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Massive failures. Massive, massive failures. I'm not nuts and I'm not insane.

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I just needed a victory year to confirm that.

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Music

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Welcome to the 353rd installment of Ear to the Ground, the Land Stewardship Projects podcast on family farming,

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regenerative agriculture, community food systems, and local democracy.

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I'm Brian DeVore, editor of the Land Stewardship Letter.

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John and Karen Stevens are raising corn and soybeans pretty much on the edge of where such row crops can be grown successfully in Minnesota.

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They have 750 crop and pasture acres in Pine County, which is north of Minnesota's Twin Cities.

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To give you an idea of how far north that is, there are times they've had to use tillage to fix damage black bears reek on their fields.

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As John puts it, the flat landscape of the farm can be pretty unforgiving when the rain falls,

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fast turning into a surface so hard that water can barely penetrate.

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Over the years, farming in such a harsh environment has prompted Maple Grove Farm to rely on moldboard plowing and other forms of intense tillage to tame the soil.

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But during a recent field day sponsored by the Minnesota Soil Health Coalition, University of Minnesota Extension, and the State Department of Agriculture, among others,

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the Stevenses were able to show how soil health practices like no-till, cover cropping, and rotational grazing of beef cattle have made those acres a little less ornery and a lot more productive.

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In fact, the evening before the field day, a guy named Jay Fear confirmed that the Stevenses are on the right track

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when he walked one of their fields and was duly impressed with how its aggregate structure and overall biological health had improved.

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It turns out Jay had walked these same fields seven years ago, so he had a handy frame of reference for comparison.

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And when Jay Fear takes a look at a farm's soil, people tend to listen to what he has to say.

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When Jay was with the USDA's Natural Resources Conservation Service, he was instrumental in developing the Burleigh County Soil Health Team in North Dakota.

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That team, which consisted of farmers like Gabe Brown, government natural resource experts, and scientists,

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played a key role in sparking the current soil health revolution we're seeing in this country and beyond.

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Today, Jay travels widely as a soil health consultant and speaker.

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During the Stevenses field day, presentations focused on water infiltration and soil aggregate structure, as well as a pasture walk, confirmed what Jay had observed the evening before.

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John and Karen are bringing their soil back to life in a growing region that doesn't provide much margin of error.

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After the field day, I talked to John Stevens about what's changed during the past seven years,

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the lessons learned from failures, and the excitement he and Karen are experiencing as they see the land respond to regenerative practices.

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We got about 750 acres total between all the hay acres and the row crop acres.

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The cows with the herd, we got 33 cows plus the calves that go with them, and then the steers we hold back for finish for freezer beef to direct to consumer.

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So we got 60 acres roughly stay for the grazing for the herd.

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Then we got a couple small acres for the steers because we are grass finish on the steers.

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So they get a couple little three acre paddocks and then we do have to supplement them a little bit in the summertime with some other baled up hays and silages and stuff, you know, sorghums.

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And then the row crop acres, we're at about 550 acres, 500 to 550 we bounce around on the row crop side.

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And we try to be as regenerative as we can.

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This year with all the rain made that a little bit of a challenge. So, you know, you pull your old tools out of the tool shed and like this year, the row crop cultivator paid off because that soil was just so wet, so anaerobic.

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We've row crop cultivated and I bet that did more for us than any of the fertilizers we did.

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So the whole point of regenerative is we're not trying to be the next Dave Hula or Randy Dowdy.

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And I don't live in that area. Nobody's making 500 bush of corn up here within this century, but I can still learn from them guys.

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And so to be more regenerative and save on spreading a lot of just high salt load fertilizers, we focus more on the point of influence, plant testing, what they, you know, the four Rs, the right time, the right placement and the right growth stage and the right product.

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And so it's really paying off this year.

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Some of the no-till, is that an important part of your farm?

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Yeah, yep, yep. We'll rotate no-till through. Our soil here is kind of a sandy loam with some clay in it.

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And years ago, years ago, one of the soil scientists from the U of M was asked about doing, they were doing a no-till conference in southern Minnesota.

