1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:08,140 Oh yes, and in 2022 when there was $7 corn and I was out bailing hay, absolutely. 2 00:00:08,140 --> 00:00:13,860 As I turn the tractor around and see the ethanol plant as I'm driving by, I'm questioning what 3 00:00:13,860 --> 00:00:15,340 am I doing out here. 4 00:00:15,340 --> 00:00:17,180 I could be grazing corn. 5 00:00:17,180 --> 00:00:19,940 I look at it from a diversity standpoint. 6 00:00:19,940 --> 00:00:25,380 Ethanol is a part of agriculture, but this other part of agriculture, the grazing, the 7 00:00:25,380 --> 00:00:38,980 livestock end of it, that should also be a part of it as well. 8 00:00:38,980 --> 00:00:44,780 Welcome to the 357th installment of Ear to the Ground, the Land Stewardship Project's 9 00:00:44,780 --> 00:00:49,820 podcast on family farming, regenerative agriculture, community food systems, and local democracy. 10 00:00:49,820 --> 00:00:53,680 I'm Brian DeVore, editor of the Land Stewardship Letter. 11 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:56,340 Talk about market accessibility. 12 00:00:56,340 --> 00:01:01,700 In case Alan and Kathleen Deitz ever need a reminder of one of the main reasons corn 13 00:01:01,700 --> 00:01:06,860 dominates the landscape in their part of southwestern Minnesota, they need to look no further than 14 00:01:06,860 --> 00:01:11,740 the massive ethanol plant that rises to the sky just across one of their fields. 15 00:01:11,740 --> 00:01:15,220 The Deitz's farm some 800 acres in Lyon County. 16 00:01:15,220 --> 00:01:20,500 The land is just on the edge of the city of Marshall and lays as flat as a billiard table, 17 00:01:20,500 --> 00:01:22,500 making it prime corn growing ground. 18 00:01:22,500 --> 00:01:27,380 So yes, they do raise corn, and yes, much of it goes to that Archer Daniels Midland 19 00:01:27,380 --> 00:01:29,500 ethanol plant just up the road. 20 00:01:29,500 --> 00:01:34,660 But in biofuels' massive shadow, the Deitz's are going against the grain, literally. 21 00:01:34,660 --> 00:01:39,340 About half the acres that make up their operation is planted to crops for the organic market. 22 00:01:39,340 --> 00:01:43,660 The Deitz's raise not only corn, but wheat, oats, and sometimes barley on these organic 23 00:01:43,660 --> 00:01:44,660 acres. 24 00:01:44,660 --> 00:01:49,100 But perhaps the area where the farmers depart most dramatically from the corn-centric economy 25 00:01:49,100 --> 00:01:53,700 of the region is in their use of rotational grazing to produce livestock. 26 00:01:53,700 --> 00:01:56,940 They have a cow-calf beef herd, as well as a flock of hare sheep. 27 00:01:56,940 --> 00:02:01,260 Goats and hogs are also part of the mix at Redwood River Farms, which direct markets 28 00:02:01,260 --> 00:02:02,740 meet to customers. 29 00:02:02,740 --> 00:02:06,900 All those animals are raised on rotationally grazed paddocks, planted to summer annuals, 30 00:02:06,900 --> 00:02:08,060 among other things. 31 00:02:08,060 --> 00:02:13,380 They also graze the local Minnesota Department of Natural Resources' wildlife area. 32 00:02:13,380 --> 00:02:18,300 The Deitz's dairy farmed until they sold the herd in 2016, and reintegrating animals 33 00:02:18,300 --> 00:02:20,340 onto the land hasn't been easy. 34 00:02:20,340 --> 00:02:23,980 For one thing, they had to set up a significant system of fencing, which they were able to 35 00:02:23,980 --> 00:02:28,700 do with the help of such initiatives as the Natural Resources Conservation Service's 36 00:02:28,700 --> 00:02:31,740 Environmental Quality Incentives Program. 37 00:02:31,740 --> 00:02:36,000 At first glance, not taking full advantage of a handy local market for a crop that grows 38 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:39,500 well on this land may not seem to make sense. 39 00:02:39,500 --> 00:02:43,980 But the Deitz's have some good, nuts-and-bolts reasons for not going whole hog into growing 40 00:02:43,980 --> 00:02:45,580 corn for biofuels. 41 00:02:45,580 --> 00:02:49,820 Alan has a master's degree in economics and teaches ag business at Southwest Minnesota 42 00:02:49,820 --> 00:02:51,660 State University in Marshall. 43 00:02:51,660 --> 00:02:55,120 So he knows how to crunch the numbers and do financial projections. 44 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:59,960 He sees livestock as a way to diversify the farm's income stream while providing a kind 45 00:02:59,960 --> 00:03:05,640 of insurance policy that fortifies them against crop failures, something that's become particularly 46 00:03:05,640 --> 00:03:11,700 critical in recent years as climate change churns out extreme weather on a regular basis. 47 00:03:11,700 --> 00:03:18,220 And diversity helps safeguard a farm's viability when corn prices plummet, as they did in 2024. 48 00:03:18,220 --> 00:03:23,560 In addition, rotational grazing bolsters the soil's long-term biological health, building 49 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:27,980 up a bit of a bank account that can be cashed in when annual crops are planted. 50 00:03:27,980 --> 00:03:31,980 During a recent field day sponsored by the Sustainable Farming Association and the Department 51 00:03:31,980 --> 00:03:36,860 of Natural Resources, the Deitz's provided a tour of their fields and grazing paddocks 52 00:03:36,860 --> 00:03:41,740 and explained how they're using the livestock not only as a source of income, but as a way 53 00:03:41,740 --> 00:03:44,740 to transition acres into organic production. 54 00:03:44,740 --> 00:03:49,560 Afterwards, with the lights of the ADM ethanol plant twinkling in the dark on the other side 55 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:55,140 of the Redwood River, I talked to Alan about the value of diversity, the benefits of reintegrating 56 00:03:55,140 --> 00:04:01,020 livestock onto the land, and why he and Kathleen are leaning more in the direction of perennials. 57 00:04:01,020 --> 00:04:05,260 He also talked about how it isn't always easy to experiment with regenerative farming 58 00:04:05,260 --> 00:04:10,540 methods as farmers from across the region haul corn right past his fields to the ethanol 59 00:04:10,540 --> 00:04:11,540 plant. 