WEBVTT 00:00:01.819 --> 00:00:04.660 Welcome to The Educational Dilemma. I'm your 00:00:04.660 --> 00:00:06.660 host, Emma Goldsmith, Head of the Dragon School 00:00:06.660 --> 00:00:10.400 in Oxford. Thank you for listening. In this edition 00:00:10.400 --> 00:00:13.199 of The Educational Dilemma... Something slightly 00:00:13.199 --> 00:00:16.219 different. This is for parents who might be considering 00:00:16.219 --> 00:00:18.800 having year seven and eight in a prep school 00:00:18.800 --> 00:00:21.120 and then transitioning to a senior independent 00:00:21.120 --> 00:00:24.739 school, potentially at 13. We have a senior school 00:00:24.739 --> 00:00:27.899 head. We have an educational consultant and the 00:00:27.899 --> 00:00:29.699 head of year seven and eight at the Dragon School 00:00:29.699 --> 00:00:33.700 in Oxford. Well, thank you all for being here 00:00:33.700 --> 00:00:36.280 to be part of this conversation. So it's probably 00:00:36.280 --> 00:00:38.299 easiest if everyone introduced themselves. So 00:00:38.299 --> 00:00:41.229 Alistair. My name's Alistair Churnside. I'm the 00:00:41.229 --> 00:00:43.049 warden, the head teacher of St Edward's School 00:00:43.049 --> 00:00:46.329 in Oxford. Before I worked at St Edward's, Teddy's, 00:00:46.390 --> 00:00:48.250 as we're also known, I was the deputy headmaster 00:00:48.250 --> 00:00:50.070 of Harrow, where I worked for five years. And 00:00:50.070 --> 00:00:52.310 before that, I worked at Eton for 12 years. And 00:00:52.310 --> 00:00:54.649 right at the start of my career, I was a fund 00:00:54.649 --> 00:00:57.250 manager in the City of London. I'm an old dragon. 00:00:57.390 --> 00:00:59.850 So I was in this house, this very building, probably 00:00:59.850 --> 00:01:02.049 in this very room about 40 years ago. I was a 00:01:02.049 --> 00:01:05.750 regular visitor under previous management. And 00:01:05.750 --> 00:01:08.069 I should also say that I was a dragon parent 00:01:08.069 --> 00:01:10.480 twice. over. So Mary and Lizzie, our daughters, 00:01:10.519 --> 00:01:14.099 they're in teddies with us. Mary's taking her 00:01:14.099 --> 00:01:16.140 GCSEs, Lizzie's in year nine. Both had a really 00:01:16.140 --> 00:01:18.680 great time previously at the Dragon. Amazing. 00:01:18.780 --> 00:01:21.159 Thank you. And Mary -Kate? So I'm Mary -Kate 00:01:21.159 --> 00:01:23.900 Edwards, and my main role is as head of upper 00:01:23.900 --> 00:01:27.019 school, where I support the year seven and eight 00:01:27.019 --> 00:01:30.519 children to navigate that journey between the 00:01:30.519 --> 00:01:35.640 age of 11 to 13. I also work systemically around 00:01:35.640 --> 00:01:39.599 mental health, and I'm a deputy. designated safeguarding 00:01:39.599 --> 00:01:42.359 lead so lots of involvement in both the social 00:01:42.359 --> 00:01:44.379 emotional side of children's journey but also 00:01:44.379 --> 00:01:47.420 the academic I've also got three children who've 00:01:47.420 --> 00:01:50.000 various stages of their school career I love 00:01:50.000 --> 00:01:51.540 the fact we all leave the children to the end 00:01:51.540 --> 00:01:54.299 and we've got all of these children and Camilla 00:01:54.620 --> 00:01:57.439 I'm Camilla Smiley. I'm an independent education 00:01:57.439 --> 00:02:00.840 consultant. I help families to map out their 00:02:00.840 --> 00:02:02.920 children's school pathways and work out where 00:02:02.920 --> 00:02:05.019 they're going to go to school, when they're going 00:02:05.019 --> 00:02:08.280 to move. Lots of different problem solving situations 00:02:08.280 --> 00:02:13.099 within different family dynamics. I also go into 00:02:13.099 --> 00:02:15.360 schools to write about them, review them. I meet 00:02:15.360 --> 00:02:17.539 a lot of heads. I talk to a lot of different 00:02:17.539 --> 00:02:20.900 people throughout the landscape. And so hopefully 00:02:20.900 --> 00:02:26.110 can bring a... overview of big movements within 00:02:26.110 --> 00:02:29.629 it. And I'm also a parent and have three children 00:02:29.629 --> 00:02:31.689 at various different stages, a couple of current 00:02:31.689 --> 00:02:35.199 dragons and one potential future dragon. Amazing. 00:02:35.199 --> 00:02:37.219 Thank you. And I'm obviously Emma Goldsmith, 00:02:37.379 --> 00:02:39.860 head of the Dragon, my second prep school. But 00:02:39.860 --> 00:02:43.800 before that, I was in the senior sector. So Oakham 00:02:43.800 --> 00:02:46.939 School, then Rugby, then Bloxham. And I'm also 00:02:46.939 --> 00:02:50.539 currently a governor of Wellington College and 00:02:50.539 --> 00:02:53.879 Gordonstoun, which both have prep schools attached 00:02:53.879 --> 00:02:55.479 to them. So it's quite interesting looking at 00:02:55.479 --> 00:02:57.460 it from a governance point of view as well. I 00:02:57.460 --> 00:02:59.780 have four children, all had very different educational 00:02:59.780 --> 00:03:02.300 journeys and moved at different times because 00:03:02.300 --> 00:03:05.840 of their individual needs. hopefully have some 00:03:05.840 --> 00:03:08.979 insights there as well. So just to explain for 00:03:08.979 --> 00:03:11.360 people who might be listening about why there 00:03:11.360 --> 00:03:15.719 is even a 13 plus gateway, I guess, into these 00:03:15.719 --> 00:03:18.280 schools could be quite helpful. And why do some 00:03:18.280 --> 00:03:21.479 girls actually start at 11? And I think from 00:03:21.479 --> 00:03:24.879 my very, very scant research, it really is because 00:03:24.879 --> 00:03:27.819 the prep school system was built for boys to 00:03:27.819 --> 00:03:30.599 start. boarding at 13 and going off into the 00:03:30.599 --> 00:03:32.719 major public schools. The girls obviously went 00:03:32.719 --> 00:03:36.560 traditionally at the state sector and therefore 00:03:36.560 --> 00:03:40.180 their schools tend to start at year seven. And 00:03:40.180 --> 00:03:42.740 it might be interesting just to start our conversation 00:03:42.740 --> 00:03:46.340 about if we look at the kind of the academic 00:03:46.340 --> 00:03:49.120 focus of year seven and eight, and it might be 00:03:49.120 --> 00:03:50.699 interesting actually, Camilla, just to bring 00:03:50.699 --> 00:03:53.819 you to this, are people... Do people think of 00:03:53.819 --> 00:03:57.180 year seven as a key moment in a child's education 00:03:57.180 --> 00:03:59.099 or is it actually we're just going to go anywhere 00:03:59.099 --> 00:04:00.539 and they'll be fine because it's just year seven 00:04:00.539 --> 00:04:02.240 and eight? I mean, is it ever about the academic? 00:04:02.599 --> 00:04:04.039 You know, I was thinking about this earlier today 00:04:04.039 --> 00:04:06.699 about exactly this and actually the different 00:04:06.699 --> 00:04:09.759 cultures around year seven and eight academically 00:04:09.759 --> 00:04:12.780 within a prep school and within the first two 00:04:12.780 --> 00:04:17.420 years of a senior school. Maybe I should have 00:04:17.420 --> 00:04:19.939 mentioned before, I was a history teacher back 00:04:19.939 --> 00:04:24.660 in the day and taught at two 11 to 18 London 00:04:24.660 --> 00:04:27.160 day schools. And so I saw those year sevens and 00:04:27.160 --> 00:04:30.920 eights very much as at the start of their journey, 00:04:31.079 --> 00:04:35.379 quite scratchy, quite sort of not quite there 00:04:35.379 --> 00:04:37.759 yet, coming from lots and lots of different backgrounds, 00:04:37.879 --> 00:04:40.079 lots of different primary and independent junior 00:04:40.079 --> 00:04:45.269 schools. And I think in a... secondary school 00:04:45.269 --> 00:04:47.829 like that years seven and eight are seen as a 00:04:47.829 --> 00:04:50.350 little bit of a warm -up you know you're learning 00:04:50.350 --> 00:04:52.850 their names they're figuring out their way around 00:04:52.850 --> 00:04:55.529 they're getting used to having bigger folders 00:04:55.529 --> 00:04:58.750 and having to dart from here to there more and 00:04:58.750 --> 00:05:02.930 and i think anyway i as a teacher certainly didn't 00:05:02.930 --> 00:05:06.490 take their intellectual capacity as seriously 00:05:06.490 --> 00:05:10.589 as i think perhaps year seven and eight are taken 00:05:10.589 --> 00:05:12.629 within a prep school context where actually they're 00:05:12.629 --> 00:05:15.290 the top of the pile. And for lots of teachers 00:05:15.290 --> 00:05:19.730 in a secondary, so 11 to 18 setting, actually 00:05:19.730 --> 00:05:21.930 they've got lots of sixth formers to think about. 00:05:22.069 --> 00:05:24.129 And that's where they can get their really crunchy, 00:05:24.410 --> 00:05:27.529 stretchy, challenging lessons in and their interesting 00:05:27.529 --> 00:05:29.930 discussions in. And I think that year seven and 00:05:29.930 --> 00:05:31.310 eight are perhaps slightly overlooked in that 00:05:31.310 --> 00:05:33.509 setting. Whereas I think to be at a school like 00:05:33.509 --> 00:05:35.670 this one or a school where you've got them until 00:05:35.670 --> 00:05:40.129 they're 13, possibly teachers here, Mary -Kate, 00:05:40.170 --> 00:05:42.750 you're on the front line of this, but possibly 00:05:42.750 --> 00:05:44.410 teachers here see their year sevens and eights 00:05:44.410 --> 00:05:46.930 as the really exciting ones who can be stretched 00:05:46.930 --> 00:05:49.189 that much further. So I wonder whether there's... 00:05:49.719 --> 00:05:51.720 perhaps in terms of teacher expectations, something 00:05:51.720 --> 00:05:53.379 slightly different going on. I really recognise 00:05:53.379 --> 00:05:55.699 that, having been in a school exactly that, who 00:05:55.699 --> 00:05:57.620 had seven and eight, and it was almost an afterthought. 