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And they were asked, you know, what would you do in southern Vying County for no-till? And the scientist is like, oh, ick, just keep doing tillage.

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And so our soil can turn to concrete like really fast. And so your first year of no-till, you're like, this is the greatest thing ever.

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The third year of no-till, you're like, ah, God, this is stupid.

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And so it's a very challenge, but I think the cover crops and the cattle, so where we're standing, we have five 30 acre pasture bays.

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And so every year now we're starting that rotation where one's always coming out for corn or soybeans, probably come out for corn because we graze alfalfa.

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And so one will come out and one is always going back in. And then depending on the year and the other rotations, we bounce that around a little bit.

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The no-till here works good because we can go in if we pull. So like right now we're staring at pasture one that just came out of grass, went to corn.

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And then we can either no-till grass back into the corn stumps or we can put in a small grains with a forage underneath it.

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You know, a nurse crop, that way we can try to maximize, you know, we're making money per acre is our goal.

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And so, hey, if I put a wheat crop out there and it does OK, you don't even have to do great.

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If it just does OK, then right behind that wheat crop, we've got a forage.

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And I don't know about you guys, but I'll tell you what, you roll up alfalfa and some clover and grasses with some wheat straw in it,

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them beef cows, they'll fight you to the death to get to that bale. That's some good feed, you know.

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And yes, that works really good. So we're learning how to move the dirt less.

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I grew up on the mow board and I remember watching the soil blow away every time it wind and washed away every time.

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We use a tube right behind you as a ditch. And when I was a kid, every time we hit, you know, when I was a kid, a three or four inch rain event was like once a year.

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But we had so much runoff, I could tube that ditch.

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On an inner tube?

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On an inner tube. And now I used to mud bog right over here with the three wheeler all the time.

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And now we're driving around with the, you know, a four wheeler of a similar size as the old three wheeler.

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We've never been stuck with, you know, it's amazing.

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And you think that's because your water infiltration is just that much better?

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The water infiltration or soil structure. And I'll tell you what, Jay, Jay Feer today, oh, he made my life.

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We pulled some samples. So he was here seven years ago when we were really getting into this journey.

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And he's like, hey, I remember trying to get a shovel in back then.

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And now, like, I can drop a shovel in and I got some soil that if you don't want it, I'll come get it.

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And so now I can proudly say that, like, I say this tongue in cheek, like not insulting, but, you know, the guys in Iowa and Minnesota with that six percent organic matter stuff that's full tillage,

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you can keep it because this stuff's working.

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Well, and you're you're really on the edge of the corn, soybean, grow area here. You're in Pine County.

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And plus, you said that this soil can be kind of unfair. It can be kind of ornery, kind of unforgiving here.

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Our margin of error. So like a lot of times on corn, we won't replant because by the time you get much after June 1st,

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you might as well switch to beans because you aren't replanting corn on June 1st.

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We don't have much room for error for that kind of stuff. Eleven miles north of here was when I grew up was the cutoff for row crops for the most part.

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They grew some corn up there. Most of it was for silage, you know, a little bit for high moisture corn and a random load made it to the cities.

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And beans, there wasn't a whole lot of beans up there, but they're coming in now, you know, as the cattle have moved out.

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Now the guys got to row crop the land and the hybrids have changed. But yeah, historically speaking, we're 11 miles from the end of row crop production on eastern Minnesota.

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Wow. So you really do have to, you know, what you like to say, you don't have much margin for error.

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Yeah. Jay was here seven years ago. What do you feel like you've done differently in the past seven years?

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Because he was he talked I just did a podcast interview with Jay and he's super impressed.

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Just him trying to make you feel good. He's impressed. That's the best 20 bucks I ever gave him. Yeah, there you go.

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And so it's his anniversary. So he's in a good mood. So yeah, what what do you feel like you've done in the past seven years that's really changed things?

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Massive failures, massive, massive failures. We tried a planting green experiment one time, except we went in with non GMO beans.

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That was just a complete disaster. We tried a barley. There was a guy that wanted barley and we're like, gosh, barley would be awesome. We could put that barley in and then cover crop behind it and get set up with a green miner for corn.