60 00:04:11,540 --> 00:04:16,860 The farmer started our conversation by describing the crop livestock rotation history of a 40-acre 61 00:04:16,860 --> 00:04:18,660 field we were sitting near. 62 00:04:18,660 --> 00:04:22,660 We just had a field day and you did a really nice job of taking us to different parts of 63 00:04:22,660 --> 00:04:28,540 the farm, different fields, and doing a little history on what you're thinking of because 64 00:04:28,540 --> 00:04:33,820 I think one of your main messages was you have to think about this on a multi-year level 65 00:04:33,820 --> 00:04:36,780 and you can't just go from year to year. 66 00:04:36,780 --> 00:04:41,260 You're thinking more in the long term and trying to integrate soil health into that 67 00:04:41,260 --> 00:04:42,260 type of thing. 68 00:04:42,260 --> 00:04:46,420 So the first field that we looked at here, I think it's a 40-acre field. 69 00:04:46,420 --> 00:04:47,940 Take us a little bit through the history of that. 70 00:04:47,940 --> 00:04:52,060 I think that was a really good example of you kind of having to think in the long term 71 00:04:52,060 --> 00:04:56,820 and also really roll with the punches a little bit with weather and other things that kind 72 00:04:56,820 --> 00:04:57,820 of come in on that. 73 00:04:57,820 --> 00:05:01,260 Yeah, so that first field we went to was organic wheat this year. 74 00:05:01,260 --> 00:05:02,980 It was a 40-acre field. 75 00:05:02,980 --> 00:05:07,820 Where we're at right now, it ended up being actually my most profitable acres this year 76 00:05:07,820 --> 00:05:09,260 from what I'm seeing. 77 00:05:09,260 --> 00:05:17,700 I had roughly around a 53, 54 bushel average on the organic wheat. 78 00:05:17,700 --> 00:05:20,960 Had it tested out and it did make a milling quality. 79 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:23,260 So that was a nice little bonus on top of that. 80 00:05:23,260 --> 00:05:28,420 So it ended up turning out really well, which was nice after kind of the history, which 81 00:05:28,420 --> 00:05:29,420 I'll get into now. 82 00:05:29,420 --> 00:05:35,220 But that field was one of the first fields that I converted over to organic. 83 00:05:35,220 --> 00:05:37,900 We did that by planting it in perennials. 84 00:05:37,900 --> 00:05:39,620 That was a decision I made. 85 00:05:39,620 --> 00:05:40,820 That was how I was going to do it. 86 00:05:40,820 --> 00:05:47,060 A lot of farmers, when they end up switching over to organic, they'll end up planting 87 00:05:47,060 --> 00:05:48,060 alfalfa stands. 88 00:05:48,060 --> 00:05:50,140 That's a pretty common way to transition over. 89 00:05:50,140 --> 00:05:54,220 I knew I wanted to be able to graze this and have some diversity in the mix. 90 00:05:54,220 --> 00:06:01,220 And so I worked with, I believe it was Millborne Seeds, Justin Fritchie over at Millborne Seeds, 91 00:06:01,220 --> 00:06:04,020 and he helped me develop a mix that worked really well. 92 00:06:04,020 --> 00:06:07,540 It was with Timothy, Timothy metal brome, some fescue. 93 00:06:07,540 --> 00:06:10,740 There was a couple other in the mix for the grasses. 94 00:06:10,740 --> 00:06:16,420 And then it had in some clovers and some clovers and alfalfa. 95 00:06:16,420 --> 00:06:19,620 And that ended up being a really good grazing mix and a hay mix. 96 00:06:19,620 --> 00:06:26,980 So we ended up grazing and haying that for 2000, well, we had a nurse crop on 2018, but 97 00:06:26,980 --> 00:06:33,500 in 2019 we ended up haying and grazing that, 2020 all the way up until 2023. 98 00:06:33,500 --> 00:06:40,700 2023, knowing that after being in organic for that long, or being in hay ground for 99 00:06:40,700 --> 00:06:44,800 that long and passed its organic certification, I looked at it from a cash flow standpoint 100 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:50,700 that maybe it was time to pull this out of perennials and cash in on the bank account, 101 00:06:50,700 --> 00:06:55,860 the savings account that I have accumulated with the perennials there by building the 102 00:06:55,860 --> 00:06:57,460 soil out, I should say. 103 00:06:57,460 --> 00:07:00,020 And so it seemed like the time to do that. 104 00:07:00,020 --> 00:07:05,220 So what we ended up doing that year is actually calving out on that piece. 105 00:07:05,220 --> 00:07:09,500 So we actually grazed off the first crop, grazed off the first crop and had her calved 106 00:07:09,500 --> 00:07:10,500 out there. 107 00:07:10,500 --> 00:07:12,700 Worked out great. 108 00:07:12,700 --> 00:07:14,900 The cow calves did well. 109 00:07:14,900 --> 00:07:18,140 It was just, since it was so close to the farm, just made a lot of sense. 110 00:07:18,140 --> 00:07:19,940 It worked out really well. 111 00:07:19,940 --> 00:07:24,740 And we ended up finishing up calving, or close to finishing up, but we moved the cattle off 112 00:07:24,740 --> 00:07:27,940 so then I could do a spring plowing. 113 00:07:27,940 --> 00:07:32,500 Spring plowing is sometimes tricky from what I've heard, but the conditions were right 114 00:07:32,500 --> 00:07:33,500 at the time. 115 00:07:33,500 --> 00:07:37,220 It was fairly dry and everything kind of looked good. 116 00:07:37,220 --> 00:07:43,500 So I went ahead and made my first pass through the field and somewhat regretted it because 117 00:07:43,500 --> 00:07:46,440 I didn't want to see those perennials be plowed up. 118 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:48,880 But then I also knew why I was doing what I was doing. 119 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:51,340 So I continued on and it was really nice. 120 00:07:51,340 --> 00:07:53,620 There was really great aggregates in the soil. 121 00:07:53,620 --> 00:07:58,420 I was really, really excited to see how this was going to turn out for a corn crop. 122 00:07:58,420 --> 00:08:01,920 I ended up going over to the field cultivator one time just to kind of level out the field 123 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:04,340 and then went in with a planter and planted. 124 00:08:04,340 --> 00:08:05,780 It seeded really nice. 125 00:08:05,780 --> 00:08:12,220 The unfortunate thing that ended up happening was between roughly about May 10th to September 126 00:08:12,220 --> 00:08:18,660 20th in 2023, my farm or farm location there ended up with about three and three quarter 127 00:08:18,660 --> 00:08:20,900 inches of rain during that time. 128 00:08:20,900 --> 00:08:28,380 And so we did not get enough water or moisture in the soil to get it started. 129 00:08:28,380 --> 00:08:33,780 That late plow probably grazing off that first part and then being, it was also very hot 130 00:08:33,780 --> 00:08:34,780 and dry when I plowed. 