1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:08,100 I think that part of the prejudice around like who's a farmer and who's not gets passed down to all of us, even us urban farmers. 2 00:00:08,100 --> 00:00:12,720 And it can be easy to think like, oh, I'm not a farmer, I'm a gardener. 3 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:17,020 Or at what point do I qualify as a farmer and sort of limit yourself? 4 00:00:17,220 --> 00:00:20,080 I absolutely think that urban agriculture is having a moment. 5 00:00:20,080 --> 00:00:21,180 I hope it's having a moment. 6 00:00:21,180 --> 00:00:33,480 That would be beneficial for all of us. 7 00:00:33,480 --> 00:00:44,640 Welcome to the 348th installment of Ear to the Ground, the Land Stewardship Projects podcast on family farming, regenerative agriculture, community food systems and local democracy. 8 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:48,180 I'm Brian DeVore, editor of the Land Stewardship Letter. 9 00:00:48,180 --> 00:00:56,740 Attendance at a farm field day or workshop can be a good gauge of just how much interest there is in a particular production technique or system. 10 00:00:56,740 --> 00:01:09,520 For example, the buzz around soil health in recent years has resulted in workshops that are standing room only and field days where parking logistics resemble something you'd see at a county fair. 11 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:20,560 With that in mind, on a recent Monday evening in early September, I found myself standing next to a tiny farm tucked between railroad tracks and an empty lot in northeast Minneapolis. 12 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:30,320 I was there for a field day showcasing California Street Farm, an urban vegetable operation that raises vegetables on just a third of an acre. 13 00:01:30,320 --> 00:01:37,960 The event was being put on by the Twin Cities Metro Growers Network, which is an initiative of the Sustainable Farming Association. 14 00:01:37,960 --> 00:01:43,880 As the start time of the field day approached, dozens of people walked up to the registration table. 15 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:55,820 It was clear there was a lot of interest in how California Street's owner, Alisa Ile, was raising food on a commercial basis in the heart of a major metropolitan area. 16 00:01:55,820 --> 00:02:07,480 Alisa is a graduate of the Land Stewardship Projects Farm Beginnings Program, a course taught by other farmers that provides training in holistic business planning, goal setting and innovative marketing. 17 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:14,420 In fact, it turns out she came to own California Street Farm through connections she made via Farm Beginnings. 18 00:02:14,420 --> 00:02:24,860 During the field day, staffers with the University of Minnesota's Extension Service, as well as the local office of the USDA's Natural Resources Conservation Service and its Farm Service Agency, 19 00:02:24,860 --> 00:02:32,180 were on hand to share information on resources available for farmers raising food in urban areas. 20 00:02:32,180 --> 00:02:43,020 There was also a presentation on the U of M's 2023 initiative that tested soils on 100 small-scale vegetable operations, including California Street Farm. 21 00:02:43,020 --> 00:02:50,320 Alisa provided a tour of the vegetable plots and two hoop houses she uses to raise 50 types of vegetables, 22 00:02:50,320 --> 00:03:00,380 and fielded questions about soil health, fertility issues, government cost share funding that's available, and the economics of producing food in the city. 23 00:03:00,380 --> 00:03:10,120 It was clear the field day participants were here to learn how to make a go of it in agriculture, even if the setting did not fit the Midwestern rural stereotype. 24 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:22,680 All in all, given the good attendance and the presence of government and land grant personnel, it was one more indication that urban agriculture is being taken seriously, or, as Alisa makes clear, it's having a moment. 25 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:29,480 After the field day, Alisa chatted with me about the opportunities and challenges of producing food on urban land. 26 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:38,680 By the way, it turns out paying attention to soil health is particularly important when one is farming intensively on small plots utilizing hoop houses. 27 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:45,320 Alisa also talked about why it's so important for urban agrarians to stand up and be counted. 