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welcome to money is freedom

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a podcast

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exploring how finance and freedom connect in our lives

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created from thoughtful research

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and narrated by Notebook LM AI

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this series brings you clear

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meaningful insights into finance and beyond

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welcome to episode 19 Today

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we're diving into the intersection of code

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and innovation in the world of crypto

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the 2,024 developer Report from The Electric Capital

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sheds light on the latest trends

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challenges and breakthroughs

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shaping the future of blockchain development

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from new tools and frameworks

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to the evolving role of developers in the crypto

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ecosystem we're unpacking it all

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whether you're a seasoned coder

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or just curious

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about how innovation happens in this space

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this episode has something for you

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let's get started

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welcome back everybody to another deep dive

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um today we're gonna be talking about crypto developers

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oh yeah and we got this really awesome report

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by Electric Capital yeah

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which is like

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a census for all the amazing minds that are like

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building the future of this whole technology

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it's really really cool

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yeah super interesting stuff yes

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we're gonna be looking at like

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you know where all these developers are

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what they're working on

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how this whole thing is kind of like

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you know

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showing us that crypto is really global for sure

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and it's diversifying so quickly right yeah

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like it's changing all the time

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this report really helps us cut through all that noise

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yeah

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get past the hype and actually see what's happening

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based on

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you know real data right

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like where is the innovation actually taking place

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exactly so

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they kick off this report by highlighting this

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really interesting point that developers are basically

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like the secret ingredient to creating value in crypto

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oh for sure

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it makes total sense right

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like they're the ones building the app

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attracting all the users

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and then that in turn brings in even more developers

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yeah it's like the cycle of innovation

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it's a beautiful cycle yeah

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and what's really cool is

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since crypto relies so much on open source development

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we get this incredible transparency

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into that whole process yeah

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so we can actually see

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how this global talent pool is growing

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and where it's all moving

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so what are they seeing like what's the data showing us

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well first off

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the growth has just been mind blowing

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oh yeah

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I mean ever since Ethereum launch back in 2015

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the number of crypto developers has been increasing

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by an average of 39%

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every single year that's insane

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it is a lot it's a huge number

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yeah but

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you know even though the total number dipped

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just a tiny bit in 2024

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the report shows that the experienced developers

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the ones who have been around for more than two years

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they are more active than ever

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wow so they're like really committed to this

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yeah exactly

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they're

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not just dipping their toes in the water anymore

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they're like diving in headfirst

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that's awesome

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it really suggests that while that initial wave of

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you know hype might be settling a bit

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that core group of developers who are like

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really committed to building in the space

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are doubling down yeah

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they are the ones

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really pushing the boundaries of innovation

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so it's not just about like more developers though

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right it's also about like where they're located

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totally yeah

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the report shows that Asia

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is now the top continent for developer share real

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which is pretty crazy because North America

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actually dropped down to third place

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wow we always hear about like

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you know the growing crypto scene in Asia

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but this really confirms it

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yeah the data is right there

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it's pretty amazing to see how crypto is becoming this

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truly global phenomenon yeah

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and remember India like

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they welcomed

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the biggest number of new developers in 2024

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oh yeah

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huge growth there progressive

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and the report doesn't just look at

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the number of developers though

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it also goes deep into their activity

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across different blockchains

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so like what are they doing on these different chains

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well

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one of the most striking things they found was that

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one out of every three developers

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is now working on multiple chains

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wow

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which is a huge jump from less than 10% back in 2015

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so it seems like everybody's kind of

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branching out and exploring different ecosystems

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exactly and I think that's a really positive sign

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yeah because it not only reduces risk

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for individual developers right

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but it also fosters innovation right

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yeah because they can use

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the strengths of different blockchains

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for specific projects it leads to this

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much richer and more dynamic crypto landscape overall

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I love that so I like Ethereum

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of course is still the leader

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when you look at overall developer activity

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yes still the king

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yeah but it was really interesting to see that

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almost half of Bitcoin's developers

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are focused on scaling solutions right

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make sense

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with all the buzz about making Bitcoin more efficient

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and scalable right

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totally it's like they're trying to solve those like

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transaction

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speed and cost problems that Bitcoin's facing

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exactly as adoption grows

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that becomes more and more important

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yeah and then you've got these newcomers like Solana

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oh yeah

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which have really grabbed a lot of developers attention

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they've been killing it yeah

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it took the top spot for new developers this year

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wow with a massive 83% year over year increase

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I mean

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their focus on high transaction speeds and low fees

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has definitely made them attractive

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yeah especially for developers

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working on projects that need those

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fast and cost effective transactions

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all for sure and then we can't forget about base right

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oh right

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this is responsible for like a crazy 42%

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a new code in the whole Ethereum ecosystem

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it's wild how quickly they've gained traction

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I know it's amazing right

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I think it's that connection to Ethereum

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that's really working for them

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yeah it lets developers use the security

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and infrastructure of Ethereum

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but with faster and cheaper transactions

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it's like the best of both worlds right

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it's like a win win situation

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so it's not just about which blockchain is like better

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right it's more about developers choosing

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the best platform for what they're trying to build

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totally and we're seeing these chains become hubs

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for very specific use cases

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okay I like that

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so before we dive into like

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the NFTs and the DXs and all that yeah

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what about these activity patterns that

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the report talks about oh yeah

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that's fascinating stuff yeah

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so like for example stablecoin transactions

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uh huh they're pretty consistent

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across all the different time zones

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interesting which suggests that they're being used

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for a bunch of different purposes right

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yeah but then you look at NFTs

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yeah trading peaks during American work hours

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okay while minting peaks during Asian work hours

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wow so

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different regions are really engaging with crypto in

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very different ways totally

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and those patterns can tell us a lot about

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how different crypto applications are being adopted

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globally I like that

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so it seems like we've got a lot to unpack

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with the NFTs and DXs for sure

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those are two areas that have seen like

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explosive growth

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the reports got some really cool insights into how

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different chains are carving out their own niches

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so let's start with NFTs okay

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the report says that both base and Salona