131 00:08:34,780 --> 00:08:37,420 I think it got up to 90 degrees at that point. 132 00:08:37,420 --> 00:08:39,740 So it kind of baked the soil a little bit as well. 133 00:08:39,740 --> 00:08:44,500 So we ended up in a situation where we planted but didn't, we didn't have enough moisture 134 00:08:44,500 --> 00:08:45,980 to germinate the seeds. 135 00:08:45,980 --> 00:08:49,940 Over that time, that three and a three quarter inches, I think we had one rain that was a 136 00:08:49,940 --> 00:08:52,580 half inch and that came in July sometime. 137 00:08:52,580 --> 00:08:57,940 Otherwise, it was a tenth, two tenths at a time, not enough to connect the seed and the 138 00:08:57,940 --> 00:08:59,180 soil together. 139 00:08:59,180 --> 00:09:02,780 And so we ended up having just an awful stand out there. 140 00:09:02,780 --> 00:09:08,860 That awful stand, it was probably 20, 25% stand. 141 00:09:08,860 --> 00:09:14,500 And at that point, it was just not going to be a viable crop. 142 00:09:14,500 --> 00:09:17,520 Checked with crop insurance, make sure that I went through all the proper channels to 143 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:20,820 make sure that that worked out, that we were all on the same page. 144 00:09:20,820 --> 00:09:25,520 And then at that point, I made the decision to leave a check strip and graze the rest 145 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:27,980 of it off using cattle. 146 00:09:27,980 --> 00:09:32,460 That ended up working out pretty well to do so because they kept the weeds down in those 147 00:09:32,460 --> 00:09:33,500 acres. 148 00:09:33,500 --> 00:09:39,500 They processed through that corn and we really didn't end up taking anything off it besides 149 00:09:39,500 --> 00:09:44,300 what the cattle took off and gained. 150 00:09:44,300 --> 00:09:48,060 And then they processed all that excess forage and put it back in the soil. 151 00:09:48,060 --> 00:09:54,380 So that was kind of the lead up to the 2024 crop, which ended up being, like I said, we 152 00:09:54,380 --> 00:09:57,800 had a very, very dry winter. 153 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:02,020 So going from a very dry summer to a very dry winter, I wasn't quite sure how things 154 00:10:02,020 --> 00:10:04,100 were going to look going into 2024. 155 00:10:04,100 --> 00:10:06,860 I ended up deciding to put that in wheat. 156 00:10:06,860 --> 00:10:09,140 We were lucky enough to get it in fairly early. 157 00:10:09,140 --> 00:10:13,300 I think it was April 7th is when I got it in this year. 158 00:10:13,300 --> 00:10:15,820 And it was right after we had some rain. 159 00:10:15,820 --> 00:10:21,220 I contemplated with the dry spring that we had, I contemplated planting it right around 160 00:10:21,220 --> 00:10:27,380 the 20th, 21st of March, but I chose not to because it just seemed too early to do so. 161 00:10:27,380 --> 00:10:32,300 And then luckily it rained for a couple of weeks, so we did have some moisture when I 162 00:10:32,300 --> 00:10:33,740 planted into it. 163 00:10:33,740 --> 00:10:37,980 Kind of prevented me from making a bad decision of planting too early, I guess. 164 00:10:37,980 --> 00:10:41,860 But then I was able to get it in on April 7th, which was really nice. 165 00:10:41,860 --> 00:10:44,660 I got it in and we got a nice little rain on it afterwards. 166 00:10:44,660 --> 00:10:45,940 So it took off from there. 167 00:10:45,940 --> 00:10:49,940 The field ended up taking off fairly well through the season. 168 00:10:49,940 --> 00:10:54,780 Due to the drought last year, we had a real bad bloom of Canadian thistle that popped 169 00:10:54,780 --> 00:10:56,820 up through the low spots. 170 00:10:56,820 --> 00:11:00,940 But the spring that we had, it ended up being a wetter spring than anticipated. 171 00:11:00,940 --> 00:11:05,220 That kind of perpetuated, which kind of perpetuated the problem in some of the areas. 172 00:11:05,220 --> 00:11:10,140 So the real wet spots on the farm ended up having a lot of Canadian thistle. 173 00:11:10,140 --> 00:11:13,220 So as we were going through the season, I wasn't quite sure how it was going to end 174 00:11:13,220 --> 00:11:14,220 up. 175 00:11:14,220 --> 00:11:18,100 We went out there and tried to do some walking to try to top some of those thistle heads 176 00:11:18,100 --> 00:11:19,100 off. 177 00:11:19,100 --> 00:11:22,020 That was the only really issue we had from a weed pressure standpoint. 178 00:11:22,020 --> 00:11:25,740 Yeah, and then other than that, we ended up, some of it just kind of got away from us because 179 00:11:25,740 --> 00:11:28,860 of the moisture and so we kind of let it go at that point. 180 00:11:28,860 --> 00:11:35,740 And yeah, ended up harvesting it this year and it turned out to be a fairly good crop 181 00:11:35,740 --> 00:11:36,740 for organic wheat. 182 00:11:36,740 --> 00:11:38,500 So we're happy with that. 183 00:11:38,500 --> 00:11:43,460 I think this is a really good example of, you were talking about how when the corn crop 184 00:11:43,460 --> 00:11:48,380 didn't work out, because you had livestock, it's almost like an insurance policy. 185 00:11:48,380 --> 00:11:54,200 You were able to bring them in and get economic value out of that corn crop while bringing 186 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:56,580 in their manure and adding fertility to it. 187 00:11:56,580 --> 00:12:00,880 I mean, I think that's a really, if you didn't have that livestock, if you hadn't put in 188 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:04,660 fencing systems and that kind of thing, so you could graze it, you wouldn't have that 189 00:12:04,660 --> 00:12:05,660 option. 190 00:12:05,660 --> 00:12:09,300 It would have been a failure and you wouldn't have gotten that economic value. 191 00:12:09,300 --> 00:12:12,780 Plus you wouldn't have maybe been building that soil health up for the future a little 192 00:12:12,780 --> 00:12:13,780 bit. 193 00:12:13,780 --> 00:12:16,420 Yeah, it ended up working out. 194 00:12:16,420 --> 00:12:18,300 It worked out pretty good. 195 00:12:18,300 --> 00:12:22,880 Working with my crop insurance agent, making sure that I was going through those proper 196 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:25,900 channels to do so, we were able to graze it. 197 00:12:25,900 --> 00:12:32,500 And so at that point, what was going to be kind of a weedy mess and sporadic corn crop, 198 00:12:32,500 --> 00:12:36,740 we were able to turn that into some value by running the cattle and maintaining it. 199 00:12:36,740 --> 00:12:40,460 With an organic system, you're limited on the tools that you have in the toolbox. 