WEBVTT

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a couple of days ago on my TikTok feed and somebody

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was talking about this. And this is one of the

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VPs, the big VPs over at Wizards of the Coast.

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And he he came out and of course it was on LinkedIn,

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right? Came out on LinkedIn. LinkedIn is fucking

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useless. Anyway, about the future of Dungeons

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and Dragons. And so I'm going to read his statement.

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And Jay, I want you to know what I want to know

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what you think. He goes. He talks a lot about

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coming to Wizards of the Coast and what he's

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doing. He goes, here's what we did today. We

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shifted our structure internally and D &D moved

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to a full franchise model, meaning everything.

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Books, video games, film, and TV. Everything

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touching the franchise lives under one roof.

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The impact here cannot be overstated. This is

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massive for D &D and will allow a strong, coordinated,

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and well -funded approach for the franchise,

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and most importantly, for the fans. So they've

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moved on to a franchise model basically saying

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nope, we're not we're not really a game publisher

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anymore Are you in any way surprised by this

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move by Wizards of the Coast? Not really no,

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I mean no Are you surprised by this? No, and

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I think one of the reasons I wanted to touch

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on this story This for a lot of people who were

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who've been talking about this and I ran it again

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I ran to this a lot of my tick -tock right which

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was we're so surprised Dude they've been and

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I put this out a few weeks ago my tick -tock

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with something else happened They've been telegraphing

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this for years for years. They've been talking

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about this now I'm going to tell you whose fault

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it is It's gamers fault It's y 'all's fault You

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did this right Because I and I love you guys

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right, but here's the facts, right You guys they

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don't especially tabletop RPG players right y

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'all don't spend money you spend shit You don't

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spend any fucking because it's not like magic.

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It's not like Pokemon. It's not like other games

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like video games even right Tabletop RPG players

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do not spend money right and Every release in

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an addition is a law of diminishing returns,

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right? And I'm going to explain this and Jay

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feel free to jump in here anytime You think what

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I'm saying is wrong or you'd like to add to the

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record? Okay, let's take an average five player

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group five of you In an average five player group,

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four of them are going to buy the player's handbook.

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Four of you are going to buy the player's handbook.

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Why? Because there's always going to be that

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one guy in the group that just borrows everybody

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else's shit and doesn't buy the player's handbook.

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The DM's guide. The DM's going to buy it and

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then there's going to be the other guy in the

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group who's just kind of a completionist and

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a collector and he's going to buy it. That's

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two. Monster manual, same thing. DM's going to

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buy it. One per group and the one guy who's a

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completionist, right? Well, now you've gotten

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through the three core books. Now let's talk

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about adventure modules. Who buys that? The DM.

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You buy one per five players. One, okay? Rise

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of Tiamat, Curse of Strahd. Doesn't matter. You're

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not buying five copies per play group. You're

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just not, okay? Every single release is a law

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of diminishing returns, okay? This is why they've

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been pushing to a subscription model. This is

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why they've been doing all the other BS they've

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been doing. And Baldur's Gate 3 taught them a

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lesson. The tabletop community is just not that

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big. They knew this already and Wizards knows

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how big the community is. The amount of people

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who play tabletop RPGs compared to the amount

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of people who play video games, watch television,

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go to movies, right, is miniscule. Right? And

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what Dungeons & Dragons has is a very valuable,

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very recognizable intellectual property that's

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been around for 50 fucking years. Right? And

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quite frankly, again, it's a law of diminishing

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returns. Okay? And you guys don't spend money.

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Right? That's it. I mean, that's really what

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it boils down to. Okay? And so am I in any way

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shocked that they're going, hey, we got to go

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full franchise mode, right? This is MCU of fucking

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role playing games, right? Nope, not surprised

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at all. And again, I've said this and you can

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go back on this fucking channel. You can go to

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my TikTok. You can go back to this channel though.

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And how many times I've said, if Dungeons and

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Dragons, if Wizards of the Coast could never

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publish another fucking book again, they wouldn't.