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are leading the way with what they call low fee

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NFTs base seems to be dominating NFT minting volume

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while Salona is capturing most of those NFT

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transactions interesting

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yeah so

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they're each playing different roles in the NFT world

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right and it's not just about like the technical stuff

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it's also about the

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communities that are gravitating towards those chains

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right absolutely

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like

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Salona has attracted this really vibrant community

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of NFT enthusiasts and traitors

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oh yeah

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which really reinforces its position as like

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the go to place for NFT transactions

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like a self fulfilling prophecy almost right

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yeah and that community aspect is often overlooked

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yeah

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but it's so crucial to the success of any blockchain

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ecosystem for sure

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so it's not just NFTs either

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the report also highlighted Salona's dominance in

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the decentralized exchange space

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or what we call DXS right

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it's getting most of those DX transactions

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and it's got the highest number of unique

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trading wallets

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they've really carved out a noche for themselves

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in that world I mean

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their high transaction speeds

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and low fees are a huge draw

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for traders

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especially those who wanna execute trades quickly

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inefficiently yeah

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and the fact that they have the most

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unique trading wallets yeah

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really suggest that they're

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attracting a wide range of users

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yeah from individuals to institutions

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that's awesome but base is coming up though right

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they are they're a strong contender

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yeah they're ranked second for unique trading ollets

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which is pretty impressive

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considering they're relatively new to the DTX world

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yeah I think it's that Ethereum connection again

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right toble giving them that security and familiarity

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exactly while also offering users that faster

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cheaper trading experience

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it's gonna be interesting to see how that

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competition plays out oh yeah

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it'll be fun to watch okay

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so the report also mentioned

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these liquid restaking tokens

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or LRTs as a hot new sector

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oh yeah

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that's getting a lot of attention

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yeah but I gotta be honest

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the whole restaking thing

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kind of makes my head spin a little bit

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I know it could be a little mindbending

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it is but essentially

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what it does is

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it lets you earn rewards from staking your crypto

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but you still keep your liquidity okay

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so you can still trade or use your tokens freely

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so it's like having your cake and eating it too

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exactly you get the rewards

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without having to lock up your tokens

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it's awesome yeah

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and that flexibility has attracted a ton of interest

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it sounds pretty great yeah

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the report shows that this sector has

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added over $30 billion in total value

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locked to Ethereum wow

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that's a lot of money it is

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it's a huge number so Igan layers

281
00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:28,666
the company that's like

282
00:09:28,666 --> 00:09:31,600
pioneering this whole restaking thing right yeah

283
00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:33,166
they're considered the pioneers

284
00:09:33,166 --> 00:09:35,133
okay and the report shows that they've seen

285
00:09:35,133 --> 00:09:39,466
130% increase in their full time developer team

286
00:09:39,533 --> 00:09:40,200
wow so

287
00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:41,766
that shows you how much

288
00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:44,533
interest in investment is flowing into this sector

289
00:09:44,533 --> 00:09:46,300
totally it's definitely a trend

290
00:09:46,300 --> 00:09:49,533
to watch it's amazing how crypto just keeps evolving

291
00:09:49,533 --> 00:09:50,200
yeah

292
00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:52,600
with all these new innovations popping up all the time

293
00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:53,933
it's hard to keep up sometimes

294
00:09:53,933 --> 00:09:55,766
it really is but it's also exciting right

295
00:09:55,766 --> 00:09:57,000
oh yeah definitely

296
00:09:57,166 --> 00:09:59,100
but amidst all this new stuff

297
00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:00,733
it's important to remember those like

298
00:10:00,733 --> 00:10:02,166
foundational technologies

299
00:10:02,166 --> 00:10:03,566
that got us here in the first place

300
00:10:03,566 --> 00:10:06,000
absolutely the OGs like Bitcoin

301
00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:07,500
you know the report showed that

302
00:10:07,500 --> 00:10:09,366
a big chunk of Bitcoin developers

303
00:10:09,366 --> 00:10:11,600
are still focused on those scaling solutions

304
00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:11,866
yeah

305
00:10:11,866 --> 00:10:14,200
it's easy to forget about Bitcoin with all these shiny

306
00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:16,300
new blockchains but it's still

307
00:10:16,300 --> 00:10:19,100
the largest and most established cryptocurrency

308
00:10:19,100 --> 00:10:20,000
out there yeah

309
00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:21,633
and as more people use it

310
00:10:21,933 --> 00:10:23,866
scalability becomes even more important

311
00:10:23,866 --> 00:10:25,233
exactly because

312
00:10:25,500 --> 00:10:26,933
the current Bitcoin network

313
00:10:26,933 --> 00:10:28,800
does have those limitations

314
00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:31,566
with transaction speed and cost right

315
00:10:31,566 --> 00:10:34,566
so it's crucial to find ways to improve its efficiency

316
00:10:34,566 --> 00:10:35,900
and its capacity yeah

317
00:10:35,900 --> 00:10:39,433
to handle a much larger volume of transactions

318
00:10:39,500 --> 00:10:42,066
so are these developers mostly focusing on those

319
00:10:42,066 --> 00:10:43,600
layer 2 solutions for Bitcoin

320
00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:44,866
yeah they are okay

321
00:10:44,866 --> 00:10:46,600
cause I've been hearing a lot of buzz about those

322
00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:48,766
they're a key area focus for sure

323
00:10:48,766 --> 00:10:50,466
so what are they exactly basically

324
00:10:50,466 --> 00:10:53,100
they create this separate layer on top of the main

325
00:10:53,100 --> 00:10:54,700
Bitcoin blockchain okay

326
00:10:54,700 --> 00:10:56,533
to handle transactions more efficiently

327
00:10:56,533 --> 00:10:58,933
got it so you get faster

328
00:10:58,933 --> 00:11:00,133
cheaper transactions

329
00:11:00,133 --> 00:11:02,700
without messing with the security of the underlying

