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Whether it's beneficial insects that's controlling them, whether it's your soil practices you're doing, I don't know.

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But he said something's working. I always was taught you try and leave the ground in better shape than when you took it over.

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I think we're doing that. We're seeing our organic manner numbers are going up and yields aren't hurt at all and actually saving us a lot of work in some ways.

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Welcome to the 351st installment of Ear to the Ground, the land stewardship projects podcast on family farming,

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regenerative agriculture, community food systems and local democracy.

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I'm Brian DeVore, editor of the Land Stewardship Letter.

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Jerry and Nancy Ackerman have been farming in southwestern Minnesota's Jackson County for around four decades.

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This is a region dominated by the kind of flat, fertile fields that regularly turn out impressive yields of corn and soybeans, utilizing conventional production methods.

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So the Ackermans would be forgiven for pretty much raising crops the way folks always have in their neighborhood.

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Such production methods rely on plenty of tillage, exposed soil and intensive fertilizer use.

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But the couple has long been focused on leaving the land on the 1200 acres they farm better than they found it.

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So for the past several years, they've been implementing no till practices and integrating cover crops such as cereal rye into their rotation.

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As a result of these soil health practices, they're seeing better water infiltration and increased organic matter levels.

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The farmers have also been able to maintain high yields, despite the fact that they've reduced nitrogen fertilizer applications over the years.

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During a recent field day at the Ackerman farm sponsored by the Soil Health Coalition, Practical Farmers of Iowa and Pheasants Forever,

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Jerry explained how building soil has also paid off financially.

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That's because less tillage and more resilient, self-reliant soil has allowed them to cut their spending on fertilizer, fuel, tile drainage infrastructure and tillage equipment.

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Particularly striking is how, since they've adopted soil health practices, the Ackermans have experienced fewer problems with pest insects damaging their crops.

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This has also resulted in a financial boost, given that they are spending less on pesticides.

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One clue as to why pest insects are less of a problem revealed itself during the field day when Stephanie McLean,

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the soil health specialist for the Minnesota office of the USDA's Natural Resources Conservation Service, showed the results of some insect trapping she had done on the Ackerman land.

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Her sampling revealed several species of beneficial bugs that can help keep the bad bugs in check.

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One corner of the farm that's home to pollinators and other beneficial insects is a three-acre wetland the Ackermans have restored through a watershed program.

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Over the years, that low-lying corner of the farm had periodically been too wet to crop, making it difficult to get consistent production out of it.

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During the field day, great blue herons and leopard frogs, along with bees and other pollinators, were clearly enjoying this patch of wildness.

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Jerry says he and Nancy love seeing the wildlife this corner attracts, but that there are also economic benefits to the habitat as well.

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By wasting less time and resources planting a piece of ground that may or may not produce a profitable yield,

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they can focus on the more productive parts of their farm.

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After the field day, I talked to Jerry about their adoption of no-till and cover cropping,

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and how the presence of more life, both under the ground and in the air above it, indicates that they are on the right track.

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Honestly, when I first started, my dad would not let me do that on his farm.

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Eventually, he let me strip-till because it was still a little tillage, but it was in the strip, and his cover crops, he just could not figure that out.

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But then after he'd seen it, he kind of became a believer, and of course then, I forget what year it was, I got an award from No-Till Farm for nutrient management.

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Of course, he said to me one day, he said, how in the world did you ever have figured out how to try this?

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And I said, well, really it was your dad, your grandpa, why?

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I said, well, he was the first guy to have a John Deere self-propelled combine in Jackson County, first guy to grow soybeans, of course they were used for cattle feed at that time,

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and he grew different things, and he always told me, you've got to try some of these things, and you know, some work really good, some maybe not,

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and you throw the ones that don't work away and keep doing the good ones.

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Curiosity is a lot of it, and I'm still learning myself.

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I mean, I'm not claiming I know everything, and it's kind of like I tell people, when you want to know what not to do, just ask me because I've made enough mistakes.

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One of the learning ones was we were interseeding, and of course we were spraying and killing the covers off, interseeding and whatever,

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and here I got the applicator here, and boom, we're growing like crazy, and we get done, and Nancy said, you dumb turkey, of course it was a little worse than that.

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That field was not sprayed, and it's like, okay, we're spraying Liberty, that just kills living plants, so we called the chemical rep, and yeah, it should be all right on that, so we sprayed it,

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and I think what happened is, of course, the spray got on the seed when the seed germinated and died.

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Although, on the cover crop seed.

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Yes, on the cover crop seed, so it was kind of a costly mistake.

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Another time, Nancy has her farms, of course, and I have mine, well, this one field she had beside me, she planted a 2.4 maturity soybean.

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Well, I didn't want to get beat too bad, so I put a 2.2 beside her, and that was the year our pilot had plane trouble, we had to bring in a different airplane,

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and he said, I got to do it all at once, we got thousands acres waiting, so I checked.

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He was, you were using an airplane to put in the cover crop.

