1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,360 My first question was, do you own a fishing boat? 2 00:00:02,360 --> 00:00:04,360 And then the quick answer is yes. 3 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:06,240 And then I said, well, you're going to have to sell it. 4 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:09,560 Meaning, you know, you're going to work all summer. 5 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:12,480 And it's not easy money at all. 6 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:14,120 I don't know any organic farmer that 7 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:16,880 cashes a grain check or livestock check 8 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:19,280 and says, boy, that was easy money. 9 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:20,720 People earn it. 10 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:34,640 Welcome to the 355th installment of Ear to the Ground, 11 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:36,440 the Land Stewardship Project's podcast 12 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:38,840 on family farming, regenerative agriculture, 13 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:42,080 community food systems, and local democracy. 14 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:45,920 I'm Brian DeVore, editor of the Land Stewardship Letter. 15 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:47,960 During a recent field day on his farm, 16 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:51,920 Matthew Fitzgerald made what he calls the big reveal. 17 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:53,920 That consisted of the young farmer spinning 18 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:57,680 around a giant whiteboard located in his machine shed 19 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:01,800 to reveal a color-coded, detailed schedule for field work 20 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:04,360 during the 2024 growing season. 21 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:07,760 This is what being an organic farm looks like, Matthew quipped. 22 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:10,440 He calls the chart his farm flow, 23 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:13,320 and it's proven to be an invaluable tool for successfully 24 00:01:13,320 --> 00:01:16,680 growing crops without chemicals in central Minnesota. 25 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:18,840 Matthew, along with his father, Joe, 26 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:21,360 were hosting the August field day for other farmers, 27 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:23,720 as well as lenders and folks involved with the marketing 28 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:25,600 end of organic farming. 29 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:28,280 There was also a presentation on how to utilize and modify 30 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:30,360 the various field implements needed to get through 31 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:32,200 an organic growing season. 32 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:35,400 In short, the field day, which was sponsored by Organic 33 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:37,800 Agronomy Training Service, Grain Millers, 34 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:40,280 the University of Minnesota's Forever Green Initiative, 35 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:42,560 and the Minnesota Office for Soil Health, 36 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:45,400 was focused on providing a comprehensive view 37 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:48,440 of the opportunities and challenges associated 38 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:50,560 with organic crop production. 39 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:52,560 The Fitzgerald farm was a fitting venue 40 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:53,880 for such a field day. 41 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:56,920 Joe's been raising organic crops since 1994, 42 00:01:56,920 --> 00:01:58,680 and after graduating from college 43 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:00,680 and working off the farm for a few years, 44 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:03,840 Matthew, who's 33, joined the operation. 45 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:06,840 The Fitzgerald family raises around 2,700 acres 46 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:09,840 of certified organic corn, soybeans, wheat, peas, 47 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:11,320 and edible bean crops. 48 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:13,800 They farm the flat, fertile fields near Glinko 49 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:15,600 in Minnesota's McLeod County. 50 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:17,720 After a panel of farmers shared their experiences 51 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:20,920 with marketing, and a mini tour of the various specialty 52 00:02:20,920 --> 00:02:24,320 weed control implements used by the Fitzgeralds was given, 53 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:27,320 it was clear that, indeed, organic producers 54 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:29,920 earn every cent of that premium they get. 55 00:02:29,920 --> 00:02:32,840 In addition, a field-side discussion about the Balancing Act 56 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:35,880 Organic Crop Farmers Must Strike between controlling weeds 57 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:39,080 with tillage and maintaining soil health 58 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:42,400 drove home why Matthew requires a detailed scheduler 59 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:44,920 to get through the long days of spring and summer 60 00:02:44,920 --> 00:02:47,000 and attain a successful harvest. 61 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:49,440 After the field day, the father-son team, 62 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:53,640 which refers to their operation as a 1.5 generation farm, 63 00:02:53,640 --> 00:02:56,960 sat down to talk to me about what first drew them to organic 64 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:59,720 and how, rather than silver bullet solutions, 65 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:02,920 they rely on silver buckshot to overcome pests, 66 00:03:02,920 --> 00:03:05,160 climate change, and marketing challenges. 67 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:07,200 It's clear the Fitzgeralds are committed 68 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:09,360 to organic production, despite the fact 69 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:11,280 that spending time on the lake is not 70 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:12,720 an option during the summer. 71 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:14,840 Matthew started our conversation describing 72 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:17,760 how his Farm Flow Scheduler provides a visual guide 73 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:20,120 to what work needs to be done when. 74 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:21,800 It can also help remind the farmers 75 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:25,360 why they feel pretty tired by the end of the growing season. 