1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,000 Welcome to our deep dive today. Oh, yeah into the world of marketing and consumer behavior 2 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:10,720 With with the fascinating Rory Sutherland as our guide, okay? 3 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:12,440 you 4 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:17,520 You shared his interview on the diary of a CEO with us and I have to say yeah 5 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:24,760 His book alchemy is full of aha moments absolute about why we value things the way we do so true 6 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:26,960 Really makes you think differently. Yeah 7 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:34,360 It really does about things you just take for granted have a knack for it. Yeah uncovering that hidden psychology behind 8 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:41,720 You know what makes us click that by button. Yeah, and the crazy thing is it's not yeah, it's not always rational 9 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:47,160 No, it's not always about like features and benefits and it's not spreadsheets 10 00:00:47,160 --> 00:00:51,800 Right, you know, it's it's very much how we feel right about a product 11 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:57,420 Mm-hmm how we perceive the value and and value, you know, he really emphasizes that perceived value 12 00:00:57,420 --> 00:01:01,080 Yeah, is just as real as the tangible features. Yeah 13 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:05,280 So one of the examples that really struck me, okay was 14 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:12,920 His analysis of the uber map. Yeah, which just brilliant on the surface seems so simple 15 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:21,280 Oh, so simple, but the deceptively simple. Yeah, it's it's brilliant in how it addresses a key psychological pain point, right? 16 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:26,680 So so think about like waiting for a taxi. Mm-hmm. What's the worst part about it? 17 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:32,000 They're not knowing they're not knowing how long but uncertain the uncertainty and it's not 18 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:38,200 It's not actually the time itself. It's not the time. It's the not knowing how long is it five minutes? 19 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:39,200 Is it ten minutes? Right? 20 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:42,920 You just don't know and then you start getting anxious and you're like, oh 21 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:49,680 Should I have called earlier? Yeah, exactly. And then you're looking at your watch, right constantly like every minute feels like five 22 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:52,800 And you're wondering are they lost exactly? 23 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:58,800 Are they, you know stuck in traffic and you're looking down the street like is that them? Right? Are they you don't know? 24 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:04,000 Yeah, and it just amplifies that frustration exactly. It really does. The uber map 25 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:09,720 I think is just such a like oh, but it's brilliant stroke of genius because it eliminates that anxiety. Yes by 26 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:16,480 Giving you control and transparency, right? You can see exactly where they are, you know, how long they're gonna take 27 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:20,240 Yep, you can even see them moving right on their little route 28 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:25,960 You can see if they're like stuck at a light or something. Yeah, you can see all of that and it's it's such a it's a clever 29 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:30,720 It's it's it's simple, but it's just so yeah effective 30 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:35,200 It's simple, but effective and it's almost like that weight feels 31 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:38,480 More manageable because we feel like we're in the loop 32 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:42,000 They're not just sitting there wondering power 33 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:46,200 Like okay, I see where they are. Yeah, all good. We have the information 34 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:49,120 Yeah, huge difference and and the funniest thing is yeah 35 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:58,520 The inspiration for this might have come from James Bond really yeah, so Sutherland mentions okay the tracking device 36 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:04,480 Oh that barn uses in Goldfinger. That's funny to follow the villain 37 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:11,800 Might have been the seed for the idea Wow like who would have thought that's amazing that you know a 38 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:14,400 Concept from a movie. Yeah 39 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:19,400 Could actually revolutionize an industry absolutely and that's really what it did 40 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:27,300 Yeah, I mean it's it's really changed every changed how we think about yeah ride sharing and just you know transportation in general 41 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:34,520 And it really highlights how yeah dressing a psychological need can be more impactful 42 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:42,280 Yes, then just focusing on the tech itself technology