Welcome to another Dip Dive with us.
This time we're looking at Ben Francis, you know?
Jim Shark.
And it's interesting, right?
Because he built this whole business before he was 30.
Like he was still in his 20s when
he was running this multi-billion dollar business.
And he's got a really, really interesting story.
And the great thing is we're going straight to the source.
So we're using his interview on the diary of a CEO.
So we're getting this straight from Ben.
So we can really look and see what's going on here.
What's interesting to me about his story
is how it challenges that sort of typical prodigy
entrepreneur narrative.
Like Ben wasn't some straight A student destined
for greatness from day one.
It's actually much more a story about adaptability,
and being resilient, and always being willing to learn.
And in some cases, learning from very unexpected places.
Yeah.
And I think that's something that's really come through already
in just the first few minutes of the interview.
You know, like imagine him as a teenager.
He's working with his granddad.
Building furnaces.
Right.
That doesn't sound like a typical.
Not very glamorous.
Yeah.
Not really.
Now your typical route to a fitness apparel empire.
Oh, exactly.
Not what you think of.
But those years were so formative for him.
I mean, it was his first real taste of entrepreneurship.
It was observing firsthand the grit and the risk taking
and that hard work hustle that it takes to build something
from scratch.
I mean, it wasn't just about metal and fire.
It was about absorbing that mindset,
like a way of approaching challenges.
And those influences from those early years
can often be the foundation for success later on.
I think that's so true.
And it wasn't just the granddad.
His mom worked in the NHS.
So, you know.
Again, that incredible work ethic.
Dedication.
Day in, day out.
Putting in the time.
It's almost like the perfect recipe
for an ambitious entrepreneur, isn't it?
It really is.
It is.
I think it's interesting because Ben wasn't a star student.
He was getting mostly Ds.
Not exactly lighting the academic world on fire.
But then he gets into this BTEC IT course.
And things take a really unexpected turn.
You're probably wondering what does IT
have to do with fitness apparel.
I certainly was.
But as it turns out, that BTEC IT course,
it taught him Photoshop, Dreamweaver, Illustrator,
the very skills he would use to build Jim
Shark's first website.
To create the marketing materials.
Like talk about a light bulb moment.
It really is.
It's like the perfect example of seemingly unrelated skills.
Becoming the building blocks for something extraordinary.
His story reminds us that.
The path to success is not always linear.
It's about recognizing your strengths,
even if they come from these unexpected places,
and finding creative ways to apply them.
So now Jim Shark starts taking off.
Ben's got this new challenge, going from a one man
show to leading a team.
And he admits early on he had this kind of my way
or the highway attitude.
Oh yeah.
I mean, can you blame him?
He has this clear vision.
Right.
For Jim Shark.
Exactly.
This is his baby.
He knows exactly what he wants.
It's that classic entrepreneurial thing,
where you have this vision.
You know what you want.
And everyone else is just getting in the way.
Right.
It's a very common trap for entrepreneurs,
especially those who experience that early success.
Yeah.
But to Ben's credit, he quickly realizes
that this approach is holding Jim Shark back.
He realizes he can't do everything himself.
And he starts to surround himself with experts.
And that's where this incredible curiosity
that he has comes into play.
He's constantly asking questions,
learning from anyone he can, even at the gym.
That's where he meets his future CEO, Steve.
It's amazing.
It speaks to the power of networking.
But maybe more importantly, the power of mentorship.
Ben actively sought out guidance from experienced
individuals, like Paul, who he met at the gym,
Niren, an old school acquaintance,
who had e-commerce expertise.
He recognized his weaknesses and strategically built
a team to fill those gaps.
He's like building his own Avengers team, right?
Each member bringing their unique superpower
to the table.
Absolutely.
I love that analogy.
And this ability to recognize your limitations
and seek out those who excel where you don't
is a true hallmark of successful leadership.
It's not about being good at everything.