76 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:29,080 What we use is a visual tool to lay out our work. 77 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:31,480 And what it is is sort of a, it's 78 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:34,680 stolen from the project management world. 79 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:37,440 So it's called a Kanban board, would be the, 80 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:40,120 if you were like a really corporate process person, 81 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:41,040 that would make sense. 82 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:44,520 But for all of us lay people, basically it's 83 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:48,240 just a chart of everything that happens on the farm, 84 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:50,560 laid out with little colorized dots. 85 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:53,160 Each dot represents a day and a thing 86 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:54,400 that we're doing on the farm. 87 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:58,360 And so that was a tool that we started developing two years 88 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:01,880 ago to kind of help us start our mornings and go, OK, 89 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:03,360 what's happening in the chaos? 90 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:05,760 Because in June, it's chaos. 91 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:09,960 And so that really became what we're calling farm flow, 92 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:12,360 sort of the concept. 93 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:13,640 And it's really worked. 94 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:15,960 And basically, the whole team uses it. 95 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:19,100 We stand up, talk about what's happening, challenges, 96 00:04:19,100 --> 00:04:20,480 what's going well, what's not. 97 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:23,480 Maybe a piece of equipment's broken that we can't use. 98 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:26,140 Maybe it's about to rain and we need to prioritize something. 99 00:04:26,140 --> 00:04:28,760 So it's really a visual way to represent the work 100 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:30,840 that we're doing on a day-to-day basis. 101 00:04:30,840 --> 00:04:33,760 Stepping back after having gone through a weeding season, 102 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:36,080 it's like, oh, wow, that's why I'm tired, 103 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:38,880 because it looks like scattershot of colors 104 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:40,360 of all the work that we've done. 105 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:42,280 And it's hard to see that in the middle of it. 106 00:04:42,280 --> 00:04:46,000 So the big reveal today was sort of this dramatic zoomed back 107 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:47,040 retrospective look. 108 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:49,280 But when we're in the actual growing season, 109 00:04:49,280 --> 00:04:51,520 we're just filling it in one day at a time. 110 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:54,640 And what are the different colors represent? 111 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:57,720 So each color represents kind of a weed control activity. 112 00:04:57,720 --> 00:04:59,840 So we've got a color for tine weeding, 113 00:04:59,840 --> 00:05:04,320 a color for rotary hoeing, flame weeding, weed zapping. 114 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:06,080 So each kind of activity that we do. 115 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:09,160 And so there's probably about eight or nine different icons 116 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:10,400 that we use. 117 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:15,320 And they repeat over each field and across different crops. 118 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:18,520 And then do you kind of note somehow what the weather was 119 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:21,240 like, like that it was rainy certain days, that kind of thing? 120 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:24,640 Let's not overstate how complicated this thing is. 121 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:25,640 It's a whiteboard. 122 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:26,600 I took the picture out. 123 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:29,040 It's a whiteboard with the dry erase marker. 124 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:30,880 So we just write how much it rained that day. 125 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:34,360 So we're working on actually turning it into a digital tool. 126 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:38,160 So we're working, I have a grant from the Schmidt Foundation 127 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:40,320 and Mad Agriculture to turn it into a tool. 128 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:43,640 Because this all started with a, I have a friend 129 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:44,680 who's a data scientist. 130 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:47,560 So we crunch numbers on our farm with the core question 131 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:50,440 of like what gives us the best yields on our farm? 132 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:52,120 So we looked at every variable we could think of, 133 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:55,480 like rainfall, crop rotation, variety, previous crop, 134 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:58,400 fertility, soil suitability rating. 135 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:01,240 The number one indicator for yield was the frequency 136 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:02,280 of passes. 137 00:06:02,280 --> 00:06:04,920 Said differently, the more often that you're weeding your garden, 138 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:06,040 the better your tomatoes are. 139 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:08,600 Not a rocket science conclusion, but what we found is 140 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:10,560 that we weren't executing well on our farm. 141 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:12,000 We weren't getting those passes done. 142 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:15,160 Maybe a piece of equipment broke down or it rained 143 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:17,600 or whatever deviation occurred. 144 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:19,800 So if we could visualize the work we were doing, 145 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:21,240 it would help us execute better. 146 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:23,320 And so that was the core concept. 147 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:26,200 Now we're turning it into a tool to do that with a team, 148 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:28,360 have standard operating procedures behind it, 149 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:31,600 track the weather digitally so we don't have to transcribe it. 150 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:34,040 And then hopefully generate reports 151 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:36,080 to make an organic certification easier. 