28 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:56,320 So this here is California Street Farm, and California Street Farm was established back in 2012 by a couple of aspiring farmers, gardeners, 29 00:03:56,320 --> 00:04:01,220 folks who I believe worked in the restaurant industry who are friends of the landowners. 30 00:04:01,220 --> 00:04:13,120 They've gardened it for a couple of years, put up the fence, and then back in 2019, Chris Barth and Ashley Thorfenson started a production farm here. 31 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:23,320 And it's been California Street Farm the whole way, but just that was about six years ago that it transitioned into being a production farm. 32 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:29,920 They started selling at the Northeast Farmers Market, and they started the farm stand that's here at the farm every Monday. 33 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:37,080 Three years ago, or about two and a half years ago, the farm was transitioned to me from Ashley and Chris. 34 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:42,120 I met them through the Farm Beginnings course at the Lions Tourist Project. 35 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:46,680 And so I met them. They were looking for somebody to take over the farm. 36 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:52,780 They really believed they really wanted the land to stay urban ag. 37 00:04:52,780 --> 00:05:01,360 It's difficult to access land to farm in the city, and they had worked really hard to get it back into farming rotation. 38 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:04,660 And so they wanted it to be continue as a farm. 39 00:05:04,660 --> 00:05:10,220 And so I started running California Street Farm two and a half years ago. 40 00:05:10,220 --> 00:05:12,860 So this is I'm just closing out my third season. 41 00:05:12,860 --> 00:05:18,280 Just a little bit more background. So this farm is it's like a third of an acre that you've got here. 42 00:05:18,280 --> 00:05:23,120 And just so for people to kind of picture it, it's next to a railroad track here. 43 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:25,320 We had a couple of trains go by during the field day. 44 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:29,580 And then we're across the street from the California Building, which is kind of a commercial building. 45 00:05:29,580 --> 00:05:34,020 And it's the owners of that who own this, right? And you're renting that from them. 46 00:05:34,020 --> 00:05:35,280 Is that kind of how it's set up? 47 00:05:35,280 --> 00:05:47,420 Yeah, that's correct. So the owners of the California Building are folks who have been in the artist community for many, many years and are very excited about. 48 00:05:47,420 --> 00:05:50,980 They own this land. And so we have a two year lease. 49 00:05:50,980 --> 00:05:54,860 So I feel really secure here, which is nice. And they love having the farm here. 50 00:05:54,860 --> 00:06:01,220 So you explain during the field day, I think you're raising something like 50 types of vegetables. 51 00:06:01,220 --> 00:06:03,880 Fifty. And so and it's pretty intense. 52 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:06,740 And I'm I'm I got to tell you, I'm not just saying this to make you feel good. 53 00:06:06,740 --> 00:06:08,540 This is a really impressive what you got here. 54 00:06:08,540 --> 00:06:12,620 It's really thriving and everything looks really good. 55 00:06:12,620 --> 00:06:22,260 One of the points that you made that I think is a really important point is that because it's such a small space, you're very intensive in the way you're doing this. 56 00:06:22,260 --> 00:06:26,940 And I don't think a lot of people would think of this, but I think it was a super good point you made. 57 00:06:26,940 --> 00:06:30,940 That means soil health is even more important for you. 58 00:06:30,940 --> 00:06:35,020 And so health in an urban area can be difficult unto itself. 59 00:06:35,020 --> 00:06:38,940 But in on such an intense basis, that can be hard. 60 00:06:38,940 --> 00:06:52,860 Can you talk about some of the challenges of when you're doing something this intensive of trying to keep that soil so it is healthy and that it's it's productive in the long term and it's also maybe not an environmental threat, that type of thing. 61 00:06:52,860 --> 00:06:55,740 Yeah, absolutely. So soil health is so important. 62 00:06:55,740 --> 00:07:00,700 I think about it because basically because it's such a small I'm limited by space. 63 00:07:00,700 --> 00:07:08,660 Most beds are turned over two to three times in a season, which I kind of imagine as being my soil. 64 00:07:08,660 --> 00:07:15,860 Like the challenges that I'm experiencing with soil health are just quickened by that many times. 