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Yes, well, do a lot of aerial seeding, because we do have some good pilots, and went and checked the beans, and they were kind of, you know,

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well, maybe we see a yellow leaf here, which the rule is, you want to have 20% yellow leaves when you do that,

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because you need to get sunlight to winter rye, or it'll grow about 3-4 inches tall, and it'll die, and we seeded it,

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and flew it on, we thought, wow, it's close enough, it'll be turning yellow, and it'll drop, and we'd go check it,

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and I got about 3, 3.5 inches tall in there, well, here we come with a combine, there's not any cereal rye.

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It did not have enough light, and it all died, and we had the perfect check strip, because we were drilling with the John Deere Niltail Drill,

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and of course, I'd missed a spot, didn't get the drill dropped, and here's 20 foot wide, about 10 feet long, just a beautiful stand of cereal rye.

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So, that was a costly mistake, you know, but you're going to have things like that along the way,

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and the big things dealing with covers is starting to learn which herbicides work better, and so forth along the way.

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You started, you went completely no-till about 3 years ago, and then integrated cover cropping into that?

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Yes, we started experimenting with cover crops back in, I believe it was 2008, it might have been 2007-06.

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By 2010, we were 100% covers on everything, and we have been ever since.

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Any field we have come spring is going to have a cover crop on it.

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I may try some Triticale, because I was just at the soil health school, they had this summer,

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and one of the things that caught my ear was, well, even though you're using cover crops, you need to get some diversity in there.

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So, I may switch to Triticale on some of it, cereal rye on some of it, because I do want something that's going to overwinter,

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and people don't realize, especially with cereal rye, it's a natural herbicide.

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If you have cereal rye growing, and it doesn't have to be a real thick stand, that's the easiest way, is, you know, plant cereal rye and plant soybean.

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And I've had how many people come back and say, I didn't really believe you, but you're right, there's no water hemp coming.

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Successful Farming had an article in there a year ago, I believe it was, with University of Illinois down there, Champaign or Vanna,

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and they're actually recommending letting the soybeans come up and almost get to the second trifolium before terminating,

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because cereal rye has a natural inhibitor for weed suppression, in other words, they will not let weeds germinate, but that lasts about 30 to 35 days.

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And at the field day we had here, one customer had 500 acres of beans last year, he only had 50 acres he had to spray a second time.

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He literally went and terminated the cereal rye, and I don't know what he used for it, I know of course he used Roundup, but he maybe had something else with it.

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But he said, you know, I come back later, the rows are closed, and I don't have any weeds there, that's a lot of money I save.

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And you're planting green, so you put in the cereal rye in the fall, and then, yeah, roughly how tall are you letting it get when you go in and plant green?

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Typically on corn, since we're interseeding, we want to terminate it almost the next day after we plant.

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And that was going so good, and I was about ready to quit, because I thought,

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God, what's happening, we always had beautiful stands, and we're interseeding, it's going great,

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and actually I was doing a presentation to Soil and Water last winter, and I'm looking at the slide, and it was an older slide,

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and here's all this nice dead cereal rye, there's not a weed out there, nice black strips.

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And I'm thinking, I said, yeah, you don't see a weed out there, do you?

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But the light bulb went on.

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Cereal rye has about a 30-day time period from the time you terminate it until it's not allopathic anymore.

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Here what we're doing, we're trying to plant green, we're killing it, and then we're trying to quick seed a cover crop into it,

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we have the allopathic effect now.

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So now we're killing it almost the same day we plant, and then depending if we need another herbicide application to clean things up,

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then we'll come in and interseed our interseeding with that.

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How tall is the rye usually when you're terminating it?

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Well, this year was a challenge. In Jackson County, we were wet, I mean, totally.

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I plant it into corn probably at 8 to 10 inches, which normally I tell people kill it at 8 to 10 inches,

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because that's about the quickest return on any nitrogen that it's scavenged,

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because cereal rye is such a good scavenger, any loose nitrogen.

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And this year was so screwed up, I planted in some maybe 16 inches tall.

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And soybeans, I was planting in a couple fields that were probably 4 to 5 feet tall.

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I wasn't too worried in soybeans. We did get it in, we sprayed it after that.

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In fact, you saw the field tape, you can still see the telltale signs of the winter rye out there yet.

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But you do have to be careful, because it also uses a lot of water.

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Now, this year it didn't bother me. I mean, we were so wet, we couldn't get in there. Let it grow.

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Yeah, it's going to tie up nitrogen in your corn.

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But you can compensate for that by maybe getting a little extra nitrogen early to it, so on and so forth.

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And soybeans, yeah, we just went and sprayed it, and as you can see, it's still standing in a couple places.

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Not very much, but...

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What are you seeing as far as benefits, both, I guess, agronomically and in your soils,

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but also are you seeing some economic benefits? Are you seeing some reduction in certain inputs, that kind of thing?

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Oh, yes. I mean, I actually do a spreadsheet kind of thing if I'm doing talks in the winter,

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you know, saying what I've got into it for, as compared to full tillage.

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And typically you're saving $40 to $50 an acre.

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I mean, that's in fuel, that's in machine time, and I'm using Iowa custom rates,

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because that's what everybody in the Midwest kind of uses.

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But yeah, just one pass with a field cultivator and one pass in the fall chisel plowing,

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you're talking probably $30 an acre right there, let alone the fuel and your labor.