00:05:57.680 --> 00:05:59.560 And you thought, well, that's okay. And you're 00:05:59.560 --> 00:06:01.040 trying to give them a lot of breadth. And of 00:06:01.040 --> 00:06:02.959 course, we do in prep school try and give them 00:06:02.959 --> 00:06:04.899 breadth, but there is definitely stretch and 00:06:04.899 --> 00:06:07.579 challenge towards common entrance and a number 00:06:07.579 --> 00:06:09.439 of our children go on and do a scholarship. I 00:06:09.439 --> 00:06:11.939 mean, Alistair, your expectations academically 00:06:11.939 --> 00:06:14.980 for children when they arrive in year nine, what 00:06:14.980 --> 00:06:17.800 is your expectation that they've, the point at 00:06:17.800 --> 00:06:21.259 which they're at? It's a great question. So we 00:06:21.259 --> 00:06:23.420 believe that knowledge is important. So actually, 00:06:23.459 --> 00:06:25.160 the common entry syllabus, the common scholarship 00:06:25.160 --> 00:06:26.939 syllabus, that's really important. It's a stepping 00:06:26.939 --> 00:06:30.120 stone towards GCSE. And GCSE is there as a milestone 00:06:30.120 --> 00:06:31.699 in children's academic journey at the age of 00:06:31.699 --> 00:06:34.100 16. For us, it makes perfect sense that there 00:06:34.100 --> 00:06:36.139 should be an assessment at the age of 13 at that 00:06:36.139 --> 00:06:38.480 traditional point of transition from junior school 00:06:38.480 --> 00:06:41.560 to senior school as a preparation and to get 00:06:41.560 --> 00:06:43.920 into the habit of consolidating knowledge, preparing 00:06:43.920 --> 00:06:46.980 for exams, the pressure of the exam room. a lower 00:06:46.980 --> 00:06:49.459 stakes set of exams, but nonetheless an important 00:06:49.459 --> 00:06:52.279 set of exams. We think that's important. I think 00:06:52.279 --> 00:06:56.240 the point about the teaching point on the environment 00:06:56.240 --> 00:06:57.779 in year seven, eight at the top of a prep school, 00:06:57.839 --> 00:07:00.420 it's about mastery. So if you are teaching children 00:07:00.420 --> 00:07:03.060 in seven and eight all the time, and that's your 00:07:03.060 --> 00:07:05.500 real focus, as it would be in any prep school 00:07:05.500 --> 00:07:07.639 across the age range, but obviously all those 00:07:07.639 --> 00:07:10.100 older children are in focus also in the way you 00:07:10.100 --> 00:07:12.019 describe, Camilla. I think that makes you better 00:07:12.019 --> 00:07:14.259 at it in the same way that if your age range 00:07:14.259 --> 00:07:16.779 is 13 to 18, you develop a real skill set for 00:07:16.779 --> 00:07:19.319 teaching children of that age. And I think the 00:07:19.319 --> 00:07:21.399 traditional model, it was traditional for a reason. 00:07:21.850 --> 00:07:23.550 that people thought it was the natural and right 00:07:23.550 --> 00:07:25.149 point of transition. I mean, there are lots of 00:07:25.149 --> 00:07:27.230 other pastoral benefits to the change and co 00:07:27.230 --> 00:07:28.509 -curricular benefits, and I'm sure we'll come 00:07:28.509 --> 00:07:30.610 on to talk about those. But in the academic pathway, 00:07:30.769 --> 00:07:33.410 I think those reasons hold now in the way that 00:07:33.410 --> 00:07:35.389 they used to before. And it's not educational 00:07:35.389 --> 00:07:37.529 considerations that have led to an increase in 00:07:37.529 --> 00:07:39.670 11 plus admission. Those are more commercial, 00:07:39.709 --> 00:07:42.290 financial. regrettably, financial considerations 00:07:42.290 --> 00:07:44.529 that have forced schools to change their approach. 00:07:44.949 --> 00:07:47.089 And I think that's a sadness. And it's not a 00:07:47.089 --> 00:07:48.769 set of decisions that puts children at the heart 00:07:48.769 --> 00:07:51.750 of the experience. Yeah, that's so true. I mean, 00:07:51.769 --> 00:07:54.050 from the year seven and eights that you look 00:07:54.050 --> 00:07:56.970 after, I mean, how do they see where they are 00:07:56.970 --> 00:07:58.970 sort of academically? Do they strive towards 00:07:58.970 --> 00:08:00.850 sort of common entrance? Do they see that as, 00:08:00.889 --> 00:08:03.310 as Alistair says, the sort of pinnacle of their... 00:08:03.790 --> 00:08:05.850 Yeah, absolutely. And we often hear children 00:08:05.850 --> 00:08:08.129 say, gosh, it's been a real step up into year 00:08:08.129 --> 00:08:11.509 seven. They notice that the adults around them 00:08:11.509 --> 00:08:13.850 are focusing on the need for them to academically 00:08:13.850 --> 00:08:16.910 develop and learn. So it's also not only about 00:08:16.910 --> 00:08:20.290 the academic learning, it's about them as a person, 00:08:20.310 --> 00:08:23.050 how they navigate the academics. So you've got 00:08:23.050 --> 00:08:25.629 all the knowledge of each subject, but also how 00:08:25.629 --> 00:08:27.389 are you going to tackle things like revision, 00:08:27.569 --> 00:08:30.850 organisation? being on time, which all are a 00:08:30.850 --> 00:08:33.669 crucial part to your learning. So I think they 00:08:33.669 --> 00:08:37.250 really, definitely we focus with those year seven 00:08:37.250 --> 00:08:40.669 and eight years on developing that skill in an 00:08:40.669 --> 00:08:42.750 environment where they're known, where they're 00:08:42.750 --> 00:08:45.669 understood, where adults have got to know them 00:08:45.669 --> 00:08:48.450 through many different processes and over the 00:08:48.450 --> 00:08:51.580 years and can really nurture them. But yeah, 00:08:51.659 --> 00:08:53.720 the stretching is a big part. And the outside 00:08:53.720 --> 00:08:56.019 the box thinking as well. They get opportunities 00:08:56.019 --> 00:08:59.500 rather than just focusing on the basic curriculum. 00:09:00.379 --> 00:09:02.519 Already by the end of year seven, they're starting 00:09:02.519 --> 00:09:04.519 to think outside the box in their learning. They're 00:09:04.519 --> 00:09:07.700 being stretched beyond the curriculum for common 00:09:07.700 --> 00:09:10.820 entrance or potentially GCSE. They are thinking 00:09:10.820 --> 00:09:14.559 about A -levels and extended answers, which is 00:09:14.559 --> 00:09:17.139 wonderful to see. Just to add to that, if you 00:09:17.139 --> 00:09:20.340 think about a 13 to 18 school and visiting speakers 00:09:20.340 --> 00:09:22.360 and professors from universities who come in 00:09:22.360 --> 00:09:24.039 to deliver academic talks, they are accessible 00:09:24.039 --> 00:09:26.220 to children who are in the age range 13 to 18 00:09:26.220 --> 00:09:28.440 in a way that some of those talks just wouldn't 00:09:28.440 --> 00:09:31.000 be pitched appropriately. Nobody's fault, but 00:09:31.000 --> 00:09:33.779 that's just the way the learners are at the age 00:09:33.779 --> 00:09:36.039 of 11. Conversely, in a prep school that goes 00:09:36.039 --> 00:09:38.019 to the age of 13, an academic enrichment program 00:09:38.019 --> 00:09:39.740 with visiting speakers from senior schools, from 00:09:39.740 --> 00:09:41.700 people in public life coming in to talk about 00:09:41.700 --> 00:09:44.399 their careers, their work, their own academic 00:09:44.399 --> 00:09:46.820 journey, that can really resonate because it's 00:09:46.820 --> 00:09:48.500 pitched at the right level for children who are 00:09:48.500 --> 00:09:50.620 12, 13 and the final years of their prep school 00:09:50.620 --> 00:09:52.259 experience. Again, it goes to that point about 00:09:52.259 --> 00:09:54.559 the traditional model and why it endured for 00:09:54.559 --> 00:09:58.049 so long. I know some parents do worry. with that 00:09:58.049 --> 00:09:59.730 transition at 13, that they're only going to 00:09:59.730 --> 00:10:01.450 have one year before they start having to make 00:10:01.450 --> 00:10:04.509 their GCSE choices? And is that enough time? 00:10:06.830 --> 00:10:08.809 I mean, is that something people worry about 00:10:08.809 --> 00:10:11.450 when they come to you? How do you kind of counterbalance 00:10:11.450 --> 00:10:13.389 that concern? It's obviously a talking point. 