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Put most of the farm into barley. And a few days after we seeded it, it was a complete just nightmare of weather.

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And by the time we realized that the crop wasn't worth a dang, you're already too late to put in beans. So you're stuck with it. Crop insurance doesn't pay much on barley.

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And so we we had a couple years there were complete upside down. I did have some successes. We had some absolutely magnificent successes with cover crops very early into corn, which blew my mind.

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Because you're always told that if corn has competition early, you know, you're taking away yield. And here we are with with this beautiful oats and buckwheat and rye grass and hairy vetch and just this magnificent grass crop in our corn.

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And so you take your successes and your failures and you put them together and the lesson you learn from each where they meet in the middle. I'd like to think is where I'm getting my success. And now this year we buckled down.

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And for most my life, I had an off farm job where that came first. So the farm also came second. So then now this year, I just we quit both my life and I quit our off farm jobs, came home to work with my dad in the repair business to help him move on.

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Retirement and for us to help finish buying the farm. And this year was the first year in a long time that I just farm when it came time to plant. I closed the door on the shop and I focused on that planter.

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And I'll tell you when you drive out, you see that corn behind you and you see them beans up there. You tell me I'm lying. If that means someone more beautiful you've seen in the area.

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So it's working and I'm glad I finally got a year to be a farmer. Not to prove to anybody but just for myself. Like I'm not nuts and I'm not insane. I just needed a victory year to confirm that.

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It's tough when you know when you got you know I have a lot of great neighbors and like I said it's a tough area and I applaud all my neighbors for being successful.

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But there's a few guys in the coffee shops that are like you're going to be bankrupt you know you're the worst farmer in the area you have the worst fields blah blah blah.

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And now this year you're you're blowing them away because you're like you know what just let me figure this out. Give me time and let me figure this out.

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And I got a lot of you know for the for every one neighbor you have like that. I have a lot of tremendous neighbors here that are like hey that you know the older guys they're like a lot of what you're doing is what I did as a kid.

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You know keep it up good luck and and there's a lot of neighbors like when you get that figured out you let us know because in this tough climate of corn and beans there ain't any profit margin especially right now with with way prices are.

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I wonder is one thing that's changed in the last seven years was livestock such a key it seems like it's become a key part of your operation here.

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Yeah yeah we had a great marriage and then we went back into cattle.

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Now she has a great marriage with her cattle. So we've got rid of the dairy back in 03 and you could see the ground just kind of just slowly and everybody around here will say it like when they take over an old dairy farm.

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Year after year it gets tougher to maintain or improve yields because the soil just starts going backwards and so with the integration of the cows back that's their job.

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Their job the meat is the byproduct their first job is to get this farm going so like the food grade soybeans behind you over there we had zero purchase P and K for that I will never have to buy P and K from the co-op on this whole 150 acres section of the farm again because every winter.

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You put out more in P and K in one winter with the hay through them cows than I could afford to buy ever I mean you're you're literally we did the math on that field there the other year and it turned out to be I think we had close to 300 pounds of potassium actual potassium.

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Got spread through the hay and applied to that field through hay and carbon you know but think of the dollars in today's price that field wouldn't even need cows for 10 years.

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We just get some biology going and there I can use the hay for other fields because that one set for the rest of my life.

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So when did you bring the cows back?

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18, 2018, 6 years yep so we bought 10 cows then like beef you lose a third right away so we lost three cows right away.

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We did buy really good genetics from a neighbor right across the road and then we've we've held every heifer back since then we've done a tiny bit of culling but we've tried to grow the herd so in them couple years we went from basically 7 to 33 and they are performing.

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They look great I went out there and somebody said some guy who knows what he's talking about said he gave him body score I think seven and a half.

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That's a cattle junk.

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Yes and I that stuff and the the paddocks look great and they were really just good natured and they didn't care that we were walking around out there just in general you can tell there really some good husbandry there and they're really having a nice impact.