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You know, it just puts money in your pocket, period.

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And the cover crops, that's an expense, though.

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I mean, is that helping you save in the end, or is that just an added expense?

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I look at it this way, it's an investment, it's not an expense, which, you know, corn and seed is an expense, so is that.

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I'm using the money I'm saving on fuel and labor, which two people, just I and Nancy,

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and a little part-time help on 1,200 acres, we'll be able to do that.

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I'm using it as part of my herbicide cost, part of my tillage cost,

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and I still feel I'm, you know, $40 to $50 an acre ahead.

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Yeah, I was wondering, so are you saving on fertilizer costs and herbicide costs by using the cover crops?

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Well, you know, when people are starting out with cover crops, I tell them, do not do that.

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Just put on your normal rates.

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I don't want to be blamed and all of a sudden, why use that cover crop?

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I was getting 240 bushels of corn, and when I use a cover crop, I only got 200.

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Okay, did you cut back the rates there?

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Well, yeah, that's what I'm trying, that's what it's supposed to do.

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Don't do that.

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Start out the way you normally do, get used to them, and then, if you want to try it,

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try an area of it, and maybe not such a big jump.

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Now, I've done studies with Minnesota Department of Agriculture and our watershed and NRCS,

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and actually with our agronomist, which is an independent agronomist.

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They don't sell fertilizer, they don't sell chemical,

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and there was eight farmers that participated in this, that's probably been five, six years ago,

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and we had a toolbar set up so it could change as it went across the field,

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and we replicated that five times on a pretty good, I think it was an 80-acre field,

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and there was eight of us had to have that much, 80 acres or more,

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and what we found is, yes, we could get more yield,

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but the best return on investment was between 140 and 150 pounds, actually 140 to 145.

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So I made it rural. I only use 140 pounds of nitrogen, period.

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I don't give it anymore. I expect to get 200-plus bush of yield.

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Now, granted, it doesn't always happen with the weather.

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I got the farm that we got mine gravel out of.

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That farm's never going to do 225. It'll do 180, which I can live with on it,

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and actually, Nancy, a couple of years ago, I was going, after,

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when first year we switched to 100% no-till corn,

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I was going to do part of our home farm here stripping it.

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She said, why are you doing it?

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And I said, well, you know, we got numerous farmers come around, want to see our crops,

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and I take them around to neighbors and show them what they're doing.

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And I said, here I got side by side. I can have no-till, post strip-till.

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She said, you're going to hire that done.

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You've got how many people you can take around to strip-till.

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And she said, that gravel pit farm made 188 bushel dry last year.

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What are you going to try and prove?

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So I threw up my arms and listened to Nancy again,

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and, you know, we've been staying at 100% no-till corn and no-till soybean.

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You have a kind of a trial here.

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I think it's three acres or something right here that you're doing some difference,

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right here next to the machine shed or a little bit.

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Can you describe that trial a little bit?

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Yeah, that's an independent testing agency,

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and they believe have 17 different ones.

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And so what they're doing is comparing conventional tillage, strip-till,

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and no-till in corn and soybeans with cover crop.

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Now that's only the third year for that test plot,

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but I just got a penetrometer given to me.

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The guy said, I'm going to give this to you,

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but I may want to come back and use it once in a while.

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I said, great with me.

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Why don't you show me how to do it?

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This is only a third year of the test plot.

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And he went out there where the tillage was,

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and he pushed down and he says, there's where your tillage is.

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It went in the red right away.

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And OK, well, let's go.

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We hit the hard pan.

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We hit the hard pan right where the tillage was.

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So we moved over, and we went in the strip-till between the rows.

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He pushed that in almost completely in,

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and it didn't go into the red at all.

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It stayed in the green.

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Moved over to the no-till.

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No hard pan.

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Did the same thing.

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He said, in three years' time, you've created a hard pan just

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by doing that tillage.

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And I said, well, I'm not doing it.

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You know, it's their test.

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But it was eye-opening.

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I didn't believe we could get a hard pan that quick,

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because it's been 25-plus years that it's not been tilled,

193
00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:03,060
other than stripping, I shouldn't say that,

194
00:15:03,060 --> 00:15:05,960
which people don't realize strip-tilling is considered

195
00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:08,260
no-tilling, because you're just stripping it

196
00:15:08,260 --> 00:15:09,560
where you're planting the seed.

197
00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:11,060
I always remember Ray Archuleta.

198
00:15:11,060 --> 00:15:14,160
He had been at a field day we had a number of years ago.

199
00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:17,960
He said, to get people to change completely, no-till does work.

200
00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:22,460
But it works really good when you're using cover crop.

201
00:15:22,460 --> 00:15:25,060
And he said, a good way to get people started

202
00:15:25,060 --> 00:15:29,260
is have them start strip-tilling corn and then no-till beans.

203
00:15:29,260 --> 00:15:30,860
It's the easiest way to start.

204
00:15:30,860 --> 00:15:31,860
I think that's a really good point.

205
00:15:31,860 --> 00:15:35,560
I was just talking to Stephanie McLean, the state soil

206
00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:38,060
specialist for the NRCS, who was here today.

207
00:15:38,060 --> 00:15:42,960
And she was talking about this, how important it is to not.