itself like we often think oh we need to make things faster 43 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:49,480 We need to make things more efficient more features more bells and whistles. Yeah, and sometimes it's really about the psychology 44 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:53,680 Understanding the cycle and this reminds me of another fascinating 45 00:03:54,480 --> 00:04:02,840 Concept that Sutherland talks about okay. It's called the IKEA effect the IKEA effect. I love this one. Yeah, it's basically that we tend to 46 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:07,400 Value things more yes when we put effort into them 47 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:12,720 It's so true like like have you ever like put together? I'm terrible at it a piece of IKEA furniture 48 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:22,280 Yes, I have and you know many times. It's it's not always the easiest process. No, but when you're done. Yeah, you feel this like 49 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:26,320 There is a sense of accomplishment. You're like yeah, I built that yeah 50 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:29,560 I did that you have a little wonky even if it's a little crooked 51 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:35,400 Yeah, you're still like I did that I made this and I'm proud of it exactly and you value it more 52 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:43,400 Yeah, then if you bought it preassembled right absolutely like that's why people love yeah building things DIY projects 53 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:47,680 No, absolutely because there's that sense of ownership. Yeah 54 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:52,360 Yeah, pride accomplishment draw accomplishment and that 55 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:56,360 Boots the value in our minds totally 56 00:04:57,400 --> 00:04:59,080 and 57 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:03,840 Sutherland uses this clever example, okay of pick your own strawberries. Oh 58 00:05:03,840 --> 00:05:09,560 So they're often cheaper cheaper. Yeah, then buying pre-packaged strawberry package 59 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:17,020 But because we've invested the time yeah and effort to pick them ourselves pick them they feel more valuable 60 00:05:17,020 --> 00:05:20,360 Yes, they do it's like it's because you did the work 61 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:25,940 Yes, so you value it more and it's almost like our effort mm-hmm adds this layer of 62 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:33,680 Nificance personal significance. Yes to the item mm-hmm and it becomes more special like it's yours. Yeah, and and think about this 63 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:35,780 Yeah, you mentioned in your notes. Yeah that 64 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:38,440 You enjoy 65 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:45,500 DIY projects I do yeah, do you think the IKEA effect a big part of it? Yeah plays a role in that enjoyment 66 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:52,360 Totally. Yeah, I think there's just that real sense of satisfaction like you said that comes from creating something yourself 67 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:57,560 Yeah, you know envisioning it planning it and then seeing it come to life, right? 68 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:04,040 It's very satisfying and that effort you put in makes the finished product absolutely just feel 69 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:11,000 So much more meaningful. It does have you ever experienced this? Oh, yeah for sure like outside of DIY projects 70 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:16,120 Uh, yeah, like even like anything just organizing something right or you know 71 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:20,800 Just like yeah doing something that you put effort into right and then you stand back and you're like 72 00:06:21,280 --> 00:06:26,680 Yeah, I did that I put that work in uh-huh. Yeah, it's a good feeling and Sutherland argues 73 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:34,200 Yeah, that businesses can tap into this. Okay as well interesting. So like imagine if companies found ways 74 00:06:34,840 --> 00:06:41,560 To involve customers. Okay more in the creation process. I like that right like even something as simple as okay 75 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:46,120 Adding a personal touch to a product. Okay, we're offering customization options. Yeah, great 76 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:52,200 That could actually increase perceived value. Yeah and foster a sense of ownership and make the customer feel 77 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:57,920 Yeah invested in it like I'm part of this. Yeah, this is mine. Yeah, exactly. This isn't just some generic thing 78 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:03,440 Yeah, I helped create that I had a hand in this. Yeah, and that's such a great point because it changes it 79 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:06,840 It could really transform. Yeah a simple transaction 80 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:14,760 Into a more engaging right and meaningful experience. Yeah for the customer for sure now this might sound counterintuitive 81 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:19,200 Okay, but Sutherland argues that sometimes 82 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:22,600 Even negative stories. Okay can actually 83 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:28,280 increase a product's appeal really yeah, how does that work? 84 