carl's Bakery owned by the Striblo Farm Family. So, you know, all those things on 256 00:22:56,480 --> 00:23:02,560 their own, I don't know if any one of those would be able to succeed as well as they do without each 257 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:08,640 other and to also have this really vibrant arts community built up around this. You know, when I 258 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:13,440 talk about rural economic developments, from my perspective, you look at things like putting the 259 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:19,920 culture back in agriculture, right? And part of that is foods and food traditions. It's about 260 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:24,560 local foods and local food traditions that exist. And then it's also the other big piece of that. 261 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:30,160 I mean, it's arts, it's the arts and music piece. It's the things that attract people to a community 262 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:34,480 and make them want to stay and make them want to put down roots. Going through this process, 263 00:23:35,120 --> 00:23:39,040 was there anything that super surprised you that you were like, you know, you probably had some 264 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:43,200 assumptions coming in, but was there anything that really surprised you going through the asset 265 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:46,880 mapping and having the meetings and talking to folks? I think the biggest thing for me, 266 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:54,000 when I think about what surprised me, it should have been really obvious, you know, in retrospect, 267 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,920 but, you know, it's another thing, just kind of one about the geography of this area. I mean, 268 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:02,800 there's, we're talking about the Upper Minnesota River Valley, and there's this five county region, 269 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:08,800 but we have multiple agencies all working out here on local foods, and we haven't been really 270 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:13,440 coordinated or talking with each other. So that, I mean, that surprised me that they're just due to 271 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:18,160 staff transitions and whatever else, we just, for a good four or five period, you know, five year 272 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:22,480 period, there just was not much coordination happening. It's not just the farmers that aren't 273 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:28,160 coordinated. It's the organizations and agencies and that type of thing. Exactly. You know, and 274 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:32,320 it's a challenging thing because, you know, everyone has their own work plan, has their own 275 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:36,320 projects that they're trying to move forward. But we have this unique opportunity, again, 276 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:42,240 out in our region where we have multiple agencies working over a similar shared geography. So when 277 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:47,360 I talk about those five counties of the RDC, the Upper Minnesota Valley Regional Development 278 00:24:47,360 --> 00:24:52,480 Commission, it's also the same five counties that the SHIP program out here, Countryside Public 279 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:57,600 Health, has SHIP coordinators, so Statewide Health Improvement Program. And so it's, you know, 280 00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:01,760 focused on nutrition, kind of those kind of programs, again, operating on those same five 281 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:07,680 counties. And then we have Prairie Five, which is another agency that is, you know, doing multiple 282 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:13,600 things. They're doing transportation out here. They're doing senior meals. They're helping with 283 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:17,920 food shelves. But they're also operating around those same five counties. And then there's us, 284 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:24,160 LSP, you know, our geography for this local foods work has started with those same five counties. 285 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:29,120 And so, yeah, I think for me, it was kind of surprising, one, just that we, you know, one, 286 00:25:29,120 --> 00:25:34,560 hadn't been coordinating. And then two, also just learning about the awesome work each of these 287 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:40,800 agencies are doing around local foods. And part of our work then over the last year or so has been 288 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:46,560 really trying to figure out how do we coordinate our efforts and really work on them together. 289 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:52,800 And so Farm to School has been a current one that we're all currently lined up on. And yeah, 290 00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:56,400 there's some really exciting projects that hopefully we'll be able to talk about in the future 291 00:25:56,400 --> 00:26:02,080 as a result of that. Yeah, well, speaking of future, I guess what are the next steps? And is 292 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:08,640 there some one or two things that you're seeing that like, oh, okay, if we could get this mechanism 293 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:14,640 in motion, this would really help us move forward on some, some kind of taking this beyond just the 294 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:20,800 mapping and figuring out what we have and kind of really adding to this. Yeah, we've been working 295 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:26,000 with RSTP, Southwest RSTP. So that's the Regional Sustainable Development Partnership. And they're 296 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:32,320 out of the University of Minnesota extension. So we actually partnered with them on that asset 297 00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:37,200 mapping project. So they were pretty instrumental with that. We had a grad student, Tara Conway, 298 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:43,040 who is one of the other folks that really helped with that work. And so we've been lucky to really 299 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:48,560 be working with them both on the asset mapping project, but now kind of on this next phase of a 300 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:54,160 kind of implementation of this. And so we're really focusing kind of right now on Farm to School. And 301 00:26:54,160 --> 00:27:00,480 so we're going to be coordinating with some of these agencies on a kind of multi-pronged project. 