It's about building a team that complements your strengths
and helps you overcome your weaknesses.
And speaking of teams, let's talk about Ben's co-founder,
Lewis.
You know, they started Jim Shark together, strong bond.
But eventually, things went south.
Visions for the future diverged.
And they ultimately went their separate ways.
You know, it's a classic startup story, unfortunately.
That rapid growth can put a real strain on even
the strongest partnerships.
And in their case, it seems like a lack of clearly defined
roles and responsibilities might have added fuel to the fire.
It makes you think right.
Even with a strong partnership, clear boundaries,
expectations are crucial, especially as a company grows.
Prevent misunderstandings, make sure everyone's
on the same page, and hopefully avoid those tough splits
down the line.
You know, Ben's journey, it really
highlights the importance of self-awareness,
which can be a tough pill to swallow sometimes.
Especially when things are going well,
it's easy to get caught up in the whirlwind of success
and think you've got it all figured out.
Right, like it's lonely at the top.
Exactly.
And sometimes that loneliness comes from being surrounded
by people who are afraid to tell you the truth,
the hard truth.
People who don't want to burst your bubble.
Right.
And that's what makes what Ben did next so remarkable.
He decides to get 360-degree feedback,
meaning from people at all levels of the company.
Peer subordinate superiors.
Talk about putting yourself in the hot seat.
Yeah, he wasn't afraid of criticism, was he?
And that feedback, it wasn't exactly glowing.
Words like erratic, hotheaded, arrogant.
Ouch.
I mean, that's got to be tough to hear.
I can't imagine.
Especially when you're at the top of your game,
you're building the successful company.
And then you get this feedback that says,
hey, you're actually kind of a jerk.
Right, like the emperor has no clothes.
Exactly.
But you know what I think is so great about this?
Well, it's that he didn't just dismiss it.
Right.
He could have easily said, oh, you know these people,
they just don't get it.
They're just jealous.
Yeah.
They don't understand my vision.
But he didn't.
He took it to heart.
He really did.
And I love this story about his now-wife, Robin,
that he shows her the feedback.
Yeah.
And she just says, that's the most you thing I've ever read.
That's great.
I mean, it's amazing how sometimes the people closest
to us can see our blind spots so clearly.
Yeah.
They know us better than we know ourselves sometimes.
Sometimes.
And that moment, that was a turning point for Ben.
Yeah.
He realized he couldn't just ignore this feedback.
He had to change.
So he does what any good leader would do.
He makes a list.
Oh, a list.
A list.
On the list.
His strengths and his weaknesses.
Wow.
That takes some real honesty.
Right.
And self-awareness.
Exactly.
Actually sit down and do that.
And he decides, OK, I'm going to double down on my strengths.
You know the brand building, the product development,
marketing, the things he really excelled at.
And for his weaknesses, like finance and operations,
he brings in the experts.
Right.
Delegate.
That's when he asked Steve to step in as CEO.
It was a brilliant move.
He's creating this leadership dream team, each member
playing to their strengths.
Exactly.
And let's not forget this freeze up
Ben to focus on the things that he is truly passionate about.
Right.
The things that light him up.
Exactly.
And that brings us to another key theme in Ben's journey.
This idea of continuous learning.
He wasn't content to rest on his laurels.
He knew he had to keep pushing himself, keep growing.
He talks about taking public speaking lessons,
embracing opportunities that terrified him.
You know, learning by observing Steve's leadership style.
He was a sponge.
Totally.
And there's this great analogy he uses.
He compares himself to a chess piece.
Oh, I like that.
Being moved around the board, you know,
going from CEO to brand to marketing, eventually back to CEO.
It's a great analogy.
But each move provided invaluable learning experiences.
That shaped him as a leader.
It highlights the growth isn't always linear.
Right.
Sometimes it's about being open to different roles,
different experiences, embracing the twists and turns
along the way.
And speaking of twists and turns,
Ben's journey wasn't without its storms.