330
00:11:02,700 --> 00:11:03,766
Bitcoin network wow

331
00:11:03,766 --> 00:11:04,966
that's pretty clever it is

332
00:11:04,966 --> 00:11:07,466
it's like building an express lane on a highway

333
00:11:07,466 --> 00:11:08,800
oh I like that analogy

334
00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:11,433
yeah just to ease that traffic congestion

335
00:11:11,466 --> 00:11:12,966
so even with all these new

336
00:11:12,966 --> 00:11:14,866
blockchains and apps coming out

337
00:11:14,866 --> 00:11:17,166
there's still a ton of innovation happening

338
00:11:17,166 --> 00:11:18,566
within the Bitcoin ecosystem

339
00:11:18,566 --> 00:11:19,166
totally

340
00:11:19,166 --> 00:11:22,433
it's a good reminder that crypto isn't a zero sum game

341
00:11:23,166 --> 00:11:24,600
yeah there's room for everyone

342
00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:25,333
exactly

343
00:11:25,333 --> 00:11:27,900
multiple blockchains and technologies can coexist

344
00:11:27,900 --> 00:11:29,200
and thrive together

345
00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:31,500
and speaking of coexisting and thriving

346
00:11:31,733 --> 00:11:33,000
the report also talked about

347
00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:35,066
the growing popularity of stablecoins

348
00:11:35,066 --> 00:11:35,800
oh yeah

349
00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:36,700
they've become like

350
00:11:36,700 --> 00:11:38,600
a crucial part of the whole crypto world

351
00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:40,366
yeah they offer a much more stable

352
00:11:40,366 --> 00:11:41,000
and predictable

353
00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:43,166
way to transact with digital currencies

354
00:11:43,166 --> 00:11:44,533
right and they're a game changer

355
00:11:44,533 --> 00:11:46,066
because they provide that bridge

356
00:11:46,066 --> 00:11:47,766
between traditional finance

357
00:11:47,766 --> 00:11:48,933
and crypto yeah

358
00:11:48,933 --> 00:11:51,133
making it easier for people to use crypto

359
00:11:51,133 --> 00:11:52,900
for everyday things totally

360
00:11:52,900 --> 00:11:54,200
I mean the report said there's like

361
00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:58,366
$196 billion in stable coins circulating right now

362
00:11:58,700 --> 00:12:01,866
with a daily transaction volume of $81 billion

363
00:12:01,866 --> 00:12:03,366
yeah those are some crazy numbers

364
00:12:03,366 --> 00:12:04,100
a huge

365
00:12:04,100 --> 00:12:06,600
it just shows how much stable coins are being embraced

366
00:12:06,766 --> 00:12:08,900
by both individuals and businesses

367
00:12:08,900 --> 00:12:09,333
totally

368
00:12:09,333 --> 00:12:11,266
and they're not just for simple transactions either

369
00:12:11,266 --> 00:12:13,200
right they're also playing a big role

370
00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:15,466
in decentralized finance oh yeah

371
00:12:15,466 --> 00:12:16,533
defi yeah

372
00:12:16,533 --> 00:12:19,266
enabling all these financial services like lending

373
00:12:19,266 --> 00:12:19,733
borrowing

374
00:12:19,733 --> 00:12:23,700
and trading without needing those traditional middlemen

375
00:12:23,700 --> 00:12:24,933
that's the beauty of it

376
00:12:24,933 --> 00:12:28,000
and the report also mention this success of Bitcoin

377
00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:29,733
etfs oh yeah

378
00:12:29,733 --> 00:12:31,733
which is another sign that traditional finances

379
00:12:31,733 --> 00:12:33,666
starting to really pay attention to crypto

380
00:12:33,666 --> 00:12:36,233
absolutely because Bitcoin etfs let

381
00:12:36,266 --> 00:12:38,166
investors get exposure to Bitcoin

382
00:12:38,166 --> 00:12:39,166
through those traditional

383
00:12:39,166 --> 00:12:40,200
financial markets

384
00:12:40,333 --> 00:12:42,900
and the fact that some of these ETF launches

385
00:12:42,900 --> 00:12:44,900
are among the most successful in history

386
00:12:45,366 --> 00:12:47,200
really shows that cryptocurrencies are

387
00:12:47,333 --> 00:12:48,533
becoming more accepted yeah

388
00:12:48,533 --> 00:12:50,933
they're starting to be integrated into mainstream

389
00:12:50,933 --> 00:12:52,400
investment portfolios

390
00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:54,866
it's a clear sign that crypto isn't on the fringes

391
00:12:54,866 --> 00:12:56,966
anymore it's becoming part of the establishment

392
00:12:56,966 --> 00:12:57,966
yeah it's becoming more

393
00:12:57,966 --> 00:13:00,466
more integrated into the global financial system

394
00:13:00,466 --> 00:13:02,366
and as that integration continues

395
00:13:02,366 --> 00:13:04,000
we can expect to see even more

396
00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:06,100
institutional investment in crypto

397
00:13:06,100 --> 00:13:06,600
yeah

398
00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:09,066
could lead to further growth and maturity of the market

399
00:13:09,066 --> 00:13:10,600
exactly okay

400
00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:14,033
so all this paints a pretty optimistic picture

401
00:13:14,133 --> 00:13:16,333
of the future of crypto it does

402
00:13:16,333 --> 00:13:17,800
but we gotta acknowledge that

403
00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:19,500
the market is still relatively young

404
00:13:19,500 --> 00:13:20,200
oh yeah

405
00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:22,033
and it can be volatile for sure

406
00:13:22,266 --> 00:13:24,666
the report even mentioned that little dip in

407
00:13:24,666 --> 00:13:27,266
the total number of developers in 2024

408
00:13:27,300 --> 00:13:29,000
which could worry some people

409
00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:30,300
it's a valid point

410
00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:33,000
but it's important to look at the bigger picture right

411
00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:35,800
okay while the total number dipped slightly

412
00:13:35,933 --> 00:13:37,900
the number of experience developers

413
00:13:37,900 --> 00:13:40,233
those with more than two years of experience

414
00:13:40,466 --> 00:13:42,166
is actually at an all time high

415
00:13:42,166 --> 00:13:42,900
oh wow

416
00:13:42,900 --> 00:13:45,666
so it's not necessarily a sign of waning interest