200 00:12:40,460 --> 00:12:44,700 You can't necessarily go out and spray weeds that are down and you don't necessarily want 201 00:12:44,700 --> 00:12:46,340 fallow ground sitting there. 202 00:12:46,340 --> 00:12:50,220 So having the cattle run over it was a great option. 203 00:12:50,220 --> 00:12:54,020 And then yeah, it was a good point you brought up with having the fencing. 204 00:12:54,020 --> 00:12:58,420 Particularly where I'm at, it's a very heavy corn and soybean region and a lot of the fences 205 00:12:58,420 --> 00:13:01,140 have been taken out over the years. 206 00:13:01,140 --> 00:13:05,820 And there's just not a lot of farmers that have the ability to run cattle. 207 00:13:05,820 --> 00:13:10,760 Even if they had cattle, they'd have to replace all the fences that they had. 208 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:15,420 So I'm glad I started building in that infrastructure because it ends up giving me those options, 209 00:13:15,420 --> 00:13:18,180 as you said, as an insurance policy. 210 00:13:18,180 --> 00:13:22,860 And with those fields, it kind of makes them more dynamic at that point too. 211 00:13:22,860 --> 00:13:29,100 I'm not stuck in a route where I have to go corn or soybeans in my rotation or just row 212 00:13:29,100 --> 00:13:30,100 crops. 213 00:13:30,100 --> 00:13:32,140 I can mix in cattle on a hay crop. 214 00:13:32,140 --> 00:13:37,580 I can do an annual cover crop, an annual pasture, I should say. 215 00:13:37,580 --> 00:13:43,660 All of those things are options that I have by being able to do that. 216 00:13:43,660 --> 00:13:48,660 It's especially important with the climate that we're in because it'd be nice to get 217 00:13:48,660 --> 00:13:49,660 a normal year. 218 00:13:49,660 --> 00:13:55,900 But really over the last, I go back to 2018 when I started the organic transition, there 219 00:13:55,900 --> 00:14:00,460 really hasn't been a normal year from a historical context. 220 00:14:00,460 --> 00:14:06,980 On our home farm here in 2018, we had the river crested twice, which flooded over into 221 00:14:06,980 --> 00:14:10,220 our farm once in July, once in September. 222 00:14:10,220 --> 00:14:16,420 2019 was the year where majority of Lyon County was in prevent plant. 223 00:14:16,420 --> 00:14:21,220 I think only, I'm going to inverse these numbers here, but I can't remember if 60% of the crop 224 00:14:21,220 --> 00:14:26,340 was not planted or only 60% of it was planted, but of the corn crop. 225 00:14:26,340 --> 00:14:29,540 So most of it was in prevent plant that year because it ended up getting so, because of 226 00:14:29,540 --> 00:14:31,180 the moisture we had. 227 00:14:31,180 --> 00:14:36,620 2020 started out really wet, but then dried out and turned out to actually be what we 228 00:14:36,620 --> 00:14:42,020 would consider more of a normal year, I guess, because it was more of a normal cropping year 229 00:14:42,020 --> 00:14:43,020 that way. 230 00:14:43,020 --> 00:14:46,820 But then we had 2021, 22 and 23 where we saw drought. 231 00:14:46,820 --> 00:14:51,060 You might not have necessarily saw it to the same effect on the corn and soybean for corn 232 00:14:51,060 --> 00:14:57,300 and soybean farmers, but if you had hay or pasture or any of the other crops, you saw 233 00:14:57,300 --> 00:15:00,140 the effects of that drought that hit. 234 00:15:00,140 --> 00:15:05,360 So and then this year we had what was looking like a drought coming into the season and 235 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:08,340 then turned out to be a fairly wet May and June. 236 00:15:08,340 --> 00:15:10,780 So and July for that matter as well. 237 00:15:10,780 --> 00:15:17,360 So it's just with kind of the erratic weather system that we've had, it gives you some resilience 238 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:21,620 and some options when things don't go the way that you're anticipating. 239 00:15:21,620 --> 00:15:26,540 Talking about the fencing and how you were explaining earlier, so we can see literally 240 00:15:26,540 --> 00:15:31,280 from your farm, the ADM ethanol plant here, and that really had a big, I don't know when 241 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:32,280 you said that one in. 242 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:39,860 It was built in the mid 80s and what that did in this area really had a really big economic 243 00:15:39,860 --> 00:15:41,820 impact on corn farming. 244 00:15:41,820 --> 00:15:49,040 It used to be historically there, Lyon County here had a fairly low corn price because there 245 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:53,460 wasn't a lot of options to move it out of here from an export standpoint. 246 00:15:53,460 --> 00:15:56,780 So it was definitely a value added at that point. 247 00:15:56,780 --> 00:16:03,060 Yeah, so having that there kind of did change the landscape a little bit because it seemed 248 00:16:03,060 --> 00:16:08,380 like a lot of the farmers in the area because of that basis improvement decided to get out 249 00:16:08,380 --> 00:16:13,340 of livestock, which you know is their prerogative and what they want to do and it made economic 250 00:16:13,340 --> 00:16:14,340 sense. 251 00:16:14,340 --> 00:16:21,180 But I still being a former dairy farmer and still having cattle, I think it is important 252 00:16:21,180 --> 00:16:25,620 to still have that livestock connection on a farming operation. 253 00:16:25,620 --> 00:16:27,100 Obviously that's always been the case. 254 00:16:27,100 --> 00:16:34,180 Domesticated animals have been included in farming since farming had started and there's 255 00:16:34,180 --> 00:16:40,340 a good relationship that happens between having the livestock and the soil. 256 00:16:40,340 --> 00:16:44,500 When you take those out of it, there's something missing at that point. 257 00:16:44,500 --> 00:16:48,480 Well the other thing that really struck me is we went a mile north of the farm here to 258 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:53,380 another farm that you farm and I think you said it's 175 acres or 170 acres. 259 00:16:53,380 --> 00:16:58,260 You've been establishing some, looks like some summer annuals and some stuff there that 260 00:16:58,260 --> 00:16:59,260 you're grazing there. 