65 00:07:15,860 --> 00:07:24,980 It's like I have three years packed into one year of accumulation of disease or stress or using up those nutrients. 66 00:07:24,980 --> 00:07:34,660 So and also because everything is so tightly, so closely planted, disease transfer from plant to plant is very quick. 67 00:07:34,660 --> 00:07:41,980 And so I definitely struggle with disease, especially, I would say, with brassicas. 68 00:07:41,980 --> 00:07:46,460 There's so many brassicas. So many of the crops that I grow are brassicas. 69 00:07:46,460 --> 00:07:53,540 And it can be difficult to get them far enough from each other so that they're not transferring fungal diseases from one to the next. 70 00:07:53,540 --> 00:08:06,820 So trying to sort of get my head around this kind of like phosphorus problem that so many of us small farmers are having where we've used compost, 71 00:08:06,820 --> 00:08:08,820 animal based compost for many, many years. 72 00:08:08,820 --> 00:08:16,100 And now we have really high phosphorus and are trying to get away from that and figure out how to incorporate cover crops, 73 00:08:16,100 --> 00:08:20,420 which is those are whole other crops that we have to incorporate into an intensive system. 74 00:08:20,420 --> 00:08:24,340 And it can be difficult to figure out how they can fit. 75 00:08:24,340 --> 00:08:31,580 And how do we prioritize soil health when I'm trying to make a living for myself and for my two employees off of a third of an acre? 76 00:08:31,580 --> 00:08:38,620 You know, that's mostly it's all about the money, right? In the four, right? 77 00:08:38,620 --> 00:08:46,140 It's like it's so much about how much I can produce and producing high value crops like to me heirloom tomatoes, 78 00:08:46,140 --> 00:08:49,740 which really take a toll on the soil after a while. 79 00:08:49,740 --> 00:08:53,180 So what I was going to ask about was some of the strategies you're using. 80 00:08:53,180 --> 00:08:55,420 So it sounds like cover crops. 81 00:08:55,420 --> 00:08:59,660 And we should also point out your kind of no till or as you said, low till. 82 00:08:59,660 --> 00:09:02,940 Can you describe that, what that means for this this operation? 83 00:09:02,940 --> 00:09:17,580 I learned about no and low till several years ago, specifically when thinking about heavy tillage in the soil and how that really weakens the soil and disrupts the fungal communities. 84 00:09:17,580 --> 00:09:23,820 So on my farm, I call it low till because tillage is very varied. 85 00:09:23,820 --> 00:09:27,100 There's many, you know, you can be pulling weeds and that's tilling your soil. 86 00:09:27,100 --> 00:09:34,140 I don't necessarily think it's no till, but low till to me means that my only form of tillage is with a broad fork. 87 00:09:34,140 --> 00:09:35,660 And so it's vertical tillage. 88 00:09:35,660 --> 00:09:42,740 I'm never flipping the topsoil upside down in a way that sort of disrupts the natural layers of things. 89 00:09:42,740 --> 00:09:46,060 So that's what I mean by no or low till here. 90 00:09:46,060 --> 00:09:53,500 And I specifically when I'm pulling plants from the soil, I'm flipping a bed. 91 00:09:53,500 --> 00:10:09,500 I'm usually mowing off the crop residue or clipping the plants off at the soil surface and trying to leave as many root systems to decompose in the soil on their own naturally as possible without yanking them out and disrupting the soil. 92 00:10:09,500 --> 00:10:11,500 Yeah, it kind of reminds me a little bit. 93 00:10:11,500 --> 00:10:22,780 I've been on crop farms, corn and soybean farms, who do something called strip till where you kind of have these these areas that are never these pathways that are never that they're the same. 94 00:10:22,780 --> 00:10:27,100 And then the areas that are the grow, it kind of reminds me of that a little bit, the way you have this set up. 95 00:10:27,100 --> 00:10:32,380 I don't know if that's something you've seen or you've heard about or but that's really what it reminds me of. 96 00:10:32,380 --> 00:10:44,460 Yeah, I think that it's really fascinating to think about conventional growers and their no till and low till practices and how they're able to do them with these giant machines and like such precision. 97 00:10:44,460 --> 00:11:00,220 And I sort of try to think about that and think about myself and how I can use my body and how I can like use the soil and sort of think about like just figuring out the problem of, OK, how do I plant into this into this crop residue right into it? 98 00:11:00,220 --> 00:11:02,540 You know, and how do I make that easier on myself? 