Hey everyone and welcome to the deep dive.
Today we're gonna be talking all about Julian Metcalf.
Oh yeah.
Founder of Pret, a manger and Itzu and.
I love Itzu.
Oh yeah.
It's my go-to like lunch spot.
I love their sushi and.
And Sametariaki is pretty amazing.
Yeah.
Yeah, for sure.
We found this really fascinating interview with him.
Oh cool.
It's a YouTube interview.
It's from the diary of a CEO podcast.
Have you heard of that one?
Yeah, I've seen it floating around.
Yeah, it's cool.
And we're gonna just try to unpack.
I think he's got some really interesting perspectives
on building businesses.
Right.
You know, not one, but $2 billion food brand.
So.
That's impressive.
Yeah, for sure.
So I think there's a lot we can learn from him.
Absolutely.
So one of the things that's really striking
about this interview is just how transparent he is.
Yeah.
Like right off the bat,
he talks about like some really, really difficult things.
Like he talks about losing his mother to suicide.
Wow.
When he was only seven years old.
Yeah, he doesn't hold back.
He doesn't hold back at all.
Yeah.
And you can really feel like the impact
that that had on him.
Right.
He talks about the loneliness.
Yeah.
You know, the difficult relationship he had
with his father.
Right.
He sent off to boarding school.
Oh wow.
Constantly butting heads with authority figures.
And you really get this sense of him being
kind of an outsider.
Yeah, you can see how all of those experiences
could lead someone to be like,
well screw it, I'm gonna do my own thing.
Yeah, exactly.
Like create your own path.
Yeah.
Create your own world where the rules make sense to you.
Exactly.
And that's definitely true for him.
I mean, he even admits that when he started Pratt,
he had no idea what he was doing.
All right.
In terms of the food industry.
Wow, that's interesting.
He was just kind of like, you know.
That's kind of amazing.
Figure it out as he went along.
That's so cool.
Cause I feel like a lot of times that lack of experience
can actually be an advantage.
Right.
Because you're not bogged down
by the traditional way of doing things.
Exactly, you're not bound by convention.
You can kind of.
You're like, oh, I didn't know you couldn't do that.
Exactly.
Like who says I can't do it this way?
Yeah.
Exactly.
And that kind of beginner's mind
can be incredibly powerful.
Yeah.
And I think that's definitely true for him.
Yeah, it makes me think about all the times
I've gotten stuck in analysis paralysis, you know.
Overthinking things.
When sometimes you just gotta dive in
and figure it out as you go.
Totally.
And he really embodies that.
And I think that's one of the things
that's so fascinating about him.
Yeah, I like that.
And so another thing that really jumps out
from this interview is his really strong belief
in transparency.
Mm-hmm.
Like both with his team and his customers.
Okay.
He even mentions like sharing the financials
of his podcasting business with his team.
Really?
Wow.
Yeah.
And I was like, how many bosses would do that?
Seriously, like that's almost unheard of.
Yeah, it's pretty radical.
And it really speaks to this deep seated belief
that, you know, open communication and honesty
build trust.
Mm-hmm.
And it's so essential for any successful organization.
Sure.
And you know what makes me think about,
how important is transparency to you in your workplace?
That's a good question.
Yeah.
Have you ever experienced a really transparent work culture?
I think I have.
Yeah.
And it really does make a difference.
Yeah, for sure.
It just creates a different kind of environment.
Totally.
Okay, so let's talk about what he calls
like the specialness of Pret, a manger.
Okay.
And so it's not just about the food.
It's about creating a unique experience,
like a feeling that goes beyond just the product itself.
Right, it's the vibe.
It's like the whole package.
Yeah, exactly.
And so he talks about how he was really focused
on these seemingly small, often unplanned elements.
Okay.
That really make a business stand out.
I like that.
So like, for example, like the freshness of their food.
Yeah.
Everything was made fresh daily,
and any unsold items were donated to homeless shelters.
That's awesome.
This is amazing.
And then there's this thing called the joy of Pret button.
What?
Have you heard of this?
I don't know.
Okay, so basically it empowered employees
to give away free products at their discretion.
Wow.
Yeah.
That's so cool.
So think about the impact of that.
Like not just on the customer, you know.
Right.