417
00:13:45,666 --> 00:13:46,466
it's more like

418
00:13:46,466 --> 00:13:49,466
a natural evolution of that developer landscape right

419
00:13:49,466 --> 00:13:50,966
so is the market matures

420
00:13:51,366 --> 00:13:53,366
we can expect to see a more stable

421
00:13:53,366 --> 00:13:55,166
and experienced developer base

422
00:13:55,166 --> 00:13:57,566
exactly which is ultimately a good thing

423
00:13:57,566 --> 00:14:00,600
definitely it's all about quality over quantity right

424
00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:01,466
yeah but developers

425
00:14:01,466 --> 00:14:02,200
who are truly

426
00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:04,566
dedicated to building the future of crypto

427
00:14:04,866 --> 00:14:07,333
are the ones who are gonna drive that innovation

428
00:14:07,333 --> 00:14:09,100
and create long term value

429
00:14:09,266 --> 00:14:10,700
and like we've been talking about

430
00:14:10,700 --> 00:14:12,166
that focus of innovation

431
00:14:12,166 --> 00:14:14,366
is shifting towards those more practical

432
00:14:14,366 --> 00:14:16,633
and impactful use cases absolutely

433
00:14:16,666 --> 00:14:19,300
which is essential for driving mainstream adoption

434
00:14:19,300 --> 00:14:22,500
totally like the report emphasize

435
00:14:22,500 --> 00:14:24,600
the growing popularity of stablecoins

436
00:14:24,966 --> 00:14:27,400
which are now being used for everyday transactions

437
00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:28,300
remittances

438
00:14:28,366 --> 00:14:30,966
even as a hedge against inflation in some countries

439
00:14:30,966 --> 00:14:32,066
exactly there are

440
00:14:32,066 --> 00:14:34,600
perfect example of how crypto is moving beyond

441
00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:36,366
just speculation and hype

442
00:14:36,500 --> 00:14:39,166
yeah it's becoming a tool for financial empowerment

443
00:14:39,166 --> 00:14:42,200
and giving people access to financial services

444
00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:44,200
that were previously out of reach

445
00:14:44,366 --> 00:14:46,200
yeah and facilitating faster

446
00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:48,333
in cheaper cross border payments

447
00:14:48,333 --> 00:14:49,500
it's really inspiring to see

448
00:14:49,500 --> 00:14:51,600
how crypto is helping create a more inclusive

449
00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:53,633
and equitable financial system

450
00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:54,700
it really is yeah

451
00:14:54,700 --> 00:14:56,100
this is just the beginning right

452
00:14:56,100 --> 00:14:56,466
oh yeah

453
00:14:56,466 --> 00:14:57,566
just a tip of the iceberg

454
00:14:57,566 --> 00:14:59,566
as the technology keeps evolving

455
00:14:59,566 --> 00:15:00,366
we can expect

456
00:15:00,366 --> 00:15:03,333
even more innovative applications to emerge totally

457
00:15:03,333 --> 00:15:05,666
which will transform the way we interact with money

458
00:15:05,666 --> 00:15:07,433
and finance even further for sure

459
00:15:07,566 --> 00:15:09,266
the future of crypto is super exciting

460
00:15:09,266 --> 00:15:11,366
it is but like any emerging technology

461
00:15:11,366 --> 00:15:12,600
there are definitely risks

462
00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:14,466
and challenges that we need to address

463
00:15:14,500 --> 00:15:15,200
of course yeah

464
00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:16,500
like what kinds of things

465
00:15:16,500 --> 00:15:19,166
well things like security regulation

466
00:15:19,166 --> 00:15:20,900
environmental sustainability

467
00:15:20,966 --> 00:15:21,700
those are all

468
00:15:21,700 --> 00:15:24,300
really important issues that we need to consider

469
00:15:24,300 --> 00:15:27,400
as crypto becomes more mainstream yeah

470
00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:29,900
we can't just focus on building cool tech

471
00:15:30,133 --> 00:15:32,566
we need to make sure it's being used for good

472
00:15:33,066 --> 00:15:35,300
and that the benefits are shared widely

473
00:15:35,300 --> 00:15:38,600
exactly and that requires collaboration

474
00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:40,933
yeah between between developers

475
00:15:40,933 --> 00:15:42,933
policy makers regulators

476
00:15:42,933 --> 00:15:45,266
and the wider community it's a big challenge

477
00:15:45,266 --> 00:15:46,400
it is it's complex

478
00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:48,200
but it's one that we need to tackle head on

479
00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:51,100
totally to make sure that the future of crypto is both

480
00:15:51,100 --> 00:15:52,700
innovative and sustainable

481
00:15:52,700 --> 00:15:54,200
well sad right

482
00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:57,000
so this deep dive into the Electric Capital report

483
00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:58,500
has given us a lot to think about

484
00:15:58,500 --> 00:16:00,066
it has it's been fascinating

485
00:16:00,066 --> 00:16:01,866
yeah it's provided a great snapshot

486
00:16:01,866 --> 00:16:03,333
of the current state of the crypto

487
00:16:03,333 --> 00:16:04,700
developer landscape yeah

488
00:16:04,700 --> 00:16:07,366
highlighting the trends the challenges

489
00:16:07,466 --> 00:16:07,866
and

490
00:16:07,866 --> 00:16:09,900
all those incredible opportunities that are out there

491
00:16:09,900 --> 00:16:11,966
it's a reminder that the crypto revolution

492
00:16:11,966 --> 00:16:13,966
isn't just about technology right

493
00:16:13,966 --> 00:16:15,733
it's about people the developers

494
00:16:15,733 --> 00:16:16,866
the entrepreneurs the users

495
00:16:16,866 --> 00:16:17,300
yeah

496
00:16:17,300 --> 00:16:20,000
it's about all of us who are embracing this technology

497
00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:21,700
and making it part of our lives