00:10:14.049 --> 00:10:16.690 And one of the things that is certainly true 00:10:16.690 --> 00:10:18.649 in our school at St Edward's, we offer a choice 00:10:18.649 --> 00:10:21.679 in year nine. So actually the process of specializing 00:10:21.679 --> 00:10:23.919 starts a bit earlier. And to a degree that happens 00:10:23.919 --> 00:10:26.639 in prep schools too. So if you're taking an academic 00:10:26.639 --> 00:10:28.620 scholarship for a senior school, often you won't 00:10:28.620 --> 00:10:30.700 offer papers in all subjects. You'll start to 00:10:30.700 --> 00:10:32.679 specialize even at that slightly younger age. 00:10:32.820 --> 00:10:35.240 So the specialization question doesn't for us 00:10:35.240 --> 00:10:37.940 cause a problem or from my perspective exists 00:10:37.940 --> 00:10:41.639 as a problem in the 13 plus transition. The year 00:10:41.639 --> 00:10:44.240 nine experience in a senior school is about making 00:10:44.240 --> 00:10:45.860 sure everybody's getting to the right page, the 00:10:45.860 --> 00:10:48.039 same page before they really embark on the GCSE 00:10:48.039 --> 00:10:51.090 courses. in earnest in year 10. And given that 00:10:51.090 --> 00:10:53.190 in boarding schools, especially, the intake is 00:10:53.190 --> 00:10:55.529 international to a degree. I mean, mainly coming 00:10:55.529 --> 00:10:57.509 from the UK, but 20 % of the children in our 00:10:57.509 --> 00:10:59.750 school, for example, they cross a border to come 00:10:59.750 --> 00:11:01.529 to school and everybody has to get the right 00:11:01.529 --> 00:11:04.830 grounding. So year nine is the kind of proving 00:11:04.830 --> 00:11:07.149 ground before GCSE starts in earnest in year 00:11:07.149 --> 00:11:09.769 10. So the question, the concern that some parents 00:11:09.769 --> 00:11:11.210 might have, I don't think really crystallizes 00:11:11.210 --> 00:11:14.019 in reality. And of course, Camilla, what we've 00:11:14.019 --> 00:11:15.519 been talking about is that transition possibly 00:11:15.519 --> 00:11:17.639 to a big boarding school that might have a day 00:11:17.639 --> 00:11:20.379 people. I mean, do you get many questions about 00:11:20.379 --> 00:11:23.740 a transition to a day school at 13? Do people 00:11:23.740 --> 00:11:26.299 have worries about, you know, children joining 00:11:26.299 --> 00:11:28.600 particularly day schools at that transition? 00:11:28.600 --> 00:11:33.570 I think, I mean, in London now, the... That has 00:11:33.570 --> 00:11:36.590 shifted hugely towards the big day schools recruiting 00:11:36.590 --> 00:11:40.470 at 11 plus and even the old boys schools that 00:11:40.470 --> 00:11:42.389 traditionally did have their biggest intake at 00:11:42.389 --> 00:11:44.509 13 and now seeing a lot of boys coming at 11, 00:11:44.629 --> 00:11:49.070 usually or often from state primaries that finish 00:11:49.070 --> 00:11:51.509 at that stage. So I think that has moved anyway. 00:11:51.570 --> 00:11:53.509 I think around here in the landscape that we're 00:11:53.509 --> 00:11:57.580 in, all of our local day schools. do have a big 00:11:57.580 --> 00:12:00.559 intake at 13 plus. And as I understand it, really 00:12:00.559 --> 00:12:03.659 celebrate and welcome those children who have 00:12:03.659 --> 00:12:06.419 been at a prep school designed like that, who 00:12:06.419 --> 00:12:08.059 have then finished their journey at their prep 00:12:08.059 --> 00:12:13.460 school and are ready to move on. There are pros 00:12:13.460 --> 00:12:16.159 and cons and clearly it's personality based and 00:12:16.159 --> 00:12:17.639 it depends on your child and it depends on the 00:12:17.639 --> 00:12:21.399 school that they're going to. I think that parents 00:12:21.399 --> 00:12:25.889 can be concerned about the social aspects. of, 00:12:25.889 --> 00:12:29.529 well, if 140 of the girls have joined in year 00:12:29.529 --> 00:12:32.769 seven, then how are the 25 joining in year nine 00:12:32.769 --> 00:12:36.009 going to cope? But I think actually, and this 00:12:36.009 --> 00:12:37.990 is where it just depends on the child, doesn't 00:12:37.990 --> 00:12:41.429 it? But I think actually the confidence that 00:12:41.429 --> 00:12:44.330 you build through year seven and eight and the 00:12:44.330 --> 00:12:48.919 self -belief and if you can go in... really running 00:12:48.919 --> 00:12:52.820 as one of 25 new joiners or 15 new joiners into 00:12:52.820 --> 00:12:56.340 a year nine, into an established year group as 00:12:56.340 --> 00:13:00.200 part of a smaller year nine intake, then I think, 00:13:00.200 --> 00:13:01.720 you know, a lot of the girls and boys are quite 00:13:01.720 --> 00:13:04.899 keen for new faces, new friends, a little bit 00:13:04.899 --> 00:13:07.759 of new interest. You're often coming with two 00:13:07.759 --> 00:13:10.100 or three from your prep school anyway, so you've 00:13:10.100 --> 00:13:12.320 got a little bit of a safety net, but also you've 00:13:12.320 --> 00:13:15.350 had... this experience in year seven and eight 00:13:15.350 --> 00:13:17.970 of being the top of the pile, having all these 00:13:17.970 --> 00:13:21.129 opportunities, both academic and co -curricular, 00:13:21.269 --> 00:13:24.129 and having that self -esteem, just being that 00:13:24.129 --> 00:13:28.389 little bit more relaxed in yourself, perhaps 00:13:28.389 --> 00:13:30.889 a little bit more sure about yourself than you 00:13:30.889 --> 00:13:32.970 might have been had you not got to the top of 00:13:32.970 --> 00:13:35.940 the pile. in your in your prep school you know 00:13:35.940 --> 00:13:37.519 if you've left early at the end of year six for 00:13:37.519 --> 00:13:41.379 example yeah exactly getting the leavers hoodie 00:13:41.379 --> 00:13:43.879 doing the leavers assembly doing the scholarship 00:13:43.879 --> 00:13:47.620 process i think there is something quite lifting 00:13:47.620 --> 00:13:50.440 about all of that and you're if we think about 00:13:50.440 --> 00:13:51.919 this sort of the personal development of the 00:13:51.919 --> 00:13:53.980 children what happens in that year seven and 00:13:53.980 --> 00:13:56.039 eight how do you see them what doesn't happen 00:13:56.039 --> 00:14:00.820 there's so much I think what we know is happening 00:14:00.820 --> 00:14:03.580 behind the scenes is developing. They're going 00:14:03.580 --> 00:14:06.700 through puberty, they're emotionally developing, 00:14:06.860 --> 00:14:09.940 and it can be a real rollercoaster ride for them. 00:14:10.100 --> 00:14:11.799 But the wonderful thing about the year seven 00:14:11.799 --> 00:14:14.100 and eight years in a prep school is they are 00:14:14.100 --> 00:14:16.840 already known. The teachers have already watched 00:14:16.840 --> 00:14:19.399 them on that journey, or if they're receiving 00:14:19.399 --> 00:14:21.980 them into year seven, are ready to sort of nurture 00:14:21.980 --> 00:14:25.600 them. And what's most interesting is if you talk 00:14:25.600 --> 00:14:28.120 to the children themselves, they actually say, 00:14:28.669 --> 00:14:31.190 they're leaving with confidence. So often you 00:14:31.190 --> 00:14:32.690 hear the parents say, oh, I just felt my child 00:14:32.690 --> 00:14:34.049 was more comfortable, but actually the children 00:14:34.049 --> 00:14:36.870 are seeing that. And they're talking about how... 00:14:38.319 --> 00:14:40.820 leaving at year eight is like a step that it's 00:14:40.820 --> 00:14:42.820 provided them with a stepping stone to independence 00:14:42.820 --> 00:14:45.840 and they've really become equipped and that's 00:14:45.840 --> 00:14:48.799 mainly through obviously rigorous teaching and 00:14:48.799 --> 00:14:51.480 a focus on the academics but also all the extracurricular 00:14:51.480 --> 00:14:54.039 stuff the opportunities that a year seven and 00:14:54.039 --> 00:14:56.259 eight child have in a prep school around trips 00:14:56.259 --> 00:14:59.139 you know going off to Japan for example or on 00:14:59.139 --> 00:15:01.960 sports tours that you might not really see start 00:15:01.960 --> 00:15:05.139 till fifth form or fourth form in a senior school 00:15:05.139 --> 00:15:09.600 you know just them with that experience and therefore 00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:13.980 having to navigate scenarios and equip themselves 00:15:13.980 --> 00:15:17.860 with strategies for a journey ahead. And they 00:15:17.860 --> 00:15:21.759 do often leave really confident, well -rounded 00:15:21.759 --> 00:15:23.750 children. There are some points that follow there 00:15:23.750 --> 00:15:25.029 in relation to leadership. I'm sure we'll come 00:15:25.029 --> 00:15:27.429 back to those in a moment. But just on those 00:15:27.429 --> 00:15:30.289 early years of that early adolescent period, 00:15:30.389 --> 00:15:32.309 it can be a really difficult time. That's self 00:15:32.309 --> 00:15:35.450 -evidently true. And actually, if you start early 00:15:35.450 --> 00:15:37.610 in a prep school that goes to 13, then you're 00:15:37.610 --> 00:15:40.350 well -known by your teachers, you're well -known 00:15:40.350 --> 00:15:41.710 by your peers, you've got a really strong sense 00:15:41.710 --> 00:15:44.009 of place and identity. I think that also applies 00:15:44.009 --> 00:15:46.190 even if you make the change at the end of year 00:15:46.190 --> 00:15:48.889 six. If you go from a school that finishes at 00:15:48.889 --> 00:15:51.110 11 and you do the final two years of your prep 00:15:51.110 --> 00:15:53.279 school experience. in seven and eight in a different 00:15:53.279 --> 00:15:55.179 school. I think you're still at the top of the 00:15:55.179 --> 00:15:57.070 school. And you're not struggling to find your 00:15:57.070 --> 00:15:59.070 identity relative to