261 00:16:59,260 --> 00:17:02,580 But one of the things you pointed out was the cow pies. 262 00:17:02,580 --> 00:17:04,860 I think this is a really important point that you pointed out. 263 00:17:04,860 --> 00:17:07,620 You said the cattle are bringing something back to this. 264 00:17:07,620 --> 00:17:14,740 I think that that's an important thing to look at is that when you are using the cattle, 265 00:17:14,740 --> 00:17:17,180 it's even different from maybe taking hay off. 266 00:17:17,180 --> 00:17:24,220 You are returning something back if you're doing a good grazing management system. 267 00:17:24,220 --> 00:17:25,220 Right. 268 00:17:25,220 --> 00:17:26,220 Yeah. 269 00:17:26,220 --> 00:17:32,060 With that field that we looked at, I planted a summer annual pasture is the way to look 270 00:17:32,060 --> 00:17:33,060 at it. 271 00:17:33,060 --> 00:17:36,060 It was a combination of wheat, oats, and barley. 272 00:17:36,060 --> 00:17:38,420 Just some crops that I raised on the farm here. 273 00:17:38,420 --> 00:17:41,780 Then I purchased some field peas. 274 00:17:41,780 --> 00:17:47,700 I think I had some common vetch and what was the last part of that, buckwheat. 275 00:17:47,700 --> 00:17:52,900 I mixed that in there with the intentions of grazing that. 276 00:17:52,900 --> 00:18:00,540 It might look a little funny to some individuals where the only economic value that I'd end 277 00:18:00,540 --> 00:18:04,860 up getting off of it this year would be running cattle over it. 278 00:18:04,860 --> 00:18:08,180 I'm looking at it from a long-term perspective. 279 00:18:08,180 --> 00:18:12,380 Next year I'm hoping that's going to be an organic corn crop. 280 00:18:12,380 --> 00:18:19,100 They're basically applying all of my minerals, or not my minerals, my fertilizer for next 281 00:18:19,100 --> 00:18:20,100 year. 282 00:18:20,100 --> 00:18:23,540 All the nutrients that I'll need for that crop, they're applying out there. 283 00:18:23,540 --> 00:18:31,260 Whereas I might not necessarily make as much money, I'm hoping to have a break even on 284 00:18:31,260 --> 00:18:33,300 that field this year. 285 00:18:33,300 --> 00:18:39,860 Next year I'll see the value of that when we pull the organic corn off of it because 286 00:18:39,860 --> 00:18:47,100 the amount of nutrients that I had to apply, I'm not having to buy any button inputs. 287 00:18:47,100 --> 00:18:49,840 That's the big advantage that I'm seeing. 288 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:53,820 Even if the crop ends up only being 100 bushel of organic corn, that's still going to cash 289 00:18:53,820 --> 00:18:58,300 flow because of the low inputs that I have into it. 290 00:18:58,300 --> 00:19:00,860 I think that's the big thing that they add into it. 291 00:19:00,860 --> 00:19:05,380 Then too, I think from a fitness standpoint with cattle, I think it's good for them to 292 00:19:05,380 --> 00:19:10,220 be out moving around on the land. 293 00:19:10,220 --> 00:19:17,980 That's where they need to be, is out on the land versus in some sort of barn or in a yard 294 00:19:17,980 --> 00:19:19,740 or a lot. 295 00:19:19,740 --> 00:19:23,940 You just have to put up with the peer pressure of because the ethanol plant is right there, 296 00:19:23,940 --> 00:19:28,260 like you said, everybody's driving by hauling their corn to the ethanol plant. 297 00:19:28,260 --> 00:19:31,380 That's probably one of the most trafficked areas in the county. 298 00:19:31,380 --> 00:19:36,860 You're like, what's Alan doing now? 299 00:19:36,860 --> 00:19:40,460 That's something you have to deal with a little bit. 300 00:19:40,460 --> 00:19:46,660 Yeah, I've noticed from a few neighbors that they'll say something about... They usually 301 00:19:46,660 --> 00:19:48,940 have... It's the Minnesota nice thing. 302 00:19:48,940 --> 00:19:51,860 They'll say something, when something goes right, they'll say, well, that worked out 303 00:19:51,860 --> 00:19:54,220 pretty good or that was kind of neat to see. 304 00:19:54,220 --> 00:20:02,700 I know people see it, which is a double-edged sword at that point where, yeah, it's good 305 00:20:02,700 --> 00:20:07,460 for... To see something a little variety out there, but then also when something fails, 306 00:20:07,460 --> 00:20:10,620 it fails spectacularly. 307 00:20:10,620 --> 00:20:15,940 The joke I have is every farmer in four counties drives by my farm at some point, it seems 308 00:20:15,940 --> 00:20:18,580 like, because of my location. 309 00:20:18,580 --> 00:20:22,460 Whether they know it's me or not, they still see what's going on out there. 310 00:20:22,460 --> 00:20:26,980 That was a tough one last year with the organic corn failure. 311 00:20:26,980 --> 00:20:32,700 Just having that look the way it did and knowing that I was grazing it, knowing that I had 312 00:20:32,700 --> 00:20:35,380 a plan, I understood what I was doing. 313 00:20:35,380 --> 00:20:43,760 I understood it made economic sense on my end, but from the casual passerby seeing that, 314 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:45,900 it didn't look appealing. 315 00:20:45,900 --> 00:20:49,540 That was the same thing that happened this year with the wheat. 316 00:20:49,540 --> 00:20:54,660 I had the thistle bloom that ended up in those wet areas. 317 00:20:54,660 --> 00:20:59,460 I knew it didn't look good, but I knew how good the rest of the crop looked. 318 00:20:59,460 --> 00:21:04,380 I knew what the numbers were on it, that yes, I don't want to have those thistles. 319 00:21:04,380 --> 00:21:08,580 Yes, I want to try to do what I can about it, but on the other end, from an economic 320 00:21:08,580 --> 00:21:13,580 standpoint, it was going to make sense and it's part of my farming operation. 321 00:21:13,580 --> 00:21:19,660 I think that brings up another really good point that you brought up, which was your 322 00:21:19,660 --> 00:21:23,220 off-farm job as you teach, is it ag finance? 323 00:21:23,220 --> 00:21:24,220 Ag business. 324 00:21:24,220 --> 00:21:27,660 Ag business at Southwest Minnesota State University. 325 00:21:27,660 --> 00:21:32,420 You're used to looking at finances and thinking in terms of numbers and that kind of thing. 326 00:21:32,420 --> 00:21:37,420 One of the points that you made was it's a little bit frustrating that building soil 327 00:21:37,420 --> 00:21:43,740 organic matter is not one of those things that really shows up on a balance sheet. 