Remember that incident where a Gymshark employee responded
really poorly to a social media comment.
Oh, yeah.
I mean, it sparked this wave of negativity.
Death threats.
Yeah, death threats directed at Ben.
That's scary.
Talk about a test of his resilience and leadership.
Yeah.
He's facing immense public pressure.
How did he handle it?
Gracefully, with a focus on learning rather than punishment.
Interesting.
What really struck me, he didn't fire the employee.
He didn't.
No.
Wow.
He focused on fostering growth and understanding.
That's a really refreshing approach,
especially in today's cancel culture.
Right.
It's about recognizing that people make mistakes.
And sometimes the best response is
to focus on education and growth rather than punishment.
So we've seen how Ben went from building furnaces
to building a global brand, all while navigating
these complexities of leadership and personal growth.
But now let's look ahead.
What's his vision for the future of Gymshark?
Well, he's made it clear.
He's not just building a clothing company.
He's building a movement.
Right.
He wants Gymshark to be a global icon,
synonymous with self-improvement, and a community that
empowers people to be their best selves.
That's a big vision.
He is.
And to bring this vision to life,
he's got some ambitious plans.
Like what?
Well, for starters, he wants to open a flagship store
in London.
Wow, a physical store.
A physical store.
In this day and age, when so much is moving online.
Exactly.
In bold move.
It is.
He's not just about selling clothes.
He wants to create a physical space where the Gymshark
community can connect, train, experience the brand
in a tangible way.
I love that.
It speaks to his understanding that.
Even in a digital world, people still crave those real world
experiences.
That human connection.
And you know it's fascinating how he draws inspiration
from other successful entrepreneurs,
like Harley Finkelstein, Toby Lidka of Shopify.
He's always learning.
Always.
He's constantly seeking knowledge,
looking for ways to improve, never letting himself
get complacent.
And that's a key takeaway here.
No matter how successful you become,
there's always more to learn.
The best leaders are those who are constantly seeking
knowledge, asking questions, surrounding themselves
with people who can challenge their thinking.
And for all the aspiring entrepreneurs out there
listening, Ben offers some hard one advice.
Find your passion.
Don't be afraid to fail.
Use your job as a safety net.
Work hard, but work smart.
Those are words to live by.
They're not just platitudes.
They're principles that have guided him
throughout his entire journey.
But here's the thing that really struck me.
Ben admits that achieving his ultimate goal,
you know Jim Shark becoming this global icon,
it might actually feel bittersweet.
Really?
He says the journey itself has been so fulfilling
that reaching the destination might not
feel as satisfying as he imagined.
It's a profound insight.
It reminds us that sometimes.
The pursuit of a goal is more rewarding than the achievement
itself.
It's about the lessons learned, the relationships formed,
the personal growth experienced along the way.
Journey, not the destination.
Exactly.
So it makes you wonder, what are your goals?
And are you enjoying the journey as much as you
think you'll enjoy the destination?
That's such a powerful question to consider.
You know, it's not about copying Ben's path.
It's about finding your own path, your own passion,
and embracing the challenges and the rewards of that journey.
Right.
Your own unique journey.
Now, Ben's story isn't just about business success.
It's also about personal growth.
And one area where he's been incredibly open
is his evolving approach to emotions and communication.
Yeah, he's talked about how he wasn't raised in an environment
where feelings were openly expressed.
Right.
It was more about stoicism, resilience.
Like suck it up.
Yeah, exactly.
He even jokes about how his dad has probably never
uttered a feeling in his life.
It is funny.
But it also makes you realize how much our upbringing
shapes our communication style, especially when
it comes to emotions.
Right.
And then starting to recognize that this approach,
it might not be the most healthy or productive,
especially as he enters this new phase of life, fatherhood.
Yeah, that changes everything.
It does.
He talks about how he wants to be a different kind of father
to his children.
In what way?