children who are 17, 18, 00:15:59.190 --> 00:16:01.929 who appear like adults to you. You're finding 00:16:01.929 --> 00:16:03.529 your identity with people who are the same age 00:16:03.529 --> 00:16:05.429 as you, going through often the same changes 00:16:05.429 --> 00:16:07.509 in the way they think and the way they are. I 00:16:07.509 --> 00:16:09.409 think that's a much easier environment in which 00:16:09.409 --> 00:16:12.129 to navigate that potentially difficult time in 00:16:12.129 --> 00:16:14.210 early adolescence. I agree. And I think it is 00:16:14.210 --> 00:16:15.990 important that, you know, it's a big decision 00:16:15.990 --> 00:16:18.809 deciding on the senior school. But I think you 00:16:18.809 --> 00:16:21.649 know much more about your child at 13 and know 00:16:21.649 --> 00:16:23.250 what's going to suit them, whether it's boarding 00:16:23.250 --> 00:16:25.700 or day. So to have that... you know, that time 00:16:25.700 --> 00:16:28.440 just to let them cook a bit longer in order to 00:16:28.440 --> 00:16:30.860 make that choice. I think also our relationship 00:16:30.860 --> 00:16:33.440 with parents is all focused around their development 00:16:33.440 --> 00:16:35.679 at that age, whereas potentially if you're going 00:16:35.679 --> 00:16:38.919 to a school at year seven that goes to 18, your 00:16:38.919 --> 00:16:41.100 focus starts to already be how will they do at 00:16:41.100 --> 00:16:44.399 GCSEs? And so there's a danger you miss those 00:16:44.399 --> 00:16:48.360 really, you know, special years where a child 00:16:48.360 --> 00:16:51.059 is still a child. And they can be a child, but 00:16:51.059 --> 00:16:53.399 alongside that be given little injections of 00:16:53.399 --> 00:16:55.860 responsibility and leadership. Yeah. And I think 00:16:55.860 --> 00:16:57.600 leadership is a really interesting point, isn't 00:16:57.600 --> 00:16:59.500 it? But are parents interested in leadership? 00:16:59.679 --> 00:17:01.580 I mean, it's almost kind of an old fashioned 00:17:01.580 --> 00:17:03.980 world. I mean, you know, we don't have head boy 00:17:03.980 --> 00:17:06.000 and head girl anymore. We have ambassadors with 00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:09.460 much more of a sort of service perspective. But 00:17:09.460 --> 00:17:10.960 I don't know whether that's something that parents 00:17:10.960 --> 00:17:13.440 would want. I think parents are interested in. 00:17:13.819 --> 00:17:16.259 character education and building all of those 00:17:16.259 --> 00:17:19.079 skills that we all know and increasingly we know 00:17:19.079 --> 00:17:20.759 are so important in our children. And I think 00:17:20.759 --> 00:17:23.960 if, I don't think parents are necessarily interested 00:17:23.960 --> 00:17:28.640 in leadership as a, you know, I want him or her 00:17:28.640 --> 00:17:30.900 to stand in front of thousands of people on speech 00:17:30.900 --> 00:17:33.079 day and make a speech type leadership. But I 00:17:33.079 --> 00:17:35.660 think there's definitely a sense of let's get 00:17:35.660 --> 00:17:39.740 these children as future ready as possible in 00:17:39.740 --> 00:17:42.079 this safe environment and give them all these 00:17:42.079 --> 00:17:45.259 opportunities to learn and to fail and to develop 00:17:45.259 --> 00:17:47.880 and to grow and to develop that grit and that 00:17:47.880 --> 00:17:50.519 resilience that they'll then need going on into 00:17:50.519 --> 00:17:53.700 their big schools and into adult life. So I hope 00:17:53.700 --> 00:17:55.579 parents are interested in that, if not leadership 00:17:55.579 --> 00:17:58.200 in the more conventional sense. Just to pick 00:17:58.200 --> 00:18:00.460 up on the point you made earlier about knowing 00:18:00.460 --> 00:18:01.799 your child and what school is going to be right 00:18:01.799 --> 00:18:03.539 for them. One of the things that we've seen is 00:18:03.539 --> 00:18:05.079 a really big increase in the number of children 00:18:05.079 --> 00:18:07.619 interested in year 10 admission. And those are 00:18:07.619 --> 00:18:09.960 children coming in from 11 plus schools. So at 00:18:09.960 --> 00:18:12.180 a younger age, their parents, they made a decision 00:18:12.180 --> 00:18:13.920 that the 11 plus route was right for them and 00:18:13.920 --> 00:18:16.200 they moved. And then they've come to the realization 00:18:16.200 --> 00:18:18.500 a year or two later that maybe that wasn't the 00:18:18.500 --> 00:18:19.960 right environment for them. And they've changed 00:18:19.960 --> 00:18:22.259 as people as they've grown up in those early 00:18:22.259 --> 00:18:24.680 teenage years. And they've changed track. And 00:18:24.680 --> 00:18:26.400 they've decided to go to a different school, 00:18:26.480 --> 00:18:28.980 to our school in this case, for year 10 onwards. 00:18:29.059 --> 00:18:31.000 And that's a really interesting phenomenon. And 00:18:31.000 --> 00:18:32.400 it's quite recent. And I think it's driven to 00:18:32.400 --> 00:18:35.339 a degree by schools moving away from 13 plus. 00:18:35.930 --> 00:18:37.269 and starting to say, well, if you're coming to 00:18:37.269 --> 00:18:38.569 us, you're coming at 11 or you're not coming 00:18:38.569 --> 00:18:40.869 at all. Again, that's not an educationally motivated 00:18:40.869 --> 00:18:42.930 decision. That's a financially motivated decision, 00:18:43.069 --> 00:18:45.849 which is a sadness. The other observation is 00:18:45.849 --> 00:18:48.390 on leadership. I think all children in year eight 00:18:48.390 --> 00:18:50.579 are leaders in the school. No exceptions. They 00:18:50.579 --> 00:18:52.680 know they're the oldest children. And by definition, 00:18:52.680 --> 00:18:53.920 as the oldest children in a school, they are 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:56.539 looked up to by those who are younger. Not everybody's 00:18:56.539 --> 00:18:58.480 going to be captain of the team, but everybody 00:18:58.480 --> 00:19:01.180 can be in year eight. And by definition, one 00:19:01.180 --> 00:19:02.559 of the leading people in the school, they're 00:19:02.559 --> 00:19:04.819 going to the leaver's service or there they are, 00:19:04.839 --> 00:19:05.980 the leavers are going to see the head teacher. 00:19:06.119 --> 00:19:08.960 You know, those kinds of things are really formative 00:19:08.960 --> 00:19:11.160 at a subliminal level formative, even if you're 00:19:11.160 --> 00:19:13.339 not, you know, at a starring role in a play or, 00:19:13.359 --> 00:19:15.019 you know, standing on the stage at speech day, 00:19:15.059 --> 00:19:17.160 you're still learning to lead in a way that's 00:19:17.160 --> 00:19:18.900 really helpful for you at a really formative 00:19:18.900 --> 00:19:22.599 time. I think to that point as well about timings 00:19:22.599 --> 00:19:25.180 and the different structures that are emerging 00:19:25.180 --> 00:19:27.299 in terms of when parents tend to move their children. 00:19:27.819 --> 00:19:30.519 I think moving in sixth form, which a lot of 00:19:30.519 --> 00:19:33.460 parents, I think, assume that they'll start in 00:19:33.460 --> 00:19:36.380 year seven, they'll move school in year seven. 00:19:36.599 --> 00:19:38.640 And then, well, we can always look elsewhere 00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:40.339 for sixth form. Maybe we can think about the 00:19:40.339 --> 00:19:44.299 IB or boarding or co -ed or whatever it is. And 00:19:44.299 --> 00:19:46.619 I think actually moving in sixth form. For a 00:19:46.619 --> 00:19:48.079 lot of children, clearly it's the right thing 00:19:48.079 --> 00:19:50.599 to be doing at that time. But it's quite a quick 00:19:50.599 --> 00:19:53.380 turnaround that. By the time you've settled in 00:19:53.380 --> 00:19:55.299 and worked out who's who and got your feet under 00:19:55.299 --> 00:19:57.539 the desk, it's Christmas. And then you're thinking 00:19:57.539 --> 00:20:00.279 about UCAS very soon after that. And before you 00:20:00.279 --> 00:20:02.740 know it, you're taking your final exams. And 00:20:02.740 --> 00:20:05.240 I think that's a real shame. It feels quite rushed 00:20:05.240 --> 00:20:09.180 to me. But I wonder if there's more of a correlation, 00:20:09.259 --> 00:20:12.589 more of a pattern between... children starting 00:20:12.589 --> 00:20:15.289 in year seven and actually outgrowing that setting 00:20:15.289 --> 00:20:17.829 or their needs changing by the end of their GCSEs 00:20:17.829 --> 00:20:19.710 and therefore having to make that jump to sixth 00:20:19.710 --> 00:20:22.170 form rather than, as you say, letting them cook 00:20:22.170 --> 00:20:24.710 for a couple of years longer and making a decision 00:20:24.710 --> 00:20:26.509 that then ultimately carries them through to 00:20:26.509 --> 00:20:29.509 the end of school from 13 to 18. Because to me, 00:20:29.690 --> 00:20:33.289 13 to 18 feels like a very coherent or 14 to 00:20:33.289 --> 00:20:36.970 18 feels like a very coherent chunk. And it seems 00:20:36.970 --> 00:20:39.509 a shame to move at 16 and then to do those last 00:20:39.509 --> 00:20:42.000 two years in such a hurry. Yeah. I would agree 00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:43.940 with you. And certainly having taught in a school, 00:20:44.019 --> 00:20:45.900 that was absolutely the case. It's almost like, 00:20:45.960 --> 00:20:47.920 actually, you know, I do want a bit of a change. 