208
00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:44,860
So no-till has its own benefits.

209
00:15:44,860 --> 00:15:47,960
It protects that soil, provides that armor,

210
00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:52,260
which is a part of the five soil health principles.

211
00:15:52,260 --> 00:15:55,860
But you really do also have to build that soil health.

212
00:15:55,860 --> 00:15:57,760
And that's where the cover crops can really

213
00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:01,260
come in and build that aggregate structure in a way that,

214
00:16:01,260 --> 00:16:04,660
like you said, it becomes an investment over time.

215
00:16:04,660 --> 00:16:07,860
You are building that soil's self-reliance a little bit.

216
00:16:07,860 --> 00:16:08,860
And that's very true.

217
00:16:08,860 --> 00:16:11,960
I mean, we always talk about the gravel pit farm.

218
00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:13,660
Nancy wanted to put it in a CRP.

219
00:16:13,660 --> 00:16:15,660
And my dad owned it at that time.

220
00:16:15,660 --> 00:16:18,960
And he did not like CRP for one reason or another.

221
00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:21,060
So I put it into alfalfa for five years.

222
00:16:21,060 --> 00:16:24,160
After the five years, it's been corn and soybeans ever since.

223
00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:25,760
But we've always used a cover.

224
00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:28,060
We had a groundless that was for the state of Minnesota,

225
00:16:28,060 --> 00:16:29,160
Wisconsin down.

226
00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:31,860
And he wanted me to look at my best farm and my worst farm.

227
00:16:31,860 --> 00:16:34,060
I said, well, the home farm's probably the best farm.

228
00:16:34,060 --> 00:16:35,360
And we went out and looked at it.

229
00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:37,060
And he did it and analyzing it.

230
00:16:37,060 --> 00:16:39,260
I said, well, I'll take you down to the gravel pit farm.

231
00:16:39,260 --> 00:16:40,060
And we went out there.

232
00:16:40,060 --> 00:16:41,060
And of course, we had the spade.

233
00:16:41,060 --> 00:16:42,060
And we were digging.

234
00:16:42,060 --> 00:16:43,860
And he said, you sure you took gravel out of here?

235
00:16:43,860 --> 00:16:45,860
And I said, well, over there about 20 yards.

236
00:16:45,860 --> 00:16:47,060
You can see all them little marbles.

237
00:16:47,060 --> 00:16:48,160
That's where the screener was.

238
00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:49,860
And I'm not picking them little things up.

239
00:16:49,860 --> 00:16:51,460
I just farmed through them.

240
00:16:51,460 --> 00:16:53,260
And he said, you are changing his soil.

241
00:16:53,260 --> 00:16:54,960
Now, the last time we tested this,

242
00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:57,460
I think it's been about 10 or 12 years, maybe a little more,

243
00:16:57,460 --> 00:16:58,560
that we took the gravel out.

244
00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:00,760
And of course, they moved black dirt on.

245
00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:02,860
Some places may be only three inches thick.

246
00:17:02,860 --> 00:17:04,160
Other places, six to eight.

247
00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:05,060
But we tested it.

248
00:17:05,060 --> 00:17:09,660
And we have the organic matter at 4.4 average on that farm.

249
00:17:09,660 --> 00:17:13,660
On our home farm right west here of our building site,

250
00:17:13,660 --> 00:17:16,260
the last time we tested that, I think

251
00:17:16,260 --> 00:17:20,860
we're at 6.7 or 6.8 relative organic matter.

252
00:17:20,860 --> 00:17:24,460
Rachel had told me, well, the prairies here in this area

253
00:17:24,460 --> 00:17:27,460
probably had an organic matter of about 7% when we started.

254
00:17:27,460 --> 00:17:29,260
So I'm trying to get back to that.

255
00:17:29,260 --> 00:17:31,060
Whether I'll see it in my nighttime, I don't know.

256
00:17:31,060 --> 00:17:33,360
That's what I was going to ask you about the soil type

257
00:17:33,360 --> 00:17:33,960
you have here.

258
00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:36,860
It's that just rich.

259
00:17:36,860 --> 00:17:38,660
What kind of soil do you have in this area?

260
00:17:38,660 --> 00:17:41,260
Is this prime crop corn ground here?

261
00:17:41,260 --> 00:17:42,260
Yes, this is.

262
00:17:42,260 --> 00:17:44,960
I mean, this farm here was Nancy's parents' farm.

263
00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,460
Yes, it can grow great corn.

264
00:17:47,460 --> 00:17:49,360
Now, again, I got with Gravel Pit Farm.

265
00:17:49,360 --> 00:17:50,660
That's another story.

266
00:17:50,660 --> 00:17:53,060
So we're spread over about eight miles.

267
00:17:53,060 --> 00:17:55,060
Eight miles one direction, eight miles another.

268
00:17:55,060 --> 00:17:57,060
And we've got some rolling hills.

269
00:17:57,060 --> 00:18:00,160
And that farm's not quite as good a farm.

270
00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:02,860
But likewise, it still grows good crops,

271
00:18:02,860 --> 00:18:03,860
if you treat it right.