Well, he wants to be more present, emotionally supportive,
create a space where they feel comfortable expressing
their feelings.
It's a sign of real maturity and growth.
He's acknowledging the limitations of his own upbringing
and making a conscious effort to break that cycle.
Yeah, create a different kind of legacy for his children.
Exactly.
And I think it's a reminder that even the most successful
people are works in progress.
You know, we're all constantly evolving, learning,
striving to be better versions of ourselves.
Absolutely.
And this willingness to embrace change,
to be open to new perspectives is perhaps
Ben's greatest strength.
It's what allowed him to build a billion dollar company,
navigate countless challenges, stay true to his vision,
while remaining grounded and relatable.
He's a living example of how vulnerability and strength
can go hand in hand.
You know, it's amazing to see how Ben's journey is just
this constant evolution, both as a leader and as a person.
But his story isn't just about personal growth.
It's also about building this company culture, you know,
that can thrive amidst rapid change.
And one thing that really stood out to me
was his emphasis on community.
Oh, absolutely.
He's incredibly passionate about fostering
that sense of belonging within Gymshark.
You know, they eat together, train together.
They share those stories that weave
the fabric of the brand.
It's not just about, you know, hitting sales targets.
It's about creating that shared purpose, that feeling
that you're part of something bigger.
In that community spirit, it extends beyond the office walls,
right, reaching their customers and fans, you know,
through social media and those incredible events they host.
Yeah, think about that event they held in Covent Garden.
I mean, it was more than just a marketing ploy, right?
It was a chance for the Gymshark community
to come together in the real world,
connect face to face, share their passion for fitness.
It's about building a movement, not just a brand.
And speaking of the real world, it's fascinating how Ben sees
the future of retail, especially as Gymshark gets ready
to open their first flagship store in London.
You know, in an age where so much is moving online,
he's making a bold statement about the power
of physical spaces.
Right, he envisions this store as a community hub,
a place where people can experience the Gymshark brand
in a tangible way, connect with others, participate in events.
It's a bold move that shows his understanding
that even in a digital world,
people crave those real world experiences.
It's a great example of how he challenges conventional thinking.
You know, he's not afraid to go against the grain experiment
with new ideas.
It's that adaptability that's been key to his success.
Totally, and he's equally thoughtful about the challenges
of scaling a brand while staying true to its core values.
He talks about this idea of a vanilla boulder,
like wanting to avoid becoming just another generic sportswear
brand.
I love that analogy.
It perfectly captures the essence of what he's trying to achieve.
You know, he wants Gymshark to retain its unique flavor,
its authenticity, even as it grows into this global giant.
And that brings us to his perspective on social media,
which has obviously played a huge role in Gymshark's success.
He's keenly aware of the power of social media,
but he also understands its fickle nature.
Right.
He knows that trends change, algorithms shift,
and what works today might not work tomorrow.
That's why he stresses the importance of building a brand
that's more than just a social media following.
It's about creating genuine connections,
fostering a sense of community, and offering value that
goes beyond likes and shares.
It's about building something that lasts something
with substance.
So as we wrap up our deep dive into the world of Ben Francis
and Gymshark, what are the key takeaways?
What can we learn from his incredible journey?
Well, I think his story is a powerful reminder
that success isn't a destination.
It's a journey.
It's about embracing the challenges, learning from the setbacks,
and constantly striving to be better.
It's about being adaptable, resilient, and never
losing sight of your core values.
And perhaps most importantly, it's
about finding your passion and pursuing it
with relentless determination.
Ben's story shows that with hard work,
a willingness to learn, and a bit of luck,
even the most ambitious dreams can become reality.
We hope this deep dive has inspired you
to think differently about your own goals
and the path you're taking to achieve them.
Remember, it's not about copying Ben's success,
but about finding your own unique path
and embracing the journey.
So keep learning, keep growing, and keep pushing yourself
to be the best version of yourself.
And until next time, keep diving deep.