00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:49.700 I've been with these people. And particularly, 00:20:49.920 --> 00:20:52.059 I've been with those people sort of when we were 00:20:52.059 --> 00:20:55.000 really little. And actually, we've all developed 00:20:55.000 --> 00:20:56.599 and we've changed and we've kind of gone in different 00:20:56.599 --> 00:20:59.480 directions. So it does tend to happen. That's 00:20:59.480 --> 00:21:01.920 borne out by our experience at Teddy. So we have 00:21:01.920 --> 00:21:04.119 about 50 children joined in the sixth form. And 00:21:04.119 --> 00:21:05.660 obviously we're a co -educational school and 00:21:05.660 --> 00:21:07.140 we're an IB and A -level school, so there are 00:21:07.140 --> 00:21:10.700 good reasons to change in some cases. But actually 00:21:10.700 --> 00:21:12.380 most of the children who come in in the sixth 00:21:12.380 --> 00:21:15.200 form, they came from 11 -plus schools and they've 00:21:15.200 --> 00:21:17.059 decided to change tack for precisely the reasons 00:21:17.059 --> 00:21:18.660 you describe. And it's actually comparatively 00:21:18.660 --> 00:21:21.180 rare. It does happen. We think we're a great 00:21:21.180 --> 00:21:23.160 school. people choose it for lots of reasons 00:21:23.160 --> 00:21:25.519 uh but actually it does it is pretty rare for 00:21:25.519 --> 00:21:27.319 it to happen with children who started at 13 00:21:27.319 --> 00:21:29.380 because they made maybe the decision that was 00:21:29.380 --> 00:21:31.019 right for them first time around and they and 00:21:31.019 --> 00:21:32.859 they stick with it through to the end and the 00:21:32.859 --> 00:21:34.539 other observation to your point there about the 00:21:34.539 --> 00:21:36.240 sixth form experience is that is that children 00:21:36.240 --> 00:21:38.019 who joined in the sixth form often when they 00:21:38.019 --> 00:21:39.730 reach the end they say gosh i wish I wish that 00:21:39.730 --> 00:21:42.130 had been longer. Longer, yes, exactly, exactly. 00:21:42.390 --> 00:21:44.430 But so what about those parents who are worried 00:21:44.430 --> 00:21:46.490 about doing that, that jump just for the two 00:21:46.490 --> 00:21:49.250 years? Thinking, actually, will they get to know 00:21:49.250 --> 00:21:51.269 my child? Will they be able to advise me on future 00:21:51.269 --> 00:21:53.289 schools? Are they going to be okay? Do you mean 00:21:53.289 --> 00:21:54.190 the two years you're seven and eight? Yeah, seven 00:21:54.190 --> 00:21:56.250 and eight. You know, so because, you know, at 00:21:56.250 --> 00:21:58.150 our school, we do get a number who come to us 00:21:58.150 --> 00:21:59.789 because their school in London is finished or 00:21:59.789 --> 00:22:02.670 whatever. I mean, how do we get to know them 00:22:02.670 --> 00:22:06.349 quickly? I think we, you know, our focus is, 00:22:06.390 --> 00:22:08.569 although our year groups are quite big, we have, 00:22:08.650 --> 00:22:11.750 pastorally our groups are quite small so we have 00:22:11.750 --> 00:22:14.690 tutors that you know a tutor oversees 10 children 00:22:14.690 --> 00:22:18.089 and they meet the parents and their primary focus 00:22:18.089 --> 00:22:21.089 is to be that child's champion and to support 00:22:21.089 --> 00:22:24.230 them pastorally and academically so very quickly 00:22:24.230 --> 00:22:27.640 the focus is how can we help you to settle Where 00:22:27.640 --> 00:22:31.460 can we support you to become part of things within 00:22:31.460 --> 00:22:33.940 the school? You know, where are your strengths? 00:22:34.160 --> 00:22:36.039 Because we're aware they've only got two years 00:22:36.039 --> 00:22:38.559 with us and we know what we can offer them. So 00:22:38.559 --> 00:22:41.339 we want them to bed down and be involved. I mean, 00:22:41.359 --> 00:22:43.099 I suppose bringing in boarding at this point 00:22:43.099 --> 00:22:46.500 is really key. Talking to the children who come 00:22:46.500 --> 00:22:48.339 into board, even just for a couple of nights 00:22:48.339 --> 00:22:50.859 a week in year seven, they talk about it being 00:22:50.859 --> 00:22:53.839 really exciting and like a sleepover and constantly 00:22:53.839 --> 00:22:56.539 with your friends. And very quickly that narrative. 00:22:56.779 --> 00:22:59.220 As they go through and starting year eight, they're 00:22:59.220 --> 00:23:01.420 talking about it being like a home and a family 00:23:01.420 --> 00:23:04.619 and a place they belong. And I think having that 00:23:04.619 --> 00:23:08.259 sort of security and I guess rock -like basis 00:23:08.259 --> 00:23:11.460 to launch from in those year seven and eight 00:23:11.460 --> 00:23:14.220 years as you investigate drama and art and music 00:23:14.220 --> 00:23:18.259 and sport gives you great security and confidence 00:23:18.259 --> 00:23:21.460 to then know, okay, with all the change that 00:23:21.460 --> 00:23:24.579 might come in year nine, I know. This is what 00:23:24.579 --> 00:23:27.279 I enjoy. I know I can do time away from home. 00:23:27.480 --> 00:23:32.539 I know I can explore the hills in Wales and get 00:23:32.539 --> 00:23:36.480 through the whitewater rafting or whatever you 00:23:36.480 --> 00:23:39.880 do. And all that with staff who very quickly 00:23:39.880 --> 00:23:42.579 are driven to get to know you. I think that's 00:23:42.579 --> 00:23:44.079 right. The other thing I was going to say on 00:23:44.079 --> 00:23:47.009 the same theme is that the... Change can be good. 00:23:47.670 --> 00:23:50.529 Uncertainty is always bad. So our admissions 00:23:50.529 --> 00:23:52.529 process, in line with lots of other senior schools 00:23:52.529 --> 00:23:55.900 that start at 13, runs mainly in year six. 60 00:23:55.900 --> 00:23:57.720 % of our places are allocated to children who 00:23:57.720 --> 00:23:59.680 go through the process in year six. So it's perfectly 00:23:59.680 --> 00:24:01.920 possible to know where you're going. And let's 00:24:01.920 --> 00:24:04.500 say to leave a London school or any school, but 00:24:04.500 --> 00:24:06.980 particularly a London school, which finishes 00:24:06.980 --> 00:24:08.880 at the age of 11 to come to the Dragon for two 00:24:08.880 --> 00:24:10.799 years and then to come to Teddy's. You know, 00:24:10.859 --> 00:24:13.359 when you finish year six at the age of 11, you 00:24:13.359 --> 00:24:15.059 know where you're going. You're going to get 00:24:15.059 --> 00:24:16.880 a great experience for two years in all those 00:24:16.880 --> 00:24:18.940 ways we've just talked about. And then you know 00:24:18.940 --> 00:24:21.720 with confidence that you'll be enrolling in Teddy's 00:24:21.720 --> 00:24:24.140 down the road in two years time. And that I think 00:24:24.140 --> 00:24:26.119 takes away all the uncertainty gives the benefits 00:24:26.119 --> 00:24:27.880 we've described without some of the costs that 00:24:27.880 --> 00:24:30.180 that maybe parents might perceive but if you 00:24:30.180 --> 00:24:32.779 are coming out of a state school at 11 are you 00:24:32.779 --> 00:24:34.920 going to feel you're too late i mean there must 00:24:34.920 --> 00:24:37.180 be people who are kind of thinking actually i 00:24:37.180 --> 00:24:39.259 want a 13 plus school i'm going to be you know 00:24:39.259 --> 00:24:41.240 i'm going to go to a prep school to kind of really 00:24:41.240 --> 00:24:44.000 hope my chances are increased by that are they 00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:48.450 too late no Absolutely not. No, not at all. It's 00:24:48.450 --> 00:24:50.549 extraordinary. I mean, we all know this. It's 00:24:50.549 --> 00:24:52.210 extraordinary the amount of movement that there 00:24:52.210 --> 00:24:54.690 is all the way up to the summer of year eight, 00:24:54.869 --> 00:24:57.890 dare I say it, the first few weeks of year nine, 00:24:57.950 --> 00:25:03.170 just children still working out exactly where 00:25:03.170 --> 00:25:05.529 the right place is going to be for them. And 00:25:05.529 --> 00:25:10.349 I think sadly in this landscape, schools, 13 00:25:10.349 --> 00:25:14.420 plus senior schools have more movements. than 00:25:14.420 --> 00:25:17.720 ever, both in terms of the number of children 00:25:17.720 --> 00:25:19.279 who are ultimately taking up places, but also 00:25:19.279 --> 00:25:22.240 how late families or how much later families 00:25:22.240 --> 00:25:27.680 are leaving that decision. And so, no, absolutely 00:25:27.680 --> 00:25:30.279 not too late. And I think particularly given... 00:25:32.289 --> 00:25:35.650 Particularly given that narrative of, well, actually 00:25:35.650 --> 00:25:38.430 he or she was in our local state primary till 00:25:38.430 --> 00:25:40.109 the end of year six. So of course we weren't 00:25:40.109 --> 00:25:42.130 going through pre -test. No one told us about 00:25:42.130 --> 00:25:45.250 all of that from our primary school in London. 