99 00:11:02,540 --> 00:11:10,140 So, so yeah, you're you're trying to integrate cover crops more and kind of replace that manure based compost system. 100 00:11:10,140 --> 00:11:11,980 Can you describe your cover cropping system? 101 00:11:11,980 --> 00:11:14,140 You have a there's a real method to the madness. 102 00:11:14,140 --> 00:11:19,180 You're using electric mower and you're using silage, black plastic silage. 103 00:11:19,180 --> 00:11:23,900 What they use in silage systems for to help kind of terminate that cover crop. 104 00:11:23,900 --> 00:11:27,420 But it described that that system, kind of what you might do in a typical year. 105 00:11:27,420 --> 00:11:37,260 I know there's no typical year, but what you might what you generally would do with integrating those cover crops and following up with the plantings, that kind of thing. 106 00:11:37,260 --> 00:11:42,780 Mostly for me, because of the intensive planting, I'm planting cover crops in the fall. 107 00:11:42,780 --> 00:11:47,580 Some people will incorporate cover crops throughout their season or like early spring. 108 00:11:47,580 --> 00:11:52,860 I typically get my cash crops in the ground as soon as possible. 109 00:11:52,860 --> 00:11:57,020 And so mostly I'm cover cropping in the fall with the intensive system. 110 00:11:57,020 --> 00:12:01,820 I usually depend on cover crops that are going to die in the winter just to make it easier on myself. 111 00:12:01,820 --> 00:12:13,420 But when I am using winter rye to hold the soil through the spring, I will let it grow to, you know, almost let it grow a few feet tall. 112 00:12:13,420 --> 00:12:19,180 The seed let the seed heads develop and then I'll actually run it over with my electric lawn mower. 113 00:12:19,180 --> 00:12:25,820 And usually I have to set the deck up on the lawn mower pretty high to get it down the first time. 114 00:12:25,820 --> 00:12:29,820 I should really just get a side that probably would make it a lot easier. 115 00:12:29,820 --> 00:12:33,660 It's definitely hard on the machine, but I hit it with the lawn mower. 116 00:12:33,660 --> 00:12:38,860 And then you also can I've just crimped it with a T-post in previous years. 117 00:12:38,860 --> 00:12:44,860 You can tie a couple pieces of rope on either end of a T-post and get two people and kind of stomp it down. 118 00:12:44,860 --> 00:12:50,460 And then I pull a black silage tarp over the top of it and just bake it in the sun. 119 00:12:50,460 --> 00:12:53,660 I guess called solarization for a few weeks. 120 00:12:53,660 --> 00:13:02,700 The rye is really rigorous and I think it really does need a few weeks to a month in order to decompose. 121 00:13:02,700 --> 00:13:06,860 And then usually I peel it back and I can transplant right into it. 122 00:13:06,860 --> 00:13:19,340 So I keep it on the bed as a mulch and I'll transplant maybe a long season crop like something like a cauliflower or broccoli or something that can just like get planted right into that mulch. 123 00:13:19,340 --> 00:13:24,060 I did this last year I planted basil right into it and it did fairly well. 124 00:13:24,060 --> 00:13:28,300 Yeah, I mean it looks like it's really helped with this weed control. 125 00:13:28,300 --> 00:13:32,060 I mean it looks I know you've pulled weeds too. 126 00:13:32,060 --> 00:13:36,460 That's not you're not getting away with that, but why it looks really good. 127 00:13:36,460 --> 00:13:38,700 Yeah, it definitely helps a lot with weed control. 128 00:13:38,700 --> 00:13:39,580 It's amazing. 129 00:13:39,580 --> 00:13:42,540 We really struggle here in this urban environment. 130 00:13:42,540 --> 00:13:47,660 I don't know if this happens a lot in rural spaces too, but we struggle with bind weed. 131 00:13:47,660 --> 00:13:51,020 And it is just grows rampant on our farm. 132 00:13:51,020 --> 00:13:59,420 So the between the tarps and the cover crops, it helps a lot to kind of like stale bed the beds. 133 00:13:59,420 --> 00:14:01,180 We're sitting right next to one of your hoop houses. 134 00:14:01,180 --> 00:14:03,100 You have two hoop houses. 135 00:14:03,100 --> 00:14:04,700 Here's something I learned today. 136 00:14:04,700 --> 00:14:06,380 It was a real surprise to me. 137 00:14:06,380 --> 00:14:16,620 So you're part of a you've been part of a U of M study called I think 100 farms where one of the things they're looking at is soil health in hoop houses. 138 00:14:16,620 --> 00:14:23,340 Hoop houses have gotten very popular and they're really help help with season extension, especially with crops like tomatoes. 139 00:14:23,340 --> 00:14:27,900 And there's funding now available through natural resources conservation service for it. 140 00:14:27,900 --> 00:14:29,340 So they've really become popular. 