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:35,040 So it all comes down to managing expectations. Okay, so he uses this example all right of budget airlines 85 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:42,840 Okay, like easy chat. Mm-hmm. So they're very upfront. Okay about what you don't get got it like no fancy meals 86 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:45,360 Right, no free checked bags 87 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:52,040 Right makes sense. So they're basically acknowledging their limitations right from the start. Okay, but by doing so 88 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:58,480 Yeah, they create this narrative of cost saving got so passengers understand right that the low prices 89 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:05,900 They're not hiding anything right come with certain trade-offs and that transparency. Yeah makes the value proposition more 90 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:12,480 Cuz like honestly believable almost yeah, even desirable. Yeah, like they're saying if you know what you're getting 91 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:18,760 We're not pretending to be something. We're not exactly. They're offering you the best possible price. They're upfront 92 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:25,920 And here's how we do it. Yeah, and that honesty. Mm-hmm can actually build trust. I think so with 93 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:32,120 Consumers like authenticity right in a world of overblown promises and marketing hype 94 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:39,760 Admitting limitations. Yeah can actually be refreshing it can and make your offerings stand out. Yeah makes you seem more 95 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:44,920 Yeah, trust worthy. It's kind of like a reverse psychology approach. Yeah by being upfront 96 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:50,080 Yeah about what they don't offer they highlight they actually make their core offerings that they do 97 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:57,160 It's just the low price right even more appealing interesting. Yeah, have you ever noticed yourself being drawn to a product? 98 00:08:57,160 --> 00:08:59,400 Yeah, because of what it doesn't offer 99 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:04,540 Um, I think sometimes yeah, like yeah, like if something's too 100 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:08,200 Yeah feature heavy. I'm like I don't need all that. It's too much 101 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:15,400 Yeah, like I just want something simple that work that's what it's supposed to do right and I think that's less is more 102 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:21,200 Sometimes sometimes less is more. Yeah, and this actually reminds me of another point. Okay, that's Sutherland makes 103 00:09:21,680 --> 00:09:23,680 About products 104 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:32,680 Whose value you only truly grasp. Okay, once you've experienced them. Oh interesting. Yeah, okay, so he talks about his own resistance 105 00:09:32,680 --> 00:09:39,240 Okay to the cooker. Oh the cooker which is that instant boiling water tap the instant hot water? 106 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:44,920 Yeah, which I will admit I was skeptical of you were like who needs that I have a kettle 107 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:47,440 It's just a faster kettle. Yeah, exactly like why? 108 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:52,720 But I have to say he says once you experience it. It's amazing 109 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:58,280 You can't imagine life without it. It's true. You can't and it's a perfect example 110 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:00,400 convenient of 111 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:06,720 What economists call an experience good? Okay, you can read all the descriptions. You can watch the demos 112 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:13,600 Yeah, but the true value. Yeah only becomes apparent when you've used it when you've actually used it 113 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:19,920 I totally agree like you can't explain it this idea of experience goods. Yeah really resonates with me 114 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:26,040 It does because I remember being totally skeptical about product the listener uses. Oh, yeah, but once I tried it 115 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:31,880 Yeah, I was hooked you get it. I was like now you understand. This is amazing. Yeah, and it really highlights 116 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:35,680 Italy the limitations of marketing like sometimes can't capture words 117 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:41,520 It just can't capture the full experience. Yeah, you have to you have to feel it feel it 118 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:47,200 Touch it taste it touch it use it. Yeah to truly understand its value. Absolutely 119 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:52,640 What are some other examples? Oh, there are so many of experience goods. Yeah that come to mind 120 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:59,320 Um like a really comfortable mattress, okay, or a great pair of noise-canceling headphones 121 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:06,600 Okay, like you can try to describe you can't describe the feeling but until you've actually like the feeling of 122 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:09,600 Yeah, and that silence. Yeah, it's like 123 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:17,720 