Who's getting a free coffee or pastry.
Right, like brightening someone's day.
But on the employee who gets to make someone's day.
Yeah, exactly.
Right, so he's creating these unexpected moments of delight.
I love that.
And it's pure genius.
And it's funny because he actually talks about
how he had to implement a system.
Oh really?
To track which managers weren't giving away enough freebies.
What?
Yeah, he's like,
he's like, I would see managers with zero clicks
on the joy of Pret button.
And he's like, look, I'm not having this.
Wow, he's serious about the specialness thing.
He's very serious about it.
That's awesome.
So it shows you just how important this concept was to him.
I love it.
Yeah, and it goes beyond just giving away free stuff.
Right.
And he's creating this culture of generosity
and genuine human connection.
Yeah.
And that's something that customers can sense
and appreciate.
And then he also mentions how he had employees
vote on new hires.
What?
Literally deciding who joins their teams.
Oh.
Yeah, he called it like voting on a napkin.
On a napkin.
Yeah, at four o'clock.
That's amazing.
Which I love because it reinforces the sense
of shared responsibility.
Yeah, like we're all in this together.
We're all in this together.
We're all part of building this culture.
I love that so much.
And so yeah, he didn't like very ambitious managers,
he says.
Oh, really?
Why?
He said that they're too focused on short-term gains
and their own advancement.
Okay.
Which can be detrimental to the long-term vision
of the company.
I see.
So he's really looking for people who are passionate
about the product, the customers, and the team.
And not just climbing the corporate ladder.
Right.
And this goes back to his emphasis
on the long-term perspective, right?
Yeah.
And he says that he likes to think 30 years out.
Wow.
Which I bet drives some people crazy.
I bet.
But it's clear that he's playing the long game, right?
Yeah.
He's building something sustainable and meaningful
rather than just chasing those quick wins.
That's a really good point.
And I think you can see that
in a lot of press practices, right?
Oh yeah.
From that joy of prep button
to the focus on fresh, high-quality ingredients.
For sure.
It's not about maximizing profits this quarter.
Exactly.
It's about building something
that people trust and love.
Totally.
And speaking of trusting his gut.
Yeah.
He openly admits that he disregarded
traditional business metrics and consultants.
Really?
Yeah.
He's like, I just relied on my intuition
and my long-term vision.
Hmm.
That's interesting.
Which is a pretty bold move when you think about it.
Yeah.
It's definitely not the typical approach.
Not the typical approach at all.
Yeah.
But it seems like it worked out for him.
Yeah.
And it raises an important question.
What's that?
When you think of a time when a company's specialness,
like something beyond just the product itself.
Yeah.
Made you a loyal customer.
Hmm.
What was it about that experience
that made you wanna come back for more?
That's a good question.
I'm gonna have to think about that one.
Yeah.
I think we should take a break and come back to that one
because I have a feeling it's gonna stark a lot of thoughts.
Yeah, I think so too.
All right, let's take a break.
Sounds good.
You know, it's funny how his aversion
to those super ambitious managers
actually ties back to his own experiences.
Oh yeah.
You know, in the culture he wanted to create at Pret.
Right.
He saw firsthand how that kind of ambition,
that relentless pursuit of, you know, personal gain.
Yeah.
Can really damage a company.
Yeah.
It sucks the soul out of it.
Totally.
It becomes all about the bottom line.
Exactly.
And not about the people.
Right.
And so it's like he wanted to build a business
that was driven by passion
and a genuine desire to serve the customer.
Not just by profits and ego.
Yeah.
And you can see that reflected in so many of his decisions.
Oh yeah.
Like even the employee hiring process
we were talking about.
Right.
Giving the employees the power to choose
who joins their team.
Yeah.
It's pretty radical when you think about it.
It is.
It's like imagine being a candidate
and having to win over.
A whole team.
The whole team.
Yeah.
It's like you can't just charm your way through
a few interviews.
Right.
You just have to genuinely connect with the people
you're going to be working alongside.
Yeah.
It's a totally different approach.
Yeah.
And I bet it weeded out a lot of those people
who were just in it for themselves.
Yeah.
Just trying to climb the ladder.
Exactly.
So now while Pratt was a massive success.
Yeah.