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They don't want to be in the printing business

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and they don't want to be in the logistics business

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Fuck that. Why do I want to print things and

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ship it deal with tariffs and all this other

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BS? Nope Okay It's it's there okay Before I get

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to the the chat questions that are coming in

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along this thingy Jay, do you have any anything

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to add to my sorry guys like It sucks, but this

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is what it is. No, because like, I, I think you're

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a hundred percent correct. Like, um, I, this

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is something I didn't really understand, um,

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because like, once you come out with a rule book,

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like, I know that there's multiple additions

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to the rule book. I really do. But once you have

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a rule book and like, you're a DM, like why would

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you need another rule book? Like once you, once

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you buy, you can also just like go to eBay, right?

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And just buy secondhand. You don't have to buy

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books. Um, and then we covered this like a few

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weeks ago, I believe like using AI to like help

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DMS, like, and then you're just cutting, you're

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cutting Dungeons and Dragons completely out.

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Like it's, I, Yeah, I, I'm not surprised. And

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I, you know, we talked about this, even at Comic

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-Con, like the printing business itself is a

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horrible business to be in. Like it's hard to

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actually make that profitable. So yeah, I'm not

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surprised by this. Um, yeah, I don't know. That's

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a, that's really all I have to say about it.

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Um, somebody in the chat says, Prices have gone

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up and paychecks have gone down. This is true.

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This is absolutely true. And the cost of this

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has changed significantly. And it's also due

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to changing consumer habits, right? Because I'm

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going to combine two other questions that just

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came in the chat. Why did it work for all those

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years before? And this wasn't a problem in the

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80s and 90s. And I will explain this. Very, very

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easily. Right. And I saw this when I was publishing

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my game and I've talked to I don't know how many

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publishers. OK. And if I knew this question was

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going to come in, I would have grabbed a couple

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of books. In fact, I'm going to do that right

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now. So hang on two seconds. OK, quickly while

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he's gone, let's talk about the real topics like.

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I think Alex should get better lighting in his

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bookshelf. Like, what is that? Like, where is

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he? He's in the darkness. Like, he has a lightsaber.

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It's a light. Top right corner. That thing turns

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on. Like, why is that not on? You know, I mean,

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oh, he's back. Okay. Okay. Oh, okay. He's back.

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Somebody, somebody asked. Somebody asked the

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question so now I'm gonna answer the question

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Okay, and we're gonna talk about a design is

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an early early 2000s. Okay. This is a pretty

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cool little book right here It's for 3o. It's

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called the hero builders guidebook. It MSRPed

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for $14 and 95 cents. Okay Now I'm gonna kind

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of see if I could flip through this book so you

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guys can get it a few okay This it's a lot of

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words There's not a crap ton of art Okay It's

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a total of like 70 pages 64 pages Right and it's

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got a lot of like, you know Family stuff and

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how to do life events and how to build a character

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and it's just kind of a fun little splat book

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Okay, this was the last module that was released

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for Advanced Dungeons the Dragons second edition

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Okay, it's called the apocalypse stone. It was

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designed to destroy your campaign again black

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and white These are not gloss pages and there

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ain't much art in it. Okay Now we're gonna go

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this the 2014 players handbook, right? Okay very

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glossy pages and art fucking everywhere Art everywhere.

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Okay So here's the thing and again, I've talked

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to so many publishers about this. Okay Those

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first two books, which were like $14, $15, which

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are black and white, non -glossy pages with not

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much art, but a lot of gaming material. Do you

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know what happened to those books? Nobody bought

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them. Nobody bought them. Gamers now will not

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buy something unless it's in full color, with

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glossy pages, right? In hardcover, right? with

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lots and lots of art. And do you know what the

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single most expensive thing to put into a role

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-playing game book is? Art. The art cost for

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Identico was somewhere around $25 ,000. That's

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how much we spent on art. It was by far the single

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largest line item of cost to publish our game.

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Okay, and again the problem is gamers Will not

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even if the material is the best you could write

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the best material ever written. Okay Okay It

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will not sell Somebody in the chat saying this

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is a Gen Z issue. No, it really starts with Millennials

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So I'm gonna fully pull it on the millennial

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generation and here's the thing. It's filtered

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to the old timers, too They won't buy it anymore

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unless it's high quality, right? And I'll tell

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you something else. The printing cost, when you

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go to that higher quality of paper, that higher

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grade paper, that higher gloss paper, and in

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full color, right? The printing cost doubles.

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Doubles, okay? Somebody's saying, I will, yeah.

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You are the exception that proves the rule, okay?