152 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:38,160 So we're doing that with open source code. 153 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:41,200 So for those techie farmers that want to do it themselves, 154 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:42,120 that'll be available. 155 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:43,200 Very cool. 156 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:44,240 That's a great idea. 157 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:47,120 And like you said, it also helps you put in context what 158 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:49,040 the season was like a little bit, to stand back 159 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:50,240 and look at that, I would think. 160 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:51,200 It's been a tough year. 161 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:53,640 And so when we've been like, why do I feel so tired? 162 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:55,760 And why does this field look so bad? 163 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:58,880 Being able to look back and say, oh, it's the rainiest April, 164 00:06:58,880 --> 00:06:59,960 May, June record. 165 00:06:59,960 --> 00:07:01,480 And here's what it looks like on our farm. 166 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:02,480 It's a reminder why. 167 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:04,360 And you were talking about the team. 168 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:05,720 Is it two employees? 169 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:08,480 So we're kind of a team of six during the season. 170 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:10,720 So two owners, Matthew and Joe. 171 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:14,120 We have a full time young guy, Evan, American. 172 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:15,680 We've got four H2As. 173 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:17,880 So it's a foreign visa worker program. 174 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:20,640 Got a great group of guys from South Africa that work for us. 175 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:23,200 And then we have a couple of retired part time farmers 176 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:25,680 that also help out seasonally. 177 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:27,840 Joe, is that something you would have found useful when 178 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:30,560 you were getting started in transitioning into organics? 179 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:36,400 Yes, I've been farming organically since 94. 180 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:44,400 And what the farm flow chart gives us is a visual of gaps. 181 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:48,000 And I might want to hit everything perfectly. 182 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:51,320 But when I can look at the graph every morning, 183 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:53,200 I realize, oh, there's a space. 184 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:55,000 And it's a space of number of days 185 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:58,840 in between a particular practice on a particular field. 186 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:02,080 And I can very quickly realize I need 187 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:05,280 to do something at that field today. 188 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:09,480 For anybody that's visual, and I think many or most people are, 189 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:14,240 it's a helpful reminder to get things done in a timely fashion 190 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:15,880 and to keep track of it. 191 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:17,840 That leads me to my other question, which 192 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:20,080 was we looked at your equipment. 193 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:23,240 And we also looked at one of your soybean fields. 194 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:26,880 And Dr. Anna Cates, who's a soil health expert from the U of M, 195 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:28,720 talked a little bit about soil health. 196 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:30,920 But one of the things that struck me was, 197 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:32,840 for an organic operation like this, 198 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:37,280 it is so key for you to be able to track what worked, what didn't, 199 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:39,880 and kind of look at that big picture. 200 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:42,480 Because one thing I think you were talking about 201 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:45,720 was you're not using the same equipment in the same fields 202 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:47,560 every year the same way. 203 00:08:47,560 --> 00:08:50,320 And so you have to sometimes plan your rotation based on, 204 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:51,960 well, what kind of equipment am I going 205 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:54,040 to be using in that field the next? 206 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:57,080 Because, for example, with the tying weeder here, 207 00:08:57,080 --> 00:08:58,700 I think you were talking about, well, 208 00:08:58,700 --> 00:09:00,840 if this is going to be corn in that field, 209 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:02,640 it's basically a dump loader because it's 210 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:03,400 going to be collecting. 211 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:05,200 But can you talk a little bit about how important that 212 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:06,000 is a little bit? 213 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:09,680 Yeah, so I think the tools that we use on our farm 214 00:09:09,680 --> 00:09:11,920 are pretty specialized. 215 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:13,400 And so they're sequins. 216 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:18,800 And so specific to the tying weeder, it's a dense harrow. 217 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:22,040 And so basically, it's going to be really effective at uprooting 218 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:23,600 weeds. 219 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:26,240 It's also going to be really effective at collecting debris. 220 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:28,720 And so if we're coming off of a corn crop, 221 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:30,560 we'll have a lot of debris from that corn crop 222 00:09:30,560 --> 00:09:31,480 in the previous year. 223 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:34,880 So we may be unable to use that tying weeder 224 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:36,160 if we've got too much debris. 225 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:38,080 And so we have to think about our tillage 226 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:39,240 that preceding year. 227 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:41,000 If we're going to plan to use a tying weeder, 228 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:43,560 we need to be either more aggressive with our tillage 229 00:09:43,560 --> 00:09:45,960 or be mindful if we're going to use a cover crop that we're 230 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:47,960 managing the residue from that cover crop. 231 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:49,240 Three-dimensioned truss. 