141 00:14:29,340 --> 00:14:36,220 But what I was really struck by really surprised was there's some soil health issues with hoop houses. 142 00:14:36,220 --> 00:14:37,740 I didn't know anything about this. 143 00:14:37,740 --> 00:14:46,540 Can you describe what you learned kind of in I guess in general what this study learned, but also you specifically some issues you on this particular farm. 144 00:14:46,540 --> 00:14:57,820 Yeah, so I would say just from my own observation, I started managing this farm maybe two years after the hoop house, the original hoop house was erected. 145 00:14:57,820 --> 00:15:07,180 And I noticed pretty severe drop off in production after I would say year three that the hoop house was in production. 146 00:15:07,180 --> 00:15:10,940 And it was hard for me to tell because I only have one hoop house. 147 00:15:10,940 --> 00:15:13,980 So it had been in tomato production for all of that time. 148 00:15:13,980 --> 00:15:25,900 So I wasn't sure if it was just an issue with not rotating, but definitely noticed not as good germination, like the plants just not producing nearly as much. 149 00:15:25,900 --> 00:15:32,460 And actually started to notice sort of like a white crust on the top of the soil. 150 00:15:32,460 --> 00:15:35,420 So it was salt accumulation. 151 00:15:35,420 --> 00:15:36,460 Exactly. 152 00:15:36,460 --> 00:15:46,060 And so I didn't it was hard to know what was going on if it was just that there wasn't rain, but I was really excited to hear about the 100 farm soil project. 153 00:15:46,060 --> 00:15:58,060 And I wanted to get my soil tested so I could better understand what was going on, especially because I was considering putting up another hoop house to kind of mitigate my crop rotation issues. 154 00:15:58,060 --> 00:16:01,340 So I could flip tomatoes from one to the next. 155 00:16:01,340 --> 00:16:06,700 But I wanted to know what those issues might be so that I could help mitigate them. 156 00:16:06,700 --> 00:16:13,900 Yeah. So that must have been kind of a at least you learned what what was going on that you wasn't just you were doing you were a bad farmer. 157 00:16:13,900 --> 00:16:21,980 But there was some real issues with the hoop house system that that it's got its advantages, but it's got its disadvantages, too, it sounds like. 158 00:16:21,980 --> 00:16:29,740 What have you have you been able to adjust what you do as a result of that research to kind of adjust to those problems? 159 00:16:29,740 --> 00:16:32,620 Yeah, I would say that adjustments are always slow. 160 00:16:32,620 --> 00:16:45,500 You know, we have our tried and true systems that we stick to that they it works for our system and nothing is ever going to work if it doesn't if it doesn't work for us and our bodies and us as farmers and working into our system. 161 00:16:45,500 --> 00:16:46,780 So it's a slow process. 162 00:16:46,780 --> 00:16:57,740 I've been working on trying to put together a plan for how do I feed my soil, a soil health plan for how do I feed my soil without using animal based compost. 163 00:16:57,740 --> 00:17:07,980 And because that was sort of like accentuating the issues in the hoop house, it was just like making them happen faster because they were just adding more salts. 164 00:17:07,980 --> 00:17:27,820 And I'm working on like more crop rotation and really thinking about taking the plastic off my hoop house every few years when I have to replace it and just leaving the hoop house open for the winter and only using maybe one hoop house for overwintering spinach instead of both. 165 00:17:27,820 --> 00:17:34,140 That way, hopefully I can utilize the natural systems a little bit better to get the soil back to what it should be. 166 00:17:34,140 --> 00:17:51,340 So just to be clear, the hoop houses, the problem that they bring bring to the soil and that accumulation of phosphorus and the salt issue, is it is it just because you're not able to rotate as much and it's not getting opened up as much or what what is kind of specifically going on there? 167 00:17:51,340 --> 00:18:04,460 Yeah, as far as I understand the change, the pressure on the soil, the accumulation of salt comes from no real rainfall or snowfall hitting that soil. 168 00:18:04,460 --> 00:18:11,340 So the hoop house keeps that rainfall and snowfall from sort of like washing away those salts. 169 00:18:11,340 --> 00:18:28,700 So there's more accumulation and the water that we irrigate with that we get from wells or from the city, that water comes from, Natalie was talking about, that water comes from, mostly comes from the same place where the rock is like salty. 