Yeah, exactly. So there's like a really delicious meal. Okay. Yeah, like you can you can describe the ingredients 124 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:22,360 You can describe it, but it's not the same the actual except as tasting it of tasting it 125 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:26,960 Yeah, so it's like this gap. There's a gap between your value what you expect 126 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:34,320 We expect and then the real and the experienced value. We actually feel when we use it for sure and bridging that gap 127 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:38,720 Yeah, that's the challenge is the challenge for marketers for marketers. Yeah, yeah 128 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:41,640 So they need to find creative ways 129 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:43,800 Mm-hmm to give 130 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:50,920 Potential customers a taste of the experience right like free samples, right like free samples trial period 131 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:58,440 Use or testimonials all those things help. Yeah, yeah to reach that gap help them move beyond their skepticism 132 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:03,280 Yeah, and experience the real deal the real value. So it's like giving them a sneak peek 133 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:08,240 Yeah behind the curtain. I like to see what awaits them the magic the magic 134 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:16,320 Yeah, and this actually leads us into another fascinating aspect of consumer behavior, which is how we use okay brands and possessions 135 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:18,320 Yes to signal status 136 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:21,560 Oh, this is interesting and Sutherland calls this signaling 137 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:29,360 Signaling and he argues that sometimes showing you don't need to try okay can be interesting the ultimate status symbol 138 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:33,060 Okay, so it's like this subtle way of saying. Yeah, I'm so 139 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:34,680 confident 140 00:12:34,680 --> 00:12:40,720 Yeah, and successful right that I don't need to rely on flashy brands flashy brands to impress anyone 141 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:41,920 I and it's this 142 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:44,880 Counter signaling okay that he sees driving 143 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:52,320 Interesting the popularity of electric cars. Yeah, so they're not just about such as about saving the planet being environmentally conscious 144 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:59,000 Right, they're also a statement there a statement about values about who you are and a quiet kind of confidence 145 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:03,960 Yeah, like I don't need I'm not trying to keep up with the joke gas guzzler 146 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:12,200 Yeah, you know a huge try to impress you SUV. Yeah to show how wealthy I am right like I'm comfortable with who I am 147 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:18,960 Yeah, and I'm making a statement. It's a different kind of status of the world. Yeah, and my place in it 148 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:23,880 I like that. Yeah, and it's like you're ahead of the curve. Yeah, you're an early adopter 149 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:31,440 Yeah making conscious choices. You're setting your own standards. Yeah, and Sutherland points to Tesla's use of vegan leather 150 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:36,560 Oh, yeah for their seats interesting as a prime example of this counter signaling 151 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:39,320 So it's a clever 152 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:45,440 Reframing oh, right that elevates because on the surface you could be like oh, that's cheap. It's fake leather 153 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:51,740 Yeah, it's not real leather right, but they've positioned it as they've made a positive and even aspirational choice 154 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:58,920 It's better for the environment. Yeah, it's you know cruelty free all those things. It's amazing 155 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:06,800 Yeah, how the perception of value can be so fluid. Yeah influenced by all fees beyond the product itself 156 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:13,180 So our choices are often driven by it's not just about this complex 157 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:19,220 Interplay the product of college special keys. Yeah personal values like it's fascinating really fascinating 158 00:14:19,220 --> 00:14:26,560 Yeah, and it makes you wonder. Yeah, what unconscious biases are we not even aware shaping our decisions as consumers? 