232 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:50,400 Yeah, yeah. 233 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:51,880 Yeah, that's a good way to put it. 234 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:53,840 So speaking of soil health, one of the things 235 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:55,680 we were talking about out there, which 236 00:09:55,680 --> 00:09:58,880 is kind of that age-old, as Dr. Cates put, 237 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:02,000 push-pull of balancing. 238 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:04,400 If you're going to be using, if you're going to be conventional 239 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:05,680 and you're using chemicals, you're 240 00:10:05,680 --> 00:10:09,440 kind of doing a biological disturbance of that soil. 241 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:12,520 If you're doing organics, you're building your biology 242 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:14,480 and you're not disturbing it biologically, 243 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:18,040 but you are disturbing it a fair amount structurally. 244 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:25,320 It's a trade-off that we know that undisturbed soil has 245 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:26,960 a certain vitality. 246 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:31,200 And when we disturb it out of necessity for weed control, 247 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:33,720 there's a certain cost to that. 248 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:35,640 I think some of the crop rotation, 249 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:40,520 the utilization of manure, cover crops, those systems 250 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:43,880 in organic, especially organic, but conventional people 251 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:46,320 can do that too, that helps offset some 252 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:48,200 of the negatives of tillage. 253 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:50,520 But I would say we're always trying 254 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:53,840 to figure out improvements. 255 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:56,480 And so can we till differently? 256 00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:58,800 Can we till better? 257 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:04,120 Can we change our rotation so that our net gain in soil health 258 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:05,520 is positive? 259 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:08,120 Yeah, I think that's a good point. 260 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:10,200 And Tom Connor talks about this a lot. 261 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:14,120 I've been to his field days too, where in the short term, 262 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:16,560 he may be doing some harm, quote unquote, 263 00:11:16,560 --> 00:11:19,720 but he looks at it multiple years down the road. 264 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:22,360 Is he building that soil resiliency 265 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:24,080 kind of in the long term? 266 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:27,120 It's also like, I think it's easy to think 267 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:30,760 of life in binaries, good, bad, black, white. 268 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:33,080 And most things are gray. 269 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:35,240 And agriculture really is gray. 270 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:37,600 And fundamentally, it's an extractive endeavor. 271 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:41,640 And so good, bad, I'm part of a group called the climate land 272 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:45,160 leaders, which are a group of landowners, more so 273 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:48,120 than farmers, that are thinking about stewardship 274 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:51,200 in a long term framework for climate change. 275 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:53,960 So one of the tensions that I find in that group is a lot of them 276 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:57,160 are inclined to do a no-till management system. 277 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:01,760 But they're heavily relying on atrazine and synthetic inputs 278 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:04,680 that are actually a much more significant carbon 279 00:12:04,680 --> 00:12:06,080 impact on the environment. 280 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:08,760 All these things are trade-offs all the time. 281 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:11,040 And in our context, our conventional neighbors 282 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:13,560 are tilling the same as we are in terms 283 00:12:13,560 --> 00:12:15,720 of aggressive tillage in the fall. 284 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:18,440 And so it's not as though our neighbors, at least 285 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:20,880 in our central Minnesota context, 286 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:23,960 I can't think of a single no-till farmer in our county. 287 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:29,040 So it's not as though they're doing better than we are. 288 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:32,840 So I think I'm careful to think it all exists on a spectrum. 289 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:36,840 Speaking of climate change, I'm glad you brought that up. 290 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:38,600 I mean, we've seen the two extremes. 291 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:40,480 It must make it much more difficult. 292 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:44,320 The past years, we've really seen that struggle. 293 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:46,640 And I think you had talked about, Matthew, 294 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:49,640 this idea that for organic farmers, 295 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:52,440 it's even more because timing is so key. 296 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:55,520 You can't just come in with maybe, well, let's talk about it. 297 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:58,120 I like this kind of the way you describe it. 298 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:01,080 The conventional farmer has a couple big hammers they can use. 299 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:03,600 You have a lot of little hammers. 300 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:06,600 But those little hammers rely on really good timing. 301 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:07,120 Right. 302 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:09,200 We're really on the front lines of climate change 303 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:10,240 as organic farmers. 304 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:12,240 We're much more vulnerable to those swings. 305 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:15,640 We don't have the same cover-up tools. 306 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:16,760 Talk about this hammer. 