498
00:16:21,700 --> 00:16:24,066
and it's a global movement right absolutely

499
00:16:24,333 --> 00:16:25,733
the people from all over the world

500
00:16:25,733 --> 00:16:28,866
contributing to its growth and evolution

501
00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:30,766
before we wrap up this section

502
00:16:31,266 --> 00:16:34,066
I wanna hear from you our listener yeah

503
00:16:34,066 --> 00:16:35,400
what are you thinking about all this

504
00:16:35,533 --> 00:16:37,600
what insights resonated with you

505
00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:39,166
what surprised you what excited you

506
00:16:39,166 --> 00:16:41,266
leave us a comment send us an email

507
00:16:41,266 --> 00:16:43,133
we'd love to hear your perspective

508
00:16:43,133 --> 00:16:44,533
because we're always eager to

509
00:16:44,533 --> 00:16:45,833
engage with our listeners

510
00:16:46,100 --> 00:16:47,500
and learn from your insights

511
00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:48,133
the crypto

512
00:16:48,133 --> 00:16:51,133
world thrives on dialogue and shared knowledge

513
00:16:51,133 --> 00:16:53,733
so we'll be back soon to wrap up this whole episode

514
00:16:53,733 --> 00:16:56,266
yep and share our final thoughts on what all this means

515
00:16:56,266 --> 00:16:58,766
for the future of crypto but until then

516
00:16:58,933 --> 00:17:00,966
stay with us it's cool how they're each like

517
00:17:00,966 --> 00:17:04,600
catering to a different part of that NFT life cycle

518
00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:05,600
yeah you know

519
00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:07,466
based being built on Ethereum

520
00:17:07,466 --> 00:17:10,200
benefits from all that established infrastructure

521
00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:11,400
and security right

522
00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:13,166
makes it a really solid platform

523
00:17:13,166 --> 00:17:15,800
for actually creating and minting NFTs

524
00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:18,600
make sense then you've got Salono with those crazy fast

525
00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:20,233
low cost transactions

526
00:17:20,266 --> 00:17:23,566
perfect for that fast paced world of NFT trading

527
00:17:23,566 --> 00:17:23,733
yeah

528
00:17:23,733 --> 00:17:26,000
it's like they're each specializing in their own thing

529
00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:27,100
yeah exactly

530
00:17:27,100 --> 00:17:29,000
and it's not just about the tech either right

531
00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:29,600
it's about

532
00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:31,800
the communities that are drawn to those chains

533
00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:35,500
yeah Salona's got this super vibrant community of NFT

534
00:17:35,500 --> 00:17:37,066
lovers and traders oh yeah

535
00:17:37,066 --> 00:17:40,200
for sure which just makes it even more of a hub for NFT

536
00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:41,200
transactions right

537
00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:43,000
it's like a snowball effect totally

538
00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:45,333
the more people use it the more attractive it becomes

539
00:17:45,333 --> 00:17:47,966
okay so this specialization isn't just limited to NFTs

540
00:17:47,966 --> 00:17:49,066
though right nope

541
00:17:49,133 --> 00:17:51,900
the report also pointed out Solana's dominance

542
00:17:51,933 --> 00:17:54,500
in the decentralized exchange space

543
00:17:54,533 --> 00:17:55,866
right DX yeah

544
00:17:55,866 --> 00:17:58,100
it's grabbing most of those DX transactions

545
00:17:59,066 --> 00:18:02,000
and has the highest number of unique trading wallets

546
00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:04,633
they've really made a name for themselves in that world

547
00:18:04,866 --> 00:18:07,733
yeah their high transaction speeds and low fees

548
00:18:07,733 --> 00:18:09,200
are a big draw for traders

549
00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:10,966
no huge yeah

550
00:18:10,966 --> 00:18:13,066
especially those who wanna make trades

551
00:18:13,066 --> 00:18:14,766
quickly and efficiently right

552
00:18:14,766 --> 00:18:18,066
and having the highest number of unique trading wallets

553
00:18:18,333 --> 00:18:20,900
means they're attracting all sorts of user

554
00:18:20,900 --> 00:18:23,066
yeah from individuals to big institutions

555
00:18:23,066 --> 00:18:24,900
exactly it's a diverse crowd

556
00:18:24,900 --> 00:18:26,500
but base is coming up strong too right

557
00:18:26,500 --> 00:18:27,600
yeah oh yeah

558
00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:29,200
definitely a contender yeah

559
00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:31,500
the ranked second for unique trading laws

560
00:18:31,500 --> 00:18:33,533
which is pretty impressive for a newcomer

561
00:18:33,533 --> 00:18:35,900
yeah I think it's that Ethereum connection again

562
00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:40,066
probably gives them that credibility and security right

563
00:18:40,066 --> 00:18:42,266
while still offering users a faster

564
00:18:42,266 --> 00:18:44,766
and cheaper experience the best of both worlds

565
00:18:44,766 --> 00:18:47,366
yeah it'll be fun to watch how this competition unfolds

566
00:18:47,366 --> 00:18:48,000
no yeah

567
00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:49,366
for sure okay

568
00:18:49,366 --> 00:18:54,866
so the report also mention liquid restaking tokens lrts

569
00:18:55,066 --> 00:18:56,566
yeah as a hot new sector

570
00:18:56,566 --> 00:18:58,900
it's definitely gaining traction

571
00:18:58,933 --> 00:19:00,066
but to be honest

572
00:19:00,500 --> 00:19:03,200
I'm still a bit fuzzy on the whole restaking concept

573
00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:05,033
yeah it's a bit of a mindbender

574
00:19:05,333 --> 00:19:06,666
it is but basically

575
00:19:06,666 --> 00:19:10,566
LRTs let you earn rewards from staking your crypto

576
00:19:10,566 --> 00:19:12,800
while still keeping your tokens liquid

577
00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:15,766
okay so you can trade them or use them however you want