Metcalf eventually sold his stake in the company.
Oh really?
Yeah.
He talks about how he felt like he had no choice.
That the new owners weren't interested in his vision.
Oh wow.
You kind of hear the disappointment in his voice.
Yeah.
It's like he had to let go of a part of himself.
It's got to be tough.
You know when you pour your heart and soul into something.
Yeah.
And then.
You have to walk away.
Yeah.
But you know what I think it's also a testament
to his entrepreneurial spirit.
Oh yeah.
For sure.
Like he didn't just sit back and you know wallow.
Yeah.
He took that experience.
Those lessons learned and he channeled them
into his next venture.
It's Sue.
Exactly.
So with it's Sue he's taking on an even bigger challenge.
Providing affordable nutritious food on a global scale.
Wow.
It's like he's on a mission to change the way
we think about fast food.
I love that because healthy food should be accessible
to everyone.
Exactly.
It shouldn't just be you know for the wealthy.
Exactly.
And he really sees it Sue as this solution.
Yeah.
To the growing health concerns around obesity
and unhealthy eating habits.
Right.
And it's not just about offering healthier options.
Right.
It's about making them affordable.
Yeah.
And convenient.
Exactly.
Because let's face it healthy food can be expensive.
It can be.
Yeah.
And so that's where I think his brilliance shines through.
Yeah.
It's like he's taking everything he learned from Prett.
Right.
That focus on quality ingredients and customer experience.
And he's applying it to a new market.
Yeah.
With a really powerful social mission.
I love that.
And it's like he's saying look you don't have to sacrifice
taste or convenience to eat well.
Right.
And you don't have to break the bank.
Yeah.
It's a game changer.
Yeah it really is.
Especially with you know the growing interest in healthy
eating and sustainability.
Right.
It really makes you wonder how is the future of fast food
gonna evolve.
Yeah.
Will we see more companies following in itsos footsteps.
Yeah.
Are we gonna see this kind of like shift towards more you
know health conscious and sustainable options.
Yeah.
It's an interesting question.
Yeah it is.
So beyond the business strategies.
Yeah.
This interview gets really personal.
Oh really.
Yeah Metcalfe opens up about some really deep seated
struggles.
Particularly around feeling unlovable.
Wow.
And his difficulty with expressing affection.
That's gotta be tough.
Yeah and he's so raw and honest about it.
Yeah.
You know he traces it back to his childhood.
The lack of affection from his parents.
He even admits that he never called the mom and dad
growing up.
Which is just heartbreaking.
Yeah.
You know.
Yeah.
And how these early experiences can shape our emotional
patterns.
And our relationships later in life.
Absolutely.
And he's really candid about the impact that his
workaholic tendencies.
Yeah.
Have had on his personal life.
Right.
You know he acknowledges that he hasn't always been there
for the people he loves.
Mm hmm.
And that his dedication to building his businesses came
at a cost.
Yeah.
It's a struggle a lot of driven people face.
Oh yeah.
And the balance between pursuing your ambitions.
Right.
And nurturing your relationship.
Totally.
And it's a reminder that success in one area of life.
Yeah.
Doesn't automatically translate to fulfillment in others.
Right.
You can't just pour all your energy into one thing and
expect everything else to just fall into place.
Exactly.
It's about finding that balance.
Yeah.
Which is something that you know he admits he's still
working on.
Yeah.
And I think that's what's so powerful about his willingness
to be so open.
Mm hmm.
About his struggles.
It makes him relatable.
You know even though he's achieved so much.
Right.
He's still human.
He still has flaws and insecurities.
Yeah.
And I think that makes his insights even more impactful.
For sure.
Because it's a reminder that even the most successful
people.
Right.
You know.
They're on a journey too.
They're on a journey.
It's not like they have it all figured out.
Right.
They're a work in progress just like the rest of us.
Exactly.
And speaking of self discovery.
Yeah.
There's one more incredible twist in Metcalfe's story.
Oh really?
What's that?
So he reveals that in his mid 40s.
Okay.
He found out he had a daughter he never knew about.
Wow.
Talk about a life altering revelation.
Yeah.
That's huge.
And so he describes the moment he met his daughter
for the first time.
Mm hmm.
He was visiting her at university.
Wow.