159 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:32,640 Yeah, exactly and that leads us into another important aspect of marketing which is personalization 160 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:40,120 So we all know yeah, it can be an effective tool, but Sutherland 161 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:42,440 emphasizes 162 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:44,680 Yeah, the importance of doing it 163 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:53,320 subtly right and thoughtfully yeah, it's about enhancing the experience not being creepy not feeling creepy 164 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:59,440 Yeah, not being invasive or invasive. Yeah, so he actually shares. Yeah negative example. Okay of a CEO 165 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:05,880 Okay, who emailed him personally right after he joined a gym and it felt I hate that 166 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:11,280 intrusive and presumptuous leave me alone like a violation of his privacy 167 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:16,800 Yeah, like he's just a just a number number in their system. I don't want to be a number like oh 168 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:23,640 We got him and he contrast that okay with a positive example. Okay, where a hotel 169 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:27,000 Okay, left a chocolate Taj Mahal 170 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:30,600 Oh, it's white with his company logo on it. Yeah room 171 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:35,440 And it was a small gesture. Yeah, but it made him feel valued 172 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:42,680 It makes you feel seen and appreciated. Yeah, it's like the difference between like you're a person being bombarded 173 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:45,160 Not just a generic. Yeah 174 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:53,040 Marketing messages. Yeah, and receiving a thoughtful gift. Yeah one feels intrusive. Yeah, the other feels personal 175 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:59,480 It's the thought genuine as I count and personalization done right. Mm-hmm is about thoughtfulness 176 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:06,920 Offfulness and creating genuine delight. Yeah, not just using data showing off to show off what you know 177 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:11,040 Yeah, what you know about your customers, right? It's about using that data 178 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:16,640 Yeah to create and make a connection a positive emotional connection. Yeah a feeling of being seen 179 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:22,480 Yeah, and understood for sure and those subtle touches. Yeah can really 180 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:28,240 They can go along what make all the difference. Yeah and building brand loyalty and creating a lasting impression 181 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:31,760 Absolutely, so it's about going beyond. Yeah 182 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:39,640 Transaction on the transactional in creating a relationship. Yeah, the meaningful relationship a real relationship. Yeah one that's built on trust 183 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:46,240 Trust understanding shared values and speaking of shared values. Yeah, you know, Sutherland's insights 184 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:48,880 really make you think 185 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:50,880 about the power of marketing 186 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:58,760 To not only sell products, right, but also to influence behavior. Yeah in positive ways like to do good 187 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:04,520 Yeah, yeah, what if we what if we can use these use this knowledge? Yeah, these insights of psychology 188 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:10,000 Yeah, to actually to make a difference encourage healthier habits. Absolutely promote sustainability 189 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:14,400 Encourage people to make the world a better place and make more ethical decisions 190 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:21,040 Like marketing could be this force for good. Yeah helping us love that I'd create a better world 191 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:26,880 Yeah by tapping into I think that's what we should all be striving for the power. Yeah of human psychology 192 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:32,560 Absolutely and understanding positive impact how we make decisions. I think that's a great place to yeah leave it for now 193 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:38,160 All right, we've covered a lot of ground we have in this first part. Yeah our deep dive 194 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:41,800 But there's more to come. Oh, yeah, so stay tuned 195 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:48,440 We'll be back for part two with more insights where we delve even deeper from Rory 196 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:55,760 Sutherland into the fascinating world and alkanin of marketing. Yeah and consumer behavior see you soon 197 00:17:56,440 --> 00:18:00,720 Yeah, it really is. It's like we're all alchemists in a way 198 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:07,120 That's a good way to put it trying to transform the yeah base desires into something right more meaningful 199 00:18:07,120 --> 00:18:14,600 In the some of their parts and speaking of alchemy. Yeah, Sutherland's book is just full of these full of them brilliant insights 200 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:19,960 Yeah into the psychology of value it really is and one of the things he emphasizes. Okay, is 201 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:26,480 That we often value things more. Yeah when they have a story attached to the story a story 202 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:33,680 Okay, so think about like a like coffin family heirloom. Yeah, it's not just an object. It's a tangible 203 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:39,480 Connection it has meaning to your history your family history your heritage. Yeah, like a personal connection 204 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:47,560 I have this old watch that belonged to my grandfather. Oh cool. Yeah, it's not particularly valuable in like monetary monetary terms 205 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:50,480 Yeah, but it means the world to me 206 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:54,200 Because of its story of course, right? 