00:25:45.609 --> 00:25:49.750 And so now that we are at the Dragon or whichever 00:25:49.750 --> 00:25:52.970 prep school we've chosen, now we're in that ecosystem 00:25:52.970 --> 00:25:56.589 and now we'll be better handheld through it by 00:25:56.589 --> 00:26:01.859 the school. So no, I would say, I can't think 00:26:01.859 --> 00:26:07.480 of a 13 plus boarding school who would not consider 00:26:07.480 --> 00:26:11.660 your bright, sweet, enthusiastic, go getty child 00:26:11.660 --> 00:26:14.220 in year seven for a place in year nine. The right 00:26:14.220 --> 00:26:16.259 child, the right place is out there. I mean, 00:26:16.279 --> 00:26:17.720 the scale of the decision is greater than it 00:26:17.720 --> 00:26:20.099 was. So the costs are higher, which makes it 00:26:20.099 --> 00:26:22.619 a bigger financial decision for parents. Boarding 00:26:22.619 --> 00:26:24.759 is less. common. Fewer parents have experience 00:26:24.759 --> 00:26:26.200 of boarding themselves, so they hesitate maybe 00:26:26.200 --> 00:26:28.359 on boarding in a way that previous generations 00:26:28.359 --> 00:26:30.779 didn't. So actually having the opportunity to 00:26:30.779 --> 00:26:33.640 make a decision later is to the good. One of 00:26:33.640 --> 00:26:35.279 the reasons why we, for example, only fill 60 00:26:35.279 --> 00:26:37.500 % of our places in year six is that we want to 00:26:37.500 --> 00:26:40.180 have the balancing 40 % for year seven and year 00:26:40.180 --> 00:26:42.259 eight, precisely for those families who come 00:26:42.259 --> 00:26:44.220 to the idea of it later, who haven't been through 00:26:44.220 --> 00:26:46.380 the ICB common pre -test preparation because 00:26:46.380 --> 00:26:48.140 they come from a state school or they hadn't 00:26:48.140 --> 00:26:50.599 previously thought about it. And I think that 00:26:50.599 --> 00:26:53.009 flexibility is a good thing. I mean, I think 00:26:53.009 --> 00:26:54.529 for lots of schools it's forced on them, but 00:26:54.529 --> 00:26:55.730 actually there are really good philosophical 00:26:55.730 --> 00:26:58.230 reasons, educational reasons for making that 00:26:58.230 --> 00:27:01.789 arrangement from the outset. I do also notice 00:27:01.789 --> 00:27:04.450 that the senior schools are much more curious 00:27:04.450 --> 00:27:06.970 about the children themselves rather than it 00:27:06.970 --> 00:27:09.529 being an academic mark on a bit of paper. So 00:27:09.529 --> 00:27:13.309 those who are in year seven applying, it's actually 00:27:13.309 --> 00:27:16.009 much less about an ISEB score and they're always 00:27:16.009 --> 00:27:20.549 welcomed really to interview. The senior school 00:27:20.549 --> 00:27:23.349 wants to know about what makes the child tick 00:27:23.349 --> 00:27:26.589 and, you know, how they would work within their 00:27:26.589 --> 00:27:28.349 setting and how they could support the child. 00:27:28.910 --> 00:27:31.650 Whereas, you know, possibly in year six, because 00:27:31.650 --> 00:27:33.549 there's a larger cohort going for it, there's 00:27:33.549 --> 00:27:35.730 a little bit more of a number behind it and then 00:27:35.730 --> 00:27:38.210 the curiosity. So actually the benefits of trying 00:27:38.210 --> 00:27:41.240 in year seven. that perhaps you're more of an 00:27:41.240 --> 00:27:44.200 individual. You know, I'm not saying that year 00:27:44.200 --> 00:27:47.220 six children aren't noticed and really thought 00:27:47.220 --> 00:27:49.180 about by the senior schools, but it can be a 00:27:49.180 --> 00:27:51.089 real benefit. You're more of an individual. Yes, 00:27:51.089 --> 00:27:52.789 that's right. And also, I mean, I think the way 00:27:52.789 --> 00:27:54.829 in which we're seeing assessment moving is, you 00:27:54.829 --> 00:27:56.529 know, those assessment days rather than just 00:27:56.529 --> 00:27:58.950 one piece of data. And actually to have the confidence 00:27:58.950 --> 00:28:00.809 to be part of those assessment days is something 00:28:00.809 --> 00:28:03.250 that children will know. So if parents are thinking 00:28:03.250 --> 00:28:05.369 about year seven and eight option in a prep school, 00:28:05.549 --> 00:28:07.430 what are the questions they should be asking 00:28:07.430 --> 00:28:09.430 the school that they're looking at, Camilla? 00:28:20.680 --> 00:28:24.279 And my advice to parents about visits is always 00:28:24.279 --> 00:28:27.640 to try and get under the bonnet if you can and 00:28:27.640 --> 00:28:33.039 to try and keep a, and I always think when I'm 00:28:33.039 --> 00:28:34.559 going into reviewer schools, I have to keep my 00:28:34.559 --> 00:28:37.420 cynical eyebrow just up like that. I have to 00:28:37.420 --> 00:28:41.000 be skeptical about everything. The huge majority 00:28:41.000 --> 00:28:42.920 of the time I come away from a school inevitably 00:28:42.920 --> 00:28:45.500 really impressed by what I've seen and thinking 00:28:45.500 --> 00:28:48.819 it's the bee's knees despite my eyebrow. But 00:28:48.819 --> 00:28:51.000 I think that parents need to come into these 00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:55.220 schools with their eyes really open and look 00:28:55.220 --> 00:28:59.599 at the teachers and look at the pupils and ask 00:28:59.599 --> 00:29:03.279 themselves if they can really picture their child 00:29:03.279 --> 00:29:07.059 as part of this. Put aside... how nice the swimming 00:29:07.059 --> 00:29:09.380 pool is or how good the results are. Can you 00:29:09.380 --> 00:29:13.440 actually feel your child here? My advice would 00:29:13.440 --> 00:29:14.960 usually be for parents to come first time by 00:29:14.960 --> 00:29:17.539 themselves. In fact, maybe even the first couple 00:29:17.539 --> 00:29:20.099 of times by themselves and to curate that shortlist 00:29:20.099 --> 00:29:22.759 quite carefully before they let their 10 -year 00:29:22.759 --> 00:29:25.279 -old anywhere near it. Otherwise, something as 00:29:25.279 --> 00:29:27.960 simple as a branded cookie will have your average 00:29:27.960 --> 00:29:33.680 year six. So I think come by yourself and keep 00:29:33.680 --> 00:29:36.599 your eyes open and just take it slowly. Just, 00:29:36.660 --> 00:29:41.960 yeah, don't be too quickly taken in by the whole 00:29:41.960 --> 00:29:43.880 thing. Yeah, I think that's really fair. I would 00:29:43.880 --> 00:29:47.500 say find a child and speak to them. Because I 00:29:47.500 --> 00:29:49.799 think, I mean, it's certainly, I know at the 00:29:49.799 --> 00:29:53.519 Dragon, if you ask any child, why do they love 00:29:53.519 --> 00:29:56.000 the school? They will genuinely have reasons 00:29:56.000 --> 00:29:59.480 and they'll all be different. And I think that's... 00:29:59.839 --> 00:30:01.559 speak you know it's testament to our breadth 00:30:01.559 --> 00:30:04.200 but i think with any school in year seven and 00:30:04.200 --> 00:30:06.299 eight speak to the child themselves the children 00:30:06.299 --> 00:30:09.339 themselves because they are often the best ambassadors 00:30:09.339 --> 00:30:11.839 for the school and you know and they might also 00:30:11.839 --> 00:30:13.640 give you a reality check of some things they 00:30:13.640 --> 00:30:15.859 find hard but actually isn't that a brilliant 00:30:15.859 --> 00:30:18.319 skill in a child to be able to talk about things 00:30:18.319 --> 00:30:20.119 they have found really good and things they've 00:30:20.119 --> 00:30:22.579 struggled through and so i think that's also 00:30:22.579 --> 00:30:25.319 important that it's not all just perfect because 00:30:25.319 --> 00:30:28.519 life isn't perfect I think it's like buying a 00:30:28.519 --> 00:30:30.799 house. So you identify where you'd like to live. 00:30:30.880 --> 00:30:32.819 You identify the kind of house you'd like to 00:30:32.819 --> 00:30:34.579 live in, number of bedrooms, needs a garage, 00:30:34.660 --> 00:30:36.460 needs a garden. And you see lots of houses and 00:30:36.460 --> 00:30:38.759 all of them fit the category. And then you walk 00:30:38.759 --> 00:30:41.180 into one and it feels like home and that's the 00:30:41.180 --> 00:30:42.960 one you want to buy. And I think that's exactly 00:30:42.960 --> 00:30:44.700 the same as visiting schools to the points that 00:30:44.700 --> 00:30:47.319 you've just made. The other observation is in 00:30:47.319 --> 00:30:49.109 terms of, you know, to your question, Emma. what 00:30:49.109 --> 00:30:51.150 should parents be thinking about in choosing 00:30:51.150 --> 00:30:53.650 a school that goes to the age of 13? I think, 00:30:53.650 --> 00:30:55.410 where do the children go when they leave that 00:30:55.410 --> 00:30:57.349 school? So obviously, the trend in our sector 00:30:57.349 --> 00:30:59.789 has been towards consolidation and the establishment 00:30:59.789 --> 00:31:01.849 of a pathway between the junior school and the 00:31:01.849 --> 00:31:04.309 senior school, which is clearly the primary driver 00:31:04.309 --> 00:31:06.450 for those transactions, those changes in our 00:31:06.450 --> 00:31:08.690 sector. And actually, what you wanted, what I 00:31:08.690 --> 00:31:10.029 would want as a parent, what