578
00:19:15,933 --> 00:19:17,766
so it's like getting the benefits of staking

579
00:19:17,766 --> 00:19:19,166
without having to lock up your token

580
00:19:19,166 --> 00:19:21,266
exactly it's all about flexibility

581
00:19:21,366 --> 00:19:23,266
I like that and maximizing your return

582
00:19:23,266 --> 00:19:23,800
so Igan

583
00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:26,533
Layer is the company behind this whole restaking thing

584
00:19:26,533 --> 00:19:28,066
yeah they're the pioneers

585
00:19:28,166 --> 00:19:29,333
and the report showed

586
00:19:29,333 --> 00:19:31,800
they had 130% increase

587
00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:33,400
in their full time developer team

588
00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:35,600
wow so that shows you how much interest there

589
00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:38,666
is in this sector definitely a lot of money flowing in

590
00:19:38,866 --> 00:19:40,900
it's amazing how crypto just keeps evolving

591
00:19:40,900 --> 00:19:43,100
it really does it's hard to keep up sometimes

592
00:19:43,100 --> 00:19:44,800
it is but it's also super exciting

593
00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:46,066
oh yeah for sure

594
00:19:46,066 --> 00:19:48,133
but amidst all this new stuff

595
00:19:48,133 --> 00:19:50,733
we gotta remember those foundational technologies

596
00:19:50,733 --> 00:19:52,566
oh jeez like Bitcoin

597
00:19:52,566 --> 00:19:53,366
yeah you know

598
00:19:53,366 --> 00:19:54,733
good chunk of Bitcoin developers

599
00:19:54,733 --> 00:19:57,100
are still focus on those scaling solutions right

600
00:19:57,100 --> 00:19:59,166
makes sense with all the hype around these newer

601
00:19:59,166 --> 00:20:00,566
faster blockchains

602
00:20:01,300 --> 00:20:03,566
it's easy to forget that Bitcoin is still

603
00:20:03,566 --> 00:20:05,866
the biggest and most established crypto out there

604
00:20:05,866 --> 00:20:07,333
it's the granddaddy of them all

605
00:20:07,333 --> 00:20:08,866
yeah and as more people use it

606
00:20:08,866 --> 00:20:11,000
scalability becomes even more critical

607
00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:13,100
totally because the current Bitcoin network

608
00:20:13,100 --> 00:20:14,766
does have its limitations

609
00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:17,133
especially with transactions

610
00:20:17,133 --> 00:20:19,133
speed and cost it does

611
00:20:19,133 --> 00:20:21,466
so finding ways to improve its efficiency

612
00:20:21,466 --> 00:20:23,466
in capacity is crucial absolutely

613
00:20:23,466 --> 00:20:24,966
gotta keep up with the demand right

614
00:20:24,966 --> 00:20:26,566
so are these Bitcoin developers

615
00:20:26,566 --> 00:20:29,200
mainly focusing on those layer 2 solutions

616
00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:31,333
yeah that seems to be the main focus

617
00:20:31,333 --> 00:20:31,733
oh okay

618
00:20:31,733 --> 00:20:33,066
I've been hearing a lot about those

619
00:20:33,066 --> 00:20:34,600
they're a pretty big deal

620
00:20:34,700 --> 00:20:36,100
so how do they work basically

621
00:20:36,100 --> 00:20:37,800
they create a separate layer

622
00:20:37,866 --> 00:20:40,733
on top of the main bitcoin blockchain

623
00:20:40,733 --> 00:20:43,333
okay to handle transactions more efficiently

624
00:20:43,333 --> 00:20:46,166
got it so you get faster and cheaper transactions

625
00:20:46,500 --> 00:20:49,200
but without compromising the security of that

626
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:50,933
underlying Bitcoin network

627
00:20:50,933 --> 00:20:51,600
oh that's smart

628
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:55,133
it is it's like adding an express lane to a highway

629
00:20:55,133 --> 00:20:56,600
I love that analogy right

630
00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:58,500
just to ease that congestion

631
00:20:58,500 --> 00:21:00,800
so even with all these new blockchains

632
00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:02,433
and applications popping up

633
00:21:02,500 --> 00:21:05,266
there's still a lot of innovation happening

634
00:21:05,266 --> 00:21:06,700
within the Bitcoin ecosystem

635
00:21:06,700 --> 00:21:07,500
absolutely

636
00:21:07,500 --> 00:21:10,333
it's evolving right alongside everything else

637
00:21:10,333 --> 00:21:12,500
it's a good reminder that crypto isn't a winner

638
00:21:12,500 --> 00:21:13,933
take all game nope

639
00:21:13,933 --> 00:21:15,733
there's room for multiple players

640
00:21:15,733 --> 00:21:18,900
yeah multiple blockchains and technologies can coexist

641
00:21:18,900 --> 00:21:21,266
and thrive together and compliment each other

642
00:21:21,266 --> 00:21:23,500
exactly and speaking of thriving

643
00:21:23,700 --> 00:21:24,933
the report also highlighted

644
00:21:24,933 --> 00:21:26,800
the growing popularity of stablecoins

645
00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:27,533
oh yeah

646
00:21:27,533 --> 00:21:29,166
they've become essential yeah

647
00:21:29,166 --> 00:21:30,566
they offer a much more stable

648
00:21:30,566 --> 00:21:32,100
and predictable way to transact

649
00:21:32,100 --> 00:21:34,600
with digital currencies exactly

650
00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:37,233
they're like a bridge between traditional finance

651
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:39,100
and the crypto world yeah

652
00:21:39,100 --> 00:21:41,533
making it easier for everyone to use crypto

653
00:21:41,533 --> 00:21:43,766
for everyday stuff like the report said

654
00:21:43,766 --> 00:21:46,366
there's $196 billion in stable coins

655
00:21:46,366 --> 00:21:47,666
circulating right now

656
00:21:47,700 --> 00:21:51,300
with a daily transaction volume of $81 billion

657
00:21:51,300 --> 00:21:52,933
those are some serious numbers

658
00:21:52,933 --> 00:21:54,600
it just shows how much they're being

659
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:56,133
embraced by both individuals