207 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:58,440 It's sentimental value and that story. Yeah adds a layer of 208 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:05,440 Of perceived value right that goes beyond it transcends object itself the object itself becomes a symbol 209 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:12,600 I can assemble of family traditional connection. It's like that's why people love and choose the object 210 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:15,140 Yeah with this with a story emotional 211 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:22,880 Significance history can't put a price tag on exactly and this idea of storytelling can be incredibly powerful and marketing 212 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:25,480 Oh first as well. Yeah, so think about brands 213 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:33,800 Okay that have a strong narrative. Mm-hmm. They're not just selling products, right? They're selling a story a 214 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:42,120 Lifestyle a lifestyle a set of values a set of values. Yeah that people can connect with that resonate with those brands 215 00:19:42,120 --> 00:19:44,120 Yeah, focus on 216 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:46,640 Sustainability and ethical sourcing 217 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:50,480 Patagonia. Yeah, they're tapping into this. Yeah growing 218 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:53,400 consumer desire 219 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:55,400 To make conscious 220 00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:58,120 Choices 221 00:19:58,120 --> 00:20:03,360 Absolutely and be a part of something to feel good about their purchases and themselves. Yeah, right? 222 00:20:03,360 --> 00:20:10,280 It's not just about the product. They're not just selling a product. It's about selling what it stands for a better future 223 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:14,160 Yeah, and that narrative and people are willing to pay more for that. It can be incredibly 224 00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:21,360 Yeah, they are compelling. They are like they're inviting customers to join them join them on a mission on a journey 225 00:20:21,360 --> 00:20:27,840 Yeah to be part of a movement a movement and that and that's a powerful thing sense of shared purpose 226 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:33,920 Yeah, can be incredibly for sure. It's like a community. This reminds me of something you mentioned earlier 227 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:36,280 You know you're interested in DIY 228 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:38,520 projects 229 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:45,280 Do you think there's a connection? I think so between that and the stories because you're creating the story 230 00:20:45,360 --> 00:20:48,440 We attached to when you do something yourself objects 231 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:53,640 Yeah, you're putting your own because when you create something yourself effort into your investing 232 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:57,760 Yeah, not just time and effort. Yeah blood sweat into your sometimes 233 00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:02,560 But also a part of yourself into a little piece of you goes into it. It becomes a reflection 234 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:09,240 Yeah of your creativity your own personal touch your personality. Yeah skills ingenuity. It's like you're writing your own story 235 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:17,320 Absolutely object. I agree and that personal connection. Yeah makes it all the more more special valuable to you 236 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:24,040 Absolutely, and it makes me think about yeah, how companies. How can they could encourage? 237 00:21:24,360 --> 00:21:30,640 That sense of personal connection personal connection even with even when mass produced products 238 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:33,600 That's produced things like maybe offering customization options 239 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:38,680 Yeah, or finding ways to involve customers in the design process in the design process 240 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:43,520 Yeah, so they feel like co-creation. They're a part of that's a great idea 241 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:49,280 Creating it like that and it's all about it's all about making that connection finding these subtle ways 242 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:55,080 Yeah to tap into to tap into those like a logical five value 243 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:59,680 Yeah, and create experiences that resonate with people deeper level on a deeper level 244 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:04,280 Yeah, and I think it's not just about as we wrap up. Yeah this deep dive 245 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:12,040 Mm-hmm into the world of marketing and consumer behavior. Okay, it's clear that there's a real art to it 246 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:17,520 There is it's not just about it's not just about pushing product pushing products. It's about understanding 247 