272
00:18:03,860 --> 00:18:05,260
And by using the covers, we're not

273
00:18:05,260 --> 00:18:07,160
getting any drainage problem.

274
00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:08,860
Actually, we don't have drainage problem

275
00:18:08,860 --> 00:18:10,260
because it's a big hill.

276
00:18:10,260 --> 00:18:12,060
But we're not seeing a soil wash away.

277
00:18:12,060 --> 00:18:14,260
We're not getting the gullies or anything like that.

278
00:18:14,260 --> 00:18:17,460
And you said you're not invested real heavily in tiling,

279
00:18:17,460 --> 00:18:18,260
it sounds like.

280
00:18:18,260 --> 00:18:19,760
I'm investing more.

281
00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:20,860
Everybody likes to tile.

282
00:18:20,860 --> 00:18:22,860
But it's one thing at a time.

283
00:18:22,860 --> 00:18:24,960
And of course, the samples we had here

284
00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:26,260
was off my dad's farm.

285
00:18:26,260 --> 00:18:27,760
And of course, he's passed away now.

286
00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:31,360
But he had tile, but not pattern tile or anything like that.

287
00:18:31,360 --> 00:18:33,860
And I've added a few in lower spots that need some.

288
00:18:33,860 --> 00:18:35,960
Cover crops help tremendously.

289
00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:37,760
But you still have to have tile.

290
00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:39,860
I remember Brian Bigler and I, we got friends.

291
00:18:39,860 --> 00:18:41,360
And he said, you ever notice, though,

292
00:18:41,360 --> 00:18:43,060
you're not calling a tiling machine as much

293
00:18:43,060 --> 00:18:44,360
after you start using them covers?

294
00:18:44,360 --> 00:18:45,060
It all soaks in.

295
00:18:45,060 --> 00:18:47,560
And I said, yeah, you're right.

296
00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:50,260
Pattern tiling is great if you can afford it.

297
00:18:50,260 --> 00:18:53,260
I would say we're probably position tiling.

298
00:18:53,260 --> 00:18:54,360
We know this area is wet.

299
00:18:54,360 --> 00:18:55,860
So we're going to tile that area.

300
00:18:55,860 --> 00:18:57,360
The other one with the cover crops,

301
00:18:57,360 --> 00:18:58,660
it's doing just fine without it.

302
00:18:58,660 --> 00:19:00,860
Why spend the money for the tile if you don't need it?

303
00:19:00,860 --> 00:19:03,060
I guess just in general, if somebody

304
00:19:03,060 --> 00:19:08,360
was starting to look into no-till and then integrating

305
00:19:08,360 --> 00:19:10,660
cover cropping, what would be your suggestion

306
00:19:10,660 --> 00:19:14,660
for some initial first steps to get into something like that?

307
00:19:14,660 --> 00:19:16,260
Well, a lot of people think you have

308
00:19:16,260 --> 00:19:18,560
to have this John Deere no-till drill,

309
00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:21,660
or you have to have the newest, latest hydraulic down pressure

310
00:19:21,660 --> 00:19:22,360
planter.

311
00:19:22,360 --> 00:19:23,760
Now, I will say yes.

312
00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:25,560
I did own a no-till drill.

313
00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:27,460
It was before I was doing cover crop.

314
00:19:27,460 --> 00:19:30,060
If you're doing the covers, and I say at least two years,

315
00:19:30,060 --> 00:19:33,860
maybe three, you don't have to have a high-priced down pressure

316
00:19:33,860 --> 00:19:34,360
planter.

317
00:19:34,360 --> 00:19:36,060
It may be good, and it may do a good job.

318
00:19:36,060 --> 00:19:37,960
Is there anything kind of looking ahead

319
00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:40,360
that you'd like to experiment with,

320
00:19:40,360 --> 00:19:42,260
or that you're looking into, or are you

321
00:19:42,260 --> 00:19:43,960
pretty happy with the system you have set up

322
00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:45,560
for the cropping right now?

323
00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:47,460
You always got to try new things along the way.

324
00:19:47,460 --> 00:19:49,460
I've looked into camelina.

325
00:19:49,460 --> 00:19:51,560
It's going to be a coming crop, I think.

326
00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:52,960
It's still in development stage.

327
00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:55,960
Like I said, I did invest in an oatmeal plant that's going up

328
00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:57,160
at Albert Lee, Minnesota.

329
00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:00,860
That is kind of set up like a corn or soybean plant,

330
00:20:00,860 --> 00:20:02,260
where you own shares, of course.

331
00:20:02,260 --> 00:20:03,560
And you get a premium that way.

332
00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:04,760
They are setting it up.

333
00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:06,560
You cannot use any roundup.

334
00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:08,960
You do have to use a cover crop afterwards,

335
00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:10,660
and it's going to be identity preserved.

336
00:20:10,660 --> 00:20:13,160
So that gives an advantage in the marketplace,

337
00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:15,260
and it just helps a little bit.

338
00:20:15,260 --> 00:20:17,860
And so I may push the oat harvest a little more.

339
00:20:17,860 --> 00:20:18,460
I like it.

340
00:20:18,460 --> 00:20:19,460
It's a third crop.