328 00:21:43,740 --> 00:21:49,740 That's really hard to tabulate and say, okay, maybe I'm not getting a top crop this year, 329 00:21:49,740 --> 00:21:54,380 but I'm still, because I'm integrating livestock into the system and kind of building that 330 00:21:54,380 --> 00:22:01,100 soil health, I am over time kind of building up the financial resiliency of the soil here. 331 00:22:01,100 --> 00:22:03,900 It sounds like that's something that you think about a lot. 332 00:22:03,900 --> 00:22:10,300 Yeah, and I was fairly lucky with my dad. 333 00:22:10,300 --> 00:22:14,760 He may not have understood kind of the things that I was trying to transition on the farm 334 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:21,580 and do, but he always gave me enough rope to hang myself, I guess. 335 00:22:21,580 --> 00:22:26,860 He might not have understood it, but he let me go through it and sometimes it worked out, 336 00:22:26,860 --> 00:22:27,860 sometimes it didn't. 337 00:22:27,860 --> 00:22:33,740 At his funeral a couple years ago, it was kind of a nice thing that one of the seed 338 00:22:33,740 --> 00:22:39,780 salesmen mentioned to me at the funeral is that my dad, when the last time he had talked 339 00:22:39,780 --> 00:22:45,740 with him about buying seed, could stop talking about how profitable one of my fields ended 340 00:22:45,740 --> 00:22:46,740 up being a few years ago. 341 00:22:46,740 --> 00:22:53,220 Where I had organic barley on the field, ended up yielding 90 bushel barley and we ended 342 00:22:53,220 --> 00:22:54,940 up running cattle over the top of it. 343 00:22:54,940 --> 00:23:00,300 We ended up planting just at the right time, had a really nice cover crop on it and we 344 00:23:00,300 --> 00:23:04,940 ended up grazing cattle on it for about a month after we were feed. 345 00:23:04,940 --> 00:23:09,120 My inputs were virtually nothing because I kept my own seed back and there was no fertilizer 346 00:23:09,120 --> 00:23:11,580 besides running the cattle on top of it. 347 00:23:11,580 --> 00:23:16,780 He never said it to me, but he must have said it to other people. 348 00:23:16,780 --> 00:23:18,980 He couldn't believe it. 349 00:23:18,980 --> 00:23:23,020 That was probably the most profitable land or profitable field that we had on all of 350 00:23:23,020 --> 00:23:29,540 our farms and I couldn't believe it how well it worked with how little inputs. 351 00:23:29,540 --> 00:23:34,900 Now it wasn't always that way, not every field, but it was nice to have those things happen. 352 00:23:34,900 --> 00:23:40,940 Getting back to what you were saying, the unfortunate thing I think I see now is that 353 00:23:40,940 --> 00:23:45,260 there's not enough of that older generation that's willing to let that younger generation 354 00:23:45,260 --> 00:23:49,720 take those chances and do those things. 355 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:55,780 You know, we had farm income in 2022 was great and 23 was really good as well. 356 00:23:55,780 --> 00:24:00,540 We're going to have a downturn in overall income in 2024 with the prices the way that 357 00:24:00,540 --> 00:24:02,780 they've shifted. 358 00:24:02,780 --> 00:24:07,660 That shift is going to put us back into a situation, unless something happens, is going 359 00:24:07,660 --> 00:24:13,540 to put us into a situation where margins are going to get thin again for operators. 360 00:24:13,540 --> 00:24:19,940 We saw that after the 2012, 11, 12 run up in commodity prices. 361 00:24:19,940 --> 00:24:27,700 We had a step down through 13 and 14 through really 2020 were really tough on farmers, 362 00:24:27,700 --> 00:24:29,380 very thin margins. 363 00:24:29,380 --> 00:24:34,660 And so really taking those chances were something that a lot of them didn't want to do because 364 00:24:34,660 --> 00:24:39,860 again why would you put yourself in a situation where you could have a loss and if there's 365 00:24:39,860 --> 00:24:42,380 not a lot of room to move around. 366 00:24:42,380 --> 00:24:51,060 And then additionally if you're, you know, a lot of farmers have to utilize credit to 367 00:24:51,060 --> 00:24:52,860 make their farming operations work. 368 00:24:52,860 --> 00:24:59,100 When it comes from a lender's standpoint, not saying that they're against any of the 369 00:24:59,100 --> 00:25:03,820 soil health or any of that by any means, but the one thing is on a balance sheet you're 370 00:25:03,820 --> 00:25:08,020 never going to find a line item that says soil organic matter. 371 00:25:08,020 --> 00:25:09,020 That's not going to matter. 372 00:25:09,020 --> 00:25:13,340 It might show up through your practices from being more profitable, but there's no line 373 00:25:13,340 --> 00:25:14,340 on that. 374 00:25:14,340 --> 00:25:16,500 And it's something that you have to build up over time. 375 00:25:16,500 --> 00:25:21,620 And so you need to have a little leeway in the front end so that way you can make things 376 00:25:21,620 --> 00:25:22,620 going. 377 00:25:22,620 --> 00:25:24,300 You need to have that catalyst going forward. 378 00:25:24,300 --> 00:25:28,420 That's kind of the unfortunate thing is that a lot of farmers don't have that option of 379 00:25:28,420 --> 00:25:31,860 being able to get, or young farmers don't have that option to get things started that 380 00:25:31,860 --> 00:25:32,860 way. 381 00:25:32,860 --> 00:25:36,060 If you can start on a small field and just do something different and just give it a 382 00:25:36,060 --> 00:25:37,540 try to see where it goes. 383 00:25:37,540 --> 00:25:40,340 I mean, that's kind of where it starts. 384 00:25:40,340 --> 00:25:42,820 But you have to have the ability to be able to do that. 385 00:25:42,820 --> 00:25:48,460 And if you can't start somewhere, you're never going to be able to get started anywhere. 386 00:25:48,460 --> 00:25:53,660 One of the things you brought up repeatedly was how you've had to deal with, there was 387 00:25:53,660 --> 00:25:55,140 a couple years of drought. 388 00:25:55,140 --> 00:26:00,980 Now we had this weird, super wet early part of the season this year where things kind 389 00:26:00,980 --> 00:26:01,980 of flipped. 