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The reason it worked for so long is you could

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come out with a splat book like that, like five

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times a year, and as opposed to two people in

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the group buying it, like three or four of them

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would, right? and you can get a lot more out

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of it, right, until gamers just stop buying that

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stuff, right? It's like DLC. It honestly was

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a lot like DLC. You had your core book, your

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three core books, the player's guide, DM's guide,

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monster manual, and then every little piece of

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that, the stronghold builder's guide, the hero's

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book, all that stuff. It's DLC. That's what it

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is. And gamers right around the mid -aughts decided

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they were done with it. right they just weren't

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spending money on it anymore and that was not

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going to be the style of game they wanted anymore

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they didn't want all this stuff they didn't want

00:12:15.279 --> 00:12:17.000
crunchy they didn't want more stuff they didn't

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want too many words they wanted pretty pity okay

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now the other thing that somebody's going to

00:12:22.919 --> 00:12:24.539
come at me with is well what about the indie

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guys here's the thing i had the largest selection

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of independent rpgs in the entire seattle metro

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it hardly sold okay for all the talk about people

00:12:37.059 --> 00:12:40.360
who say they want indie RPGs they're you know

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i'm just gonna say they're fucking lying they

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are lying okay most of them are like oh i want

00:12:46.919 --> 00:12:50.759
to support it no you don't no you don't okay

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i had stacks of that crap and people just didn't

00:12:53.940 --> 00:13:00.600
buy it okay um so everybody who's getting upset

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that dnd is like oh we're going franchise mode

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Right? And Jeremy Crawford and Chris Perkins

00:13:07.519 --> 00:13:10.360
left Wizards. And D &D is not for the gamers

00:13:10.360 --> 00:13:12.399
anymore. Do you know why? Because you guys don't

00:13:12.399 --> 00:13:17.159
spend any money. That's all there is to it. Okay?

00:13:18.039 --> 00:13:20.480
Am I happy about this? Not particularly. I think

00:13:20.480 --> 00:13:25.440
it's iffy for the brand, but I'm not shocked

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because the amount of money they can make in

00:13:28.220 --> 00:13:31.600
TV, movies, and video games is ten times what

00:13:31.600 --> 00:13:44.139
they make in role -playing games. Yeah Yeah So

00:13:44.139 --> 00:13:46.000
if you're out there complaining about this whole

00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:48.879
D &D situation first off if you're surprised

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I don't know what to tell you I've been talking

00:13:51.279 --> 00:13:55.279
about this for Four or five years now on this

00:13:55.279 --> 00:13:58.019
show on other shows on every media book. None

00:13:58.019 --> 00:14:01.539
of this is a surprise D &D again, I encourage

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you to read their investor reports Jay and I

00:14:03.779 --> 00:14:05.919
have been over some of the investor reports from

00:14:05.919 --> 00:14:09.639
Wizards on this channel Right where we reviewed

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them. They've been telegraphing this for years

00:14:13.139 --> 00:14:17.500
that this was the way they were going So don't

00:14:17.500 --> 00:14:22.580
be don't be surprised and if you're upset I Don't

00:14:22.580 --> 00:14:27.399
know what to tell you Like what did you expect?

00:14:29.799 --> 00:14:31.480
Maybe actually and let me pose that question

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to you Jay Realistically for all the people who

00:14:34.980 --> 00:14:36.960
are upset about this. What what are they expecting?

00:14:37.039 --> 00:14:41.960
Like what about? What did, what did you expect

00:14:41.960 --> 00:14:46.559
to happen? Well, one, I don't know why you guys

00:14:46.559 --> 00:14:50.259
do this. You guys get like Alex. So wound up

00:14:50.259 --> 00:14:56.899
and upset. Um, come on now. Uh, but so I think,

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I, I think this is, you know, a lot of consumers,

00:15:05.620 --> 00:15:09.230
not all consumers. Okay. Maybe not the people

00:15:09.230 --> 00:15:11.769
in our chat that's watching our stream because

00:15:11.769 --> 00:15:17.669
you guys are amazing, but consumers want the

00:15:17.669 --> 00:15:22.210
world for nothing really. And you just can't

00:15:22.210 --> 00:15:26.610
do that. And I think they get upset when companies

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will pivot to try to make sure that they survive.