341
00:20:19,460 --> 00:20:21,560
And basically, to tell you the truth,

342
00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:23,160
we do need a third crop around here.

343
00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:26,160
I was doing it with alfalfa, but that takes a big investment.

344
00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:28,460
I mean, I and Nancy, most holidays,

345
00:20:28,460 --> 00:20:30,360
we miss because we're in an alfalfa field.

346
00:20:30,360 --> 00:20:31,860
Because when it's ready, you've got to go.

347
00:20:31,860 --> 00:20:33,460
Now granted, it was nothing for us

348
00:20:33,460 --> 00:20:36,460
to cut 100 and 120 acres a day with the equipment we had.

349
00:20:36,460 --> 00:20:39,860
We could bale 100 to 120 acres a day, have it in the shed.

350
00:20:39,860 --> 00:20:42,160
But you still got to be there when it's time to go.

351
00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:43,460
Yeah, I'm going to keep looking at things.

352
00:20:43,460 --> 00:20:47,060
I tried a little camelina in my mixes last year just to try it.

353
00:20:47,060 --> 00:20:48,960
I just wanted to ask you quickly about this.

354
00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:52,160
The other part of this field day was looking at this wildlife

355
00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:53,860
habitat that you've established.

356
00:20:53,860 --> 00:20:56,060
I think it's around 3 and 1 half acres, something like that.

357
00:20:56,060 --> 00:20:56,660
3.4.

358
00:20:56,660 --> 00:20:57,360
3.4.

359
00:20:57,360 --> 00:20:59,460
So I think it's really interesting some of the things

360
00:20:59,460 --> 00:21:01,060
you talked about why you did that.

361
00:21:01,060 --> 00:21:03,360
It were near Heron Lake.

362
00:21:03,360 --> 00:21:06,860
And this was traditionally a lot of wetlands in this area.

363
00:21:06,860 --> 00:21:09,260
And it sounds like that was a corner of the farm that

364
00:21:09,260 --> 00:21:13,460
was constantly wet and unfarmable.

365
00:21:13,460 --> 00:21:15,460
And so this offered you an opportunity.

366
00:21:15,460 --> 00:21:18,660
And yeah, can you talk a little bit about what, yeah,

367
00:21:18,660 --> 00:21:21,060
some of the thinking that went into putting that in

368
00:21:21,060 --> 00:21:22,260
and kind of how that's set up?

369
00:21:22,260 --> 00:21:25,460
You're getting a payment, I think, through Pheasants Forever.

370
00:21:25,460 --> 00:21:27,460
You had to use some different programs, I think, to set that up.

371
00:21:27,460 --> 00:21:29,160
Yeah, we were using different programs on that.

372
00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:31,860
Actually, it was kind of a combination of our watershed

373
00:21:31,860 --> 00:21:33,860
and that.

374
00:21:33,860 --> 00:21:36,360
And to be honest with you, yeah, it's low in that area.

375
00:21:36,360 --> 00:21:37,660
It could drown out in the center.

376
00:21:37,660 --> 00:21:39,660
Well, you got an acre and a half drowned out

377
00:21:39,660 --> 00:21:41,260
in a 3 and 1 half acre field.

378
00:21:41,260 --> 00:21:42,260
Equipment's gotten bigger.

379
00:21:42,260 --> 00:21:45,660
When that was put in, it was all four row equipment.

380
00:21:45,660 --> 00:21:47,760
Six row was starting to come in.

381
00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:50,260
And now, you know, you're around 16 row planters,

382
00:21:50,260 --> 00:21:52,460
40 foot bean heads, eight row corn heads.

383
00:21:52,460 --> 00:21:55,060
You know, you just can't get a semi in there.

384
00:21:55,060 --> 00:21:57,760
It was just to the point when it was alfalfa, it was all right.

385
00:21:57,760 --> 00:21:59,360
You know, you can get around that.

386
00:21:59,360 --> 00:22:00,560
It was still kind of a pain.

387
00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:03,560
So when they were looking for places for water to back up,

388
00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:05,760
Nancy said, hey, we could offer this.

389
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:07,160
You know, and they were tickled about it.

390
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:09,160
I'd like to make it a little bigger pond yet.

391
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:10,060
We'll see.

392
00:22:10,060 --> 00:22:12,360
Like it was to the point, it made actually,

393
00:22:12,360 --> 00:22:14,660
it made our other acres more profitable

394
00:22:14,660 --> 00:22:18,060
because you're not losing ground out here once every three years

395
00:22:18,060 --> 00:22:19,660
or vice versa.

396
00:22:19,660 --> 00:22:21,960
It saves probably on Nancy's nerves

397
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:24,660
because she runs her, she used to run her big square baler.

398
00:22:24,660 --> 00:22:26,560
Now she runs her combine.

399
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:29,360
And she's a stickler number, stickler.

400
00:22:29,360 --> 00:22:31,560
She gets that combine calibrated.

401
00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:34,660
I mean, she's within 2% every year on our total bushels.

402
00:22:34,660 --> 00:22:37,060
So that's a good point that some people say, well,

403
00:22:37,060 --> 00:22:38,560
you're taking that out of production,

404
00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:41,160
but it's actually saving you money on your other acres.