anybody I think 00:31:10.029 --> 00:31:12.309 would want as a parent is the right next step 00:31:12.309 --> 00:31:15.470 for their child. And having a school which is 00:31:15.470 --> 00:31:17.650 independent, like the Dragon, that can send to 00:31:17.650 --> 00:31:19.470 any number of different schools with a totally 00:31:19.470 --> 00:31:22.289 blank canvas and just take into account the individual 00:31:22.289 --> 00:31:24.529 child rather than any considerations of pathway 00:31:24.529 --> 00:31:27.190 and process and finance, that's absolutely to 00:31:27.190 --> 00:31:30.069 the good. So I think that's a great benefit of 00:31:30.069 --> 00:31:31.950 the independence of a school like the Dragon, 00:31:31.990 --> 00:31:33.789 giving that range of options for parents without 00:31:33.789 --> 00:31:36.650 any sense of obligation or expectation that might 00:31:36.650 --> 00:31:38.930 follow. Yeah, that's a very good point, isn't 00:31:38.930 --> 00:31:40.769 it? I mean, I think that one of the wonders for 00:31:40.769 --> 00:31:43.089 me when I moved from the senior sector to prep 00:31:43.089 --> 00:31:46.009 was that extension of childhood. I really feel 00:31:46.009 --> 00:31:48.230 that the children, you know, in those upper years, 00:31:48.250 --> 00:31:50.750 they still play. And I still feel they're in 00:31:50.750 --> 00:31:53.470 that wonderful sort of little bubble that they're 00:31:53.470 --> 00:31:55.670 not sort of rubbing shoulders with 18 -year -olds. 00:31:55.809 --> 00:31:57.730 And I think we see that, don't we, MK, in the 00:31:57.730 --> 00:31:58.990 way in which they interact with each other. Absolutely. 00:31:58.990 --> 00:32:02.029 I think you get that lovely balance of them being 00:32:02.029 --> 00:32:04.849 able to play and charge around and jostle together. 00:32:05.289 --> 00:32:08.470 And then suddenly... be heading across the fields 00:32:08.470 --> 00:32:11.549 to go and support a year five class with their 00:32:11.549 --> 00:32:13.789 drama. So I've seen it play out very recently 00:32:13.789 --> 00:32:16.890 with our middle school production and our year 00:32:16.890 --> 00:32:18.529 seven and eight. So middle school is year five 00:32:18.529 --> 00:32:20.490 and six, year seven and eight, particularly year 00:32:20.490 --> 00:32:23.029 eight are supporting in the role of directing 00:32:23.029 --> 00:32:27.150 and with makeup and costume and all those things 00:32:27.150 --> 00:32:29.849 they wouldn't really get. if they were 11 to 00:32:29.849 --> 00:32:34.009 13 in a school that went to 18. So they've got 00:32:34.009 --> 00:32:35.710 this lovely balance and be able to completely 00:32:35.710 --> 00:32:40.690 relax and be children without navigating phones. 00:32:42.160 --> 00:32:44.019 You know, these schools are often screen free, 00:32:44.140 --> 00:32:48.440 but also have that huge responsibility of nurturing 00:32:48.440 --> 00:32:50.779 and caring for younger children and be role models. 00:32:50.880 --> 00:32:52.940 The children, you know, say we get to be role 00:32:52.940 --> 00:32:55.299 models. You know, we get some more responsibility. 00:32:55.859 --> 00:32:58.279 They talk about the ambassador role, the idea 00:32:58.279 --> 00:33:01.460 of serving and understanding who they want to 00:33:01.460 --> 00:33:04.589 be as a character. We talk a lot about character, 00:33:04.769 --> 00:33:07.349 conduct, responsibility and service. And I think 00:33:07.349 --> 00:33:11.230 that's really key to them realising life is not 00:33:11.230 --> 00:33:13.910 always easy, but how am I going to navigate it? 00:33:14.230 --> 00:33:16.190 Yeah, and that's an amazing foundation to go 00:33:16.190 --> 00:33:17.849 to a school when you suddenly introduce your 00:33:17.849 --> 00:33:19.769 season and then you're off and running as well. 00:33:19.769 --> 00:33:23.910 I think that not only do they stay younger for 00:33:23.910 --> 00:33:26.269 longer, and I'm sure that is the case. I just, 00:33:26.349 --> 00:33:29.650 you know, we've all seen it and it makes sense. 00:33:31.289 --> 00:33:34.410 But also I think as a parent, a lot of parents 00:33:34.410 --> 00:33:38.950 are surprised by how big and anonymous senior 00:33:38.950 --> 00:33:42.009 schools feel. And that actually sending your 00:33:42.009 --> 00:33:45.470 little year seven off on the school bus to a 00:33:45.470 --> 00:33:47.109 school which is probably much further away than 00:33:47.109 --> 00:33:50.650 your prep school was. to into a community that 00:33:50.650 --> 00:33:53.289 you don't know. And actually a lot of those parents 00:33:53.289 --> 00:33:55.509 you'll never meet. There's no WhatsApp group, 00:33:55.529 --> 00:33:57.529 obviously for some that can be a blessing, but 00:33:57.529 --> 00:34:00.230 you know, there isn't that same tightness in 00:34:00.230 --> 00:34:02.470 terms of the parental support and not that same 00:34:02.470 --> 00:34:06.269 almost sort of neighborly community that I think 00:34:06.269 --> 00:34:09.469 you get around your prep school. And as a parent, 00:34:09.550 --> 00:34:14.369 I want to keep my children in that safe bubble 00:34:14.369 --> 00:34:17.869 cocoon for as long as I possibly can. And I think 00:34:17.869 --> 00:34:21.050 that Therefore, it's not just the sophistication 00:34:21.050 --> 00:34:24.550 and the maturity in school, but also the sense 00:34:24.550 --> 00:34:28.949 of the community around the school and the youngness 00:34:28.949 --> 00:34:32.750 of that. And, you know, Sports Day and the Christmas 00:34:32.750 --> 00:34:35.849 Fair and all the plays and the musicals and the 00:34:35.849 --> 00:34:40.489 enthusiasm with which these 13 -year -olds are 00:34:40.489 --> 00:34:43.769 still embracing those and parents coming along 00:34:43.769 --> 00:34:47.559 to support in a way that I think you lose. very 00:34:47.559 --> 00:34:51.840 quickly at a big, you know, a big senior school. 00:34:51.900 --> 00:34:53.420 I think that's a really interesting point because 00:34:53.420 --> 00:34:57.199 it's also that collegiality with parents that 00:34:57.199 --> 00:34:58.940 you're all going through that early pubescence 00:34:58.940 --> 00:35:00.940 together. So, you know, are we going to let them 00:35:00.940 --> 00:35:03.219 go into town on their own? And actually, you 00:35:03.219 --> 00:35:04.820 know, those other parents, you know, those other 00:35:04.820 --> 00:35:06.360 families, and you can have those conversations 00:35:06.360 --> 00:35:08.639 because you've been together, you know, through 00:35:08.639 --> 00:35:12.059 that period. Exactly. You know who's hosting 00:35:12.059 --> 00:35:14.059 the sleepover and you can pick up the phone and 00:35:14.059 --> 00:35:15.719 call the mum and say, are you really going to 00:35:15.719 --> 00:35:18.130 be there? And yeah, it just all feels younger 00:35:18.130 --> 00:35:21.909 and safer. And supported. And certainly we would 00:35:21.909 --> 00:35:24.829 think with our parents that we have those, you 00:35:24.829 --> 00:35:26.949 know, real partnership with them at that stage 00:35:26.949 --> 00:35:28.849 to support. Yeah, I mean, I think you see it 00:35:28.849 --> 00:35:30.630 at the school gate, you know, parents coming 00:35:30.630 --> 00:35:32.650 in and waiting. Often a member of staff will 00:35:32.650 --> 00:35:35.010 walk past and a parent will catch them or the 00:35:35.010 --> 00:35:36.429 member of staff will catch the parent and there's 00:35:36.429 --> 00:35:40.690 that conversation about their child. I think 00:35:40.690 --> 00:35:43.449 that part of the independence of a senior school 00:35:43.449 --> 00:35:46.510 and children taking more responsibility of their 00:35:46.510 --> 00:35:50.050 own time is that there is a bit more distance. 00:35:50.130 --> 00:35:53.010 And that can be super healthy for a lot of children 00:35:53.010 --> 00:35:56.409 in year nine. They need it and, you know, needs 00:35:56.409 --> 00:35:58.869 to be that separation. But I do think having 00:35:58.869 --> 00:36:02.849 it longer in the prep to 13 is really beneficial. 00:36:03.559 --> 00:36:05.739 for parents. We need support as parents. You 00:36:05.739 --> 00:36:07.420 know, it's a nerve -wracking journey. I think 00:36:07.420 --> 00:36:09.139 some of those same points go to the benefits 00:36:09.139 --> 00:36:11.820 of boarding at 13 plus. 13 is a much more natural 00:36:11.820 --> 00:36:13.539 age in which to start in a boarding environment, 00:36:13.659 --> 00:36:15.340 to go back to where we started with the traditional 00:36:15.340 --> 00:36:18.599 model. But actually, the anonymity of a big day 00:36:18.599 --> 00:36:21.119 school is definitely a consideration. You don't 00:36:21.119 --> 00:36:22.599 get that in a boarding house where everybody 00:36:22.599 --> 00:36:24.260 knows everybody else. And that's true for parents 00:36:24.260 --> 00:36:27.599 and for pupils. And there's a quality of relationship 00:36:27.599 --> 00:36:29.340 between the people running the boarding houses 00:36:29.340 --> 00:36:30.820 and the parents who are entrusting their children 00:36:30.820 --> 00:36:33.139 to their care. That's a very personal relationship. 