302 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:05,040 I mean, part really, we're looking at some data around Farm to School in the region. But really, 303 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:12,160 what we're looking to do is we're trying to set up a list of what are 10 to 20 products that local 304 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:20,000 producers can produce that would be fairly competitive price wise with things that the 305 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:25,760 school's already purchasing from other food services. And we're also looking for those same 306 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:31,840 10 to 20 products. We're looking ones that are price competitive, but also require similar levels 307 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:36,400 of processing. Right now, they're buying bags of lettuce off a truck. So it probably doesn't make 308 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:41,680 sense for us to be promoting lettuce that is going to get chopped and washed and all these other 309 00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:45,600 things that food service folks who are already strapped for time and staff aren't going to be 310 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:51,760 able to do. But right now, if they're having to take a box full of carrots, wash them, cut them, 311 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:56,560 roast them, that might be a product that would be a pretty good fit because it's going to come in the 312 00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:00,560 same way from a producer as it's going to come from these food services. So that's kind of our next 313 00:28:01,360 --> 00:28:06,080 phase of our project is trying to identify some of those products for school districts in our region, 314 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:13,600 do some relationship building with those directors. And also a big project we did at the food forum, 315 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:18,880 but we're going to be continuing to do is we're really just doing producer and buyer matchmaking. 316 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:23,840 So looking at some of these more institutional wholesale buyers in our region, trying to identify 317 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:28,640 products that they are looking to purchase and basically working with producers in our region 318 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:33,920 to identify what are they growing and trying to help match those up a little bit. So doing a little 319 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:38,160 bit of coordination. So that's, you know, over the next year, that's kind of one of the projects 320 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:44,160 we're working on. And yeah, in terms of like the kind of, I don't know, not quite quick fix, 321 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:50,320 but what's the, what was the question? It was a mechanism. Yeah. Yeah. Transportation, I feel like 322 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:57,440 is one that I've heard from a couple producers is a really big just logjam right now. Yeah, 323 00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:04,960 I think that's one that we have not been working on. And I could see that being some, you know, 324 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:09,360 someone's going to need to figure that out. And I'm really looking forward to, you know, 325 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:13,360 some of these meetings we've been having with these agencies, because Prairie Five, for example, 326 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:20,160 is doing a ton of transportation in our region, moving just people around. And they also are doing 327 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:26,560 meal deliveries with refrigerated trucks. So they've got some sense of what transportation 328 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:31,840 in this region looks like. And so I'm hoping to really just be able to learn from them a little 329 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:36,640 bit about their experiences and what they've learned about coordinated transportation. 330 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:40,400 And maybe there's something that a group of producers out here might be able to learn a 331 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:44,400 few things from too. So I've talked to a couple of people involved with food hubs, including 332 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:49,760 Beverly Doherty, who does the real food hub in Wilmer, which is kind of near here. And they have 333 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:55,440 a van that they've rented that they are doing, I think, including in this area, where they pick 334 00:29:55,440 --> 00:30:00,880 up food from farmers, aggregate it, and then deliver it to folks. Do you see food hubs as 335 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:07,040 playing a role, a bigger role here? Or what's the role that they could play? Or I know that they've 336 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:12,480 been hit and miss. Some seem to get going and then they just run out of steam. And then hers seems to 337 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:17,440 have a little bit of head of steam behind it. Yeah. I mean, you've talked to Bev, so you kind of know 338 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:24,800 she's a firecracker. She's, yeah, I wish we had 10 more Bev's out here, because we'd get a lot done. 339 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:29,760 Yeah, I think the neat thing about what they're doing, I mean, they have one transportation route 340 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:34,480 that goes up to Morris and back. And then as a result of some of the work we've done with the 341 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:39,440 asset mapping and just some of this work we've been doing through local food systems, they create 342 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:44,720 a separate route that kind of goes out to Madison, through Montevideo, down to Grant Falls, and back 343 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:52,160 up to Wilmer, where they're based out of. And they do a mix of dropping off produce, but they also are 344 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:58,000 buying produce from local producers as well. I think the other big role that food hubs could 345 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:02,480 really be playing, I mean, talking a lot about farm to school is just kind of where I'm at right 346 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:07,840 now. But I'm really excited because Bev has been doing a lot around farm to school. And I think 347 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:12,800 there's something about what food hubs are doing in terms