307 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:19,200 I like this idea of the little hammers and several little 308 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:19,700 hammers. 309 00:13:19,700 --> 00:13:21,640 And then the commission will have more access 310 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:24,080 to a couple big hammers that they can kind of come in. 311 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:24,400 Right. 312 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:28,320 I think that's an idea we should credit Sam Oswald for that. 313 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:32,920 Yeah, I think we think about our weed management as a system. 314 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:35,880 These little tools that we're applying sequentially 315 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:38,280 and in sort of an art form approach 316 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:42,920 to get the results that a single herbicide pass would do. 317 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:44,320 And we looked at the soybean field. 318 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:46,280 And the way you described it was, 319 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:47,800 I thought it looked pretty good. 320 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:49,600 A little bit of weed issues, but you said, 321 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:52,000 well, this is an example of in a wet year like this, 322 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:53,620 there was just a lot of little hammers 323 00:13:53,620 --> 00:13:56,760 we didn't have access to in a situation like that. 324 00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:58,960 Yeah, it's certainly not our prettiest field. 325 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:01,320 But I think that's probably the most honest field 326 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:02,520 that you can have. 327 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:04,720 I think it was really good that we looked at equipment. 328 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:06,400 Because one of the things I think 329 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:08,880 where you're trying to strike that balance of maybe 330 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:13,560 reducing cultivation or using soil disturbance 331 00:14:13,560 --> 00:14:15,840 and keeping that soil intact is you're 332 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:20,080 using techniques like flame weeding and the weed zapper 333 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:21,320 with the electrical system. 334 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:24,320 Those seem like it's a good example of we 335 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:26,640 are seeing more of these innovations that can maybe 336 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:28,160 help strike that balance. 337 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:30,320 I know some people have worked with roller crimping. 338 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:31,160 That's another way. 339 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:32,960 Not get swept up on the latest thing. 340 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:35,560 And it just is a hot trend that isn't really working. 341 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:37,160 But you really have to pay attention 342 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:39,480 to how is this going to fit into my system a little bit. 343 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:41,680 Yeah, as a weed zapper, as an example, 344 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:45,600 we had a neighbor weed zap for us for a couple of years. 345 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:48,440 We had some custom hiring done for a few years. 346 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:52,280 So we're cautious to jump into anything too quickly ourselves. 347 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:55,680 And I think no silver bullet, maybe silver buckshot, 348 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:57,760 it's just going to be little pieces. 349 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:01,040 I would say the technology available to us, 350 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:04,280 the innovations, it doesn't even have to be technology. 351 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:07,400 Clever tools that are available are 352 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:12,600 a result of American innovation, a lot of European components 353 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:14,160 based on their experience. 354 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:18,080 I'd have to say the tools that we have available to us 355 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:23,040 and other organic farmers is more diverse, more sophisticated, 356 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:26,040 more effective now than it certainly was 30 years ago 357 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:27,040 when I began. 358 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:31,640 Give me an idea of what is your general rotation 359 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:33,560 that you're using right now. 360 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:35,360 Starting out in transition, we would probably 361 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:37,800 be first year dry yellow peas. 362 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:40,400 Harvest those peas, seed a winter wheat. 363 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:41,760 That would overwinter. 364 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:44,720 Harvest that winter wheat, apply a cover crop, 365 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:48,720 cover crop plus some manure, cover crop over winters, 366 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:52,840 roll into corn, corn soybeans, then maybe another corn crop, 367 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:55,880 then maybe a small grain crop or an edible bean crop 368 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:56,880 or something. 369 00:15:56,880 --> 00:16:00,200 Like you said, that diversity really does over time, 370 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:01,280 helps really build that. 371 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:03,560 We had a nice panel discussion of marketing. 372 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:07,840 And that organics has, there's many more options 373 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:08,680 than there used to be. 374 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:10,840 And I heard some, I was sitting at lunch 375 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:13,000 with some folks who were talking about the old days 376 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:15,240 when they sent a truck off and they didn't know 377 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:17,320 if they were ever gonna see their check again, 378 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:18,280 things like that. 379 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:19,680 But it's gotten a lot better. 