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:23,560 It's about understanding people and what makes them tick. It's about seeing the world. Yeah through their eyes 248 00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:31,080 Understanding their motivations and finding ways to connect with them on an emotional level on an emotional level. Yeah 249 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:37,560 It's about creating experiences that are not just transactional transactional. Yeah, but 250 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:40,760 transformative transformative. Yes, and ultimately 251 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:47,440 Yeah, it's about using this knowledge to make the world to create a better place a better world 252 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:50,400 Yeah, one where marketing is a force. I 253 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:56,160 Love that idea for good. Yeah, not just not just for profit for profit, right? Yeah 254 00:22:56,160 --> 00:23:02,200 It's really been fascinating so many great takeaways exploring these ideas from alchemy with you 255 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:09,700 Rory Sutherland's alchemy really it challenges you it does like differently. It challenges our assumptions about you know 256 00:23:09,700 --> 00:23:17,880 Yeah, what drives value and how we can use those insights? Yeah to create, you know, good more meaningful 257 00:23:18,020 --> 00:23:23,460 Experiences, yeah, and not just not just for ourselves marketing but for the world for everyone 258 00:23:24,100 --> 00:23:27,780 He really has a gift. I think he does for making us question 259 00:23:27,780 --> 00:23:32,700 He's a provocateur the status quo and reframe our thinking 260 00:23:32,700 --> 00:23:40,940 Mm-hmm from the subtle psychology. Yeah of the uber map to the art of negative storytelling 261 00:23:41,260 --> 00:23:46,020 negative storytelling the transformative power the experience goods of experience goods 262 00:23:46,140 --> 00:23:51,540 It's clear that it's so much more than just you know, we're putting up a billboard then meets the eye 263 00:23:51,580 --> 00:23:58,580 Yeah, it's like he's given us this a secret decoder ring secret decoder ring. I like that to unlock 264 00:23:58,580 --> 00:24:04,340 Yeah, the hidden language of consumer behavior the hidden language and it's there 265 00:24:04,420 --> 00:24:08,440 It's fascinating if you know how to look for it and the implications 266 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:16,540 I think go far beyond just oh absolute selling products. Yeah, you know his ideas can be applied to like anything 267 00:24:16,700 --> 00:24:19,620 everything from yeah designing better services to 268 00:24:20,220 --> 00:24:27,900 Promoting relationship positive social change social change. Yeah, so like we're saying yeah marketing could be a force for good 269 00:24:27,900 --> 00:24:35,260 I think what are the key takeaways? I think so too from this deep dive. Yeah, is that we're all alchemists 270 00:24:35,260 --> 00:24:40,260 We all have the power in a way to be alchemists in our own lives 271 00:24:40,260 --> 00:24:46,140 We can use this knowledge we can use this knowledge to make a difference to make more conscious choices 272 00:24:46,140 --> 00:24:53,700 Yeah design more engaging experiences. Yeah, and even to to shape the world influence the world 273 00:24:53,740 --> 00:24:57,060 Yeah around us for the better. I love that 274 00:24:57,060 --> 00:25:01,420 It's empowering isn't it it is empowering to realize that I just we're not just 275 00:25:02,220 --> 00:25:06,040 Passive risk against of marketing messages, right? We're active 276 00:25:06,420 --> 00:25:12,780 Participants we have agents in shaping the value we perceive. Yeah, we have a choice and the choices we make 277 00:25:13,780 --> 00:25:22,220 You're not just as we kind of wrap up. Yeah this deep dive this deep dive. I'm curious. Yeah, what's resonating with you? 278 00:25:22,220 --> 00:25:28,380 Um the most from our exploration. I think the thing of Roy Sutherland's alchemy 279 00:25:28,380 --> 00:25:32,180 I keep coming back to you is that what's the one we have to 280 00:25:32,700 --> 00:25:38,260 Uh-huh mom that you'll carry with you. Yeah and consider those wine for was deeper 281 00:25:39,260 --> 00:25:45,340 Psychological forces. Yeah that are at play. Yeah, you know because they're there whether we acknowledge them or not 282 00:25:45,340 --> 00:25:49,100 They are right and like you were saying value is often subjective 283 00:25:49,100 --> 00:25:54,740 Yes, and we can influence and we can actually influence perceptions perceptions through storytelling 284 00:25:55,100 --> 00:26:00,580 Framing even a little bit of magic a touch of magic. It's beautiful. I love that. It's like finding 285 00:26:00,660 --> 00:26:06,540 It's about poetry finding the poetry in the everyday in the everyday and using it to create 286 00:26:07,020 --> 00:26:13,900 Experiences that are not just functional functional the meaningful but truly meaningful. Yeah, that's a great way 287 00:26:13,900 --> 00:26:20,340 And I think as we move forward so as we move forward, let's challenge ourselves all challenge ourselves go apply these to apply these 288 00:26:20,620 --> 00:26:27,420 Insights in our own lives to be more conscious conscious consumers. Yeah more creative marketers 289 00:26:28,140 --> 00:26:35,700 More just more thoughtful in general thoughtful architects. Yeah of the world around the world around us. Yeah, let's embrace the alchemy 290 00:26:35,700 --> 00:26:40,860 Let's do it the alchemy of possibility and see where it leads us where it leads us 291 00:26:41,860 --> 00:26:43,460 this 292 00:26:43,460 --> 00:26:45,460 Has been an incredible 293 00:26:45,460 --> 00:27:13,140 It's been fun journey. Yeah, and I can't wait to see what we discover next awesome