of aggregation and distribution and 348 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:19,680 figuring those pieces out and having one, kind of a one-stop shop is really appealing both for, 349 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:24,240 potentially for producers, but also I know for the school districts. And I know many school 350 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:29,120 districts, you know, doing farm to school, you know, buying things from 20 different producers can be 351 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:37,520 just crazy and managing drop-off and managing even just the amount of produce that you need 352 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:42,240 to meet some of these orders. And something like a food hub, that's especially a food hub that is 353 00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:47,600 connected in with some of the other food hubs in the regions, have the capacity to be able to be 354 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:53,120 the one buyer for producers. So a producer doesn't have to work with five different school districts. 355 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:58,800 And on the flip side, they also can be the one kind of the one source that the school districts 356 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:04,400 are also buying from and not having to, there's a little bit of an interface there that there's 357 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:10,160 a role for that middleman position out here for sure when it comes to those orders. So yeah, 358 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:14,560 I think I kind of see that role, you know, as one that could be a, yeah, it's one that we're 359 00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:18,320 trying to explore with them for sure. So I'm thinking this must be kind of fun for you. I 360 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:23,600 know you live just outside of town here in Granite Falls and you have deep connections to the 361 00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:30,080 community, deep roots here. This must be kind of fun to see, maybe to think about planting the seeds 362 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:34,720 of what a future food system could look like in this area. Yeah, I mean, absolutely. I mean, we, 363 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:39,440 I mean, once it's enjoyable work. I mean, I spend most of my days working with producers and 364 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:45,280 organizing meetings with producers, which, you know, is pretty fun. I mean, just to be honest, 365 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:51,440 it's, they're great groups of people to be in meetings with, oftentimes with really good food 366 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:55,840 when we do potlucks, especially, you know, we've been doing a lot of meetings up at the Madison 367 00:32:55,840 --> 00:33:01,280 Mercantile. So it's just, it's, it's a awesome space again, to see just the intersections of 368 00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:07,280 community, our food all coming together in one spot and just the vibrancy that that brings into 369 00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:11,840 a community is, is, is pretty amazing. And so, yeah, I mean, you know, there's definitely long 370 00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:17,840 days, but yeah, very, I feel very privileged to be able to do this work for sure. And yeah, I mean, 371 00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:23,120 I live out here, so it's, it's, you know, I, I'm hopefully going to be directly benefiting from 372 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:29,920 the fruits and vegetables of my labor. And yeah, I mean, it's, it's something that when I moved out 373 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:35,680 here and just thinking about the work that I'm doing, it's, it's wanting definitely self-interest 374 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:39,840 to, to, to grow this, but also, you know, for my kids too, I mean, my kids are going to be in the 375 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:44,800 school district out here and when they're being served meals, yeah, it would be amazing to have 376 00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:51,440 a significant portion of that coming from producers that I'm working with versus, you know, coming 377 00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:57,120 from who knows where and who knows what's in it. It's, you gotta start somewhere. Yeah, you gotta 378 00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:01,520 start somewhere. So, and that's the, that's the thing too, is I think right now we're talking 379 00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:06,400 really big pieces here, but we're also, you know, just trying to start with just even, hey, let's do 380 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:10,960 one vegetable or one dish and let's just start from there. Cause I think that's, that's really 381 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:18,560 where these systems get built is, is through just starting, trying and it's, you know, baby steps, 382 00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:24,320 but my kid a year ago was taking baby steps and now he's running faster than I am. So it doesn't 383 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:39,360 take a long time either. For more on building community food systems, see the podcast page for 384 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:46,720 your Ear to the Ground episode 347 at landstewardshipproject.org. There, you'll also 385 00:34:46,720 --> 00:34:52,240 find links to other podcast episodes we've done on this issue. If you have comments or suggestions 386 00:34:52,240 --> 00:35:03,360 about this podcast, contact Brian DeVore at bdevor at landstewardshipproject.org or you can call 612-816-9342. 387 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:07,920 By the way, it helps us greatly if you can give Ear to the Ground a rating on whatever podcast 388 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:13,120 platform you utilize. And word of mouth is the best way to spread the news about our podcast. 389 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:19,680 If you like what you hear, tell at least one person about LSP's Ear to the Ground. Thanks to 390 00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:24,880 Laura Borgendahl, a Western Minnesota musician, for Ear to the Ground's theme music. And a special 391 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:29,840 thank you to all of Land Stewardship Project's members who make initiatives such as this podcast 392 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:37,200 possible. If you're not a member, visit landstewardshipproject.org to learn how you can support LSP. 393 00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:50,480 Thanks for listening.