380 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:22,280 But one of the points, really good point you made was 381 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:23,880 that it is still a little difficult 382 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:25,960 in that there's not really a futures market 383 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:28,000 where you can do price discovery and all that. 384 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:29,840 Can you talk a little bit about some of the challenges 385 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:32,520 that kind of still remain in organics right now? 386 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:35,440 Yeah, I think a new organic farmer would struggle 387 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:37,840 because so much of it is relationships still 388 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:39,400 that they wouldn't necessarily know 389 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:40,760 who are the good buyers and bad buyers. 390 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:42,760 Because there still are good buyers and bad buyers. 391 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:44,520 There are still people that won't pay 392 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:47,440 or have some shady practices. 393 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:49,080 And unless you have that experience, 394 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:50,360 you're not gonna know. 395 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:53,960 And that also translates to the contracting terms. 396 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:56,160 Are they pricing you or not? 397 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:59,640 And generally there's gonna be a little bit of a premium 398 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:01,720 within a premium if you have a relationship. 399 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:05,640 Meaning like you've sold to this buyer many times, 400 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:06,720 there's a relationship there. 401 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:09,120 They feel like you're gonna be able to produce what you say. 402 00:17:09,120 --> 00:17:10,600 You're gonna be able to produce the qualities 403 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:12,360 of what you're gonna say you're gonna be able to do. 404 00:17:12,360 --> 00:17:13,480 And that goes two ways 405 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:14,960 because we've also had relationships 406 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:18,040 where the buyer's gonna maybe be a little bit more lenient. 407 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:21,600 Your moisture instead of 15% is 16%. 408 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:22,440 Instead of rejecting it, 409 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:24,680 they're gonna accept that slightly higher moisture. 410 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:26,800 You know, and that only happens through this sort of 411 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:28,600 back and forth type of relationship. 412 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:31,600 And that's difficult if you're starting from zero. 413 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,120 Yeah, so that relationship, that really came through. 414 00:17:34,120 --> 00:17:37,120 Folks were talking about how important that relationship is, 415 00:17:37,120 --> 00:17:39,040 even more so than where you can just take it 416 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:42,120 to the elevator for conventional, that kind of thing. 417 00:17:42,120 --> 00:17:45,200 I think Matthew's description of the relationships 418 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:50,080 being important in marketing is also a hallmark of organics 419 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:53,160 that it's a friendly network. 420 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:55,360 It's not necessarily competitive. 421 00:17:55,360 --> 00:17:58,600 That there's a great deal of information sharing, 422 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:01,400 including what are you getting paid for your crop? 423 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:03,400 How do you market it? 424 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:07,920 Which would be counter-cultural for much of agriculture. 425 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:10,960 The organic farmers aren't necessarily more virtuous, 426 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:13,720 but it's just a friendly network 427 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:15,440 where there's a lot of cooperation. 428 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:18,360 I guess this is a question about advice for other folks. 429 00:18:18,360 --> 00:18:20,240 And you had a great thing where you said 430 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:22,040 people will call you sometimes. 431 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:24,680 Could you tell me when people call you for say, 432 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:26,280 yeah, I'm thinking about going organic. 433 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:29,120 And the first thing you ask them a very important question. 434 00:18:29,120 --> 00:18:30,480 And I think that is a good question. 435 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:32,240 So can you tell us what you ask them? 436 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:34,600 This is a question asked in the land of 10,000 lakes. 437 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:37,280 So let's give it some context too for our listeners in Iowa 438 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:38,800 that are not so blessed. 439 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:41,560 My first question is, do you own a fishing boat? 440 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:43,560 And then the quick answer is yes. 441 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:45,400 And then I say, well, you're going to have to sell it. 442 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:48,720 Meaning you're going to work all summer. 443 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:50,800 I think that's, and this is prime example, 444 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:53,520 and you're constantly plant like that flow chart, 445 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:54,480 not flow chart, what'd you call it? 446 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:55,320 Farm flow. 447 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:56,160 Farm flow, I like that. 448 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:58,360 You're going to trade that, Mark, that area. 449 00:18:58,360 --> 00:19:02,120 Yeah, the farm flow shows that you really are going to have to, 450 00:19:02,120 --> 00:19:03,760 and I think you said you're better off 451 00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:06,040 buying an ice house to go ice fishing. 452 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:08,920 But do you have any other advice that's maybe 453 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:11,120 a little more specific? 454 00:19:11,120 --> 00:19:13,640 Is it going to just get them to hang up the phone and go, 455 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:15,560 oh my gosh, I'm never going to do this again? 456 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:18,720 Yeah, really, the counter to the friendly part about organics 457 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:21,960 is I would say the mentorship is critical. 