170 00:18:28,700 --> 00:18:32,860 So the water that we're watering with is actually sort of salty water. 171 00:18:32,860 --> 00:18:43,420 And so that is part of the issue as well, because we're only relying on water that we pump in, which is salty water, and we're not getting rainfall to wash that salt away. 172 00:18:43,420 --> 00:19:02,380 One of the things we talked about, and again, I think it could be surprising for people who don't, who maybe they're familiar with agriculture in general and are familiar with farm conservation programs that go to the big crop farmers or folks who are doing conventional systems out in outstate Minnesota. 173 00:19:02,380 --> 00:19:14,460 But there's actually getting to be a fair amount of resources available through agencies like the Natural Resources Conservation Service, U of M Extension, and extension in other states for urban agriculture. 174 00:19:14,460 --> 00:19:20,700 I think that would surprise a lot of people. And you've used some of these programs. Can you describe some of the programs you've used through this? 175 00:19:20,700 --> 00:19:29,900 Yeah, there's definitely been a movement to expand existing programs to urban farmers and actually make, give urban farmers priority in some cases. 176 00:19:29,900 --> 00:19:35,980 So I've been, I utilize the Equip Cost Share Program through NRCS to build my second hoop house. 177 00:19:35,980 --> 00:19:45,980 And because I built a fairly small hoop house, the funding that I got was able to cover the entirety of the hoop house, which is really, really great for me. 178 00:19:45,980 --> 00:19:47,020 How big is the hoop house? 179 00:19:47,020 --> 00:19:58,620 The hoop house is 50 feet long and 16 feet wide. And it is, there's five beds just under three feet wide. 180 00:19:58,620 --> 00:20:05,660 I received funding for through other programs, through other nonprofits, like the National Young Farmers Coalition. 181 00:20:05,660 --> 00:20:16,220 I received a grant from them this year, as well as a grant through the Minnesota Department or the Minnesota Demonstration Grant, the MDA. 182 00:20:16,220 --> 00:20:23,260 So that grant, I partnered with a professor at the U of M to trial growing cut flowers on my farm. 183 00:20:23,260 --> 00:20:31,740 So I do think there's more awareness of urban farming being a real version of farming. 184 00:20:31,740 --> 00:20:45,660 And the fact that those farmers have been forgotten in a lot of cases, folks are being becoming more aware of that, both on a government level, like government funding level, as well as like in the nonprofit world. 185 00:20:45,660 --> 00:20:56,220 And so I feel like there's more folks looking out for us and also prioritizing us in some cases. And that feels really good. 186 00:20:56,220 --> 00:21:09,340 Yeah, that was another really important message, which was get your farm registered with the USDA, not only so that you can qualify for some of these programs, but also on a bigger picture level. 187 00:21:09,340 --> 00:21:19,500 So that the USDA and some of these agencies and land grant institutions are aware that there's urban agriculture out there. 188 00:21:19,500 --> 00:21:25,580 They're aware, like through the census of ag, oh, this is a constituency we need to be serving kind of thing. 189 00:21:25,580 --> 00:21:36,140 I thought that was a really important point that, you know, because there was the majority of people held up their hands and said they are either interested in farming or already are starting a farm. 190 00:21:36,140 --> 00:21:49,260 They may not all be registered. And I think that's an important message to get across to them that you need to count out there so that there is more of these programs that are that are fine tuned and channeled your way as far as urban agriculture. 191 00:21:49,260 --> 00:21:59,740 Absolutely. I would agree with that entirely. I think that part of the prejudice around like who's a farmer and who's not gets passed down to all of us, even us urban farmers. 192 00:21:59,740 --> 00:22:09,500 And it can be easy to think like, oh, I'm I'm not a farmer. I'm a gardener or, you know, like at what point do I qualify as a farmer and sort of limit yourself? 193 00:22:09,500 --> 00:22:21,820 But I think that if you're growing food and you're growing food for other people and you're curious, you should get into contact with a connector, somebody who can register your farm. 194 00:22:21,820 --> 00:22:28,940 You can get a farm number and then you can start understanding what kind of funding opportunities might be out there for you. 195 00:22:28,940 --> 00:22:37,180 Yeah, because you're a real farm. I mean, you say thirty seven CSA shares and then you have the farm stand and then are you mark is any other marketing that you're doing? 