660
00:21:56,133 --> 00:21:57,566
and businesses totally

661
00:21:57,600 --> 00:21:59,533
and they're not just for simple transactions either

662
00:21:59,533 --> 00:21:59,933
nope

663
00:21:59,933 --> 00:22:03,166
they're playing a big role in decentralized finance

664
00:22:03,166 --> 00:22:04,366
defi yeah

665
00:22:04,366 --> 00:22:06,700
enabling all sorts of financial services

666
00:22:06,866 --> 00:22:08,933
without needing those traditional intermediaries

667
00:22:08,933 --> 00:22:10,766
it's all about cutting out the middle man

668
00:22:11,066 --> 00:22:11,766
yeah

669
00:22:11,766 --> 00:22:14,600
and the report also mentioned the success of Bitcoin

670
00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:16,066
etfs oh yeah

671
00:22:16,066 --> 00:22:17,266
those are doing really well

672
00:22:17,266 --> 00:22:17,800
yeah it's

673
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:18,500
another sign that

674
00:22:18,500 --> 00:22:20,366
traditional finance is starting to take crypto

675
00:22:20,366 --> 00:22:21,900
seriously absolutely

676
00:22:21,900 --> 00:22:23,066
because bitcoin etfs

677
00:22:23,066 --> 00:22:25,100
let investors get exposure to Bitcoin

678
00:22:25,100 --> 00:22:26,666
through those traditional markets

679
00:22:26,966 --> 00:22:28,200
and the fact that some of those

680
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:31,233
ETF launches are among the most successful in history

681
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:34,166
shows that cryptocurrencies are becoming more accepted

682
00:22:34,166 --> 00:22:35,400
they're making their way into mainstream

683
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:38,333
investment portfolios it's a clear sign that crypto

684
00:22:38,333 --> 00:22:39,966
isn't on the fringes anymore

685
00:22:39,966 --> 00:22:41,633
it's moving into the mainstream

686
00:22:41,766 --> 00:22:43,466
yeah becoming more integrated into

687
00:22:43,466 --> 00:22:44,966
the global financial system

688
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:47,100
and as that integration continues

689
00:22:47,100 --> 00:22:49,733
we can expect even more institutional investment

690
00:22:49,733 --> 00:22:51,766
which could lead to even more growth

691
00:22:51,766 --> 00:22:53,700
and maturity for the market totally

692
00:22:54,166 --> 00:22:56,000
it's an exciting time to be in crypto

693
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:56,900
it really is

694
00:22:57,500 --> 00:22:59,366
alright so welcome back to the deep dive

695
00:22:59,366 --> 00:23:00,866
we've spent this whole episode

696
00:23:00,866 --> 00:23:02,800
exploring the world of crypto developers

697
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:04,266
yeah it's been a journey

698
00:23:04,266 --> 00:23:05,866
their global reach and how

699
00:23:05,866 --> 00:23:08,366
the whole crypto landscape is becoming so incredibly

700
00:23:08,366 --> 00:23:09,166
diverse

701
00:23:09,733 --> 00:23:11,500
but now it's time to take a step back

702
00:23:11,666 --> 00:23:13,700
and think about what all this means for the future

703
00:23:13,700 --> 00:23:15,500
it seems pretty clear from the data

704
00:23:15,500 --> 00:23:17,533
that the crypto ecosystem is maturing

705
00:23:17,533 --> 00:23:19,900
moving beyond those early experimental days

706
00:23:19,900 --> 00:23:21,700
yeah and we're seeing that growing

707
00:23:21,700 --> 00:23:23,633
integration with mainstream finance

708
00:23:23,700 --> 00:23:26,600
both in terms of like the tech itself and the adoption

709
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,333
totally the success of stablecoins and Bitcoin

710
00:23:29,333 --> 00:23:30,966
etfs is definitely proof of that

711
00:23:30,966 --> 00:23:32,533
it shows that traditional finance

712
00:23:32,533 --> 00:23:34,266
is starting to take crypto seriously

713
00:23:34,266 --> 00:23:36,400
right and this integration is only gonna accelerate

714
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:38,200
as developers keep innovating

715
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:39,166
absolutely

716
00:23:39,166 --> 00:23:41,800
as they build more user friendly applications right

717
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:44,266
because as the user experience gets better

718
00:23:44,466 --> 00:23:47,333
more people are gonna feel comfortable using crypto

719
00:23:47,333 --> 00:23:49,700
for everyday stuff exactly

720
00:23:49,933 --> 00:23:50,933
not just for transactions

721
00:23:50,933 --> 00:23:51,733
but for investments

722
00:23:51,733 --> 00:23:53,000
and things we haven't even thought of yet

723
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:55,333
yeah so it's not just about the tech getting better

724
00:23:55,333 --> 00:23:57,966
it's about making crypto more accessible

725
00:23:58,133 --> 00:24:00,133
and appealing to a much wider audience

726
00:24:00,133 --> 00:24:03,566
absolutely the key to mass adoption is making crypto

727
00:24:03,566 --> 00:24:05,300
easy to understand and use

728
00:24:05,533 --> 00:24:07,133
even for people who aren't tech savvy

729
00:24:07,133 --> 00:24:08,700
right and that's where developers come in

730
00:24:08,700 --> 00:24:10,266
they're the ones who can bridge that gap

731
00:24:10,266 --> 00:24:13,300
yeah by creating those intuitive interfaces

732
00:24:13,300 --> 00:24:14,166
and applications

733
00:24:14,166 --> 00:24:16,533
that make crypto accessible to everyone

734
00:24:16,533 --> 00:24:18,366
it's like the early days of the internet

735
00:24:18,500 --> 00:24:18,800
oh yeah

736
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,366
it was super technical and confusing for most people

737
00:24:21,366 --> 00:24:22,366
at first yeah

738
00:24:22,366 --> 00:24:22,733
but then

739
00:24:22,733 --> 00:24:25,866
those user friendly browsers and platforms came along

740
00:24:25,866 --> 00:24:28,533
right and suddenly anyone could navigate the web