00:36:33.460 --> 00:36:36.599 And that, I think, gets around the issue of anonymity 00:36:36.599 --> 00:36:38.539 at a bigger senior school scale. And then to 00:36:38.539 --> 00:36:40.920 go back to the point about children being younger 00:36:40.920 --> 00:36:43.679 for longer, that's 100 % true. So I'll give you 00:36:43.679 --> 00:36:46.280 an example from the Shell year nine at Teddy's 00:36:46.280 --> 00:36:49.559 first term, girls hockey. And they traveled away 00:36:49.559 --> 00:36:52.920 to an 11 plus school to play a fixture. They 00:36:52.920 --> 00:36:55.539 arrived early and they got off the bus. And the 00:36:55.539 --> 00:36:56.619 first thing they did was go to the playground. 00:36:57.019 --> 00:36:59.460 And they were in their first term at senior school. 00:36:59.739 --> 00:37:02.320 And if they'd been in an 11 plus school, That 00:37:02.320 --> 00:37:04.440 would never have happened. But they had preserved 00:37:04.440 --> 00:37:06.619 their childhood through seven and eight, most 00:37:06.619 --> 00:37:09.340 of them, in a conventional prep environment. 00:37:09.400 --> 00:37:12.000 That's where our children come from. And they 00:37:12.000 --> 00:37:14.500 were children having a really good experience. 00:37:14.679 --> 00:37:16.860 And then they were serious in the hockey game. 00:37:16.980 --> 00:37:19.239 And that's a nice balance in year nine that I 00:37:19.239 --> 00:37:21.539 think you lose if you make that point of transition 00:37:21.539 --> 00:37:24.039 too early at 11 plus. Yeah. And you see it. I 00:37:24.039 --> 00:37:27.199 mean, the children, even at the Dragon. You've 00:37:27.199 --> 00:37:29.059 got the e -block play at the year four playground. 00:37:29.340 --> 00:37:31.579 And often the year eights are looking in envy 00:37:31.579 --> 00:37:35.099 at this play. And if they get any opportunity, 00:37:35.300 --> 00:37:37.300 they'll be in there and just scrambling around. 00:37:37.480 --> 00:37:40.400 And it is lovely to watch. I think also smartphones, 00:37:40.599 --> 00:37:44.719 and we'll see how these new government measures 00:37:44.719 --> 00:37:46.800 play out over the next few years in terms of 00:37:46.800 --> 00:37:49.980 the 16, the age limit for social media. But I 00:37:49.980 --> 00:37:54.059 think... smart but if if the natural time to 00:37:54.059 --> 00:37:56.380 give your child a smartphone or a phone at all 00:37:56.380 --> 00:37:58.239 is when they go to senior school because they're 00:37:58.239 --> 00:37:59.780 likely to be doing that journey independently 00:37:59.780 --> 00:38:05.900 and it feels like a shift then send them to senior 00:38:05.900 --> 00:38:08.300 school a couple years later and dodge that conversation 00:38:08.300 --> 00:38:10.460 for a couple of extra years and i don't you know 00:38:10.460 --> 00:38:13.320 maybe i'm naive perhaps as we move through B 00:38:13.320 --> 00:38:16.159 block and A block as parents, then maybe they 00:38:16.159 --> 00:38:17.780 suddenly all will have smartphones, I don't know. 00:38:17.860 --> 00:38:20.840 But certainly I feel with my oldest in C block 00:38:20.840 --> 00:38:23.440 in year six. I feel, I mean, she hasn't even 00:38:23.440 --> 00:38:26.900 mentioned them yet, touch wood. And I feel like 00:38:26.900 --> 00:38:28.820 that conversation is going to be pushed back 00:38:28.820 --> 00:38:30.880 by virtue of being in a younger environment. 00:38:30.880 --> 00:38:32.199 I think that's absolutely right. And you have 00:38:32.199 --> 00:38:34.059 got, you know, the role models are the 13 year 00:38:34.059 --> 00:38:35.539 olds for the younger ones and they don't see 00:38:35.539 --> 00:38:37.860 them at all with a phone. That's not necessarily 00:38:37.860 --> 00:38:40.539 the case in a senior school. I think also the 00:38:40.539 --> 00:38:43.159 expectation in a prep school as a parent is that 00:38:43.159 --> 00:38:46.599 you will be involved. And so I think in those 00:38:46.599 --> 00:38:49.760 year seven and eight years, you don't hesitate 00:38:49.760 --> 00:38:52.260 to reach out to the school or to chat to another 00:38:52.260 --> 00:38:54.719 parent. Whereas certainly having had boys go 00:38:54.719 --> 00:38:57.039 on to senior school, there's an element where 00:38:57.039 --> 00:38:59.280 you're like, OK, well, now I may be the school 00:38:59.280 --> 00:39:01.800 needs to manage this. And there's more of a reticence 00:39:01.800 --> 00:39:04.440 to get involved, which might be wrong, but that's 00:39:04.440 --> 00:39:06.380 just the feeling. And so it is lovely to have 00:39:06.380 --> 00:39:09.079 that connection through to 13. And then they're 00:39:09.079 --> 00:39:11.019 that little bit older and a little bit more ready. 00:39:11.940 --> 00:39:13.599 Well, there is an argument that says the phone 00:39:13.599 --> 00:39:15.639 shouldn't be part of the 13 plus experience either. 00:39:15.699 --> 00:39:18.719 So that's very much where we are at St. Edward's. 00:39:18.860 --> 00:39:23.280 So get back to that hockey fixture story. The 00:39:23.280 --> 00:39:25.920 bus rolled out of the school to take the children 00:39:25.920 --> 00:39:28.619 to the game. Shortly after, we banned phones, 00:39:28.840 --> 00:39:30.380 mobile phones during the school week, Sunday 00:39:30.380 --> 00:39:32.860 night till Saturday lunchtime for all pupils 00:39:32.860 --> 00:39:35.380 in year nine. I'll come back to that rule in 00:39:35.380 --> 00:39:37.719 a minute. But before we made that change, the 00:39:37.719 --> 00:39:39.619 buses were silent. Everybody was on a screen. 00:39:39.780 --> 00:39:41.519 And after we made that change, the buses were 00:39:41.519 --> 00:39:43.940 noisy, they were lively, they were fun. And that 00:39:43.940 --> 00:39:46.639 was, again, they followed from the policy, but 00:39:46.639 --> 00:39:48.360 it followed from young children having a good 00:39:48.360 --> 00:39:51.039 time together on their way to a fixture. And 00:39:51.039 --> 00:39:53.639 then the... to the point about the smartphone 00:39:53.639 --> 00:39:56.199 ban, the social media ban in Australia. I mean, 00:39:56.219 --> 00:39:58.039 all the evidence is that about 60 % of children 00:39:58.039 --> 00:39:59.739 are still using social media in Australia. So 00:39:59.739 --> 00:40:01.619 the answer isn't to address the software. The 00:40:01.619 --> 00:40:04.139 answer is to take away the hardware. That's, 00:40:04.139 --> 00:40:05.760 I think, the only effective way of doing it. 00:40:05.840 --> 00:40:07.219 And it goes again to one of the great benefits 00:40:07.219 --> 00:40:09.519 of boarding at 13 plus, that it's a controlled 00:40:09.519 --> 00:40:12.920 environment. And children in our school, year 00:40:12.920 --> 00:40:15.219 nine, year 10, and in year 11 from September, 00:40:15.340 --> 00:40:18.099 won't have their phones at all from Sunday evening 00:40:18.099 --> 00:40:20.300 until Saturday lunchtime. And then only for certain 00:40:20.300 --> 00:40:22.230 periods of the weekend. And even in the sixth 00:40:22.230 --> 00:40:23.909 form, they won't have their phones in our school 00:40:23.909 --> 00:40:27.590 from bedtime until the end of lessons the following 00:40:27.590 --> 00:40:30.210 day or during academic time, which is protected 00:40:30.210 --> 00:40:32.110 in the evening for prep. So their access to their 00:40:32.110 --> 00:40:33.369 phones, even in the sixth form, will be very 00:40:33.369 --> 00:40:35.190 constrained. And what's interesting about that 00:40:35.190 --> 00:40:37.090 is that... It's led to a massive increase in 00:40:37.090 --> 00:40:38.849 the children's happiness. Their reported happiness 00:40:38.849 --> 00:40:42.090 is 20, 30 points higher than it was just five 00:40:42.090 --> 00:40:43.869 years ago before those changes came in. And their 00:40:43.869 --> 00:40:45.429 experience of school is much richer as a result. 00:40:45.949 --> 00:40:48.949 So I think that gradation of access to technology 00:40:48.949 --> 00:40:50.650 that starts in seven and eight in a prep school 00:40:50.650 --> 00:40:52.710 environment like this and then continues maybe 00:40:52.710 --> 00:40:54.630 in a boarding environment at 13 plus is absolutely. 00:40:55.070 --> 00:40:56.730 absolutely right for the children. And I think 00:40:56.730 --> 00:40:58.269 there we might stop because I think that's a 00:40:58.269 --> 00:41:00.550 whole other conversation, isn't it? Absolutely. 00:41:00.829 --> 00:41:04.369 Thank you so much for being here and all your 00:41:04.369 --> 00:41:06.590 wisdom. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank 00:41:06.590 --> 00:41:11.190 you. Thank you for listening to today's dilemma. 00:41:11.769 --> 00:41:13.909 If you'd like to hear more about what I get up 00:41:13.909 --> 00:41:17.070 to, please follow me on Instagram at Head & Heels. 00:41:17.130 --> 00:41:18.889 Or if you want to learn more about the Dragon 00:41:18.889 --> 00:41:22.469 School, our Instagram account is Dragonschooloxford. 00:41:23.119 --> 00:41:25.139 And if you've got any ideas or dilemmas you'd 00:41:25.139 --> 00:41:28.460 like us to discuss, please do email us at podcast 00:41:28.460 --> 00:41:32.679 at dragonschool .org. So until next time.