196 00:22:37,180 --> 00:22:47,660 Yeah. So we have thirty seven CSA shares this year. In addition, we have a farm stand every Monday evening and we sell at the Northeast Farmers Market every Saturday. 197 00:22:47,660 --> 00:22:53,580 I mean, do you feel like this is a full time income? That's always the bad question. Ask a farmer. I know. 198 00:22:53,580 --> 00:22:59,020 But I don't know how you want to answer that. But yeah, how is that? How is it working for you financially? 199 00:22:59,020 --> 00:23:02,380 But I don't know how you want to answer that. Yeah, that's a great. 200 00:23:02,380 --> 00:23:12,140 I love I love it when people ask this question because it's like what people actually need to hear is does this farm make you money to live your life? 201 00:23:12,140 --> 00:23:17,420 And and it does like this is my full time. This is my income for the whole year. 202 00:23:17,420 --> 00:23:23,180 The income is all made mostly in the summertime, now a little bit in the winter because of the CSA. 203 00:23:23,180 --> 00:23:28,380 But that income lasts me for the whole year and I pay two part time employees. 204 00:23:28,380 --> 00:23:33,980 So it can make money and margins are very tight. 205 00:23:33,980 --> 00:23:40,580 And every single year we look into what kind of grant funding we can gain access to so that we can. 206 00:23:40,580 --> 00:23:50,340 Invest in equipment or different sort of like changing our system in certain ways or invest in another part time employee, but it definitely works. 207 00:23:50,340 --> 00:23:55,020 And my my costs are very low. I'm a single person without kids and I don't own a house. 208 00:23:55,020 --> 00:24:00,100 I don't have a mortgage and I'm low income enough that I don't have to pay for my student loans. 209 00:24:00,100 --> 00:24:04,060 So like it's sort of like what works for you. 210 00:24:04,060 --> 00:24:07,980 You know, it's it does work for me. It does pay the bills. 211 00:24:07,980 --> 00:24:14,340 And I have fairly low bills, you know, small bills, I would say. 212 00:24:14,340 --> 00:24:17,700 Yes. How old are you? I'm wow. How old? 213 00:24:17,700 --> 00:24:20,940 Thirty years old. Hardest question. 214 00:24:20,940 --> 00:24:24,620 And did you come from a farming background? I did not. 215 00:24:24,620 --> 00:24:28,620 So what I just got to ask you, what got you interested in agriculture farming? 216 00:24:28,620 --> 00:24:37,980 Oh, that's a great question. I think originally what connected me to farming was food, was cooking and just having a growing relationship, 217 00:24:37,980 --> 00:24:40,740 connectedness with my food and where it comes from. 218 00:24:40,740 --> 00:24:47,460 And I also I studied international studies in college. 219 00:24:47,460 --> 00:24:57,740 And I learned a lot about industrial farming and sort of like food trade and food traveling around the world and getting processed in so many different ways. 220 00:24:57,740 --> 00:25:05,380 And I became very frustrated about what felt like an extremely inefficient system that was like very extractive. 221 00:25:05,380 --> 00:25:10,020 And I started to become interested and I just started reading. 222 00:25:10,020 --> 00:25:18,500 And I guess about seven years ago, I took my first job at a diversified vegetable farm in Cannon Falls. 223 00:25:18,500 --> 00:25:22,500 So yes, at Sogan Valley Farm. So that was my first job. 224 00:25:22,500 --> 00:25:33,860 And I think I knew pretty quickly into that job that not only did I love to grow food, I loved how varied farming is. 225 00:25:33,860 --> 00:25:38,900 I loved how it really developed so many different types of skills. 226 00:25:38,900 --> 00:25:52,020 There's been so many and it really helps me wrestle with some of these big questions of social issues around land access and like climate. 227 00:25:52,020 --> 00:26:04,740 And I just think it is it puts me in a place where I get to think about some of those really big and tough questions while also just get in the dirt and working with my hands and putting my head down. 228 00:26:04,740 --> 00:26:10,820 You know, it has kind of this both both and complex offering, I feel as a career. 229 00:26:10,820 --> 00:26:13,540 I just got to ask you about farming or farm beginnings itself. 230 00:26:13,540 --> 00:26:16,140 Was it I mean, what did you was that helpful? 231 00:26:16,140 --> 00:26:19,380 And what did you get? So what did you get out of that? 232 00:26:19,380 --> 00:26:22,140 So I originally took farm beginnings. 233 00:26:22,140 --> 00:26:26,420 I signed up because I was moving back to Minnesota. 234 00:26:26,420 --> 00:26:30,220 I had moved back to Minnesota from farming in Massachusetts for a couple of years. 