And just this overwhelming desire to connect with her
and support her.
Oh that's sweet.
I know you could just imagine the range of emotions.
Yeah.
He must have been going through.
For sure.
He was a testament to his character.
That he embraced this situation.
Yeah.
With the same kind of determination and compassion
that he brings to his business.
It's amazing how life can throw you these curve balls.
Totally.
And you just have to kind of roll with it.
Yeah.
And what's even more amazing is that they now work together
at Itzu.
Really?
Yeah.
She's a member of the board.
Wow.
And she plays a key role in the company.
That's incredible.
It's a beautiful example of how even out of unexpected
circumstances.
Right.
Strong bonds can be forged.
And you can hear the pride in his voice
when he talks about his daughter.
Yeah.
And it just adds another layer to his story.
Highlighting the importance of family and connection.
Even amidst the demands of a high powered career.
Yeah.
It's a good reminder that life is full of surprises.
Totally.
And sometimes the greatest gifts come
in the most unexpected packages.
You know it's really amazing to see how he's navigated
these personal challenges.
Yeah.
With such grace and resilience.
He seems like a really strong person.
He does.
And it really adds like another dimension
to his insights on leadership and building
a purpose driven business.
Totally.
It's like all these different pieces of his life.
Childhood, his struggles, his entrepreneurial journey.
Yeah.
They all come together to create
this really inspiring story.
It's a really rich tapestry.
Is?
So as we wrap up our deep dive into the world of Julie
and Metcalfe.
Yeah.
What are some of the key takeaways?
OK.
Well I think first and foremost he's
a testament to the power of unconventional thinking.
Yeah.
He didn't follow the rules.
Right.
And that's exactly what allowed him to create something truly
unique and successful.
Yeah.
He really embraced that beginner's mind.
He did.
And wasn't afraid to experiment to take risks.
And I think that's something we can all learn from.
Totally.
Whether we're starting a business or just
trying to break out of our comfort zones.
Or just approaching any problem in a new way.
Exactly.
Think outside the box.
Exactly.
He's also a champion of transparency.
And building a company culture that puts people first.
Yeah.
He really understood that happy employees lead
to happy customers.
Absolutely.
And ultimately a more successful business.
It's a win-win.
Yeah.
It is.
And that's something we can all take to heart.
For sure.
Even if we're not running a billion dollar company.
Right.
It's about building trust and genuine connection.
Yeah.
In any area of our lives.
Exactly.
Metcalfe's story also highlights
the importance of finding your own specialness.
Yeah.
That's a good one.
What makes you stand out.
Yeah.
What makes you you.
Yeah.
It's not about copying someone else's formula for success.
It's about embracing what makes you unique.
And using it to your advantage.
Exactly.
His journey also reminds us that success is a process.
It's not a destination.
Yeah.
It's not like you just arrive.
Right.
There are going to be challenges and setbacks along the way.
For sure.
But it's how we navigate those challenges
and how we keep pushing forward.
Yeah.
It's all about resilience.
It really is.
And that's something that Metcalfe clearly has in spades.
He does.
And even when we reach the top, there's always room for growth.
Absolutely.
Self-discovery and finding that balance.
Right.
It's a continuous journey.
It is.
And I think his willingness to be so open about his own struggles.
Yeah.
Makes him all the more inspiring.
He's like, look, I am not perfect.
Yeah.
I've made mistakes.
I'm still learning.
I'm still learning and growing.
And I think that's a really powerful message.
It is.
Because it reminds us that we're all in this together.
And it's OK to be vulnerable and to keep
striving for something more.
So as we leave you with this final thought,
we encourage you to reflect on what
resonated with you most from this deep dive.
What are you going to take away from this?
Yeah.
What's one area of your life where you can embrace
a little more of that Metcalfe magic?
Yeah.
A little more unconventional thinking, a dash of transparency.
A commitment to finding your own specialness.
Remember, even small steps can lead to big changes.
And it's all about playing the long game.
Building something meaningful.
And never stopping believing in the power
of your own unique vision.
Beautifully said.
Thanks for joining us on this fascinating journey
into the mind of Julian Metcalfe.
It's been a pleasure.
We hope you enjoyed this deep dive.
We'll see you next time.
Until next time, keep diving deep.