405
00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:44,860
Well, and that's why you use programs like CRP

406
00:22:44,860 --> 00:22:48,460
or through Pheasants Forever or Ducks Unlimited like that

407
00:22:48,460 --> 00:22:51,360
because yes, you're taking it out of production,

408
00:22:51,360 --> 00:22:53,560
but it's actually costing you a little bit anyway.

409
00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:55,860
You're spending your money on herbicide seed and everything

410
00:22:55,860 --> 00:22:58,860
and you may not be getting the return on your investment.

411
00:22:58,860 --> 00:23:01,060
By doing that, yes, you maybe take a little less money

412
00:23:01,060 --> 00:23:03,060
in that area, but all of a sudden,

413
00:23:03,060 --> 00:23:05,560
the rest of your acres start going up in the profit margin.

414
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:07,260
You said you'd like to even, we went over there,

415
00:23:07,260 --> 00:23:09,860
it looks really nice, but you said you'd like to even expand

416
00:23:09,860 --> 00:23:10,660
that a little bit more?

417
00:23:10,660 --> 00:23:12,260
I'd like to see it hold water more.

418
00:23:12,260 --> 00:23:15,060
It's a pretty shallow pond and it has water spring

419
00:23:15,060 --> 00:23:16,660
and when it rains, we got water in there,

420
00:23:16,660 --> 00:23:18,460
but if it gets hot and dry, it dries out.

421
00:23:18,460 --> 00:23:20,360
And I'd like to see some permanent water

422
00:23:20,360 --> 00:23:22,160
and I think I told everybody there,

423
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:24,760
just north of me a quarter mile or a half mile,

424
00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:26,460
they did about a 16 acre one

425
00:23:26,460 --> 00:23:29,060
and I really liked the way they did that.

426
00:23:29,060 --> 00:23:30,060
All kinds of wildlife.

427
00:23:30,060 --> 00:23:32,260
And the first year before the rushes come in here,

428
00:23:32,260 --> 00:23:33,660
we'd have geese stopping by,

429
00:23:33,660 --> 00:23:36,060
we'd have ducks down there, everything.

430
00:23:36,060 --> 00:23:38,360
Now you don't see it because it's full of rushes,

431
00:23:38,360 --> 00:23:41,260
but it is good because Pheasants love the rushes

432
00:23:41,260 --> 00:23:42,660
for winter time.

433
00:23:42,660 --> 00:23:46,060
It gives them cover and a lot of guys down here

434
00:23:46,060 --> 00:23:47,260
don't leave stocks.

435
00:23:47,260 --> 00:23:49,960
I'm starting to see more and more corn stocks

436
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:50,960
not tilled in the fall

437
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,560
and I'm seeing more guys going to vertical tillage now.

438
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:55,160
Yes, it's still tillage,

439
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:57,960
but there's still even more residue and that's good

440
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,660
because I was out this spring and we had some,

441
00:24:00,660 --> 00:24:03,060
you know, heck of a winds and I'm looking,

442
00:24:03,060 --> 00:24:05,660
you know, we just had rain and I'm looking at dust storm

443
00:24:05,660 --> 00:24:06,860
and it's like, really?

444
00:24:06,860 --> 00:24:07,860
This is ridiculous.

445
00:24:07,860 --> 00:24:09,460
So when we went over there to look at it,

446
00:24:09,460 --> 00:24:11,260
I saw a great blue heron fly up.

447
00:24:11,260 --> 00:24:15,960
I saw a leopard frog going straight into that habitat.

448
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:17,660
Saw some swallows hanging around,

449
00:24:17,660 --> 00:24:18,860
but it sounds like, you know,

450
00:24:18,860 --> 00:24:21,160
here we are in getting to be late August

451
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:23,160
and it's still got stuff flowering in there.

452
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,060
It looked really good.

453
00:24:25,060 --> 00:24:28,860
Looking at that habitat and looking at all the life there

454
00:24:28,860 --> 00:24:30,760
and the insects and the birds and that,

455
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:32,260
I think a good way to end the field day

456
00:24:32,260 --> 00:24:35,260
was Stephanie McLean from the NRCS.

457
00:24:35,260 --> 00:24:36,760
She talked about some,

458
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:39,460
she's been doing some trapping of insects

459
00:24:39,460 --> 00:24:41,660
comparing your, what she calls your soil health field,

460
00:24:41,660 --> 00:24:43,560
which is field that you're doing no-till

461
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:46,360
and cover cropping on compared to conventional,

462
00:24:46,360 --> 00:24:49,660
kind of looking at the number of the beneficial insects.

463
00:24:49,660 --> 00:24:52,160
Yeah, and I think it was a really good reminder

464
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,160
of not all insects are bad for one thing,

465
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:55,660
in fact, the majority of them are not.

466
00:24:55,660 --> 00:24:58,660
But I found that really interesting in that

467
00:24:58,660 --> 00:25:00,060
people get really fixated on,

468
00:25:00,060 --> 00:25:02,560
well, you got to set aside a little bit of habitat

469
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:05,660
to have any kind of so-called wildlife on the farm,

470
00:25:05,660 --> 00:25:08,460
whether it be insects or birds or mammals or whatever.