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Cause I mean, I think that, I mean, obviously

00:15:33.350 --> 00:15:35.509
they want to become richer and make more money,

00:15:35.509 --> 00:15:39.019
obviously, but, but also As a company, you have

00:15:39.019 --> 00:15:43.799
to make these pivots to try to stay afloat. Like,

00:15:43.799 --> 00:15:51.139
you know, Alex, I was there for the gamers after

00:15:51.139 --> 00:15:55.460
dark. That was a pivot for you guys. You have

00:15:55.460 --> 00:15:58.039
to kind of like sometimes test new things out,

00:15:58.100 --> 00:16:03.600
see how it works to try to stay afloat. So there

00:16:03.600 --> 00:16:16.049
you go. Yeah, I Don't know so some of the chance

00:16:16.049 --> 00:16:17.990
that gamers need to come to Jesus moment I think

00:16:17.990 --> 00:16:20.970
that this is a thing across kind of geek dumb

00:16:20.970 --> 00:16:28.789
It's it it comes down to I don't know if that's

00:16:28.789 --> 00:16:34.309
gonna happen there have been so many things There

00:16:34.309 --> 00:16:36.830
are so many things that have happened over the

00:16:36.830 --> 00:16:39.190
last four or five years from the OGL debacle

00:16:39.190 --> 00:16:42.009
To everything else that D &D has done sending

00:16:42.009 --> 00:16:43.730
Pinkerton's to people's houses and things like

00:16:43.730 --> 00:16:46.730
that That every time I turn around it was like

00:16:46.730 --> 00:16:48.990
I'm swearing off wizard. No, you're not. No,

00:16:48.990 --> 00:16:53.649
you're not The fact of the matter is is that

00:16:53.649 --> 00:16:57.009
that there come to Jesus is probably never gonna

00:16:57.009 --> 00:17:00.200
happen Somebody else said outside of things like

00:17:00.200 --> 00:17:02.039
D &D Beyond this is the end of RPGs. I don't

00:17:02.039 --> 00:17:04.200
think it's the end of RPGs Here's the thing about

00:17:04.200 --> 00:17:07.200
about RPGs and and a lot of people who know me

00:17:07.200 --> 00:17:09.599
know that I play with know this to this right

00:17:09.599 --> 00:17:13.000
here That's stacks of RPG books. You know, it's

00:17:13.000 --> 00:17:16.440
really cool about that. I own those I Have enough

00:17:16.440 --> 00:17:20.640
RPG shit in my thing and enough dice in my house

00:17:20.640 --> 00:17:23.400
where I can run campaigns until the day I die

00:17:23.400 --> 00:17:31.180
and never run out of material Never Because once

00:17:31.180 --> 00:17:34.039
you own the books once you have them they're

00:17:34.039 --> 00:17:37.920
yours Right and unlike video games. You can't

00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:40.980
take my you can't take my games away from me.

00:17:40.980 --> 00:17:44.740
My books are right there. They're mine So unless

00:17:44.740 --> 00:17:46.759
my house burns down you're not taking my RPGs

00:17:46.759 --> 00:17:50.160
away from me. So I Don't use the end of RPGs.

00:17:50.160 --> 00:17:52.039
I do think that this it's another one of the

00:17:52.039 --> 00:17:57.329
reasons why this industry struggles, right? And

00:17:57.329 --> 00:17:59.250
it goes back to the story we talked about earlier

00:17:59.250 --> 00:18:01.049
today, which is the diamond distribution story,

00:18:01.369 --> 00:18:04.549
right? Whether it's comic books or tabletop RPGs,

00:18:04.670 --> 00:18:06.670
these Geekdom thingies, because of the way the

00:18:06.670 --> 00:18:11.630
business runs, because of cashflow, like you

00:18:11.630 --> 00:18:18.390
are always two bad months away from done, right?

00:18:19.250 --> 00:18:21.910
That's what happened to us with our game store.

00:18:22.009 --> 00:18:24.069
We were just... two bad months away from being

00:18:24.069 --> 00:18:26.869
done all the time and then it just stacked us

00:18:26.869 --> 00:18:31.349
boom boom and then we were toast right um it

00:18:31.349 --> 00:18:34.369
was just nothing else we could do so take that

00:18:34.369 --> 00:18:37.549
for what it's worth uh jay do you have any closing

00:18:37.549 --> 00:18:41.890
thoughts on this particular topic that is how

00:18:41.890 --> 00:18:46.329
the cookie crumbles let us know down in the comments

00:18:46.329 --> 00:18:46.869
below