390 00:26:01,980 --> 00:26:05,580 And one of the things you pointed out, which I think is a good point, that after a couple 391 00:26:05,580 --> 00:26:09,860 years of drought, you can tell people all you want that cover crops are a good idea. 392 00:26:09,860 --> 00:26:14,500 Boy, they have kind of a bad reputation right now because people just couldn't get them 393 00:26:14,500 --> 00:26:17,300 established and they didn't go well. 394 00:26:17,300 --> 00:26:21,260 So one of the things you brought up was you would point out an example of where there 395 00:26:21,260 --> 00:26:24,260 was some issues with a piece of land that you were working with. 396 00:26:24,260 --> 00:26:30,580 And you'd say, boy, if I could get more perennials established here, I think that that would really 397 00:26:30,580 --> 00:26:34,860 help me be more resilient on this piece of land and kind of be more flexible. 398 00:26:34,860 --> 00:26:39,660 It sounds like that that's really the whole perennialization is something that you really 399 00:26:39,660 --> 00:26:42,940 think about and maybe are leaning more toward. 400 00:26:42,940 --> 00:26:46,420 I don't want to put words in your mouth, but you're leaning more towards on the farm in 401 00:26:46,420 --> 00:26:47,420 general. 402 00:26:47,420 --> 00:26:50,300 Yeah, it's something I've thought about for a long time. 403 00:26:50,300 --> 00:26:58,000 And just trying to make that cash flow, again, is kind of the difficult one. 404 00:26:58,000 --> 00:26:59,580 Just where I'm located. 405 00:26:59,580 --> 00:27:04,100 And a lot of that goes back to the cost of land. 406 00:27:04,100 --> 00:27:10,620 So in our area, we've had some land sales that were $14,000, $15,000 an acre. 407 00:27:10,620 --> 00:27:13,060 So land values are very high. 408 00:27:13,060 --> 00:27:14,540 Cash rent has been really high. 409 00:27:14,540 --> 00:27:19,980 I assume with commodity prices where they're at right now, they're going to come down. 410 00:27:19,980 --> 00:27:25,500 I am lucky I'm farming some family land, so that makes it easier. 411 00:27:25,500 --> 00:27:29,340 But I still have to come up with cash rent. 412 00:27:29,340 --> 00:27:35,900 And when you make that conversion over to perennials, there's an investment. 413 00:27:35,900 --> 00:27:41,740 There's the investment of that first year of whether you put a nurse crop on it or if 414 00:27:41,740 --> 00:27:46,380 you're trying to take some hay off of it, it is not going to cash flow in that first 415 00:27:46,380 --> 00:27:47,380 year. 416 00:27:47,380 --> 00:27:52,220 So I've got one field this year that I've started in a perennial grass mix. 417 00:27:52,220 --> 00:27:55,860 It does have some legumes, some elf elf in there. 418 00:27:55,860 --> 00:28:00,340 But this year, from an economic standpoint, I'm not going to be pulling off a lot from 419 00:28:00,340 --> 00:28:01,340 it. 420 00:28:01,340 --> 00:28:03,860 It's going to be a sink on the cash flow. 421 00:28:03,860 --> 00:28:10,380 Lucky the other fields are hopefully going to be covering that, like the organic wheat 422 00:28:10,380 --> 00:28:12,900 will help out to offset some of that. 423 00:28:12,900 --> 00:28:15,380 And that's kind of how I approach this. 424 00:28:15,380 --> 00:28:19,340 But going really back into those perennials, I look at some of the problems that I had 425 00:28:19,340 --> 00:28:25,000 and a lot of them could have been solved from that, especially with adding more grasses 426 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:26,580 to the mix. 427 00:28:26,580 --> 00:28:32,300 I have some alfalfa fields as well that were not supposed to be strictly alfalfa fields. 428 00:28:32,300 --> 00:28:38,460 Planting them in those droughts created a situation where the alfalfa took and the grasses 429 00:28:38,460 --> 00:28:39,460 didn't. 430 00:28:39,460 --> 00:28:44,860 And so the alfalfa with its deep roots was able to tap onto some moisture and the grasses 431 00:28:44,860 --> 00:28:46,740 ended up withering and dying. 432 00:28:46,740 --> 00:28:53,500 And so these stands of alfalfa that I have were supposed to be a very diverse mix with 433 00:28:53,500 --> 00:28:54,500 grasses. 434 00:28:54,500 --> 00:28:55,900 But that didn't come to be. 435 00:28:55,900 --> 00:29:00,980 That's prevented me from being able to graze them effectively because it's either having 436 00:29:00,980 --> 00:29:06,020 to be late season or very mature alfalfa, otherwise I'm going to have issues with bloat. 437 00:29:06,020 --> 00:29:11,780 And yes, I know there's ways to mitigate that, but at the end of the day, it doesn't necessarily 438 00:29:11,780 --> 00:29:14,700 mitigate all of the issues you have with that. 439 00:29:14,700 --> 00:29:19,900 But with the grasses, what that does is it gives me the option from a hay standpoint 440 00:29:19,900 --> 00:29:23,900 and then also running the livestock. 441 00:29:23,900 --> 00:29:28,940 My first love, and I'd like to be the main, the primary enterprise on the farm is going 442 00:29:28,940 --> 00:29:29,940 to be the livestock. 443 00:29:29,940 --> 00:29:35,320 And with the sheep that we brought in, with the cattle, if I could run everything with 444 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:40,580 cattle and sheep or whatever other livestock and really take down the grain end of it, 445 00:29:40,580 --> 00:29:41,980 I'd much prefer that. 446 00:29:41,980 --> 00:29:45,860 But I have to be able to make that cash flow from a year to year basis. 447 00:29:45,860 --> 00:29:49,980 And so that's where those perennials, trying to fit in, figure out where those perennials 448 00:29:49,980 --> 00:29:50,980 come in. 449 00:29:50,980 --> 00:29:54,660 If it rains too much, it's not a big deal with perennials because they're just going 450 00:29:54,660 --> 00:29:56,660 to suck up all the moisture. 451 00:29:56,660 --> 00:29:58,860 If you can't get out there to cut hay, not a big deal. 452 00:29:58,860 --> 00:30:00,100 You can go out and graze it. 453 00:30:00,100 --> 00:30:04,900 If it gets too dry, yes, that's unfortunate, but it's going to be dry anywhere. 454 00:30:04,900 --> 00:30:09,660 And then there's risk mitigation tools that are available if it gets too dry on grazing 455 00:30:09,660 --> 00:30:10,660 land. 456 00:30:10,660 --> 00:30:13,060 So you can utilize those too. 457 00:30:13,060 --> 00:30:14,780 It just gives you so many more options. 458 00:30:14,780 --> 00:30:20,300 And then also with the cover crops, I really do like adding in all of these cover crops. 459 00:30:20,300 --> 00:30:22,100 I like adding in these different plants. 