235 00:26:30,220 --> 00:26:35,020 And I really wanted to connect to folks here in this community, farmers here. 236 00:26:35,020 --> 00:26:42,860 I didn't feel necessarily like I needed farming learning like I had farmed for years before I took the course. 237 00:26:42,860 --> 00:26:48,660 But I knew I needed to learn things about money and business planning and marketing. 238 00:26:48,660 --> 00:26:52,660 And I knew I wanted to get connected to other farmers in my area. 239 00:26:52,660 --> 00:26:55,020 And it was so helpful in that regard. 240 00:26:55,020 --> 00:27:00,380 I felt like I mean, I was connected to the folks that who sold me this farm. 241 00:27:00,380 --> 00:27:06,980 So ultimately, it was essential for me starting my own farm business. 242 00:27:06,980 --> 00:27:17,980 And it just helped me get connect to so many people who I consider peers as well as mentors and continues to be just like weaving this web for me, 243 00:27:17,980 --> 00:27:21,620 which feels like it helps. That's all helps support me. 244 00:27:21,620 --> 00:27:28,420 That's all part of my insurance. I think of it as a small diversified vegetable farmer. 245 00:27:28,420 --> 00:27:33,500 All of these people are helping to hold me. So I'm very grateful for that experience. 246 00:27:33,500 --> 00:27:38,420 Going to a field day like this, we had 40 people in northeast Minneapolis at this urban farm. 247 00:27:38,420 --> 00:27:42,020 Do you feel like urban agriculture is kind of having a moment a little bit? 248 00:27:42,020 --> 00:27:47,980 I don't know. I'm kind of hearing more and more about it and to see all these agency folks here and all the support that is available. 249 00:27:47,980 --> 00:27:50,820 I absolutely think that urban agriculture is having a moment. 250 00:27:50,820 --> 00:27:54,020 I hope it's having a moment. That would be beneficial for all of us. 251 00:27:54,020 --> 00:28:00,420 You know, I think it's I think people are excited about how accessible urban agriculture is. 252 00:28:00,420 --> 00:28:06,620 There are so many people eating and gardening in the city. It's so dense. 253 00:28:06,620 --> 00:28:14,740 Right. And there's so many people who are interested in like, how do we make changes to positively impact the climate? 254 00:28:14,740 --> 00:28:22,100 And farming is a huge it's a huge player in in in making those changes. 255 00:28:22,100 --> 00:28:26,820 And people are interested for sure. And it feels approachable and small. 256 00:28:26,820 --> 00:28:31,660 And I think folks are excited about learning. 257 00:28:31,660 --> 00:28:35,420 I think they're excited to become more familiar with farming again. 258 00:28:35,420 --> 00:28:40,180 You know, there's been this distancing for so long. It's way out there. 259 00:28:40,180 --> 00:28:48,860 It's big scale. Nobody's like in the soil. And I think people are excited to see it happening. 260 00:28:48,860 --> 00:29:02,740 And that happens. Urban farming is if it's anything, it's much more visible to the general population because it's right here where they're walking their dogs and they're walking their kid to school and they're driving to work. 261 00:29:02,740 --> 00:29:07,260 You know, they see it. And that's surprising. And they're like, what's going on? 262 00:29:07,260 --> 00:29:18,500 And they want to know more. 263 00:29:18,500 --> 00:29:32,540 For more on the Land Stewardship Project's Farm Beginnings course and the numerous resources that are available to urban agrarians, see the podcast page for Ear to the Ground, episode three hundred and forty eight at LandStewardshipProject.org. 264 00:29:32,540 --> 00:29:37,660 There you'll also find links to other podcast episodes we've done on urban farming. 265 00:29:37,660 --> 00:29:50,300 If you have comments or suggestions about this podcast, contact Brian DeVore at bdevor at LandStewardshipProject.org or you can call 612-816-9342. 266 00:29:50,300 --> 00:30:00,900 By the way, it helps us greatly if you can give Ear to the Ground a rating on whatever podcast platform you utilize and word of mouth is the best way to spread the news about our podcast. 267 00:30:00,900 --> 00:30:06,100 If you like what you hear, tell at least one person about LSP's Ear to the Ground. 268 00:30:06,100 --> 00:30:10,940 Thanks to Laura Borgendahl, Western Minnesota musician for Ear to the Ground's theme music. 269 00:30:10,940 --> 00:30:17,540 And a special thank you to all of Land Stewardship Project's members who make initiatives such as this podcast possible. 270 00:30:17,540 --> 00:30:24,340 If you're not a member, visit LandStewardshipProject.org to learn how you can support LSP. 271 00:30:24,340 --> 00:30:35,340 Thanks for listening.