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Can you describe just in general kind of in the bit you kind of have this rotation then where you're you will graze cattle it sounds like you'll put in some permanent pasture the permanent paddocks or and then you putting in the corn and the soybeans after what's kind of your general how many years cycle or can you describe a big big scale rotation that you have here.

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The goal the goal would be in a perfect scenario of four years of alfalfa grass then it's going to come out for one or two years for cash crops take advantage of what we've built up for fertilizer and then right back into alfalfa grass so we got five bays so the goal hopefully would be one's always coming out one's always going back in and then one might be hay might be cash crop feel it by the year because we still have our other fields that we can rotate alfalfa grass.

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As a hay field through to rotate your other fields so you just kind of play it by ear but in a perfect scenario if this was our only thing four years two years off back to four years and so last night you were describing yours kind of Jake you kind of took a walk out here and he was taking some soil samples.

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Yeah, and he kind of changed your mind a little bit on on on a practice that you like to do which is which is moldboard plowing did you just tell that story I think that's a really it's kind of shows it's like well okay you know.

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Yeah, so I had thought you know because of the damage on some of these fields and like this ditch here, I will take the moldboard and roll that ditch shot because we don't have water leave in the fields like we used to so why have a ditch cutting a field in half, so I will move over that spot but I thought behind the cows.

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Let's move or this green manure down and with all that habean spread like that can't be that bad of a negative and then last night we walked that field of rye and that was one of the fields that was going to get more board because it's got some ruts in it and the cattle have the bears have dug holes up on the hill.

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Oh yeah yeah there's there's a lot of damage to that field and the cow traffic and so it's just kind of a miserable field and I thought boy I hate if I can't go six or seven miles an hour on a hay field you know so that while more board that field and start over and then we started digging

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around in there and and seeing the soil how much it's just improved in a couple years and you're like oh god I can't I can't move over this like we've came way too far so now we had to change our plans that okay instead of more boarding next year we're just going to have to

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no till the wheat with with an alfalfa grass nurse crop mix and we're just going to have to dust it up with a finisher or just use prescription or zone tillage to hit them nasty spots and leave everything else and yep we got us some necessary evil we have to do but yeah yeah.

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And then Jake and come back in seven years and see how it went more years that'd be awesome so how old are you I am 4948 49 somewhere in there so it sounds like you've been farming in how long I was born on this farm.

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I was six years old in the field right over here at six years old we had a farm all 350 that my dad and grandpa bought brand new from South was hardware in Pine City, and we still have grandpa's age in the back shed that was new and 47 and they have 350 was in 56 or 58 somewhere there.

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And yeah six years old we had the old harrow so dad would mow board and then disc it a couple times and then before the brilliant you had that old four bar pipe harrow. And so he put me on the farm all 350 and no fenders you know no fenders no seatbelt.

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Don't fall off kid and put me in gear and smack me on the back and give her hell and I've never, I've never looked back since at 10 or 12 years old he'd have to come out to the field to get me. You can come home now you can come home now.

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Yeah, well it sounds like you're still you're having fun or maybe you maybe you didn't have fun for a while but now you're having fun you know like anything there was some tough years in there and and you know the biggest thing is I can complain about the challenges of my area, but it

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don't matter where you go you could find challenges to your area, but it's just it's just acknowledging them challenges and then figuring out what do I need to do to correct these issues that I'm having.

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And so, yeah, gotta stay positive.

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By the way, the next ear to the ground episode will feature the interview I did with Jay fear at the Stevens's farm. For more on building soil health profitably see the podcast page for your to the ground episode 353 at land stewardship project.org.

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If you have comments or suggestions about this podcast, contact Brian Davor at be Davor at land stewardship project.org or you can call 612-816-9342. By the way, it helps us greatly. If you can give your to the ground a rating on whatever podcast platform you utilize and word of mouth is the best way to spread the news about our podcast.

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If you like what you hear, tell at least one person about LSP's ear to the ground. Thanks to Lora Borgendal, Western Minnesota musician for the theme music and a special thank you to all of land stewardship projects members who make initiatives such as this podcast possible.

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If you're not a member, visit land stewardship project.org to learn how you can support LSP. Thanks for listening.