460 00:30:22,100 --> 00:30:26,380 But if you're not going to get enough moisture to get growth out of them, and you're running 461 00:30:26,380 --> 00:30:31,180 those tractors and the equipment over the fields over and over again, there's a cost 462 00:30:31,180 --> 00:30:32,620 to that. 463 00:30:32,620 --> 00:30:39,060 And labor costs for repair costs on equipment aren't going down. 464 00:30:39,060 --> 00:30:41,160 The cost of equipment isn't going down. 465 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:45,860 So if you can go into a perennial system, you can also limit a lot of that as well. 466 00:30:45,860 --> 00:30:50,700 From what I'm understanding from others I've talked to, quality of life might actually 467 00:30:50,700 --> 00:30:52,100 improve a little bit as well. 468 00:30:52,100 --> 00:30:56,260 There might be some free time instead of sitting on the seat of a tractor trying to get a cover 469 00:30:56,260 --> 00:30:59,940 crop in and making sure you have feed for cattle down the road. 470 00:30:59,940 --> 00:31:01,600 It's growing naturally that way. 471 00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:03,260 You're harvesting energy from the sun. 472 00:31:03,260 --> 00:31:09,660 I can't get over a little bit the irony that you are farming literally in the shadow of 473 00:31:09,660 --> 00:31:15,820 an ethanol plant, a major ethanol plant, which not to beat up on ethanol, but it has, you 474 00:31:15,820 --> 00:31:20,740 know, played a major role in livestock being removed from the land in counties like Lyon 475 00:31:20,740 --> 00:31:26,380 County here, you know, where we're just, when an ethanol plant comes in, it's a big market 476 00:31:26,380 --> 00:31:27,380 for corn. 477 00:31:27,380 --> 00:31:34,260 And so there is, the fences come out, livestock leaves the area and we don't see the integrated 478 00:31:34,260 --> 00:31:36,660 livestock crop farms anymore. 479 00:31:36,660 --> 00:31:40,860 You are kind of going, there's, you know, farmers all over who are going against the 480 00:31:40,860 --> 00:31:42,860 grain and trying to do things differently. 481 00:31:42,860 --> 00:31:48,780 You're doing it in the shadow of an ethanol plant, which is a big player in the trend 482 00:31:48,780 --> 00:31:51,300 the other way where everything goes into row crops. 483 00:31:51,300 --> 00:31:54,660 I mean, do you ever think about the irony of that a little bit of how you're kind of, 484 00:31:54,660 --> 00:31:56,380 you're really going against the grain? 485 00:31:56,380 --> 00:31:57,380 Oh yes. 486 00:31:57,380 --> 00:32:03,100 And in 2022 when there was $7 corn and I was out baling hay, absolutely. 487 00:32:03,100 --> 00:32:08,460 I would, as I turned the tractor around and see the ethanol plant on the, as I'm driving 488 00:32:08,460 --> 00:32:11,340 by, I'm questioning what am I doing out here? 489 00:32:11,340 --> 00:32:16,900 I could be grazing corn and I do raise corn as well. 490 00:32:16,900 --> 00:32:22,600 So and then most of my corn goes to the ethanol plant there that because my, I try to brace 491 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:26,420 my livestock as more of a grass based system. 492 00:32:26,420 --> 00:32:29,060 I'm not feeding any corn to my livestock. 493 00:32:29,060 --> 00:32:32,300 So the corn that I do raise does go to the ethanol plant. 494 00:32:32,300 --> 00:32:37,680 I look at it from a diversity standpoint that, you know, it's good to have those options 495 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:42,580 out there for individuals, but I think the key there is the diversity. 496 00:32:42,580 --> 00:32:49,620 Yes, ethanol is a part of agriculture, but this other part of agriculture, the grazing, 497 00:32:49,620 --> 00:32:53,000 the livestock end of it, that should also be a part of it as well. 498 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:56,140 We need to, you know, just have a balance between the two. 499 00:32:56,140 --> 00:33:03,120 So but yes, that $7 corn made me just kind of grind my teeth together. 500 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:04,180 What was I thinking? 501 00:33:04,180 --> 00:33:10,540 Now I think the local price right now is at $3.95, which again, I teach a commodities 502 00:33:10,540 --> 00:33:16,580 class at SMSU and commodities class, we were looking over basis. 503 00:33:16,580 --> 00:33:18,800 The ethanol plant has risen the basis here. 504 00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:21,340 We have a stronger basis than a lot of the local communities. 505 00:33:21,340 --> 00:33:26,940 If you get 20, 30 miles away from here, the corn price could be 30 or 40 cents lower based 506 00:33:26,940 --> 00:33:27,940 on that. 507 00:33:27,940 --> 00:33:32,860 So it does have a, it does have an economic bearing on the area, which in a positive way 508 00:33:32,860 --> 00:33:34,540 for grain farmers. 509 00:33:34,540 --> 00:33:37,820 But again, just need to be able to strike a balance on it. 510 00:33:37,820 --> 00:33:42,540 I can stomach baling hay a little bit better when it's, when I see the $3.95 as the price 511 00:33:42,540 --> 00:33:56,180 versus a north of $7. 512 00:33:56,180 --> 00:34:01,460 For more on building soil health profitably and reintegrating livestock onto the land, 513 00:34:01,460 --> 00:34:08,260 see the podcast page for Ear to the Ground episode 357 at landstewardshipproject.org. 514 00:34:08,260 --> 00:34:12,980 If you have comments or suggestions about this podcast, contact Brian DeVore at bdevor 515 00:34:12,980 --> 00:34:20,020 at landstewardshipproject.org or you can call 612-816-9342. 516 00:34:20,020 --> 00:34:24,240 It helps us greatly if you can give Ear to the Ground a rating on whatever podcast platform 517 00:34:24,240 --> 00:34:25,380 you utilize. 518 00:34:25,380 --> 00:34:28,300 And word of mouth is the best way to spread the news about our podcast. 519 00:34:28,300 --> 00:34:33,780 If you like what you hear, tell at least one person about LSP's Ear to the Ground. 520 00:34:33,780 --> 00:34:38,540 Thanks to Laura Borgendel, Western Minnesota musician, for Ear to the Ground's theme music. 521 00:34:38,540 --> 00:34:43,300 And a special thank you to all of Land Stewardship Project's members who make initiatives such 522 00:34:43,300 --> 00:34:45,240 as this podcast possible. 523 00:34:45,240 --> 00:34:52,300 If you're not a member, visit landstewardshipproject.org to learn how you can support LSP. 524 00:34:52,300 --> 00:34:53,300 Thanks for listening. 525 00:34:53,300 --> 00:35:00,300 And we'll see you next time.