458 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:26,160 And to point to organizations like Marble Seed and the USDA 459 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:28,960 program and LSP and others that are doing that, 460 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:31,160 that you're not going to be able to learn everything 461 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:34,440 from a single field day or a single conference attendance 462 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:37,840 that each year is so different, that it takes years 463 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:38,880 to learn the process. 464 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:43,040 And so having a mentor that's in your context, 465 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:45,040 either the same cropping, the same geographic, 466 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:47,040 the same soil type, that is going 467 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:48,480 to be critical for anybody's success. 468 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:49,880 And that's been part of our success 469 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:51,680 is we've had mentors, we've had friends, 470 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:53,400 we've had people that have helped us. 471 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:55,640 I certainly saw that today. 472 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:57,560 I think the lunch is sometimes the most important part 473 00:19:57,560 --> 00:19:59,720 of these field days because folks are getting together 474 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:01,040 and sharing information. 475 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:03,320 Some people knew each other, but some had never 476 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:04,200 heard of each other. 477 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:06,960 And so yeah, it was really good to see that farmer 478 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:08,240 to farmer networking. 479 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:11,000 One of the things I wanted to ask you about, Joe, 480 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:17,800 is that you said you've been doing organic since 1994. 481 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:20,560 So that's pretty early in the movement. 482 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:23,560 It was before we had a national standard and all of that. 483 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:25,360 I guess I'd like to ask you more about what 484 00:20:25,360 --> 00:20:26,600 you saw in organics. 485 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:33,200 So you're probably like me a little bit 486 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:35,920 of someone who came through the farm crisis, 487 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:38,640 saw the results of that. 488 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:40,760 What was it about organics specifically 489 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:43,360 that really you saw that that was maybe the future? 490 00:20:43,360 --> 00:20:45,920 And you've been able to prove it here. 491 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:48,600 We're several years down the road here now. 492 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:52,360 Well, part of my background is studying theology 493 00:20:52,360 --> 00:20:54,280 in graduate school. 494 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:57,720 And people come to their faith story 495 00:20:57,720 --> 00:20:59,640 through all sorts of ways. 496 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:03,000 The religious community, Catholic, Protestant, 497 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:06,960 the institutions, the congregations, the individuals 498 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:09,840 were very much involved in the farm crisis in the 80s, 499 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:12,720 helping to call out the problem, helping 500 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:15,440 to support people that were really struggling 501 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:19,360 through those very difficult years, 502 00:21:19,360 --> 00:21:24,480 and also calling for solutions to preserve the family farm 503 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:26,760 to heal the environment. 504 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:31,000 Out of that time, there was a renewed interest 505 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:35,280 in environmentally friendly farming. 506 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:38,080 There were private and government programs 507 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:40,480 that took on women's names. 508 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:43,560 There was LISA, Low Input, Sustainable Agriculture. 509 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:47,600 There was CERA, Sustainable Agriculture Research, 510 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:49,720 Association for Education. 511 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:54,000 So sort of the society was wrestling with what's 512 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:55,600 the future look like. 513 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:59,240 And organic agriculture has been around for a long time. 514 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:06,320 Europe, of course, has had a richer history than the US. 515 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:07,920 But there's a lot of experience there. 516 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:12,080 And out of that time, organics really 517 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:14,960 started to get a foothold here in the US. 518 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:19,760 People approached it for philosophical reasons, faith 519 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:21,760 reasons, economic reasons. 520 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:27,040 And the economic premium was not as great in the early days 521 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:27,880 as it is now. 522 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:30,760 And it's not easy money at all. 523 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:32,440 I don't know any organic farmer that 524 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:35,160 cashes a grain check or livestock check 525 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:36,960 and says, boy, that was easy money. 526 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:37,680 People earn it. 527 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:42,480 But it's more of a developed network, a developed economy 528 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:43,280 now. 529 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:46,880 So for ourselves, we say we're in organics 530 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:49,640 for philosophical and economic reasons. 531 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,480 Looking down the road now 30 years, 532 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:56,000 it must be pretty satisfying to see a son of yours kind 533 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:57,680 of transitioning into this. 534 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:04,280 We began this farm out of my wife's and my love of farming 535 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:07,560 and rural and agriculture and the environment. 