741
00:24:28,533 --> 00:24:29,800
that's a great analogy yeah

742
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:29,933
so

743
00:24:29,933 --> 00:24:31,966
we're seeing a similar evolution happening in crypto

744
00:24:31,966 --> 00:24:33,466
right now absolutely yeah

745
00:24:33,466 --> 00:24:37,033
as developers create those user friendly tools

746
00:24:37,133 --> 00:24:39,466
those barriers to entry are gonna come down

747
00:24:39,466 --> 00:24:41,733
yeah an adoption will just naturally increase

748
00:24:41,733 --> 00:24:44,766
exactly it's all about making it easy and intuitive

749
00:24:44,766 --> 00:24:47,600
it feels like we're on the verge of this massive shift

750
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,666
yeah in how we think about and use money technology

751
00:24:50,666 --> 00:24:52,100
even the internet itself

752
00:24:52,566 --> 00:24:54,833
it's definitely a transformative time

753
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:55,666
yeah

754
00:24:55,666 --> 00:24:58,200
and while we can't predict the future with certainty

755
00:24:58,500 --> 00:25:00,966
all these trends are pointing towards crypto

756
00:25:01,133 --> 00:25:03,066
playing an even bigger role in our lives

757
00:25:03,066 --> 00:25:03,766
oh for sure

758
00:25:03,766 --> 00:25:06,366
but with all this innovation and disruption

759
00:25:06,366 --> 00:25:08,100
comes responsibility too

760
00:25:08,100 --> 00:25:10,833
absolutely as crypto becomes more mainstream

761
00:25:10,900 --> 00:25:11,666
we have to

762
00:25:11,666 --> 00:25:14,466
address those ethical and societal implications

763
00:25:14,466 --> 00:25:17,700
like what things like ensuring privacy and security

764
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:19,866
promoting financial inclusion

765
00:25:20,100 --> 00:25:21,600
and mitigating the environmental

766
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:23,733
impact of blockchain technology

767
00:25:23,733 --> 00:25:25,500
or we can't just focus on building cool tech

768
00:25:25,500 --> 00:25:27,000
we gotta make sure it's being used for good

769
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:29,900
exactly and that the benefits are shared widely

770
00:25:29,900 --> 00:25:31,666
and that requires a lot of collaboration right

771
00:25:31,666 --> 00:25:33,100
yeah between developers

772
00:25:33,100 --> 00:25:34,400
policymakers regulators

773
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,000
the whole community it's a complex challenge

774
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,333
it is but it's one we need to tackle proactively

775
00:25:40,333 --> 00:25:41,266
yeah to make sure that

776
00:25:41,266 --> 00:25:43,133
the future of crypto is both innovative

777
00:25:43,133 --> 00:25:44,866
and sustainable for sure

778
00:25:44,866 --> 00:25:47,400
it's a balancing act so we've talked about the trends

779
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:49,500
the potential the responsibilities

780
00:25:49,700 --> 00:25:51,766
but what does all this mean for our listener

781
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,566
the person who tuned into this deep dive

782
00:25:54,733 --> 00:25:57,900
and is now armed with all these insights about crypto

783
00:25:57,900 --> 00:25:59,400
developers what's really cool is that

784
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:01,200
you don't have to be a developer to be a part of this

785
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:02,366
right as a listener

786
00:26:02,366 --> 00:26:05,566
you now have a deeper understanding of what's shaping

787
00:26:05,566 --> 00:26:07,366
the crypto landscape yeah

788
00:26:07,366 --> 00:26:09,500
you can use this knowledge to make smarter

789
00:26:09,500 --> 00:26:12,000
decisions about your own involvement with crypto

790
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:13,366
whether you're an investor

791
00:26:13,366 --> 00:26:15,366
a user or just someone who's curious

792
00:26:15,366 --> 00:26:17,800
I love that knowledge is power exactly

793
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:18,366
and now

794
00:26:18,366 --> 00:26:21,133
our listeners have this incredible toolbox of insights

795
00:26:21,133 --> 00:26:22,600
right they can see beyond the hype

796
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:24,500
and understand those underlying trends

797
00:26:24,500 --> 00:26:25,666
they can ask better questions

798
00:26:25,666 --> 00:26:28,266
when they hear about a new crypto project or trend

799
00:26:28,266 --> 00:26:29,500
they can even start to spot

800
00:26:29,500 --> 00:26:31,600
potential opportunities and risks

801
00:26:31,700 --> 00:26:35,166
this deep dive wasn't just about listening passively

802
00:26:35,266 --> 00:26:37,733
it was about empowering our listeners

803
00:26:37,733 --> 00:26:38,900
to become active

804
00:26:38,900 --> 00:26:40,900
participants in the crypto conversation

805
00:26:40,900 --> 00:26:41,966
exactly yeah

806
00:26:41,966 --> 00:26:44,600
and as the crypto world keeps evolving

807
00:26:44,666 --> 00:26:45,700
staying informed and

808
00:26:45,700 --> 00:26:47,900
engaged is gonna be more important than ever

809
00:26:47,900 --> 00:26:49,500
this report from Electric Capital

810
00:26:49,500 --> 00:26:50,900
is a great starting point

811
00:26:50,900 --> 00:26:53,466
but it doesn't end there the journey continues

812
00:26:53,466 --> 00:26:56,600
so keep exploring keep asking questions

813
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,466
keep learning the crypto world is full of surprises

814
00:26:59,466 --> 00:27:01,966
and the best way to understand it is to dive in

815
00:27:01,966 --> 00:27:03,800
and experience it firsthand

816
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,800
and remember the future of crypto isn't set in stone

817
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,533
it's being shaped right now by the choices we make

818
00:27:09,533 --> 00:27:10,900
the technologies we develop

819
00:27:10,900 --> 00:27:13,366
the communities we build so go out there

820
00:27:13,366 --> 00:27:14,966
explore the crypto world

821
00:27:14,966 --> 00:27:16,833
and be a part of building that future

822
00:27:17,333 --> 00:27:20,066
thanks for joining us on this deep dive until next time