471
00:25:08,460 --> 00:25:10,460
But I think that was a good,

472
00:25:10,460 --> 00:25:13,060
that presentation on some of the life

473
00:25:13,060 --> 00:25:18,060
that's present in your working lands, in your cropping areas.

474
00:25:18,060 --> 00:25:20,860
That also is part of that bigger picture

475
00:25:20,860 --> 00:25:23,660
of having kind of a natural ecosystem out there.

476
00:25:23,660 --> 00:25:25,060
I mean, is that something you think about?

477
00:25:25,060 --> 00:25:26,360
I think, and they kind of,

478
00:25:26,360 --> 00:25:28,060
because there isn't, because those insects

479
00:25:28,060 --> 00:25:30,260
and those bugs and those, the birds,

480
00:25:30,260 --> 00:25:31,760
they don't respect boundaries, you know.

481
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:35,360
So if they can have kind of a bigger system to rely on,

482
00:25:35,360 --> 00:25:36,760
I think it sounds like it could make

483
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:38,360
that whole thing kind of healthier.

484
00:25:38,360 --> 00:25:39,360
Well, and it does,

485
00:25:39,360 --> 00:25:41,560
and I know my agronomist has said the same thing.

486
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:43,360
He said, I don't know if it's cover crops

487
00:25:43,360 --> 00:25:44,860
or what you're doing, but he said,

488
00:25:44,860 --> 00:25:46,860
your corn, we scout that for diseases.

489
00:25:46,860 --> 00:25:48,360
We may see a little here and there,

490
00:25:48,360 --> 00:25:50,860
but it's not anything that reaches threshold

491
00:25:50,860 --> 00:25:52,060
that you need to spray for.

492
00:25:52,060 --> 00:25:53,060
Same way with bugs.

493
00:25:53,060 --> 00:25:54,960
He said, you know, I think maybe we sprayed

494
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:57,060
two or three of your fields in the last five years

495
00:25:57,060 --> 00:25:58,360
out of all your soybean fields.

496
00:25:58,360 --> 00:26:00,060
We always scout, there's a few there,

497
00:26:00,060 --> 00:26:02,360
whether it's beneficial insects that's controlling them,

498
00:26:02,360 --> 00:26:05,160
whether it's your soil practices you're doing, I don't know.

499
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:06,360
But he said, something's working.

500
00:26:06,360 --> 00:26:08,860
You know, I'm just kind of going with the flow here.

501
00:26:08,860 --> 00:26:10,460
Yeah, I want to do a good job,

502
00:26:10,460 --> 00:26:12,560
but people don't realize you start spraying

503
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:14,160
insecticides and fungicides,

504
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:16,260
it also affects what's happening in your soil.

505
00:26:16,260 --> 00:26:18,460
You know, whether they believe it or not, it does.

506
00:26:18,460 --> 00:26:20,260
I guess I'm just trying a good job.

507
00:26:20,260 --> 00:26:22,760
And I always was taught you try and leave the ground

508
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:24,460
in better shape than when you took it over.

509
00:26:24,460 --> 00:26:25,660
And I think we're doing that.

510
00:26:25,660 --> 00:26:26,860
We're seeing our, you know,

511
00:26:26,860 --> 00:26:29,260
our organic manner numbers are going up

512
00:26:29,260 --> 00:26:30,860
and yields aren't hurt at all.

513
00:26:30,860 --> 00:26:33,660
And actually saving us a lot of work in some ways.

514
00:26:33,660 --> 00:26:34,660
Yeah.

515
00:26:34,660 --> 00:26:47,360
For Land Stewardship Project resources on building soil health

516
00:26:47,360 --> 00:26:50,660
profitably utilizing practices like no-till and cover cropping,

517
00:26:50,660 --> 00:26:54,960
see the podcast page for Ear to the Ground Episode 351

518
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,460
at LandStewardshipProject.org.

519
00:26:57,460 --> 00:27:00,160
If you have comments or suggestions about this podcast,

520
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,060
contact Brian DeVore at bdevor.org

521
00:27:02,060 --> 00:27:09,060
at LandStewardshipProject.org or you can call 612-816-9342.

522
00:27:09,060 --> 00:27:11,160
By the way, it helps us greatly.

523
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:15,260
If you can give Ear to the Ground a rating on whatever podcast platform you utilize.

524
00:27:15,260 --> 00:27:19,060
And word of mouth is the best way to spread the news about our podcast.

525
00:27:19,060 --> 00:27:23,960
If you like what you hear, tell at least one person about LSP's Ear to the Ground.

526
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:25,460
Thanks to Laura Borgendahl,

527
00:27:25,460 --> 00:27:28,460
Western Minnesota musician, for Ear to the Ground's theme music.

528
00:27:28,460 --> 00:27:32,260
And a special thank you to all of Land Stewardship Project's members

529
00:27:32,260 --> 00:27:35,260
who make initiatives such as this podcast possible.

530
00:27:35,260 --> 00:27:38,760
If you're not a member, visit LandStewardshipProject.org

531
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,760
to learn how you can support LSP.

532
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:43,260
Thanks for listening.

533
00:27:43,260 --> 00:28:10,260
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