536 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:10,480 We don't have a multi-generation farm 537 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:13,400 that we have to find somebody within the family to continue. 538 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:15,720 No, our kids grew up in the farm. 539 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:20,040 They learned all the wonderful responsibilities and lessons 540 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:21,680 within farming. 541 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:25,960 But we had no expectation that our son or daughter would 542 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,240 necessarily go into agriculture. 543 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:29,400 That was our gig. 544 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:30,920 And it's been a good life. 545 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:34,120 So it's wonderful to see people of all ages, 546 00:23:34,120 --> 00:23:38,280 but especially young people, to get involved and offer 547 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,840 important leadership for agriculture, 548 00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:43,400 and in this case, organic agriculture. 549 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:45,400 It is that whole thing of, is this 550 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:46,520 going to be a one-off thing? 551 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:50,600 But like you said, you got this thing started. 552 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:53,000 You weren't super tied into, since it wasn't something 553 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:54,840 you had inherited from family, you 554 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,560 didn't feel that responsibility maybe to continue it. 555 00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:01,240 But now it is, like Matthew said, 556 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:04,840 it's kind of 1.5 generation kind of thing, generational farming. 557 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:06,760 It is, yeah, you've been able to kind of, 558 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:08,560 it seems like you're working well together 559 00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:10,480 and you've got this team going. 560 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,120 And there were some young farmers here today 561 00:24:13,120 --> 00:24:14,720 who don't have a whole lot of, there was people 562 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:15,720 who have a lot of experience. 563 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:17,320 Some that don't have much experience 564 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:18,480 and are just looking into it. 565 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,600 And I think that's a sign that they see a future maybe 566 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:22,880 for something like this. 567 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:24,920 It's kind of exciting, I think. 568 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:25,760 It's very exciting. 569 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:27,480 It's hope for the future. 570 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:32,040 And I'm delighted for the industry of clean food, 571 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:34,040 healthy food, organic food. 572 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:36,800 People are interested in what they're eating 573 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:40,440 and what their food system is looking like. 574 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:53,160 For more on organic crop production, see the podcast 575 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,960 page for Ear to the Ground episode 355 576 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,760 at LandStewardshipProject.org. 577 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:01,440 If you have comments or suggestions about this podcast, 578 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:06,080 contact Brian DeVore at bdevor at LandStewardshipProject.org 579 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:10,800 or you can call 612-816-9342. 580 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:13,080 It helps us greatly if you can give Ear to the Ground 581 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:16,600 a rating on whatever podcast platform you utilize. 582 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:18,360 And word of mouth is the best way 583 00:25:18,360 --> 00:25:20,640 to spread the news about our podcast. 584 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,120 If you like what you hear, tell at least one person 585 00:25:23,120 --> 00:25:25,360 about LSP's Ear to the Ground. 586 00:25:25,360 --> 00:25:27,960 Thanks to Laura Borgendal, Western Minnesota musician, 587 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:29,680 for Ear to the Ground's theme music. 588 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:32,320 And a special thank you to all of Land Stewardship Project's 589 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,880 members who make initiatives such as this podcast possible. 590 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:39,240 If you're not a member, visit LandStewardshipProject.org 591 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:42,000 to learn how you can support LSP. 592 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaking of the value of LSP membership, 593 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:46,480 Joe Fitzgerald shares a long history 594 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:47,960 with the Land Stewardship Project. 595 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,640 At the end of our interview, he wanted to share these thoughts 596 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,800 as LSP wraps up its 42nd year of working to keep 597 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:55,960 the land and people together. 598 00:25:55,960 --> 00:26:00,120 I'm grateful for the really over four decades worth 599 00:26:00,120 --> 00:26:02,800 of Land Stewardship Project's leadership here 600 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,320 in the upper Midwest and in Minnesota in particular. 601 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:09,280 And my own roots with LSP go back many decades. 602 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:11,600 The organization that I headed up many years ago 603 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,560 was a fiscal agent for LSP when it began. 604 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,480 I served on the board for a number of years. 605 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:20,520 I've been delighted and proud of what 606 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:24,840 LSP has done for Minnesota and the upper Midwest, 607 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:28,160 and really on many national issues as well. 608 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:31,880 It continues to exert leadership and creativity 609 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,440 for improving communities. 610 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:36,480 We appreciate those kind words, Joe. 611 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,760 LSP couldn't do it without committed members 612 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:39,840 such as yourself. 613 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,600 And to all of you out there, thanks for listening. 614 00:26:42,600 --> 00:27:06,040 定位